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Author Topic: Hitler's hate towards the Jews  (Read 9273 times) Average Rating: 0
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Charles Martel
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« Reply #405 on: April 20, 2013, 07:17:16 AM »

If you have a source with no axe to grind that would be great.
Does quoting you qualify?
Answering me would suffice  Wink

Marxists are against the state of Israel. Some extreme right-wing Jews are too. Naturally enough they would want to come up for their own reasons for decrying the existence of Israel
So just what does a "socialist" like yourself believe about the current state of Israel?

Do you believe they have the "right" to exist?

Personally I believe any people that fight for the right of self-determination can have whatever nation, land or country they can obtain through their own efforts, if Israel has estabished itself on it's own merits, then so be it.

And if she dies tommorrow, then so be that as well.

We don't seem to shed any tears for any other nation or people that have been selected for extinction for one reason or another, I don't see a global effort to re-establish  lands for the native tribes in the Americas due in part to they somehow have some "right to exist".
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« Reply #406 on: April 20, 2013, 07:33:53 AM »

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Why did Hitler hate the Jews?

He was a racist nut.
"racism" is another bogus word made up by Communists Leftists like Trotsky and his ilk.

What do you mean by "racism"? What defines that word? Who defines it?

Hitler and the NS were if anything, ethno-centric and ultra-patriotic or nationalistic, with the belief system of taking care of what was good for Germany first, not the global banksters, not the International Marxists, Germany for Germans above all, not global domination like world wide Communism or the "Sun never setting" on their Empire like their British antagonists.

Germany for Germans. Now that's a radical concept then  like it is today. Any nation on the planet that takes steps to protect it's own interests first is somehow labeled "radical" or a "tyranny" unless it has support of the Western "democracies" (what a joke).

Which brings us to what the Zionists believe as well, the first question is, "Is it good for Jews"? That is always the main concern.

Which is understandable. But whenever the nonJew or "goyim" ask this question it becomes a problem or somehow percieved as "racist" or evil and all of the sudden must be attacked and suppressed before it gains any real recognition or mommentum in garnishing a people to take care of their interests first and not the International "community".
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« Reply #407 on: April 20, 2013, 08:51:31 AM »

So just what does a "socialist" like yourself believe about the current state of Israel?

Do you believe they have the "right" to exist?
Yes
Personally I believe any people that fight for the right of self-determination can have whatever nation, land or country they can obtain through their own efforts, if Israel has estabished itself on it's own merits, then so be it.

And if she dies tommorrow, then so be that as well.
Great. What's this got to do with your apology for evil?
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« Reply #408 on: April 20, 2013, 08:54:07 AM »

Quote
Why did Hitler hate the Jews?

He was a racist nut.
"racism" is another bogus word made up by Communists Leftists like Trotsky and his ilk.

I've already addressed this. Marx himself would not have called himself Jewish. Certainly people with only one grand-parent would not. And yet Nazis defined these people as "Jews"

As if being "Jewish" had certain social traits that are inherited

You agree with the Nazi definition - that they are eternally Jewish.

I note too earlier you claimed I'd stated something about your posts that you said you never wrote. I evidenced this. You've quietly dropped that one.
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« Reply #409 on: April 20, 2013, 08:59:10 AM »

You're wrong about that.

NS Germans and Jewish Zionists were in effect Nationalists whose main concern were for  the betterment and defense of their ethnic, cultural and religious heritage and people, polar opposites of the borderless,atheist, raceless belief system of International Communism or what you would describe as "Marxism".

Nazi's and Zio-Nazi's have more in common than you would believe.

That isn't a rebuttal of what I said. You claiming that they have more in common doesn't mean that they worked together!

I evidenced where people can have converging ideas and still not work together.

Another example: I as an Orthodox believe that God created the world. I am not a 'creationist' however (as this is defined as someone who believes in creation science - and as St. Basil said we shouldn't tie our faith to science). And that's even where we fairly much agree on a point; that God created the world!

Your say so that Zionists and Nazis worked together is not evidenced by anything from the Nazi side of things. The evidence presented so far is from those groups who have a vested interest in discrediting the state of Israel - which is not synonymous with Israel. Sending people to Palestine does not mean that the state of Israel (as it is) had to be the only conclusion. Some advocated sharing a state with the Arabs.

But that is yet ANOTHER hole in your apology for Nazism.
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« Reply #410 on: April 20, 2013, 09:08:00 AM »

Germany for Germans. Now that's a radical concept then  like it is today. Any nation on the planet that takes steps to protect it's own interests first is somehow labeled "radical" or a "tyranny" unless it has support of the Western "democracies" (what a joke).


The way you use it, and the Nazis used it, is racist. It's defined on a racist understanding of what it means to be 'German'.

Many Jews who's roots in Germany was quite old, fought for Germany in World War One. They considered themselves 'Germans.'

Along comes Hitler and redefined them as being something that was considered an antithesis of German-ness

Germany was know for its leadership in science. Yet German scientists who were also Jewish (as defined by Nazism) were found to be unwanted in Germany.

I am Australian. You don't know the colour of my skin or my ethnic background. I am as Australian as many people who 'look' Chinese - who have been in Australia as long as my relatives, and who have fought in Australia's wars, such as WWI.

However there are racists here too who define these people on how they appear. To racists they will always be 'Asian' first. Racism is long-standing here too, and in fact was government policy - regardless of which political party was in power. Known as the White Australia Policy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Australia_Policy). We didn't round up people and gas them, as the people you apologise for did, but it was racist, never-the-less.

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« Reply #411 on: April 20, 2013, 11:07:18 AM »

NS Germans and Jewish Zionists were in effect Nationalists whose main concern were for  the betterment and defense of their ethnic, cultural and religious heritage and people, polar opposites of the borderless,atheist, raceless belief system of International Communism or what you would describe as "Marxism".

Hitler was a religious person and the III Reich endorsed Christianity.

I learn something new from this thread every day. I must consult my parents (History majors both).
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« Reply #412 on: April 20, 2013, 11:19:33 AM »

Er, well, not exactly.  The National Socialist German Workers' Party was officially non-religious.  Most of the higher-ups in the Party eschewed the Christian religions and took up pagan practices (hence the use of runes in their symbolism).

Hitler's Christianity was largely informed by Wagner.  Here's a brief quote on Wagner's "christianity":

Incomparably fewer in individual numbers than the lower races, the ruin of the white races may be referred to their having been obliged to mix with them; whereby, as remarked already, they suffered more from the loss of their purity than the others could gain by the ennobling of their blood [...] To us Equality is only thinkable as based upon a universal moral concord, such as we can but deem true Christianity elect to bring about.  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_controversies#Racism)


Hitler misappropriated Christianity for his own purposes, just as his Party used Nietsche and Wagner to further their own transparently unchristian attitudes and ideas.  Calling Hitler a 'Christian' is tantamount to calling Stalin 'Orthodox'.

Hitler would have gotten nowhere without the cooperation of the German Army, whose motto was "Gott Mit Uns."  He needed to be 'Christian' far more than he actually was.  Kind of like American presidents who must have a photo op holding a Bible and strolling to church, yet rarely going when there is no media attention.


NS Germans and Jewish Zionists were in effect Nationalists whose main concern were for  the betterment and defense of their ethnic, cultural and religious heritage and people, polar opposites of the borderless,atheist, raceless belief system of International Communism or what you would describe as "Marxism".

Hitler was a religious person and the III Reich endorsed Christianity.

I learn something new from this thread every day. I must consult my parents (History majors both).
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« Reply #413 on: April 20, 2013, 11:31:45 AM »

Er, well, not exactly.  The National Socialist German Workers' Party was officially non-religious.  Most of the higher-ups in the Party eschewed the Christian religions and took up pagan practices (hence the use of runes in their symbolism).

Hitler's Christianity was largely informed by Wagner.  Here's a brief quote on Wagner's "christianity":

Incomparably fewer in individual numbers than the lower races, the ruin of the white races may be referred to their having been obliged to mix with them; whereby, as remarked already, they suffered more from the loss of their purity than the others could gain by the ennobling of their blood [...] To us Equality is only thinkable as based upon a universal moral concord, such as we can but deem true Christianity elect to bring about.  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_controversies#Racism)


Hitler misappropriated Christianity for his own purposes, just as his Party used Nietsche and Wagner to further their own transparently unchristian attitudes and ideas.  Calling Hitler a 'Christian' is tantamount to calling Stalin 'Orthodox'.

Hitler would have gotten nowhere without the cooperation of the German Army, whose motto was "Gott Mit Uns."  He needed to be 'Christian' far more than he actually was.  Kind of like American presidents who must have a photo op holding a Bible and strolling to church, yet rarely going when there is no media attention.
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I agree with you. Hitler spoke highly of Christianity only so long as he needed to... when he assumed political power it was only in coalition with Christian conservatives, so naturally enough Hitler told them what they wanted to hear

Von Papen was in partnership with Hitler. Franz von Papen was Catholic, and the party he was with (until c.1932); the Centre Party was Catholic.
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« Reply #414 on: April 20, 2013, 11:46:40 AM »

Hitler was raised Catholic, iirc, and is said to have spat out the host.  His anti-religious viewpoint has been extensively discussed in biographies and works of history.

The Nazis actually came up with their own version of a 'church' with portraits of Hitler and Nazi flags adorning the buildings, like a cult of the Fuerher.  It was created to usurp the Evangelical Lutheran church and replace it with Nazi propaganda.
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« Reply #415 on: April 20, 2013, 11:58:12 AM »


You are relying on testimony at the Nuremburg trials.  
I can elaborate, but my short answer reply to resorting to such evidence is that I have seen convincing evidence that the Nuremburg trials used methods including torture and threats to exact confessions which were false.  That would make it a model of tyranny for victors over weak and power uber alles which is exactly how capitalism has shaped post-war american society.  The weak are made to conform regardless of truth or inconvenient laws or traditions.

I will take a look at Eichmann's testimony as you suggest when I get the chance.


Yes, the United States has made a tremendous effort to export our values around the globe.  And in the cases of Germany and Japan, Thank God! That does not make the Nuremberg Trials a farce or kangaroo court of some type.  There is actually a lot of evidence on that site if you look at it.  

And to add, one of those U.S.A. values give you the right to get on an American website and put forth Holocaust denial conspiracy theories.  Neo-Nazis in Germany have had to move their sites offshore to the United States so they can try to make a platform to spread their propaganda.

Even the Germans themselves own up to what they did.  

The problem with conspiracy theorists is that nothing will ever be acceptable to them except another conspiracy theory.  Everything that doesn't agree with the conspiracy theory is dismissed, no matter how compelling the evidence.  

I grew up watching old World at War documentary history films, and watched old crappy quality film footage of Germans shooting Jews into large trenches, and showed trenches full of dead, skeletal bodies.  I remember one officer shooting someone in the back of the head, and he was sprayed with blood, which really disgusted him.  More evidence.

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« Reply #416 on: April 20, 2013, 12:22:44 PM »




Considering that the livelihood of the Athens Chief of police Angelos Evert was spent hunting communists, I doubt that he saved more peope than he killed and endangered - including jews.  

The post-war anti-communist government of Greece was based upon this Nazi racist system of which he was an active part. 

The Greek communists led by Aris Velouchiotis and Stefanos Sarafis were the greatest friends of both jews and Greek peasants.  Police chief Angelos Evert and Bishop Damaskinos were part of the Nazi system that persecuted jews and communists alike in WWII Greece.  

Frieends of Greek Jewry * bestows annual Moral Courage Award on General Stefanos Sarafis
http://www.internationalwallofprayer.org/A-139-Awards-of-Moral-Courage-Rescue-of-Greek-Jews.html

*of the Kehila Kenosha Synagogue of Greek Jews in Manhattan, NY (Romaniote)

It appeared that the fascist Greek government which the CIA and British had Sarafis assassinated by an american military man in the mid-1950's.
Sarafis himself did write an excellent history of the war in 1946 from the communist perspective.


You are mixing up time periods here and not addressing the real evidence that exists in Greece as to Nazi protocols and actions of rounding up and sending Greek Jews to their deaths.  Greek Orthodox priests were also sent to death camps and killed for attempting to hide and protect Jews.

Among the first things the Nazis did upon their arrival in Greece was to demand lists of all the Jewry.  It was clear what was going on. 

The Greeks had a vigorous resistance, if not the most effective resistance in all of Europe, to the Nazi invasion.  All this while a famine hit right after Germans arrived, and people were dropping dead in the streets.  They couldn't even bury them all.  It was truly horrible. 

Now you are denigrating Greeks for being the only ones who dared stand up to the Nazi plan of 'exterminating' all the Jews. 
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« Reply #417 on: April 20, 2013, 01:25:27 PM »

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Great. What's this got to do with your apology for evil?
Show me any apologetics for "evil" in any of my posts.

Quote
I've already addressed this. Marx himself would not have called himself Jewish
And I've addressed the fact that Marx was still considered a Jew amongst his own people/religion, regardless of his father's supposed "conversion" to Luthernism. both his parents were ethincally Jewish, most importantly his biological mother, which in turn makes him always a Jew according to Orthodox Judaism.And most other sects for that matter. The Jews themselves declare this, I'm not concerned what Marx would have called himself. He was and always will be consider a Jew according to the Jews themselves;

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/whojew1.html

According to Jewish law, a child born to a Jewish mother or an adult who has converted to Judaism is considered a Jew; one does not have to reaffirm their Jewishness or practice any of the laws of the Torah to be Jewish. According to Reform Judaism, a person is a Jew if they were born to either a Jewish mother or a Jewish father. Also, Reform Judaism stresses the importance of being raised Jewish; if a child is born to Jewish parents and was not raised Jewish then the child is not considered Jewish. According to the Orthodox movement, the father’s religion and whether the person practices is immaterial. No affirmation or upbringing is needed, as long as the mother was Jewish.



Quote
Certainly people with only one grand-parent would not. And yet Nazis defined these people as "Jews"

Wrong again, they were defined as "Mischling", sort of the German version of what spanish Latin Americans would describe as "Mestizo", in other words, crossbreeds or half-breeds. but many of these "partial" Jews were active and even instrumental in NS society even serving in the German Army during WWII;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mischling

According to the 1939 Reich census, there were about 72,000 Mischlinge of the 1st degree, some 39,000 of the 2nd degree, and probably tens of thousands more of higher degrees, which, however, were not recorded.[19]

"According to historian and Israeli Army and U.S. Marine Corps veteran Bryan Mark Rigg, up to 160,000 soldiers who were one-quarter, one-half, and even full Jewish served in the German armed forces during World War II, including several generals and admirals and at least one field marshal, Erhard Milch.[20]"

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« Reply #418 on: April 20, 2013, 01:38:24 PM »

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As if being "Jewish" had certain social traits that are inherited
What? Where did I say this? At any rate, Judaism is the only religion that seems to be "inherited", literally.

Quote
You agree with the Nazi definition - that they are eternally Jewish.

No, Jews believe this. I don't agree with nothing  "eternal"outside what the RCC teaches.

Quote
I note too earlier you claimed I'd stated something about your posts that you said you never wrote. I evidenced this. You've quietly dropped that one.
What? Where? You make so many damn posts I can't keep up with your rhetoric since I neither have the time or the motivation to answer everyone of your false accusations and detraction of my character just because I don't believe everything you ever read or wrote about Jews, Nazis and the "holocaust"™.
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« Reply #419 on: April 20, 2013, 01:47:23 PM »

Offered to be killed instead of some Jewish man in Auschwitz (he took blame for him). The Germans squirted him with gasoline and put on fire.

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« Reply #420 on: April 20, 2013, 01:53:21 PM »

You're wrong about that.

NS Germans and Jewish Zionists were in effect Nationalists whose main concern were for  the betterment and defense of their ethnic, cultural and religious heritage and people, polar opposites of the borderless,atheist, raceless belief system of International Communism or what you would describe as "Marxism".

Nazi's and Zio-Nazi's have more in common than you would believe.

That isn't a rebuttal of what I said. You claiming that they have more in common doesn't mean that they worked together!

I evidenced where people can have converging ideas and still not work together.

Another example: I as an Orthodox believe that God created the world. I am not a 'creationist' however (as this is defined as someone who believes in creation science - and as St. Basil said we shouldn't tie our faith to science). And that's even where we fairly much agree on a point; that God created the world!

Your say so that Zionists and Nazis worked together is not evidenced by anything from the Nazi side of things. The evidence presented so far is from those groups who have a vested interest in discrediting the state of Israel - which is not synonymous with Israel. Sending people to Palestine does not mean that the state of Israel (as it is) had to be the only conclusion. Some advocated sharing a state with the Arabs.

But that is yet ANOTHER hole in your apology for Nazism.
I never said anything on this thread that Nazi's and Zionists "collaborated" but I have heard this all before but I haven't "evidenced" either way. What I have said is that both Nazism and Zionism, as in the state of Israel are beleif systems with Nationalist tendencies, they seem to be to be the opposite sides of the same Nationalist coin except for the fact that Zionism is much more religiously/ethnically charged on this issue. Race or ethinicty is a much more imprtant factor to the Zionists than the German Nazi's who eventually allowed other ethnicities into  the NS Reich. NS was more of a political movement allowing different religions, ethnicities and races under their umbrella as compared to Jewish Zionism with it's exclusive members only Jewish club.

This is blatanlty obvious but drives Zionists/Jewish apologists like yourself crazy for merely pointing it out.
Because of what many would describe as hate literature you have posted on this thread you are immediately being placed on post moderation provisionally for a period of 99 days.  You raise some interesting points for discussion, but the promotion of holocaust denial is a criminal offence in many countries.  The aggressive tone used against other posters is  unnecessary and has contributed to a poisoning of the "atmosphere" on this board at a time when Orthodox Christians are still deeply immersed in their lenten discipline. Additionally, the ad hominems you sometimes resort to are not permitted.  I am going to consult with the rest of the moderation team.  Over the next couple of days we will together decide whether your moderation status should be lowered to warning level, increased, or remain the same.  

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« Reply #421 on: April 20, 2013, 02:06:04 PM »

Germany for Germans. Now that's a radical concept then  like it is today. Any nation on the planet that takes steps to protect it's own interests first is somehow labeled "radical" or a "tyranny" unless it has support of the Western "democracies" (what a joke).


The way you use it, and the Nazis used it, is racist. It's defined on a racist understanding of what it means to be 'German'.

Many Jews who's roots in Germany was quite old, fought for Germany in World War One. They considered themselves 'Germans.'

Along comes Hitler and redefined them as being something that was considered an antithesis of German-ness

Germany was know for its leadership in science. Yet German scientists who were also Jewish (as defined by Nazism) were found to be unwanted in Germany.

I am Australian. You don't know the colour of my skin or my ethnic background. I am as Australian as many people who 'look' Chinese - who have been in Australia as long as my relatives, and who have fought in Australia's wars, such as WWI.

However there are racists here too who define these people on how they appear. To racists they will always be 'Asian' first. Racism is long-standing here too, and in fact was government policy - regardless of which political party was in power. Known as the White Australia Policy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Australia_Policy). We didn't round up people and gas them, as the people you apologise for did, but it was racist, never-the-less.


And yet Jews were serving in the Wehrmacht and the Reich as well. so go figure.

You can read all about it.

http://www.amazon.com/Lives-Hitlers-Jewish-Soldiers-Descent/dp/0700616381

Don't even get started on "racism" and Asians.

Most Asian nations and the Orient happen to be  amongst the most racially and ethnically conscious and defensive nations on the planet.

And it's not a problem with me.

But it is with paranoid, delusionals and globalists who hate such things as borders, language, culture and diversity.
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« Reply #422 on: April 20, 2013, 02:20:04 PM »

The Greeks had a vigorous resistance, if not the most effective resistance in all of Europe, to the Nazi invasion.  All this while a famine hit right after Germans arrived, and people were dropping dead in the streets.  They couldn't even bury them all.  It was truly horrible. 

Now you are denigrating Greeks for being the only ones who dared stand up to the Nazi plan of 'exterminating' all the Jews. 

Sorry, but Greece is not the only country that dared to stand up against the Holocaust. Bulgaria and Denmark could be mentioned for example.
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« Reply #423 on: April 20, 2013, 02:20:39 PM »

NS was more of a political movement allowing different religions, ethnicities and races under their umbrella

Were you homeschooled?
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« Reply #424 on: April 20, 2013, 02:21:02 PM »

Er, well, not exactly.  The National Socialist German Workers' Party was officially non-religious.  Most of the higher-ups in the Party eschewed the Christian religions and took up pagan practices (hence the use of runes in their symbolism).

Hitler's Christianity was largely informed by Wagner.  Here's a brief quote on Wagner's "christianity":

Incomparably fewer in individual numbers than the lower races, the ruin of the white races may be referred to their having been obliged to mix with them; whereby, as remarked already, they suffered more from the loss of their purity than the others could gain by the ennobling of their blood [...] To us Equality is only thinkable as based upon a universal moral concord, such as we can but deem true Christianity elect to bring about.  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_controversies#Racism)


Hitler misappropriated Christianity for his own purposes, just as his Party used Nietsche and Wagner to further their own transparently unchristian attitudes and ideas.  Calling Hitler a 'Christian' is tantamount to calling Stalin 'Orthodox'.

Hitler would have gotten nowhere without the cooperation of the German Army, whose motto was "Gott Mit Uns."  He needed to be 'Christian' far more than he actually was.  Kind of like American presidents who must have a photo op holding a Bible and strolling to church, yet rarely going when there is no media attention.


NS Germans and Jewish Zionists were in effect Nationalists whose main concern were for  the betterment and defense of their ethnic, cultural and religious heritage and people, polar opposites of the borderless,atheist, raceless belief system of International Communism or what you would describe as "Marxism".

Hitler was a religious person and the III Reich endorsed Christianity.

I learn something new from this thread every day. I must consult my parents (History majors both).
And yet Hitler was influenced by much of Christian theology. Though born a Catholic, he seemed to sway towards Luther as time went on and recognized him as one of the spiritual fathers of Germany itself.

At any rate, the offical Nazi policy was basically the belif that the needs of the German people and Germany itself came before squabbling over religious theology. Many Nazis were Christians, many weren't and yes, many were anti-Christianity. Just like in America today, religion then just as now, was a very divisive issue.

But Hitler and most of the upper Nazi's believed the pagans to be kooks even though they used them as well for political and cultural advantage in some way. To be honest, I think many were atheists or ambivalent towards religion either way.
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« Reply #425 on: April 20, 2013, 02:26:50 PM »

NS was more of a political movement allowing different religions, ethnicities and races under their umbrella

Were you homeschooled?
Were you?

Having said that;










German Nazi high-ranking officers inspecting the Hanzar Division of Amin Al Husseini.
 
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« Reply #426 on: April 20, 2013, 02:30:06 PM »

NS was more of a political movement allowing different religions, ethnicities and races under their umbrella

Were you homeschooled?
Were you?

Having said that;










German Nazi high-ranking officers inspecting the Hanzar Division of Amin Al Husseini.
 


Just read the 25 points of NSDAP program. If you won't understand it - read again.
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« Reply #427 on: April 20, 2013, 02:58:18 PM »


The problem with conspiracy theorists is that nothing will ever be acceptable to them except another conspiracy theeory.  Everything that doesn't agree with the conspiracy theory is dismissed, no matter how compelling the evidence.


Amen.
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« Reply #428 on: April 20, 2013, 03:41:42 PM »

Offered to be killed instead of some Jewish man in Auschwitz (he took blame for him). The Germans squirted him with gasoline and put on fire.


That's horrible. Is he a saint? Who is he? Do you have any sources on this?
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« Reply #429 on: April 20, 2013, 03:47:22 PM »

Offered to be killed instead of some Jewish man in Auschwitz (he took blame for him). The Germans squirted him with gasoline and put on fire.


That's horrible. Is he a saint? Who is he? Do you have any sources on this?

I have but why would I share them if you don't believe in Holocaust and death camps? According to you he died in the 1980' due to old age.
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« Reply #430 on: April 20, 2013, 03:54:01 PM »

Offered to be killed instead of some Jewish man in Auschwitz (he took blame for him). The Germans squirted him with gasoline and put on fire.


That's horrible. Is he a saint? Who is he? Do you have any sources on this?

I have but why would I share them if you don't believe in Holocaust and death camps? According to you he died in the 1980' due to old age.
Then don't.

BTW, I never said no one died or civilians weren't murdered during WWII, so why don't you and a few others stop with the nonsense.

I just don't buy into the whole "holoco$t" industry and racket it's become.

I'm just interested in the truth, I don't care what you or anyone else on here thinks of me.
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« Reply #431 on: April 20, 2013, 05:04:33 PM »






I do not care for your nasty rhetoric in this thread, Michal, but since you posted this icon, WHO IS THIS SAINT, and WHAT IS HIS FEAST DAY.

Yes, I am shouting so that you will read this post and answer our question.
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« Reply #432 on: April 20, 2013, 05:12:00 PM »


You are relying on testimony at the Nuremburg trials.  
I can elaborate, but my short answer reply to resorting to such evidence is that I have seen convincing evidence that the Nuremburg trials used methods including torture and threats to exact confessions which were false.  That would make it a model of tyranny for victors over weak and power uber alles which is exactly how capitalism has shaped post-war american society.  The weak are made to conform regardless of truth or inconvenient laws or traditions.

I will take a look at Eichmann's testimony as you suggest when I get the chance.


Yes, the United States has made a tremendous effort to export our values around the globe.  And in the cases of Germany and Japan, Thank God! That does not make the Nuremberg Trials a farce or kangaroo court of some type.  There is actually a lot of evidence on that site if you look at it.  

And to add, one of those U.S.A. values give you the right to get on an American website and put forth Holocaust denial conspiracy theories.  Neo-Nazis in Germany have had to move their sites offshore to the United States so they can try to make a platform to spread their propaganda.

Even the Germans themselves own up to what they did.  

The problem with conspiracy theorists is that nothing will ever be acceptable to them except another conspiracy theory.  Everything that doesn't agree with the conspiracy theory is dismissed, no matter how compelling the evidence.  

I grew up watching old World at War documentary history films, and watched old crappy quality film footage of Germans shooting Jews into large trenches, and showed trenches full of dead, skeletal bodies.  I remember one officer shooting someone in the back of the head, and he was sprayed with blood, which really disgusted him.  More evidence.



I grew up watching those old historical documents too.
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« Reply #433 on: April 20, 2013, 05:14:06 PM »

I do not care for your nasty rhetoric in this thread, Michal, but since you posted this icon, WHO IS THIS SAINT, and WHAT IS HIS FEAST DAY.

St. Gregory Peradze. In the Eastern Orthodox Church his feastday is Dec 6. I doubt your Church commemorates him.
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« Reply #434 on: April 20, 2013, 05:24:38 PM »

I do not care for your nasty rhetoric in this thread, Michal, but since you posted this icon, WHO IS THIS SAINT, and WHAT IS HIS FEAST DAY.

St. Gregory Peradze. In the Eastern Orthodox Church his feastday is Dec 6. I doubt your Church commemorates him.

You might be pleasantly surprised. We actually celebrate a lot of the saints honored in the OCA and in the ROCOR.

http://liturgia.cerkiew.pl/page.php?id=156
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« Reply #435 on: April 20, 2013, 08:16:11 PM »

Show me any apologetics for "evil" in any of my posts.
I'd simply have to re-post everything you wrote.

According to Jewish law, a child born to a Jewish mother
That's not true. Not only have we gone over this, you're ignoring
a) the Nazi definition of a Jew
and
b) any link between Marx as a Jew and communism

Whilst you can cite a single Jewish opinion on this, they aren't the spokespeople for Judaism.

Wrong again, they were defined as "Mischling", sort of the German version of what spanish Latin Americans would describe as "Mestizo", in other words, crossbreeds or half-breeds. but many of these "partial" Jews were active and even instrumental in NS society even serving in the German Army during WWII;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mischling
If you read your own source it would note, as I have, that many "Jews" were in fact Protestants.
Converts from Judaism usually adopted that Christian denomination dominant in the area of Germany where they used to live. Therefore about 80% of the Gentile Germans persecuted as Jews according to the Nuremberg Laws were affiliated with one of the 28 regionally delineated Protestants church bodies
(ibid.)

However saying that they were "Mischling" and not Jews, is an attempt at diversion. They were "Jewish Mischling" - they had to wear the Star of David - as other Jews, not any other symbol

So not only are you attempting an answer by diversion, your own source supports what I said!
According to the 1939 Reich census, there were about 72,000 Mischlinge of the 1st degree, some 39,000 of the 2nd degree, and probably tens of thousands more of higher degrees, which, however, were not recorded.[19]
Which is not addressing my point...
"According to historian and Israeli Army and U.S. Marine Corps veteran Bryan Mark Rigg, up to 160,000 soldiers who were one-quarter, one-half, and even full Jewish served in the German armed forces during World War II, including several generals and admirals and at least one field marshal, Erhard Milch.[20]"
That's also been covered

There are many examples of Jews who successfully hid their Jewishness. If you've any more 'facts' in your apology for evil, I'd still be interested in reading them
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« Reply #436 on: April 20, 2013, 08:18:51 PM »

And yet Hitler was influenced by much of Christian theology.

Show me the causal links between Christianity and anything Hitler did.
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« Reply #437 on: April 20, 2013, 11:10:06 PM »

And yet Jews were serving in the Wehrmacht and the Reich as well. so go figure.

Already addressed this. Exceptions don't make rules. Japanese served with the US, despite their families being kept in detention. There's these interesting cases throughout history. British PoWs were recruited into the SS, too.

You apology for evil isn't negated by exceptions.
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« Reply #438 on: April 20, 2013, 11:14:13 PM »

Were you?
That's not an answer to the question
Having said that;

What's the relevance of Nazis who hated the Jews recruiting Moslems who hated Jews?

There were also Ukrainian SS units - even though the Slavs were deemed 'sub-human' by the Nazis.


And oddly enough today there are even Russian Nazis
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« Reply #439 on: April 21, 2013, 12:30:15 AM »

The weird Nazi apology here; involving all arguments at once would have you believe that the Nazis weren't racist because they had Jews in their army. I believe there were Hindus too!

Well, they had slavs and Bosnian Moslms too. Their allies Hungary and Finland were non-Aryan too. Italy was less-militaristic than German, but was made an ally. Germany made puppet states of slavs; Croatia/Slovenia and, Slovakia.

Does this negate their racism? Not at all. They allied themselves to the very un-Aryan Japanese, and although they railed at communism were, briefly the very best of friends following the Nazi-Soviet Pact.

Same with Hitler and religion; he espoused some Christian values, but hated them.

What does this mean? Nazis were opportunists.
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« Reply #440 on: April 21, 2013, 07:14:52 AM »


Nice you googled my parish' website.
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« Reply #441 on: April 21, 2013, 02:58:52 PM »

NS Germans and Jewish Zionists were in effect Nationalists whose main concern were for  the betterment and defense of their ethnic, cultural and religious heritage and people, polar opposites of the borderless,atheist, raceless belief system of International Communism or what you would describe as "Marxism".

Hitler was a religious person and the III Reich endorsed Christianity.

I learn something new from this thread every day. I must consult my parents (History majors both).

I have to say that you make a good point here.  
It appears to me that Hitler's catholicism was nothing more than nominal.

Hitler issued a decree for the euthanasia, killing of weak, old, and disabled people around 1941.  
To his immense credit, the catholic Bishop von Galen of Munster loudly protested against Hitler for this horror and Hitler backed down.

Bishop von Galen was very patriotic and pro-German, and he suddenly died in 1946.
I suspect that the British murdered him because he was an influential public German figure whose image they could not tarnish and whose opinions were quite inconvenient, and historical evidence shows British antipathy towards Bishop von Galen.  I suspect the fact that Bishop von Galen was not pro-allied also explains why he is such a relatively unknown opponent of Hitler.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clemens_August_Graf_von_Galen#Death_and_beatification
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« Reply #442 on: April 21, 2013, 03:11:13 PM »

It seems to me that devout Frankists like Bishop von Galen and Fr. Paul Marx's Human Life International represent aspects of western catholicism which are commendable. 

"If we are able to extract something good from outside, it is not forbidden.  Let us become approved bankers, gathering the genuine and pure gold and discarding the counterfeit."
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« Reply #443 on: April 21, 2013, 03:19:08 PM »

Hitler was a religious person and the III Reich endorsed Christianity.

What are you talking about? Hitler was a staunch atheist. He was recorded once saying that Christianity was a bastardization of Judaism that needed to be eradicated off Earth as well. The only time he ever spoke positively of Christianity was during his public speeches, in which he was using it as a propoganda tool to fool the Christian masses in Germany.
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« Reply #444 on: April 21, 2013, 03:38:01 PM »

Hitler was a religious person and the III Reich endorsed Christianity.

What are you talking about? Hitler was a staunch atheist. He was recorded once saying that Christianity was a bastardization of Judaism that needed to be eradicated off Earth as well. The only time he ever spoke positively of Christianity was during his public speeches, in which he was using it as a propoganda tool to fool the Christian masses in Germany.

I would not say that he was an atheist.  He was heavily involved in the occult.  I agree that Nazis were not Christians.  It was their intent to "deal with" Roman Catholics and other Christians after they dealt with the Jews.  Most high level Nazis recorded their religion as "God Believing".  They do not mention which God.  My mother and aunts and uncle were all named after old Germanic gods.
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« Reply #445 on: April 21, 2013, 03:39:45 PM »

Hitler was a religious person and the III Reich endorsed Christianity.

What are you talking about? Hitler was a staunch atheist. He was recorded once saying that Christianity was a bastardization of Judaism that needed to be eradicated off Earth as well. The only time he ever spoke positively of Christianity was during his public speeches, in which he was using it as a propoganda tool to fool the Christian masses in Germany.

To be fair to Michael Kalina, I think the context of that statement shows that it was "Charles Martel" who claimed that Hitler was a defender of religion, and Kalina seems to have merely written out the idea in order to consider how absurd it is.
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« Reply #446 on: April 21, 2013, 03:41:17 PM »

I would not say that he was an atheist.  He was heavily involved in the occult.  I agree that Nazis were not Christians.  It was their intent to "deal with" Roman Catholics and other Christians after they dealt with the Jews.  Most high level Nazis recorded their religion as "God Believing".  They do not mention which God.
Very well put.
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« Reply #447 on: April 21, 2013, 03:46:56 PM »

To be fair to Michael Kalina, I think the context of that statement shows that it was "Charles Martel" who claimed that Hitler was a defender of religion, and Kalina seems to have merely written out the idea in order to consider how absurd it is.

Political leaders may well "endorse" one or even several religions without actually believing in any of them, if that is in their best interest.  
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« Reply #448 on: April 21, 2013, 03:48:38 PM »

Now you are denigrating Greeks ...

I read that Aris Velouchiotis, much like a Greek Fidel Castro, led a peasant movement against the Nazis that succeeded in taking back most of Greece from the Nazis in the early 1940's that limited the Nazis to the big cities of Greece like Athens and Salonica long before they withdrew completely and in fact led to their withdrawal.  I think Aris's anti-Nazi uprising was a good thing.  Do you agree?
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« Reply #449 on: April 21, 2013, 03:56:04 PM »

I just realized that the protest sermons of Bishop von Galen of Munster were the original inspiration for the German anti-Nazi White Rose Society!

Sermon Against the Gestapo of 13 July 1941
By Bishop von Galen of Munster
http://www.priestsforlife.org/preaching/vongalen07-13.htm

Four Sermons in Defiance of the Nazis
By Bishop von Galen of Munster
http://kirchensite.de/downloads/Aktuelles/Predigt_Galen_Englisch.pdf
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