Author Topic: Illuminati & Freemasons  (Read 91611 times)

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Offline dcommini

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #270 on: September 21, 2013, 03:20:33 PM »
I think you're reading too much into it.  It's simply saying yes, there black people are allowed to be Masons.  There exists Prince Hall lodges (which are fully Masonic) that are made up of only black people.  There are also lodges that are integrated.  According to your friends, OTOH, no lodge (Blue, I assume) will accept a black man as a member.  Here's a question for your friends.  Would these lodges your friends attend accept an affiliation request from a black man that is already a Mason?

Yes, if a black man came from say Georgia where he is in the blue lodge they would accept him in the blue lodge here.

From what I've been told that is the only way for a black man to join the blue lodge in Tennessee.

Got it.  So non-Mason black man comes wanting to be a Mason, they think,"Ewww, no black guys."  But if he were a Mason, "Ah, yes, my brother, show us the signs."  Have you seen any black Masons being received in TN or are they just directed to Prince Hall?  That you know of or have been told?

I have heard of a few black Masons being accepted into the blue lodge, never met them though
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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #271 on: September 21, 2013, 09:19:52 PM »
Why would a high up in the organization say that when their website clearly states something to the contrary.  Something doesn't make sense.

Or it's just another Masonic plot.

Like this http://goo.gl/maps/o8Qfl or was that just sarcasm?
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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #272 on: September 21, 2013, 09:24:17 PM »
If I post a masonic symbol on this thread, does it mean that oc.net is secretly part of the illuminati or does it mean that just I am a lone illuminati operative?  I need to know what the ramifications of my actions are.

It would mean nothing, because oc.net doesn't have one bit of power in this world, except for security access in a simple machine forum system.   

If oc.net had 2 billion views, a huge following of youth, and consistently posted masonic symbols, satanic symbols, and gave many posts on how to live a life away from Christ, then it can make one wonder.

What happens here though is there are things presented and people deny.  It makes them feel better so they can go on with normal life, not having to sacrifice things they like.... or even realize how messed up it is.
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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #273 on: September 21, 2013, 09:28:39 PM »
Why would a high up in the organization say that when their website clearly states something to the contrary.  Something doesn't make sense.

Or it's just another Masonic plot.

Yes, they feed all members with lies, but at the top is where the truth of the matter is.  BTW, Ke$ha is there and she is a racist.

Other than the last sarcasm, you are actually right.

Wasn't it Morals and Dogma that referenced Freemasonry bing like an onion... The outside layer not knowing what the inside layer was about?
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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #274 on: September 21, 2013, 09:43:51 PM »
To dominate the world and amke us believe in satanism?

In that case, they are doing a horrible job. Jehovah's Witnesses are doing better than them.

They are actually doing a great job.  The idea of satanism is to become god of one's self, as lucifer did.  This is also the basis of atheism - that if somebody does what they want, there is no punishment or reward eternally.   This is also taught by crowley, "do what thy wilt".

As stated, go to youtube and watch "die young" by Ke$ha.  65 million views.  Full of anti-Christian values, upside down crosses, all seeing eyes.

Go to youtube and watch "we can't stop" by Mylea cyrus with over 400 million views.   "Do what I want" over and over again on the songs.  All seeing eye tattoo on her finger.

This stuff is real.  The objective is to bring people into eternal damnation.

There is absolutely no proof that any of these people have any connections to Masonry, no matter how unchristian their music videos may be.



Except the fact their videos are loaded with masonic symbolism, along with illuminati symbolism (which by the way, the illuminati & freemasonry are intertwined.    We aren't talking about Uncle Joe that belongs to the lodge masonry either... (which is still wrong).  We are talking about elite masons here.

Many masonic symbols are something, which the masons adopted from the surrounding culture. Lots of lodges and fraternities did that, not just the masons. But let us imagine that there does exist a secret masonic elite who seeks to lead the world astray. Why are they putting their symbols all over the place if their goal is to remain hidden? Wouldn't it be smarter to just make the music videos without the symbols, in order to avoid everything that could connect them to the videos?

Besides, how big are the chances that a random person, who happens to be watching these videos, will recognize or even notice those symbols? Most people outside the internet are largely ignorant of freemasonry and the symbols they use.

The whole idea just seems incredibly illogical.

I don't know why, but they are getting more bold as the years pass.   Look at how outrageous the video have gotten compared to years past?  People like Ozzy Osborne were considered "outrageous" in the 1980's, and a few photos exist of him with upside down crosses etc.  He was fringe in ways... As was Marylin Manson.

Today the largest artists are presenting this ideology in their lyrics and symbols.  Ke$ha, Lady gaga, Cyrus, Kayne West - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccPm3CdP3Uo, and many other artists, and in many movies.

Not to be insulting to anybody in particular... But sometimes I wonder how some of you believe in God.  When there is such blatant obvious in your face proof of these symbols and teachings being broadcasted to MILLIONS of people..... Yet it is denied.

Yet one will proclaim faith in God through ancient scriptures... Some with not known authors.

Look, this is very real.  There are a lot of lines being drawn in the sand right now.  Many world economies are on the verge of collapse.  One world currency could be on our doorstep soon.  Morals & families are shrinking fast... Atheism is at an all time high.  Gays are openly marrying, wars and rumors of wars...

I run a farm, and people are buying up my young livestock like crazy preparing for the end times.  It's actually very scary to see the volume of people coming to buy and start their farming.  Many of like-minded belief.

It still isn't enough to convince me. You say you don't know why they are doing it, they just are.

And there are no wars going on right know, that are even close to be worse than anything, humanity have done before. People today haven't experienced the World Wars, fewer yet have even read about the countless wars that went on for decades and caused the death of millions, the plague that wiped out half of Europe etc.

What exactly is the World going through now, that is so much worse, that it, appearently is foreshadowing the End? Nothing about the present economic situation is much worse than what we saw under the great depression. I am reminding you about the Germany, where children used money as building blocks.

I already told you why I think they are doing it.  To drag people to hell.

There are many wars going on right now, I have no idea what you are talking about.  There are also many rumors of wars going on right now.

The world is going through devastation right now.     According to WHO, there are 125,000 abortions performed every day in the WORLD. http://www.worldometers.info/abortions/.  I'm sure God counts this as a massive loss of life.   So many lives per year slaughtered (40-50 million)

Atheism is growing like crazy http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/01/14/the-best-charts-about-the-rise-of-the-nones-youll-see-all-year/

There are massive breakdowns in family (divorce), less people getting married, and less people wanting children.

Morals.... We need not say.  It's easy enough to read the scriptures and see God telling us that "looking at a woman lustfully" is adultery in the heart.   How many on here an Orthodox forum are addicted to porn? (not judging).

Gays are being allowed to marry, even in the church.  Today the Pope even told the church not to judge them and be more accepting (abomination anyone?).

It's directly in front of people who choose to see it.

The number of wars going on right now is not greater than the number of wars that took place in the past. Again, people need to look back at what humanity have experienced throughout history.

No one is denying that the world is going through a lot of turmoil in these days, and yes, from a christian point of view, there are a lot of things going on, that are horrible, but we should be careful, when talking about the end of the world. There have been numerous times, where people have proclaimed that Judgement Day was near, only to see the world recover again.  



But there are wars and rumors of war.  (Iran, N. Korea, Syria).
People being murdered in droves through abortion.
The 3rd temple is being rebuilt.
Consider the towns spoken in prophecy such as Damascus (Syria), Babylon (Iraq), and the historic Tyre (which was never rebuilt), having events centered around them.

As far as atheism is concerned, we have other terms now that use to include "atheist".  Like humanists.  Though not modern, agnostics is another term which is close to atheists.   Humanists and agnostics are absolutely on the rise.

I believe there is a strong showing of people hating God fearing families as well.  Such as the Duggar family, that is often scorned by many (including Christians) where children aren't blessings.

Somewhere I read the quote - "In the bible debt is a curse and children are blessings, but today people apply for debt and don't want children"...  That is the mentality to many people....  There is an overall attitude I'm seeing, which is on a global scale, which is embracing the lies of Science and it sways off faith.

Then there is the OBVIOUS movies and songs promoting the satanic agenda to the masses.  People accept them today with open arms....

Obviously there is also an interesting question of faith I present.   Since so many deny that Ke$ha is not promoting Satanism, is not using illuminati/mason symbols, with evidence in front of their face. (She even admits to having sex with an "evil ghost"), then how in the world do some of you have faith in God from ancient texts and traditions?

Ke$ha in her own words ADMITS that the dark forces are "cool".  She obviously is very famous, obviously very satanic, and absolutely uses illuminati/mason symbols.   Widely accepted.

It's come far from Elvis shaking his hips and the shock & horror.

So yes, I believe this widely accepted behavior and sinful nature is a true sign the end times are here/approaching.

There have been "rumors of war" in North Korea for the last 50 years. They don't have the military power to take on the West and the country is getting increasingly unpopular in China. The Middle East have been in perpetual crisis since colonial times.

And...

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_IAW.html


The statistics show that the number of abortions, on a global scale, are dropping. Yes, there are still many taking place (which is horrible), but if the developing world follows a path, just slightly similar to that of the developed, then, we will at least be moving in the right direction.

Good, then only 120,000 babies will die a day instead..... (of course sarcasm)

The thing you are presenting is that because there are not AS MANY babies dying, that the world could be getting better, thus less reason for God to return.

The sources I read is that procedural abortions are dropping, and pharma abortions are huge.... (RU486).

Abortion is also just a piece of the puzzle.

« Last Edit: September 21, 2013, 09:56:12 PM by yeshuaisiam »
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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #275 on: September 21, 2013, 09:55:29 PM »
I hope coffee played well with keyboard.

I agree with your thoughts.  But one point:  Ke$ha is not pretending to be an Orthodox Christian leading the choir at Christ the Savior Cathedral in Moscow.  She's a pop "star" and if any person that claims to be a Christian thinks her music is good (wholesome, uplifting, or nice to listen to), I just don't know what to tell you.

It's more than this though.  These are Christians who are delusional, or too afraid to admit what is happening to society.   They ignore the symbolism, desecration of churches in her video, lesbian sex portrayal/promotion, group sex portrayal/promotion.... They don't see the seriousness of 2 billion views or the implications of it on society.

In fact in the Tik Tok video lyrics which were just put under sarcasm in a previous post, she ditches out on her family at the table at breakfast and rides up to a group of children listening to a boom box.....  Next she's in a club with hands all over her, lesbianism, etc.

When you have 10-12 year olds watching & listening to this, it gives an impression.  Rebellion against family is "okay".  Homosexuality is "okay".  etc.

But it's easier to say people are crazy who think these things. 
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Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #276 on: September 22, 2013, 08:42:17 AM »
when someone asks you to join something that they will give details of what it is only *after* you are already committed to them, they are asking you to give them a blank cheque on your life. It can't be a good thing.
What if you have to make promises that you will be killed in bad ways if you tell the secrets before you are told them?
It's on the History Channel.

cross my heart, hope to die, stick a needle in my eye if I lie. Really, a bunch of geezers running around and playing grade school games.

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Offline Ansgar

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #277 on: September 22, 2013, 10:11:23 AM »
To dominate the world and amke us believe in satanism?

In that case, they are doing a horrible job. Jehovah's Witnesses are doing better than them.

They are actually doing a great job.  The idea of satanism is to become god of one's self, as lucifer did.  This is also the basis of atheism - that if somebody does what they want, there is no punishment or reward eternally.   This is also taught by crowley, "do what thy wilt".

As stated, go to youtube and watch "die young" by Ke$ha.  65 million views.  Full of anti-Christian values, upside down crosses, all seeing eyes.

Go to youtube and watch "we can't stop" by Mylea cyrus with over 400 million views.   "Do what I want" over and over again on the songs.  All seeing eye tattoo on her finger.

This stuff is real.  The objective is to bring people into eternal damnation.

There is absolutely no proof that any of these people have any connections to Masonry, no matter how unchristian their music videos may be.



Except the fact their videos are loaded with masonic symbolism, along with illuminati symbolism (which by the way, the illuminati & freemasonry are intertwined.    We aren't talking about Uncle Joe that belongs to the lodge masonry either... (which is still wrong).  We are talking about elite masons here.

Many masonic symbols are something, which the masons adopted from the surrounding culture. Lots of lodges and fraternities did that, not just the masons. But let us imagine that there does exist a secret masonic elite who seeks to lead the world astray. Why are they putting their symbols all over the place if their goal is to remain hidden? Wouldn't it be smarter to just make the music videos without the symbols, in order to avoid everything that could connect them to the videos?

Besides, how big are the chances that a random person, who happens to be watching these videos, will recognize or even notice those symbols? Most people outside the internet are largely ignorant of freemasonry and the symbols they use.

The whole idea just seems incredibly illogical.

I don't know why, but they are getting more bold as the years pass.   Look at how outrageous the video have gotten compared to years past?  People like Ozzy Osborne were considered "outrageous" in the 1980's, and a few photos exist of him with upside down crosses etc.  He was fringe in ways... As was Marylin Manson.

Today the largest artists are presenting this ideology in their lyrics and symbols.  Ke$ha, Lady gaga, Cyrus, Kayne West - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccPm3CdP3Uo, and many other artists, and in many movies.

Not to be insulting to anybody in particular... But sometimes I wonder how some of you believe in God.  When there is such blatant obvious in your face proof of these symbols and teachings being broadcasted to MILLIONS of people..... Yet it is denied.

Yet one will proclaim faith in God through ancient scriptures... Some with not known authors.

Look, this is very real.  There are a lot of lines being drawn in the sand right now.  Many world economies are on the verge of collapse.  One world currency could be on our doorstep soon.  Morals & families are shrinking fast... Atheism is at an all time high.  Gays are openly marrying, wars and rumors of wars...

I run a farm, and people are buying up my young livestock like crazy preparing for the end times.  It's actually very scary to see the volume of people coming to buy and start their farming.  Many of like-minded belief.

It still isn't enough to convince me. You say you don't know why they are doing it, they just are.

And there are no wars going on right know, that are even close to be worse than anything, humanity have done before. People today haven't experienced the World Wars, fewer yet have even read about the countless wars that went on for decades and caused the death of millions, the plague that wiped out half of Europe etc.

What exactly is the World going through now, that is so much worse, that it, appearently is foreshadowing the End? Nothing about the present economic situation is much worse than what we saw under the great depression. I am reminding you about the Germany, where children used money as building blocks.

I already told you why I think they are doing it.  To drag people to hell.

There are many wars going on right now, I have no idea what you are talking about.  There are also many rumors of wars going on right now.

The world is going through devastation right now.     According to WHO, there are 125,000 abortions performed every day in the WORLD. http://www.worldometers.info/abortions/.  I'm sure God counts this as a massive loss of life.   So many lives per year slaughtered (40-50 million)

Atheism is growing like crazy http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/01/14/the-best-charts-about-the-rise-of-the-nones-youll-see-all-year/

There are massive breakdowns in family (divorce), less people getting married, and less people wanting children.

Morals.... We need not say.  It's easy enough to read the scriptures and see God telling us that "looking at a woman lustfully" is adultery in the heart.   How many on here an Orthodox forum are addicted to porn? (not judging).

Gays are being allowed to marry, even in the church.  Today the Pope even told the church not to judge them and be more accepting (abomination anyone?).

It's directly in front of people who choose to see it.

The number of wars going on right now is not greater than the number of wars that took place in the past. Again, people need to look back at what humanity have experienced throughout history.

No one is denying that the world is going through a lot of turmoil in these days, and yes, from a christian point of view, there are a lot of things going on, that are horrible, but we should be careful, when talking about the end of the world. There have been numerous times, where people have proclaimed that Judgement Day was near, only to see the world recover again.  



But there are wars and rumors of war.  (Iran, N. Korea, Syria).
People being murdered in droves through abortion.
The 3rd temple is being rebuilt.
Consider the towns spoken in prophecy such as Damascus (Syria), Babylon (Iraq), and the historic Tyre (which was never rebuilt), having events centered around them.

As far as atheism is concerned, we have other terms now that use to include "atheist".  Like humanists.  Though not modern, agnostics is another term which is close to atheists.   Humanists and agnostics are absolutely on the rise.

I believe there is a strong showing of people hating God fearing families as well.  Such as the Duggar family, that is often scorned by many (including Christians) where children aren't blessings.

Somewhere I read the quote - "In the bible debt is a curse and children are blessings, but today people apply for debt and don't want children"...  That is the mentality to many people....  There is an overall attitude I'm seeing, which is on a global scale, which is embracing the lies of Science and it sways off faith.

Then there is the OBVIOUS movies and songs promoting the satanic agenda to the masses.  People accept them today with open arms....

Obviously there is also an interesting question of faith I present.   Since so many deny that Ke$ha is not promoting Satanism, is not using illuminati/mason symbols, with evidence in front of their face. (She even admits to having sex with an "evil ghost"), then how in the world do some of you have faith in God from ancient texts and traditions?

Ke$ha in her own words ADMITS that the dark forces are "cool".  She obviously is very famous, obviously very satanic, and absolutely uses illuminati/mason symbols.   Widely accepted.

It's come far from Elvis shaking his hips and the shock & horror.

So yes, I believe this widely accepted behavior and sinful nature is a true sign the end times are here/approaching.

There have been "rumors of war" in North Korea for the last 50 years. They don't have the military power to take on the West and the country is getting increasingly unpopular in China. The Middle East have been in perpetual crisis since colonial times.

And...

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_IAW.html


The statistics show that the number of abortions, on a global scale, are dropping. Yes, there are still many taking place (which is horrible), but if the developing world follows a path, just slightly similar to that of the developed, then, we will at least be moving in the right direction.

Good, then only 120,000 babies will die a day instead..... (of course sarcasm)

The thing you are presenting is that because there are not AS MANY babies dying, that the world could be getting better, thus less reason for God to return.

The sources I read is that procedural abortions are dropping, and pharma abortions are huge.... (RU486).

Abortion is also just a piece of the puzzle.



No, that was not what I said. You said that everything was getting worse and I replied by stating that some things were actually getting better. We can't expect abortion to disappear over night. It is a process that would take a very long time. To expect anything else would be unrealistic.
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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #278 on: September 22, 2013, 01:24:01 PM »
Why would a high up in the organization say that when their website clearly states something to the contrary.  Something doesn't make sense.

Or it's just another Masonic plot.

Like this http://goo.gl/maps/o8Qfl or was that just sarcasm?

Given those choices, definitely sarcasm.  I have little patience for searching out Masonic plots, I have enough trouble discerning all of my sins.   
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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #279 on: September 22, 2013, 01:43:01 PM »
Quote from: Mor Ephrem
  I have little patience for searching out Masonic plots, I have enough trouble discerning all of my sins.   

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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #280 on: September 22, 2013, 01:49:06 PM »
To dominate the world and amke us believe in satanism?

In that case, they are doing a horrible job. Jehovah's Witnesses are doing better than them.

They are actually doing a great job.  The idea of satanism is to become god of one's self, as lucifer did.  This is also the basis of atheism - that if somebody does what they want, there is no punishment or reward eternally.   This is also taught by crowley, "do what thy wilt".

As stated, go to youtube and watch "die young" by Ke$ha.  65 million views.  Full of anti-Christian values, upside down crosses, all seeing eyes.

Go to youtube and watch "we can't stop" by Mylea cyrus with over 400 million views.   "Do what I want" over and over again on the songs.  All seeing eye tattoo on her finger.

This stuff is real.  The objective is to bring people into eternal damnation.

There is absolutely no proof that any of these people have any connections to Masonry, no matter how unchristian their music videos may be.



Except the fact their videos are loaded with masonic symbolism, along with illuminati symbolism (which by the way, the illuminati & freemasonry are intertwined.    We aren't talking about Uncle Joe that belongs to the lodge masonry either... (which is still wrong).  We are talking about elite masons here.

Many masonic symbols are something, which the masons adopted from the surrounding culture. Lots of lodges and fraternities did that, not just the masons. But let us imagine that there does exist a secret masonic elite who seeks to lead the world astray. Why are they putting their symbols all over the place if their goal is to remain hidden? Wouldn't it be smarter to just make the music videos without the symbols, in order to avoid everything that could connect them to the videos?

Besides, how big are the chances that a random person, who happens to be watching these videos, will recognize or even notice those symbols? Most people outside the internet are largely ignorant of freemasonry and the symbols they use.

The whole idea just seems incredibly illogical.

I don't know why, but they are getting more bold as the years pass.   Look at how outrageous the video have gotten compared to years past?  People like Ozzy Osborne were considered "outrageous" in the 1980's, and a few photos exist of him with upside down crosses etc.  He was fringe in ways... As was Marylin Manson.

Today the largest artists are presenting this ideology in their lyrics and symbols.  Ke$ha, Lady gaga, Cyrus, Kayne West - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccPm3CdP3Uo, and many other artists, and in many movies.

Not to be insulting to anybody in particular... But sometimes I wonder how some of you believe in God.  When there is such blatant obvious in your face proof of these symbols and teachings being broadcasted to MILLIONS of people..... Yet it is denied.

Yet one will proclaim faith in God through ancient scriptures... Some with not known authors.

Look, this is very real.  There are a lot of lines being drawn in the sand right now.  Many world economies are on the verge of collapse.  One world currency could be on our doorstep soon.  Morals & families are shrinking fast... Atheism is at an all time high.  Gays are openly marrying, wars and rumors of wars...

I run a farm, and people are buying up my young livestock like crazy preparing for the end times.  It's actually very scary to see the volume of people coming to buy and start their farming.  Many of like-minded belief.

It still isn't enough to convince me. You say you don't know why they are doing it, they just are.

And there are no wars going on right know, that are even close to be worse than anything, humanity have done before. People today haven't experienced the World Wars, fewer yet have even read about the countless wars that went on for decades and caused the death of millions, the plague that wiped out half of Europe etc.

What exactly is the World going through now, that is so much worse, that it, appearently is foreshadowing the End? Nothing about the present economic situation is much worse than what we saw under the great depression. I am reminding you about the Germany, where children used money as building blocks.

I already told you why I think they are doing it.  To drag people to hell.

There are many wars going on right now, I have no idea what you are talking about.  There are also many rumors of wars going on right now.

The world is going through devastation right now.     According to WHO, there are 125,000 abortions performed every day in the WORLD. http://www.worldometers.info/abortions/.  I'm sure God counts this as a massive loss of life.   So many lives per year slaughtered (40-50 million)

Atheism is growing like crazy http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/01/14/the-best-charts-about-the-rise-of-the-nones-youll-see-all-year/

There are massive breakdowns in family (divorce), less people getting married, and less people wanting children.

Morals.... We need not say.  It's easy enough to read the scriptures and see God telling us that "looking at a woman lustfully" is adultery in the heart.   How many on here an Orthodox forum are addicted to porn? (not judging).

Gays are being allowed to marry, even in the church.  Today the Pope even told the church not to judge them and be more accepting (abomination anyone?).

It's directly in front of people who choose to see it.

The number of wars going on right now is not greater than the number of wars that took place in the past. Again, people need to look back at what humanity have experienced throughout history.

No one is denying that the world is going through a lot of turmoil in these days, and yes, from a christian point of view, there are a lot of things going on, that are horrible, but we should be careful, when talking about the end of the world. There have been numerous times, where people have proclaimed that Judgement Day was near, only to see the world recover again.  



But there are wars and rumors of war.  (Iran, N. Korea, Syria).
People being murdered in droves through abortion.
The 3rd temple is being rebuilt.
Consider the towns spoken in prophecy such as Damascus (Syria), Babylon (Iraq), and the historic Tyre (which was never rebuilt), having events centered around them.

As far as atheism is concerned, we have other terms now that use to include "atheist".  Like humanists.  Though not modern, agnostics is another term which is close to atheists.   Humanists and agnostics are absolutely on the rise.

I believe there is a strong showing of people hating God fearing families as well.  Such as the Duggar family, that is often scorned by many (including Christians) where children aren't blessings.

Somewhere I read the quote - "In the bible debt is a curse and children are blessings, but today people apply for debt and don't want children"...  That is the mentality to many people....  There is an overall attitude I'm seeing, which is on a global scale, which is embracing the lies of Science and it sways off faith.

Then there is the OBVIOUS movies and songs promoting the satanic agenda to the masses.  People accept them today with open arms....

Obviously there is also an interesting question of faith I present.   Since so many deny that Ke$ha is not promoting Satanism, is not using illuminati/mason symbols, with evidence in front of their face. (She even admits to having sex with an "evil ghost"), then how in the world do some of you have faith in God from ancient texts and traditions?

Ke$ha in her own words ADMITS that the dark forces are "cool".  She obviously is very famous, obviously very satanic, and absolutely uses illuminati/mason symbols.   Widely accepted.

It's come far from Elvis shaking his hips and the shock & horror.

So yes, I believe this widely accepted behavior and sinful nature is a true sign the end times are here/approaching.

There have been "rumors of war" in North Korea for the last 50 years. They don't have the military power to take on the West and the country is getting increasingly unpopular in China. The Middle East have been in perpetual crisis since colonial times.

And...

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_IAW.html


The statistics show that the number of abortions, on a global scale, are dropping. Yes, there are still many taking place (which is horrible), but if the developing world follows a path, just slightly similar to that of the developed, then, we will at least be moving in the right direction.

Good, then only 120,000 babies will die a day instead..... (of course sarcasm)

The thing you are presenting is that because there are not AS MANY babies dying, that the world could be getting better, thus less reason for God to return.

The sources I read is that procedural abortions are dropping, and pharma abortions are huge.... (RU486).

Abortion is also just a piece of the puzzle.



No, that was not what I said. You said that everything was getting worse and I replied by stating that some things were actually getting better. We can't expect abortion to disappear over night. It is a process that would take a very long time. To expect anything else would be unrealistic.

Truth that's rarely uttered among the faithful.

I have been looking for unbiased statistics with respect to the actual numbers of illegal abortions performed in the United States prior to Roe. Unfortunately, any articles I've found are either stridently pro or con Roe, or are reported in the context of public health analyses of infant or maternal mortality,so I am reluctant to cite any of them. But, in an America of sixty or so million fewer citizens in the late 1960's than in 2013, estimates range fro under a quarter million  to a million or so annually. (Abortions among the economic classes able to "hide" the procedure under otherwise legal medical actions back then are not unusually included in the lower estimates. ) So it is reasonable to conclude, regardless of the actual pre Roe statistics, that legal remedies alone will not make abortion go away.

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #281 on: September 22, 2013, 03:22:00 PM »
Why would a high up in the organization say that when their website clearly states something to the contrary.  Something doesn't make sense.

Or it's just another Masonic plot.

Like this http://goo.gl/maps/o8Qfl or was that just sarcasm?
Ok, I am seeing a little pink dot at the intersection of H & 17th St.  Definitely a Masonic plot.
God bless!

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #282 on: September 22, 2013, 03:23:20 PM »
Why would a high up in the organization say that when their website clearly states something to the contrary.  Something doesn't make sense.

Or it's just another Masonic plot.

Like this http://goo.gl/maps/o8Qfl or was that just sarcasm?
Ok, I am seeing a little pink dot at the intersection of H & 17th St.  Definitely a Masonic plot.

Don't you see the outline of Baphomet?
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #283 on: September 22, 2013, 04:32:55 PM »
Why would a high up in the organization say that when their website clearly states something to the contrary.  Something doesn't make sense.

Or it's just another Masonic plot.

Like this http://goo.gl/maps/o8Qfl or was that just sarcasm?
Ok, I am seeing a little pink dot at the intersection of H & 17th St.  Definitely a Masonic plot.

Don't you see the outline of Baphomet?

I had to zoom all the way in to street view and then looked up into the second window on the third story and finally saw the head of St. John the Baptist in front of a picture of Ke$ha and what appeared to be goats blood splattered every where...

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Offline hecma925

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #284 on: September 22, 2013, 04:42:13 PM »
Why would a high up in the organization say that when their website clearly states something to the contrary.  Something doesn't make sense.

Or it's just another Masonic plot.

Like this http://goo.gl/maps/o8Qfl or was that just sarcasm?
Ok, I am seeing a little pink dot at the intersection of H & 17th St.  Definitely a Masonic plot.

Don't you see the outline of Baphomet?

I had to zoom all the way in to street view and then looked up into the second window on the third story and finally saw the head of St. John the Baptist in front of a picture of Ke$ha and what appeared to be goats blood splattered every where...


Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #285 on: September 22, 2013, 05:46:20 PM »
OblSB

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #286 on: September 22, 2013, 05:50:28 PM »
...and finally saw the head of St. John the Baptist in front of a picture of Ke$ha and what appeared to be goats blood splattered every where...

Which one? 
The whole forum is Mor. We're emanations of his godlike mind.

Actually, Mor's face shineth like the Sun.

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #287 on: September 23, 2013, 10:26:13 AM »
...and finally saw the head of St. John the Baptist in front of a picture of Ke$ha and what appeared to be goats blood splattered every where...

Which one? 

The one the Templars dug up from Jerusalem, obviously.
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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #288 on: September 23, 2013, 11:04:30 AM »
Of course they want you to believe there was only one they dug up...
The whole forum is Mor. We're emanations of his godlike mind.

Actually, Mor's face shineth like the Sun.

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #289 on: September 23, 2013, 11:06:12 AM »
Of course they want you to believe there was only one they dug up...

St. John's icon has his own head and his head on a platter.  Mind.  Blown.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #290 on: September 23, 2013, 12:03:13 PM »
Of course they want you to believe there was only one they dug up...

St. John's icon has his own head and his head on a platter.  Mind.  Blown.

It's a Masonic plot to infiltrate the Church.

After all, the Mason do revere Sts. John the Evangelist and the Forerunner (all Lodges being erected to God and dedicated to the holy Sts. John).

one head for every lodge
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Offline rakovsky

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #291 on: September 23, 2013, 01:42:24 PM »
Food for thought:

Quote
Dan Brown, author of the De Vinci Code translates back the word Sofia as Baphomet. But Baphomet was in America and in old Russia really was Sofia the Holy Wisdom of God: first it was for Constantinople, then in Kiev, and then Novgorod.
http://yaroslavova.ru/main.mhtml?Part=15&PubID=449
A number of articles you can easily find describe how the word Baphomet may come from words meaning wisdom, eg. in Arabic or Greek.
Then you can remember how the Illuminati use the image of an owl, (eg. the wise old owl).

Friedrich Nicolai (1733–1811)... was the first to claim that the Templars were Gnostics, and that "Baphomet" was formed from the Greek words βαφη μητȢς, baphe metous, to mean Taufe der Weisheit, "Baptism of Wisdom"

Brown's claim though about the word seems weak though:
Quote
Dr. Hugh J. Schonfield (1901–1988),[39] one of the scholars who worked on the Dead Sea Scrolls, argued in his book The Essene Odyssey that the word "Baphomet" was created with knowledge of the Atbash substitution cipher, which substitutes the first letter of the Hebrew alphabet for the last, the second for the second last, and so on. "Baphomet" rendered in Hebrew is בפומת; interpreted using Atbash, it becomes שופיא, which can be interpreted as the Greek word "Sophia", or wisdom. This theory is an important part of the plot of The Da Vinci Code.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baphomet


Constantinople


Kiev


Novgorod

According to another theory, the churches in Europe of the late Middle Ages were built according to occult principles by their masons, and this can explain the dark elements of western gothic style, including various hexagrams and pentacles (there are very big ones in the Lutheran cathedral in Hanover)

In other words, according to the article, the concept of Sacred Wisdom (Svyataya Sofia or Hagia Sofia) was based on Gnosticism (religion of hidden knowledge), much like occultism, and this is the article's claim of the basis for those three cities' central cathedrals named after "Sacred Wisdom".

What do you think?
« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 01:48:18 PM by rakovsky »
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #292 on: September 23, 2013, 05:09:43 PM »
"Lodges" are for adolescent men trying to escape the responsibilities of adulthood in incredibly unimaginative ways.
January 23, 2016, 03:47:17 PM   Ad Hominem - "mere foil"   +45

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foil_(literature)

Offline peterchristian

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #293 on: February 12, 2014, 06:41:50 AM »
No one is "defending" Freemasonry. The Church has forbidden membership of the organization. But just because freemasonry is contrary to Orthodoxy, it doesn't mean that they are plotting to take over the World and force everybody to worship Satan.  
Although private opinions may be useful, it would be wise to hear the the holy Fathers and the Church on this and related issues in order to improve our discernment.  I will also try to present quotations from Freemansonry itself to clarify further. As we will read from their own pens, the the work and goal of Freemansonry is the building of the Third Jewish Temple in Jerusalem.  In keeping with this vision of theirs, the inner meeting house of masonry is designed in temple-like fashion.  See here http://www.grandlodge.gr/

Judaism is also dreaming and working towards the same goal in preparation for their coming false 'Moschiah ben David' (the Antichrist). See here orthodox Judaism's chabad website: http://www.chabad.org/library/moshiach/article_cdo/aid/1121893/jewish/The-Basics.htm

We are witnessing the gradual progression of an unholy alliance of powerful Masons and religious Jewry preparing the way for their coming demonic king. But Christ will eventually destroy them with the breath of His holy mouth at His Coming. This is why our Church vehemently rejects masonry.  Here is more of the evidence:

Official position of the Greek Orthodox Church:
'Freemasonry is not simply a philanthropic union or a philosophical school, but constitutes a mystagogical system which reminds us of the ancient heathen mystery-religions and cults—from which it descends and is their continuation and regeneration.' For the entire statement see here: http://orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/masonry.aspx

Freemansonry according to the freemasons themselves:
'The masonic religion should be, by all of us initiates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian doctrine […] Yes, Lucifer is God, and unfortunately Adonay also is God […] and the true and philosophical religion is the belief in Lucifer, the equal of Adonay; but Lucifer, God of light and God of good, is struggling against Adonay, the God of darkness and evil.' Instructions to the 23 Supreme Councils of the World” on July 14, 1889 – Albert Pike.

"Of all the objects which constitute the Masonic science of symbolism, the most important, the most cherished, by the Mason, and by far the most significant, is the Temple of Jerusalem.’ Encyclopaedia of Freemasonry", by Albert Mackey, MD, 33º and Charles T. McClenachan, 33º,

"The traditions and romance of King Solomon's Temple are of great interest to everyone who reads the Bible. They are of transcendent importance to Masons. The Temple is the outstanding symbol in Masonry, and the legendary story of the building of the Temple is the fundamental basis of the Masonic rule and guide for conduct in life ... The cream of Masonic historical and philosophical writing has been drawn upon for his description of the Temple and its relation to Masonic ritual." The Holy Bible: The Great Light In Masonry",A.J. Holman Company, 1968,

To the Master Mason, the Temple of Solomon is truly the symbol of human life ... it becomes a fit symbol of human life occupied in the search after Divine Truth... Such is the symbolism of the first Temple, that of Solomon, as familiar to the class of Master Masons." "Encylopaedia of Freemasonry, Mackey, p. 774;

"... in the High Grades [of Masonry] we hear of a secret intention to build yet another temple at Jerusalem." [Author, Edward Waite, p. 486-7, "A New Encyclopedia of Freemasonry and of Cognate Instituted Mysteries: The Rites, Literature and History", Volume II.

"Concerning the building of this temple, the Zohar teaches that Solomon's Temple was not built according to the original plans ... In a word, the Lord did not build the House, and they laboured in vain that built it ... There is a time, however, to come, when the Holy One shall remember His people, Israel, and the Lord shall build the House." [Author, Edward Waite, p. 486-7, "A New Encyclopedia of Freemasonry and of Cognate Instituted Mysteries: The Rites, Literature and History", Volume II,

"It is known to every reader of the Bible and student of Solomon's days, that an amazingly detailed description of the Temple and its associated structures has been carried down from the mists of antiquity by the Scriptures. Lineal measurements, materials employed, and ornamental detail are so graphically presented that restoration of the Temple, at any time within a score of centuries past, awaited only the coming of a man with the vision to recognize its historic value, and the imagination to undertake the task." [Foreword, "The Bible and King Solomon's Temple in Masonry", by John Wesley Kelchner, 1968, A. J. Holman Company.]

Here then are our most wise and holy Fathers of our Orthodox faith:
"The Jews, who did not accept the Lord Jesus Christ as the true Son of God and God, will receive a deceiver who will call himself God." St. John of Damascus, Exact Exposition of the Orthodox Faith, Book IV, Ch. 26

'Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.' "by means of the events which shall occur in the time of the Antichrist it is shown that he, being an apostate and a robber, is anxious to be adored as God, and that although a mere slave, he wishes to be proclaimed as king. For he, being endued with all the power of the devil, shall not come as a righteous king nor as a legitimate king in subjection to God, but as an impious, unjust, and lawless one . . . setting aside idols to persuade [men] that he himself is God, raising himself up as the only idol. . . . Moreover [Paul] has also pointed out this which I have shown in many ways: that the temple in Jerusalem was made by the direction of the true God. For the apostle himself, speaking in his own person, distinctly called it the temple of God [2 Thess. 2:4] . . . in which the enemy shall sit, endeavoring to show himself as Christ. The adversary will sit in the temple of Jerusalem, in order to show himself as Christ, he will demand that those who are captivated by him should worship him as Christ. The Antichrist will demand worship as if he were God." (St. Irenaeus, Against Heresies 5:25:1-2 [A.D. 189]).

''The Antichrist will not only pronounce himself highest of the false gods, but will sit in the Temple of God, as if he were God ... the Jews, who did not want to believe in the Lord, as though He were an adversary to God, will believe in the Antichrist who will pronounce himself to be the god of all." Blessed Theodoret, Commentary on 2 Thessalonians

"The deceiver seeks to liken himself in all things to the Son of God. Christ is a lion, so Antichrist is also a lion. Christ is a king, so Antichrist is also a king. The Savior was manifested as a lamb, so he too in like manner will appear as a lamb without; within he is a wolf. The Savior came into the world in the circumcision [i.e., the Jewish race], and he will come in the same manner. . . . The Savior raised up and showed his holy flesh like a temple, and he will raise a temple of stone in Jerusalem" (The Antichrist 6 [A.D. 200]). St. Hyppolytus

Above all, moreover, he will love the nation of the Jews. And with all these [Jews] he will work signs and terrible wonders, false wonders and not true, in order to deceive his impious equals. . . . And after that he will build the temple in Jerusalem and will restore it again speedily and give it over to the Jews" (Discourse on the End of the World 23-25 [A.D. 217]). St. Hippolytus

"Having beguiled the Jews by the lying signs and wonders of his magical deceit, until they believe he is the expected Christ, he shall afterwards be characterized by all manner of wicked deeds of inhumanity and lawlessness, as if to outdo all the unjust and impious men who have gone before him. He shall display against all men, and especially against us Christians, a spirit that is murderous and most cruel, merciless and wily; and then he shall be destroyed by the glorious second coming from heaven of the only-begotten Son of God, our Lord and Savior Jesus, the true Christ, who shall destroy him with the breath of his mouth [2 Thess. 2:8], and deliver him over to the fire of Gehenna" (Catechetical Lectures 15:12 [A.D. 350]). St. Cyril of Jerusalem
« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 07:00:03 AM by peterchristian »
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Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #294 on: February 12, 2014, 10:18:45 AM »
"Lodges" are for adolescent men trying to escape the responsibilities of adulthood in incredibly unimaginative ways.

Chuckle...You DO know how right you are, don't you?
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Offline Sauron

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #295 on: February 12, 2014, 10:28:45 AM »
As we will read from their own pens, the the work and goal of Freemansonry is the building of the Third Jewish Temple in Jerusalem.  In keeping with this vision of theirs, the inner meeting house of masonry is designed in temple-like fashion.  See here http://www.grandlodge.gr/

As a former master of a Masonic lodge, I would like to unravel some of these falsehoods.

The "work and goal" of Masonry is to be a social club for retirees to grouse at each other while they drink bad coffee.

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #296 on: February 12, 2014, 10:42:43 AM »

The "work and goal" of Masonry is to be a social club for retirees to grouse at each other while they drink bad coffee.

Sounds like what happens at a Greek kafeneio.  :laugh:
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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #297 on: February 12, 2014, 11:09:36 AM »
As a former master of a Masonic lodge, I would like to unravel some of these falsehoods.
What was the strangest ritual?
« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 11:10:10 AM by rakovsky »
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Offline Sauron

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #298 on: February 12, 2014, 11:34:51 AM »
As a former master of a Masonic lodge, I would like to unravel some of these falsehoods.
What was the strangest ritual?

I think the word is "silly" more than "strange". Mostly it is being led around a room blindfolded while wearing pajamas. You would find everything to be pretty goofy.

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #299 on: February 12, 2014, 11:50:40 AM »
Hey Sauron:

How 'former' is your former Masonic-hood? I appreciate the whole 'old-guys sitting around drinking coffee' thing -- but did you get uncomfortable with some of the emerging trends? Like the Traditional Observance stuff?

I got the impression that a lot of the new guys coming in -- assisted by the Scottish Rite leadership -- really believed in the oogha-boogah part of Masonry. At least they despised the Judeo-Christian aspects of it.



As a former master of a Masonic lodge, I would like to unravel some of these falsehoods.
What was the strangest ritual?

I think the word is "silly" more than "strange". Mostly it is being led around a room blindfolded while wearing pajamas. You would find everything to be pretty goofy.

Offline rakovsky

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #300 on: February 12, 2014, 11:54:25 AM »
I think the word is "silly" more than "strange". Mostly it is being led around a room blindfolded while wearing pajamas. You would find everything to be pretty goofy.
Thanks. Do you feel comfortable talking about what they actually do, now that you are not a member and are only Christian?
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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #301 on: February 12, 2014, 12:06:01 PM »
You know that it's all online, I bet. Just run a Google search. It's all there.

I think the word is "silly" more than "strange". Mostly it is being led around a room blindfolded while wearing pajamas. You would find everything to be pretty goofy.
Thanks. Do you feel comfortable talking about what they actually do, now that you are not a member and are only Christian?

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #302 on: February 12, 2014, 12:38:00 PM »
You know that it's all online, I bet. Just run a Google search. It's all there.
What's "Traditional Observance?"

I read online there was a major split between the North and South Jurisdictions and there was some major reason for the split (not the Civil War). What could it have been?
The ocean, impassable by men, and the world beyond it are directed by the same ordinances of the Master. ~ I Clement 20

Offline Rambam

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #303 on: February 12, 2014, 12:54:06 PM »
I dunno about the "North vs. South." Sounds Scottish Rite though -- they've got a northern and southern jurisdiction. The Blue Lodge is state-based, and the Yorkies are like federalists -- a national-level organization with state-level organizations.

Anyhoo, the "Traditional Observance" movement is an effort in the U.S. to either charter new TO lodges or convert existing lodges into "TO" lodges. The stated idea of the TO movement is to bring back in the 'European traditions' of Masonry, to make the lodge meetings more contemplative, to emphasize the esotericism, etc. If a Mason were to visit to a TO lodge (at least in Oklahoma), you have to let the lodge know in advance and you have to wear either a black suit or tux.

In practicality, the TO lodge is a place where the 'muckety mucks' go without having to worry about hanging out with the regular old joes (the guys who drink the stale coffee). It's also got a decidedly anti-Christian approach, but I don't know if the people who are part of it buy into it or if they think it's what the 'new mason' wants.

 

You know that it's all online, I bet. Just run a Google search. It's all there.
What's "Traditional Observance?"

I read online there was a major split between the North and South Jurisdictions and there was some major reason for the split (not the Civil War). What could it have been?

Offline Sauron

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #304 on: February 12, 2014, 12:56:29 PM »
Hey Sauron:

How 'former' is your former Masonic-hood? I appreciate the whole 'old-guys sitting around drinking coffee' thing -- but did you get uncomfortable with some of the emerging trends? Like the Traditional Observance stuff?

I got the impression that a lot of the new guys coming in -- assisted by the Scottish Rite leadership -- really believed in the oogha-boogah part of Masonry. At least they despised the Judeo-Christian aspects of it.

My resignation was effective sometime last year.

I had to use Google to know what "Traditional Observance" was. I have no experience with it.

My impression of most of the men coming into the lodge, particularly the young ones (20s-40s), were those interested in something historical. We had one guy who was always talking about nutty theories concerning ancient Egypt and that sort of thing. Everyone thought he was a silly goofball who was not to be taken seriously. (I assume that is what you mean by "oogha-boogah")

I think a lot of people conflate the Scottish Rite and Blue Lodge and they also go on about Albert Pike when doing an anti-Mason rant. No one "speaks" for Masonry, and most Masons have never read a word Albert Pike had to say. I was in the Scottish Rite for a year, but I never went back after the initiation. Mostly they just perform plays.

Even if I didn't leave for reasons of the Church, I would have dropped out anyway. It was just annoying. It might be worthwhile if it were still an organization of community leaders who wanted to do some good, but mostly it is old codgers fighting over turf and collecting titles.

Thanks. Do you feel comfortable talking about what they actually do, now that you are not a member and are only Christian?

Sure, that's fine. A lot of the stuff online as far as the degrees go is pretty accurate, though, as far as I can tell.

Offline Rambam

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #305 on: February 12, 2014, 01:04:18 PM »
Hey Sauron:

Maybe you can speak to something that's always bothered me about the Scottish Rite. How on earth do these old codgers, who would normally be found in their home-town Methodist, DoC, Baptist, etc., churches on Sundays, not have any problem with the junk they see going on during the typical Scottish Rite reunion? You sat through the degrees -- I don't know of any other group that combine 'crazy' with 'boring' as deftly as the Scottish Rite -- so, how does Joe Blow from Podunk, Okla. (or any small town) tolerate the that nonsense? Are they just compartmentalizing it? "Well, it's all symbolic, so who knows what it really means? Besides, I'm here for the fellowship."

I just don't understand how the run-of-the-mill good-old-boy Christian can tolerate what gets put on the stage in the typical Scottish Rite degree.


Hey Sauron:

How 'former' is your former Masonic-hood? I appreciate the whole 'old-guys sitting around drinking coffee' thing -- but did you get uncomfortable with some of the emerging trends? Like the Traditional Observance stuff?

I got the impression that a lot of the new guys coming in -- assisted by the Scottish Rite leadership -- really believed in the oogha-boogah part of Masonry. At least they despised the Judeo-Christian aspects of it.

My resignation was effective sometime last year.

I had to use Google to know what "Traditional Observance" was. I have no experience with it.

My impression of most of the men coming into the lodge, particularly the young ones (20s-40s), were those interested in something historical. We had one guy who was always talking about nutty theories concerning ancient Egypt and that sort of thing. Everyone thought he was a silly goofball who was not to be taken seriously. (I assume that is what you mean by "oogha-boogah")

I think a lot of people conflate the Scottish Rite and Blue Lodge and they also go on about Albert Pike when doing an anti-Mason rant. No one "speaks" for Masonry, and most Masons have never read a word Albert Pike had to say. I was in the Scottish Rite for a year, but I never went back after the initiation. Mostly they just perform plays.

Even if I didn't leave for reasons of the Church, I would have dropped out anyway. It was just annoying. It might be worthwhile if it were still an organization of community leaders who wanted to do some good, but mostly it is old codgers fighting over turf and collecting titles.

Thanks. Do you feel comfortable talking about what they actually do, now that you are not a member and are only Christian?

Sure, that's fine. A lot of the stuff online as far as the degrees go is pretty accurate, though, as far as I can tell.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 01:05:31 PM by Rambam »

Offline rakovsky

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #306 on: February 12, 2014, 01:46:09 PM »
Sure, that's fine. A lot of the stuff online as far as the degrees go is pretty accurate, though, as far as I can tell.
Thanks. If you were the lodge master, doesn't that mean you would have to be familiar with all the rituals, up to the 33 degree, unless you were in the York Rite?
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Offline rakovsky

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #307 on: February 12, 2014, 01:47:05 PM »
Rambam,

I just don't understand how the run-of-the-mill good-old-boy Christian can tolerate what gets put on the stage in the typical Scottish Rite degree.
What would be the most jarring thing?
« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 02:06:13 PM by rakovsky »
The ocean, impassable by men, and the world beyond it are directed by the same ordinances of the Master. ~ I Clement 20

Offline Rambam

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #308 on: February 12, 2014, 01:54:35 PM »
Masters should know the first 3. The "4-33" degrees are a Scottish Rite thing. The SR used to have their own set of "1-33" but they dropped their first three to accommodate the Blue Lodge.

The York Rite actually continues the Blue Lodge work. That set of degrees used to culminate in the Royal Arch, though in recent centuries, the Council and Commandery degrees were added.



Sure, that's fine. A lot of the stuff online as far as the degrees go is pretty accurate, though, as far as I can tell.
Thanks. If you were the lodge master, doesn't that mean you would have to be familiar with all the rituals, up to the 33 degree, unless you were in the York Rite?

Offline Rambam

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #309 on: February 12, 2014, 02:06:53 PM »
You mean, specifically in the SR degrees? I worked on a few SR degree teams in my decade in Masonry -- and this is from my experience. Each "Valley" can do the degrees differently, and they may also re-write degrees at any time, apparently. At least, I had to relearn my part a couple of times because it kept changing.

Anyway, the bit where they have the candidate stomp the pope's hat is certainly a "Whoah" moment. Though the average Methodist/Baptist probably digs it. For me, the problematic thing was they would include "Christ" alongside Mithras, Isis, Zeus, etc. Mostly, it's just casual association in the ritual, but the meaning is plain: No one has the absolute claim on religious truth.

At night, after the degrees are over, the candidates would also gather in a room and listen to one of the SR dignitaries offer his 'take' on what they saw during the day. There's a lot of emphasis on King Solomon's turn toward pagan worship, and they use this to explain that the Temple was built to deify many different Gods.

The dignitaries would always couch this stuff as 'their own opinions,' but the candidates just ate it up with a spoon.

I just don't understand how the run-of-the-mill good-old-boy Christian can tolerate what gets put on the stage in the typical Scottish Rite degree.
What would be the most jarring thing?

Offline rakovsky

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #310 on: February 12, 2014, 02:18:19 PM »
Anyway, the bit where they have the candidate stomp the pope's hat is certainly a "Whoah" moment. Though the average Methodist/Baptist probably digs it.

At night, after the degrees are over, the candidates would also gather in a room and listen to one of the SR dignitaries offer his 'take' on what they saw during the day. There's a lot of emphasis on King Solomon's turn toward pagan worship, and they use this to explain that the Temple was built to deify many different Gods.
The stomping on the Pope hat is the most surprising for me.

It certainly disproves all those Papal conspiracy theories doesn't it?

I appreciate you sharing. I wonder what happens at the 33 level?

Peace.
The ocean, impassable by men, and the world beyond it are directed by the same ordinances of the Master. ~ I Clement 20

Offline Rambam

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #311 on: February 12, 2014, 03:02:18 PM »
Well, the 'pope's hat' trick could be subterfuge. Like yeshuahiailala says, those of us who occupied the 'lower levels' of Masonry really don't know what's going on at the top. Maybe the Pope's really at the top of the whole shindig. Who knows?

As for the 33rd ritual -- who knows. The joke is that candidates have to dance with Albert Pike -- he's actually buried at the House of the Temple in D.C. where they do the 33rd degree, so maybe they pull out old Al's bones and really dance with it. Beats me.

Funny story: I went and visited the House of the Temple in D.C. a few years back and got the tour. They take us into the big lodge room, which is where this is:



I ask the guy what the Hebrew means, and he says something like "It says, 'God said let there be light, and there was no light.'

I had to ask him again -- "No light?"  Then he 'corrected' himself -- says he didn't mean to say 'no.' I figured he didn't mean to say it either, but it was one of those 'spine tingly' moments.

Alas, if only I knew some folks who spoke Hebrew. To this very day, this particular mystery is lost to the ages.



Anyway, the bit where they have the candidate stomp the pope's hat is certainly a "Whoah" moment. Though the average Methodist/Baptist probably digs it.

At night, after the degrees are over, the candidates would also gather in a room and listen to one of the SR dignitaries offer his 'take' on what they saw during the day. There's a lot of emphasis on King Solomon's turn toward pagan worship, and they use this to explain that the Temple was built to deify many different Gods.
The stomping on the Pope hat is the most surprising for me.

It certainly disproves all those Papal conspiracy theories doesn't it?

I appreciate you sharing. I wonder what happens at the 33 level?

Peace.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 03:02:34 PM by Rambam »

Offline rakovsky

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #312 on: February 12, 2014, 03:30:20 PM »
In Hebrew, the full verse (Gen. 1:3), from http://biblehub.com/text/genesis/1-3.htm is:

ויאמר אלהים יהי אור    ויהי־    אור
The last two words are:  "And let there be"     "light".
Notice the ־ in the word ויהי־ ("way hi." and let there be)
Perhaps this is just a script issue. In any case, the word "no" is not there.

Anyway, its modern rise was in the period called "the Enlightenment", so perhaps it is no surprise it mentions this verse.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 03:32:00 PM by rakovsky »
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Offline Rambam

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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #313 on: February 12, 2014, 03:42:20 PM »
Thanks rakovsky. This is why I love this board.

"Let there be light" is a big part of Blue Lodge masonry, too. Which is why what I thought the SR tour guide said was strange. I thought, for a moment, that folks like yeshulialaiala were right -- that when you get to the top, Masonry is the exact opposite of what you thought it was. Turns out, I just had too much ear wax in my head to hear right.

In Hebrew, the full verse (Gen. 1:3), from http://biblehub.com/text/genesis/1-3.htm is:

ויאמר אלהים יהי אור    ויהי־    אור
The last two words are:  "And let there be"     "light".
Notice the ־ in the word ויהי־ ("way hi." and let there be)
Perhaps this is just a script issue. In any case, the word "no" is not there.

Anyway, its modern rise was in the period called "the Enlightenment", so perhaps it is no surprise it mentions this verse.


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Re: Illuminati & Freemasons
« Reply #314 on: February 12, 2014, 03:59:16 PM »

The "work and goal" of Masonry is to be a social club for retirees to grouse at each other while they drink bad coffee.


This, in my opinion, is true.  At least for the last century or so.  

As I've mentioned before in this thread or a related one, there remains a small and quirky esoteric group within or on the fringes of Masonry, but most are exploring the same stuff that's been around (and largely discarded) for a long time, e.g. Rosicrucianism.  The theosophical religious studies component of the Blue Lodge and Scottish Rite are based a great deal on 18th and 19th century study, speculation, and now largely disproven "connections," e.g. the Hindu Trimurti being related to the Xtian one.

For a supposedly intellectual fraternity that prides itself in being the vanguard of studying the Seven Liberal Arts of grammar, rhetoric, logic, arithmetic, geometry, music, and astronomy, I'm not aware of its members contributing much to them in the last hundred-odd years.  Ok, Buzz Aldrin was a mason, but I'm guessing he learned his astronauting outside of the lodge.
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