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Author Topic: Christian Rulers and Adultery through the Ages  (Read 1372 times) Average Rating: 0
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Napoletani
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« Reply #45 on: April 17, 2013, 04:12:11 AM »

So many falsehood in  yeshuaisiam post, amazing.

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He was responsible for the deaths of so many people.   This is POST conversion to Christianity.
In 326 he executed his wife & son

Characteristic among these—to complete all the reports—is the case of the son of Crispos and Fausta, the second wife of Constantine.  In 316 he was celebrating the tenth anniversary of his ascent to the throne, in the palace.  He received the news that Crispos had been arrested and incarcerated in the prison of Polas in Istria—that’s where John Kapodistrias and his family hailed from, Istria.  Crispos was a serious and well-disposed young man with many leadership skills and charismas.  At seventeen he received a high ranking in the army and was actually the leader of the Navy of the Empire.  Don’t think this is impossible.  Guarne, son of Josephine, adopted by Napoleon, at sixteen went to conquer the Heptanese with the democratic French.  Here we see the hatred of Fausta.  Crispos was thought of more highly than her three sons.  She took it as his desire to ascend the throne.  And another thing, Saint Helen loved Crispos for his talents, he reminded her of her own son in his youth.  Then a satanic event takes place.  One month before Crispos’ death, Constantine the Great had made a law against adultery.  Not simply fornication, but adultery with a married woman.  The punishment was death.  With some false witnesses, Fausta accused Crispos, first for a conspiracy against Constantine, and second with an attack against her, his step-mother, with immoral aims.  Zosimos, the idolater historian - attention here - and John Zonaras in the twelfth century, accept that these accusations are baseless, and serious researchers accept that there is no proof to these accusations, only conjecture.   Constantine’s dilemma in this case was analogous to the great lawmaker of Hellenism.  In the seventh century, Zaleukos—“Zaleukos” means “thoroughly white” (meaning very clean, righteous); a contemporary of Hammurabi, who gave the first Hellenic code—is more ancient than Solon.  He had a law which said:  The accused and arrested for adultery is condemned to losing two eyes.  The first person arrested for adultery was Zaleukos’ son.  The king came along, like Constantine, to try him in court.  What should he do?  Should he blind his own son, whom the army wanted to succeed him as well as the people of the city?  Thus, Zaleukos wisely asked the participants in court as to how many eyes does the law require in this case as punishment?  They told him two.  He told them, there you go, one of my son’s eyes, and take one of mine.  He was blinded in one eye so that he wouldn’t take both from his son.  Constantine did not execute Crispos; he simply put him in jail.  The young man was put to death in an unknown way, and no command by Constantine was ever found that condemned him to death, as there should have been.  Historians tell us that the only person who could use the emperor’s bull was his wife Fausta, and this execution is attributed to her.  Helen returned from Rome and found out about Fausta’s conspiracy and revealed it to Constantine.  Constantine then ordered that Fausta be arrested.  Zosimos then tells us that Constantine ordered her death by drowning in her bath with hot water.  A few days ago I received an article where an enemy of Christianity repeats what Zosimos wrote, without any other sources, without any reference to this event.  This judgment of Constantine remains unproven.  Ieronymos disproves this myth of Zosimos.  A church historian (366 – 419 A.D.), an excellent Hellenist, he had lived near the fathers in the east, and especially St. John Chrysostom.  He belongs with the fathers, on the side of Orthodoxy.  Ieronymos lived these events, and he gives us the information that Fausta lived on, for three or four years after the death of Crispos.  How is it possible for the two events to be tied together?  Even the historian Gibbon, in his history, contests this type of death for Fausta.  Paparrigopoulos also disputes this theory.  The events surrounding the deaths of Crispos and Fausta are again impossible to prove.
http://www.oodegr.com/english/paganismos/sykofanties/kwnstantinos_ist_alithia1.htm

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In 332 & 334 he ran military campaigns where he was responsible for killing hundreds of thousands of Goths & Sarmatians.  This was mostly for imperialism reasons.

How could he do so post conversion if he was baptized on his death bed?

Your won wikipedia source says:

Soon after the Feast of Easter 337, Constantine fell seriously ill.[240] He left Constantinople for the hot baths near his mother's city of Helenopolis (Altinova), on the southern shores of the Gulf of İzmit. There, in a church his mother built in honor of Lucian the Apostle, he prayed, and there he realized that he was dying. Seeking purification, he became a catechumen, and attempted a return to Constantinople, making it only as far as a suburb of Nicomedia.[241] He summoned the bishops, and told them of his hope to be baptized in the River Jordan, where Christ was written to have been baptized.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_I#Sickness_and_death

So, since you said his military campaigns of 332 & 334 were post conversions, must we assume that 337 is before 332 and 334? You should read more before posting contradictory nonsense.

And of course, that goes for your 321 decree quote  Cheesy

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So that officially ended the Sabbath practicing Christians worship (for the most part).

Christians hold the Day of the Lord as being Sunday from tge begining.

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Anyway, I've read things in defense of Orthodox St. Constantine, but I am not convinced

I've read your critic of Constantine, and your knowledge of the dates, but i'm not convinced, i think i'll stick with the Church in thinking that 321, 332 and 334 are before 337.

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Would you trust Orthodox St. Constantine, or Clement of Rome more near your family?

When it comes to Faith, yes, since my family is only made up of unbeliever. When it comes to cooking mamaliga, i'll choose my mom  Tongue



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Kerdy
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« Reply #46 on: April 17, 2013, 04:21:28 AM »

Aren't you people judging those Christian rulers too harshly? On a contrary I would say it was some form of martyrdom, given that most men have hard times when dealing with "only" one woman.

I dont think it is too harsh or any type of judgement.  Christians with power and influence have a greater responsibility.  This is why big name pastors are shunned after being caught doing things they should not.  It should be no different for world leaders.  A Christian should behave as a Christian without excuse. 
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Kerdy
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« Reply #47 on: April 17, 2013, 05:02:31 AM »

Aren't you people judging those Christian rulers too harshly? On a contrary I would say it was some form of martyrdom, given that most men have hard times when dealing with "only" one woman.

I dont think it is too harsh or any type of judgement.  Christians with power and influence have a greater responsibility.  This is why big name pastors are shunned after being caught doing things they should not.  It should be no different for world leaders.  A Christian should behave as a Christian without excuse. 
To make a comparison, if a Christian leader could not conduct himself in a Christian way, would you listen to his advice any more than a mechanic who could not properly repair automobiles?

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DuxI
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« Reply #48 on: April 17, 2013, 07:59:20 AM »

Aren't you people judging those Christian rulers too harshly? On a contrary I would say it was some form of martyrdom, given that most men have hard times when dealing with "only" one woman.

I dont think it is too harsh or any type of judgement.  Christians with power and influence have a greater responsibility.  This is why big name pastors are shunned after being caught doing things they should not.  It should be no different for world leaders.  A Christian should behave as a Christian without excuse. 
To make a comparison, if a Christian leader could not conduct himself in a Christian way, would you listen to his advice any more than a mechanic who could not properly repair automobiles?


A Christian leader also must follow the law, right? If a Christian leader does not follow the law, will we say that he is a good Christian? Of course not!
Let us all remind ourselves what st. Apostle Paul said in Romans 13:4

For the one in authority is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God's servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.

So, with the fate of Crispus (for which Constantine was not guilty), and with that of Fausta (for which some sources suggest that st. Helena had the last word) are not in any way an example that Constantine acted against the Laws of God.
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