Author Topic: Illuminati & Freemasons  (Read 95864 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Rambam

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 639
  • Send lawyers, guns, and money
Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #315 on: February 12, 2014, 04:09:19 PM »
It's* also based a great deal on the bible -- lol, not another bible thread! -- I think the oogah boogah is a distraction. Folks miss the whole point when they meditate on the meaning of the cornucopias at the top of the steward's rods.

Unfortunately, this pagany crowd seemed to be gaining ground when I was in the game. Maybe they still are.

* By "its," I mean the Blue Lodge.




The "work and goal" of Masonry is to be a social club for retirees to grouse at each other while they drink bad coffee.


This, in my opinion, is true.  At least for the last century or so.  

As I've mentioned before in this thread or a related one, there remains a small and quirky esoteric group within or on the fringes of Masonry, but most are exploring the same stuff that's been around (and largely discarded) for a long time, e.g. Rosicrucianism.  The theosophical religious studies component of the Blue Lodge and Scottish Rite are based a great deal on 18th and 19th century study, speculation, and now largely disproven "connections," e.g. the Hindu Trimurti being related to the Xtian one.

For a supposedly intellectual fraternity that prides itself in being the vanguard of studying the Seven Liberal Arts of grammar, rhetoric, logic, arithmetic, geometry, music, and astronomy, I'm not aware of its members contributing much to them in the last hundred-odd years.  Ok, Buzz Aldrin was a mason, but I'm guessing he learned his astronauting outside of the lodge.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 04:10:50 PM by Rambam »

Offline Cognomen

  • Ungrateful Biped
  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,155
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Wanderer, but Antioch and All the East
Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #316 on: February 12, 2014, 04:13:09 PM »

Maybe you can speak to something that's always bothered me about the Scottish Rite. How on earth do these old codgers, who would normally be found in their home-town Methodist, DoC, Baptist, etc., churches on Sundays, not have any problem with the junk they see going on during the typical Scottish Rite reunion? You sat through the degrees -- I don't know of any other group that combine 'crazy' with 'boring' as deftly as the Scottish Rite -- so, how does Joe Blow from Podunk, Okla. (or any small town) tolerate the that nonsense? Are they just compartmentalizing it? "Well, it's all symbolic, so who knows what it really means? Besides, I'm here for the fellowship."

I just don't understand how the run-of-the-mill good-old-boy Christian can tolerate what gets put on the stage in the typical Scottish Rite degree.

Darn good question.  I know that in some places there is a heavy dose of disclaimers, particularly before those degrees with Muslim or overtly pagan themes.

Regarding how this all supposedly squares (get it?) with Christianity, I have no idea.
If anything I have posted has been illuminating, please remember that I merely reflect the light of others...but also it's me.

Offline Rambam

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 639
  • Send lawyers, guns, and money
Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #317 on: February 12, 2014, 04:18:23 PM »
Lol. I once heard a story about the SR's Easter service. I've never seen it, but apparently, it's straight-up the Jesus passion story -- the actor playing Jesus is even hoisted into heaven at the end. After the play was over, the director of the Valley would come out and say something like "That was purely symbolic. Feel free to interpret it however you want."

That's the Scottish Rite for you.




Maybe you can speak to something that's always bothered me about the Scottish Rite. How on earth do these old codgers, who would normally be found in their home-town Methodist, DoC, Baptist, etc., churches on Sundays, not have any problem with the junk they see going on during the typical Scottish Rite reunion? You sat through the degrees -- I don't know of any other group that combine 'crazy' with 'boring' as deftly as the Scottish Rite -- so, how does Joe Blow from Podunk, Okla. (or any small town) tolerate the that nonsense? Are they just compartmentalizing it? "Well, it's all symbolic, so who knows what it really means? Besides, I'm here for the fellowship."

I just don't understand how the run-of-the-mill good-old-boy Christian can tolerate what gets put on the stage in the typical Scottish Rite degree.

Darn good question.  I know that in some places there is a heavy dose of disclaimers, particularly before those degrees with Muslim or overtly pagan themes.

Regarding how this all supposedly squares (get it?) with Christianity, I have no idea.


Offline Cognomen

  • Ungrateful Biped
  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,155
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Wanderer, but Antioch and All the East
Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #318 on: February 12, 2014, 04:20:47 PM »

Unfortunately, this pagany crowd seemed to be gaining ground when I was in the game. Maybe they still are.


I've noticed this as well, with a lot of Masons I know being pagan or quasi-pagan.  It's somewhat strange to reconcile this with Freemasonry as well.  For as all over the place as the teachings are, it does retain a very monotheistic and, in many ways "Abrahamic" outlook.  Yes, the concept of the Great/Grand Architect of the Universe is pretty vague, but worshiping some river god isn't "kosher" for Masonry either. 

Still, sophistry is a powerful force.  I knew multiple Knights Templars (a York Rite degree that requires a Christian profession) who were either not Christian or outright hostile to it.  Yet they still believed their vows were made in earnest.  Go figure.
If anything I have posted has been illuminating, please remember that I merely reflect the light of others...but also it's me.

Offline Cognomen

  • Ungrateful Biped
  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,155
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Wanderer, but Antioch and All the East
Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #319 on: February 12, 2014, 04:21:58 PM »

"That was purely symbolic. Feel free to interpret it however you want."

That's the Scottish Rite for you.


Indeed!
If anything I have posted has been illuminating, please remember that I merely reflect the light of others...but also it's me.

Offline rakovsky

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,474
  • St. Mstislav I
    • The Old Testament Prophecies of the Messiah's Resurrection and Orthodox Christianity's roots in the Holy Land
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #320 on: February 12, 2014, 04:49:52 PM »
As for the 33rd ritual -- who knows.
It's symbol is the double headed eagle like we have in Orthodoxy. However, I read that this is actually a reference to the Phoenix myth. It is called the Inspector General.

This is a short ritual from 1860, mentioning a skeleton:
http://www.stichtingargus.nl/vrijmetselarij/aasr_r33b.html

You can buy a version on the web that apparently was changed alot by Pike:
http://www.amazon.co.jp/Ordo-Ab-Chao-Original-Complete/dp/156459999X

This supposedly earlier one says it is not used:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/29253310/Secret-Ritual-of-the-33-Degree-Mason

Here is a sensationalist story:
http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/33rd_Initiation.htm

Hard to really find much though at all.
The ocean, infinite to men, and the worlds beyond it, are directed by the same ordinances of the Lord. ~ I Clement 20

Offline Rambam

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 639
  • Send lawyers, guns, and money
Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #321 on: February 12, 2014, 05:03:58 PM »
A couple of years ago, I had to visit St. Petersburg (had to ask the then-imminent father-in-law a question). Walking around the town, I was actually pretty shocked to see all the Scottish Rite insignia. Double-headed eagles -- or what Masonic 'insiders' call the "confused chicken."

Anyway, the capper was the trianagle with the "G" or, uh, "Г" engraved above the door to Kazan Cathedral. That's right out of the Scottish Rite, except theirs is a "Yod" in a triangle.

Nobody pays much heed to the 33rd on the inside -- my uncle has and my grandfather had a 'white cap' -- but its just like the rest of it, just one more degree.

The real super-elite stuff is on the Yorkie side, like the Red Cross or the Scottish Rectified and Reformed Rite. But by 'elite,' we mean mostly that you aren't allowed to wear overalls. These are all Masons, afterall.

As for the 33rd ritual -- who knows.
It's symbol is the double headed eagle like we have in Orthodoxy. However, I read that this is actually a reference to the Phoenix myth. It is called the Inspector General.

This is a short ritual from 1860, mentioning a skeleton:
http://www.stichtingargus.nl/vrijmetselarij/aasr_r33b.html

You can buy a version on the web that apparently was changed alot by Pike:
http://www.amazon.co.jp/Ordo-Ab-Chao-Original-Complete/dp/156459999X

This supposedly earlier one says it is not used:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/29253310/Secret-Ritual-of-the-33-Degree-Mason

Here is a sensationalist story:
http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/33rd_Initiation.htm

Hard to really find much though at all.

Offline rakovsky

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,474
  • St. Mstislav I
    • The Old Testament Prophecies of the Messiah's Resurrection and Orthodox Christianity's roots in the Holy Land
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #322 on: February 12, 2014, 05:13:29 PM »
A couple of years ago, I had to visit St. Petersburg (had to ask the then-imminent father-in-law a question). Walking around the town, I was actually pretty shocked to see all the Scottish Rite insignia. Double-headed eagles -- or what Masonic 'insiders' call the "confused chicken."
That's also the symbol for Byzantium and Tsarist Russia, so that explains why Petersburg used it.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 05:14:16 PM by rakovsky »
The ocean, infinite to men, and the worlds beyond it, are directed by the same ordinances of the Lord. ~ I Clement 20

Offline Sauron

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 844
Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #323 on: February 13, 2014, 11:18:16 AM »
Hey Sauron:

Maybe you can speak to something that's always bothered me about the Scottish Rite. How on earth do these old codgers, who would normally be found in their home-town Methodist, DoC, Baptist, etc., churches on Sundays, not have any problem with the junk they see going on during the typical Scottish Rite reunion? You sat through the degrees -- I don't know of any other group that combine 'crazy' with 'boring' as deftly as the Scottish Rite -- so, how does Joe Blow from Podunk, Okla. (or any small town) tolerate the that nonsense? Are they just compartmentalizing it? "Well, it's all symbolic, so who knows what it really means? Besides, I'm here for the fellowship."

I just don't understand how the run-of-the-mill good-old-boy Christian can tolerate what gets put on the stage in the typical Scottish Rite degree.

Can you explain a bit about the premise of your question, which is "what gets put on the stage in the typical Scottish Rite degree"? Have you ever seen a Scottish Rite degree?

(yes, the degrees are boring)

Offline Sauron

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 844
Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #324 on: February 13, 2014, 11:20:43 AM »
Anyway, the bit where they have the candidate stomp the pope's hat is certainly a "Whoah" moment. Though the average Methodist/Baptist probably digs it. For me, the problematic thing was they would include "Christ" alongside Mithras, Isis, Zeus, etc. Mostly, it's just casual association in the ritual, but the meaning is plain: No one has the absolute claim on religious truth.

I never saw this bit about stomping on the Pope's hat, although I had read about that on the Internet going in. Being Roman Catholic at the time, I paid very close attention to see if anything of the sort would happen. It didn't.

At night, after the degrees are over, the candidates would also gather in a room and listen to one of the SR dignitaries offer his 'take' on what they saw during the day. There's a lot of emphasis on King Solomon's turn toward pagan worship, and they use this to explain that the Temple was built to deify many different Gods.

I never saw this, either.

Offline Sauron

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 844
Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #325 on: February 13, 2014, 11:21:20 AM »
Thanks. If you were the lodge master, doesn't that mean you would have to be familiar with all the rituals, up to the 33 degree, unless you were in the York Rite?

No. That is not how it works.

Offline Sauron

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 844
Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #326 on: February 13, 2014, 11:23:52 AM »
For a supposedly intellectual fraternity that prides itself in being the vanguard of studying the Seven Liberal Arts of grammar, rhetoric, logic, arithmetic, geometry, music, and astronomy, I'm not aware of its members contributing much to them in the last hundred-odd years.  Ok, Buzz Aldrin was a mason, but I'm guessing he learned his astronauting outside of the lodge.

I could not agree more. No one cared crap for the study of art or science as far as I could tell.

Offline podkarpatska

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,732
  • Pokrov
    • ACROD (home)
Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #327 on: February 13, 2014, 11:27:19 AM »
Almost five whole months of silence on this ridiculous topic. That must be a record.

Is it me, or have we been inundated by weird topics and obscure posts of late? I think up here in North America we're sick of being cooped up due to the winter.


Offline rakovsky

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,474
  • St. Mstislav I
    • The Old Testament Prophecies of the Messiah's Resurrection and Orthodox Christianity's roots in the Holy Land
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #328 on: February 13, 2014, 11:42:43 AM »
I am looking forward to Sauron's and Rambam's stories.
The ocean, infinite to men, and the worlds beyond it, are directed by the same ordinances of the Lord. ~ I Clement 20

Offline Rambam

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 639
  • Send lawyers, guns, and money
Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #329 on: February 13, 2014, 01:17:08 PM »
Hi Sauron: 

I guess what you saw depends on which Valley you joined. In a lot of valleys, the degree's are 'communicated,' which means they don't actually do the degree, but they'll tell you what the degree was about and show you the signs and grips. I was 'fortunate' to have joined the Guthrie (Okla.) Scottish Rite -- so I saw all the degrees when I went through (over a 4-day reunion), and I worked several parts in degree teams for a few years, too.

Quick story? I was living in Dallas for a while, and I stopped by the local Scottish Rite building one night for a lodge meeting (it's pretty common for local Blue Lodges to hold their meetings in Scottish Rite buildings). The Dallas SR is a pretty beautiful building, and of course, the guys there all wanted to give me a tour of their building. I said 'yes' to a tour (why not?), and at the end, told him his building sure was nice and, by the way, I was a member at the Guthrie SR. He looked a little put out that I put him through the motions of showing off his building -- like I was making fun of him and his quaint building. Anyway, at the end of the lodge meeting, another guy asked me if I wanted a tour of the building (Masons, even symbolic ones, are obsessed with their buildings), but that first tour guide, who was standing right there, said "He's from Guthrie." So no second tour. They just knew.

All that's to say that I sort of had the 'Rolls Royce' Scottish Rite experience in my time, and may explain why I saw what you didn't. Like I said, lots of these degrees get 'communicated' in the smaller valleys. So yeah, they stomp a pope's hat. They reinacted the murder of Isis by Osiris (or was it the other way around?). These two twins have played those roles for practically 20 years now, which is kind of cool. They really do a 'confession' on stage in front of the audience. They make you drink out of a skull (or at least a plastic replica of the top of a skull). It's as bad as you think it is.

But ... It's. All. Soooo. Boring. Seriously, they turn out the lights, crank up the AC, and start putting these old-fashioned degrees on. Half the candidates are asleep as it's going. (Maybe that's why you missed the pope's hat?  ;))

   

Anyway, the bit where they have the candidate stomp the pope's hat is certainly a "Whoah" moment. Though the average Methodist/Baptist probably digs it. For me, the problematic thing was they would include "Christ" alongside Mithras, Isis, Zeus, etc. Mostly, it's just casual association in the ritual, but the meaning is plain: No one has the absolute claim on religious truth.

I never saw this bit about stomping on the Pope's hat, although I had read about that on the Internet going in. Being Roman Catholic at the time, I paid very close attention to see if anything of the sort would happen. It didn't.

At night, after the degrees are over, the candidates would also gather in a room and listen to one of the SR dignitaries offer his 'take' on what they saw during the day. There's a lot of emphasis on King Solomon's turn toward pagan worship, and they use this to explain that the Temple was built to deify many different Gods.

I never saw this, either.


Offline Sauron

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 844
Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #330 on: February 13, 2014, 01:31:07 PM »
Hi Sauron:  

I guess what you saw depends on which Valley you joined. In a lot of valleys, the degree's are 'communicated,' which means they don't actually do the degree, but they'll tell you what the degree was about and show you the signs and grips. I was 'fortunate' to have joined the Guthrie (Okla.) Scottish Rite -- so I saw all the degrees when I went through (over a 4-day reunion), and I worked several parts in degree teams for a few years, too.

My reunion was over a weekend. They performed about half of the degrees and then communicated the other half. It still was all day on Saturday and Sunday. Ugh.

Quote
But ... It's. All. Soooo. Boring. Seriously, they turn out the lights, crank up the AC, and start putting these old-fashioned degrees on. Half the candidates are asleep as it's going. (Maybe that's why you missed the pope's hat?  ;))

I did nod off a few times. I had to get up pretty early to get there in time. I've never seen any credible evidence that the trampling of a papal tiara takes place, though.

The only degree I can clearly remember by name is the 14th. I thought it was pretty good. The others are pretty foggy. I remember one about medieval knights doing a trial by ordeal, and one that had carpenters/workmen in a shop. I think the latter one was the 19th?

In any event, after getting the 32nd degree at the reunion, I never went back, mostly because (1) I didn't see the point and (2) it was an hour's drive from my house. I was all about the blue lodge when I was a Mason. I never respected any of the appendant bodies.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 01:31:21 PM by Sauron »

Offline Rambam

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 639
  • Send lawyers, guns, and money
Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #331 on: February 13, 2014, 01:40:32 PM »
Quote
I never respected any of the appendant bodies.

Oooh nooo! I almost wish I could hand you a York Rite petition. Honestly -- even though I'm on "indefinite suspension" by the Grand Lodge (Lolz!) -- I do miss the Yorkies.

Offline rakovsky

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,474
  • St. Mstislav I
    • The Old Testament Prophecies of the Messiah's Resurrection and Orthodox Christianity's roots in the Holy Land
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #332 on: February 13, 2014, 01:51:02 PM »
Nothing specifically antiChristian, besides the surprising Pope hat? Nothing done with crosses or mention of lucifer?
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 01:51:31 PM by rakovsky »
The ocean, infinite to men, and the worlds beyond it, are directed by the same ordinances of the Lord. ~ I Clement 20

Offline podkarpatska

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,732
  • Pokrov
    • ACROD (home)
Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #333 on: February 13, 2014, 01:54:55 PM »
It seems silly and sophomoric to me...

Offline Sauron

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 844
Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #334 on: February 13, 2014, 01:55:59 PM »
Quote
I never respected any of the appendant bodies.

Oooh nooo! I almost wish I could hand you a York Rite petition. Honestly -- even though I'm on "indefinite suspension" by the Grand Lodge (Lolz!) -- I do miss the Yorkies.

I was York Rite, too, but I didn't make it through all the degrees that day because they were running late on everything. I got annoyed and never came back for the make-up session.

Offline Rambam

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 639
  • Send lawyers, guns, and money
Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #335 on: February 13, 2014, 01:58:16 PM »
No, nothing explicit like this. Anyway, I don't think the SR is explicitly anti-Christian. It's just very pantheist.  You know, a "all roads lead to heaven" sort of thing.

Of course, this may be a distinction without a difference.

As for lucifer -- that sucker never shows up except for Pike's M&D.

Nothing specifically antiChristian, besides the surprising Pope hat? Nothing done with crosses or mention of lucifer?

Offline Rambam

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 639
  • Send lawyers, guns, and money
Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #336 on: February 13, 2014, 02:00:29 PM »
Running late. That's a LOL. Even with different jurisdictions and experiences, so many things are the same.
 

Quote
I never respected any of the appendant bodies.

Oooh nooo! I almost wish I could hand you a York Rite petition. Honestly -- even though I'm on "indefinite suspension" by the Grand Lodge (Lolz!) -- I do miss the Yorkies.

I was York Rite, too, but I didn't make it through all the degrees that day because they were running late on everything. I got annoyed and never came back for the make-up session.

Offline Rambam

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 639
  • Send lawyers, guns, and money
Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #337 on: February 13, 2014, 02:00:48 PM »
Cool story, bro.

It seems silly and sophomoric to me...

Online Asteriktos

  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 36,121
Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #338 on: February 13, 2014, 02:03:46 PM »
It seems silly and sophomoric to me...

Everyone says that until the aliens secretly invade. No one expects the alien colonization. Then you'll be glad that such powerful men have been prepared and put in the right positions to bargain.

Offline podkarpatska

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,732
  • Pokrov
    • ACROD (home)
Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #339 on: February 13, 2014, 02:06:13 PM »
It seems silly and sophomoric to me...

Everyone says that until the aliens secretly invade. No one expects the alien colonization. Then you'll be glad that such powerful men have been prepared and put in the right positions to bargain.

 :D

Offline Rambam

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 639
  • Send lawyers, guns, and money
Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #340 on: February 13, 2014, 02:07:32 PM »
If this did happen -- it'd be a lot more like "Tucker and Dale vs. Evil" than "Mars Attacks."

It seems silly and sophomoric to me...

Everyone says that until the aliens secretly invade. No one expects the alien colonization. Then you'll be glad that such powerful men have been prepared and put in the right positions to bargain.

Online Asteriktos

  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 36,121
Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #341 on: February 13, 2014, 02:08:39 PM »
I was thinking X-Files, but Tucker and Dale was pretty good (till it slowed down at the end).  :angel:

Offline rakovsky

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,474
  • St. Mstislav I
    • The Old Testament Prophecies of the Messiah's Resurrection and Orthodox Christianity's roots in the Holy Land
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #342 on: February 13, 2014, 02:09:24 PM »
Did they give a story with the Pope hat?
The ocean, infinite to men, and the worlds beyond it, are directed by the same ordinances of the Lord. ~ I Clement 20

Offline Rambam

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 639
  • Send lawyers, guns, and money
Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #343 on: February 13, 2014, 02:18:26 PM »
Yeah, it's got something to do with repudiating tyrants. There's actually three hats, if I remember -- the pope's hat, a king's crown, and something else.

Lolz. I just did a google search on stepping on pope's hats, and these posts from this thread are being posted at another forum (http://www.evilyoshida.com/Thread-Masonic-Scottish-Rite-Stomping-on-the-Pope-s-Hat) ... are you Evil Yoshida , rakovksy?  Hahaha. It'd be funny if you were.

Did they give a story with the Pope hat?

Offline Rambam

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 639
  • Send lawyers, guns, and money
Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #344 on: February 13, 2014, 02:20:52 PM »
You are on that other board. Is that you, rako?


Yeah, it's got something to do with repudiating tyrants. There's actually three hats, if I remember -- the pope's hat, a king's crown, and something else.

Lolz. I just did a google search on stepping on pope's hats, and these posts from this thread are being posted at another forum (http://www.evilyoshida.com/Thread-Masonic-Scottish-Rite-Stomping-on-the-Pope-s-Hat) ... are you Evil Yoshida , rakovksy?  Hahaha. It'd be funny if you were.

Did they give a story with the Pope hat?

Offline Sauron

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 844
Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #345 on: February 13, 2014, 02:25:14 PM »
Also, I have this strange "quirk" of reading English top to bottom. Therefore, I find it easier to read if you place your reply below the text to which you are replying. Thank you very much.

Offline Rambam

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 639
  • Send lawyers, guns, and money
Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #346 on: February 13, 2014, 02:36:58 PM »
Deleted. For now.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 02:39:39 PM by Rambam »

Offline rakovsky

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,474
  • St. Mstislav I
    • The Old Testament Prophecies of the Messiah's Resurrection and Orthodox Christianity's roots in the Holy Land
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #347 on: February 13, 2014, 02:38:54 PM »
Oh well.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 02:47:35 PM by rakovsky »
The ocean, infinite to men, and the worlds beyond it, are directed by the same ordinances of the Lord. ~ I Clement 20

Offline Rambam

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 639
  • Send lawyers, guns, and money
Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #348 on: February 13, 2014, 02:42:35 PM »
Eh. I'll let Sauron take it from here. If someone's copying and pasting my posts into other forums, I'll just go join that forum. It'll save someone the hassle of trucking all this stuff over there.

Just weird.

Which degree involved the part about tyrants? You could look it up that way.

Offline rakovsky

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,474
  • St. Mstislav I
    • The Old Testament Prophecies of the Messiah's Resurrection and Orthodox Christianity's roots in the Holy Land
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #349 on: February 13, 2014, 03:25:08 PM »
The ocean, infinite to men, and the worlds beyond it, are directed by the same ordinances of the Lord. ~ I Clement 20

Offline podkarpatska

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,732
  • Pokrov
    • ACROD (home)
Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #350 on: February 13, 2014, 03:30:00 PM »
^ LOL , pom in the alternate universe!

Offline orthonorm

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,715
  • Ad Aluminum!
  • Faith: DSM 5
  • Jurisdiction: Apostle to the Church of ASD
Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #351 on: February 13, 2014, 07:59:13 PM »
Eh. I'll let Sauron take it from here. If someone's copying and pasting my posts into other forums, I'll just go join that forum. It'll save someone the hassle of trucking all this stuff over there.

Just weird.

Which degree involved the part about tyrants? You could look it up that way.

Dude it is an honor. And don't let Sauron take it over, he's a smart guy but posts some rather boring stuff when not talking about how American women are the worst and how rich American men who can't get a phone number in the US do well with women in Japan.

And IQ.

Offline orthonorm

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,715
  • Ad Aluminum!
  • Faith: DSM 5
  • Jurisdiction: Apostle to the Church of ASD
Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #352 on: February 13, 2014, 08:00:32 PM »
Cognomen is owning this thread.

Know zip about what goes on in Masonry, how do you all know anything about it? I mean I know that Sauron was a member so that he could meet other alphas to up his game with, but what about the rest of you? Why did you leave?

Offline Iconodule

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,332
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate (ACROD)
Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #353 on: February 13, 2014, 08:10:23 PM »
I've noticed this as well, with a lot of Masons I know being pagan or quasi-pagan.  It's somewhat strange to reconcile this with Freemasonry as well.  For as all over the place as the teachings are, it does retain a very monotheistic and, in many ways "Abrahamic" outlook.  Yes, the concept of the Great/Grand Architect of the Universe is pretty vague, but worshiping some river god isn't "kosher" for Masonry either. 


My understanding is that Masonry, like most of the Western occult orders, is broadly neoplatonic or hermeticist in its outlook, which puts it in a camp of paganism that is monotheistic or approaching monotheism.
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline Cognomen

  • Ungrateful Biped
  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,155
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Wanderer, but Antioch and All the East
Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #354 on: February 14, 2014, 12:28:27 AM »
I've noticed this as well, with a lot of Masons I know being pagan or quasi-pagan.  It's somewhat strange to reconcile this with Freemasonry as well.  For as all over the place as the teachings are, it does retain a very monotheistic and, in many ways "Abrahamic" outlook.  Yes, the concept of the Great/Grand Architect of the Universe is pretty vague, but worshiping some river god isn't "kosher" for Masonry either. 


My understanding is that Masonry, like most of the Western occult orders, is broadly neoplatonic or hermeticist in its outlook, which puts it in a camp of paganism that is monotheistic or approaching monotheism.

I think this is a very succinct and accurate response.  I agree with your understanding of the broadly neoplatonic and hermeticist outlooks.  I suppose I never considered the teachings as pagan, as the concept of monotheistic paganism didn't spring to mind.  I've read the term before, but would you further explain the concept?
If anything I have posted has been illuminating, please remember that I merely reflect the light of others...but also it's me.

Offline peterchristian

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 143
  • Faith: Greek Orthodox
Illuminist half-time ritual at recent Super Bowl
« Reply #355 on: February 14, 2014, 09:23:38 AM »
If there have been any doubts about the extent of illuminist activity, it is now displaying its power openly and brazenly.  In the following video we see the popular illuminist tool Madonna dressed in horned Bhaphomet head gear performing an occultic ritual at recent Super Bowl.  For christians at least, the symbolism should be apparent.  

Madonna opens the luciferian extravaganza paraded by her fallen angelic goated minions.  Later her satanic entourage appear garbed in black ritualistic robes singing 'midnight hour.'  In the finale, the horned goddess is emblematically swallowed down into Hell ('home') as the final message is written in hellfire –  World Peace (the coming Antichrist's false peace). We may also notice the occultic hexagram (the Jewish Antichrist's so-called star of David) being flashed around at various times in the 'show' (for example pause at min. 12:13).

The entire spectacle is set before a tickled crowd of 70,000 deluded fans cheering on Satan on the Lord’s Day. Very disturbing! Christian awake!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_mJZP0OUI4
« Last Edit: February 14, 2014, 09:25:02 AM by peterchristian »
"For God was made man that man might be made God."

Offline Iconodule

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,332
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate (ACROD)
Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #356 on: February 14, 2014, 10:29:02 AM »
I've noticed this as well, with a lot of Masons I know being pagan or quasi-pagan.  It's somewhat strange to reconcile this with Freemasonry as well.  For as all over the place as the teachings are, it does retain a very monotheistic and, in many ways "Abrahamic" outlook.  Yes, the concept of the Great/Grand Architect of the Universe is pretty vague, but worshiping some river god isn't "kosher" for Masonry either. 


My understanding is that Masonry, like most of the Western occult orders, is broadly neoplatonic or hermeticist in its outlook, which puts it in a camp of paganism that is monotheistic or approaching monotheism.

I think this is a very succinct and accurate response.  I agree with your understanding of the broadly neoplatonic and hermeticist outlooks.  I suppose I never considered the teachings as pagan, as the concept of monotheistic paganism didn't spring to mind.  I've read the term before, but would you further explain the concept?

The neoplatonists and Hermeticists were emerging from pagan philosophical traditions but drew the conclusion that there is only one God, and the other, lesser gods are just emanations or creations of this One. This made their works extremely influential and useful for Christian theologians, and also helped pagan philosophy survive through the middle ages and renaissance in Christian guise, through alchemy and related fields.
Quote
“A goose to hatch the Crystal Egg after an Eagle had half-hatched it! Aye, aye, to be sure, that’s right,” said the Old Woman of Beare. “And now you must go find out what happened to it. Go now, and when you come back I will give you your name.”
- from The King of Ireland's Son, by Padraic Colum

Offline Cognomen

  • Ungrateful Biped
  • Site Supporter
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,155
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Wanderer, but Antioch and All the East
Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #357 on: February 14, 2014, 11:30:36 PM »
^  Thanks, Iconodule.


Know zip about what goes on in Masonry, how do you all know anything about it? I mean I know that Sauron was a member so that he could meet other alphas to up his game with, but what about the rest of you? Why did you leave?

I became very interested in Freemasonry during my agnostic to "reverent monotheist" days.  Not particularly liking any of the major religions but seeing value in them, I found Masonry's approach helpful for thinking about it all and recognizing a really really vague yet somewhat familiar primary deity.

Even though I found the esotericism intriguing, it never quite made sense to me, and it wasn't evident that it really made sense to others.  Learning more about various religions from the actual religions, the more I became convinced that Masonry's teachings on the various faiths and overall perspective--along with most theosophical positions I've encountered--are too flawed to be of much use. 

Once the allure of this whole perspective wore off, I was left with the community and charitable functions of the organization, neither of which were too compelling.  It's "best" work lay far behind it.

Then learning about Orthodoxy, and really "real Christianity" in general, sounded the death knell for my active interest in the related subjects.  I still find the topic interesting though, particularly trying to find out what the hell it is, what it was attempting to supplement, e.g. mystically deprived Puritanical Christianity?  And, as this thread mentioned, how people can reconcile Masonry with their Christian, Jewish, Muslim, etc. teachings and orientations.
If anything I have posted has been illuminating, please remember that I merely reflect the light of others...but also it's me.

Offline podkarpatska

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,732
  • Pokrov
    • ACROD (home)
Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #358 on: February 15, 2014, 08:25:10 AM »
Regarding peterchristian' s  post,  more toilets are flushed in one twenty minute period in America during the Super Bowl halftime show than any other time of the year. It is said there are even lines at the stadiums many mens rooms.

Bread and circuses are as old as the hills. The Church will prevail.

Offline LBK

  • No Reporting Allowed
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,496
  • Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!
  • Faith: Orthodox
Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #359 on: February 15, 2014, 08:29:09 AM »
Regarding peterchristian' s  post,  more toilets are flushed in one twenty minute period in America during the Super Bowl halftime show than any other time of the year. It is said there are even lines at the stadiums many mens rooms.

Bread and circuses are as old as the hills. The Church will prevail.

Similar statistics have been recorded during intervals of other major sporting fixtures such as the World Cup finals, the FA Cup finals, UEFA Cup, etc.  :)
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?