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Author Topic: Hitler's hate towards the Jews  (Read 9104 times) Average Rating: 0
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Charles Martel
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« Reply #45 on: April 05, 2013, 06:15:36 PM »

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a) There were no national states in Ancient Greece. Greeks had dozens of independent states who fought each other all the time

Nevertheless, they were each and independent "nation-states", this is 5th grade history 101. I can't believe your oblivious to this.

Quote
The idea of Jews moving to Madagascar appeared in the late XIXth century and was not invented by the Nazis.


Uhh, yea sure.Maybe you might want to cite some credible evidence for this.

Quote
Not all Jews were Zionists who supported the idea of Jewish state. And even among the Zionists there were at least 3 different opinions where to create it: Palestine, Uganda, Madagascar.


I don't think so, ask any Jew if he wouldn't mind settling down somewhere in Uganda......or that rather large island off the cost of Africa for that matter, again, you're reaching as usual.

Quote
Used by whom? Since when? How popularly?

Really Michal, do I really have to explain to you that the term "Judea" refers to the Jews themselves? Are you really that intellectually dishonest or just that much more clueless?
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« Reply #46 on: April 05, 2013, 06:22:47 PM »

Just my few cents, sorry for interruption.

Nevertheless, they were each and independent "nation-states", this is 5th grade history 101. I can't believe your oblivious to this.

The Greek poleis system is a tangle, and the term "nation" is XIX century invention, prior to that it's simply anachronism.

Uhh, yea sure.Maybe you might want to cite some credible evidence for this.

Kershaw, Ian. Hitler: 1936-1945: Nemesis. New York: Norton, 2000. pp.320-322
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« Reply #47 on: April 08, 2013, 01:26:05 AM »

He also hated homosexuals, Slavs, Roman Catholics and Blacks. And he most likely would have hated Muslims too once he was done using them in the Middle East, and probably Latin Americans if there were any in Europe. Ultimately, I think his hatred was more inspired by radical patriotism, since Europe has always had a fetish for nationalism. I think the racism was probably the product of his patriotism to demonize the enemy.

Yes but only anti-Semitism was fundamental to the rhetoric and platform of the Nazi Party. Hitler actively collaborated with both Catholics and "Slavs" (see the Nazi-Soviet Pact, or Russian Liberation Army), especially in the earlier years of his dictatorship.

Adolf Hitler was a genius manipulator and lied for propoganda purposes. He hated Christianity as well, but used it to deceive people. My thoughts are that Hitler merely exploited Europe's already-existing anti-Semitic attitude for political purposes, and collaborated with Catholics and Slavs for political purposes. Same reason why he spoke about God and Christ in his speeches, even though he himself was an atheist and saw Christianity as the bastardization of Judaism needing to be eradicated.

I agree with a lot of what you say, but it's not enough. It's one thing to hate a person and another to have him exterminated. Even in war it was found soldiers might fire over the heads of the enemy because they didn't want to kill them - which is why in drill they try and demonize the enemy by calling them something such as "Gook", etc. - anything to dehumanise them
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« Reply #48 on: April 08, 2013, 07:02:40 AM »

Nevertheless, they were each and independent "nation-states", this is 5th grade history 101. I can't believe your oblivious to this.

So how these nations were different since they all practices the same religion, had the same culture. spoke the same language, and had the same religious beliefs?

Quote
I don't think so, ask any Jew if he wouldn't mind settling down somewhere in Uganda......or that rather large island off the cost of Africa for that matter, again

In the early XXth century? Many. Herzl and his supporters for example.

Quote
Really Michal, do I really have to explain to you that the term "Judea" refers to the Jews themselves?

You should prove that the term "Judea" was used in the 1930' by public opinion to describe Jewish socio-national movement whose actions or decisions could be compared to the ones by an independent state. Only in this case your theories will be valid.
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« Reply #49 on: April 08, 2013, 07:42:23 AM »


What evidence do you have that Hitler intended to kill millions of Jews?  If you understand what led to the pogroms in Russia (which were not supported or sponsored by the State), the role of Jews in the Bolshevik Revolution, and the role of Jews in Germany at the time, it is not difficult to understand why Hitler would want them out of Germany.  From what I have seen, contrary to a great deal of misinformation that has been adopted as the supposedly "official story", Hitler did not seek to exterminate but rather to deport the Jews.  The camps were not set up as extermination camps but rather as work camps.  There is no evidence of human gas chambers, though gas was used in special closets to kill lice which was a problem in the camps.  When the US and the Allies destroyed the transportation infrastructure, they could not get adequate food and medical assistance to those in the camps, and so the plan to deport was not successful and many died in the camps of starvation and disease. 


Rubbish. My grandfather's first wife (not Jewish, either) was gassed at Auschwitz. My grandfather was pretty high up in the security guarding an ammunition factory using forced labour (mostly Slav) in north Germany (Pulverfabrik Liebenau to be precise) during the war. He knew what was going on. He said as much to my mother. People, certainly above a certain level, knew what was happening. A lot have said that they didn't but it's rubbish. Some people, such as my grandfather, were honest enough to admit that they knew but that they could do nothing about it. Any argument that there were no gas chambers is simply unsustainable. Hitler did intend to commit genocide (and not just against the Jews either). I honestly can't believe it when people fall for this rubbish, and as someone of German stock with a grandfather who guarded Slav prisoners forced to make ammunition and a great uncle in the Waffen SS you'd think I'd have more reason than many for wanting it covered up (except that I know my grandfather did whatever he could to help the poor people he found himself guarding), but I know that what you wrote was nonsense from the testimony of my own family.

James
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« Reply #50 on: April 08, 2013, 08:38:20 AM »


What evidence do you have that Hitler intended to kill millions of Jews?  If you understand what led to the pogroms in Russia (which were not supported or sponsored by the State), the role of Jews in the Bolshevik Revolution, and the role of Jews in Germany at the time, it is not difficult to understand why Hitler would want them out of Germany.  From what I have seen, contrary to a great deal of misinformation that has been adopted as the supposedly "official story", Hitler did not seek to exterminate but rather to deport the Jews.  The camps were not set up as extermination camps but rather as work camps.  There is no evidence of human gas chambers, though gas was used in special closets to kill lice which was a problem in the camps.  When the US and the Allies destroyed the transportation infrastructure, they could not get adequate food and medical assistance to those in the camps, and so the plan to deport was not successful and many died in the camps of starvation and disease. 


Rubbish. My grandfather's first wife (not Jewish, either) was gassed at Auschwitz. My grandfather was pretty high up in the security guarding an ammunition factory using forced labour (mostly Slav) in north Germany (Pulverfabrik Liebenau to be precise) during the war. He knew what was going on. He said as much to my mother. People, certainly above a certain level, knew what was happening. A lot have said that they didn't but it's rubbish. Some people, such as my grandfather, were honest enough to admit that they knew but that they could do nothing about it. Any argument that there were no gas chambers is simply unsustainable. Hitler did intend to commit genocide (and not just against the Jews either). I honestly can't believe it when people fall for this rubbish, and as someone of German stock with a grandfather who guarded Slav prisoners forced to make ammunition and a great uncle in the Waffen SS you'd think I'd have more reason than many for wanting it covered up (except that I know my grandfather did whatever he could to help the poor people he found himself guarding), but I know that what you wrote was nonsense from the testimony of my own family.

James
It's amazing people try to distance Hitler from this

Hitler was a coward who wouldn't give his name to the Final Solution, but he knew what was going on
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« Reply #51 on: April 08, 2013, 08:51:05 AM »


What evidence do you have that Hitler intended to kill millions of Jews?  If you understand what led to the pogroms in Russia (which were not supported or sponsored by the State), the role of Jews in the Bolshevik Revolution, and the role of Jews in Germany at the time, it is not difficult to understand why Hitler would want them out of Germany.  From what I have seen, contrary to a great deal of misinformation that has been adopted as the supposedly "official story", Hitler did not seek to exterminate but rather to deport the Jews.  The camps were not set up as extermination camps but rather as work camps.  There is no evidence of human gas chambers, though gas was used in special closets to kill lice which was a problem in the camps.  When the US and the Allies destroyed the transportation infrastructure, they could not get adequate food and medical assistance to those in the camps, and so the plan to deport was not successful and many died in the camps of starvation and disease. 


Rubbish. My grandfather's first wife (not Jewish, either) was gassed at Auschwitz. My grandfather was pretty high up in the security guarding an ammunition factory using forced labour (mostly Slav) in north Germany (Pulverfabrik Liebenau to be precise) during the war. He knew what was going on. He said as much to my mother. People, certainly above a certain level, knew what was happening. A lot have said that they didn't but it's rubbish. Some people, such as my grandfather, were honest enough to admit that they knew but that they could do nothing about it. Any argument that there were no gas chambers is simply unsustainable. Hitler did intend to commit genocide (and not just against the Jews either). I honestly can't believe it when people fall for this rubbish, and as someone of German stock with a grandfather who guarded Slav prisoners forced to make ammunition and a great uncle in the Waffen SS you'd think I'd have more reason than many for wanting it covered up (except that I know my grandfather did whatever he could to help the poor people he found himself guarding), but I know that what you wrote was nonsense from the testimony of my own family.

James
It's amazing people try to distance Hitler from this

Hitler was a coward who wouldn't give his name to the Final Solution, but he knew what was going on

Indeed. If my grandfather knew enough about what was going on to allow him to immediately understand that his wife had been gassed based on nothing more than the address and the spurious cause of 'pneumonia' on the death notice (as both she and he were non-Jewish German citizens he was actually notified of her death), how anyone can argue that the architect of it all either didn't know or didn't mean to is utterly beyond me.

James
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« Reply #52 on: April 08, 2013, 09:19:39 AM »

What caused Hitler's hate towards the Jews than he wondered around to kill 5+ millions of them ?

What evidence do you have that Hitler intended to kill millions of Jews? 

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« Reply #53 on: April 08, 2013, 07:53:04 PM »

The issue with the intent of the Nazis or Hitler is that the Death Camps were started after most of the other programs were in place and many other options as to what ultimately should be done with the Jews were discussed.

Such as relocating them to the island of Madagascar.

If Killing them all had been the original intent , then these other options would not have been seriously discussed.
And the death camps would have been operating long before 1942 if that was the intention from the start.

It has been said that they really did not care about racism and killing as much as they were in the markets and wealth accumulation.
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« Reply #54 on: April 08, 2013, 08:01:15 PM »

The issue with the intent of the Nazis or Hitler is that the Death Camps were started after most of the other programs were in place and many other options as to what ultimately should be done with the Jews were discussed.

Such as relocating them to the island of Madagascar.

If Killing them all had been the original intent , then these other options would not have been seriously discussed.
And the death camps would have been operating long before 1942 if that was the intention from the start.

It has been said that they really did not care about racism and killing as much as they were in the markets and wealth accumulation.

Make no mistake, there were those that wanted them dead, and exterminated from the Earth.  Not all of them (Rudolf Hess for one), but enough of them that it was eventually going to happen.  There were Jews being rounded up and killed long before 1942.  They had just not made an industry of it before then.
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« Reply #55 on: April 08, 2013, 08:19:24 PM »

Yes that is true that they had already killed many Jews before the death camps started., but other Countries had done that to many different races throughout history .

Also I have read where out of 8000 lawyers in Vienna in 1936,  7000 were jews. Which as I said before, is that many sympathized with the Nazis as far as they felt they would benefit monetarily from it. They were not out to kill as much as profit and teach them a lesson.

As far as their racism, None had ever said it outright in quite the same way , but there have been many who felt they were the master Race  long before the Nazis said it.

And there were many in other countries who secretly wished the Nazis would succeed. I was personally told that by racist ww2 veterans in the Chicago area..
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« Reply #56 on: April 08, 2013, 09:45:29 PM »

Yes that is true that they had already killed many Jews before the death camps started., but other Countries had done that to many different races throughout history .

Also I have read where out of 8000 lawyers in Vienna in 1936,  7000 were jews. Which as I said before, is that many sympathized with the Nazis as far as they felt they would benefit monetarily from it. They were not out to kill as much as profit and teach them a lesson.

As far as their racism, None had ever said it outright in quite the same way , but there have been many who felt they were the master Race  long before the Nazis said it.

And there were many in other countries who secretly wished the Nazis would succeed. I was personally told that by racist ww2 veterans in the Chicago area..

There is an old story that the only rail lines that we never bombed were the ones to Auschwitz.  And we knew what was going on there LONG before the war ended.  I don't know if it is true, but it would be interesting to look in to.
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« Reply #57 on: April 08, 2013, 09:57:44 PM »

He was a psychopath.
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« Reply #58 on: April 08, 2013, 10:20:16 PM »

What caused Hitler's hate towards the Jews than he wondered around to kill 5+ millions of them ?

Political opportunity supplemented by perverse norse pagan occultism. 

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« Reply #59 on: April 08, 2013, 10:20:56 PM »

Yes that is true that they had already killed many Jews before the death camps started., but other Countries had done that to many different races throughout history .

Also I have read where out of 8000 lawyers in Vienna in 1936,  7000 were jews. Which as I said before, is that many sympathized with the Nazis as far as they felt they would benefit monetarily from it. They were not out to kill as much as profit and teach them a lesson.

As far as their racism, None had ever said it outright in quite the same way , but there have been many who felt they were the master Race  long before the Nazis said it.

And there were many in other countries who secretly wished the Nazis would succeed. I was personally told that by racist ww2 veterans in the Chicago area..

There is an old story that the only rail lines that we never bombed were the ones to Auschwitz.  And we knew what was going on there LONG before the war ended.  I don't know if it is true, but it would be interesting to look in to.

One aspect that was really silenced was the testimony of Rudolf Vrba, who lectured at one of our WWII history classes.  A very small book was written and promptly denounced by the political Zionists.  He does have a very brief appearance in the documentary Shoah.

Vrba was one of two men who escaped Auschwiz-Berkinau.  He worked in the intake room of the camp where arrivals were registered.  He kept count in his head of the numbers of people passing through.  When he escaped he went to everyone he could to tell them what was going on in the camp.  He also went to Hungary, where the last group of Jews was to be shipped out.  The Zionists that eventually settled in Israel had brokered a deal with the Germans called "blood for trucks".  They basically sold out their own people to save their skins, and certain Jews were shipped from Hungary, despite Vrba telling them what the fate of those people would be.  

That would be a starter for study.  Vrba told a lot of important people what was going on to no avail.   He came under fire from many quarters for telling his experience.  He moved to Canada, and has passed on.  
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« Reply #60 on: April 09, 2013, 12:51:55 AM »

Didn't the Ruskies kill more Jews in the gulags than Adolf Hitler did? And having some German in my background, I feel somewhat appalled that Germans are always demonized whenever World War II is brought up. Why doesn't anyone mention all of the war crimes that Japan committed against civilians, or that of the USSR when they invaded Germany? Or that the Allies had Germany shoved in a corner on a leash, impoverished, scapegoated and forced to pay all their expenses after the Great War? I don't find it too bad that they finally snapped and stood up for themselves. Sure the racism and holocaust was bad, but most Germans on the field had no idea about it. That's why Hitler had to create a special division precisely in charge of carrying out his holocaust. If Adolf Hitler didn't start the holocaust and formulate a racial supremacist philosophy, he'd be remembered as a national hero martyr in Germany to this day...
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« Reply #61 on: April 09, 2013, 03:42:07 AM »

Didn't the Ruskies kill more Jews in the gulags than Adolf Hitler did? And having some German in my background, I feel somewhat appalled that Germans are always demonized whenever World War II is brought up. Why doesn't anyone mention all of the war crimes that Japan committed against civilians, or that of the USSR when they invaded Germany? Or that the Allies had Germany shoved in a corner on a leash, impoverished, scapegoated and forced to pay all their expenses after the Great War? I don't find it too bad that they finally snapped and stood up for themselves. Sure the racism and holocaust was bad, but most Germans on the field had no idea about it. That's why Hitler had to create a special division precisely in charge of carrying out his holocaust. If Adolf Hitler didn't start the holocaust and formulate a racial supremacist philosophy, he'd be remembered as a national hero martyr in Germany to this day...

Personally I'd rather that people countered the demonising of Germans in WWII by pointing to the good things people did in opposition to the Nazis, whether that be the famous examples such as Schindler or Die Weisse Rose (one of whom is an Orthodox saint I'd note) or the little people who aren't so well known but saved, or tried to, individuals here and there. It seems to me that seeking to excuse one nation by pointing out the sins of others is hardly helpful.

My greatest pride is that my grandfather, who was a member of the party though he had no choice due to his job, saved one family from the slave labour in Liebenau and was so well liked and respected by the inmates there that a Russian prisoner of war made a ladle for him from scrap as a thank you. I grew up being served soup with that ladle and it is genuinely the only thing I care about inheriting. The fact that there were good Germans who did what they could in the face of such horrors is a point that should not be forgotten.

James
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« Reply #62 on: April 09, 2013, 04:48:19 AM »

Didn't the Ruskies kill more Jews in the gulags than Adolf Hitler did? And having some German in my background, I feel somewhat appalled that Germans are always demonized whenever World War II is brought up. Why doesn't anyone mention all of the war crimes that Japan committed against civilians, or that of the USSR when they invaded Germany? Or that the Allies had Germany shoved in a corner on a leash, impoverished, scapegoated and forced to pay all their expenses after the Great War? I don't find it too bad that they finally snapped and stood up for themselves. Sure the racism and holocaust was bad, but most Germans on the field had no idea about it. That's why Hitler had to create a special division precisely in charge of carrying out his holocaust. If Adolf Hitler didn't start the holocaust and formulate a racial supremacist philosophy, he'd be remembered as a national hero martyr in Germany to this day...

Failing to notice own's nation faults is not an example of patriotism. Quite the contrary.
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« Reply #63 on: April 09, 2013, 06:48:18 AM »

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So how these nations were different since they all practices the same religion, had the same culture. spoke the same language, and had the same religious beliefs?

The ancient Greek nation-states were most certainly separated through cultural, philosphical and civic values and norms. the most prime example of course were Athens and Sparta, yes they had for the most part the same language, myths and for the most part ethnicity but were worlds apart philosophically with the Spartans being the pure authoritarian, militant state with the warrior for the state being the apex of achievement in this life while the Athenians placing a high regard on intellect, philosophy and democracy.

The nation-states were indeed separate and distinct but would ally occasionally with the outside threat to Hellenism as in the case of the Persians.

Quote
In the early XXth century? Many. Herzl and his supporters for example.

Returning to the "promised land" (Not Madagascar or anywhere else) has always been the goal for the Jews and from what I understand from the most basic Judaism is that they were supposed to wait and be led by the true Messiah. Which they didn't of course.



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you should prove that the term "Judea" was used in the 1930' by public opinion to describe Jewish socio-national movement whose actions or decisions could be compared to the ones by an independent state. Only in this case your theories will be valid.
 

I don't have to prove nothing, the Jews have always considered themselves a separate people no matter what nation or state they were dwelling at the time, this is historical fact, the Jews themselves knowingly and openly admit to this, why do you think so many still have this "dual citizenship" with Israel no matter what country they live in? and believe me, if and when the crap hits the proverbial fan, they will most certainly choose their loyalties with Israel over any nation in which they dwell. Why even many in this country feel that this is their duty and is to be expected from them. That's how brainwashed many are over the issue of Israel, Zionism and the Jews.
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« Reply #64 on: April 09, 2013, 06:55:28 AM »

The ancient Greek nation-states were most certainly separated through cultural, philosphical and civic values and norms. the most prime example of course were Athens and Sparta, yes they had for the most part the same language, myths and for the most part ethnicity but were worlds apart philosophically with the Spartans being the pure authoritarian, militant state with the warrior for the state being the apex of achievement in this life while the Athenians placing a high regard on intellect, philosophy and democracy.

Are Southerners and Yankees separate nationalities?

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The nation-states were indeed separate and distinct but would ally occasionally with the outside threat to Hellenism as in the case of the Persians.

What is this "Hellenism".

Quote
Returning to the "promised land" (Not Madagascar or anywhere else) has always been the goal for the Jews and from what I understand from the most basic Judaism is that they were supposed to wait and be led by the true Messiah. Which they didn't of course.

You ignored my argument, shut up your eyes and keep repeating what you have imagined.

Quote
I don't have to prove nothing, the Jews have always considered themselves a separate people no matter what nation or state they were dwelling at the time, this is historical fact, the Jews themselves knowingly and openly admit to this, why do you think so many still have this "dual citizenship" with Israel no matter what country they live in? and believe me, if and when the crap hits the proverbial fan, they will most certainly choose their loyalties with Israel over any nation in which they dwell. Why even many in this country feel that this is their duty and is to be expected from them. That's how brainwashed many are over the issue of Israel, Zionism and the Jews.

You fail (or pretend to fail my argument). You cited that article that alleged boycott Germany by that mysterious "Judea" is comparable to the actions of the German state. You should prove it now.
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« Reply #65 on: April 09, 2013, 07:01:40 AM »

Didn't the Ruskies kill more Jews in the gulags than Adolf Hitler did? And having some German in my background, I feel somewhat appalled that Germans are always demonized whenever World War II is brought up. Why doesn't anyone mention all of the war crimes that Japan committed against civilians, or that of the USSR when they invaded Germany? Or that the Allies had Germany shoved in a corner on a leash, impoverished, scapegoated and forced to pay all their expenses after the Great War? I don't find it too bad that they finally snapped and stood up for themselves. Sure the racism and holocaust was bad, but most Germans on the field had no idea about it. That's why Hitler had to create a special division precisely in charge of carrying out his holocaust. If Adolf Hitler didn't start the holocaust and formulate a racial supremacist philosophy, he'd be remembered as a national hero martyr in Germany to this day...
Stalin was a true monster and killed millions of his own people, far more than Hitler and NS Germany ever imagined.

Then he turned on the Jews who supported him in his genocidal policies.

We almost never hear about Communist atrocities which were far more devastating and over reaching for not only Europe but the entire globe and the Church herself. But Communism is a Jewish construct, therefore it's treated with kid gloves.


Hitler and the Germans will always be the monster and the state of Germany will pay for her "sins" through eternity and the Jewish/Zionist media and academia wil remind us of this fact over and over and over and over until of course their will be fierce backlash and the Jews will suffer more persectuion and the cycle begins all over again.

One day the real Messiah will return and put an end to all of this for good. But until that happens, expect more of the same.
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« Reply #66 on: April 09, 2013, 07:22:51 AM »

Quote
Are Southerners and Yankees separate nationalities?

What, pray tell, does this have to do with ethnic Jews and Germans?

Quote
What is this "Hellenism".

My Lord, you're Orthodox and never heard of it? What, did you go to public school in America or something?

Anyway, it's just a Google search  click away.

Quote
You ignored my argument, shut up your eyes and keep repeating what you have imagined.

I think I answered you pretty direct. I don't what else to say that would convince you that the Jews have always intended to return to Israel, not Madagascar, you seem to be the one that has eyes but does not see. I feel like I'm arguing with Josef Goebbels here.

Quote
You fail (or pretend to fail my argument). You cited that article that alleged boycott Germany by that mysterious "Judea" is comparable to the actions of the German state. You should prove it now.
If you don't get the fact that Jews move as a collective especially in defense of Jews and Judaism I don't know what else to tell you, it's so blatantly obvious and they do not deny this. You just keep living in a fantasy world if you want, for some people, reality is an option I guess.
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« Reply #67 on: April 09, 2013, 07:29:49 AM »

Then he turned on the Jews who supported him in his genocidal policies.

We almost never hear about Communist atrocities which were far more devastating and over reaching for not only Europe but the entire globe and the Church herself. But Communism is a Jewish construct, therefore it's treated with kid gloves.


Hitler and the Germans will always be the monster and the state of Germany will pay for her "sins" through eternity and the Jewish/Zionist media and academia wil remind us of this fact over and over and over and over until of course their will be fierce backlash and the Jews will suffer more persectuion and the cycle begins all over again.

One day the real Messiah will return and put an end to all of this for good. But until that happens, expect more of the same.

You may never hear about Communist atrocities. I hear about them all the time. Of course, half my own family growing up were behind the iron curtain and all my wife's were (and right on the new border in Bucovina where the Fântâna Albă massacre remains very much in people's minds) and I'm a member of a very ethnic parish where almost everyone over the age of about 35 (and even some younger) can remember at least something about what it was like to grow up under communism. We don't treat Communism with kid gloves at all - quite the reverse - but the crimes of Communism neither mitigate nor excuse the crimes of National Socialism.

James
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« Reply #68 on: April 09, 2013, 07:38:07 AM »

Didn't the Ruskies kill more Jews in the gulags than Adolf Hitler did? And having some German in my background, I feel somewhat appalled that Germans are always demonized whenever World War II is brought up. Why doesn't anyone mention all of the war crimes that Japan committed against civilians, or that of the USSR when they invaded Germany? Or that the Allies had Germany shoved in a corner on a leash, impoverished, scapegoated and forced to pay all their expenses after the Great War? I don't find it too bad that they finally snapped and stood up for themselves. Sure the racism and holocaust was bad, but most Germans on the field had no idea about it. That's why Hitler had to create a special division precisely in charge of carrying out his holocaust. If Adolf Hitler didn't start the holocaust and formulate a racial supremacist philosophy, he'd be remembered as a national hero martyr in Germany to this day...

Forgive me, but that's a very silly attitude. Germany began WWII with a plan to conquer the world - Hitler stated he wanted 'breathing space' for the master race; the German people.

People mention war crimes against civilians all the time (except in Japan).

Germany didn't just 'stand up for itself'. It didn't just seek redress for the Treaty of Versailles WHICH IT AGREED TO!

Even without the Holocaust Hitler was still evil. He rounded up and executed opposition groups, destroyed freedoms, etc. even before the systematic (factory-like) murder system of the Holocaust. And he was a war monger.

He supported the fascists in Spain's civil war. He allied himself with Italy after Italy had used poison gas against civilians in Ethiopia.

No address for past wrongs could justify his annexation of Czechoslovakia

I would strongly recommend that you read on the topic before commenting.





I have German roots as well
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« Reply #69 on: April 09, 2013, 07:42:12 AM »

What, pray tell, does this have to do with ethnic Jews and Germans?

It has something to do with different "nationalities" in ancien Greek states.
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« Reply #70 on: April 09, 2013, 07:45:44 AM »

Didn't the Ruskies kill more Jews in the gulags than Adolf Hitler did? And having some German in my background, I feel somewhat appalled that Germans are always demonized whenever World War II is brought up. Why doesn't anyone mention all of the war crimes that Japan committed against civilians, or that of the USSR when they invaded Germany? Or that the Allies had Germany shoved in a corner on a leash, impoverished, scapegoated and forced to pay all their expenses after the Great War? I don't find it too bad that they finally snapped and stood up for themselves. Sure the racism and holocaust was bad, but most Germans on the field had no idea about it. That's why Hitler had to create a special division precisely in charge of carrying out his holocaust. If Adolf Hitler didn't start the holocaust and formulate a racial supremacist philosophy, he'd be remembered as a national hero martyr in Germany to this day...
Stalin was a true monster and killed millions of his own people, far more than Hitler and NS Germany ever imagined.

Then he turned on the Jews who supported him in his genocidal policies.

We almost never hear about Communist atrocities which were far more devastating and over reaching for not only Europe but the entire globe and the Church herself. But Communism is a Jewish construct, therefore it's treated with kid gloves.


Hitler and the Germans will always be the monster and the state of Germany will pay for her "sins" through eternity and the Jewish/Zionist media and academia wil remind us of this fact over and over and over and over until of course their will be fierce backlash and the Jews will suffer more persectuion and the cycle begins all over again.

One day the real Messiah will return and put an end to all of this for good. But until that happens, expect more of the same.

Communism is not a Jewish construct.

Unless you count Jewishness as 'racial'... because Karl Marx was not a practicing Jew, and there's no links between Judaism and Communism.

In fact there's links between Christianity and Communism.

In the 1600's in England there were primitive communistic communities that got their collective ideas from Christianity; such groups as the Levelers, and the Diggers.

The levelers believed in equality - everyone on the same level. They had a small poem carried over from the Peasant's revolt
"When Adam delved and Eve span, who was then the gentleman?"*

The Diggers farmed land collectively.

In Acts of the Apostles the community gave all their money to the Apostles and this was then doled out as needed which is repeated in and as a Marxist phrase: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need


*
When Adam delved and Eve span,[a] Who was then the gentleman?[3] From the beginning all men by nature were created alike, and our bondage or servitude came in by the unjust oppression of naughty men. For if God would have had any bondmen from the beginning, he would have appointed who should be bond, and who free. And therefore I exhort you to consider that now the time is come, appointed to us by God, in which ye may (if ye will) cast off the yoke of bondage, and recover liberty
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There's enough anti-Semitic propaganda out there already without it creeping into this forum!
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« Reply #71 on: April 09, 2013, 01:22:10 PM »

I'm sometimes shocked and appalled at how anti-semitism still runs rampant in the Orthodox Church (and Roman Catholic Church, and just Europe in general) under the guise of "anti-Israel." One can be against Israel's policies without being against the Jews, downgrading the Holocaust, or demonizing an entire people group.

For one, Communism is and always will be a Christian heresy. It is not a Jewish construct by any stretch. Though Karl Marx was ethnically Jewish, he was an atheist as well as a strict materialist. He took the Christian social Gospel and removed God from the equation and instead instituted the collective, which is why it is a Christian heresy. The reason Communism is treated with these so-called "kid gloves" isn't because it's a "Jewish construct," but because most academics actually believe it's a good idea. I've had friends go so far as to say that a violent revolution is needed, along with the killing of political dissinters. That has nothing to do with Communism being Jewish, but everything to do with it being materialistic. Even neo-Marxism and post-Marxism have become softer on religious views, seeing religion not necessarily as an opiate, but something that can be used to transform the world into a collective.

As for Germans not knowing what was going on, the reality is they did. The Americans knew they were committing genocide against the Native Americans, but justified it under "Manifest Destiny." The Spaniards knew they were enslaving the Native populations in the New World, but justified it as prosperity. The English knew they were killing and murdering Africans, but they justified it as necessary. The Turks knew they were murdering Armenians, but the people justified it as in the nation's best interests. Likewise, the Germans knew that Jews were being used as slaves and even being killed, but they justified it as a cleansing. With some 42,500 Nazi camps throughout Europe, all meant for undesirables, there's no way the average German could plead ignorance to what the Nazis were doing.

Third, having German blood does not justify a defense of Germany. You have German blood, so what? Your genetic ancestry is quite irrelevant to the truth of the matter. If we all traced our genetic ancestry we would find that we descend from murderers, rapists, and genocidal maniacs. That is simply how the human race works. Our job isn't to defend our history and put a rose on it, but to correct the past mistakes and create a better future.

We live in a fallen world. Buying into nationalism or racism doesn't fix our problems. Trying to justify an evil act - such as the Holocaust - doesn't make things better. Yes, more focus is placed on Jews lost in the Holocaust, but that is because they made up nearly 50% of the victims. Regardless, all lives lost in this tragic event should not be downplayed or seen as a cause of their own demise. That is not the Christian approach to this matter. Rather, the Christian approach is to realize that we are all fallen away from God, that we are all murderers in our own way, and that we should seek to correct this error through Grace. Anything short will result in failure.
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« Reply #72 on: April 09, 2013, 02:38:46 PM »

Forgive me, but that's a very silly attitude. Germany began WWII with a plan to conquer the world - Hitler stated he wanted 'breathing space' for the master race; the German people.

You mean like the British Empire which wanted to conquer the entire world?

Quote
Germany didn't just 'stand up for itself'. It didn't just seek redress for the Treaty of Versailles WHICH IT AGREED TO!

But why is Germany so demonized for its imperialism even though Europe as a whole was imperialistic at the time? The British Empire and USSR were the most imperialistic, violent European powers there were at the time. But their atrocities get overlooked. But when Germany rises out of a dark corner and starts to kick their butts, everyone demonized Germany.

Quote
Even without the Holocaust Hitler was still evil. He rounded up and executed opposition groups, destroyed freedoms, etc....

You mean like the British Empire and the USSR?

Quote
And he was a war monger.

You mean like the British Empire?

Quote
He allied himself with Italy after Italy had used poison gas against civilians in Ethiopia.

Any different than the British Empire cutting off Indian peoples' thumbs and shooting them for protesting?
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You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
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« Reply #73 on: April 09, 2013, 06:57:05 PM »

Quote
Communism is not a Jewish construct.

Sure it is, they even admit it themselves.


 From the Jewish Encyclopedia: ""Jews have been prominently identified with the modern Socialist movement from its very inception." "Scientific socialism," or what we call communism, says the Universal Jewish Encyclopedia in its article on socialism, "originated in the combination of Jewish Messianic feeling with German philosophy" 1 Marx, of course, was Jewish. But, just as important, Jews at all levels, from high financiers like the Warburgs, Schiffs and Rothschilds to rugged revolutionaries like Trotsky, Kamenev, Sverdlov and Zinoviev, made the success of communism possible.

Bolshevism would eventually become the Jewish cause.

Quote
Unless you count Jewishness as 'racial'... because Karl Marx was not a practicing Jew, and there's no links between Judaism and Communism.

That's about the most nonsensical statement I ever heard concerning Jews or Communism. Many Jews in the early 20th century wer enthralled in Communism, this is well documented. And if the Jew Marx was not a "practicing" (just what the heck is that?) Jew, in other words, a spiritual one I suppose, then just what would the label 'jew" be concerning him if it wasn't ethnic or "racial" as you put it?


Quote
In fact there's links between Christianity and Communism.

I don't doubt that for a second. It is well known that the Reds have infiltrated the Church, but the Church is not in essence, communist. It is not necessarily a "communist" construct but the AntiChrist Bolshevists would appear to make it so.


Quote
There's enough anti-Semitic propaganda out there already without it creeping into this forum!

Oh Lord, here we go with the emotional outbursts and slanderous accusations of the big "A' to anyone who might be getting at the truth a little bit, especially when it concerns the master, er I mean Chosen race. I think you need to define just what "antisemitism" really is, because, I don't believe I fit the profile, whatever that is.

Besides, I could never really be a true "antisemite", some of my best friends are Arabs. Grin
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« Reply #74 on: April 09, 2013, 07:04:50 PM »

Forgive me, but that's a very silly attitude. Germany began WWII with a plan to conquer the world - Hitler stated he wanted 'breathing space' for the master race; the German people.

You mean like the British Empire which wanted to conquer the entire world?

Quote
Germany didn't just 'stand up for itself'. It didn't just seek redress for the Treaty of Versailles WHICH IT AGREED TO!

But why is Germany so demonized for its imperialism even though Europe as a whole was imperialistic at the time? The British Empire and USSR were the most imperialistic, violent European powers there were at the time. But their atrocities get overlooked. But when Germany rises out of a dark corner and starts to kick their butts, everyone demonized Germany.

Quote
Even without the Holocaust Hitler was still evil. He rounded up and executed opposition groups, destroyed freedoms, etc....

You mean like the British Empire and the USSR?

Quote
And he was a war monger.

You mean like the British Empire?

Quote
He allied himself with Italy after Italy had used poison gas against civilians in Ethiopia.

Any different than the British Empire cutting off Indian peoples' thumbs and shooting them for protesting?
Good points James, but you'll have a hard time convincing the Anglophiles that the British Crown was anything less than a divine instituion, they truly believe it was God's Will for the British empire to dominate almost a quater of the world's surface.

The sun truly never set on the British Empire at one time.

But those nasty ol evil Germans tried to take over the world with that little strip of land alongside the Polish corridor. Roll Eyes
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« Reply #75 on: April 09, 2013, 07:23:09 PM »

Quote
Forgive me, but that's a very silly attitude. Germany began WWII with a plan to conquer the world

WWII began when Britain and France attacked Germany for invading Poland while they conveniently left communist Soviet Russia alone who was simultaneously invading the Polish from the East. Get your facts straight.

Quote
Hitler stated he wanted 'breathing space' for the master race; the German people.

He said he wanted Lebensraum, "living space", but what he was really tallking about was reclaiming German territory that was stolen from them unfairly after WWI by the allies, basically German land. I don't think he ever used the term "master race" either.

Quote
Germany didn't just 'stand up for itself'. It didn't just seek redress for the Treaty of Versailles WHICH IT AGREED TO!

At the point of a gun. Hitler and the NS's also believed that the German nation never really surrendered at the end of the war and did not ever start it to begin with, they believe they were sold out by traitorus leaders in league with the allies for financial gain.


Quote
He supported the fascists in Spain's civil war.

Against the meddling Bolshevists and the commies lost, thank God.

Quote
I would strongly recommend that you read on the topic before commenting.

You should take some of your own advice.
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« Reply #76 on: April 09, 2013, 07:40:13 PM »

He said he wanted Lebensraum, "living space", but what he was really tallking about was reclaiming German territory that was stolen from them unfairly after WWI by the allies, basically German land.

I didn't know Voronezh, Rostov or Belgorod had been German anywhere prior to WW II.
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« Reply #77 on: April 09, 2013, 07:42:18 PM »

Didn't the Ruskies kill more Jews in the gulags than Adolf Hitler did? And having some German in my background, I feel somewhat appalled that Germans are always demonized whenever World War II is brought up. Why doesn't anyone mention all of the war crimes that Japan committed against civilians, or that of the USSR when they invaded Germany? Or that the Allies had Germany shoved in a corner on a leash, impoverished, scapegoated and forced to pay all their expenses after the Great War? I don't find it too bad that they finally snapped and stood up for themselves. Sure the racism and holocaust was bad, but most Germans on the field had no idea about it. That's why Hitler had to create a special division precisely in charge of carrying out his holocaust. If Adolf Hitler didn't start the holocaust and formulate a racial supremacist philosophy, he'd be remembered as a national hero martyr in Germany to this day...

It is better to get the log out of our own eye , only then we can help our brother with the sliver in his.

As americans that would mean talking about the Blacks , Native americans, and also for WW2 the First nuclear obliteration of humanity, where 100s of thousands died in minutes.

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« Reply #78 on: April 09, 2013, 07:51:44 PM »

There was a country called Judea in the early 1930s?
Jews have always considered themselves a "nation" regardless of what country they're dwelling in  at that time, especially before the state of Israel.

And how is this related to biro's question?

He's trying to say that the Jews are equally responsible for the hatred because apparently protesting injustice makes you as bad as the oppressor or some other weirdo White Man's Burden theory.
I just said there's plenty of room  of blame to go around on both sides.

You're the one hung up on race buddy.

There is not enough blame on both sides to justify the Holocaust. There is no good reason to justify the great leftist monsters of the 20th Century, folks like Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, etc...
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« Reply #79 on: April 09, 2013, 07:54:50 PM »

He said he wanted Lebensraum, "living space", but what he was really tallking about was reclaiming German territory that was stolen from them unfairly after WWI by the allies, basically German land.

I didn't know Voronezh, Rostov or Belgorod had been German anywhere prior to WW II.
The inevitable showdown with the Soviets was going to happen anyway.

Germany figured they'd take them out quick while they could.

They miscalculated big time. It cost them the war.
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« Reply #80 on: April 09, 2013, 08:00:39 PM »

There was a country called Judea in the early 1930s?
Jews have always considered themselves a "nation" regardless of what country they're dwelling in  at that time, especially before the state of Israel.

And how is this related to biro's question?

He's trying to say that the Jews are equally responsible for the hatred because apparently protesting injustice makes you as bad as the oppressor or some other weirdo White Man's Burden theory.
I just said there's plenty of room  of blame to go around on both sides.

You're the one hung up on race buddy.

There is not enough blame on both sides to justify the Holocaust. There is no good reason to justify the great leftist monsters of the 20th Century, folks like Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, etc...
I agree, but these "monsters" gained momentum for a reason.

Let me ask you a question, do  you think God allowed the holocaust just to happen?

I've heard that the Jews actually find God complicit in allowing it.

The Jews have actually "judged" God.


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« Reply #81 on: April 09, 2013, 08:07:23 PM »

Quote
So how these nations were different since they all practices the same religion, had the same culture. spoke the same language, and had the same religious beliefs?

The ancient Greek nation-states were most certainly separated through cultural, philosphical and civic values and norms. the most prime example of course were Athens and Sparta, yes they had for the most part the same language, myths and for the most part ethnicity but were worlds apart philosophically with the Spartans being the pure authoritarian, militant state with the warrior for the state being the apex of achievement in this life while the Athenians placing a high regard on intellect, philosophy and democracy.

The nation-states were indeed separate and distinct but would ally occasionally with the outside threat to Hellenism as in the case of the Persians.

Quote
In the early XXth century? Many. Herzl and his supporters for example.

Returning to the "promised land" (Not Madagascar or anywhere else) has always been the goal for the Jews and from what I understand from the most basic Judaism is that they were supposed to wait and be led by the true Messiah. Which they didn't of course.



Quote
you should prove that the term "Judea" was used in the 1930' by public opinion to describe Jewish socio-national movement whose actions or decisions could be compared to the ones by an independent state. Only in this case your theories will be valid.
 

I don't have to prove nothing, the Jews have always considered themselves a separate people no matter what nation or state they were dwelling at the time, this is historical fact, the Jews themselves knowingly and openly admit to this, why do you think so many still have this "dual citizenship" with Israel no matter what country they live in? and believe me, if and when the crap hits the proverbial fan, they will most certainly choose their loyalties with Israel over any nation in which they dwell. Why even many in this country feel that this is their duty and is to be expected from them. That's how brainwashed many are over the issue of Israel, Zionism and the Jews.

Just a small little correction here, the Greeks hate city-states, not nation-states
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« Reply #82 on: April 09, 2013, 08:24:08 PM »

There was a country called Judea in the early 1930s?
Jews have always considered themselves a "nation" regardless of what country they're dwelling in  at that time, especially before the state of Israel.



And how is this related to biro's question?

He's trying to say that the Jews are equally responsible for the hatred because apparently protesting injustice makes you as bad as the oppressor or some other weirdo White Man's Burden theory.
I just said there's plenty of room  of blame to go around on both sides.

You're the one hung up on race buddy.

There is not enough blame on both sides to justify the Holocaust. There is no good reason to justify the great leftist monsters of the 20th Century, folks like Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, etc...
I agree, but these "monsters" gained momentum for a reason.

Let me ask you a question, do  you think God allowed the holocaust just to happen?

I've heard that the Jews actually find God complicit in allowing it.

The Jews have actually "judged" God.





Satan is the one wants these things to happen, to show how racist the whole world is. Which he is correct about the world being racist.

Our salvation only comes through God when we admit our sins and ask forgiveness, and look to him to take care of Satan .

 We must then be like Job and not lose faith and do not let Satan take what little we have away lest we fall into his pit
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« Reply #83 on: April 09, 2013, 09:53:13 PM »

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Communism is not a Jewish construct.

Sure it is, they even admit it themselves.


 From the Jewish Encyclopedia: ""Jews have been prominently identified with the modern Socialist movement from its very inception." "Scientific socialism," or what we call communism, says the Universal Jewish Encyclopedia in its article on socialism, "originated in the combination of Jewish Messianic feeling with German philosophy" 1 Marx, of course, was Jewish. But, just as important, Jews at all levels, from high financiers like the Warburgs, Schiffs and Rothschilds to rugged revolutionaries like Trotsky, Kamenev, Sverdlov and Zinoviev, made the success of communism possible.

Bolshevism would eventually become the Jewish cause.

Quote
Unless you count Jewishness as 'racial'... because Karl Marx was not a practicing Jew, and there's no links between Judaism and Communism.

That's about the most nonsensical statement I ever heard concerning Jews or Communism. Many Jews in the early 20th century wer enthralled in Communism, this is well documented. And if the Jew Marx was not a "practicing" (just what the heck is that?) Jew, in other words, a spiritual one I suppose, then just what would the label 'jew" be concerning him if it wasn't ethnic or "racial" as you put it?


Quote
In fact there's links between Christianity and Communism.

I don't doubt that for a second. It is well known that the Reds have infiltrated the Church, but the Church is not in essence, communist. It is not necessarily a "communist" construct but the AntiChrist Bolshevists would appear to make it so.


Quote
There's enough anti-Semitic propaganda out there already without it creeping into this forum!

Oh Lord, here we go with the emotional outbursts and slanderous accusations of the big "A' to anyone who might be getting at the truth a little bit, especially when it concerns the master, er I mean Chosen race. I think you need to define just what "antisemitism" really is, because, I don't believe I fit the profile, whatever that is.

Besides, I could never really be a true "antisemite", some of my best friends are Arabs. Grin

The idea that ‘reds’ had infiltrated the church is mind-boggling as I mentioned examples from the 1600s, and the time of the Apostles.

I’ve no idea about the source of the Jewish encyclopaedia, however given your association with red infiltration as part of a conspiracy I would doubt the veracity of this book.
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« Reply #84 on: April 09, 2013, 11:13:16 PM »


You mean like the British Empire which wanted to conquer the entire world?
Tu quoque is a logical fallacy


But why is Germany so demonized for its imperialism even though Europe as a whole was imperialistic at the time? The British Empire and USSR were the most imperialistic, violent European powers there were at the time. But their atrocities get overlooked. But when Germany rises out of a dark corner and starts to kick their butts, everyone demonized Germany.
Because Britain didn't start WWI?


You mean like the British Empire and the USSR?
See above re: logical fallacies

You mean like the British Empire?
Ditto


Any different than the British Empire cutting off Indian peoples' thumbs and shooting them for protesting?

There's your problem there is comparing things that are somewhat similar and thinking they are the same.

Let's give a hypothetical.

I shoot at you and you shoot at me.

They are similar.

But lets look at motives. If you are shooting at me BECAUSE I just randomly chose you as a target then we are not doing the same thing.

Britain bombed Germany in WWII and Germany bombed Britain in WWII.

Germany started the war. Britain was fighting against Germany's aggression.

Britain had an empire. Motive was most often economical, and certainly they wished to spread Christainity. Also, certainly they often failed not to be cruel.

Germany wanted an empire to enslave and work to death slavs, and to exterminate Jews.

It of itself was cruel.

You should, as I note, read up on this because at the most superficial level you're drawing comparisons.
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« Reply #85 on: April 09, 2013, 11:16:31 PM »

Good points James, but you'll have a hard time convincing the Anglophiles that the British Crown was anything less than a divine instituion, they truly believe it was God's Will for the British empire to dominate almost a quater of the world's surface.

The sun truly never set on the British Empire at one time.

But those nasty ol evil Germans tried to take over the world with that little strip of land alongside the Polish corridor. Roll Eyes

Except its as different as chalk and cheese.

Let's try this another way. The US is a democracy. It has a history of racism, oppression of indigenous peoples, wars, etc. By your 'logic' therefore democracy is just a bad a system as communism which exhibits the same traits!

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« Reply #86 on: April 09, 2013, 11:25:17 PM »

Forgive me, but that's a very silly attitude. Germany began WWII with a plan to conquer the world - Hitler stated he wanted 'breathing space' for the master race; the German people.

You mean like the British Empire which wanted to conquer the entire world?

Quote
Germany didn't just 'stand up for itself'. It didn't just seek redress for the Treaty of Versailles WHICH IT AGREED TO!

But why is Germany so demonized for its imperialism even though Europe as a whole was imperialistic at the time? The British Empire and USSR were the most imperialistic, violent European powers there were at the time. But their atrocities get overlooked. But when Germany rises out of a dark corner and starts to kick their butts, everyone demonized Germany.

Quote
Even without the Holocaust Hitler was still evil. He rounded up and executed opposition groups, destroyed freedoms, etc....

You mean like the British Empire and the USSR?

Quote
And he was a war monger.

You mean like the British Empire?

Quote
He allied himself with Italy after Italy had used poison gas against civilians in Ethiopia.

Any different than the British Empire cutting off Indian peoples' thumbs and shooting them for protesting?
Good points James, but you'll have a hard time convincing the Anglophiles that the British Crown was anything less than a divine instituion, they truly believe it was God's Will for the British empire to dominate almost a quater of the world's surface.

The sun truly never set on the British Empire at one time.

But those nasty ol evil Germans tried to take over the world with that little strip of land alongside the Polish corridor. Roll Eyes

And North Africa, and France, and the United Kingdom, and Greece, and the Balkans, and Russia, etc.

The British Empire was wrong in how it treated its subjects. But it attempted to act like an empire, it attempted to rule over its subjects. Though wrong, that is what empires do. They beat the subjected peoples into submission until they make good subjects, but then builds them back up as subjects of the crown and gives them the same rights. Again, none of that is right, but that is what an empire does. Furthermore, the torture of Indians and other subjects was done when they acted against the crown, not because of their race. Again, it doesn't justify what the British did, but it's a far cry different from the Nazis.

What Germany did, however, was take a materialistic view of the world, namely that some races are superior to others, and attempted to eradicate the inferior races. It didn't try to build an empire where there were subjects, rather it tried to impose the German way of life on everyone by allowing the "superior race" to propagate while exterminating the inferior races.

The people who bore the brunt of this were the Jews. Lest you forget, these are the blood relatives of the Theotokos, as well as Jesus Christ. While they may be wrong in their rejection of Christ, remember that Paul gives us strict instructions on how to handle them. Killing them and vilifying them is not in those instructions.
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« Reply #87 on: April 09, 2013, 11:32:01 PM »

Sure it is, they even admit it themselves.


 From the Jewish Encyclopedia: ""Jews have been prominently identified with the modern Socialist movement from its very inception." "Scientific socialism," or what we call communism, says the Universal Jewish Encyclopedia in its article on socialism, "originated in the combination of Jewish Messianic feeling with German philosophy" 1 Marx, of course, was Jewish. But, just as important, Jews at all levels, from high financiers like the Warburgs, Schiffs and Rothschilds to rugged revolutionaries like Trotsky, Kamenev, Sverdlov and Zinoviev, made the success of communism possible.

Bolshevism would eventually become the Jewish cause.

I thought I'd deal with this separately as it’s misinformation, or at best incomplete sourcing.

On the issue of socialism in the Jewish Encyclopaedia; the article (found here http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13822-socialism) only mentions part of your quote.

The quote you’re drawing from seems to be from an as yet un-sourced opinion OF the Jewish Encyclopaedia, not the encyclopaedia itself (unless these are drawn from a myriad of different pages).  

The use of this evidence is to confuse “Jews” (as a people) with “Jews” as a faith.

Marx can be identified with being a Jew, ethnically, but not with Judaism, as he was a secularist Jew. I noted that there’s no link between Judaism and socialism. The article I cite says his family was converted to Lutheranism.

Likewise you’ve confused socialism with communism.

There’s nothing in that source to show that the Rothschilds supported socialism. Thus the statement is a conclusion based on speculation.

Big business favoured Nazism.

“Hitler's 1924 Munich trial yielded evidence that the Nazi Party received $20,000 from Nuremburg industrialists. The most interesting name from this period is that of Emil Kirdorf, who had earlier acted as conduit for financing German involvement in the Bolshevik Revolution.4 Kirdorfs role in financing Hitler was, in his own words:
In 1923 I came into contact for the first time with the National-Socialist movement .... I first heard the Fuehrer in the Essen Exhibition Hall. His clear exposition completely convinced and overwhelmed me. In 1927 I first met the Fuehrer personally. I travelled to Munich and there had a conversation with the Fuehrer in the Bruckmann home. During four and a half hours Adolf Hitler explained to me his programme in de tail. I then begged the Fuehrer to put together the lecture he had given me in the form of a pamphlet. I then distributed this pamphlet in my name in business and manufacturing circles.
Since then I have placed myself completely at the disposition of his movement, Shortly after our Munich conversation, and as a result of the pamphlet which the Fuehrer composed and I distributed, a number of meetings took place between the Fuehrer and leading personalities in the field of indus. try. For the last time before the taking over of power, the leaders of industry met in my house together with Adolf Hitler, Rudolf Hess, Hermann Goering and other leading personalities of the party.5”
http://reformed-theology.org/html/books/wall_street/chapter_07.htm

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« Reply #88 on: April 09, 2013, 11:34:15 PM »


And North Africa, and France, and the United Kingdom, and Greece, and the Balkans, and Russia, etc.

The British Empire was wrong in how it treated its subjects. But it attempted to act like an empire, it attempted to rule over its subjects. Though wrong, that is what empires do. They beat the subjected peoples into submission until they make good subjects, but then builds them back up as subjects of the crown and gives them the same rights. Again, none of that is right, but that is what an empire does. Furthermore, the torture of Indians and other subjects was done when they acted against the crown, not because of their race. Again, it doesn't justify what the British did, but it's a far cry different from the Nazis.

What Germany did, however, was take a materialistic view of the world, namely that some races are superior to others, and attempted to eradicate the inferior races. It didn't try to build an empire where there were subjects, rather it tried to impose the German way of life on everyone by allowing the "superior race" to propagate while exterminating the inferior races.

The people who bore the brunt of this were the Jews. Lest you forget, these are the blood relatives of the Theotokos, as well as Jesus Christ. While they may be wrong in their rejection of Christ, remember that Paul gives us strict instructions on how to handle them. Killing them and vilifying them is not in those instructions.

Absolutely. Many empires have been brutal. The Roman empire saw the massacre of a great many peoples in its expansion.

However the Nazi empire was one based on extermination.

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« Reply #89 on: April 10, 2013, 12:31:48 AM »


Let me ask you a question, do  you think God allowed the holocaust just to happen?
Do you know of anything that happens against God's Will?

I've heard that the Jews actually find God complicit in allowing it.
The Problem of Evil has been vexing Christianity for centuries too

The Jews have actually "judged" God.
How they deal with it is up to them.



By the way, did you read about Presidents Bush family involvement in the rise of the Nazis...?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar
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