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Question: Is quitting this way acceptable for now?
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Author Topic: Overcoming my porn problem in parts?  (Read 5814 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #45 on: April 07, 2013, 07:59:46 PM »

Wouldn't God rather we look at porn and masturbate than really go out and fornicate and commit adultery? I mean, what gives? If He didn't want us to do it then He shouldn't have gave us the urges to do it all the time.

He wants us to get married and do it with our wives, if I may be so blunt.  That is why He gave us the urges, not so that we could drag out committing to another person until age 30.  In Ukraine, a woman who plans on marrying but is not married by age 21 is considered an old maid with something wrong with her.  I am not saying that this is a universal ideal (and what's good for the goose is what is good for the gander), but we biologically were meant to marry younger, yet we now have put up cultural obstructions to this.  Besides, we have very immature young adults as a whole.  As a seminary professor, I heard objections from some that "this seminarian is too young to be married."  Nonsense.  They were mature individuals (and we should have more mature young adults such as these young men) and were ripe for marriage and ordination.  Many years to them.    


^And before anyone twists my words, I mean intercourse with only wives (spouses) and not with pornography.  One is to "enjoy the wife of his youth."  

I guess you could take a woman as your wife.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 07:59:58 PM by WPM » Logged
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« Reply #46 on: April 07, 2013, 08:14:25 PM »

Okay, I'll spare the overly detailed talks abut my guilt, ambivalence, loathing, and various embarassing stories.
I have a porn problem, and I've had it for years. Which is saying something, since I'm only 21. I want to stop it, but time and time again I feel a very powerful urge which grows quickly.
I have one idea which may lighten the burden of quitting... but I don't know if it's right or not.
Basically, my idea is to do it in steps. The urge to watch porn comes when I'm aroused, and usually I can fight it. Sometimes I give in. ...That happens a lot. But what if I simply masturbated, without the porn? Keep in mind that the masturbation will be resisted as well. But if I can maybe break the association between porn and masturbating, my enemies decrease in number.

I understand that it's also a sin, and a very serious one. I just want to know if my strategy would be permitted. If not, I'll go back to trying to stop both at once. I just need to know.

GoTo an adult dating website and look for a legitimate partner, then it changes things. (Its no longer masturbation if you have a partner)

By the canons it is double masturbation with twice the penance. 

... laugh MagicWife?...

I am sure that you know what you are talking about. 
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« Reply #47 on: April 07, 2013, 08:14:49 PM »

Wouldn't God rather we look at porn and masturbate than really go out and fornicate and commit adultery? I mean, what gives? If He didn't want us to do it then He shouldn't have gave us the urges to do it all the time.

He wants us to get married and do it with our wives, if I may be so blunt.  That is why He gave us the urges, not so that we could drag out committing to another person until age 30.  In Ukraine, a woman who plans on marrying but is not married by age 21 is considered an old maid with something wrong with her.  I am not saying that this is a universal ideal (and what's good for the goose is what is good for the gander), but we biologically were meant to marry younger, yet we now have put up cultural obstructions to this.  Besides, we have very immature young adults as a whole.  As a seminary professor, I heard objections from some that "this seminarian is too young to be married."  Nonsense.  They were mature individuals (and we should have more mature young adults such as these young men) and were ripe for marriage and ordination.  Many years to them.    


^And before anyone twists my words, I mean intercourse with only wives (spouses) and not with pornography.  One is to "enjoy the wife of his youth."  

I guess you could take a woman as your wife.

Now I am not so sure. 
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« Reply #48 on: April 07, 2013, 08:19:15 PM »

Why I am called "non-Orthodox" ... Is it b/c of church attendance?
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« Reply #49 on: April 07, 2013, 08:22:01 PM »

Why I am called "non-Orthodox" ... Is it b/c of church attendance?



You are not a member of a Orthodox Christian Church (as defined by the forum rules) neither you are in process to join one. If you have some more questions about oderational action, use the private message (it is also not allowed by the rules).
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« Reply #50 on: April 07, 2013, 08:35:41 PM »

n/m
« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 08:36:38 PM by WPM » Logged
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« Reply #51 on: April 07, 2013, 09:30:13 PM »

When you look at porn, you are contributing to the subjugation of the woman...

What are you talking about? They're the ones who chose to become porn stars. If anything, I'm contributing to the subjugation of men by making myself vulnerable to manipulation from an attractive woman.
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You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
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« Reply #52 on: April 07, 2013, 09:34:02 PM »

Wouldn't God rather we look at porn and masturbate than really go out and fornicate and commit adultery? I mean, what gives? If He didn't want us to do it then He shouldn't have gave us the urges to do it all the time.

He wants us to get married and do it with our wives, if I may be so blunt.  That is why He gave us the urges, not so that we could drag out committing to another person until age 30.  In Ukraine, a woman who plans on marrying but is not married by age 21 is considered an old maid with something wrong with her.  I am not saying that this is a universal ideal (and what's good for the goose is what is good for the gander), but we biologically were meant to marry younger, yet we now have put up cultural obstructions to this.  Besides, we have very immature young adults as a whole.  As a seminary professor, I heard objections from some that "this seminarian is too young to be married."  Nonsense.  They were mature individuals (and we should have more mature young adults such as these young men) and were ripe for marriage and ordination.  Many years to them.     


But it's so hard now in American society to get married young. You are expected to go to high-school until you are 18 and thus are incapable of holding down a good job in most cases, and then society expects you to attend college for AT LEAST 4 years. At the very minimum, it's not practical to get married until you are like 22. What are we supposed to do? My parents married right when they turned 18, but that's mostly because they had me at fifteen. Also, what if you don't want a wife? What if I don't want to be married and to have to share my feelings with a woman and all that junk? What if I just want my urge to be satisfied every once in a while? What's so wrong with an occasional wanking? An occasional drink of alcohol is allowed.
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You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
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James, you have problemz.
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« Reply #53 on: April 07, 2013, 09:35:16 PM »

And this James is only the beggining of your struggles. The things will get much worse when you are in your twenties. I don't think really there should be any problems at 17 though, unless you watch a lot of porn.
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« Reply #54 on: April 07, 2013, 10:15:41 PM »

Wouldn't God rather we look at porn and masturbate than really go out and fornicate and commit adultery? I mean, what gives? If He didn't want us to do it then He shouldn't have gave us the urges to do it all the time.

He wants us to get married and do it with our wives, if I may be so blunt.  That is why He gave us the urges, not so that we could drag out committing to another person until age 30.  In Ukraine, a woman who plans on marrying but is not married by age 21 is considered an old maid with something wrong with her.  I am not saying that this is a universal ideal (and what's good for the goose is what is good for the gander), but we biologically were meant to marry younger, yet we now have put up cultural obstructions to this.  Besides, we have very immature young adults as a whole.  As a seminary professor, I heard objections from some that "this seminarian is too young to be married."  Nonsense.  They were mature individuals (and we should have more mature young adults such as these young men) and were ripe for marriage and ordination.  Many years to them.    


But it's so hard now in American society to get married young. You are expected to go to high-school until you are 18 and thus are incapable of holding down a good job in most cases, and then society expects you to attend college for AT LEAST 4 years. At the very minimum, it's not practical to get married until you are like 22. What are we supposed to do? My parents married right when they turned 18, but that's mostly because they had me at fifteen. Also, what if you don't want a wife? What if I don't want to be married and to have to share my feelings with a woman and all that junk? What if I just want my urge to be satisfied every once in a while? What's so wrong with an occasional wanking? An occasional drink of alcohol is allowed.

Since you are talking in "ifs," if any of the above were true, that you don't want a wife, etc., then you are not a Christian.  Please repent or leave the flock, immediately.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 10:17:01 PM by Father H » Logged
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« Reply #55 on: April 07, 2013, 10:18:16 PM »

All that junk? Since he doesn't like anything about women except the body parts, why even bother?
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« Reply #56 on: April 07, 2013, 10:23:24 PM »

All that junk? Since he doesn't like anything about women except the body parts, why even bother?

Biro, you are correct, why even bother?  Yet, with the hope of repentence, I replied.  If I am wrong, then may God judge me harshly.  If he is wrong and does not repent, may God judge him harshly, but still with a hope of ultimate repentance.  And if he is a real Christian, he will acknowledge the truth of this.   
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« Reply #57 on: April 07, 2013, 10:28:19 PM »

Wouldn't God rather we look at porn and masturbate than really go out and fornicate and commit adultery? I mean, what gives? If He didn't want us to do it then He shouldn't have gave us the urges to do it all the time.

He wants us to get married and do it with our wives, if I may be so blunt.  That is why He gave us the urges, not so that we could drag out committing to another person until age 30.  In Ukraine, a woman who plans on marrying but is not married by age 21 is considered an old maid with something wrong with her.  I am not saying that this is a universal ideal (and what's good for the goose is what is good for the gander), but we biologically were meant to marry younger, yet we now have put up cultural obstructions to this.  Besides, we have very immature young adults as a whole.  As a seminary professor, I heard objections from some that "this seminarian is too young to be married."  Nonsense.  They were mature individuals (and we should have more mature young adults such as these young men) and were ripe for marriage and ordination.  Many years to them.     


This was a bit confusing. You say we have very immature young adults, but doesn't that mean they shouldn't marry, if they are immature? Or are you saying they are immature because they don't marry?
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« Reply #58 on: April 07, 2013, 10:35:11 PM »

Well, I know that when one is growing up, as JamesR is, beliefs and attitudes can change. That's true of anyone. But if he treats someone else's feelings as junk, then it's not going to bode well for him and the people he meets. They may want to treat him the same way. And I doubt he'll see it as fair.

Well, I'm not a perfect person either. It's just that if a person has such a negative mindset from the beginning, how's he going to wind up? Happy, or not?

And if he only wants to be around people because of what they can do for him, how long are they going to put up with him? Ever heard of someone getting a drink thrown in their face?

I have a feeling a lot of that is in his future. What a waste.

Yes, I was once young and full of wacky ideas. But you have to learn, or else you get hurt.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2013, 10:35:59 PM by biro » Logged

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« Reply #59 on: April 08, 2013, 01:22:24 AM »

Wouldn't God rather we look at porn and masturbate than really go out and fornicate and commit adultery? I mean, what gives? If He didn't want us to do it then He shouldn't have gave us the urges to do it all the time.

He wants us to get married and do it with our wives, if I may be so blunt.  That is why He gave us the urges, not so that we could drag out committing to another person until age 30.  In Ukraine, a woman who plans on marrying but is not married by age 21 is considered an old maid with something wrong with her.  I am not saying that this is a universal ideal (and what's good for the goose is what is good for the gander), but we biologically were meant to marry younger, yet we now have put up cultural obstructions to this.  Besides, we have very immature young adults as a whole.  As a seminary professor, I heard objections from some that "this seminarian is too young to be married."  Nonsense.  They were mature individuals (and we should have more mature young adults such as these young men) and were ripe for marriage and ordination.  Many years to them.     


But it's so hard now in American society to get married young. You are expected to go to high-school until you are 18 and thus are incapable of holding down a good job in most cases, and then society expects you to attend college for AT LEAST 4 years. At the very minimum, it's not practical to get married until you are like 22. What are we supposed to do? My parents married right when they turned 18, but that's mostly because they had me at fifteen. Also, what if you don't want a wife? What if I don't want to be married and to have to share my feelings with a woman and all that junk? What if I just want my urge to be satisfied every once in a while? What's so wrong with an occasional wanking? An occasional drink of alcohol is allowed.

Guess what, James - you won't be allowed to "satisfy yourself" within a monastery, either.
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« Reply #60 on: April 08, 2013, 01:28:04 AM »

Well, I know that when one is growing up, as JamesR is, beliefs and attitudes can change. That's true of anyone. But if he treats someone else's feelings as junk, then it's not going to bode well for him and the people he meets. They may want to treat him the same way. And I doubt he'll see it as fair.

Well, I'm not a perfect person either. It's just that if a person has such a negative mindset from the beginning, how's he going to wind up? Happy, or not?

And if he only wants to be around people because of what they can do for him, how long are they going to put up with him? Ever heard of someone getting a drink thrown in their face?

I have a feeling a lot of that is in his future. What a waste.

Yes, I was once young and full of wacky ideas. But you have to learn, or else you get hurt.

It's just, I don't really understand this "feelings" stuff. I didn't grow up in a household that was necessarily very compassionate to each other's "feelings." The concept of "feelings" is very foreign to me and somewhat frightening, seeing that I always either ignored my feelings or dealt with them on my own, because I was worried about further stressing my parents out.
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You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
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James, you have problemz.
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« Reply #61 on: April 08, 2013, 01:29:20 AM »

Guess what, James - you won't be allowed to "satisfy yourself" within a monastery, either.

I know that, but at least I'd be receiving the spiritual guidance and harsh treatment I'd need to battle the urges. I don't want to go to a monastery because I think it'll be a fun vacation or something, but because I think it's the only treatment that can help me and the only lifestyle where I can really be spiritually productive.
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You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
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James, you have problemz.
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« Reply #62 on: April 08, 2013, 01:34:04 AM »

Guess what, James - you won't be allowed to "satisfy yourself" within a monastery, either.

I know that, but at least I'd be receiving the spiritual guidance and harsh treatment I'd need to battle the urges. I don't want to go to a monastery because I think it'll be a fun vacation or something, but because I think it's the only treatment that can help me and the only lifestyle where I can really be spiritually productive.

What, so you're not getting spiritual guidance on this from your priest/confessor?  Huh
« Last Edit: April 08, 2013, 01:34:27 AM by LBK » Logged
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« Reply #63 on: April 08, 2013, 01:39:02 AM »

Guess what, James - you won't be allowed to "satisfy yourself" within a monastery, either.

I know that, but at least I'd be receiving the spiritual guidance and harsh treatment I'd need to battle the urges. I don't want to go to a monastery because I think it'll be a fun vacation or something, but because I think it's the only treatment that can help me and the only lifestyle where I can really be spiritually productive.

What, so you're not getting spiritual guidance on this from your priest/confessor?  Huh

Yeah I am, but there's not really much he can do. All he does is tell me what I should do, but ultimately, it comes down on me to do it. It's not like at a monastery where I have people constantly looking out for me, reminding me, checking up on me and making sure I do the right thing. I'm pretty much on my own.
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You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
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James, you have problemz.
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« Reply #64 on: April 08, 2013, 01:41:13 AM »

Guess what, James - you won't be allowed to "satisfy yourself" within a monastery, either.

I know that, but at least I'd be receiving the spiritual guidance and harsh treatment I'd need to battle the urges. I don't want to go to a monastery because I think it'll be a fun vacation or something, but because I think it's the only treatment that can help me and the only lifestyle where I can really be spiritually productive.

What, so you're not getting spiritual guidance on this from your priest/confessor?  Huh

Yeah I am, but there's not really much he can do. All he does is tell me what I should do, but ultimately, it comes down on me to do it. It's not like at a monastery where I have people constantly looking out for me, reminding me, checking up on me and making sure I do the right thing. I'm pretty much on my own.

Do not assume you'll be getting your very own guardian monk if you stay at a monastery.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #65 on: April 08, 2013, 03:44:50 AM »

What are you talking about? They're the ones who chose to become porn stars. If anything, I'm contributing to the subjugation of men by making myself vulnerable to manipulation from an attractive woman.

And helping the business grow. Responsibility is not only for yourself, but also for others.
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« Reply #66 on: April 08, 2013, 06:48:37 AM »

Guess what, James - you won't be allowed to "satisfy yourself" within a monastery, either.

I know that, but at least I'd be receiving the spiritual guidance and harsh treatment I'd need to battle the urges. I don't want to go to a monastery because I think it'll be a fun vacation or something, but because I think it's the only treatment that can help me and the only lifestyle where I can really be spiritually productive.

What, so you're not getting spiritual guidance on this from your priest/confessor?  Huh

Yeah I am, but there's not really much he can do. All he does is tell me what I should do, but ultimately, it comes down on me to do it. It's not like at a monastery where I have people constantly looking out for me, reminding me, checking up on me and making sure I do the right thing. I'm pretty much on my own.

I understand your struggles, James. I have had similar experience with being told what to do, but not really how to do it. That is something which we all do need to work out for ourselves. Our confessors may know a lot about us, but they aren't mind-readers.

I think you should be aware, however, that it's all right to tell your spiritual father more about your life situation that may help him to find the right "remedy". I'm saying you should make excuses for your sins, but for instance, if you are addicted to pornography, maybe mention the kinds of situations that you find lead to the temptation to view pornography. That kind of self-examination could help you to avoid the sin in the future.

Your spiritual growth is a joint project between you, your spiritual father and God.

Here are some positive things I can point to in what I hear you say:

First, you recognize that you are in a bad spiritual situation, that you have spiritually harmful addictions that you need to overcome. This is MUCH better than being in a state of denial, trying to justify your addictions, making excuses and so on.

Second, you recognize that constant vigilance is required to overcome this.

Here are some cautionary remarks:

Don't think that you will solve the problem just by joining a monastery. When men and women decide to leave the world to become monastics, if they are successful they have typically ALREADY made individual lifestyle choices to abandon worldly pleasures and pursuits. They don't expect the monastery to do their spiritual growth for them.

That being said, I certainly encourage visiting monasteries. Think about how you feel when you are there. Do you feel spiritually uplifted, or relieved of burdens? Think about what it is you can do in your own life, in your own place, that can achieve the same tranquility.

Ultimately, as my spiritual father told me, you will overcome these addictions because you want to. It sounds like you're still at the stage where part of you wants to indulge these impulses, even though another part, your conscience, recognizes the harm. You need to get to the stage where you don't even want to indulge the impulses.
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« Reply #67 on: April 10, 2013, 05:22:41 PM »

Wouldn't God rather we look at porn and masturbate than really go out and fornicate and commit adultery? I mean, what gives? If He didn't want us to do it then He shouldn't have gave us the urges to do it all the time.

He wants us to get married and do it with our wives, if I may be so blunt.  That is why He gave us the urges, not so that we could drag out committing to another person until age 30.  In Ukraine, a woman who plans on marrying but is not married by age 21 is considered an old maid with something wrong with her.  I am not saying that this is a universal ideal (and what's good for the goose is what is good for the gander), but we biologically were meant to marry younger, yet we now have put up cultural obstructions to this.  Besides, we have very immature young adults as a whole.  As a seminary professor, I heard objections from some that "this seminarian is too young to be married."  Nonsense.  They were mature individuals (and we should have more mature young adults such as these young men) and were ripe for marriage and ordination.  Many years to them.    


But it's so hard now in American society to get married young. You are expected to go to high-school until you are 18 and thus are incapable of holding down a good job in most cases, and then society expects you to attend college for AT LEAST 4 years. At the very minimum, it's not practical to get married until you are like 22. What are we supposed to do? My parents married right when they turned 18, but that's mostly because they had me at fifteen.

I actually agree with this, sometimes I feel that the Church is really struggling (unnecessarily, in some cases) to keep up with the massive socioeconomic changes of the present day. I appreciate that the Christian message is supposed to be timeless, but from what I've observed, Orthodox outreach to contemporary youth is sorely lacking, at least in the West. Maybe the Orthodox have something to learn from the Catholics or even Evangelicals in this respect. Orthodox churches in America (with exceptions, obviously) seem to be largely self-contained fortresses protected by walls of ethnic identity that are difficult to penetrate even for those with self-initiative; measures to integrate outsiders are limited at best, much less relate to non-Orthodox young adults. There really has to be a concerted, sincere effort by the priest AND the parishioners for things to change in individual parishes.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 05:44:16 PM by NightOwl » Logged
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« Reply #68 on: April 10, 2013, 06:53:53 PM »

Wouldn't God rather we look at porn and masturbate than really go out and fornicate and commit adultery? I mean, what gives? If He didn't want us to do it then He shouldn't have gave us the urges to do it all the time.

He wants us to get married and do it with our wives, if I may be so blunt.  That is why He gave us the urges, not so that we could drag out committing to another person until age 30.  In Ukraine, a woman who plans on marrying but is not married by age 21 is considered an old maid with something wrong with her.  I am not saying that this is a universal ideal (and what's good for the goose is what is good for the gander), but we biologically were meant to marry younger, yet we now have put up cultural obstructions to this.  Besides, we have very immature young adults as a whole.  As a seminary professor, I heard objections from some that "this seminarian is too young to be married."  Nonsense.  They were mature individuals (and we should have more mature young adults such as these young men) and were ripe for marriage and ordination.  Many years to them.    


But it's so hard now in American society to get married young. You are expected to go to high-school until you are 18 and thus are incapable of holding down a good job in most cases, and then society expects you to attend college for AT LEAST 4 years. At the very minimum, it's not practical to get married until you are like 22. What are we supposed to do? My parents married right when they turned 18, but that's mostly because they had me at fifteen.

I actually agree with this, sometimes I feel that the Church is really struggling (unnecessarily, in some cases) to keep up with the massive socioeconomic changes of the present day. I appreciate that the Christian message is supposed to be timeless, but from what I've observed, Orthodox outreach to contemporary youth is sorely lacking, at least in the West. Maybe the Orthodox have something to learn from the Catholics or even Evangelicals in this respect. Orthodox churches in America (with exceptions, obviously) seem to be largely self-contained fortresses protected by walls of ethnic identity that are difficult to penetrate even for those with self-initiative; measures to integrate outsiders are limited at best, much less relate to non-Orthodox young adults. There really has to be a concerted, sincere effort by the priest AND the parishioners for things to change in individual parishes.

I don't know about that. I think the main problem is associated with adolescence, where the renewed development of the pre-frontal cortex starts at the onset of puberty and lasts until mid to late twenties. During this time, adolescents' executive functions are diminished, so that they need more supervision and not less. Yet, we start to wean them from parental control during this time, with an eye of producing independent adults by age 18. No wonder they mess up, particularly after they go off to college or reach this mythical adulthood. The kind of outreach they need is greater and not less parental control, to include the reintroduction of the in loco parentis doctrine for colleges.
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« Reply #69 on: April 10, 2013, 07:21:47 PM »

Wouldn't God rather we look at porn and masturbate than really go out and fornicate and commit adultery? I mean, what gives? If He didn't want us to do it then He shouldn't have gave us the urges to do it all the time.

He wants us to get married and do it with our wives, if I may be so blunt.  That is why He gave us the urges, not so that we could drag out committing to another person until age 30.  In Ukraine, a woman who plans on marrying but is not married by age 21 is considered an old maid with something wrong with her.  I am not saying that this is a universal ideal (and what's good for the goose is what is good for the gander), but we biologically were meant to marry younger, yet we now have put up cultural obstructions to this.  Besides, we have very immature young adults as a whole.  As a seminary professor, I heard objections from some that "this seminarian is too young to be married."  Nonsense.  They were mature individuals (and we should have more mature young adults such as these young men) and were ripe for marriage and ordination.  Many years to them.    


But it's so hard now in American society to get married young. You are expected to go to high-school until you are 18 and thus are incapable of holding down a good job in most cases, and then society expects you to attend college for AT LEAST 4 years. At the very minimum, it's not practical to get married until you are like 22. What are we supposed to do? My parents married right when they turned 18, but that's mostly because they had me at fifteen.

I actually agree with this, sometimes I feel that the Church is really struggling (unnecessarily, in some cases) to keep up with the massive socioeconomic changes of the present day. I appreciate that the Christian message is supposed to be timeless, but from what I've observed, Orthodox outreach to contemporary youth is sorely lacking, at least in the West. Maybe the Orthodox have something to learn from the Catholics or even Evangelicals in this respect. Orthodox churches in America (with exceptions, obviously) seem to be largely self-contained fortresses protected by walls of ethnic identity that are difficult to penetrate even for those with self-initiative; measures to integrate outsiders are limited at best, much less relate to non-Orthodox young adults. There really has to be a concerted, sincere effort by the priest AND the parishioners for things to change in individual parishes.

I don't know about that. I think the main problem is associated with adolescence, where the renewed development of the pre-frontal cortex starts at the onset of puberty and lasts until mid to late twenties. During this time, adolescents' executive functions are diminished, so that they need more supervision and not less. Yet, we start to wean them from parental control during this time, with an eye of producing independent adults by age 18. No wonder they mess up, particularly after they go off to college or reach this mythical adulthood. The kind of outreach they need is greater and not less parental control, to include the reintroduction of the in loco parentis doctrine for colleges.

What do you mean by "mess up"? I've made mistakes before and after leaving home for college, but I'm happy to have borne sole responsibility for those mistakes and learned from them. I'm also made many positive decisions, such as beginning my journey to Orthodoxy, which wouldn't have been possible under greater parental control. Besides, in the modern world, independence even from an early age is a necessity; hand-holding until young adults reach their mid-20s is not going to work. That's simply a cultural and economic reality. So no, I think in this case integration into a stable community (specifically, a parish) is much more important than intervention and supervision by parents or parent figures; and for that, said communities need to be welcoming and understanding, not withdrawn and dismissive.
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« Reply #70 on: April 10, 2013, 09:55:00 PM »

Guess what, James - you won't be allowed to "satisfy yourself" within a monastery, either.

I know that, but at least I'd be receiving the spiritual guidance and harsh treatment I'd need to battle the urges. I don't want to go to a monastery because I think it'll be a fun vacation or something, but because I think it's the only treatment that can help me and the only lifestyle where I can really be spiritually productive.

Harsh treatment will not stop anyone, it will only make them more perturbed, feel persecuted, and attempt to rationalize their desires. What is needed is more faith in the reality of God, which will lead to an abhorrence to do anything that offends him, in addition to his help. Anything can be done with God. He is a greater help that you have now than an imaginary harsh monastery is. Don't wait for some other set of conditions to come along to do what you can do now.

(Note: I read that again and I want to make clear, I am not saying your faith is lacking or anything like that, but the amount of faith we can have is infinite.. we can always have more)
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« Reply #71 on: April 11, 2013, 12:01:00 AM »

Some of you guys should read "porn destruction stories" and read about the lifelong addiction problem of some people and how it harmed their lives.  This stuff is way more dangerous than I thought...  I think its going to cause a real problem in our society.

I would suggest putting scriptures taped all over your monitor, so that if you try to indulge, you get reminded.  Pray when urged.

I really wish old school courtship was still around.  Marry at 17...
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« Reply #72 on: April 11, 2013, 12:06:08 AM »

Wouldn't God rather we look at porn and masturbate than really go out and fornicate and commit adultery? I mean, what gives? If He didn't want us to do it then He shouldn't have gave us the urges to do it all the time.

He wants us to get married and do it with our wives, if I may be so blunt.  That is why He gave us the urges, not so that we could drag out committing to another person until age 30.  In Ukraine, a woman who plans on marrying but is not married by age 21 is considered an old maid with something wrong with her.  I am not saying that this is a universal ideal (and what's good for the goose is what is good for the gander), but we biologically were meant to marry younger, yet we now have put up cultural obstructions to this.  Besides, we have very immature young adults as a whole.  As a seminary professor, I heard objections from some that "this seminarian is too young to be married."  Nonsense.  They were mature individuals (and we should have more mature young adults such as these young men) and were ripe for marriage and ordination.  Many years to them.    


But it's so hard now in American society to get married young. You are expected to go to high-school until you are 18 and thus are incapable of holding down a good job in most cases, and then society expects you to attend college for AT LEAST 4 years. At the very minimum, it's not practical to get married until you are like 22. What are we supposed to do? My parents married right when they turned 18, but that's mostly because they had me at fifteen.

I actually agree with this, sometimes I feel that the Church is really struggling (unnecessarily, in some cases) to keep up with the massive socioeconomic changes of the present day. I appreciate that the Christian message is supposed to be timeless, but from what I've observed, Orthodox outreach to contemporary youth is sorely lacking, at least in the West. Maybe the Orthodox have something to learn from the Catholics or even Evangelicals in this respect. Orthodox churches in America (with exceptions, obviously) seem to be largely self-contained fortresses protected by walls of ethnic identity that are difficult to penetrate even for those with self-initiative; measures to integrate outsiders are limited at best, much less relate to non-Orthodox young adults. There really has to be a concerted, sincere effort by the priest AND the parishioners for things to change in individual parishes.

I don't know about that. I think the main problem is associated with adolescence, where the renewed development of the pre-frontal cortex starts at the onset of puberty and lasts until mid to late twenties. During this time, adolescents' executive functions are diminished, so that they need more supervision and not less. Yet, we start to wean them from parental control during this time, with an eye of producing independent adults by age 18. No wonder they mess up, particularly after they go off to college or reach this mythical adulthood. The kind of outreach they need is greater and not less parental control, to include the reintroduction of the in loco parentis doctrine for colleges.

Brother Carl,

I absolutely agree with you.  I'm beginning to hear the horrendous struggle that many adolescent males are going through with pornography.  Coupled with "life destruction stories" of men who have had their families and lives ravished over porn (which addiction started in their teens).

I think every parent of teens (especially males which I will be in a few years) needs to drastically teach their sons about the sins of lust and how the evil ways of this world want to enslave them to a lifetime of porn use.

I greatly believe this will harm our society, teens will not know what "becoming one flesh" with a spouse is about, and only grow to know how to solve their own sinful lust.

**You young guys remember this - marriage AFTER a porn problem will NOT stop your porn problem.  I suggest you go read some porn destruction stories on various anti-porn sites.   Many men think they will stop yet never do.
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« Reply #73 on: April 11, 2013, 10:53:56 AM »

The internet has opened a constant streaming access to pornography that was only sparcely available in the past through  adult bookstores. Its access to minors is pretty open if parents have not carefully locked down their access to "family sites" and eventhen thepornography industry has been able to filter itself so that even some early levels of pronography can be accessed by young children not aware of what they are doing. This  immediate availablity has hurt the porn industry in sales of vidoes and DVDs but has opened wide up the accessibility into communities through the internet sales of sex fantasy for pay websites and free porn shorts websites even to communities that previously limited adult bookstores or closed them out.

As for the Orthodox Christian perhaps the best solution is to flee before them and just not open them up. passion and uncontrolled passions are one of our most dangerous challenges to the holy life. Thanks be to God that he has mercy and allows us confession and counseling of holy fathers to help us rid ourselves of these passions.

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« Reply #74 on: April 11, 2013, 03:08:15 PM »

Its access to minors is pretty open if parents have not carefully locked down their access to "family sites" and eventhen thepornography industry has been able to filter itself so that even some early levels of pronography can be accessed by young children not aware of what they are doing.

Here is the sad reality; no internet filter is going to work. If someone wants porn, then they WILL get porn and find a way around it. There is ALWAYS a way to cripple the filter, get around it and get your porn fix. Ultimately, the root of the problem needs to be solved. And that means that I have to continue my struggle  Cry
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« Reply #75 on: April 12, 2013, 04:57:33 AM »

My sympathy goes out to you, James: I think in this dire age all men are in the same boat when it comes to controlling certain base urges.

My humble advice to you would be first of all to stop viewing smut, even if it means continuing to indulge in self-pleasure (at least for some time). The images you expose yourself through porn will corrupt your "image sphere", filling you with evil logismoi, which in turn will stir lust in you. Limit your exposure to such filth, and you'll see that gradually you'll find it easier to stop masturbating as well.

May God and his most pure Mother help you.
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« Reply #76 on: April 12, 2013, 11:26:55 AM »

Let's just say I scale back during fasts, plus I've been tied up with the blog and another big writing project on, surprise!, the Passions.  But, thank you for the kind words.

The following blog deals with the problem of addictions including porn:

http://orthodoxyandrecovery.blogspot.com

The owner of the blog also happens to be one of the more insightful posters on this forum. I don't think he posts during fasts, though.
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« Reply #77 on: April 12, 2013, 11:41:57 AM »

As to the OP, here are a few thoughts:

1) Unless you are really, really sick, you are not going to watch porn or masturbate in public.  When the urge comes, then run (i.e. "Run, Forrest, run!"... hear those words and flee from temptation)!  Get out and go for a walk.  It won't happen in the street (if it does, then you need a different kind of help).

2) This includes where you put your computer.  Put it in a place where others can easily see what you are doing.  I've known one case where an extra monitor cable was run into the living room (no sound).  This really does help, because porn requires secrecy.

3) Masturbation and porn are more about loneliness, and I'm not talking about simply getting married.  We feel wanted and valued in the sex act, and our bodies give us that sensation of companionship and 'needworthiness' in the act.  The more people get plugged into relationships where they are necessary and irreplaceable, the less the temptation creeps up on them.

4) The problem also has to do with how unnatural the 'wait time' is on modern marriage.  I've done ancestral research, and found most of my relatives from the 1850s back were married at 16, the height of male sexual drive.  I think we are reaching a tipping point where society is crumbling, and the whole concept of marriage will soon be totally debased, so I'm not sure what exactly we can do about this because offering your daughter up for marriage before age 30 nowadays looks crazy.  Then again, we are still calling college-age adults 'children' and keeping them on their parents taxes and medical insurance, while they are voting and having sex like adults.  Stupid.

I do not condemn someone for occasionally masturbating, so long as he/she is repentant.  Once you've been sexually active, it is hard to shut that drive down and live in the world without temptation and struggle.  I do not condone porn or reckless self-gratification of any kind.  So, if you occasionally get drunk or masturbate, then confession suffices so long as dependency or lack of concern does not develop.
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« Reply #78 on: April 15, 2013, 02:31:34 AM »

The easiest thing to do, of course, is put an icon of Christ next to your computer.

How will you watch porn then? The shame will become so terrible, what will you do? Your only option is either to not watch it, or to put the icon downward (as if God cannot already see...). Do this just as a reminder that God sees all and knows all. In the time of judgement, what will you say in defense of such acts?

Other ideas.

If you ever get aroused or something, try to pray. Even the simple Jesus prayer. Or just Kyrie Eleison. If you have trouble getting it away, try pinching yourself.

If you ever fail and do fully such sins, at least after realize what you have done and the waste of life you have done.
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« Reply #79 on: April 16, 2013, 12:42:57 PM »

It would be helpful if you were born with an OFF switch.

When Robots start getting old (over 40-50) years, their parts start to rust and break down due to improper maintenance.
They like to point to their success in overcoming this problem and pass judgement on the younger Robots (under 30) years,
who still possess working equipment.

Well maintained Robots (at any age) can outperform even a 17 year old humanoid, however.
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« Reply #80 on: April 16, 2013, 01:46:11 PM »

It would be helpful if you were born with an OFF switch.

When Robots start getting old (over 40-50) years, their parts start to rust and break down due to improper maintenance.
They like to point to their success in overcoming this problem and pass judgement on the younger Robots (under 30) years,
who still possess working equipment.

Well maintained Robots (at any age) can outperform even a 17 year old humanoid, however.

PotM! And on your first post.
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« Reply #81 on: April 16, 2013, 04:05:44 PM »

What my priest told me, I will with humbleness share:

- Try to gain selfcontrol and pick up your chotki (or just pray it on the fingers, the Jesusprayer).
- He also stressed the importance of getting occupied with other things when those attacks sets in

Very solid advice.  If you exhaust yourself in work, discipline, prayer every day, you will soon find you'll go weeks without even feeling an urge.  It's when you have free time that problems arise. 

Precisely Father.  Idle hands are the devil's tools. 

Best advice in this thread.  I also encourage meeting with ones priest to discuss such personal and intimate matters.  To the shock of some on this thread, they actually know a thing or two about this sort of stuff, even if they are older than 19.
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« Reply #82 on: April 16, 2013, 04:19:12 PM »

Our priest according to my Godmother had heard it all after his first month here as a priest and he has been here for 18 years.
And I am sure that there are other orthodox priests that can say the same thing.
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« Reply #83 on: April 16, 2013, 04:50:28 PM »

It would be helpful if you were born with an OFF switch.

When Robots start getting old (over 40-50) years, their parts start to rust and break down due to improper maintenance.
They like to point to their success in overcoming this problem and pass judgement on the younger Robots (under 30) years,
who still possess working equipment.

Well maintained Robots (at any age) can outperform even a 17 year old humanoid, however.

PotM! And on your first post.

Sigh. Sorry Thomas. Didn't realize this was Convert Issues.
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« Reply #84 on: April 22, 2013, 01:15:37 PM »

What my priest told me, I will with humbleness share:

- Try to gain selfcontrol and pick up your chotki (or just pray it on the fingers, the Jesusprayer).
- He also stressed the importance of getting occupied with other things when those attacks sets in

I agree with this. Self-control, prayer, and finding more profitable things to do is very helpful in overcoming this weakness. I, personally, have a long way to go with this, so I'm in the same boat as the OP. May God help us.

- Jade
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« Reply #85 on: April 30, 2013, 11:32:08 AM »

Its access to minors is pretty open if parents have not carefully locked down their access to "family sites" and eventhen thepornography industry has been able to filter itself so that even some early levels of pronography can be accessed by young children not aware of what they are doing.

Here is the sad reality; no internet filter is going to work. If someone wants porn, then they WILL get porn and find a way around it. There is ALWAYS a way to cripple the filter, get around it and get your porn fix. Ultimately, the root of the problem needs to be solved. And that means that I have to continue my struggle  Cry

I don't know if this has been suggested yet but check out a program called covenant eyes. It's software that will report ALL of your internet activity to an accountability partner. It doesn't block any sites, just reports every site you visit.

If it's not enough that Christ sees what you are doing, perhaps answering directly to another person seeing your activity will help you. The program also features a "panic" button that you can click on that will totally lock down your internet and only your accountability partner can unlock it for you.
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« Reply #86 on: April 30, 2013, 11:36:57 AM »

Its access to minors is pretty open if parents have not carefully locked down their access to "family sites" and eventhen thepornography industry has been able to filter itself so that even some early levels of pronography can be accessed by young children not aware of what they are doing.

Here is the sad reality; no internet filter is going to work. If someone wants porn, then they WILL get porn and find a way around it. There is ALWAYS a way to cripple the filter, get around it and get your porn fix. Ultimately, the root of the problem needs to be solved. And that means that I have to continue my struggle  Cry

I don't know if this has been suggested yet but check out a program called covenant eyes. It's software that will report ALL of your internet activity to an accountability partner. It doesn't block any sites, just reports every site you visit.

If it's not enough that Christ sees what you are doing, perhaps answering directly to another person seeing your activity will help you. The program also features a "panic" button that you can click on that will totally lock down your internet and only your accountability partner can unlock it for you.
that would certainly save the partner some time, especially on work days and such.
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« Reply #87 on: April 30, 2013, 11:51:46 AM »

Its access to minors is pretty open if parents have not carefully locked down their access to "family sites" and eventhen thepornography industry has been able to filter itself so that even some early levels of pronography can be accessed by young children not aware of what they are doing.

Here is the sad reality; no internet filter is going to work. If someone wants porn, then they WILL get porn and find a way around it. There is ALWAYS a way to cripple the filter, get around it and get your porn fix. Ultimately, the root of the problem needs to be solved. And that means that I have to continue my struggle  Cry

I don't know if this has been suggested yet but check out a program called covenant eyes. It's software that will report ALL of your internet activity to an accountability partner. It doesn't block any sites, just reports every site you visit.

If it's not enough that Christ sees what you are doing, perhaps answering directly to another person seeing your activity will help you. The program also features a "panic" button that you can click on that will totally lock down your internet and only your accountability partner can unlock it for you.
that would certainly save the partner some time, especially on work days and such.

I should say that the partner does not have to sort through all of the sites themselves. The report that the accountability partner gets has the sites listed along with a % probability that it was a porn site. The reports are compiled weekly and sent to the accountability partner. It doesn't take more than 5-10 minutes for the partner to check the report and see what happened in the past week.

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« Reply #88 on: April 30, 2013, 12:22:50 PM »

I like the K9 one so far. It barks at me if I'm on a site that could be questionable.
I wounder how the guy who started this thread is doing so far. I'm doing good right now. Grumpy though, lol.
I found an interesting video with Ted Talks about pornography and rewiring the brain. You can find it on YouTube. Good stuff.
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« Reply #89 on: April 30, 2013, 04:06:48 PM »

I think it would help if some of you who struggle with porn research it.

There are many accounts of young women who were fully exploited to be in the videos.  Often from broken homes, addicted to drugs, and under VERY heavy pressure to "go further" in the videos.  Several have come out and said "they felt raped afterwards".  There is an organization called "the pink cross", where the lady explains many of the horrors in porn.   The only exception may be the most famous... But most young women feel fully exploited.

Then the end user is exploited.  I believe James is exploited, along with other porn users.  They are given this "eye candy" of fantasy.  They do not know these women, they do not know their hearts.  They only are seen as meat for their fleshy desires.   They do not understand that these women have feelings, need love, nurturing, and care as any human being does.  The women are merely reduced to their body, and the spirit or emotions are not in consideration.

Then there is further destruction.  As the young men often masturbate to the pornography, it "programs" their mind as the dopamine is released through the process in their brains.  This is a "natural chemical dependency".   The porn will call them back time and time again as their brains seek the "release".   

ALSO and one of the MOST important factors is, it will "program" their brains for "unrealistic" expectations of what sex is.   A 17 year old who believes that women like many of the sex acts depicted in these movies & photos are in for an enormous let down.   There are MANY testimonies online where men think "they'll stop" their pornography addiction when they get married... They soon learn that sex is more than the lustful acts in the porn movies they have watched....

In marriage "making love" is entirely different as there is love & care for the other half of your "one flesh".   Since all humanity, emotion, and care has been "programmed" into the porn user's mind, the sex in marriage does not satisfy that which their brain is addicted to.  Thus they return to porn.  Often this leads to a destroyed physical relationship, hurts the marriage.....  Sometimes leads to divorce, etc.  You can read many porn destruction stories online.

People do not realize how dangerous this stuff is.

It literally swallows up people for life, and they are never able to get away from it.   

I'd suggest for everybody to just STOP if you are using porn.... Not just for the reasons above,

But because our Lord and savior told us not to commit adultery in our hearts, through looking at women lustfully.

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Tags: pornography masturbation 
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