Author Topic: The Church & Marijuana  (Read 2923 times)

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Offline JamesR

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The Church & Marijuana
« on: April 04, 2013, 08:16:03 PM »
I know that we already have one thread about marijuana somewhere on this board, but this topic is a bit different. All legal aspects aside, is marijuana smoking acceptable to the Church? If it were not illegal, would the Church have a problem with people smoking it? I mean, we allow people to consume alcohol and smoke tobacco, so why not marijuana? Marijuana is the least harmful out of the bad habits, and unlike alcohol, will not cause you to become angry or violent. The only objection I could see against marijuana is that it is illegal, and the Bible tells us to respect the civil authorities, therefore we shouldn't smoke it. But what about marijuana in and of itself, legal aspect aside, what's wrong with it from the Church's standpoint?
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: The Church & Marijuana
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2013, 08:22:13 PM »
I imagine it would fall under the same general guidelines regarding alcohol.
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Offline mike

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Re: The Church & Marijuana
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2013, 08:22:50 PM »
There has recently been a thread in Faith Issues. Nothing reasonable came from it.

Offline Orthodox11

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Re: The Church & Marijuana
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2013, 08:30:50 PM »
The main difference between alcohol and marijuana is that the former is often drunk in moderation purely for the taste whereas marijuana is generally used as an intoxicant outside of a medical context. The use of alcohol as an intoxicant, or drunkenness at any rate, is frowned upon by the Church, so I would expect the same thing goes against the use of marijuana for things other than pain relief and whatnot.

Offline mike

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Re: The Church & Marijuana
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2013, 08:41:33 PM »
The use of alcohol as an intoxicant, or drunkenness at any rate, is frowned upon by the Church,

If you ignore the wedding in Cana...

Offline WPM

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Re: The Church & Marijuana
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2013, 09:08:07 PM »
To me, marijuana is a political non-issue. I don't really care if people smoke it or not.

Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: The Church & Marijuana
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2013, 10:23:08 PM »
It is kosher....

But I will tell you... That old commercial in the late 80's early 90's of the guys smoking in the upstairs attic saying "marijuana never hurt anybody".   They are in their 30's....

Suddenly the mom calls up the stairs... LOL.....
So true

The way I see it (not an Orthodox take), is God never created us to "smoke anything".  Nothing in his creation smokes either.  Christ did not smoke.

However, we do eat and drink.   Christ at Cana...   Drink is certainly different than smoking.
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Offline mike

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Re: The Church & Marijuana
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2013, 10:46:12 PM »
The way I see it (not an Orthodox take), is God never created us to "smoke anything".  Nothing in his creation smokes either.  Christ did not smoke.

Neither to fly, swim underwater, move with speed over 30 km/h, use electricity...

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: The Church & Marijuana
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2013, 11:23:31 PM »
is marijuana smoking acceptable to the Church?

America says yes  :)

Offline jah777

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Re: The Church & Marijuana
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2013, 12:52:31 AM »
I mean, we allow people to consume alcohol and smoke tobacco, so why not marijuana? Marijuana is the least harmful out of the bad habits, and unlike alcohol, will not cause you to become angry or violent.

Smoking tobacco is a sin, so why wouldn't smoking marijuana be?  Our Lord drank wine, but when did the Lord or any of the saints smoke anything or recommend the smoking of anything? 

The Church allows alcohol in moderation, but drunkenness is sinful and never permitted.  One can have a beer or glass of wine without feeling much different at all, and certainly without any impairments which would characterize "drunkenness".  With marijuana, a single puff or a single joint could easily get you "stoned" depending on the quality/kind. 

from The Life of St Parthenius of Chios
Quote
Nicodemus of the Holy Mountain called cigarettes “foul stinking grass,” and Saint Parthenius counseled the pilgrims not to smoke. Since it harms the body, which is “the temple of God,” he called cigarettes, and tobacco in general, “incense of the devil.” The Saint was attempting to convince people that smoking is not only ruinous and harmful to the body but also unfitting behavior for the faithful. This impropriety is especially disgraceful for a priest. When Saint Parthenius would meet a priest who smoked and tried to hide it, he would say, “I know what kind of incense you cense with! It is better to smell incense alone or cigarettes alone, because incense and cigarettes together do not make a pleasant odor!” What the Saint meant was that smoking is not suitable for the clergy and that if a clergyman smoked it would have been better for him to remain a layman.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2013, 12:58:33 AM by jah777 »

Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Re: The Church & Marijuana
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2013, 02:55:10 AM »
I think it would be a matter of Christian liberty. But I would urge great caution with it. Marijuana affects each person differently. For some people it merely relaxes them and helps them focus. For others it causes extreme anxiety and can even produce hallucinations. Of course, people also respond differently to alcohol too. However, most people will not be radically effected after one or two drinks of alcohol, whereas inhaling even one or two hits from powerful marijuana can drastically alter one's consciousness.

Now, I'd like to offer my own perspective about obeying the civil law in regard to such matters. My opinion is that if the law condemns that which God has called "good," then I don't think we are under any moral or Christian obligation to obey such a law. God created everything good, and thus all created things have a function and a purpose. So, for example, if it were illegal to eat fruit, then I would feel no inclination to obey such a law because that law would essentially be calling something good "evil." But this is only my opinion, and the Church may teach something different. But I basically think there are many reasons not to use marijuana, but obedience to the law is not one of them in my view.


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Offline LBK

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Re: The Church & Marijuana
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2013, 04:31:53 AM »
My opinion is that if the law condemns that which God has called "good," then I don't think we are under any moral or Christian obligation to obey such a law. God created everything good

God created a whole variety of plants and fungi which range in mind-altering effect from mild to deadly. Would you regard legal restrictions or prohibitions on the ingestion or otherwise consumption of these things outside of a "moral or Christian obligation to obey such a law"?
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Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Re: The Church & Marijuana
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2013, 04:58:42 AM »
My opinion is that if the law condemns that which God has called "good," then I don't think we are under any moral or Christian obligation to obey such a law. God created everything good

God created a whole variety of plants and fungi which range in mind-altering effect from mild to deadly. Would you regard legal restrictions or prohibitions on the ingestion or otherwise consumption of these things outside of a "moral or Christian obligation to obey such a law"?


I'm not sure. I tend to think that laws against plants are stupid.


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Offline LBK

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Re: The Church & Marijuana
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2013, 05:00:14 AM »
My opinion is that if the law condemns that which God has called "good," then I don't think we are under any moral or Christian obligation to obey such a law. God created everything good

God created a whole variety of plants and fungi which range in mind-altering effect from mild to deadly. Would you regard legal restrictions or prohibitions on the ingestion or otherwise consumption of these things outside of a "moral or Christian obligation to obey such a law"?


I'm not sure. I tend to think that laws against plants are stupid.


Selam

So you think plants are sacrosanct?  ??? ???
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Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Re: The Church & Marijuana
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2013, 05:49:41 AM »
My opinion is that if the law condemns that which God has called "good," then I don't think we are under any moral or Christian obligation to obey such a law. God created everything good

God created a whole variety of plants and fungi which range in mind-altering effect from mild to deadly. Would you regard legal restrictions or prohibitions on the ingestion or otherwise consumption of these things outside of a "moral or Christian obligation to obey such a law"?


I'm not sure. I tend to think that laws against plants are stupid.


Selam

So you think plants are sacrosanct?  ??? ???


I think that all of creation is inherently good, albeit affected by the fall.


Selam
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Offline LBK

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Re: The Church & Marijuana
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2013, 05:57:52 AM »
My opinion is that if the law condemns that which God has called "good," then I don't think we are under any moral or Christian obligation to obey such a law. God created everything good

God created a whole variety of plants and fungi which range in mind-altering effect from mild to deadly. Would you regard legal restrictions or prohibitions on the ingestion or otherwise consumption of these things outside of a "moral or Christian obligation to obey such a law"?


I'm not sure. I tend to think that laws against plants are stupid.


Selam

So you think plants are sacrosanct?  ??? ???


I think that all of creation is inherently good, albeit affected by the fall.


Selam

Still doesn't explain why these things are poisonous and/or mind-affecting, many with laws regulating or prohibiting their use. Are we not expected to treat our bodies like temples? You can't have it both ways, Gebre.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2013, 05:58:50 AM by LBK »
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Offline Alpo

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Re: The Church & Marijuana
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2013, 06:08:59 AM »
IMO sound policy would be something like this:  avoid use during fasts, do not use too strong variants and generally avoid daily or even weekly use, do not support otherwise criminal activity, do not lend it to the underaged  and do not use around children and you'll be fine.

Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Re: The Church & Marijuana
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2013, 06:14:25 AM »
My opinion is that if the law condemns that which God has called "good," then I don't think we are under any moral or Christian obligation to obey such a law. God created everything good

God created a whole variety of plants and fungi which range in mind-altering effect from mild to deadly. Would you regard legal restrictions or prohibitions on the ingestion or otherwise consumption of these things outside of a "moral or Christian obligation to obey such a law"?


I'm not sure. I tend to think that laws against plants are stupid.


Selam

So you think plants are sacrosanct?  ??? ???


I think that all of creation is inherently good, albeit affected by the fall.


Selam

Still doesn't explain why these things are poisonous and/or mind-affecting, many with laws regulating or prohibiting their use. Are we not expected to treat our bodies like temples? You can't have it both ways, Gebre.

To oppose the criminalization of these plants does not mean that I endorse their use. That's why I emphasized that marijuana use is not necessarily innocuous and can be quite dangerous for some people. We absolutely should treat our bodies as the temple of the Holy Spirit. But people poison themselves with food every day, and yet I wouldn't outlaw certain foods. Of course, some politicians are trying to do just that, but I don't think that's a good idea. I would not outlaw any plants, but I would also urge education about their positive and negative qualities so that people would use them safely and properly. If somebody needs marijuana for its medicinal properties but lives in a state where marijuana is illegal, I see nothing sinful about them breaking the law in order to use a plant that God created for a reason. Just my thoughts.


Selam
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Offline Ashman618

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Re: The Church & Marijuana
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2013, 06:49:47 AM »
The way I see it (not an Orthodox take), is God never created us to "smoke anything".  Nothing in his creation smokes either.  Christ did not smoke.

Neither to fly, swim underwater, move with speed over 30 km/h, use electricity...

Just eat the pot, don't smoke it

Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Re: The Church & Marijuana
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2013, 07:02:39 AM »


The way I see it (not an Orthodox take), is God never created us to "smoke anything".  Nothing in his creation smokes either.  Christ did not smoke.




 ;)



Selam

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Offline KBN1

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Re: The Church & Marijuana
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2013, 08:24:24 AM »
A couple of thoughts...

If our minds were rightly ordered to God I doubt we would want something that is mind-altering.

I agree that what God created was good and remains good.  That being said, the industrial uses of cannabis are much more valuable to humanity than recreational uses.  And don't forget that much of the recreational potential is a product of human interference.  
« Last Edit: April 05, 2013, 08:24:48 AM by KBN1 »

Offline Cyrillic

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Re: The Church & Marijuana
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2013, 08:51:39 AM »
I know that we already have one thread about marijuana somewhere on this board, but this topic is a bit different. All legal aspects aside, is marijuana smoking acceptable to the Church? If it were not illegal, would the Church have a problem with people smoking it? I mean, we allow people to consume alcohol and smoke tobacco, so why not marijuana? Marijuana is the least harmful out of the bad habits, and unlike alcohol, will not cause you to become angry or violent. The only objection I could see against marijuana is that it is illegal, and the Bible tells us to respect the civil authorities, therefore we shouldn't smoke it. But what about marijuana in and of itself, legal aspect aside, what's wrong with it from the Church's standpoint?

Are you planning to smoke pot?
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Offline katherineofdixie

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Re: The Church & Marijuana
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2013, 09:38:34 AM »
Probably OT, but can someone explain to me why we are doing our best to outlaw cigarette smoking and allow marijuana smoking?
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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: The Church & Marijuana
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2013, 09:40:34 AM »
Smoking tobacco is a sin

That would be news to the Greeks.
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Offline WPM

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Re: The Church & Marijuana
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2013, 12:44:46 PM »
Smoking tobacco is a sin? I'm not that religiously inclined to believe that certain things are sinful.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2013, 12:45:13 PM by WPM »

Offline mike

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Re: The Church & Marijuana
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2013, 02:05:42 PM »
and helps them focus

Never met such person.

Just eat the pot, don't smoke it

Same effects but I like the very act of smoking.

to the OP:

"Is willingly damaging your body a sin?"

Yes.

"Is regular smoking (marihuana or tobacco - doesn't matter) harminging your body?"

Yes.

"Is occasional smoking (marihuana or tobacco - doesn't matter) harming your dody?"

I do not think so.

"Is experience posite effect of light intoxcation (with alcohol or tobacco - doesn't matter) sinful?"

It is not.

"Is getting heavily intoxicated (with alcohol or tobacco - doesn't matter) sinful?"

Yes...

Offline J Michael

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Re: The Church & Marijuana
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2013, 03:36:35 PM »
Probably OT, but can someone explain to me why we are doing our best to outlaw cigarette smoking and allow marijuana smoking?

There are, afaik, no known health benefits to smoking tobacco.  There are known health benefits, mainly in the form of pain relief, from what I understand, to smoking or ingesting marijuana.  I include "ingesting" because, perhaps incorrectly, I'm thinking that the active ingredient in pot, THC, should be effective for pain relief whether smoked or eaten or taken in a capsule or whatever.

Smoking too much of *anything* for too long a time, in those susceptible to it, can certainly lead to lung cancer or other respiratory ailments.  I think that might also include inhaling too much incense smoke  ;D, but maybe not if done in the right context   ;).

Also, our increasingly secular society likes, as have virtually all societies/cultures throughout history, to use intoxicants for a whole variety of reasons, a main one being....to get intoxicated.

I eagerly await the day that marijuana use for medical purposes is legalized here in Maryland, not for me, but for my wife.
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Offline Deep Roots

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Re: The Church & Marijuana
« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2013, 03:47:07 PM »
here we go.
Peace.

Offline J Michael

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Re: The Church & Marijuana
« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2013, 03:57:17 PM »
here we go.

Where we go?  (Perhaps to a different forum??)
« Last Edit: April 05, 2013, 03:57:54 PM by J Michael »
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Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: The Church & Marijuana
« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2013, 04:00:13 PM »
here we go.

Here I go again on my own
Going down the only road I've ever known
Like a drifter I was born to walk alone
And I've made up my mind
I ain't wasting no more time

Offline Deep Roots

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Re: The Church & Marijuana
« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2013, 04:03:13 PM »
here we go.

Where we go?  (Perhaps to a different forum??)
back down the spiral of insanity. 
Peace.

Offline J Michael

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Re: The Church & Marijuana
« Reply #31 on: April 05, 2013, 04:17:01 PM »
here we go.

Where we go?  (Perhaps to a different forum??)
back down the spiral of insanity. 

If that's what you want.....
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Offline Deep Roots

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Re: The Church & Marijuana
« Reply #32 on: April 05, 2013, 04:23:25 PM »
here we go.

Where we go?  (Perhaps to a different forum??)
back down the spiral of insanity. 

If that's what you want.....
trust me, no it's not what I want.
Peace.

Offline J Michael

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Re: The Church & Marijuana
« Reply #33 on: April 05, 2013, 04:29:50 PM »
here we go.

Where we go?  (Perhaps to a different forum??)
back down the spiral of insanity. 

If that's what you want.....
trust me, no it's not what I want.

Then perhaps it's not inevitable that we go "back down the spiral of insanity".  Not quite sure where that is, but...maybe we won't find out, after all. 
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: The Church & Marijuana
« Reply #34 on: April 05, 2013, 10:55:24 PM »
The way I see it (not an Orthodox take), is God never created us to "smoke anything".  Nothing in his creation smokes either.  Christ did not smoke.

Neither to fly, swim underwater, move with speed over 30 km/h, use electricity...

You make a good point... But Christ went under water in baptism, flight wasn't invented then, and electricity wasn't "harnessed" then....

People have smoked in the B.C. times, he just never did it.  I don't remember any of the apostles being recorded as smoking nor 2nd century Christians (please correct if wrong, I just can't remember).
I don't believe he intended for us to smoke.  Drink, I do believe that's okay in moderation.  As the Cana example, and also proof that some red wine is good for your body.
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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: The Church & Marijuana
« Reply #35 on: April 05, 2013, 10:58:29 PM »


The way I see it (not an Orthodox take), is God never created us to "smoke anything".  Nothing in his creation smokes either.  Christ did not smoke.




 ;)



Selam



He's gonna have a BIG line of people outside of that church.  LOL
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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: The Church & Marijuana
« Reply #36 on: April 05, 2013, 11:00:38 PM »
The way I see it (not an Orthodox take), is God never created us to "smoke anything".  Nothing in his creation smokes either.  Christ did not smoke.

Neither to fly, swim underwater, move with speed over 30 km/h, use electricity...

Just eat the pot, don't smoke it

I agree, as all plant life is Kosher / clean.  God said so himself.

I don't personally eat it, but I would not disagree with somebody doing it.
Smoking is different, as you are taking something with "high" effects (stoned) into your lungs.  It does actually cause damage.
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Offline Deep Roots

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Re: The Church & Marijuana
« Reply #37 on: April 05, 2013, 11:08:25 PM »
The way I see it (not an Orthodox take), is God never created us to "smoke anything".  Nothing in his creation smokes either.  Christ did not smoke.

Neither to fly, swim underwater, move with speed over 30 km/h, use electricity...

Just eat the pot, don't smoke it

I agree, as all plant life is Kosher / clean.  God said so himself.

I don't personally eat it, but I would not disagree with somebody doing it.
Smoking is different, as you are taking something with "high" effects (stoned) into your lungs.
what on earth are you talking about? haha
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Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Re: The Church & Marijuana
« Reply #38 on: April 06, 2013, 01:24:30 AM »
A couple of thoughts...

If our minds were rightly ordered to God I doubt we would want something that is mind-altering.

I agree that what God created was good and remains good.  That being said, the industrial uses of cannabis are much more valuable to humanity than recreational uses.  And don't forget that much of the recreational potential is a product of human interference.  


I agree completely. Good points.



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Offline FormerReformer

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Re: The Church & Marijuana
« Reply #39 on: April 06, 2013, 05:59:49 AM »
and helps them focus

Never met such person.



Hi, I'm Mike, nice to meet you.

While it's been a few years since I've touched the drug, it did indeed help me to drown out distractions and focus when I used it. That said, it's not an endorsement of use (for one, as has been previously mentioned on this thread, everyone has different reactions). Many of my shortcuts to desired states of mind from that time I would strongly caution against since becoming Orthodox.
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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: The Church & Marijuana
« Reply #40 on: April 06, 2013, 10:08:27 AM »
Doritos, anyone?  ;D

Offline orthonorm

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Re: The Church & Marijuana
« Reply #41 on: April 06, 2013, 11:17:52 AM »
Doritos, anyone?  ;D

only if Locos Tacos follows it.
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Offline Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)

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Re: The Church & Marijuana
« Reply #42 on: April 06, 2013, 11:26:31 AM »
I think that marijuana is a harmful substance. But, so is tobacco, alcohol and most drugs. Even water can kill you (hint: water intoxication). Finally, food in excess can lead to obesity and all sorts of life-altering and ending conditions.

It appears that when adolescents use marijuana, their academic performance suffers and their IQ, perhaps irrevocably, is reduced by up to 10 points. I suppose it does not make a difference to a genius, but this is proof that marijuana is not the benign substance that so many folks believe that is is.

My thought is that a Christian should not use marijuana unless it is prescribed by a doctor. To do otherwise is to fall short.


Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: The Church & Marijuana
« Reply #43 on: April 06, 2013, 09:33:17 PM »
The use of alcohol as an intoxicant, or drunkenness at any rate, is frowned upon by the Church,

If you ignore the wedding in Cana...

I missed the part of the story where it became a drunken orgy of intoxication and excess. Oh, to have been there!
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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: The Church & Marijuana
« Reply #44 on: April 06, 2013, 09:37:25 PM »
Probably OT, but can someone explain to me why we are doing our best to outlaw cigarette smoking and allow marijuana smoking?

I'm gonna say aliens, because it seems to make sense in this case.
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