OrthodoxChristianity.net
September 23, 2014, 12:26:16 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Catholic Definition of Ecumenical Councils  (Read 449 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Luckster
Double Dipper
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOA
Posts: 140



« on: April 08, 2013, 08:09:39 PM »

Link

Quote
The Emperor convoked each ecumenical council, declaring its time, place, and purpose, and invited all the bishops of the Empire. After the partition of the Empire and the barbarian invasions, the Emperor only had jurisdiction over the East. In order for the bishops of the West to be represented, the Emperor would send an invitation to the Pope, who had patriarchal authority over all Latin bishops, and could act on their behalf. If a doctrine of the faith was in dispute, the Pope would prepare a definition of the faith, either on his own initiative or in consultation with the Latin bishops. Ecumenical councils took place in or near the imperial city of Constantinople, so it was generally feasible only for the bishops of that patriarchate to attend. The patriarchs of Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem attended in person or by proxy. The Pope never attended in person, but sent his legates with specific instructions on doctrinal matters.

Once an ecumenical council was convened, the papal legates presided over the synod on behalf of the Pope. The issues at hand were discussed among the bishops, and the pope's definition of faith was read to the assembly. The council would then give its assent to the definition, and use it as a basis for constructing its dogmatic constitutions, which define the faith, determine which persons or writings have fallen into heresy, and prescribe ecclesiastical penalties. The bishops could also issue disciplinary canons. At the close of a general council, the constitutions and canons were submitted to the Emperor so he could promulgate them throughout the Empire, while storing the original documents in the imperial archive. In this way the Emperor acts as guardian of the faith. Since the Pope did not attend in person, and he only authorized his legates to proclaim his definition of the faith, any further acts of the council needed papal ratification. After the council closed, the constitutions and canons were sent to the Pope for his signature. Only with papal approval could the acts be binding in the West, thereby giving the council true ecumenical status. The Pope sometimes elected to exclude or qualify some of the constitutions or canons in his ratification. Any decree or canon excluded by the Pope would not have ecumenical authority, but would at most be binding in the ecclesial jurisdictions of the East.

How accurate is this definition?
Logged
jmbejdl
Count-Palatine James the Spurious of Giggleswick on the Naze
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Church of Romania
Posts: 1,480


Great Martyr St. John the New of Suceava


« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2013, 03:20:24 AM »

Link

Quote
The Emperor convoked each ecumenical council, declaring its time, place, and purpose, and invited all the bishops of the Empire. After the partition of the Empire and the barbarian invasions, the Emperor only had jurisdiction over the East. In order for the bishops of the West to be represented, the Emperor would send an invitation to the Pope, who had patriarchal authority over all Latin bishops, and could act on their behalf. If a doctrine of the faith was in dispute, the Pope would prepare a definition of the faith, either on his own initiative or in consultation with the Latin bishops. Ecumenical councils took place in or near the imperial city of Constantinople, so it was generally feasible only for the bishops of that patriarchate to attend. The patriarchs of Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem attended in person or by proxy. The Pope never attended in person, but sent his legates with specific instructions on doctrinal matters.

Once an ecumenical council was convened, the papal legates presided over the synod on behalf of the Pope. The issues at hand were discussed among the bishops, and the pope's definition of faith was read to the assembly. The council would then give its assent to the definition, and use it as a basis for constructing its dogmatic constitutions, which define the faith, determine which persons or writings have fallen into heresy, and prescribe ecclesiastical penalties. The bishops could also issue disciplinary canons. At the close of a general council, the constitutions and canons were submitted to the Emperor so he could promulgate them throughout the Empire, while storing the original documents in the imperial archive. In this way the Emperor acts as guardian of the faith. Since the Pope did not attend in person, and he only authorized his legates to proclaim his definition of the faith, any further acts of the council needed papal ratification. After the council closed, the constitutions and canons were sent to the Pope for his signature. Only with papal approval could the acts be binding in the West, thereby giving the council true ecumenical status. The Pope sometimes elected to exclude or qualify some of the constitutions or canons in his ratification. Any decree or canon excluded by the Pope would not have ecumenical authority, but would at most be binding in the ecclesial jurisdictions of the East.

How accurate is this definition?

Accurate in what sense? It accurately describes what I seen Roman Catholics claim about the Ecumenical Councils, if that's what you mean. Unfortunately it's rather less accurate when compared to what actually happened. The idea that the Papal legates presided or that anyone outside Rome believed the Pope had to ratify each decree and canon to give them Ecumenical status, for instance, is demonstrably not true.

James
Logged

We owe greater gratitude to those who humble us, wrong us, and douse us with venom, than to those who nurse us with honour and sweet words, or feed us with tasty food and confections, for bile is the best medicine for our soul. - Elder Paisios of Mount Athos
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,670



« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2013, 05:39:19 AM »

Link

Quote
The Emperor convoked each ecumenical council, declaring its time, place, and purpose, and invited all the bishops of the Empire. After the partition of the Empire and the barbarian invasions, the Emperor only had jurisdiction over the East. In order for the bishops of the West to be represented, the Emperor would send an invitation to the Pope, who had patriarchal authority over all Latin bishops, and could act on their behalf. If a doctrine of the faith was in dispute, the Pope would prepare a definition of the faith, either on his own initiative or in consultation with the Latin bishops. Ecumenical councils took place in or near the imperial city of Constantinople, so it was generally feasible only for the bishops of that patriarchate to attend. The patriarchs of Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem attended in person or by proxy. The Pope never attended in person, but sent his legates with specific instructions on doctrinal matters.

Once an ecumenical council was convened, the papal legates presided over the synod on behalf of the Pope. The issues at hand were discussed among the bishops, and the pope's definition of faith was read to the assembly. The council would then give its assent to the definition, and use it as a basis for constructing its dogmatic constitutions, which define the faith, determine which persons or writings have fallen into heresy, and prescribe ecclesiastical penalties. The bishops could also issue disciplinary canons. At the close of a general council, the constitutions and canons were submitted to the Emperor so he could promulgate them throughout the Empire, while storing the original documents in the imperial archive. In this way the Emperor acts as guardian of the faith. Since the Pope did not attend in person, and he only authorized his legates to proclaim his definition of the faith, any further acts of the council needed papal ratification. After the council closed, the constitutions and canons were sent to the Pope for his signature. Only with papal approval could the acts be binding in the West, thereby giving the council true ecumenical status. The Pope sometimes elected to exclude or qualify some of the constitutions or canons in his ratification. Any decree or canon excluded by the Pope would not have ecumenical authority, but would at most be binding in the ecclesial jurisdictions of the East.

How accurate is this definition?
Not very.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Napoletani
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Romanian Orthodox
Posts: 131



« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2013, 09:57:47 AM »

Link

Quote
The Emperor convoked each ecumenical council, declaring its time, place, and purpose, and invited all the bishops of the Empire. After the partition of the Empire and the barbarian invasions, the Emperor only had jurisdiction over the East. In order for the bishops of the West to be represented, the Emperor would send an invitation to the Pope, who had patriarchal authority over all Latin bishops, and could act on their behalf. If a doctrine of the faith was in dispute, the Pope would prepare a definition of the faith, either on his own initiative or in consultation with the Latin bishops. Ecumenical councils took place in or near the imperial city of Constantinople, so it was generally feasible only for the bishops of that patriarchate to attend. The patriarchs of Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem attended in person or by proxy. The Pope never attended in person, but sent his legates with specific instructions on doctrinal matters.

Once an ecumenical council was convened, the papal legates presided over the synod on behalf of the Pope. The issues at hand were discussed among the bishops, and the pope's definition of faith was read to the assembly. The council would then give its assent to the definition, and use it as a basis for constructing its dogmatic constitutions, which define the faith, determine which persons or writings have fallen into heresy, and prescribe ecclesiastical penalties. The bishops could also issue disciplinary canons. At the close of a general council, the constitutions and canons were submitted to the Emperor so he could promulgate them throughout the Empire, while storing the original documents in the imperial archive. In this way the Emperor acts as guardian of the faith. Since the Pope did not attend in person, and he only authorized his legates to proclaim his definition of the faith, any further acts of the council needed papal ratification. After the council closed, the constitutions and canons were sent to the Pope for his signature. Only with papal approval could the acts be binding in the West, thereby giving the council true ecumenical status. The Pope sometimes elected to exclude or qualify some of the constitutions or canons in his ratification. Any decree or canon excluded by the Pope would not have ecumenical authority, but would at most be binding in the ecclesial jurisdictions of the East.

How accurate is this definition?

Originally it was only a council of the Orient; the arguments of Baronius (ad an. 381, nos. 19, 20) to prove that it was called by Pope Damasus are invalid (Hefele-Leclercq, Hist. des Conciles, Paris, 1908, II, 4). It was attended by 150 Catholic and 36 heretical (Semi-Arian, Macedonian) bishops, and was presided over by Meletius of Antioch; after his death, by the successive Patriarchs of Constantinople, St. Gregory Nazianzen and Nectarius.

In 379 Meletius held a council of 150 bishops in order to assure the triumph of orthodoxy in the East, and published a profession of faith which was to meet the approval of the Council of Constantinople (382). The end of the schism was near at hand. Since the two factions which divided the Antiochene Church were orthodox there remained but to unite them actually, a difficult move, but easy when the death of either bishop made it possible for the survivor to exercise full authority without hurting pride or discipline. This solution Meletius recognized as early as 381, but his friendly and peace- making proposals were rejected by Paulinus who refused to come to any agreement or settlement.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10161b.htm

So, papal legates running a council that is presided by a holy Bishop not even in communion with Rome? Don't think so.
Logged

Romania,striga tare sa te aud
Romania,noi suntem Leii din Sud
Si din mormant voi striga,Stiinta e echipa mea
De te nasti aici si cresti,ramai Anti'Bucuresti
montalban
Now in colour
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek
Posts: 1,813



« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2013, 01:22:47 AM »

Link

Quote
The Emperor convoked each ecumenical council, declaring its time, place, and purpose, and invited all the bishops of the Empire. After the partition of the Empire and the barbarian invasions, the Emperor only had jurisdiction over the East. In order for the bishops of the West to be represented, the Emperor would send an invitation to the Pope, who had patriarchal authority over all Latin bishops, and could act on their behalf. If a doctrine of the faith was in dispute, the Pope would prepare a definition of the faith, either on his own initiative or in consultation with the Latin bishops. Ecumenical councils took place in or near the imperial city of Constantinople, so it was generally feasible only for the bishops of that patriarchate to attend. The patriarchs of Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem attended in person or by proxy. The Pope never attended in person, but sent his legates with specific instructions on doctrinal matters.

Once an ecumenical council was convened, the papal legates presided over the synod on behalf of the Pope. The issues at hand were discussed among the bishops, and the pope's definition of faith was read to the assembly. The council would then give its assent to the definition, and use it as a basis for constructing its dogmatic constitutions, which define the faith, determine which persons or writings have fallen into heresy, and prescribe ecclesiastical penalties. The bishops could also issue disciplinary canons. At the close of a general council, the constitutions and canons were submitted to the Emperor so he could promulgate them throughout the Empire, while storing the original documents in the imperial archive. In this way the Emperor acts as guardian of the faith. Since the Pope did not attend in person, and he only authorized his legates to proclaim his definition of the faith, any further acts of the council needed papal ratification. After the council closed, the constitutions and canons were sent to the Pope for his signature. Only with papal approval could the acts be binding in the West, thereby giving the council true ecumenical status. The Pope sometimes elected to exclude or qualify some of the constitutions or canons in his ratification. Any decree or canon excluded by the Pope would not have ecumenical authority, but would at most be binding in the ecclesial jurisdictions of the East.

How accurate is this definition?


Each council had in a sense two presiding officers. The emperor, or a representative of the emperor, and a leading church officer.

The councils had both a legal and religious background.
Logged

Fàilte dhut a Mhoire,
tha thu lan de na gràsan;
Tha an Tighearna maille riut.
Luckster
Double Dipper
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOA
Posts: 140



« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2013, 11:30:27 AM »

Accurate in what sense? It accurately describes what I seen Roman Catholics claim about the Ecumenical Councils, if that's what you mean. Unfortunately it's rather less accurate when compared to what actually happened. The idea that the Papal legates presided or that anyone outside Rome believed the Pope had to ratify each decree and canon to give them Ecumenical status, for instance, is demonstrably not true.

James
Okay, thanks.

Originally it was only a council of the Orient; the arguments of Baronius (ad an. 381, nos. 19, 20) to prove that it was called by Pope Damasus are invalid (Hefele-Leclercq, Hist. des Conciles, Paris, 1908, II, 4). It was attended by 150 Catholic and 36 heretical (Semi-Arian, Macedonian) bishops, and was presided over by Meletius of Antioch; after his death, by the successive Patriarchs of Constantinople, St. Gregory Nazianzen and Nectarius.

In 379 Meletius held a council of 150 bishops in order to assure the triumph of orthodoxy in the East, and published a profession of faith which was to meet the approval of the Council of Constantinople (382). The end of the schism was near at hand. Since the two factions which divided the Antiochene Church were orthodox there remained but to unite them actually, a difficult move, but easy when the death of either bishop made it possible for the survivor to exercise full authority without hurting pride or discipline. This solution Meletius recognized as early as 381, but his friendly and peace- making proposals were rejected by Paulinus who refused to come to any agreement or settlement.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10161b.htm

So, papal legates running a council that is presided by a holy Bishop not even in communion with Rome? Don't think so.
Forgive me, but I missing something here. So, Meletius was an Orthodox bishop, not in communion with Rome?
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 11:31:02 AM by Luckster » Logged
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,670



« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2013, 12:12:09 PM »

Accurate in what sense? It accurately describes what I seen Roman Catholics claim about the Ecumenical Councils, if that's what you mean. Unfortunately it's rather less accurate when compared to what actually happened. The idea that the Papal legates presided or that anyone outside Rome believed the Pope had to ratify each decree and canon to give them Ecumenical status, for instance, is demonstrably not true.

James
Okay, thanks.

Originally it was only a council of the Orient; the arguments of Baronius (ad an. 381, nos. 19, 20) to prove that it was called by Pope Damasus are invalid (Hefele-Leclercq, Hist. des Conciles, Paris, 1908, II, 4). It was attended by 150 Catholic and 36 heretical (Semi-Arian, Macedonian) bishops, and was presided over by Meletius of Antioch; after his death, by the successive Patriarchs of Constantinople, St. Gregory Nazianzen and Nectarius.

In 379 Meletius held a council of 150 bishops in order to assure the triumph of orthodoxy in the East, and published a profession of faith which was to meet the approval of the Council of Constantinople (382). The end of the schism was near at hand. Since the two factions which divided the Antiochene Church were orthodox there remained but to unite them actually, a difficult move, but easy when the death of either bishop made it possible for the survivor to exercise full authority without hurting pride or discipline. This solution Meletius recognized as early as 381, but his friendly and peace- making proposals were rejected by Paulinus who refused to come to any agreement or settlement.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10161b.htm

So, papal legates running a council that is presided by a holy Bishop not even in communion with Rome? Don't think so.
Forgive me, but I missing something here. So, Meletius was an Orthodox bishop, not in communion with Rome?
Yes, Old Rome backed his rival Paulinus, who ordained St. Jerome. When St. Meletius was called to the Lord at the Council, Old Rome insisted that Paulinus be recognized.  Instead, the Council consecrated St. Flavian as his successor.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 12:13:49 PM by ialmisry » Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Peter J
Formerly PJ
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Melkite
Posts: 6,123



« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2013, 07:38:17 PM »

Link

Quote
The Emperor convoked each ecumenical council, declaring its time, place, and purpose, and invited all the bishops of the Empire. After the partition of the Empire and the barbarian invasions, the Emperor only had jurisdiction over the East. In order for the bishops of the West to be represented, the Emperor would send an invitation to the Pope, who had patriarchal authority over all Latin bishops, and could act on their behalf. If a doctrine of the faith was in dispute, the Pope would prepare a definition of the faith, either on his own initiative or in consultation with the Latin bishops. Ecumenical councils took place in or near the imperial city of Constantinople, so it was generally feasible only for the bishops of that patriarchate to attend. The patriarchs of Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem attended in person or by proxy. The Pope never attended in person, but sent his legates with specific instructions on doctrinal matters.

Once an ecumenical council was convened, the papal legates presided over the synod on behalf of the Pope. The issues at hand were discussed among the bishops, and the pope's definition of faith was read to the assembly. The council would then give its assent to the definition, and use it as a basis for constructing its dogmatic constitutions, which define the faith, determine which persons or writings have fallen into heresy, and prescribe ecclesiastical penalties. The bishops could also issue disciplinary canons. At the close of a general council, the constitutions and canons were submitted to the Emperor so he could promulgate them throughout the Empire, while storing the original documents in the imperial archive. In this way the Emperor acts as guardian of the faith. Since the Pope did not attend in person, and he only authorized his legates to proclaim his definition of the faith, any further acts of the council needed papal ratification. After the council closed, the constitutions and canons were sent to the Pope for his signature. Only with papal approval could the acts be binding in the West, thereby giving the council true ecumenical status. The Pope sometimes elected to exclude or qualify some of the constitutions or canons in his ratification. Any decree or canon excluded by the Pope would not have ecumenical authority, but would at most be binding in the ecclesial jurisdictions of the East.

How accurate is this definition?

Articles written by individual Catholics are often more polemical than the more official documents issued by the Vatican. This ^^ is a good example.
Logged

- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)
Tags: ecumenical council  synod  Catholicism 
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.072 seconds with 35 queries.