Author Topic: Illuminati & Freemasons  (Read 95868 times)

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Offline Rambam

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #450 on: February 21, 2014, 04:11:53 PM »
C'mon yeshuaisiam. This doesn't prove a thing other than Washington D.C. has some diagonal streets. You want to see a city that actually has a square and compasses, plainly displayed -- so you don't even have to squint?  Then, take a look at downtown Sandusky, Ohio.  Even if the street plan of Sandusky were explicitly designed by a Mason with Masonic symbolism -- which is was -- it doesn't prove the existence of an "outside" Masonic group and an "inside" Masonic group.

I just don't see how diabolic civil engineering = Satanism. I've met a few civil engineers in my life. They're big on pocket protectors.



Well, but that's just it, yeshuaisiam -- at what point, exactly, do outsider masons know what insider masons are up to? When are they 'welcomed' into the club, for real?

If anyone knew that the 'insiders' exist, it would have been me -- either I would have been in it, or I would have had fathers/grandfathers who were in it.

People on the outside say what you're saying, a lot. So, how on earth do people on the 'outside' know about the 'inside,' but people who are actually Masons have no idea about the 'inside.'

I just think you're giving Masons too much credit. Most of them aren't that smart. If society were a grocery store, most Masons would feel at home in the produce section.

ROFL! That kind of looney tripe keeps them going, providing myth for advertising.

If you were even speaking to me (as I had the last several posts)
This kind of stuff is what amazes me about OC.net

If you are going to laugh and call names, at least you could come up with supporting arguments to back that claim.   I posted sources, excerpts, photos.

Would  you like me to post over 100 photos of corporate freemasony, government freemasonry, music freemasonry, television freemasonry?

Oh, but it's still all funny and looney.... Because it's not real.   You know, eyeballs floating over pyramids - we just wake up one day and stick it on the money for no reason.

I called you no name. That's the trouble with hysteria- it grows on itself.

Somewhere in my past 9500 or whatever posts I detailed my time in the Blue Lodge. I do not NEED to debunk you for my purposes.

Fair enough, but you missed my posts obviously.    You also missed the excerpt link I posted from Pike.  Outsider Masons have no idea what insider masons are doing.  That's why he compared it to an onion and its layers.

Albert Pike said exactly that.  This is an insider who knows about outsider masons.  He wasn't speaking of the small town lodges.  You are also forgetting the number of mason presidents, congressman, and bankers.

Okay try this out. (Google maps)
Go here:  (don't scroll around)


You'll see the "A" marker.  This is the white house.

Look just a bit above the "A" marker (about half inch on my 17" screen) and you'll see what looks like a small circle.   Off to the left and around the circle you will see a huge pyramid.

It looks very similar to the back of the dollar.

Place the very tip of your mouse cursor into the center of the "eye circle" and double click.  Click again and again till you are at street level.

You end up right here:
http://goo.gl/maps/HaF7C

The building with the white roof is the Masonic Grand Lodge.

Ironic that sits in the middle of the "eye of the pyramid".

Now, back off a bit and scroll down, and you'll see the masonic Eastern Star.
http://goo.gl/maps/TyP0o  (pentagram as inverted)

There is no way somebody can tell me that most masons are not "smart".  It's not the little guys that matter to me (even though I think they are caught up in something wrong).    There are very many incredibly powerful masons.  Who can deny our entire national capital in the United States isn't laid out in Masonry?  Even our White House is at the bottom of the Pentagram.     If you really look at the scale of the links I gave, this thing is HUGE geographically.   Perfectly laid out and designed.  All architecture in arguably one of the most "secure cities" in the world is all mason.

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #451 on: February 21, 2014, 04:12:29 PM »
I tell you what, if you can point to the exact moment "outsider" Masons become "insider" Masons -- whether it's a particular degree or organization or rite or whatever -- then I'll buy into what you're saying.

It's funny how conspiracy theories work, isn't it? I mean, I like conspiracy theories as much as the next guy. I even believe in some of them. Magic bullet? No way there was a single shooter! Murrah Building? No way anfo took that building down!

But then, some conspiracy theories are a little too far out there, even for me. International Jewish Conspiracy? No way. Aliens at Area 51. No way.

The Mason thing is one of these things. I probably conferred the Knight of Malta degree on 500 guys. I've been at dozens of Master Mason conferrals. You know who's receiving these degrees? There were lots of accountants, contractors, small-business owners, and the occasional small-town banker. No presidents. No international financiers. One of my best buddies was Grand Master of Oklahoma a couple of years ago -- he installed garage doors for a living.

I was a member of a couple of Blue Lodges here, and while I was senior warden in one of them, we made a new rule that you had to wear tuxedos during degree conferrals. You want to know why? Because we thought it looked cool. We also stuck a plastic skull in the preparation room. Because it looked cool.

If I hadn't been part of this shadowy world for so long, I might agree with you, yeshuaisiam. There's lots of creepy stuff out there, but creepy doesn't equal Masonic -- you're giving them far too much credit. But hey, no one's going to convince you otherwise, just like nobody's going to convince me that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone.



I'm still trying to figure out how this is a "Conspiracy Theory"?

On what?  I didn't post any type of theory on an even that happened or something.

There are 9/11 truth conspiracy theories.  There are JFK conspiracy theories.


I'm posting mere facts on the Masons.  There is no conspiracy here.  It's in their own books, in their books, speeches, and photos.  There was no agenda completed, there was no "event" that took place.
It's simply laying out what exists.

I think the only thing is people just can't imagine that seemingly "good upstanding people" can be Luciferians.

I don't believe it works like that from my research.

What it looks like is people of status are tapped into the insider masons and join.  It's doesn't appear a situation where the mail room guy works his way to CEO.    I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but the recruitment of powerful people into the organization filled with other powerful people seems to be the norm.

What is your research? Online ex mason websites who got saved, learnt a bit of html, made a website that looks like 1996 and post how satanic the frat is?

Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #452 on: February 21, 2014, 04:13:52 PM »
So if we're defining an 'insider' Mason is a scheming Satanist, that means I've got a father, grandfather, two uncles, and a barber who are scheming Satanists. There are just too many 'White' caps for this to possibly be the line of demarcation.

I figure the burden's on yesuhaisiam. He's the one stating these two groups exist. It helps him discount the word of men who have actually been on the inside and know better. If he/she can prove a line of demarcation, I'll 'eat my hat.'   



I tell you what, if you can point to the exact moment "outsider" Masons become "insider" Masons -- whether it's a particular degree or organization or rite or whatever -- then I'll buy into what you're saying.
I suppose if 33 degrees is the main number for them, perhaps this is it? That is, when you have completed the 33 degrees, you have completed it?

Granted, there are 360 degrees in a circle.

"The Blue Degrees are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the Initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them. Their true explication is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry." (Morals and Dogma, p.819)

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Offline rakovsky

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #453 on: February 21, 2014, 04:14:49 PM »
It's like how highschool or elementary kids make cliques. They invite friends and some people are on the inside.
4th degree is more inside than 3rd, 32nd is more inside than 4th, 33 is inside of them. What is 33rd like? Is there more?
« Last Edit: February 21, 2014, 04:16:03 PM by rakovsky »
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Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #454 on: February 21, 2014, 04:15:12 PM »

I just don't see how diabolic civil engineering = Satanism. I've met a few civil engineers in my life. They're big on pocket protectors.





oh....but this theory explains so much...about so many things....roads suck, building heat is never even....it's a worldwide plot by engineers.....after all...even Satan must have some sort of cleanliness rules...pocket protectors could be very import.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2014, 04:15:59 PM by DeniseDenise »
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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #455 on: February 21, 2014, 04:19:14 PM »
I tell you what, if you can point to the exact moment "outsider" Masons become "insider" Masons -- whether it's a particular degree or organization or rite or whatever -- then I'll buy into what you're saying.

It's funny how conspiracy theories work, isn't it? I mean, I like conspiracy theories as much as the next guy. I even believe in some of them. Magic bullet? No way there was a single shooter! Murrah Building? No way anfo took that building down!

But then, some conspiracy theories are a little too far out there, even for me. International Jewish Conspiracy? No way. Aliens at Area 51. No way.

The Mason thing is one of these things. I probably conferred the Knight of Malta degree on 500 guys. I've been at dozens of Master Mason conferrals. You know who's receiving these degrees? There were lots of accountants, contractors, small-business owners, and the occasional small-town banker. No presidents. No international financiers. One of my best buddies was Grand Master of Oklahoma a couple of years ago -- he installed garage doors for a living.

I was a member of a couple of Blue Lodges here, and while I was senior warden in one of them, we made a new rule that you had to wear tuxedos during degree conferrals. You want to know why? Because we thought it looked cool. We also stuck a plastic skull in the preparation room. Because it looked cool.

If I hadn't been part of this shadowy world for so long, I might agree with you, yeshuaisiam. There's lots of creepy stuff out there, but creepy doesn't equal Masonic -- you're giving them far too much credit. But hey, no one's going to convince you otherwise, just like nobody's going to convince me that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone.



I'm still trying to figure out how this is a "Conspiracy Theory"?

On what?  I didn't post any type of theory on an even that happened or something.

There are 9/11 truth conspiracy theories.  There are JFK conspiracy theories.


I'm posting mere facts on the Masons.  There is no conspiracy here.  It's in their own books, in their books, speeches, and photos.  There was no agenda completed, there was no "event" that took place.
It's simply laying out what exists.

I think the only thing is people just can't imagine that seemingly "good upstanding people" can be Luciferians.

I don't believe it works like that from my research.

What it looks like is people of status are tapped into the insider masons and join.  It's doesn't appear a situation where the mail room guy works his way to CEO.    I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but the recruitment of powerful people into the organization filled with other powerful people seems to be the norm.

What is your research? Online ex mason websites who got saved, learnt a bit of html, made a website that looks like 1996 and post how satanic the frat is?


Starting in 1998 I began reading many books on freemasonry, including morals and dogma.  I learnt a lot about their symbolism and the meanings through books.   I also did speak with several masons and have run public presentations on masons (which had mason present).

The funny thing is people on this thread are acting like I'm making this stuff up.  It's sitting there in black and white in their books.  Masonry is all over the place.  It is an immensely powerful religion.

I don't know if the impression people have is that Satanists (Luceferians) should be all scary and dark looking (like Anton Levey or whatever).   Sometimes they have on a suit and tie and can be friendly people.
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Offline peterchristian

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #456 on: February 21, 2014, 04:20:50 PM »
What is the Orthodox position about this and how does it compare with Yeshuaisiam's position?

The official statement begins:
"Freemasonry is not simply a philanthropic union or a philosophical school, but constitutes a mystagogical system which reminds us of the ancient heathen mystery-religions and cults—from which it descends and is their continuation and regeneration.''
http://orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/masonry.aspx

Freemasonry uses philanthropy as its cover to conceal its dark secrets.  There are some here who are obstinately refusing to hear the Church on this issue.
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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #457 on: February 21, 2014, 04:21:16 PM »
It's like how highschool or elementary kids make cliques. They invite friends and some people are on the inside.
4th degree is more inside than 3rd, 32nd is more inside than 4th, 33 is inside of them. What is 33rd like? Is there more?

I think it's more like:
There are the small town hub-bub guys that get their buddies to join.

Then:
There are the larger town guys that get in city governments and give contracts to their buddies.


Then:
There are powerful elite who are in governments, corporations, and banking sectors that work together for global power.
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #458 on: February 21, 2014, 04:21:29 PM »
It's not always our body we have to worry about them "getting".

Sure, but I don't see why a thorough knowledge of Illuminati and Freemason conspiracy theories is necessary to guard against this.  Maybe it's necessary for you, but we have the gospel, its proper interpretation, the holy mysteries, prayer, fasting, charity, ascetic labours, etc.  If we focused on Christ, we would be alright.  But this, too, is a deception of the devil...to have us worry about smoke and mirrors in the name of Christ in order to keep us away from Christ.  
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #459 on: February 21, 2014, 04:22:23 PM »
What is the Orthodox position about this and how does it compare with Yeshuaisiam's position?

The official statement begins:
"Freemasonry is not simply a philanthropic union or a philosophical school, but constitutes a mystagogical system which reminds us of the ancient heathen mystery-religions and cults—from which it descends and is their continuation and regeneration.''
http://orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/masonry.aspx

Freemasonry uses philanthropy as its cover to conceal its dark secrets.  There are some here who are obstinately refusing to hear the Church on this issue.

I absolutely agree with the Eastern Orthodox position on this.
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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #460 on: February 21, 2014, 04:26:58 PM »
It's not always our body we have to worry about them "getting".

Sure, but I don't see why a thorough knowledge of Illuminati and Freemason conspiracy theories is necessary to guard against this.  Maybe it's necessary for you, but we have the gospel, its proper interpretation, the holy mysteries, prayer, fasting, charity, ascetic labours, etc.  If we focused on Christ, we would be alright.  But this, too, is a deception of the devil...to have us worry about smoke and mirrors in the name of Christ in order to keep us away from Christ.  

I know what you are saying and I do agree some.  We can have many good things, but you left out the reflection on our own sins and not being of the world.

There is a "vigilance" the scripture speaks of.   We want to be "watchmen" and be on the lookout for wrong too.  It also works to evangelize the scriptures to others when you can show them  how messed up some things are.

I actually came to knowledge of the masons by somebody showing me stuff about them at first.   My lengthy research on them absolutely concurs with the EO position cited above.

While I know we should not focus on them to distract us from Christ, sometimes the focus on bad & violent things can bring us to Christ.  Crucifixion of Christ, Martyrdom, etc.
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Offline Rambam

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #461 on: February 21, 2014, 04:30:31 PM »
Goodness McGracious, yeshuaisiam.

In your research, did you ever come across Laurence Dermott and the Ahiman Rezon? He was the guy who blamed the London Grand Lodge for de-Christianizing Masonry. Do you know the York Rite is practically the opposite of the Scottish Rite? Pike even takes some pot shots at the Yorkies in M&D -- here, let me go look it up -- yeah, it's right here on pages 5, 9, and 16 -- he just loathes the York Rite. His hate practically drips off the page.

So, here's where we're at:

We can agree that the Scottish Rite is really kooky. Some of the guys who lead the Scottish Rite are also kooky. Agreed.

But where we disagree: the York Rite (which includes the Blue Lodge) is not so kooky. We also disagree that Pike is some sort of monolithic representative of Masonry -- he isn't. His obvious scorn for the York Rite -- in the pages of Morals & Dogma -- demonstrate that there is clear contention within Masonry. And we also disagree on whether Masons, by and large, are powerful. I say they aren't. But you've got Gerald Ford in your corner, so who knows.



I tell you what, if you can point to the exact moment "outsider" Masons become "insider" Masons -- whether it's a particular degree or organization or rite or whatever -- then I'll buy into what you're saying.

It's funny how conspiracy theories work, isn't it? I mean, I like conspiracy theories as much as the next guy. I even believe in some of them. Magic bullet? No way there was a single shooter! Murrah Building? No way anfo took that building down!

But then, some conspiracy theories are a little too far out there, even for me. International Jewish Conspiracy? No way. Aliens at Area 51. No way.

The Mason thing is one of these things. I probably conferred the Knight of Malta degree on 500 guys. I've been at dozens of Master Mason conferrals. You know who's receiving these degrees? There were lots of accountants, contractors, small-business owners, and the occasional small-town banker. No presidents. No international financiers. One of my best buddies was Grand Master of Oklahoma a couple of years ago -- he installed garage doors for a living.

I was a member of a couple of Blue Lodges here, and while I was senior warden in one of them, we made a new rule that you had to wear tuxedos during degree conferrals. You want to know why? Because we thought it looked cool. We also stuck a plastic skull in the preparation room. Because it looked cool.

If I hadn't been part of this shadowy world for so long, I might agree with you, yeshuaisiam. There's lots of creepy stuff out there, but creepy doesn't equal Masonic -- you're giving them far too much credit. But hey, no one's going to convince you otherwise, just like nobody's going to convince me that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone.



I'm still trying to figure out how this is a "Conspiracy Theory"?

On what?  I didn't post any type of theory on an even that happened or something.

There are 9/11 truth conspiracy theories.  There are JFK conspiracy theories.


I'm posting mere facts on the Masons.  There is no conspiracy here.  It's in their own books, in their books, speeches, and photos.  There was no agenda completed, there was no "event" that took place.
It's simply laying out what exists.

I think the only thing is people just can't imagine that seemingly "good upstanding people" can be Luciferians.

I don't believe it works like that from my research.

What it looks like is people of status are tapped into the insider masons and join.  It's doesn't appear a situation where the mail room guy works his way to CEO.    I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but the recruitment of powerful people into the organization filled with other powerful people seems to be the norm.

What is your research? Online ex mason websites who got saved, learnt a bit of html, made a website that looks like 1996 and post how satanic the frat is?


Starting in 1998 I began reading many books on freemasonry, including morals and dogma.  I learnt a lot about their symbolism and the meanings through books.   I also did speak with several masons and have run public presentations on masons (which had mason present).

The funny thing is people on this thread are acting like I'm making this stuff up.  It's sitting there in black and white in their books.  Masonry is all over the place.  It is an immensely powerful religion.

I don't know if the impression people have is that Satanists (Luceferians) should be all scary and dark looking (like Anton Levey or whatever).   Sometimes they have on a suit and tie and can be friendly people.

Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #462 on: February 21, 2014, 04:31:29 PM »

I just don't see how diabolic civil engineering = Satanism. I've met a few civil engineers in my life. They're big on pocket protectors.





oh....but this theory explains so much...about so many things....roads suck, building heat is never even....it's a worldwide plot by engineers.....after all...even Satan must have some sort of cleanliness rules...pocket protectors could be very import.

It connects the masons with the Illuminati completely.  It also shows that the masonic religion (Eastern Orthodox position that it is a religion) is very powerful.   Arguable the United States is the most powerful nation in the world, and our capital city has the Illuminati Pyramid designed right in the roads.  The White House being on the bottom of the Eastern Star.

I'm not speaking of "satanists can be engineers", of course they can.

I'm speaking of the power of the masons.

The argument works together that masons=satanists=powerful when you actually read their own books, read their writings, look at their ceremonies, look at their blood oaths, and look at their rituals.
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Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #463 on: February 21, 2014, 04:34:03 PM »
It's not always our body we have to worry about them "getting".

Sure, but I don't see why a thorough knowledge of Illuminati and Freemason conspiracy theories is necessary to guard against this.  Maybe it's necessary for you, but we have the gospel, its proper interpretation, the holy mysteries, prayer, fasting, charity, ascetic labours, etc.  If we focused on Christ, we would be alright.  But this, too, is a deception of the devil...to have us worry about smoke and mirrors in the name of Christ in order to keep us away from Christ.  


I am gonna go with Mor on this one....between the time you have obviously spent researching this...and the time you spend doing anti-orthodox apologetics research.....seems to me, and i mean this kindly, that there is an awful lot of 'explore the negative' in your areas of reasearch/interest...

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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #464 on: February 21, 2014, 04:35:57 PM »
Goodness McGracious, yeshuaisiam.

In your research, did you ever come across Laurence Dermott and the Ahiman Rezon? He was the guy who blamed the London Grand Lodge for de-Christianizing Masonry. Do you know the York Rite is practically the opposite of the Scottish Rite? Pike even takes some pot shots at the Yorkies in M&D -- here, let me go look it up -- yeah, it's right here on pages 5, 9, and 16 -- he just loathes the York Rite. His hate practically drips off the page.

So, here's where we're at:

We can agree that the Scottish Rite is really kooky. Some of the guys who lead the Scottish Rite are also kooky. Agreed.

But where we disagree: the York Rite (which includes the Blue Lodge) is not so kooky. We also disagree that Pike is some sort of monolithic representative of Masonry -- he isn't. His obvious scorn for the York Rite -- in the pages of Morals & Dogma -- demonstrate that there is clear contention within Masonry. And we also disagree on whether Masons, by and large, are powerful. I say they aren't. But you've got Gerald Ford in your corner, so who knows.



I tell you what, if you can point to the exact moment "outsider" Masons become "insider" Masons -- whether it's a particular degree or organization or rite or whatever -- then I'll buy into what you're saying.

It's funny how conspiracy theories work, isn't it? I mean, I like conspiracy theories as much as the next guy. I even believe in some of them. Magic bullet? No way there was a single shooter! Murrah Building? No way anfo took that building down!

But then, some conspiracy theories are a little too far out there, even for me. International Jewish Conspiracy? No way. Aliens at Area 51. No way.

The Mason thing is one of these things. I probably conferred the Knight of Malta degree on 500 guys. I've been at dozens of Master Mason conferrals. You know who's receiving these degrees? There were lots of accountants, contractors, small-business owners, and the occasional small-town banker. No presidents. No international financiers. One of my best buddies was Grand Master of Oklahoma a couple of years ago -- he installed garage doors for a living.

I was a member of a couple of Blue Lodges here, and while I was senior warden in one of them, we made a new rule that you had to wear tuxedos during degree conferrals. You want to know why? Because we thought it looked cool. We also stuck a plastic skull in the preparation room. Because it looked cool.

If I hadn't been part of this shadowy world for so long, I might agree with you, yeshuaisiam. There's lots of creepy stuff out there, but creepy doesn't equal Masonic -- you're giving them far too much credit. But hey, no one's going to convince you otherwise, just like nobody's going to convince me that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone.



I'm still trying to figure out how this is a "Conspiracy Theory"?

On what?  I didn't post any type of theory on an even that happened or something.

There are 9/11 truth conspiracy theories.  There are JFK conspiracy theories.


I'm posting mere facts on the Masons.  There is no conspiracy here.  It's in their own books, in their books, speeches, and photos.  There was no agenda completed, there was no "event" that took place.
It's simply laying out what exists.

I think the only thing is people just can't imagine that seemingly "good upstanding people" can be Luciferians.

I don't believe it works like that from my research.

What it looks like is people of status are tapped into the insider masons and join.  It's doesn't appear a situation where the mail room guy works his way to CEO.    I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but the recruitment of powerful people into the organization filled with other powerful people seems to be the norm.

What is your research? Online ex mason websites who got saved, learnt a bit of html, made a website that looks like 1996 and post how satanic the frat is?


Starting in 1998 I began reading many books on freemasonry, including morals and dogma.  I learnt a lot about their symbolism and the meanings through books.   I also did speak with several masons and have run public presentations on masons (which had mason present).

The funny thing is people on this thread are acting like I'm making this stuff up.  It's sitting there in black and white in their books.  Masonry is all over the place.  It is an immensely powerful religion.

I don't know if the impression people have is that Satanists (Luceferians) should be all scary and dark looking (like Anton Levey or whatever).   Sometimes they have on a suit and tie and can be friendly people.

So Masonry has blood oaths yet was blamed for being "un-Christian".  Interesting.

Morals and Dogma written by Pike is a highly revered book by most freemasons.  He was also a man pardoned by the President of the United States who was also a mason.

And trust me, the list is MUCH bigger than Gerald Ford.
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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #465 on: February 21, 2014, 04:37:50 PM »
It's not always our body we have to worry about them "getting".

Sure, but I don't see why a thorough knowledge of Illuminati and Freemason conspiracy theories is necessary to guard against this.  Maybe it's necessary for you, but we have the gospel, its proper interpretation, the holy mysteries, prayer, fasting, charity, ascetic labours, etc.  If we focused on Christ, we would be alright.  But this, too, is a deception of the devil...to have us worry about smoke and mirrors in the name of Christ in order to keep us away from Christ.  


I am gonna go with Mor on this one....between the time you have obviously spent researching this...and the time you spend doing anti-orthodox apologetics research.....seems to me, and i mean this kindly, that there is an awful lot of 'explore the negative' in your areas of reasearch/interest...



It's deductive reasoning.   Sometimes it's easier to cross stuff out to understand the truth better. 
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Offline peterchristian

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #466 on: February 21, 2014, 04:39:04 PM »
What do you think about this:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,55192.msg1083339.html#msg1083339
Well I'm afraid that for those who may still be in denial or are ignorant concerning the matter, the Orthodox Church calls for repentance from any who are affiliated with masonry and desire full communion with Christ's holy Church:  

"Therefore, all who have become involved in the initiations of masonic mysteries must from this moment sever all relations with masonic lodges and activities, being sure that they are thereby of a certainty renewing their links with our one Lord and Savior which were weakened by ignorance and by a wrong sense of values. The Assembly of the Bishops of the Church of Greece expects this particularly and with love from the initiates of the lodges, being convinced that most of them have received masonic initiation not realizing that by it they were passing into another religion, but on the contrary from ignorance, thinking that they had done nothing contrary to the faith of their fathers. Recommending them to the sympathy, and in no wise to the hostility or hatred of the faithful children of the Church, the Assembly of the Bishops calls them to pray with her from the heart in Christian love, that the one Lord Jesus Christ "the way, the truth and the life" may illumine and return to the truth who in ignorance have gone astray." Official Statement, Church of Greece.
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Offline Rambam

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #467 on: February 21, 2014, 04:40:41 PM »
Well, rock on, my man. A fellow named Karl Weick says that "Believing is seeing." Can't argue with that.

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #468 on: February 21, 2014, 04:41:53 PM »
It's not always our body we have to worry about them "getting".

Sure, but I don't see why a thorough knowledge of Illuminati and Freemason conspiracy theories is necessary to guard against this.  Maybe it's necessary for you, but we have the gospel, its proper interpretation, the holy mysteries, prayer, fasting, charity, ascetic labours, etc.  If we focused on Christ, we would be alright.  But this, too, is a deception of the devil...to have us worry about smoke and mirrors in the name of Christ in order to keep us away from Christ.  


I am gonna go with Mor on this one....between the time you have obviously spent researching this...and the time you spend doing anti-orthodox apologetics research.....seems to me, and i mean this kindly, that there is an awful lot of 'explore the negative' in your areas of reasearch/interest...



It's deductive reasoning.   Sometimes it's easier to cross stuff out to understand the truth better. 

or just avoid things you already know....but focusing on a bunch of random things......that really are not spiritually beneficial. Focus on the Prize, not all the other stuff around.

Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, 14I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. 15Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you;…
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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #469 on: February 21, 2014, 04:42:41 PM »
What do you think about this:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,55192.msg1083339.html#msg1083339
Well I'm afraid that for those who may still be in denial or are ignorant concerning the matter, the Orthodox Church calls for repentance from any who are affiliated with masonry and desire full communion with Christ's holy Church:  

"Therefore, all who have become involved in the initiations of masonic mysteries must from this moment sever all relations with masonic lodges and activities, being sure that they are thereby of a certainty renewing their links with our one Lord and Savior which were weakened by ignorance and by a wrong sense of values. The Assembly of the Bishops of the Church of Greece expects this particularly and with love from the initiates of the lodges, being convinced that most of them have received masonic initiation not realizing that by it they were passing into another religion, but on the contrary from ignorance, thinking that they had done nothing contrary to the faith of their fathers. Recommending them to the sympathy, and in no wise to the hostility or hatred of the faithful children of the Church, the Assembly of the Bishops calls them to pray with her from the heart in Christian love, that the one Lord Jesus Christ "the way, the truth and the life" may illumine and return to the truth who in ignorance have gone astray." Official Statement, Church of Greece.

Wow I was JUST about to post that ^

Hopefully this will help some Orthodox Christians understand more about masonry seeing these positions.  Even down to calling it another religion and that "outsiders/initiates" don't know what they are getting in to.
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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #470 on: February 21, 2014, 04:43:59 PM »
It's not always our body we have to worry about them "getting".

Sure, but I don't see why a thorough knowledge of Illuminati and Freemason conspiracy theories is necessary to guard against this.  Maybe it's necessary for you, but we have the gospel, its proper interpretation, the holy mysteries, prayer, fasting, charity, ascetic labours, etc.  If we focused on Christ, we would be alright.  But this, too, is a deception of the devil...to have us worry about smoke and mirrors in the name of Christ in order to keep us away from Christ.  


I am gonna go with Mor on this one....between the time you have obviously spent researching this...and the time you spend doing anti-orthodox apologetics research.....seems to me, and i mean this kindly, that there is an awful lot of 'explore the negative' in your areas of reasearch/interest...



It's deductive reasoning.   Sometimes it's easier to cross stuff out to understand the truth better. 

or just avoid things you already know....but focusing on a bunch of random things......that really are not spiritually beneficial. Focus on the Prize, not all the other stuff around.

Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, 14I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. 15Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you;…


It is focusing on the prize.   Otherwise there would be no EO positions on the subject - but there are - and for a reason.
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Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #471 on: February 21, 2014, 04:44:42 PM »
I guess we will be tossing all actors, performers and others condemned by various canons (made in other times, for other reasons) out of the Church next.

This thread would be even funnier if not so pitiful.
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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #472 on: February 21, 2014, 04:45:50 PM »
It's not always our body we have to worry about them "getting".

Sure, but I don't see why a thorough knowledge of Illuminati and Freemason conspiracy theories is necessary to guard against this.  Maybe it's necessary for you, but we have the gospel, its proper interpretation, the holy mysteries, prayer, fasting, charity, ascetic labours, etc.  If we focused on Christ, we would be alright.  But this, too, is a deception of the devil...to have us worry about smoke and mirrors in the name of Christ in order to keep us away from Christ.  


I am gonna go with Mor on this one....between the time you have obviously spent researching this...and the time you spend doing anti-orthodox apologetics research.....seems to me, and i mean this kindly, that there is an awful lot of 'explore the negative' in your areas of reasearch/interest...



It's deductive reasoning.   Sometimes it's easier to cross stuff out to understand the truth better. 

or just avoid things you already know....but focusing on a bunch of random things......that really are not spiritually beneficial. Focus on the Prize, not all the other stuff around.

Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, 14I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. 15Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you;…


It is focusing on the prize.   Otherwise there would be no EO positions on the subject - but there are - and for a reason.


No argument there.....I am only saying that you spend a lot of time trying to be a font of info to stop others from making what you feel are 'mistakes' and perhaps not as much time on -you- and figuring out where you stand with God and all the issues your background has caused.

All opinions expressed by myself are quite tragically my own, and not those of any other poster or wall hangings.

Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #473 on: February 21, 2014, 04:47:34 PM »
It's not always our body we have to worry about them "getting".

Sure, but I don't see why a thorough knowledge of Illuminati and Freemason conspiracy theories is necessary to guard against this.  Maybe it's necessary for you, but we have the gospel, its proper interpretation, the holy mysteries, prayer, fasting, charity, ascetic labours, etc.  If we focused on Christ, we would be alright.  But this, too, is a deception of the devil...to have us worry about smoke and mirrors in the name of Christ in order to keep us away from Christ.  


I am gonna go with Mor on this one....between the time you have obviously spent researching this...and the time you spend doing anti-orthodox apologetics research.....seems to me, and i mean this kindly, that there is an awful lot of 'explore the negative' in your areas of reasearch/interest...



It's deductive reasoning.   Sometimes it's easier to cross stuff out to understand the truth better. 

or just avoid things you already know....but focusing on a bunch of random things......that really are not spiritually beneficial. Focus on the Prize, not all the other stuff around.

Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, 14I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. 15Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you;…


It is focusing on the prize.   Otherwise there would be no EO positions on the subject - but there are - and for a reason.


No argument there.....I am only saying that you spend a lot of time trying to be a font of info to stop others from making what you feel are 'mistakes' and perhaps not as much time on -you- and figuring out where you stand with God and all the issues your background has caused.



You are correct.  I was just relaying what I learned here.
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #474 on: February 21, 2014, 04:49:06 PM »
It's not always our body we have to worry about them "getting".

Sure, but I don't see why a thorough knowledge of Illuminati and Freemason conspiracy theories is necessary to guard against this.  Maybe it's necessary for you, but we have the gospel, its proper interpretation, the holy mysteries, prayer, fasting, charity, ascetic labours, etc.  If we focused on Christ, we would be alright.  But this, too, is a deception of the devil...to have us worry about smoke and mirrors in the name of Christ in order to keep us away from Christ.  

I know what you are saying and I do agree some.  We can have many good things, but you left out the reflection on our own sins and not being of the world.

I didn't, I just lumped them under "ascetic labours".  

Quote
There is a "vigilance" the scripture speaks of.   We want to be "watchmen" and be on the lookout for wrong too.  It also works to evangelize the scriptures to others when you can show them  how messed up some things are.

Sure, but the sort of vigilance you are advocating here is more than just being aware in order to protect yourself or others.  What conspiracy theorists do is like watching pornography in order to protect oneself from the assault of fornication.  You're doing it wrong.

Quote
While I know we should not focus on them to distract us from Christ, sometimes the focus on bad & violent things can bring us to Christ.  Crucifixion of Christ, Martyrdom, etc.

We don't focus on "bad and violent things" to bring us to Christ, we focus on Christ to see how he transforms those bad things and brings good from them through them.  
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

Quote
The erection of one’s rod counts as a form of glory (Theophylaktos of Ohrid, A Defense of Eunuchs, p. 329).

Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #475 on: February 21, 2014, 04:49:38 PM »
I guess we will be tossing all actors, performers and others condemned by various canons (made in other times, for other reasons) out of the Church next.

This thread would be even funnier if not so pitiful.

I don't see what is so special about actors or performers.  They are still to follow the will of God and should not be promoting sin to the masses.  (the ones who do)
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Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #476 on: February 21, 2014, 04:55:09 PM »
I guess we will be tossing all actors, performers and others condemned by various canons (made in other times, for other reasons) out of the Church next.

This thread would be even funnier if not so pitiful.

I don't see what is so special about actors or performers.  They are still to follow the will of God and should not be promoting sin to the masses.  (the ones who do)


But there are CANONS (far heavier than what is quoted against masonry) against them. You've a selective, and apparently not-well founded, bias.
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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #477 on: February 21, 2014, 05:11:16 PM »
We don't focus on "bad and violent things" to bring us to Christ, we focus on Christ to see how he transforms those bad things and brings good from them through them.  

Then we are on the very same page in many ways.  

We must see the crucifixion to see the miracle of the resurrection.    

But you are misunderstanding.
I'm not watching porn to avoid the sin of fornication.  

I'm pointing out the evils of the world to help people be not of the world.  Only a few posts above somebody talked about actors and performers which are worldly.  As Christians we were commanded to not be of the world in many place.  We were told the Children of the World are wicked in our scriptures.  

If we embrace a society of wicked worldly influence then we are being one with the world.  I will spare everybody posting hundreds of photos of the music and entertainment industry where masonic symbolism is used.  Ironically the symbols are (in music) often used in conjunction with the "Do what thy will" satanic philosophy.

I'll give one small and NOT very good example.   In the ear CRINGING song by Miley Cyrus - the lyrics http://rock.rapgenius.com/Miley-cyrus-we-cant-stop-lyrics

Over and over this song repeats to young children "we can do what we want"
http://diesemag.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/miley-cyrus-illuminati-650x427.png  She has a masonic eye symbol on her hand in the hand gesture 666.

Nearly 360,000,000 views on the official youtube channel.  This does not include any yahoo videos vemeo or any other service.

By seeing this negativity - satanism, it allows me to keep my children away from these worldly things and to justify worldly propaganda that promotes these things.  (this and a hope they know what good music is!!! :)  )  

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #478 on: February 21, 2014, 05:15:48 PM »
and guess what....


you just -introduced me- to that song...which I had not heard of.  :o


You make a bit of an assumption that all who post here have the same issues and temptations in our daily lives....and sometimes your 'protection' of us, well meant as it may be, is simply not required.

Protect your children, by all means....but there is not always a need to protect strangers on the internet.
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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #479 on: February 21, 2014, 05:19:27 PM »
I guess we will be tossing all actors, performers and others condemned by various canons (made in other times, for other reasons) out of the Church next.

This thread would be even funnier if not so pitiful.

I don't see what is so special about actors or performers.  They are still to follow the will of God and should not be promoting sin to the masses.  (the ones who do)


But there are CANONS (far heavier than what is quoted against masonry) against them. You've a selective, and apparently not-well founded, bias.

I'm going to be honest and not at all trying to divert the thread... I seriously am not.
Look over at my faith.  It looks like a TOTAL MESS, and perhaps it is - LOL LOL!!!!!
They do not really work together right?  Either I am Eastern Orthodox or I am not.... I totally understand.

The Anabaptist faith does not allow for actresses, actors, stage performers, etc.

The problem is speaking on Eastern Orthodox "ground", I don't believe the laymen or priests really say who or not can be thrown out of the church.   The bishops however.....  

That's why its a mess.   So while I may seem selective an a mess in so many ways, it is the Anabaptist faith that follows the EO canon closer than the EO church in this manner.    ??? ???  :-\

Life is confusing.
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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #480 on: February 21, 2014, 05:21:07 PM »
and guess what....


you just -introduced me- to that song...which I had not heard of.  :o


You make a bit of an assumption that all who post here have the same issues and temptations in our daily lives....and sometimes your 'protection' of us, well meant as it may be, is simply not required.

Protect your children, by all means....but there is not always a need to protect strangers on the internet.
Well I did warn you it was bad.   :P

It is worldly, and I was speaking of it in detest.  My point was showing how many millions of people are being influenced by it.   The youth in droves. 
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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #481 on: February 21, 2014, 05:23:03 PM »
and guess what....


you just -introduced me- to that song...which I had not heard of.  :o


You make a bit of an assumption that all who post here have the same issues and temptations in our daily lives....and sometimes your 'protection' of us, well meant as it may be, is simply not required.

Protect your children, by all means....but there is not always a need to protect strangers on the internet.
Well I did warn you it was bad.   :P

It is worldly, and I was speaking of it in detest.  My point was showing how many millions of people are being influenced by it.   The youth in droves. 


No...its not bad to warn...


but maybe ...given the 'mess' your spiritual state of affairs is in...per your own admission.....you should take care of you and your house first? 

All opinions expressed by myself are quite tragically my own, and not those of any other poster or wall hangings.

Offline rakovsky

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #482 on: February 21, 2014, 05:44:19 PM »
I guess we will be tossing all actors, performers and others condemned by various canons (made in other times, for other reasons) out of the Church next.

This thread would be even funnier if not so pitiful.

I don't see what is so special about actors or performers.  They are still to follow the will of God and should not be promoting sin to the masses.  (the ones who do)


But there are CANONS (far heavier than what is quoted against masonry) against them. You've a selective, and apparently not-well founded, bias.
Just ask what is the point of the canon, and is the church still following it? Has the basis for the rule still been in existence? What was changed in time to make you change your view?

The canon counts for something in considerations, even if it is not decisive.
The ocean, infinite to men, and the worlds beyond it, are directed by the same ordinances of the Lord. ~ I Clement 20

Offline peterchristian

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #483 on: February 21, 2014, 05:50:12 PM »
Well, rock on, my man. A fellow named Karl Weick says that "Believing is seeing." Can't argue with that.

There are only winners here if we love one another as He has loved us.  May the Lord bless you.
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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #484 on: February 21, 2014, 06:08:22 PM »
 Hence, we have iconography of the Holy Spirit as a dove,

Such a depiction should only be in icons of the Theophany (Baptism of Christ), as it is in this form that the Spirit became manifest at that occasion. The Holy Spirit is not a dove by nature, and the Holy Trinity is not a disembodied eye by nature.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #485 on: February 21, 2014, 06:28:16 PM »
It's like how highschool or elementary kids make cliques. They invite friends and some people are on the inside.
4th degree is more inside than 3rd, 32nd is more inside than 4th, 33 is inside of them. What is 33rd like? Is there more?

Have you read the thread. 3rd degree is the highest degree, master mason. The further degrees, even the 33rd, are not higher than the 3rd degree. They are parallel degrees not vertical degrees. A 32nd degree mason is still a 3rd degree mason. It's complicated BUT the Wikipedia article on degrees and Masonic groups like consistory, the shrine, cedars of lebanon, knights templar and what parallel degrees you have to have is accurate. The York Rite and Scottish rite both do the parallel degrees up to the 33rd. However, it takes longer in the york rite. The Scottish rite will fast track you through to 32nd degree in a weekend, at least here.
Guess what? A blue lodge guy is no higher with a 33rd degree than the guy with a 3rd degree. Why? The 33rd degree guy is a 3rd degree master mason. Also the 33rd I knew never told anyone he was that. He selflessly raised money and devouted his time to the craft and gave countless hours for charity.
No secrets there, he just loved people. He is missed. He passed unexpectedly not too long ago.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2014, 06:28:52 PM by username! »

Offline rakovsky

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #486 on: February 21, 2014, 07:19:36 PM »
Have you read the thread. 3rd degree is the highest degree, master mason.
Guess what? A blue lodge guy is no higher with a 33rd degree than the guy with a 3rd degree. Why? The 33rd degree guy is a 3rd degree master mason. Also the 33rd I knew never told anyone he was that. He selflessly raised money and devouted his time to the craft and gave countless hours for charity.
No secrets there, he just loved people. He is missed. He passed unexpectedly not too long ago.
Hi username. I know what you mean about parallel degrees and understand that a 33 may not act like he is better than others.

Perhaps I am wrong. But if 3rd degree is more inside than 1st, the name "33rd" implies to me that it is more inside than 4th.
The ocean, infinite to men, and the worlds beyond it, are directed by the same ordinances of the Lord. ~ I Clement 20

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #487 on: February 21, 2014, 07:46:51 PM »
Have you read the thread. 3rd degree is the highest degree, master mason.
Guess what? A blue lodge guy is no higher with a 33rd degree than the guy with a 3rd degree. Why? The 33rd degree guy is a 3rd degree master mason. Also the 33rd I knew never told anyone he was that. He selflessly raised money and devouted his time to the craft and gave countless hours for charity.
No secrets there, he just loved people. He is missed. He passed unexpectedly not too long ago.
Hi username. I know what you mean about parallel degrees and understand that a 33 may not act like he is better than others.

Perhaps I am wrong. But if 3rd degree is more inside than 1st, the name "33rd" implies to me that it is more inside than 4th.

More inside of what? That's your disillusion that somehow you are more in with better degrees. There are 3 degrees in masonry. Wikpedia it. Once you are 3rd degree you are a full blown mason. You are "in" at that point.

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #488 on: February 21, 2014, 07:53:29 PM »
There are 3 degrees in all masonary. The other degrees are not upward but are lateral educational degrees.

Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #489 on: February 22, 2014, 02:22:13 AM »
There are 3 degrees in all masonary. The other degrees are not upward but are lateral educational degrees.
Correct. Those 4 -33 are Shrine degrees (not part of Masonry) and are educational - no rote memorization, seecy-dogma stuff.
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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #490 on: February 22, 2014, 04:16:45 PM »
For me the degree doesn't matter. 

What matters is when many world leaders, entertainment industry, news/media, and military commanders are freemasons.  It is a religion (Orthodox position) where and Orthodox Christian may not be part of because it practices ancient mysteries (Orthodox position).

These masons in order to gain their rank swore blood oaths and work together in this secret organization.

(I am not talking about nobody's uncle bob either who was a swell guy who ran the city lodge in smalltown USA) 

They basically "rule" this world.  Their symbols are on the USD (world reserve currency), appear all over the Olympics, media, children's cartoons, music videos (a ton of them lately).

It is a luciferian religion in their own texts, by what they teach, and even by quotes from revered masonic books. 

Luciferians rule this Earth.  That's the point. 
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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #491 on: February 22, 2014, 04:18:46 PM »
There are 3 degrees in all masonary. The other degrees are not upward but are lateral educational degrees.
Correct. Those 4 -33 are Shrine degrees (not part of Masonry) and are educational - no rote memorization, seecy-dogma stuff.
I thought there is such a thing as a 32nd degree Mason, and that the SR was part of Masonry?

I am not sure what you mean by seecy-dogma stuff?
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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #492 on: February 22, 2014, 04:51:18 PM »
Freemasonary has 3 degrees

Freemasonary york or scottish rite have 4-33 degrees.

These are not hierarchical degrees.,,these are lateral educational degrees.the highest degree is the 3rd degree. Get it?

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #493 on: February 22, 2014, 05:27:23 PM »
Freemasonary has 3 degrees

Freemasonary york or scottish rite have 4-33 degrees.

These are not hierarchical degrees.,,these are lateral educational degrees.the highest degree is the 3rd degree. Get it?
Username!

OK, so you are saying that one group, the people with the most lateral education, know more things than people without that education. But just because someone who has been invited into the 33 knows more than a 3rd degree does not make him any higher.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2014, 05:29:25 PM by rakovsky »
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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #494 on: February 22, 2014, 05:49:43 PM »
Jumping back in, as username! mentioned, the degrees in the Scottish Rite and York Rite are either additional or modified continuations of Blue Lodge degrees.  But they don't indicate a "higher" or "better" level of Masonry.  At least that's made clear in their official teachings. 

And username! is also correct about the Scottish Rite and York Rite being "appendant bodies" of Freemasonry.  While they are fully Masonic (although that recognition sometimes depends on which country one is in--try telling someone in England that you are a 25 year old 32ndº Mason...) and sometimes referred to as the "universities of masonry," the higher numeric degrees are not considered higher than the Master Mason (3rd) Degree obtained in the Blue Lodge.

As far as the connections to ultra-esoteric mystery cultic rites, you can now become a Master Mason in one day.  And shortly after that, one can become a 32nd degree Scottish Rite Mason or Knight Templar (10th degree, I believe, although it's not referred to as this) in a day or so.

33rd degree Scottish Rite masons, most having usually obtained the honorific title due to length or notable service, wear white hats, and it's joked that your hair color must match the 33rd degree cap color before you may earn one.  If you ever had a striking distrust for Ernest Borgnine, you may now understand the root of this.  I think the fact that Gerald Ford was the last Masonic (and Scottish Rite) U.S. President sums things up nicely.

But just to keep the conspiracies alive, most 33rd degree Scottish Rite Masons do not actually sit on the Scottish Rite Supreme Council.  That exclusive organization is clearly where the Bahometian plots for worldwide fish fry domination occur.
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