OrthodoxChristianity.net
September 16, 2014, 01:51:12 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Am I a Slav?  (Read 1976 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Charles Martel
Traditional Roman Catholic
Moderated
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic
Jurisdiction: New york
Posts: 3,143


« Reply #45 on: February 23, 2013, 03:08:35 PM »

I have heard that the term "Slav" came from what the Romans referred to those people  brought in from outside the Empire as slaves.
 So Slav is really a derivitive  from the word slave.

Any truth in this?
Quote

Slav Look up Slav at Dictionary.com
    late 14c., Sclave, from Medieval Latin Sclavus (c.800), from Byzantine Greek Sklabos (c.580), from Old Church Slavonic Sloveninu "a Slav," probably related to slovo "word, speech," which suggests the name originally meant member of a speech community (cf. Old Church Slavonic Nemici "Germans," related to nemu "dumb;" and cf. Old English þeode, which meant both "race" and "language").
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Slav
Grin
Logged

Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.
Charles Martel
Traditional Roman Catholic
Moderated
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic
Jurisdiction: New york
Posts: 3,143


« Reply #46 on: February 23, 2013, 03:12:20 PM »

I have heard that the term "Slav" came from what the Romans referred to those people  brought in from outside the Empire as slaves.
 So Slav is really a derivitive  from the word slave.

Any truth in this?
Quote

Slav Look up Slav at Dictionary.com
    late 14c., Sclave, from Medieval Latin Sclavus (c.800), from Byzantine Greek Sklabos (c.580), from Old Church Slavonic Sloveninu "a Slav," probably related to slovo "word, speech," which suggests the name originally meant member of a speech community (cf. Old Church Slavonic Nemici "Germans," related to nemu "dumb;" and cf. Old English þeode, which meant both "race" and "language").
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Slav
ah, you conveniently left this part out JMichael.

Identical with the -slav in personal names (e.g. Russian Miroslav, literally "peaceful fame;" Mstislav "vengeful fame;" Jaroslav "famed for fury;" Czech Bohuslav "God's glory;" and cf. Wenceslas). Spelled Slave c.1788-1866, influenced by French and German Slave.
Logged

Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.
J Michael
Older than dirt; dumber than a box of rocks; colossally ignorant; a little crazy ;-)
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 10,103


Lord, have mercy! I live under a rock. Alleluia!


« Reply #47 on: February 23, 2013, 03:44:51 PM »

I have heard that the term "Slav" came from what the Romans referred to those people  brought in from outside the Empire as slaves.
 So Slav is really a derivitive  from the word slave.

Any truth in this?
Quote

Slav Look up Slav at Dictionary.com
    late 14c., Sclave, from Medieval Latin Sclavus (c.800), from Byzantine Greek Sklabos (c.580), from Old Church Slavonic Sloveninu "a Slav," probably related to slovo "word, speech," which suggests the name originally meant member of a speech community (cf. Old Church Slavonic Nemici "Germans," related to nemu "dumb;" and cf. Old English þeode, which meant both "race" and "language").
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Slav
ah, you conveniently left this part out JMichael.

Identical with the -slav in personal names (e.g. Russian Miroslav, literally "peaceful fame;" Mstislav "vengeful fame;" Jaroslav "famed for fury;" Czech Bohuslav "God's glory;" and cf. Wenceslas). Spelled Slave c.1788-1866, influenced by French and German Slave.


Actually, Charles Martel, I left it out inconveniently.  Grin
Logged

"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)
Velsigne
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 448



« Reply #48 on: February 23, 2013, 04:01:03 PM »

In my case, 2 different doctors had forms asking me to identify my race and ethnic origins, and it turned out the Government is collecting this information.



Was that in a government facility, like a Veterans hospital or something?  I don't recall being asked detailed information about ethnicity by any doctor, though there was one family practice doctor several years ago, who was filling in for the regular doctor, and he asked quite detailed information about ethnicity, including all sorts of questions about my religion and Orthodoxy.  Seems more like it was his personal interest.   Or maybe he just typed in: "RELIGIOUS NUTCAKE!" in my file.   lol

Finland is a promised land of statistics but if some goverment here tried to gather information about ethnic origin of people it would soon be out of office. Finnish state makes statistics about where people come from instead of ethnicity. Only people here who talk about human races are Neo-Nazis.

Native Americans are the only people required to show actual blood lineage to prove that they are Native to these lands.  There is a cut-off point when "blood" becomes so dilute that they can no longer carry paperwork proving they are Native American, and are no longer eligible for special government benefits and so forth.  There were treaties between the existing people and the people who came from Europe and settled, some were honored, some not.

No one else is required to do that, so what is the point unless you want special assistance due to minority status, like getting into jobs or competitive education programs because there are quotas to fill.   There are also those types of programs for the handicapped too.  There is probably a more politically correct term for handicapped now, I just can't think of it at the moment.  Other people have other means of getting preferential treatment, like Masons, or secret groups inside unions, Mormons giving preference to people from their church, are just a few I've seen firsthand.    

And there have been actual internment of people based on ethnicity in the United States, such as Germans during the World Wars, and Italians and Japanese during WWII.  They were rounded up and held in camps because they weren't trusted.  

Just as a historical footnote, the man who was assigned by the government to round up Japanese Americans for internment was the same man who later was given orders from the President's desk to find a way for the government to buy up Native American land through less than honorable means.  The memo from the President's desk was something to the effect of "Find Myer [Dillon S. Myer] I have a ****** *** job for him to do."  

I noticed some five or so years ago the government under Homeland Security was still spending money on building camps, the big contractors openly state that they've been awarded the projects, and I don't know what or who they are for.  It could be anyone, depending on the political climate of the time.

The long way round to Tikhon of Colorado, question, is that we should want to be a member of the body of Christ rather than check off three hundred different boxes on a form, and demand the government have a box for that too Smiley

If people can demand that there be a Klingon interpreter at the courthouse....

edit to correct OP name
« Last Edit: February 23, 2013, 04:06:58 PM by Velsigne » Logged
J Michael
Older than dirt; dumber than a box of rocks; colossally ignorant; a little crazy ;-)
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 10,103


Lord, have mercy! I live under a rock. Alleluia!


« Reply #49 on: February 23, 2013, 04:36:56 PM »

In my case, 2 different doctors had forms asking me to identify my race and ethnic origins, and it turned out the Government is collecting this information.



Was that in a government facility, like a Veterans hospital or something?  I don't recall being asked detailed information about ethnicity by any doctor, though there was one family practice doctor several years ago, who was filling in for the regular doctor, and he asked quite detailed information about ethnicity, including all sorts of questions about my religion and Orthodoxy.  Seems more like it was his personal interest.   Or maybe he just typed in: "RELIGIOUS NUTCAKE!" in my file.   lol

Finland is a promised land of statistics but if some goverment here tried to gather information about ethnic origin of people it would soon be out of office. Finnish state makes statistics about where people come from instead of ethnicity. Only people here who talk about human races are Neo-Nazis.

Native Americans are the only people required to show actual blood lineage to prove that they are Native to these lands.  There is a cut-off point when "blood" becomes so dilute that they can no longer carry paperwork proving they are Native American, and are no longer eligible for special government benefits and so forth.  There were treaties between the existing people and the people who came from Europe and settled, some were honored, some not.

No one else is required to do that, so what is the point unless you want special assistance due to minority status, like getting into jobs or competitive education programs because there are quotas to fill.   There are also those types of programs for the handicapped too.  There is probably a more politically correct term for handicapped now, I just can't think of it at the moment.  Other people have other means of getting preferential treatment, like Masons, or secret groups inside unions, Mormons giving preference to people from their church, are just a few I've seen firsthand.    

And there have been actual internment of people based on ethnicity in the United States, such as Germans during the World Wars, and Italians and Japanese during WWII.  They were rounded up and held in camps because they weren't trusted.  

Just as a historical footnote, the man who was assigned by the government to round up Japanese Americans for internment was the same man who later was given orders from the President's desk to find a way for the government to buy up Native American land through less than honorable means.  The memo from the President's desk was something to the effect of "Find Myer [Dillon S. Myer] I have a ****** *** job for him to do."  

I noticed some five or so years ago the government under Homeland Security was still spending money on building camps, the big contractors openly state that they've been awarded the projects, and I don't know what or who they are for.  It could be anyone, depending on the political climate of the time.

The long way round to Tikhon of Colorado, question, is that we should want to be a member of the body of Christ rather than check off three hundred different boxes on a form, and demand the government have a box for that too Smiley

If people can demand that there be a Klingon interpreter at the courthouse....

edit to correct OP name

Mark 12:17 "And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's."
« Last Edit: February 23, 2013, 04:38:52 PM by J Michael » Logged

"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)
Velsigne
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 448



« Reply #50 on: February 23, 2013, 05:04:17 PM »


Mark 12:17 "And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's."


Sorry, not getting your point.  Do you think your body belongs to Caesar.  In the world not of it. In Christ no Greek nor Jew male nor female.
Logged
brastaseptim
Protopsáltis
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine Catholic Archeparchy of Pittsburgh
Posts: 920


From BBC Louisiana to you, here's the morning news


« Reply #51 on: February 23, 2013, 06:02:26 PM »

Technically speaking, yes you are by heritage. However, that doesn't mean you're actually a different race- ethnic group  and race are very different. For example, I'm technically a half-English American with dual citizenship, and a half-French, half-Irish ancestry. But despite my ethnicity, (or because of it)  I'm still counted as very Caucasian.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2013, 06:03:40 PM by brastaseptim » Logged

BBC news certified; The Guardian rejected; OC.net approved.
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,780



« Reply #52 on: February 23, 2013, 07:34:24 PM »

Once a Slav always a Slav. Sorry mate.

Does that go backwards in time? Here is an anecdote from a few decades ago. I was coordinating some joint activities with Egyptian officers for a field exercise. Thet kept looking at me and talking among themselves. Finally, one of them told me "you are Saudi and you know Arabic." I protested that I was not Saudi, that I was of Macedono-Bulgrain descent, and did not know Arabic. I could not persuade them, so when they consulted with each other, they made sure that they were well beyond my hearing. Afterwards, I got to thinking: I did have the facial characteristics of a Bedouin (nose, lips and chin), but how did that happen? Possible answer: the Arab raids into the Balkans in the Seventh Century and a resultant gene that survived across the centuries.

« Last Edit: February 23, 2013, 07:36:55 PM by Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) » Logged

Michal: "SC, love you in this thread."
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,780



« Reply #53 on: February 23, 2013, 07:38:46 PM »

Once a Slav always a Slav. Sorry mate.

But...are all Slavs all Slav?  Does one have to be all Slav to be a Slav?  How much Slav does it take to be a Slav?  Cheesy
Not much evidently: the Czar, hope of the Pan-Slavists, was only 1/8 by descent Slav.

I'm not exactly a Monarchist or a Tsarist but after reading about too many wars between various national groups having a ruler born of multicultural familyline does sound a quite symphatetic idea.

No, it's not. I'm not Russian and do not want to be one.

But, aren't you Belorussian?
Logged

Michal: "SC, love you in this thread."
J Michael
Older than dirt; dumber than a box of rocks; colossally ignorant; a little crazy ;-)
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 10,103


Lord, have mercy! I live under a rock. Alleluia!


« Reply #54 on: February 23, 2013, 08:36:27 PM »


Mark 12:17 "And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's."


Sorry, not getting your point.  Do you think your body belongs to Caesar.  In the world not of it. In Christ no Greek nor Jew male nor female.

Uh...no, I don't.  You really didn't get my point.  Sorry for my lack of clarity.

It's not an either/or proposition.  You can be a member (or want to be a member) of the Body of Christ AND check off a bunch of boxes for the gummint.  Doing so doesn't affect your membership in any way, shape, or form.  There's no requirement that you must like doing so, though, or feel that it's not some kind of intrusion on your privacy.
Logged

"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)
Velsigne
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 448



« Reply #55 on: February 24, 2013, 03:46:53 AM »


Mark 12:17 "And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's."


Sorry, not getting your point.  Do you think your body belongs to Caesar.  In the world not of it. In Christ no Greek nor Jew male nor female.

Uh...no, I don't.  You really didn't get my point.  Sorry for my lack of clarity.

It's not an either/or proposition.  You can be a member (or want to be a member) of the Body of Christ AND check off a bunch of boxes for the gummint.  Doing so doesn't affect your membership in any way, shape, or form.  There's no requirement that you must like doing so, though, or feel that it's not some kind of intrusion on your privacy.

 Smiley  Ah, how funny.  Earlier on this thread someone didn't get your sense of humour, and it seems maybe you didn't get mine either.   I was sort of joking with Tikhon to insist the government add yet another box to check off in an every growing list of boxes and ethnic identities, that would greatly simplify and streamline the process.   Of course we've been pretty much guaranteed, were that line item to exist on the ethnicity chart, that we will be hated for checking it.   It also harks back to the old millet system.

Okay, I'm done trying to be funny.  Don't worry!  I'll keep my day job Smiley
Logged
Tikhon.of.Colorado
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Ruthenian Greek Catholic
Jurisdiction: Eparchy of Pheonix
Posts: 2,362



« Reply #56 on: February 24, 2013, 04:03:35 AM »

Hi, everyone.  Sorry I haven't been round to this thread to check up on the conversation going on.

I've just marked "white."

Let me explain without this turning into a rant...

If you tick "Slavic," you're required to submit an essay about your Slovenian heritage.  I should hope that this university knows that the Slovenes aren't the only Slavs.

Is outrage! 
Logged

"It is true that I am not always faithful, but I never lose courage, I leave myself in the Arms of Our Lord." - St. Thérèse of Lisieux
Velsigne
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 448



« Reply #57 on: February 24, 2013, 04:20:08 AM »

Hi, everyone.  Sorry I haven't been round to this thread to check up on the conversation going on.

I've just marked "white."

Let me explain without this turning into a rant...

If you tick "Slavic," you're required to submit an essay about your Slovenian heritage.  I should hope that this university knows that the Slovenes aren't the only Slavs.

Is outrage! 

Well, hopefully they won't make you write an essay about the Caucasus either.
Logged
Tikhon.of.Colorado
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Ruthenian Greek Catholic
Jurisdiction: Eparchy of Pheonix
Posts: 2,362



« Reply #58 on: February 24, 2013, 04:20:36 AM »

Hi, everyone.  Sorry I haven't been round to this thread to check up on the conversation going on.

I've just marked "white."

Let me explain without this turning into a rant...

If you tick "Slavic," you're required to submit an essay about your Slovenian heritage.  I should hope that this university knows that the Slovenes aren't the only Slavs.

Is outrage! 

Well, hopefully they won't make you write an essay about the Caucasus either.
laugh
Logged

"It is true that I am not always faithful, but I never lose courage, I leave myself in the Arms of Our Lord." - St. Thérèse of Lisieux
Charles Martel
Traditional Roman Catholic
Moderated
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic
Jurisdiction: New york
Posts: 3,143


« Reply #59 on: February 24, 2013, 06:47:10 AM »

Once a Slav always a Slav. Sorry mate.

Does that go backwards in time? Here is an anecdote from a few decades ago. I was coordinating some joint activities with Egyptian officers for a field exercise. Thet kept looking at me and talking among themselves. Finally, one of them told me "you are Saudi and you know Arabic." I protested that I was not Saudi, that I was of Macedono-Bulgrain descent, and did not know Arabic. I could not persuade them, so when they consulted with each other, they made sure that they were well beyond my hearing. Afterwards, I got to thinking: I did have the facial characteristics of a Bedouin (nose, lips and chin), but how did that happen? Possible answer: the Arab raids into the Balkans in the Seventh Century and a resultant gene that survived across the centuries.


I'm sure there were a few Arabs in that invading Ottoman Army.


I'm half-Sicilian, I've been mistaken for a Greek or even Lebonese plenty of times.

Sicily is one of the most conquered parts of Europe, bloodlines can be very diverse. I even know some blonde, blue-eyed Sicilians, probably descended from the Normans when they invaded centuries ago. no one can really tell what's exactly in their lineage only things that are blatantly obvious like ethnic  genetics makeup and language.
Logged

Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.
Charles Martel
Traditional Roman Catholic
Moderated
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic
Jurisdiction: New york
Posts: 3,143


« Reply #60 on: February 24, 2013, 06:48:44 AM »

I have heard that the term "Slav" came from what the Romans referred to those people  brought in from outside the Empire as slaves.
 So Slav is really a derivitive  from the word slave.

Any truth in this?
Quote

Slav Look up Slav at Dictionary.com
    late 14c., Sclave, from Medieval Latin Sclavus (c.800), from Byzantine Greek Sklabos (c.580), from Old Church Slavonic Sloveninu "a Slav," probably related to slovo "word, speech," which suggests the name originally meant member of a speech community (cf. Old Church Slavonic Nemici "Germans," related to nemu "dumb;" and cf. Old English þeode, which meant both "race" and "language").
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Slav
ah, you conveniently left this part out JMichael.

Identical with the -slav in personal names (e.g. Russian Miroslav, literally "peaceful fame;" Mstislav "vengeful fame;" Jaroslav "famed for fury;" Czech Bohuslav "God's glory;" and cf. Wenceslas). Spelled Slave c.1788-1866, influenced by French and German Slave.


Actually, Charles Martel, I left it out inconveniently.  Grin
Ah, I see that. Wink
Logged

Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.
Strongylocentrotus
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 36



« Reply #61 on: March 17, 2013, 04:42:59 AM »

Slav can also mean glory as in pravoslavie or true glory or true fame.  Similiar to what I was told Ortho Doxa means in Greek.  You live in America, be what you want.  Do you like the Polish?   Do you have attachment to the pretzels and beer?  The Marxist philosph Eric Hobsbawm say that ethnicity is self ascribed. So ascribe yourself!  Being ascribed by others is pointless.  I make a point for you.  Next door is a people who speak like Bulgarians, have cultural like Bulgarians, have the same History as Bulgarians , they even shake their head from side to say to say yes like Bulgarians, but since the end of WWII they call themselves Macedonians and Slavs, while at the same time accusing us of being Mongols and Turks!  Of course the Greeks don't agree and call them FYROM.  My own family is a good point.  We are from little village in what was Ottoman Empir called Kukush (Kilkitsi in Turkish, Kilkis in Greek)  It is now after a short stay in Bulgaria, in Greece.  Like the Mexicanitsi say, I didn't cross the border,the border crossed me, na li?  Kukush is the home of great revolutionary hero Gotse Deltchev also.  Our family name is Palev, during the Balkan wars, some of us went to Bulgaria to escape the Turks and the Greeks and the Serbians.  Those that couldn't escape Kuskush, now Kilkkis, were renamed Palou by the Greeks, (they even changed the headstones in the grobishta) who say that there are no slavs living in Greece, only slavophone Greeks; the ones who ended up in Serbian controlled Macedonia were renamed Palevic and rechristened Serbs.  These poor folks were again renamed Palevsky after WWII and are now proud Macedonians.  While the rest of us are Palev and Bulgarian, nore or less.  Same family, same genealogy, same history, same village, three different nationalities.  Four if you count the Osmanli.  So pick one or pick none.
Logged
mike
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,467


WWW
« Reply #62 on: March 17, 2013, 10:16:01 AM »

Nice family story.

(no sarcasm intended)

On the other hand I do not believe in unlimited self-ascribing of nationality. If you don't have some roots, if you are not related to a nationality in any way, if you hadn't been brought up in it ascribing some random one found on the Internet would be just LARP-ing.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2013, 10:18:04 AM by Michał Kalina » Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
William
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: None
Posts: 4,313


« Reply #63 on: March 24, 2013, 08:18:02 PM »

Slav can also mean glory as in pravoslavie or true glory or true fame.  Similiar to what I was told Ortho Doxa means in Greek.  You live in America, be what you want.  Do you like the Polish?   Do you have attachment to the pretzels and beer?  The Marxist philosph Eric Hobsbawm say that ethnicity is self ascribed. So ascribe yourself!  Being ascribed by others is pointless.  I make a point for you.  Next door is a people who speak like Bulgarians, have cultural like Bulgarians, have the same History as Bulgarians , they even shake their head from side to say to say yes like Bulgarians, but since the end of WWII they call themselves Macedonians and Slavs, while at the same time accusing us of being Mongols and Turks!  Of course the Greeks don't agree and call them FYROM.  My own family is a good point.  We are from little village in what was Ottoman Empir called Kukush (Kilkitsi in Turkish, Kilkis in Greek)  It is now after a short stay in Bulgaria, in Greece.  Like the Mexicanitsi say, I didn't cross the border,the border crossed me, na li?  Kukush is the home of great revolutionary hero Gotse Deltchev also.  Our family name is Palev, during the Balkan wars, some of us went to Bulgaria to escape the Turks and the Greeks and the Serbians.  Those that couldn't escape Kuskush, now Kilkkis, were renamed Palou by the Greeks, (they even changed the headstones in the grobishta) who say that there are no slavs living in Greece, only slavophone Greeks; the ones who ended up in Serbian controlled Macedonia were renamed Palevic and rechristened Serbs.  These poor folks were again renamed Palevsky after WWII and are now proud Macedonians.  While the rest of us are Palev and Bulgarian, nore or less.  Same family, same genealogy, same history, same village, three different nationalities.  Four if you count the Osmanli.  So pick one or pick none.

This guy seriously needs to post a lot more.
Logged

Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant
Cyrillic
Merarches
***********
Online Online

Posts: 9,191


Ceci n'est pas une pipe


« Reply #64 on: March 27, 2013, 08:48:22 AM »

Slav can also mean glory as in pravoslavie or true glory or true fame.  Similiar to what I was told Ortho Doxa means in Greek.  You live in America, be what you want.  Do you like the Polish?   Do you have attachment to the pretzels and beer?  The Marxist philosph Eric Hobsbawm say that ethnicity is self ascribed. So ascribe yourself!  Being ascribed by others is pointless.  I make a point for you.  Next door is a people who speak like Bulgarians, have cultural like Bulgarians, have the same History as Bulgarians , they even shake their head from side to say to say yes like Bulgarians, but since the end of WWII they call themselves Macedonians and Slavs, while at the same time accusing us of being Mongols and Turks!  Of course the Greeks don't agree and call them FYROM.  My own family is a good point.  We are from little village in what was Ottoman Empir called Kukush (Kilkitsi in Turkish, Kilkis in Greek)  It is now after a short stay in Bulgaria, in Greece.  Like the Mexicanitsi say, I didn't cross the border,the border crossed me, na li?  Kukush is the home of great revolutionary hero Gotse Deltchev also.  Our family name is Palev, during the Balkan wars, some of us went to Bulgaria to escape the Turks and the Greeks and the Serbians.  Those that couldn't escape Kuskush, now Kilkkis, were renamed Palou by the Greeks, (they even changed the headstones in the grobishta) who say that there are no slavs living in Greece, only slavophone Greeks; the ones who ended up in Serbian controlled Macedonia were renamed Palevic and rechristened Serbs.  These poor folks were again renamed Palevsky after WWII and are now proud Macedonians.  While the rest of us are Palev and Bulgarian, nore or less.  Same family, same genealogy, same history, same village, three different nationalities.  Four if you count the Osmanli.  So pick one or pick none.

This guy seriously needs to post a lot more.

Yes. We don't have enough debates on FYROM in this forum....
« Last Edit: March 27, 2013, 08:49:07 AM by Cyrillic » Logged

"But slay her he did not, for between dream and deed laws and practicalities remain"
-Willem Elschot, 'The Marriage'.
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,780



« Reply #65 on: March 27, 2013, 11:18:58 AM »

Slav can also mean glory as in pravoslavie or true glory or true fame.  Similiar to what I was told Ortho Doxa means in Greek.  You live in America, be what you want.  Do you like the Polish?   Do you have attachment to the pretzels and beer?  The Marxist philosph Eric Hobsbawm say that ethnicity is self ascribed. So ascribe yourself!  Being ascribed by others is pointless.  I make a point for you.  Next door is a people who speak like Bulgarians, have cultural like Bulgarians, have the same History as Bulgarians , they even shake their head from side to say to say yes like Bulgarians, but since the end of WWII they call themselves Macedonians and Slavs, while at the same time accusing us of being Mongols and Turks!  Of course the Greeks don't agree and call them FYROM.  My own family is a good point.  We are from little village in what was Ottoman Empir called Kukush (Kilkitsi in Turkish, Kilkis in Greek)  It is now after a short stay in Bulgaria, in Greece.  Like the Mexicanitsi say, I didn't cross the border,the border crossed me, na li?  Kukush is the home of great revolutionary hero Gotse Deltchev also.  Our family name is Palev, during the Balkan wars, some of us went to Bulgaria to escape the Turks and the Greeks and the Serbians.  Those that couldn't escape Kuskush, now Kilkkis, were renamed Palou by the Greeks, (they even changed the headstones in the grobishta) who say that there are no slavs living in Greece, only slavophone Greeks; the ones who ended up in Serbian controlled Macedonia were renamed Palevic and rechristened Serbs.  These poor folks were again renamed Palevsky after WWII and are now proud Macedonians.  While the rest of us are Palev and Bulgarian, nore or less.  Same family, same genealogy, same history, same village, three different nationalities.  Four if you count the Osmanli.  So pick one or pick none.

This guy seriously needs to post a lot more.

Yes. We don't have enough debates on FYROM in this forum....

Kukush/Kilkitsi/Kilkis is not in the territory of the Republic of Macedonia or the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia. A little history lesson on this town:

"By the mid-19th century Kilkis was a primarily Bulgarian-populated town. According to one estimate, there were about 500 Greeks, 500 Turks and 4500 Bulgarians in the town at the time. A 1873 Ottoman study concluded that the population of Kilkis consisted of 1,170 households of which there were 5,235 Bulgarian inhabitants, 155 Muslims and 40 Romani people. A Vasil Kanchov study of 1900 counted 7,000 Bulgarian and 750 Turkish inhabitants in the town. Another survey in 1905 established the presence of 9,712 Exarchists (Bulgarians--Carl), 40 Patriarchists (Greeks and other EO--Carl), 592 Uniate Christians and 16 Protestants."

"During the First Balkan War of 1912, the Ottoman Empire was defeated by the Balkan League and forced to concede almost all of its European territories, leaving Kilkis within the new boundaries of Bulgaria. In the Second Balkan War of 1913, the Greek army captured the city from the Bulgarians after the three-day Battle of Kilkis-Lahanas between June 19 and June 21....Kilkis was almost completely destroyed by the Greek Army during the battle and later and virtually all of its 7,000 pre-war Bulgarian inhabitants were expelled to Bulgaria. The new town was settled by Greeks transferred from Bulgaria, the Ottoman Empire and Yugoslavia, especially from Strumica..In the mid-1920s, after the Asia Minor Catastrophe, when Greece lost its Asia Minor territories to Turkey, waves of refugees came to Kilkis, thus giving a new boost to the region and contributing to the increase of its population..."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilkis#History
Logged

Michal: "SC, love you in this thread."
Tags:
Pages: « 1 2  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.133 seconds with 49 queries.