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Author Topic: Illuminati & Freemasons  (Read 18715 times) Average Rating: 3
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dcommini
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« Reply #45 on: April 12, 2013, 06:44:17 PM »

I believe that there was an issue of The Word magazine back in the early 90's wherein it said that Freemasonry and the Antiochian Church were not incompatible or some such thing. I wish I could find that article again...

Also, there may be a few posters on this site who are Orthodox and Freemasons (I know of at least one who asked his priest if he could be a Mason and Orthodox and the priest did not have a  problem; this was in the GOAA IIRC)
Why would a Christian, or Orthodox for that matter, want to join Freemasons? What's the gain?

The fellow I was referring to was a Mason before he became Orthodox. He had heard and read all of the stuff forbidding Freemasonry and asked his priest. The priest had no problem with the guy being a Mason and Orthodox.

As to why a Christian, Orthodox or otherwise would want to be a Freemason... Well, AFAIK, in the Blue Lodge (first 3 degrees) there is nothing opposing Christian doctrine. The Scottish Rite (which is an appellant body*) I do not know, but I have heard that there is plenty of Jewish and Arabic type stuff. The York Rite (another appellant body) actually has a path in which one must be a Christian to follow (this ends with the Knights Templar - not the actual one that was destroyed). In the US I can understand Orthodox wanting to be involved in a fraternity such as the Masons as there are not many Orthodox fraternities (and the ones I have found are not very wide spread).

There are some perks of being a Mason, such as maybe making a few friends in different industries, being able to get a job, getting out of a speeding ticket, etc. However it should be noted that while Masons do help out their fellow brothers they are also expected to help out their fellow humans. One of their core beliefs, if you will, is the charity of all mankind.

Also, the only "mystic" type stuff is in their degrees, which is very similar to most college fraternities, their monthly meetings are business meetings after they have dinner. Seriously, they open and have a reading of the previous months minutes, then they ask about new business (collecting dues, paying for a widows' electric bill, mowing the lawn of a disabled vet, etc) then they close.

If you have any more questions please feel free to ask (pm or otherwise). I have studied Freemasonry in depth for many years.
Thank you for explaining it,from what ive read and from what ive heard of them is two different stories. By the sound of it, they are just a nice society that help each other out as well as do charity and try to improve the communities etc.

They are accepting of other religions which is nice, so why are they considered to be a "secret society" if anyone can join?
Why are they thought of behind Zionism if they accept different religions?
Also, why a LOT of people are wary of them and there is a feeling of a dislike towards them?

They seem to be a nice enough organisation, but again a lot of people are suspicious of them.There is no smoke without fire..

there is nothing nice to come from a secret society, anyone who doesn't think these secret societies control the world,  are of the devil and want to destroy mankind are naive and don't know what they are talking about...

"Lucifer, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable, blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish souls? Doubt it not!"

 [Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, p. 321, 19th Degree of Grand Pontiff; Red Emphasis added]

Masons from the first initiation which is the first degree are urged to mightily "seek the Light!"  The average Mason is continually saying that he is "seeking the Light," and will spend his entire life "moving toward the Light."

People who haven't studied this subject would assume that this "Light" is the revelation of the God of the Bible.    This statement is continuously held up to try to convince us that Masonry is Christian.  In the above quote, Albert Pike is saying that Lucifer is the One who bears the Light of Freemasonry.

Concrete evidence is then given by Pike of Freemason's worship of Satan/Lucifer on the very front of the cover of Morals and Dogma.  Pike writes a Latin phrase just below the round seal of "God,"  this is a phrase proven to be Satanic.

Any "Satanic brother" looking at this phrase would know that the contents of this book are Satanic.  They would also understand that the entire religion of Freemasonry is Satanic.

"DEUS MEUMQUE JUS" is this phrase.  The literal meaning is "God and My Right"

Doc Marquis says this statement is a typical one within Satanism.   There is one meaning within another with this statement.   The first meaning is that the Freemason can depend upon their God to determine their Right and Justice.  The second meaning is, since the God of Freemasonry is Lucifer,  Masons are saying that they are "using occult methods," through Lucifer, to achieve their Rights and Justice.    This phrase is very powerful and dangerous within Satanism says Marquis.   A Satanist knows the content within Pike's book is Satanism just by reading, "DEUS MEUMQUE JUS."  They don't even have to read the book, just the phrase to know.

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/symbology/1o5.htm


Firstly, Pike never spoke for the whole of Freemasonry. No body ever speaks for the whole of Masonry. It would be very hard for any one person to do so seeing as how rites and some words can change from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Also, these guys can't even vote on what to eat from month to month, or to change the carpet, let alone try to rule the world.

If some one did speak for Freemasonry who would it be? The Grand Master of England? The Grand Master of Ireland? What about the Grand Master of Tennessee? (I mention a state because there is no Grand Master of North America).

Second, Pike was in charge of the Southern jurisdiction of the Scottish Rite. I mention this to show that he was not in charge of Freemasonry. The Scottish Rite is known as an appellant body, meaning that it is not necessary to go through the Scottish Rite, it is its own separate entity, however one must be a Mason to join the Scottish Rite. The Scottish Rite has no authority over Freemasonry in the least. In fact the Grand Lodge of Arkansas recently cut ties with the Scottish Rite there because the SR was still receiving demitted members (those who haven't paid their dues) of Freemasonry.
 
The Scottish Rite in the Southern part of the US is different from the Scottish Rite in the North. Both are different from Scottish Rites in other areas. These differences include name of degrees and what is learned in each degree. Very hard for all of them to get together and rule the world when they can't even agree on the simple things.

Thirdly, all one has to do is actually read Morals and Dogma to see that Pike is not extolling Satan, rather the opposite in fact. He says that it is strange that the name Lucifer would be used for the Prince of Darkness seeing as how the later means Light Bearer. He is pretty much trying to reclaim the name Lucifer for the Messiah.

And finally, the Freemasons are not a secret society! Anybody who believes in a higher power can join (and in some countries that is not even required). Want to know what happens behind closed doors? Then join, if you feel like they are trying to get you to sacrifice to Basphomet then leave. No matter what they will respect you for your decision.

Don't want to join and "risk your soul" (or it is banned by your church)? Then look online and find all of the secret handshakes and passwords and degree work. Once you do that you will know the secrets of Freemasonry.

You will know that the third degree is an allegory and lesson to be patient and not greedy. You will learn of the death of Hiram Abiff because you will take on his role. Then, your brothers will explain to you that, although Hiram Abiff died and took the password of a Master Mason to the grave with him, they will symbolically raise you so you may be joined fully to your fellow brothers (fully here meaning that you have all the rights and benefits of a Master Mason, such as wearing a ring, wearing an apron how you please, funeral honors, putting a decal on your car, etc. Not that you are now so fully joined to them that you can never escape).

Oh, and one more thing, there is a part of the York Rite (another appellant body) that you have to be a confessing Christian (trinitarian, regular churchgoer, etc) to even go through.

 Edit:: Lucifer can't be that bad of a name if there is a St. Lucifer recognized by the Roman Church.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2013, 06:45:33 PM by dcommini » Logged

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« Reply #46 on: April 12, 2013, 08:18:46 PM »

^ Pretty much what you said.  It's origins and the original underlying objectives are somewhat foggy, but most of the conspiracies are pretty silly.

That said, I always found the "Pike doesn't speak for Masonry," even though ostensibly true for the reasons you mentioned, a little lacking.  You're right, Morals & Dogma is not Masonic dogma.  However, upon completion of the degrees in the Southern Jurisdiction (which is pretty much all of the US, minus New England, Mid-Atlantic, and Wisconsin) the member was presented with an official book from the former head of the organization, explaining all of those degrees.  So while it may not be official teaching, it's uncomfortably close (to the teaching of the Scottish Rite, not Masonry in general). And if the SR is unofficially called the University of Freemasonry (oh goodness, probably more conspiracies off of this one), it implies that the teachings are pretty connected.  Frankly, I think they're a bit too disjointed to make a coherent conspiracy out of.

While I find Pike's works interesting, I won't defend their accuracy or truth.  There was, however, a thread awhile back (it might've been in one of the 1,396 Freemason threads).  Anyway, there was a discussion about whether Lucifer was the same as Satan, and while it's pretty much a consensus understanding now, that wasn't always the case.  I can't remember, but a number of Father's wrote about Lucifer as if he wasn't.

But I do know that the current head of the Scottish Rite wears a bow-tie and has a devil tail.
Source for devil tail comment: the internet, maybe.

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« Reply #47 on: April 13, 2013, 09:04:16 AM »

I believe that there was an issue of The Word magazine back in the early 90's wherein it said that Freemasonry and the Antiochian Church were not incompatible or some such thing. I wish I could find that article again...

Also, there may be a few posters on this site who are Orthodox and Freemasons (I know of at least one who asked his priest if he could be a Mason and Orthodox and the priest did not have a  problem; this was in the GOAA IIRC)
Why would a Christian, or Orthodox for that matter, want to join Freemasons? What's the gain?

The fellow I was referring to was a Mason before he became Orthodox. He had heard and read all of the stuff forbidding Freemasonry and asked his priest. The priest had no problem with the guy being a Mason and Orthodox.

As to why a Christian, Orthodox or otherwise would want to be a Freemason... Well, AFAIK, in the Blue Lodge (first 3 degrees) there is nothing opposing Christian doctrine. The Scottish Rite (which is an appellant body*) I do not know, but I have heard that there is plenty of Jewish and Arabic type stuff. The York Rite (another appellant body) actually has a path in which one must be a Christian to follow (this ends with the Knights Templar - not the actual one that was destroyed). In the US I can understand Orthodox wanting to be involved in a fraternity such as the Masons as there are not many Orthodox fraternities (and the ones I have found are not very wide spread).

There are some perks of being a Mason, such as maybe making a few friends in different industries, being able to get a job, getting out of a speeding ticket, etc. However it should be noted that while Masons do help out their fellow brothers they are also expected to help out their fellow humans. One of their core beliefs, if you will, is the charity of all mankind.

Also, the only "mystic" type stuff is in their degrees, which is very similar to most college fraternities, their monthly meetings are business meetings after they have dinner. Seriously, they open and have a reading of the previous months minutes, then they ask about new business (collecting dues, paying for a widows' electric bill, mowing the lawn of a disabled vet, etc) then they close.

If you have any more questions please feel free to ask (pm or otherwise). I have studied Freemasonry in depth for many years.
Thank you for explaining it,from what ive read and from what ive heard of them is two different stories. By the sound of it, they are just a nice society that help each other out as well as do charity and try to improve the communities etc.

They are accepting of other religions which is nice, so why are they considered to be a "secret society" if anyone can join?
Why are they thought of behind Zionism if they accept different religions?
Also, why a LOT of people are wary of them and there is a feeling of a dislike towards them?

They seem to be a nice enough organisation, but again a lot of people are suspicious of them.There is no smoke without fire..

there is nothing nice to come from a secret society, anyone who doesn't think these secret societies control the world,  are of the devil and want to destroy mankind are naive and don't know what they are talking about...

"Lucifer, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable, blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish souls? Doubt it not!"

 [Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, p. 321, 19th Degree of Grand Pontiff; Red Emphasis added]

Masons from the first initiation which is the first degree are urged to mightily "seek the Light!"  The average Mason is continually saying that he is "seeking the Light," and will spend his entire life "moving toward the Light."

People who haven't studied this subject would assume that this "Light" is the revelation of the God of the Bible.    This statement is continuously held up to try to convince us that Masonry is Christian.  In the above quote, Albert Pike is saying that Lucifer is the One who bears the Light of Freemasonry.

Concrete evidence is then given by Pike of Freemason's worship of Satan/Lucifer on the very front of the cover of Morals and Dogma.  Pike writes a Latin phrase just below the round seal of "God,"  this is a phrase proven to be Satanic.

Any "Satanic brother" looking at this phrase would know that the contents of this book are Satanic.  They would also understand that the entire religion of Freemasonry is Satanic.

"DEUS MEUMQUE JUS" is this phrase.  The literal meaning is "God and My Right"

Doc Marquis says this statement is a typical one within Satanism.   There is one meaning within another with this statement.   The first meaning is that the Freemason can depend upon their God to determine their Right and Justice.  The second meaning is, since the God of Freemasonry is Lucifer,  Masons are saying that they are "using occult methods," through Lucifer, to achieve their Rights and Justice.    This phrase is very powerful and dangerous within Satanism says Marquis.   A Satanist knows the content within Pike's book is Satanism just by reading, "DEUS MEUMQUE JUS."  They don't even have to read the book, just the phrase to know.

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/symbology/1o5.htm


Firstly, Pike never spoke for the whole of Freemasonry. No body ever speaks for the whole of Masonry. It would be very hard for any one person to do so seeing as how rites and some words can change from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Also, these guys can't even vote on what to eat from month to month, or to change the carpet, let alone try to rule the world.

If some one did speak for Freemasonry who would it be? The Grand Master of England? The Grand Master of Ireland? What about the Grand Master of Tennessee? (I mention a state because there is no Grand Master of North America).

Second, Pike was in charge of the Southern jurisdiction of the Scottish Rite. I mention this to show that he was not in charge of Freemasonry. The Scottish Rite is known as an appellant body, meaning that it is not necessary to go through the Scottish Rite, it is its own separate entity, however one must be a Mason to join the Scottish Rite. The Scottish Rite has no authority over Freemasonry in the least. In fact the Grand Lodge of Arkansas recently cut ties with the Scottish Rite there because the SR was still receiving demitted members (those who haven't paid their dues) of Freemasonry.
 
The Scottish Rite in the Southern part of the US is different from the Scottish Rite in the North. Both are different from Scottish Rites in other areas. These differences include name of degrees and what is learned in each degree. Very hard for all of them to get together and rule the world when they can't even agree on the simple things.

Thirdly, all one has to do is actually read Morals and Dogma to see that Pike is not extolling Satan, rather the opposite in fact. He says that it is strange that the name Lucifer would be used for the Prince of Darkness seeing as how the later means Light Bearer. He is pretty much trying to reclaim the name Lucifer for the Messiah.

And finally, the Freemasons are not a secret society! Anybody who believes in a higher power can join (and in some countries that is not even required). Want to know what happens behind closed doors? Then join, if you feel like they are trying to get you to sacrifice to Basphomet then leave. No matter what they will respect you for your decision.

Don't want to join and "risk your soul" (or it is banned by your church)? Then look online and find all of the secret handshakes and passwords and degree work. Once you do that you will know the secrets of Freemasonry.

You will know that the third degree is an allegory and lesson to be patient and not greedy. You will learn of the death of Hiram Abiff because you will take on his role. Then, your brothers will explain to you that, although Hiram Abiff died and took the password of a Master Mason to the grave with him, they will symbolically raise you so you may be joined fully to your fellow brothers (fully here meaning that you have all the rights and benefits of a Master Mason, such as wearing a ring, wearing an apron how you please, funeral honors, putting a decal on your car, etc. Not that you are now so fully joined to them that you can never escape).

Oh, and one more thing, there is a part of the York Rite (another appellant body) that you have to be a confessing Christian (trinitarian, regular churchgoer, etc) to even go through.

 Edit:: Lucifer can't be that bad of a name if there is a St. Lucifer recognized by the Roman Church.
firstly you don't know what you are talking about
secondly , you don't know what you are talking about
thirdly, you just don't have a clue of what you are talking about
are you a mason?
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« Reply #48 on: July 18, 2013, 12:09:16 AM »

It's interesting. One website claims:
Quote
On the official website of the Masonic Grand Lodge of Greece (http://www.grandlodge.gr/Famous_gr_home.html) is a listing of famous known Masons from 1800-1950. They name...: Ecumenical Patriarchs Meletios II, Basileios III, and Joakeim III... Jerusalem Patriarch Benedictos.

The leading Masonic Periodical of Greece... states Patriarch... Demetrios is a Mason...

http://www.trueorthodoxy.org/non_christian_others_freemasonry_condemnations.shtml

Another one says:
Quote
Metropolitan Meletios Metaksak  
the official Journal of the Moscow Patriarchate, No 2 [has] full details of his masonic career. Other particulars of his masonry can be found in the masonic journal Pythagore-Equerre, Vol. 4, Part 7, 1935, where his obituary was published.
http://www.orthodoxengland.org.uk/ocet22.htm

Here on this forum, Gunarr pointed to the website mentioned in the first quote:
Here is a link to the official Grand Lodge of Greece
There is also a listing of two other Patriarchs who the Grand Lodge says are masons, they put this disclaimer for... the two below:
*Μολονότι ελλείπουν τα στοιχεία των επί μέρους Στοών, λόγω καταστροφής αρχείων, εν τούτοις η τεκτονική ιδιότητα των αναφερομένων προσωπικοτήτων, έχει επιβεβαιωθεί και τεκμηριωθεί από άλλα σχετικά έγγραφα.
(translated into english by google translate:
* Although there is evidence of individual Lodges due to file corruption, though the tectonic quality of the mentioned figures, has confirmed and documented by other documents.

Patriarch Photius of Alexandria
Patriarch Athenagoras I of Constantinople

And here apparently a schismatic Catholic group posted another photograph:
Quote

Here we see... Paul VI giving a clear Masonic handshake to the... Patriarch of Constantinople, Athenagoras, on Jan. 5, 1964. The two schismatics also mutually lifted the reciprocal excommunications of 1054.
http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/Paul6photogallery.php
If the groups are making official announcements about them, those Patriachs' membership doesn't appear a secret.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2013, 12:12:05 AM by rakovsky » Logged
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« Reply #49 on: July 18, 2013, 12:11:32 AM »

Here we see... Paul VI giving a clear Masonic handshake to the... Patriarch of Constantinople, Athenagoras, on Jan. 5, 1964.

Just looks like a sissy handshake to me. I hate when dudes give those.
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« Reply #50 on: July 18, 2013, 12:20:41 AM »

A webpage about the group's shake described it in a similar way that you have.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2013, 12:45:51 AM by rakovsky » Logged
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« Reply #51 on: July 18, 2013, 12:57:10 AM »

A webpage about the group's shake described it in a similar way
It's also on the Discovery Channel.
Minute 0:20:05
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rwAT9aOEME
« Last Edit: July 18, 2013, 01:14:41 AM by rakovsky » Logged
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« Reply #52 on: July 18, 2013, 01:30:57 AM »

There intention is secular and demonic The Freemasons do target Christians in order to undermine Christianity, and they did so with the Orthodox in Eastern Europe and Russia. They clearly got into the Vatican and Vatican II is a result. Praised be God that they did not do the same harm to the Orthodox Church that they did to the Catholics. The Orthodox were not left untouched by any means, but compared to the Catholics they were left untouched. They infiltrated the Catholic Church because in the West it was the only real institution threatening them. They had already gotten rid of all the Christian monarchies and governments and replaced them with secular governments. Before Vatican II the Catholic Church was a means of resistance, but they got in and finally got in to the highest ranks. On the surface they seem Christian and say they want monotheists, but that is just the means to get gullible Christians in. I have an Episcopalian friend who thinks they are just find. He is a Mason. But he is low ranking, like first or second rank, so he has no idea of the real intentions.
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« Reply #53 on: July 18, 2013, 10:39:34 AM »

The Freemasons do target Christians in order to undermine Christianity, and they did so with the Orthodox in Eastern Europe and Russia.
The Freemasons are largely a western European phenomenon, due to them starting either with the Knights Templar or in 18th century England and France. In the time of Catherine the Great, who was from western Europe, they had a presence in Russia, and Tolstoy portrays them in War and Peace as a group of western diplomats.

Supposely Stalin purged the Freemasons, which would be in keeping with his paranoia and "monolith"-ism. And we don't have lodges in Russian provinces like we do in western cities.

Consequently, it seems that Freemasons in the Orthodox world are focused more on Greek communities like the E.P. than on Russian ones. Greek communities have had much more contact and societal influence from modern western Europe.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2013, 10:40:59 AM by rakovsky » Logged
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« Reply #54 on: July 18, 2013, 01:15:52 PM »

What about the New World Order bringing about of communism in Russia? Now I know especially here in America there is still an excessive negative view of Russia, especially among neo-conservatives who are still living in a Cold War mentality. Also I do understand that though communism took its rise in Russia that it is the result of Western European liberalism, particularly the organic development of the Enlightenment. Still, what would you say particularly led to the view of communism in Russia?
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« Reply #55 on: July 18, 2013, 11:40:31 PM »

What about the New World Order bringing about of communism in Russia?
Dear Wain,

I cannot give you an answer that is 100% certain. I can say that Russia had a long history of revolts against the Tsar, going back to Stepan Razin. Marx was surprised how big a reaction his ideas had in Russia. Millions of everyday Russians lived somewhere between free people and slaves up to almost the 20th century.  They had been sharing property in their communities for centuries, although the owner was the landlords. So socialism was not an idea without appeal.

The idea of having a society that was no longer oriented around the Tsar, but was much more equal was very appealing to the millions of everyday Russians that did the revolting. Wain, I doubt that those rebellious peasants had some serious study of Marx or brainwashing. They were sick of WWI because alot of soldiers did not have guns, and their army revolted. While the "mainstream" Russian parties wanted to keep fighting, the leftists didn't want to, because they thought that the war was about fighting for elitist empires.

I personally don't believe the NWO made the Russian revolution, partly because the western powers invaded the USSR to stop Lenin, who nationalized the resources, taking those resources out of their possible control. Similarly, when Venezuela nationalizes their resources, it makes it harder for foreign companies connected to the NWO to control. Granted, I cannot guarantee 100% there is no connection, it's just my conclusion.
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« Reply #56 on: July 20, 2013, 03:38:00 PM »

What about the New World Order bringing about of communism in Russia?
I cannot give you an answer that is 100% certain.
Wain,

You may also find this helpful: the Communist International's statement on Freemasonry from 1922:
Quote
The congress instructs the Central Committee of the French Communist Party to liquidate prior to January 1, 1923 all the connections between the party, in the person of its individual members or groups, with the Freemasons. Every Communist, belonging to a Masonic lodge who fails prior to January 1 to openly announce to his party and to make public through the party press his complete break with Freemasonry is thereby automatically expelled from the Communist Party and is forever barred from membership in it. Concealment by anyone of his membership in the Masonic order will be regarded as an act of penetration by an enemy agent into the party ranks and will brand the individual involved with ignominy in the eyes of the whole proletariat.
http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/1924/ffyci-2/22.htm

On the other hand, the Masonic literature was not particularly complimentary of Orthodoxy:
Quote
the yoke of the infidel, however galling on the conscience, is of far lighter burden than that of the champion of the Orthodox Church of Christ.[The Tsar] Well, indeed, may the question be asked: Well, indeed, may the question be asked, "What is this Christianity of the Russians "" And emphatically true is the answer, " Man-worship, the religion of despotism!"
Mason's Quarterly Magazine, books.google.com/books?id=u1kDAAAAYAAJ
To be fair, the context of the quote was the political rule of the Tsar.
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« Reply #57 on: July 20, 2013, 04:00:17 PM »

Interesting on the communism thing. Still, there was an influence of a certain liberal conspiracy. The Jews had a very strong place in the rise of communism and still hold a lot of power today for such a small minority.
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« Reply #58 on: July 20, 2013, 04:11:17 PM »

It wouldn't surprise me if Jews had their hand disproportionately in a lot of things. Their culture promotes intelligence, productivity, and cohesion. If only white people emulated them instead of coming up with conspiracy theories about why they manage to rise to the top.
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« Reply #59 on: July 20, 2013, 04:18:05 PM »

This is by far the silliest thread on the forum. Even the thread about Achronos' new rule doesn't even come close.
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« Reply #60 on: July 20, 2013, 04:19:47 PM »

This is by far the silliest thread on the forum. Even the thread about Achronos' new rule doesn't even come close.

I believe you arrived at the forum after the infamous thread of Achronos on wearing a robe to liturgy, did you not?
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« Reply #61 on: July 20, 2013, 06:48:04 PM »

I like Achronos' rule, because it points to brevity. To summarize my earlier post, what do you think about how Greece's grand lodge, two Masonic journals, and the Journal of the Moscow Patriarchate, combined, name over half a dozen Patriarchs as freemasons, one of whom is photographed with the handshake?
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« Reply #62 on: July 20, 2013, 06:56:33 PM »

I like Achronos' rule, because it points to brevity. To summarize my earlier post, what do you think about how Greece's grand lodge, two Masonic journals, and the Journal of the Moscow Patriarchate, combined, name over half a dozen Patriarchs as freemasons, one of whom is photographed with the handshake?

Idiocy.
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« Reply #63 on: July 20, 2013, 07:03:49 PM »

I am skeptical about the handshake, but I do believe the ones they claim to be masons are masons or at least most of them. I don't think any heirarchs are masons now though. but they are still following many of the roads those masons created
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« Reply #64 on: July 20, 2013, 07:10:55 PM »

I like Achronos' rule, because it points to brevity. To summarize my earlier post, what do you think about how Greece's grand lodge, two Masonic journals, and the Journal of the Moscow Patriarchate, combined, name over half a dozen Patriarchs as freemasons, one of whom is photographed with the handshake?
Idiocy.
Idiocy because it was a stupid decision for him to join the Masons, or because it's stupid to think that it matters whether 7 Patriarchs have been Masons?

Orthowiki mentions this statement about Pat. Meletius IV as well: http://orthodoxwiki.org/Meletius_IV_%28Metaxakis%29_of_Constantinople

Another website says of him:
Quote
He dies in Zurich, Switzerland and is buried in Cairo, Egypt. At his hierarchal funeral, his Masonic apron is placed over his episcopal vestments by his brother Masons. His Masonic gloves and evergreen twig are placed in his coffin.
http://thattimehascome.blogspot.com/2009/09/timeline-orthodox-christianity-in-20th.html
I admit I can have some doubt about a random Orthodox website making this claim about the funeral. However, it is a fact he was buried in Cairo. The city seems an unlikely place for a Patriarch of Alexandria, but it is an important place for Masonry, which associates its ideas with the pyramids.
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« Reply #65 on: July 20, 2013, 08:11:40 PM »

I like Achronos' rule, because it points to brevity. To summarize my earlier post, what do you think about how Greece's grand lodge, two Masonic journals, and the Journal of the Moscow Patriarchate, combined, name over half a dozen Patriarchs as freemasons, one of whom is photographed with the handshake?
Idiocy.
Or did you mean it's an idiotic claim?


Antiochian Abp Niphon Sabbas of Lebanon a 33 Degree Freemason
(Source: http://www.scribd.com/doc/130103744/Greek-Orthodox-Freemasons-Hierarchs-Clergymen-Who-Have-Been-Members)
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« Reply #66 on: July 20, 2013, 09:30:39 PM »

I am skeptical about the handshake, but I do believe the ones they claim to be masons are masons or at least most of them. I don't think any heirarchs are masons now though. but they are still following many of the roads those masons created
Gunarr,
If it was the handshake by itself I would be more skeptical, but the Grand Lodge mentions him as one too. An Orthodox group wrote to one of the Patriarchs when the Masons announced he was one, and he didn't deny it. So there's strong direct evidence.

It is hard to say that currently the EP or Greek church leaders are Masons, as you pointed out. However, Masons are supposed to promote their own.

Your last sentence is in line with this story:
Quote
Constantinople Patriarch gives Quran as a present to Chairman of the Caucasus Muslim Board

Baku, 9 November 2009, Interfax - Patriarch Bartholomew I of Constantinople gave the Quran as a present to the chairman of the Caucasus Muslim Board Allahshukur Pasha-zade for the 60th anniversary.

Comments: AVB34
...giving a Koran as a gift is in perfect accord with the beliefs of freemasonry i.e. that all religions are essentially the same
http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2009/11/patriarch-bartholomew-gives-muslim-gift.html
(In their initiations, the Bible and Quran can be used interchangeably.)
Quote
Patriarch Bartholomew was seen on a jet airliner in his going to meeting attire, wearing his “Mason Suit” complete with necktie (Freemasons are required to wear a suit and tie to their meetings, but Orthodox rules forbid clergy to do this)... We ought not dress according to a Freemason, the Stoglav Council forbids it. Bartholomew never denied being a Freemason (Orthodoxos Typos, October 30, 1992).
http://www.scribd.com/doc/130103744/Greek-Orthodox-Freemasons-Hierarchs-Clergymen-Who-Have-Been-Members
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« Reply #67 on: July 23, 2013, 02:42:43 AM »

I am skeptical about the handshake, but I do believe the ones they claim to be masons are masons or at least most of them. I don't think any heirarchs are masons now though. but they are still following many of the roads those masons created
Gunarr,
If it was the handshake by itself I would be more skeptical, but the Grand Lodge mentions him as one too. An Orthodox group wrote to one of the Patriarchs when the Masons announced he was one, and he didn't deny it. So there's strong direct evidence.

It is hard to say that currently the EP or Greek church leaders are Masons, as you pointed out. However, Masons are supposed to promote their own.

Your last sentence is in line with this story:
Quote
Constantinople Patriarch gives Quran as a present to Chairman of the Caucasus Muslim Board

Baku, 9 November 2009, Interfax - Patriarch Bartholomew I of Constantinople gave the Quran as a present to the chairman of the Caucasus Muslim Board Allahshukur Pasha-zade for the 60th anniversary.

Comments: AVB34
...giving a Koran as a gift is in perfect accord with the beliefs of freemasonry i.e. that all religions are essentially the same
http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2009/11/patriarch-bartholomew-gives-muslim-gift.html
(In their initiations, the Bible and Quran can be used interchangeably.)
Quote
Patriarch Bartholomew was seen on a jet airliner in his going to meeting attire, wearing his “Mason Suit” complete with necktie (Freemasons are required to wear a suit and tie to their meetings, but Orthodox rules forbid clergy to do this)... We ought not dress according to a Freemason, the Stoglav Council forbids it. Bartholomew never denied being a Freemason (Orthodoxos Typos, October 30, 1992).
http://www.scribd.com/doc/130103744/Greek-Orthodox-Freemasons-Hierarchs-Clergymen-Who-Have-Been-Members

yes, I agree that he was a mason, I just don't see the handshake as being something to go crazy about, because I am sure I have made the same handshake with my grandpa. Simply, I do not require that handshake to find he is a mason thanks to the other evidence.

although, i will read about Patriarch Bartholomew, but I already came to a conclusion not enough evidence he is one. and he would be stupid to be one. but perhaps hyour link will change my mind i will see

EDIT:

sorry it did not convince me. i would require for Patriarch Bartholomew to have a quote, being asked if he was a freemason and his response.
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« Reply #68 on: July 23, 2013, 12:42:28 PM »

yes, I agree that he was a mason, I just don't see the handshake as being something to go crazy about, because I am sure I have made the same handshake with my grandpa.
My grandpa made this handshake with me once, with an explanation. That's how I know it's true.
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« Reply #69 on: July 23, 2013, 12:44:15 PM »

My grandpa made this handshake with me once, with an explanation. True.

Tubalcain.

PM me if you know what I mean. Ignore if you don't. Gazziza.
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« Reply #70 on: July 23, 2013, 01:42:07 PM »

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« Reply #71 on: July 23, 2013, 01:44:15 PM »

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« Reply #72 on: July 23, 2013, 01:45:35 PM »

Sometimes, just when I am about to shake the hand of another person, I stick one of my fingers inward, thus simultaneously gripping their hand and tickling their palm. I have yet to have anyone reciprocate, but I feel like it will happen soon.
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« Reply #73 on: July 23, 2013, 02:31:52 PM »

There is a reason why it is called a secret society. If we knew all about them the it will just be a society. All I know is that it has a Evil written all over it, and we will be right to not like them.
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« Reply #74 on: July 23, 2013, 04:48:42 PM »

My grandpa made this handshake with me once, with an explanation. True.

Tubalcain.

PM me if you know what I mean. Ignore if you don't. Gazziza.
Genesis 4:22:
as for Zillah, she also bore Tubal-Cain, an instructor of every craftsman in bronze and iron.

Newsradio, episode 43:
Joe teaches Jimmy the secret masonic word "Tubalcain" that might automatically win him the court case.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NewsRadio_season_3#Space

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Newsradio, episode 47
This episode introduced the word "gazizza," later used in Space (ep.52)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NewsRadio_season_3#Space
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« Reply #75 on: July 23, 2013, 04:56:35 PM »

I know some freemasons and they are good people, although they may be delluded about what masonary is.

I think that their universalist deism is reason enough not to join. And also I always remember the explanation my father gave to not accept an invitation to become one: when someone asks you to join something that they will give details of what it is only *after* you are already committed to them, they are asking you to give them a blank cheque on your life. It can't be a good thing.
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« Reply #76 on: July 23, 2013, 04:57:30 PM »

Genesis 4:22:
as for Zillah, she also bore Tubal-Cain, an instructor of every craftsman in bronze and iron.

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« Reply #77 on: July 23, 2013, 05:00:14 PM »

when someone asks you to join something that they will give details of what it is only *after* you are already committed to them, they are asking you to give them a blank cheque on your life. It can't be a good thing.
What if you have to make promises that you will be killed in bad ways if you tell the secrets before you are told them?
It's on the History Channel.
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« Reply #78 on: July 23, 2013, 05:07:06 PM »

It's on the History Channel.

 Huh
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« Reply #79 on: July 23, 2013, 05:28:43 PM »

The Discovery channel mentions the "blood oaths", but there is enough on the internet about the oaths too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rwAT9aOEME
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« Reply #80 on: August 03, 2013, 10:37:20 PM »

Read "The Broken Cross," by Compton. It talks about how the Illuminati controls the Vatican.
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« Reply #81 on: September 14, 2013, 03:33:46 PM »


firstly you don't know what you are talking about
secondly , you don't know what you are talking about
thirdly, you just don't have a clue of what you are talking about
are you a mason?

First, I do know what I am talking about, because I actually study topics that interest me from as much as a non-biased view as possible instead of just jumping on the hate-monger bandwagon.

Second, see above. I wanted to find out why everybody always spoke ill of the Masons so I read the books people always love to cite. I found out that they do what Protestants do best, pick and choose passages.

Third, see above two. Also, I took the time to talk to actual Masons to see what they actually believed concerning the writings of Albert Pike. Many had no clue who he was. Those who do know who Pike is never even came to the conclusion that Satan is the "Masonic God." Some of these people were only members of the Blue Lodge, some were York Rite, and others still Scottish Rite (a few 32nd and 33rd degree Masons). If these people don't know what they are talking about then who does? And please spare me the, "Of course they didn't tell you all of their secrets," speech; don't you think these people would be smart enough to leave in droves once they found out who they were supposedly worshiping?

Am I a mason? No, I don't work with stone.
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« Reply #82 on: September 14, 2013, 03:35:28 PM »

when someone asks you to join something that they will give details of what it is only *after* you are already committed to them, they are asking you to give them a blank cheque on your life. It can't be a good thing.
What if you have to make promises that you will be killed in bad ways if you tell the secrets before you are told them?
It's on the History Channel.

cross my heart, hope to die, stick a needle in my eye if I lie. Really, a bunch of geezers running around and playing grade school games.
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« Reply #83 on: September 14, 2013, 03:42:20 PM »


firstly you don't know what you are talking about
secondly , you don't know what you are talking about
thirdly, you just don't have a clue of what you are talking about
are you a mason?

First, I do know what I am talking about, because I actually study topics that interest me from as much as a non-biased view as possible instead of just jumping on the hate-monger bandwagon.

Second, see above. I wanted to find out why everybody always spoke ill of the Masons so I read the books people always love to cite. I found out that they do what Protestants do best, pick and choose passages.

Third, see above two. Also, I took the time to talk to actual Masons to see what they actually believed concerning the writings of Albert Pike. Many had no clue who he was. Those who do know who Pike is never even came to the conclusion that Satan is the "Masonic God." Some of these people were only members of the Blue Lodge, some were York Rite, and others still Scottish Rite (a few 32nd and 33rd degree Masons). If these people don't know what they are talking about then who does? And please spare me the, "Of course they didn't tell you all of their secrets," speech; don't you think these people would be smart enough to leave in droves once they found out who they were supposedly worshiping?

Am I a mason? No, I don't work with stone.
I found one of their passages about Lucifer could easily be read to oppose or reinterpret Lucifer, but there are enough other passages favoring him.

It is hard to know for sure how many are telling you the truth, since they aren't supposed to reveal their secrets. Did they mention drinking out of a skull? Probably not.
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« Reply #84 on: September 14, 2013, 04:00:33 PM »


firstly you don't know what you are talking about
secondly , you don't know what you are talking about
thirdly, you just don't have a clue of what you are talking about
are you a mason?

First, I do know what I am talking about, because I actually study topics that interest me from as much as a non-biased view as possible instead of just jumping on the hate-monger bandwagon.

Second, see above. I wanted to find out why everybody always spoke ill of the Masons so I read the books people always love to cite. I found out that they do what Protestants do best, pick and choose passages.

Third, see above two. Also, I took the time to talk to actual Masons to see what they actually believed concerning the writings of Albert Pike. Many had no clue who he was. Those who do know who Pike is never even came to the conclusion that Satan is the "Masonic God." Some of these people were only members of the Blue Lodge, some were York Rite, and others still Scottish Rite (a few 32nd and 33rd degree Masons). If these people don't know what they are talking about then who does? And please spare me the, "Of course they didn't tell you all of their secrets," speech; don't you think these people would be smart enough to leave in droves once they found out who they were supposedly worshiping?

Am I a mason? No, I don't work with stone.
I found one of their passages about Lucifer could easily be read to oppose or reinterpret Lucifer, but there are enough other passages favoring him.

It is hard to know for sure how many are telling you the truth, since they aren't supposed to reveal their secrets. Did they mention drinking out of a skull? Probably not.

I've not found any favoring Lucifer in the traditional sense. What I gathered from Pike is that he was trying to rebrand the name Lucifer; instead of the name being used to denote a dark being, take it back to its original roots to describe a "light" being. He notes that it is strange for the Prince of Darkness to be called Lucifer, when Lucifer means something else entirely (light bearer/bringer, my Latin is rusty).

Any proof that they drink out of skulls? Actual proof, not somebody who heard the story from their best friend's aunt's second son who knew a top secret government agent that drank beer with the Grand Poombah?
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« Reply #85 on: September 14, 2013, 07:46:04 PM »


firstly you don't know what you are talking about
secondly , you don't know what you are talking about
thirdly, you just don't have a clue of what you are talking about
are you a mason?

First, I do know what I am talking about, because I actually study topics that interest me from as much as a non-biased view as possible instead of just jumping on the hate-monger bandwagon.

Second, see above. I wanted to find out why everybody always spoke ill of the Masons so I read the books people always love to cite. I found out that they do what Protestants do best, pick and choose passages.

Third, see above two. Also, I took the time to talk to actual Masons to see what they actually believed concerning the writings of Albert Pike. Many had no clue who he was. Those who do know who Pike is never even came to the conclusion that Satan is the "Masonic God." Some of these people were only members of the Blue Lodge, some were York Rite, and others still Scottish Rite (a few 32nd and 33rd degree Masons). If these people don't know what they are talking about then who does? And please spare me the, "Of course they didn't tell you all of their secrets," speech; don't you think these people would be smart enough to leave in droves once they found out who they were supposedly worshiping?

Am I a mason? No, I don't work with stone.
I found one of their passages about Lucifer could easily be read to oppose or reinterpret Lucifer, but there are enough other passages favoring him.

It is hard to know for sure how many are telling you the truth, since they aren't supposed to reveal their secrets. Did they mention drinking out of a skull? Probably not.

I've not found any favoring Lucifer in the traditional sense. What I gathered from Pike is that he was trying to rebrand the name Lucifer; instead of the name being used to denote a dark being, take it back to its original roots to describe a "light" being. He notes that it is strange for the Prince of Darkness to be called Lucifer, when Lucifer means something else entirely (light bearer/bringer, my Latin is rusty).

Any proof that they drink out of skulls? Actual proof, not somebody who heard the story from their best friend's aunt's second son who knew a top secret government agent that drank beer with the Grand Poombah?
As a matter of fact, a mason gave me this the other day.  It is quite handy when drinking sweet tea.

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« Reply #86 on: September 14, 2013, 07:56:02 PM »

Quote
A kapala (Sanskrit for "skull") or skullcup is a cup made from a human skull used as a ritual implement (bowl) in both Hindu Tantra and Buddhist Tantra (Vajrayana). Especially in Tibet, they were often carved or elaborately mounted with precious metals and jewels.

The kapala is considered a legacy of ancient traditions of human sacrifice. In Tibetan monasteries it is used symbolically to hold bread or dough cakes, torma, and wine instead of blood and flesh as offerings to wrathful deities, such as the ferocious Dharmapāla ("defender of the faith"). The dough cakes are shaped to resemble human eyes, ears and tongues. The kapala is made in the form of a skull specially collected and prepared. It is elaborately anointed and consecrated before use. The cup is also elaborately decorated and kept in a triangular pedestal. The heavily embossed cup is usually made of silver-gilt bronze with lid shaped like a skull and with a handle made in the form of a thunderbolt.[2]

Kapalas are used mainly for esoteric purposes such as rituals. Among the rituals using kapalas are: higher tantric meditation to achieve a transcendental state of thought and mind within the shortest possible time; libation to gods and deities to win their favor; by Tibetan Lamas as an offering bowl on the altar, filled with wine or blood as a gift to the Yidam Deity or all the Deities; and the Vajrayana empowerment ceremony.

Source

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« Reply #87 on: September 14, 2013, 08:08:09 PM »


firstly you don't know what you are talking about
secondly , you don't know what you are talking about
thirdly, you just don't have a clue of what you are talking about
are you a mason?

First, I do know what I am talking about, because I actually study topics that interest me from as much as a non-biased view as possible instead of just jumping on the hate-monger bandwagon.

Second, see above. I wanted to find out why everybody always spoke ill of the Masons so I read the books people always love to cite. I found out that they do what Protestants do best, pick and choose passages.

Third, see above two. Also, I took the time to talk to actual Masons to see what they actually believed concerning the writings of Albert Pike. Many had no clue who he was. Those who do know who Pike is never even came to the conclusion that Satan is the "Masonic God." Some of these people were only members of the Blue Lodge, some were York Rite, and others still Scottish Rite (a few 32nd and 33rd degree Masons). If these people don't know what they are talking about then who does? And please spare me the, "Of course they didn't tell you all of their secrets," speech; don't you think these people would be smart enough to leave in droves once they found out who they were supposedly worshiping?

Am I a mason? No, I don't work with stone.
I found one of their passages about Lucifer could easily be read to oppose or reinterpret Lucifer, but there are enough other passages favoring him.

It is hard to know for sure how many are telling you the truth, since they aren't supposed to reveal their secrets. Did they mention drinking out of a skull? Probably not.

I've not found any favoring Lucifer in the traditional sense. What I gathered from Pike is that he was trying to rebrand the name Lucifer; instead of the name being used to denote a dark being, take it back to its original roots to describe a "light" being. He notes that it is strange for the Prince of Darkness to be called Lucifer, when Lucifer means something else entirely (light bearer/bringer, my Latin is rusty).

Any proof that they drink out of skulls? Actual proof, not somebody who heard the story from their best friend's aunt's second son who knew a top secret government agent that drank beer with the Grand Poombah?
As a matter of fact, a mason gave me this the other day.  It is quite handy when drinking sweet tea. Also, that would have been perfect for some D&D campaigns I used to run.



Ok, and did he tell you that he used those in rituals, or did he make it seem that way? Or was this just a novelty item that he had laying around for LARPing?

Quote
A kapala (Sanskrit for "skull") or skullcup is a cup made from a human skull used as a ritual implement (bowl) in both Hindu Tantra and Buddhist Tantra (Vajrayana). Especially in Tibet, they were often carved or elaborately mounted with precious metals and jewels.

The kapala is considered a legacy of ancient traditions of human sacrifice. In Tibetan monasteries it is used symbolically to hold bread or dough cakes, torma, and wine instead of blood and flesh as offerings to wrathful deities, such as the ferocious Dharmapāla ("defender of the faith"). The dough cakes are shaped to resemble human eyes, ears and tongues. The kapala is made in the form of a skull specially collected and prepared. It is elaborately anointed and consecrated before use. The cup is also elaborately decorated and kept in a triangular pedestal. The heavily embossed cup is usually made of silver-gilt bronze with lid shaped like a skull and with a handle made in the form of a thunderbolt.[2]

Kapalas are used mainly for esoteric purposes such as rituals. Among the rituals using kapalas are: higher tantric meditation to achieve a transcendental state of thought and mind within the shortest possible time; libation to gods and deities to win their favor; by Tibetan Lamas as an offering bowl on the altar, filled with wine or blood as a gift to the Yidam Deity or all the Deities; and the Vajrayana empowerment ceremony.

Source



Interesting, but it in no way shows that it is used b Masons for any reason.
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« Reply #88 on: September 14, 2013, 08:15:37 PM »

Well, let me see... As I recall, it went like this.  He came over to watch football.  Things got a bit slow in the game and I asked him if he could grab me a beer.  He came back with this cup filled with goats blood.  I tried to tell him I never had goats blood, but he told me that they do it down at the lodge all the time.  I was a bit queezy myself, but he seemed to know what he was talking about, so we each had a sip.  I would say goats blood is a bit thicker than human blood and not as sweet.  All in all, I prefer the human blood.  I'm not sure if it could be said it was used in a ritual.  It sounded more as if drinking blood from it was more of a social thing. If it had been a secret ritual, I doubt he would have allowed me to participate, not being initiated and all...
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Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
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« Reply #89 on: September 14, 2013, 08:16:38 PM »

These kapala explain why Athos is so big on saving the skulls of monks who pass away...  Shocked
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