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Author Topic: Hitler's hate towards the Jews  (Read 7240 times) Average Rating: 0
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Michał Kalina
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« Reply #225 on: April 15, 2013, 06:12:40 AM »

How bout the one in Katyn where the Soviet NKVD systematically  slaughtered thousands of Polish nationals and blamed the atrocity on the Nazi's? There are literally hundreds of stories like this form the murdeous communists regimes, but we never hear of them because the slaughter of nonJews will never steal the headlines from God's chosen.

I hear about Katyń all the time. The main differences are a) numbers and b) the fact that only soldiers were executed then. There were no civil victims in Katyń, and certainly not infants (I mean only victims from Poland, not executed USSR citizens).

And what was your point?
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« Reply #226 on: April 15, 2013, 08:11:17 AM »

How bout the one in Katyn where the Soviet NKVD systematically  slaughtered thousands of Polish nationals and blamed the atrocity on the Nazi's? There are literally hundreds of stories like this form the murdeous communists regimes, but we never hear of them because the slaughter of nonJews will never steal the headlines from God's chosen.

I hear about Katyń all the time. The main differences are a) numbers and b) the fact that only soldiers were executed then. There were no civil victims in Katyń, and certainly not infants (I mean only victims from Poland, not executed USSR citizens).

And what was your point?

It has no point except to distract from Nazi evils.

And even Katyń doesn't get Germany off the hook, because at the time of the massacre Germany and Russia were good friends!

Germany agreed to let Russia have control over a large part of Poland
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« Reply #227 on: April 15, 2013, 10:02:23 AM »

so it doesn't bother you that you've been lied to by the establishment with this  exaggerated 6 million jews number? you don't care about the truth  
You haven't shown

a) that this is exaggerated
or
b) what figure you would give


Along with the question I asked you - what did the Nazis do that you think was evil?


I, too, would like to hear either from Charles Martel or Sedevecantist the answers to those questions.
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« Reply #228 on: April 15, 2013, 10:10:59 AM »

I actually have a source for my "story".

So do I:

http://www.ab-ba.com.pl/page.php?id=90
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« Reply #229 on: April 15, 2013, 05:33:24 PM »

 
Quote
So his daughters weren't Jewish because of their mother, but Karl is because of his mother?

Marx was a Jew, both his parents were born Jewish, end of story, regardless how many bogus articles you produce by other Jews bemoaning the point he wasn't, The Wiki article even says his parents "converted" to escape "antisemitism", so he was in effect still of Jewish blood and most likely a Marrano Christian at that. Why do you continue to go down this road of denial that the father of Communism was  not a Jew when the whole world except you and a few on this forum know this?


Quote
You have said that the Jewish communists started the war, and that Germany was justified therefore in what they did – only you deny what they did!

No, I said there was a Communist threat in Europe and Germany in particular during the Nazi rise to power and the build-up before the war and many Jews were influential with them as well as anti-German feeling  since they were beginning to have Nationalist leanings and many Zionist Jews were tied in to the internationalist bankers that were trying to manipulate the German markets. Believe me, it wasn't just the "Jews" that were attacking Germany at the time, the Germans were still trying to recover from a world war that they neither wanted or started and never really surrendered but had to bear the burden for that crushed them as a people and nation.

The German Nationalists fought back against not just the Jewish Communists but all sorts of Leftists, liberals, Democrats, Western usurpers, etc. they were trying to establish a Germany for Germans first and believed in a labor-backed economy, not Internationalist bankers cre4ating money out of nothing and loading Germany with insurmountable debt that they would never pay off, like we;re dealing with in this country today, like they're dealing with in Europe as well. There's a lot more to the war than just "hitler was evil" and killed a lot of Jews. Yea, I know, I get it already. so let's start from the beginning like I was trying to answer the OP about WHY Hitler "hated" the Jews. Let's try and stay on topic and not go on salivating rants about the holoco$t or how much of a Nazi "sympathizer" I am.

Are you able to critically think for yourself or are you just gonna  just shoot off a thousand posts in a row about how many Jews those evil ol nazis killed? a lot of of people died in that war, millions and millions of Asians that you holocausters barely even mention, It's a tragedy on all ends. But i'm not here to discuss why each and every soul was lost on a war that wasn't good for anyone's interests.

Let's hear from you, why Hitler hated the Jews, that's it.


 
 

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« Reply #230 on: April 15, 2013, 05:37:23 PM »

The German Nationalists fought back against not just the Jewish Communists but all sorts of Leftists, liberals, Democrats, Western usurpers, etc. they were trying to establish a Germany for Germans first and believed in a labor-backed economy, not Internationalist bankers cre4ating money out of nothing and loading Germany with insurmountable debt that they would never pay off, like we;re dealing with in this country today, like they're dealing with in Europe as well. There's a lot more to the war than just "hitler was evil" and killed a lot of Jews. Yea, I know, I get it already. so let's start from the beginning like I was trying to answer the OP about WHY Hitler "hated" the Jews. Let's try and stay on topic and not go on salivating rants about the holoco$t or how much of a Nazi "sympathizer" I am.

Emphasis mine. I'm kinda surprised you discuss Hitler despite not even knowing what NSDAP stands for.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2013, 05:37:46 PM by Michał Kalina » Logged

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« Reply #231 on: April 15, 2013, 05:39:33 PM »

Quote
Quote from: Charles Martel on April 05, 2013, 05:11:26 AM
I agree and post WWI Germany was being raped by "Internationalist" bankers and infiltrated by worldwide communists.

So yea, the victim began fighting back.

Unfortunately a lot of lower-level, average Jews got caught up in it just like a lot of ethnic Germans.

But you are a fool to believe that not a single Jew was complicit in what happened during the Third Reich.


They are ‘complicit’ and Germany was the victim, fighting back.
So where did I state that all Jews should've been murdered in Germany at that time?

I didn't but that is what you are implying.

Enough with the detraction and calumny.

Try to stay on point.


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« Reply #232 on: April 15, 2013, 05:42:26 PM »

The German Nationalists fought back against not just the Jewish Communists but all sorts of Leftists, liberals, Democrats, Western usurpers, etc. they were trying to establish a Germany for Germans first and believed in a labor-backed economy, not Internationalist bankers cre4ating money out of nothing and loading Germany with insurmountable debt that they would never pay off, like we;re dealing with in this country today, like they're dealing with in Europe as well. There's a lot more to the war than just "hitler was evil" and killed a lot of Jews. Yea, I know, I get it already. so let's start from the beginning like I was trying to answer the OP about WHY Hitler "hated" the Jews. Let's try and stay on topic and not go on salivating rants about the holoco$t or how much of a Nazi "sympathizer" I am.

Emphasis mine. I'm kinda surprised you discuss Hitler despite not even knowing what NSDAP stands for.
[/quote It was born from the German Workers Party. They were not Leftists. they were not Democratists.

What is your point?
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« Reply #233 on: April 15, 2013, 05:49:56 PM »

Hitler was a member of a Leftist party. And you say he hated leftists? The ends don't match.
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« Reply #234 on: April 15, 2013, 06:11:18 PM »

Hitler was a member of a Leftist party. And you say he hated leftists? The ends don't match.
According to whom? If anything, Nazis are always accused of being Exterme Right Wing.

Try again Michal.
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« Reply #235 on: April 15, 2013, 06:11:48 PM »

Marx was a Jew, both his parents were born Jewish, end of story, regardless how many bogus articles you produce by other Jews bemoaning the point he wasn't,
You said none would say otherwise.
The Wiki article even says his parents "converted" to escape "antisemitism", so he was in effect still of Jewish blood and most likely a Marrano Christian at that. Why do you continue to go down this road of denial that the father of Communism was  not a Jew when the whole world except you and a few on this forum know this?
I don’t deny that he might be classed ethnically as a Jew. But that was my point. I was asking you about this and you insisted that his Jewishness was as defined as other Jews, not as the Nazis would have; by race.

His Jewishness ended when he himself became an atheist; he even declared himself anti-Jewish (religion).

That’s just part of your confused argument. You want to deny you’re following the racist stereo-type of the Nazis – and then you revert to a position that he’s always a Jew!

I haven’t even begun to tear apart your non-sequitur linking Judaism to Communism, because as practiced by Stalin it’s a very different form of Communism from Marxism.

I am a socialist. I have my socialism based on Christianity. I have a friend who’s an atheist and a Trotskyist. He would argue against that form of Communism in the Soviet Union under Stalin – Germany’s former friend, is based on
a)   Judaism, or;
b)   Marx

No, I said there was a Communist threat in Europe and Germany in particular during the Nazi rise to power and the build-up before the war and many Jews were influential with them as well as anti-German feeling  since they were beginning to have Nationalist leanings and many Zionist Jews were tied in to the internationalist bankers that were trying to manipulate the German markets.
These same Communists that the Nazis signed a treaty with?

Even before the Nazis came to power the Communist government in Russia was allowing Germans to train in their clandestine build-up of their armed forces
Believe me, it wasn't just the "Jews" that were attacking Germany at the time, the Germans were still trying to recover from a world war that they neither wanted or started and never really surrendered but had to bear the burden for that crushed them as a people and nation.
The silliness of this is that Jews fought FOR Germany in World War One, but were excluded by racism
The German Nationalists fought back against not just the Jewish Communists but all sorts of Leftists, liberals, Democrats, Western usurpers, etc. they were trying to establish a Germany for Germans first and believed in a labor-backed economy, not Internationalist bankers cre4ating money out of nothing and loading Germany with insurmountable debt that they would never pay off, like we;re dealing with in this country today, like they're dealing with in Europe as well. There's a lot more to the war than just "hitler was evil" and killed a lot of Jews. Yea, I know, I get it already. so let's start from the beginning like I was trying to answer the OP about WHY Hitler "hated" the Jews. Let's try and stay on topic and not go on salivating rants about the holoco$t or how much of a Nazi "sympathizer" I am.
And now you’re back to justifying Hitler. You keep putting on record this stream of self-contradictory posts
Are you able to critically think for yourself or are you just gonna  just shoot off a thousand posts in a row about how many Jews those evil ol nazis killed? a lot of of people died in that war, millions and millions of Asians that you holocausters barely even mention, It's a tragedy on all ends. But i'm not here to discuss why each and every soul was lost on a war that wasn't good for anyone's interests.
That’s a further non-sequitur.

“The holocausters barely mention” – a Jewish group dedicated to mentioning how many died in the Holocaust are indeed not going to mention how many died from another side. I look at pictures of the Vietnam memorial in Washington, and it’s full of the names of American servicemen. No Vietnamese communist names are recorded. We Australians were you allies. I don’t see Australians mentioned. I could rant “Americans barely mention others killed” too! But it’s silly. It’s ‘normal’ for a memorial to one thing doesn’t deal with other things.

Let's hear from you, why Hitler hated the Jews, that's it.
I already answered this – he was insane. I did this very succinctly. Perhaps you missed it?


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« Reply #236 on: April 15, 2013, 06:13:55 PM »

Hitler was a member of a Leftist party. And you say he hated leftists? The ends don't match.
According to whom? If anything, Nazis are always accused of being Exterme Right Wing.

Try again Michal.

You probably should read up on this. The Nazis started out as the "National Socialists", and were against industrialists -whom they blamed for the ills of Germany and the world.

Later Hitler, who was a cowardly opportunist saw that he would be able to rise to power with the backing of big money.

This caused a split in his party, with Ernst Rohm advocating the trational Nazi line.

Hitler had him liquidated (I'm sure you've got a justification for that too).




Mussolini also started out as a leftist.
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« Reply #237 on: April 15, 2013, 06:15:10 PM »

Hitler was a member of a Leftist party. And you say he hated leftists? The ends don't match.
According to whom? If anything, Nazis are always accused of being Exterme Right Wing.

Try again Michal.

According to himself. "National Socialist German Workers' Party". Get back to primary school until you start discussing history.
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« Reply #238 on: April 15, 2013, 06:16:46 PM »

Quote
Quote from: Charles Martel on April 05, 2013, 05:11:26 AM
I agree and post WWI Germany was being raped by "Internationalist" bankers and infiltrated by worldwide communists.

So yea, the victim began fighting back.

Unfortunately a lot of lower-level, average Jews got caught up in it just like a lot of ethnic Germans.

But you are a fool to believe that not a single Jew was complicit in what happened during the Third Reich.


They are ‘complicit’ and Germany was the victim, fighting back.
So where did I state that all Jews should've been murdered in Germany at that time?

I didn't but that is what you are implying.

Enough with the detraction and calumny.

Try to stay on point.




I've already covered this, but you've ignored it. It's another example of you trying all arguments at once. You don’t have ‘a point’. You have several mutually exclusive points.

You both argue that

a) the Germans were justified in reacting against Jews
and
b) that they didn't do anything

How did they justifiably (in your mind) react against the Jews?

I asked your cohort how many Jews he thinks they murdered (and he won’t answer)
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« Reply #239 on: April 15, 2013, 07:10:48 PM »

Quote
is Jewishness ended when he himself became an atheist; he even declared himself anti-Jewish (religion).

Jews say different.


 Who is a Jew?
A Jew is any person whose mother was a Jew or any person who has gone through the formal process of conversion to Judaism.

It is important to note that being a Jew has nothing to do with what you believe or what you do. A person born to non-Jewish parents who has not undergone the formal process of conversion but who believes everything that Orthodox Jews believe and observes every law and custom of Judaism is still a non-Jew, even in the eyes of the most liberal movements of Judaism, and a person born to a Jewish mother who is an atheist and never practices the Jewish religion is still a Jew, even in the eyes of the ultra-Orthodox. In this sense, Judaism is more like a nationality than like other religions, and being Jewish is like a citizenship.


http://www.jewfaq.org/whoisjew.htm
« Last Edit: April 15, 2013, 07:16:42 PM by Charles Martel » Logged

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« Reply #240 on: April 15, 2013, 07:16:16 PM »

Quote
That’s just part of your confused argument. You want to deny you’re following the racist stereo-type of the Nazis – and then you revert to a position that he’s always a Jew!

See above post.

Jews define just who is a Jew, not Nazis. not now, not then, not ever.

That is my point.

Jews say you're always a Jew if you're biologically born one from a Jewish mother, end of story.

It's their rules, not mine.

Now who's following the "racist-sterotype" classification of the Nazis?

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« Reply #241 on: April 15, 2013, 07:20:48 PM »

Quote
is Jewishness ended when he himself became an atheist; he even declared himself anti-Jewish (religion).

Jews say different.

Marx's mum was a Christian!

I'm not aware of any Jew who considers an atheist son of a Christian a Jew (religion). And I evidenced this.

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« Reply #242 on: April 15, 2013, 07:22:24 PM »

Quote
That’s just part of your confused argument. You want to deny you’re following the racist stereo-type of the Nazis – and then you revert to a position that he’s always a Jew!

See above post.

Jews define just who is a Jew, not Nazis. not now, not then, not ever.
That's clearly false. Nazis defined what made someone a Jew.

They even had someone as a Jew who only had one grand-parent who was a Jew

But if you keep confusing two things, and posting patent absurdities like "not Nazis, not now, not then, not ever" that's up to you
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« Reply #243 on: April 15, 2013, 07:23:16 PM »

So Charles Martel, what do you think that the Germans actually did, in reaction to the Jews?
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« Reply #244 on: April 15, 2013, 07:24:38 PM »

The pro-Nazis continue to argue all things at once; even one denying he's pro-Nazi

I asked him what evils the Nazis did (according to his view) and get no response for more than a day, now.
so if one denies that no where near 6 million jews were killed then he's pro nazi? are you serious? I am not only anti nazi, I am anti the group that funded him..they're the same group pushing this 6 million jews died myth
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« Reply #245 on: April 15, 2013, 07:30:15 PM »

Hitler was a member of a Leftist party. And you say he hated leftists? The ends don't match.
According to whom? If anything, Nazis are always accused of being Exterme Right Wing.

Try again Michal.

According to himself. "National Socialist German Workers' Party". Get back to primary school until you start discussing history.
Prove it. the Nazi's were Nationalists not commie "socialists", you're confusing the two., all their policies were reflective of the extreme right. The "socialists" part of their name was a misnomer, a common thing amongst political labels.

You can call the Nazi's a lot of things, but not Leftists or socialists.


Even that crazy socialist duck posting on here can attest to that.
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« Reply #246 on: April 15, 2013, 07:31:45 PM »

The pro-Nazis continue to argue all things at once; even one denying he's pro-Nazi

I asked him what evils the Nazis did (according to his view) and get no response for more than a day, now.
so if one denies that no where near 6 million jews were killed then he's pro nazi? are you serious? I am not only anti nazi, I am anti the group that funded him..they're the same group pushing this 6 million jews died myth

I've asked you several times how many do you think were killed. I'm still waiting for an answer

Let me know if you need more time, or a calculator
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« Reply #247 on: April 15, 2013, 07:35:26 PM »

Hitler was a member of a Leftist party. And you say he hated leftists? The ends don't match.
According to whom? If anything, Nazis are always accused of being Exterme Right Wing.

Try again Michal.

According to himself. "National Socialist German Workers' Party". Get back to primary school until you start discussing history.
Prove it. the Nazi's were Nationalists not commie "socialists", you're confusing the two., all their policies were reflective of the extreme right. The "socialists" part of their name was a misnomer, a common thing amongst political labels.

You can call the Nazi's a lot of things, but not Leftists or socialists.


Even that crazy socialist duck posting on here can attest to that.

It's one of the most basic mistakes you've made; evidencing a total lack of understanding on the subject

It’s why his party was called “National Socialist”

As opposed to communists who wished “Socialism” to be international
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« Reply #248 on: April 15, 2013, 07:41:12 PM »

Prove it. the Nazi's were Nationalists not commie "socialists", you're confusing the two., all their policies were reflective of the extreme right. The "socialists" part of their name was a misnomer, a common thing amongst political labels.

You can call the Nazi's a lot of things, but not Leftists or socialists.

(numbers got wrong)

1. We demand that the state be charged first with providing the opportunity for a livelihood and way of life for the citizens. If it is impossible to sustain the total population of the State, then the members of foreign nations (non-citizens) are to be expelled from the Reich.
2. All citizens must have equal rights and obligations.
3. The first obligation of every citizen must be to work both spiritually and physically. The activity of individuals is not to counteract the interests of the universality, but must have its result within the framework of the whole for the benefit of all.
Consensusy we demand:
4. Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of debt (interest)-slavery.
5. In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice in property and blood that each war demands of the people, personal enrichment through a war must be designated as a crimeagainst the people. Therefore we demand the total confiscation of all war profits.
6. We demand the nationalisation of all (previous) associated industries (trusts).
7. We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries.
8. We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare.
9. We demand the creation of a healthy middle class and its conservation, immediate communalization of the great warehouses and their being leased at low cost to small firms, the utmost consideration of all small firms in contracts with the State, county or municipality.
10. We demand a land reform suitable to our needs, provision of a law for the free expropriation of land for the purposes of public utility, abolition of taxes on land and prevention of allspeculation in land.
11. We demand struggle without consideration against those whose activity is injurious to the general interest. Common national criminals, usurers, profiteers and so forth are to bepunished with death, without consideration of confession or race.
12. The state is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our whole national education program, to enable every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education and subsequently introduction into leading positions. The plans of instruction of all educational institutions are to conform with the experiences of practical life. The comprehension of the concept of the State must be striven for by the school [Staatsbuergerkunde] as early as the beginning of understanding. We demand the education at the expense of the State of outstanding intellectually gifted children of poor parents without consideration of position or profession.
13. The State is to care for the elevating national health by protecting the mother and child, by outlawing child-labor, by the encouragement of physical fitness, by means of the legal establishment of a gymnastic and sport obligation, by the utmost support of all organizations concerned with the physical instruction of the young.
14. We demand abolition of the mercenary troops and formation of a national army.

You really have no clue what you are posting about. I had greater history knowledge when I was 6.
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« Reply #249 on: April 15, 2013, 07:43:34 PM »

Adolf Hitler:
We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are determined to destroy this system under all conditions.

cited here
http://chiefio.wordpress.com/2011/03/25/some-quotes-on-socialism-and-fascism/
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« Reply #250 on: April 15, 2013, 07:49:14 PM »

Prove it. the Nazi's were Nationalists not commie "socialists", you're confusing the two., all their policies were reflective of the extreme right. The "socialists" part of their name was a misnomer, a common thing amongst political labels.

You can call the Nazi's a lot of things, but not Leftists or socialists.

(numbers got wrong)

1. We demand that the state be charged first with providing the opportunity for a livelihood and way of life for the citizens. If it is impossible to sustain the total population of the State, then the members of foreign nations (non-citizens) are to be expelled from the Reich.
2. All citizens must have equal rights and obligations.
3. The first obligation of every citizen must be to work both spiritually and physically. The activity of individuals is not to counteract the interests of the universality, but must have its result within the framework of the whole for the benefit of all.
Consensusy we demand:
4. Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of debt (interest)-slavery.
5. In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice in property and blood that each war demands of the people, personal enrichment through a war must be designated as a crimeagainst the people. Therefore we demand the total confiscation of all war profits.
6. We demand the nationalisation of all (previous) associated industries (trusts).
7. We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries.
8. We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare.
9. We demand the creation of a healthy middle class and its conservation, immediate communalization of the great warehouses and their being leased at low cost to small firms, the utmost consideration of all small firms in contracts with the State, county or municipality.
10. We demand a land reform suitable to our needs, provision of a law for the free expropriation of land for the purposes of public utility, abolition of taxes on land and prevention of allspeculation in land.
11. We demand struggle without consideration against those whose activity is injurious to the general interest. Common national criminals, usurers, profiteers and so forth are to bepunished with death, without consideration of confession or race.
12. The state is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our whole national education program, to enable every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education and subsequently introduction into leading positions. The plans of instruction of all educational institutions are to conform with the experiences of practical life. The comprehension of the concept of the State must be striven for by the school [Staatsbuergerkunde] as early as the beginning of understanding. We demand the education at the expense of the State of outstanding intellectually gifted children of poor parents without consideration of position or profession.
13. The State is to care for the elevating national health by protecting the mother and child, by outlawing child-labor, by the encouragement of physical fitness, by means of the legal establishment of a gymnastic and sport obligation, by the utmost support of all organizations concerned with the physical instruction of the young.
14. We demand abolition of the mercenary troops and formation of a national army.

You really have no clue what you are posting about. I had greater history knowledge when I was 6.
Absolutely. I didn't learn it at that age, but certainly by 15

Looks like a basic understanding of Nazism is needed
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« Reply #251 on: April 15, 2013, 07:55:05 PM »


Even that crazy socialist duck posting on here can attest to that.

As I noted earlier:

Communism: Internationalist socialism

Nazism: Nationalist socialism

Nazis differed from communists in their ideology because they were 'nationalists' as well. Part of this nationalism was based on a definition of nation based on race. They believed in the Aryan race as being supreme.

They were 'socialist' because they identified Jews with big business, and they were anti-Jew and anti-big business

Initially they were very much anti-big business. However they were also, as nationalists against trade unions. They believed everyone should be regimented to the benefit of the state. Big business liked this anti-trade unionist bent and at meetings with Hitler and key supporters they bank-rolled the Nazis.

There was a schism in the Nazi party and old 'socialists' such as Rohm were murdered.

Whilst the state became regimented, industrialists were 'free' to make more money.

Aside from not understanding this basic point of history, you have, I believe, a monolithic view of Communism.

There is not one form of Communism, any more than there's one democratic system.

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« Reply #252 on: April 15, 2013, 07:59:06 PM »

Quote
You really have no clue what you are posting about.
I have a little bit, more than enough for this debate.

You simply can't label the Nazi's as "socialists" in the classic sense defined by their actions.

Myth: Hitler was a leftist.

Fact: Nearly all of Hitler's beliefs placed him on the far right.

Many conservatives accuse Hitler of being a leftist, on the grounds that his party was named "National Socialist." But socialism requires worker ownership and control of the means of production. In Nazi Germany, private capitalist individuals owned the means of production, and they in turn were frequently controlled by the Nazi party and state. True socialism does not advocate such economic dictatorship -- it can only be democratic. Hitler's other political beliefs place him almost always on the far right. He advocated racism over racial tolerance, eugenics over freedom of reproduction, merit over equality, competition over cooperation, power politics and militarism over pacifism, dictatorship over democracy, capitalism over Marxism, realism over idealism, nationalism over internationalism, exclusiveness over inclusiveness, common sense over theory or science, pragmatism over principle, and even held friendly relations with the Church, even though he was an atheist.



http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-hitler.htm


Quote
I had greater history knowledge when I was 6.
What was that like a little more than a decade ago?
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« Reply #253 on: April 15, 2013, 08:03:40 PM »

Quote
is Jewishness ended when he himself became an atheist; he even declared himself anti-Jewish (religion).

Jews say different.

Marx's mum was a Christian!

I'm not aware of any Jew who considers an atheist son of a Christian a Jew (religion). And I evidenced this.



Who cares what Marx was or wasn't. Joe Stalin was Orthodox by birth. So using similar "logic" all Orthodox must share some sort of causal connection with Stalin's crimes against humanity. Oh no, I probably awakened a denier of the Holodomor and other Soviet era atrocities to add even more surreal absurdity to this discussion.
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« Reply #254 on: April 15, 2013, 08:06:29 PM »

Communism as Marx saw it was where workers joined together (collectives) took over the means of production (companies, factories, etc.) and collectively worked together (having gained an understanding that they have mutual interests; class consciousness).


It was decided that nation-states and nationalism were used as tools by the leading classes to divide workers from each other, and that a worker in France (as an e.g.) had more in common with another worker in Germany than they did with French industrialists.

Their first meetings were called "Internationals" and their anthem is the "Internationale".

Lenin, having achieved revolution at home wished to spread this revolution to other nations, particularly neighbours Poland and Germany.

Stalin was more about acquiring and holding power in his own country. His form of communism was in fact decidedly nationalist too. He liquidated groups he considered a threat to his own leadership.

He got rid of worker’s decisions, but dressed this up as if that power still remained; through Commissars, and worker’s committee. It is still classed as communism because there was no really free capital.

However it can be argued that the ‘nation’ itself was the capitalist; owning all means of production which the worker had in effect been alienated from again.


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« Reply #255 on: April 15, 2013, 08:14:14 PM »

I have a little bit, more than enough for this debate.

You simply can't label the Nazi's as "socialists" in the classic sense defined by their actions.

You're confusing things again.

It was noted that the Nazis and Hitler STARTED OFF as leftists.

You then argue that they NEVRE WERE based on where they ended up, which is nonsensical

It's been shown by evidence, from quotes about what their policy was. I've stated what they did. Your reposte is to an appeal to incredulity, again!
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« Reply #256 on: April 15, 2013, 08:17:07 PM »

Who cares what Marx was or wasn't.
The point is some have cared! Pro-Nazi sympathisers wish to establish a link; a conspiracy between Judaism and Communism in order to justify the actions of the Nazis

My argument has been to show that Communism isn't inherently a Jewish construct (do a search of this thread; that's what someone said! )

Marx wasn't a Jew

Communism isn't Jewish


Joe Stalin was Orthodox by birth. So using similar "logic" all Orthodox must share some sort of causal connection with Stalin's crimes against humanity. Oh no, I probably awakened a denier of the Holodomor and other Soviet era atrocities to add even more surreal absurdity to this discussion.
You should probably read more posts to get a gist of the discussion
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« Reply #257 on: April 15, 2013, 08:36:25 PM »

The pro-Nazis continue to argue all things at once; even one denying he's pro-Nazi

I asked him what evils the Nazis did (according to his view) and get no response for more than a day, now.
so if one denies that no where near 6 million jews were killed then he's pro nazi? are you serious? I am not only anti nazi, I am anti the group that funded him..they're the same group pushing this 6 million jews died myth

I've asked you several times how many do you think were killed. I'm still waiting for an answer

Let me know if you need more time, or a calculator
read the book and do some digging, all the experts who did any serious research come up with a few hundred thousand, your source for coming up with 6 million was a good one, I had a good laugh
here's something to get you thinking
http://trutube.tv/video/1761/Six-MIllion-My-Ass
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« Reply #258 on: April 15, 2013, 09:12:35 PM »

To this discussion, I think the "True Torah Jews" help clarify many of the factors that led up to the event which has become commonly referred to as "The Holocaust".  The True Torah Jews explain how the Zionists collaborated with Hitler and spread anti-Semitism in an attempt to get Jews to depart from Germany and elsewhere to help them establish a State of Israel.  The Zionists worked with Hitler on the 1933 Transfer Agreement in an attempt to transfer the Jews from Germany to Palestine, an agreement that Hitler supported for a time.  In pursuit of establishing the State of Israel, Zionists supported the Nazis and also frustrated the attempts of the Jews of Germany to migrate to lands other than Palestine.  According to the True Torah Jews, the Zionist Jews (who they consider apostates) are "spiritually and physically responsible" for the Holocaust.  Of course, in saying this, they certainly do not believe that Hitler is blameless, and they also accept much of the "official story", including that 6 million Jews died and many of them in gas chambers (though they really don't go into any depth on these subjects).

Among the articles of the True Torah Jews, see:

The Role of Zionism in the Holocaust: http://www.truetorahjews.org/lieberman

Nazi Propaganda was Based on What Zionists Said:  http://www.truetorahjews.org/naziismzionism

Zionism and Anti-Semitism:  http://www.truetorahjews.org/antisemitism

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« Reply #259 on: April 15, 2013, 09:36:20 PM »

To this discussion, I think the "True Torah Jews" help clarify many of the factors that led up to the event which has become commonly referred to as "The Holocaust".  The True Torah Jews explain how the Zionists collaborated with Hitler and spread anti-Semitism in an attempt to get Jews to depart from Germany and elsewhere to help them establish a State of Israel.  The Zionists worked with Hitler on the 1933 Transfer Agreement in an attempt to transfer the Jews from Germany to Palestine, an agreement that Hitler supported for a time.  In pursuit of establishing the State of Israel, Zionists supported the Nazis and also frustrated the attempts of the Jews of Germany to migrate to lands other than Palestine.  According to the True Torah Jews, the Zionist Jews (who they consider apostates) are "spiritually and physically responsible" for the Holocaust.  Of course, in saying this, they certainly do not believe that Hitler is blameless, and they also accept much of the "official story", including that 6 million Jews died and many of them in gas chambers (though they really don't go into any depth on these subjects).

Among the articles of the True Torah Jews, see:

The Role of Zionism in the Holocaust: http://www.truetorahjews.org/lieberman

Nazi Propaganda was Based on What Zionists Said:  http://www.truetorahjews.org/naziismzionism

Zionism and Anti-Semitism:  http://www.truetorahjews.org/antisemitism



Aren't True Torah Jews a group of radicals who are against the state of Israel unless it's personally established by God?
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« Reply #260 on: April 15, 2013, 09:38:19 PM »

read the book and do some digging,
I've already pointed out massive mistakes in that book. You've not addressed that.

all the experts who did any serious research come up with a few hundred thousand, your source for coming up with 6 million was a good one, I had a good laugh
here's something to get you thinking

So you're still unwilling (?) to answer my question. Instead of answering you suggest I read a book I've already addressed and to go and research this for you.

 Huh
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« Reply #261 on: April 15, 2013, 09:54:38 PM »

To this discussion, I think the "True Torah Jews" help clarify many of the factors that led up to the event which has become commonly referred to as "The Holocaust".  The True Torah Jews explain how the Zionists collaborated with Hitler and spread anti-Semitism in an attempt to get Jews to depart from Germany and elsewhere to help them establish a State of Israel.  The Zionists worked with Hitler on the 1933 Transfer Agreement in an attempt to transfer the Jews from Germany to Palestine, an agreement that Hitler supported for a time.  In pursuit of establishing the State of Israel, Zionists supported the Nazis and also frustrated the attempts of the Jews of Germany to migrate to lands other than Palestine.  According to the True Torah Jews, the Zionist Jews (who they consider apostates) are "spiritually and physically responsible" for the Holocaust.  Of course, in saying this, they certainly do not believe that Hitler is blameless, and they also accept much of the "official story", including that 6 million Jews died and many of them in gas chambers (though they really don't go into any depth on these subjects).

Among the articles of the True Torah Jews, see:

The Role of Zionism in the Holocaust: http://www.truetorahjews.org/lieberman

Nazi Propaganda was Based on What Zionists Said:  http://www.truetorahjews.org/naziismzionism

Zionism and Anti-Semitism:  http://www.truetorahjews.org/antisemitism



Aren't True Torah Jews a group of radicals who are against the state of Israel unless it's personally established by God?

I would suggest you read about their views from their website that I linked above.  They are among many Jews who are against the State of Israel.  They are religious Jews who see the Zionist movement as largely a secular movement of mostly unbelieving Jews who care little to nothing about following the Torah.  They believe that the Jews were exiled by God and may not return until the messiah comes to liberate the Jews and return them to the Land.  Of course, we know that it is the Antichrist who they are anticipating. 

The True Torah Jews are just one end of the spectrum of a larger movement of Jews who oppose Zionism and the State of Israel.  See, for instance, this interview with a Holocaust survivor who equates the treatment of the Palestinians by Israel to the treatment of the Jews by the Nazis:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gsqj3HH4NVk

The case of Jews against Zionism:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnUzx2lDMog
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« Reply #262 on: April 15, 2013, 11:14:02 PM »

read the book and do some digging,
I've already pointed out massive mistakes in that book. You've not addressed that.

all the experts who did any serious research come up with a few hundred thousand, your source for coming up with 6 million was a good one, I had a good laugh
here's something to get you thinking

So you're still unwilling (?) to answer my question. Instead of answering you suggest I read a book I've already addressed and to go and research this for you.

 Huh
how am i unwilling to answer your question, I believe a few hundred thousand , are you ok?
and you haven't done any real research and haven't addressed anything, you don't know what you are talking about
 because you blindly believe 6 million jews died in the holocaust, my little video alone shows how ludicrous that is, you haven't responded to those questions, and you don't have to do any research for me as I already know about these fabrications you and others so easily eat up, do some research for yourself if you care about the truth and stop following mainstream media, do you even know about the illuminati or you believe that to  be a conspiracy theory?do you believe Osama Bin laden was responsible for the events of 9/11? because if you are gullible to believe 6 million jews died then you probably will believe anything the mainstream media tells you and you can't be helped
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« Reply #263 on: April 16, 2013, 12:56:29 AM »

I would suggest you read about their views from their website that I linked above. 

I would suggest their views are irrelevant, both per se, and to this discussion thread.
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« Reply #264 on: April 16, 2013, 12:59:05 AM »


how am i unwilling to answer your question, I believe a few hundred thousand , are you ok?
You were talking about what others believe. If you are saying you agree, then you've answered, after several days

Even here it's again a reference to some evidence somewhere else by someone else. What 'experts'? If they're the ones responsible for your book then they aren't experts on anything...

and you haven't done any real research and haven't addressed anything,

Your retort is simply a 'just-so' statement of denial. Let's pick one point - Zyklon B can't kill anyone. I addressed the fact it's an arsenic-based chemical.

I already addressed the issue of 6million, as well. It doesn't matter if estimates are at 5mil, and others at 6.2mil

And that's just the Jews, not the many non-Jews Germans systematically killed
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« Reply #265 on: April 16, 2013, 01:01:03 AM »

The True Torah Jews are just one end of the spectrum of a larger movement of Jews who oppose Zionism and the State of Israel.  See, for instance, this interview with a Holocaust survivor who equates the treatment of the Palestinians by Israel to the treatment of the Jews by the Nazis:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gsqj3HH4NVk

How is that a denial of Hitler's attempt at genoicide? If it isn't then it should be in a discussion thread about whether the state of Israel should exist.
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« Reply #266 on: April 16, 2013, 01:11:17 AM »

One of the lies used by Nazi apologists is their denial of 'gas chambers' based on a bait switch.

They claim that General Eisenhower never mentioned these in his memoirs.

Does that mean they dind't exist?

No. Eisenhower didn't personally visit a death camp. He visited concentration camps, where people were systematically brutalised, starved and, murdered. And he wrote about that!

He ordered Germans to be made to visit these camps.

He called his own memoirs a "Crusade in Europe".


He can be seen visiting them:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b6/Gen_Eisenhower_at_death_camp_report_crop.jpg
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« Reply #267 on: April 16, 2013, 02:02:01 AM »

erratum: I meant to say above 'extermination camp' - Eisenhower never visited an 'extermination camp'
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« Reply #268 on: April 16, 2013, 02:36:11 AM »

Quote
You really have no clue what you are posting about.
I have a little bit, more than enough for this debate.

You simply can't label the Nazi's as "socialists" in the classic sense defined by their actions.

Myth: Hitler was a leftist.

Fact: Nearly all of Hitler's beliefs placed him on the far right.

Many conservatives accuse Hitler of being a leftist, on the grounds that his party was named "National Socialist." But socialism requires worker ownership and control of the means of production. In Nazi Germany, private capitalist individuals owned the means of production, and they in turn were frequently controlled by the Nazi party and state. True socialism does not advocate such economic dictatorship -- it can only be democratic. Hitler's other political beliefs place him almost always on the far right. He advocated racism over racial tolerance, eugenics over freedom of reproduction, merit over equality, competition over cooperation, power politics and militarism over pacifism, dictatorship over democracy, capitalism over Marxism, realism over idealism, nationalism over internationalism, exclusiveness over inclusiveness, common sense over theory or science, pragmatism over principle, and even held friendly relations with the Church, even though he was an atheist.



http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-hitler.htm


Quote
I had greater history knowledge when I was 6.
What was that like a little more than a decade ago?

Have you ever read the original NSDAP program I quoted or was it to difficult for you to comprehend?

read the book and do some digging, all the experts who did any serious research come up with a few hundred thousand, your source for coming up with 6 million was a good one, I had a good laugh

I don't have to read books. I can ask my grandfather. There were several k of Jews in his village before the war. Only a handful survived it. Rest was killed by the Germans. He saw them being sent to Treblinka.
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« Reply #269 on: April 16, 2013, 04:03:28 AM »

Quote
You really have no clue what you are posting about.
I have a little bit, more than enough for this debate.

You simply can't label the Nazi's as "socialists" in the classic sense defined by their actions.

Myth: Hitler was a leftist.

Fact: Nearly all of Hitler's beliefs placed him on the far right.

Many conservatives accuse Hitler of being a leftist, on the grounds that his party was named "National Socialist." But socialism requires worker ownership and control of the means of production. In Nazi Germany, private capitalist individuals owned the means of production, and they in turn were frequently controlled by the Nazi party and state. True socialism does not advocate such economic dictatorship -- it can only be democratic. Hitler's other political beliefs place him almost always on the far right. He advocated racism over racial tolerance, eugenics over freedom of reproduction, merit over equality, competition over cooperation, power politics and militarism over pacifism, dictatorship over democracy, capitalism over Marxism, realism over idealism, nationalism over internationalism, exclusiveness over inclusiveness, common sense over theory or science, pragmatism over principle, and even held friendly relations with the Church, even though he was an atheist.



http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-hitler.htm


Quote
I had greater history knowledge when I was 6.
What was that like a little more than a decade ago?

Have you ever read the original NSDAP program I quoted or was it to difficult for you to comprehend?

read the book and do some digging, all the experts who did any serious research come up with a few hundred thousand, your source for coming up with 6 million was a good one, I had a good laugh

I don't have to read books. I can ask my grandfather. There were several k of Jews in his village before the war. Only a handful survived it. Rest was killed by the Germans. He saw them being sent to Treblinka.

And to add to the figure, we could try my wife's home town, which contained several thousand Jews before WW2, most of whom were sent to the camps. As of the mid-90s there were six. I know one man who survived Auschwitz and I know several people who risked their lives to hide Jews during the war. That's one town to add to your one village and we're already well into the thousands. Given the size of the Reich and the Jewish population in the countries conquered by it, the idea of a few hundred thousand seems entirely ludicrous. What happened to the rest? Were they abducted by aliens?

James
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