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Author Topic: Hitler's hate towards the Jews  (Read 9412 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: March 25, 2013, 08:22:46 PM »

What caused Hitler's hate towards the Jews than he wondered around to kill 5+ millions of them ?
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« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2013, 08:24:37 PM »

Evil.
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« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2013, 09:49:53 PM »

I heard he got jewed out of an art degree.
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« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2013, 09:54:57 PM »

What caused Hitler's hate towards the Jews than he wondered around to kill 5+ millions of them ?

Jews have, historically, been used as scapegoats for various problems: the black death, murders, diseases etc...

At this point in history, Germany had been forced to its knees by the financial crisis and the consequenses of the Treaty of Versailles. Often, the jews were among the people who managed to get through the crisis better than others. Combined with the age-old image of jews as greedy, evil, big-nosed liars, and you have a pretty good enemy.

Of course, the situation was often more complicated than than just the above, but this is the reasons, people most often give.
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« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2013, 10:19:04 PM »

Anti-Semitism was not exclusive to Hitler by any means, nor was the idea that Jews had to be exterminated; in fact, it was especially prevalent among Orthodox countries. In fact, Hitler was heavily influenced by the ideas of a Russian monarchist and post-Revolution emigre named Fyodr Vinberg, who believed that the Orthodox and Catholics should join forces to destroy the Jews of Europe. The Russian White Army during the Civil War was likewise rabidly anti-Semitic- one British journalist accompanying Denikin's army, John Hodgson, wrote in a report to the British government that he feared that if the Whites managed to defeat the Bolsheviks, there would be mass pogroms and Jewish exterminations across Russia. In fact, when he tried to refute the anti-Semitism of his White officer friends, they accused Hodgson himself of being Jewish and involved in a Jewish-Masonic conspiracy!

As mentioned by Ansgar, there are many reasons for anti-Semitism, including that Jews held unusually high socioeconomic positions in comparison to the average non-Jewish European. This dates back to the Middle Ages, when Christians were forbidden from participating in lending or "usury," and Jews were left with few career alternatives outside of banking. In the Russian Revolution, many leading Bolsheviks (such as Trotsky) were at least culturally Jewish, helping to explain the anti-Semitism of the White forces.
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« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2013, 10:25:31 PM »

Here's one theory:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzjqtR1ZP6s

On a more serious note, I think the cause is the nature of the Jewish people. They're a distinct religious and national group who live within the wider society, but by definition can never fully become part of it (at least not in the context of a nation state). When you add to that mix financial and political influence, you have a perfect scapegoat.

The Armenian people are in many ways quite similar. I forget the source, but when discussing the "Jewish problem", one of the options Hitler proposed was to "Armenianize" them, a reference to the genocide committed by the Ottomans in 1915. Of course, with the Jews you have the added bonus of deicide charges and the traditional anti-Judaism of Christianity has frequently been misappropriated by those wishing to use it an anti-Semitic propaganda tool.
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« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2013, 10:49:34 PM »

On a more serious note, I think the cause is the nature of the Jewish people. They're a distinct religious and national group who live within the wider society, but by definition can never fully become part of it (at least not in the context of a nation state). When you add to that mix financial and political influence, you have a perfect scapegoat.

The Armenian people are in many ways quite similar. I forget the source, but when discussing the "Jewish problem", one of the options Hitler proposed was to "Armenianize" them, a reference to the genocide committed by the Ottomans in 1915.

But of course, there were many religious/cultural groups living in relative social isolation in 19th and 20th century Europe. Jews held special distinction among these groups due to their relatively high levels of education and economic success in comparison to the societal norm. Some academics would also claim anti-Semitism was flamed by the shallow and ignorant perception of Jews holding sole responsibility for the crucifixion of Christ; I would say this maybe had greater influence in the pre-modern era but became negligible in the modern age of nationalism.
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« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2013, 12:47:43 AM »

Here's one theory:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzjqtR1ZP6s

On a more serious note, I think the cause is the nature of the Jewish people. They're a distinct religious and national group who live within the wider society, but by definition can never fully become part of it (at least not in the context of a nation state). When you add to that mix financial and political influence, you have a perfect scapegoat.

The Armenian people are in many ways quite similar. I forget the source, but when discussing the "Jewish problem", one of the options Hitler proposed was to "Armenianize" them, a reference to the genocide committed by the Ottomans in 1915. Of course, with the Jews you have the added bonus of deicide charges and the traditional anti-Judaism of Christianity has frequently been misappropriated by those wishing to use it an anti-Semitic propaganda tool.

Yes, the Young Turks sparked off a century of genocides, and Hitler did comment that the Armenians were annihilated and nobody even paid any attention, so why would anyone care about Jews.  Some Americans did protest on behalf of Armenians though; it was the first time Americans became internationally involved in a human rights campaign. 

Many German Jews were fully integrated into society.  I've heard rebbis talk about how it was a punishment for assimilating.   I think they are the only ones who can say that without causing a huge uproar.  When it first started, it was literally like the neighbor boys taking you to the outskirts of town and gunning your entire family and other neighbors down.  Then other people would move into their homes.  Just like that.   It was incomprehensible.


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« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2013, 12:48:00 AM »

Hitler also hated Slavs and probably would have hated Muslims too after he finished using them.  The shorter list would be, "Who did Hitler not hate?"  He was obviously insane, and in different times he likely wouldn't have been as politically successful. 

One well written and insightful book about Germany during that period is Defying Hitler by Sebastian Haffner. 
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« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2013, 04:50:06 AM »

What caused Hitler's hate towards the Jews than he wondered around to kill 5+ millions of them ?

Hitler wasn't a very nice guy.
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« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2013, 09:04:41 AM »

What caused Hitler's hate towards the Jews than he wondered around to kill 5+ millions of them ?

Hitler wasn't a very nice guy.

I'd like to nominate the above for understatement of the month year decade.
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« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2013, 05:20:35 PM »

He also hated homosexuals, Slavs, Roman Catholics and Blacks. And he most likely would have hated Muslims too once he was done using them in the Middle East, and probably Latin Americans if there were any in Europe. Ultimately, I think his hatred was more inspired by radical patriotism, since Europe has always had a fetish for nationalism. I think the racism was probably the product of his patriotism to demonize the enemy.
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« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2013, 05:26:28 PM »

He also hated homosexuals, Slavs, Roman Catholics and Blacks. And he most likely would have hated Muslims too once he was done using them in the Middle East, and probably Latin Americans if there were any in Europe. Ultimately, I think his hatred was more inspired by radical patriotism, since Europe has always had a fetish for nationalism. I think the racism was probably the product of his patriotism to demonize the enemy.

Yes but only anti-Semitism was fundamental to the rhetoric and platform of the Nazi Party. Hitler actively collaborated with both Catholics and "Slavs" (see the Nazi-Soviet Pact, or Russian Liberation Army), especially in the earlier years of his dictatorship.
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« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2013, 05:30:22 PM »

He also hated homosexuals, Slavs, Roman Catholics and Blacks. And he most likely would have hated Muslims too once he was done using them in the Middle East, and probably Latin Americans if there were any in Europe. Ultimately, I think his hatred was more inspired by radical patriotism, since Europe has always had a fetish for nationalism. I think the racism was probably the product of his patriotism to demonize the enemy.

Yes but only anti-Semitism was fundamental to the rhetoric and platform of the Nazi Party. Hitler actively collaborated with both Catholics and "Slavs" (see the Nazi-Soviet Pact, or Russian Liberation Army), especially in the earlier years of his dictatorship.

Adolf Hitler was a genius manipulator and lied for propoganda purposes. He hated Christianity as well, but used it to deceive people. My thoughts are that Hitler merely exploited Europe's already-existing anti-Semitic attitude for political purposes, and collaborated with Catholics and Slavs for political purposes. Same reason why he spoke about God and Christ in his speeches, even though he himself was an atheist and saw Christianity as the bastardization of Judaism needing to be eradicated.
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« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2013, 05:43:19 PM »

He also hated homosexuals, Slavs, Roman Catholics and Blacks. And he most likely would have hated Muslims too once he was done using them in the Middle East, and probably Latin Americans if there were any in Europe. Ultimately, I think his hatred was more inspired by radical patriotism, since Europe has always had a fetish for nationalism. I think the racism was probably the product of his patriotism to demonize the enemy.

Yes but only anti-Semitism was fundamental to the rhetoric and platform of the Nazi Party. Hitler actively collaborated with both Catholics and "Slavs" (see the Nazi-Soviet Pact, or Russian Liberation Army), especially in the earlier years of his dictatorship.

Adolf Hitler was a genius manipulator and lied for propoganda purposes. He hated Christianity as well, but used it to deceive people. My thoughts are that Hitler merely exploited Europe's already-existing anti-Semitic attitude for political purposes, and collaborated with Catholics and Slavs for political purposes. Same reason why he spoke about God and Christ in his speeches, even though he himself was an atheist and saw Christianity as the bastardization of Judaism needing to be eradicated.

Hitler not only spoke about God and Christ, he tried to recreate himself as the new Messiah, often emphasizing his own "spiritual struggle" and "sacrifices" in the earlier years of his life and rise to power. Nazism, Fascism, and other totalitarian ideologies were primarily concerned with the creation of a spiritual nationalism that would ultimately replace Christianity by gradually transforming and nationalizing its symbols. Mussolini did the same thing, and he was not nearly so uncultured or brutish as Hitler. To say that "Hitler merely exploited Europe's already-existing anti-Semitic attitude for political purposes" is not incorrect but simplistic; as I posted earlier, Hitler was also heavily influenced by the ideas of the Russian monarchist emigre Fyodor Vinberg and others like him, who believed that Jews and Bolsheviks were united in a conspiracy to control the world economy and political structures. See the originally Russian 1903 publication The Protocols of the Elders of Zion for more insight into European anti-Semitism.
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« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2013, 05:34:00 PM »

I'm sure hate went both ways....... Wink

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« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2013, 08:00:03 PM »

There was a country called Judea in the early 1930s?
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« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2013, 09:12:58 PM »

He certainly did not have much opposition from most other countries who found nothing wrong with his views about Jews, There are many older people who I have heard speaking about the attitudes on that issue in the U.S . at that time and they were understanding and sympathetic to Hitler's stance.

 Most of the world was willing to go along with mistreatment and dislocations of their Jews, even the League of Nations had given carte blanche to Europe , each country was free to deal with minorities as it deemed necessary, without much concern for civil rights .

Only after the death camps were discovered did the world react with  disgust and horror, But the Nazis did not start out to Kill them all, That was called the Final Solution and was not started until 1942 .
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« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2013, 10:34:24 PM »

Ethnic cleansing for a twisted philosophy of Aryanism. (You have to read Mein Kampf for the details) ...
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« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2013, 12:24:43 AM »

At least one poster here thinks Hitler was a good guy and that his genocide of the Jews was a good thing.
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« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2013, 11:37:49 AM »

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At the end of the First World War, Germany was essentially tricked [see Paul Johnson A History of the Modern World (1983) p24 and H Nicholson Peacemaking 1919 (1933) pp13-16] into paying massive reparations to France and other economic competitors and former belligerent countries in terms of the so-called Treaty of Versailles, thanks to the liberal American President Woodrow Wilson. Germany was declared to be solely responsible for the war, in spite of the fact that 'Germany did not plot a European war, did not want one, and made genuine efforts, though too belated, to avert one.' (Professor Sydney B Fay The Origins of the World War (vol. 2 p 552)).
 
As a result of these massive enforced financial reparations, by 1923 the situation in Germany became desperate and inflation on an astronomical scale became the only way out for the government. Printing presses were engaged to print money around the clock. In 1921 the exchange rate was 75 marks to the dollar. By 1924 this had become about 5 trillion marks to the dollar. This virtually destroyed the German middle class (Koestler The God that Failed p 28), reducing any bank savings to a virtual zero.
 
According to Sir Arthur Bryant the British historian (Unfinished Victory (1940 pp. 136-144):
 
'It was the Jews with their international affiliations and their hereditary flair for finance who were best able to seize such opportunities.. They did so with such effect that, even in November 1938, after five years of anti-Semitic legislation and persecution, they still owned, according to the Times correspondent in Berlin, something like a third of the real property in the Reich. Most of it came into their hands during the inflation.. But to those who had lost their all, this bewildering transfer seemed a monstrous injustice. After prolonged sufferings they had now been deprived of their last possessions. They saw them pass into the hands of strangers, many of whom had not shared their sacrifices and who cared little or nothing for their national standards and traditions.. The Jews obtained a wonderful ascendancy in politics, business and the learned professions (in spite of constituting) less than one percent of the population.. The banks, including the Reichsbank and the big private banks, were practically controlled by them. So were the publishing trade, the cinema, the theatres and a large part of the press - all the normal means, in fact, by which public opinion in a civilized country is formed.. The largest newspaper combine in the country with a daily circulation of four millions was a Jewish monopoly.. Every year it became harder and harder for a gentile to gain or keep a foothold in any privileged occupation.. At this time it was not the 'Aryans' who exercised racial discrimination. It was a discrimination that operated without violence. It was exercised by a minority against a majority. There was no persecution, only elimination.. It was the contrast between the wealth enjoyed - and lavishly displayed - by aliens of cosmopolitan tastes, and the poverty and misery of native Germans, that has made anti-Semitism so dangerous and ugly a force in the new Europe. Beggars on horseback are seldom popular, least of all with those whom they have just thrown out of the saddle.'
http://rense.com/general29/why.htm 



Early Adolf's Hitler first letter after the treaty of Versailles :

Quote
(September 16, 1919)
Dear Herr Gemlich,

If the threat with which Jewry faces our people has given rise to undeniable hostility on the part of a large section of our people, the cause of this hostility must be sought in the clear recognition that Jewry as such is deliberately or unwittingly having a pernicious effect on our nation, but mostly in personal intercourse, in the poor impression the Jew makes as an individual. As a result, antisemitism far too readily assumes a purely emotional character. But this is not the correct response. Antisemitism as a political movement may not and cannot be molded by emotional factors but only by recognition of the facts. Now the facts are these:

To begin with, the Jews are unquestionably a race, not a religious community. The Jew himself never describes himself as a Jewish German, a Jewish Pole or a Jewish American, but always as a German, Polish or American Jew. Jews have never adopted more than the language of the foreign nations in whose midst they live. A German who is forced to make use of the French language in France, Italian in Italy, Chinese in China does not thereby become a Frenchman, Italian, or Chinaman, nor can we call a Jew who happens to live amongst us and who is therefore forced to use the German language, a German. Neither does the Mosaic faith, however great its importance for the preservation of that race, be the sole criterion for deciding who is a Jew and who is not. There is hardly a race in the world whose members all belong to a single religion.

Through inbreeding for thousands of years, often in very small circles, the Jew has been able to preserve his race and his racial characteristics much more successfully than most of the numerous people among whom he has lived. As a result there lives amongst us a non-German, alien race, unwilling and indeed unable to shed its racial characteristics, its particular feelings, thoughts and ambitions and nevertheless enjoying the same political rights as we ourselves do. And since even the Jew's feelings are limited to the purely material realm, his thoughts and ambitions are bound to be so even more strongly. Their dance around the golden calf becomes a ruthless struggle for all the possessions that we feel deep down are not the highest and not the only ones worth striving for on this earth.

The value of an individual is no longer determined by his character or by the significance of his achievements for the community, but solely by the size of his fortune, his wealth.

The greatness of a nation is no longer measured by the sum of its moral and spiritual resources, but only by the wealth of its material possessions.

All this results in that mental attitude and that quest for money and the power to protect it which allow the Jew to become so unscrupulous in his choice of means, so merciless in their use of his own ends. In autocratic states he cringes before the 'majesty' of the princes and misuses their favors to become a leech on their people.

In democracies he vies for the favor of the masses, cringes before 'the majesty of the people', but only recognizes the majesty of money.

He saps the prince's character with Byzantine flattery; national pride and the strength of the nation with ridicule and shameless seduction to vice. His method of battle is that public opinion which is never expressed in the press but which is nonetheless manages and falsified by it. His power is the power of the money, which multiplies in his hands effortlessly and endlessly through interest, and with which he imposes a yoke upon the nation that is the more pernicious in that its glitter disguises its ultimately tragic consequences. Everything that makes the people strive for higher goals, be it religion, socialism, or democracy, is to the Jew merely a means to an end, the way to satisfy his greed and thirst for power.

The results of his works is racial tuberculosis of the nation.

And this has the following consequences: purely emotional antisemitism finds its final expression in the form of pogroms. Rational antisemitism, by contrast, must lead to a systematic and legal struggle against, and eradication of, the privileges the Jews enjoy over the other foreigners living among us (Alien Laws). Its final objective, however, must be the total removal of all Jews from our midst. Both objectives can only be achieved by a government of national strength and not one of national impotence.

The German Republic owes its birth not the united national will of our people, but to the underhand exploitation of a series of circumstances that, taken together, express themselves in a deep, universal dissatisfaction. These circumstances, however, arose independently of the political structure and are at work even today. Indeed, more so than ever before. Hence, a large part of our people recognizes that changing the structure of the state cannot in itself improve our position, but that this can only be achieved by the rebirth of the nation's moral and spiritual forces.

And this rebirth cannot be prepared by the leadership of an irresponsibly majority influence by party dogmas or by the internationalist catch-phrases and slogans of an irresponsible press, but only by determined acts on the part of nationally minded leadership with an inner sense of responsibility.

This very fact serves to deprive the Republic of the inner support of the spiritual forces any nation needs very badly. Hence the present leaders of the nation are forced to seek support from those who alone have benefited and continue to benefit from changing the form of the German state, and who for that very reason become the driving force of the Revolution -- the Jews. Disregarding the Jewish threat, which is undoubtedly recognized even by today's leaders (as various statement from prominent personalities reveal), these men are forced to accept Jewish favors to their private advantage and to repay these favors. And the repayment does not merely involve satisfying every possible Jewish demand, but above all preventing the struggle of the betrayed people against its defrauders, by sabotaging the antisemitic movement.

Yours truly,
Adolf Hitler

"The letter was written by Hitler in 1919, six years before the publication of “Mein Kampf” (1925), Hitler's autobiography and manifesto. It details what he calls the “Jewish threat,” and argues for Germans to hinder Jews' ability to gain power and influence." - http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/10/museum-of-tolerance-will-display-hitler-letter-for-first-time.html

Quote
Hitler made the dramatic intervention to protect Ernst Hess, his old company commander from the Flanders trenches of the First World War, who had risen to be a judge in post-war Germany.
In a letter from August 27, 1941 to the Dusseldorf Gestapo, Heinrich Himmler, one of the architects of the Final Solution, instructed the secret police to grant Hess "the relief and the protection as per the Fuhrer's wishes".http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-two/9379575/Adolf-Hitler-protected-his-Jewish-former-commanding-officer.html

Also Eduard Bloch, the Jewish doctor of Hitler's familly received help from Hitler.

Here is what Eduard Bloch says about Hitler :
" Adolf wore a dark suit and a loosely knotted cravat. Then, as now, a shock of hair tumbled over his forehead. His eyes were on the floor while his sisters were talking. Then came his turn. He stepped forward and took my hand. Looking into my eyes, he said: "I shall be grateful to you forever." That was all. Then he bowed. I wonder if today he recalls this scene. I am quite sure that he does, for in a sparing sense Adolf Hitler has kept to his promise of gratitude. Favors were. granted me which I feel sure were accorded no other Jew in all Germany or Austria."


Bloch went on to tell the OSS that

in 1937, a number of local Nazis attended the party conference at Nuremberg. After the conference Hitler invited several of these people to come with him to his mountain villa at Berchtesgaden. The Führer asked for news of Linz. How was the town ? Were people there supporting him? He asked for news of me. Was I still alive, still practicing? Then he made a statement irritating to local Nazis. "Dr. Bloch," said Hitler, "is an Edeljude - a noble Jew. If all Jews were like him, there would be no Jewish question."


http://open.salon.com/blog/lost_in_berlin/2009/08/27/hitlers_favorite_jew_the_strange_case_of_dr_eduard_bloch
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« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2013, 04:29:07 PM »

There was a country called Judea in the early 1930s?
Jews have always considered themselves a "nation" regardless of what country they're dwelling in  at that time, especially before the state of Israel.
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« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2013, 04:32:45 PM »

At least one poster here thinks Hitler was a good guy and that his genocide of the Jews was a good thing.
What poster was that?

And for all things holy, just who declared that the genocide of anyone is a good thing?

Besides, Jesus said only God is "good".

Tell me, do you believe that Jesus was a "good" guy?

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« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2013, 04:38:46 PM »

Ethnic cleansing for a twisted philosophy of Aryanism. (You have to read Mein Kampf for the details) ...

Let's see how long until some Cradle Christopher European tries to justify it as being "understandable"  Wink
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« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2013, 04:43:03 PM »

Ethnic cleansing for a twisted philosophy of Aryanism. (You have to read Mein Kampf for the details) ...

Let's see how long until some Cradle Christopher European tries to justify it as being "understandable"  Wink

A what??
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« Reply #25 on: April 04, 2013, 05:11:32 PM »

At least one poster here thinks Hitler was a good guy and that his genocide of the Jews was a good thing.
What poster was that?

And for all things holy, just who declared that the genocide of anyone is a good thing?

Besides, Jesus said only God is "good".

Tell me, do you believe that Jesus was a "good" guy?



by "here" I meant OC.net, not this particular thread.
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« Reply #26 on: April 04, 2013, 05:15:57 PM »

There was a country called Judea in the early 1930s?
Jews have always considered themselves a "nation" regardless of what country they're dwelling in  at that time, especially before the state of Israel.

And how is this related to biro's question?
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« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2013, 05:17:35 PM »

There was a country called Judea in the early 1930s?
Jews have always considered themselves a "nation" regardless of what country they're dwelling in  at that time, especially before the state of Israel.

And how is this related to biro's question?

He's trying to say that the Jews are equally responsible for the hatred because apparently protesting injustice makes you as bad as the oppressor or some other weirdo White Man's Burden theory.
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« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2013, 05:29:18 PM »

There was a country called Judea in the early 1930s?
Jews have always considered themselves a "nation" regardless of what country they're dwelling in  at that time, especially before the state of Israel.

And how is this related to biro's question?
How is not?
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« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2013, 05:30:55 PM »

There was a country called Judea in the early 1930s?
Jews have always considered themselves a "nation" regardless of what country they're dwelling in  at that time, especially before the state of Israel.

And how is this related to biro's question?

He's trying to say that the Jews are equally responsible for the hatred because apparently protesting injustice makes you as bad as the oppressor or some other weirdo White Man's Burden theory.
I just said there's plenty of room  of blame to go around on both sides.

You're the one hung up on race buddy.
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« Reply #30 on: April 04, 2013, 05:43:28 PM »

There was a country called Judea in the early 1930s?
Jews have always considered themselves a "nation" regardless of what country they're dwelling in  at that time, especially before the state of Israel.

And how is this related to biro's question?
How is not?

She is asking whether Jews had some coutry in 1930s (or, what is that "Judea" thing mentioned in that article you shared). You answer that Jews considered themselves to be a nationality.

Apples to oranges.
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« Reply #31 on: April 04, 2013, 05:51:04 PM »

There was a country called Judea in the early 1930s?
Jews have always considered themselves a "nation" regardless of what country they're dwelling in  at that time, especially before the state of Israel.

And how is this related to biro's question?
How is not?

She is asking whether Jews had some coutry in 1930s (or, what is that "Judea" thing mentioned in that article you shared). You answer that Jews considered themselves to be a nationality.

Apples to oranges.

Actually, as I understood it( and I may be completely wrong) he seemed to refer to the fact that the term "nation" has been used to describe the jewish people during history. Thus, the term "Judea" might be a reference to jews all over the world.
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« Reply #32 on: April 04, 2013, 07:29:40 PM »

There was a country called Judea in the early 1930s?
Jews have always considered themselves a "nation" regardless of what country they're dwelling in  at that time, especially before the state of Israel.

And how is this related to biro's question?
How is not?

She is asking whether Jews had some coutry in 1930s (or, what is that "Judea" thing mentioned in that article you shared). You answer that Jews considered themselves to be a nationality.

Apples to oranges.
Where do you think "nationalities" come from?

Nations...hello?

Jews were forever searching for a homeland ever since the diaspora but make no mistake, they were still a nation, one people with a common bond and goal. And for Jews, a nation is a much more meaning ful and deeper and spiritual significance than just a "country".

In a way, you're right, comparing Judea to just a "country" is comparing apples to oranges.

What the Jews have go way beyond physical borders.
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« Reply #33 on: April 04, 2013, 07:51:50 PM »

...there's plenty of room  of blame to go around on both sides.

That's like telling a rape victim that there is "plenty of room" for the blame to on "both sides."
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« Reply #34 on: April 04, 2013, 08:19:07 PM »

Where do you think "nationalities" come from?

Nations...hello?

Jews were forever searching for a homeland ever since the diaspora but make no mistake, they were still a nation, one people with a common bond and goal. And for Jews, a nation is a much more meaning ful and deeper and spiritual significance than just a "country".

In a way, you're right, comparing Judea to just a "country" is comparing apples to oranges.

What the Jews have go way beyond physical borders.

Zionism was not the only one political ideology within the Jews. Many of them, mostly religious ones, do not need or approve Jewish country. Some even reject it for religious reasons. What is more, in the inter-war period Palestine wasn't the only one place considered to become an area for Jewish state. Madagascar was too, for example. There are some nationalities that neither have their state not live on one site - Gypsies being prime example. National states are XIXth century innovation.

So what is that "Judea" thing mentioned in the text shared by you?
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« Reply #35 on: April 04, 2013, 08:30:49 PM »

I believe in no man , I trust only God, and as such there is no one who is innocent, None.

Remember Jesus said that if you get angry at someone you have committed murder.

Matthew 5
Murder

21“You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder,a and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment.

So we are all guilty of breaking the least of the commandments and so we have broken them all in God's view.

Therefore looking at Hitler as worse than me is wrong even though it is easy, and probably moreso because it is so easy and accepted, this to me is man's worst sin, is acting innocent, and acting as if were above those who were seduced by Satan in Germany.This is what Satan uses aginst us when he wants to tempt us.

Thie truth is  that many have killed in the name of God many more than what Hitler did, Check how many died in Japan in a few hours.
Or how many Blacks were killed maimed and beaten for hundreds of years.
Ask the indians about ethnic cleansing.
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« Reply #36 on: April 04, 2013, 10:44:37 PM »

There was a country called Judea in the early 1930s?
Jews have always considered themselves a "nation" regardless of what country they're dwelling in  at that time, especially before the state of Israel.

And how is this related to biro's question?
How is not?

She is asking whether Jews had some coutry in 1930s (or, what is that "Judea" thing mentioned in that article you shared). You answer that Jews considered themselves to be a nationality.

Apples to oranges.

Actually, as I understood it( and I may be completely wrong) he seemed to refer to the fact that the term "nation" has been used to describe the jewish people during history. Thus, the term "Judea" might be a reference to jews all over the world.

Yes. Doh!
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« Reply #37 on: April 04, 2013, 10:49:30 PM »

I believe in no man , I trust only God, and as such there is no one who is innocent, None.

Remember Jesus said that if you get angry at someone you have committed murder.

Matthew 5
Murder

21“You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder,a and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment.

So we are all guilty of breaking the least of the commandments and so we have broken them all in God's view.

Therefore looking at Hitler as worse than me is wrong even though it is easy, and probably moreso because it is so easy and accepted, this to me is man's worst sin, is acting innocent, and acting as if were above those who were seduced by Satan in Germany.This is what Satan uses aginst us when he wants to tempt us.

Thie truth is  that many have killed in the name of God many more than what Hitler did, Check how many died in Japan in a few hours.
Or how many Blacks were killed maimed and beaten for hundreds of years.
Ask the indians about ethnic cleansing.

Good point.  I have no problem with remembering the Jewish Holocaust and trying to prevent it from ever happening again.  The problem that I have with all of the Holocaust hype is that is all about the Jews, and not the Evil.  As has been pointed out, there have been many genocides just in the last two centuries.  Why do we not also remember them?  Is it because the Armenians, Serbs, Native Americans, Chinese, Ukrainians, Gypsis and the like don't own all of media outlets?  The root cause of the Jewish Holocaust is not antisemitism.  It is not the Nazi Party.  It is not Adolf Hitler.  It is the same root cause of all genocides - Evil.  The afore mentioned are just tools that were used to execute that evil.  Address that and all men can shed their fear of genocide, not just the Jews.  

The is no such thing and innocence.  Only degrees of guilt.
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« Reply #38 on: April 04, 2013, 11:33:50 PM »

What caused Hitler's hate towards the Jews than he wondered around to kill 5+ millions of them ?

What evidence do you have that Hitler intended to kill millions of Jews?  If you understand what led to the pogroms in Russia (which were not supported or sponsored by the State), the role of Jews in the Bolshevik Revolution, and the role of Jews in Germany at the time, it is not difficult to understand why Hitler would want them out of Germany.  From what I have seen, contrary to a great deal of misinformation that has been adopted as the supposedly "official story", Hitler did not seek to exterminate but rather to deport the Jews.  The camps were not set up as extermination camps but rather as work camps.  There is no evidence of human gas chambers, though gas was used in special closets to kill lice which was a problem in the camps.  When the US and the Allies destroyed the transportation infrastructure, they could not get adequate food and medical assistance to those in the camps, and so the plan to deport was not successful and many died in the camps of starvation and disease. 

Unfortunately, there are many fables about the holocaust, and to even suggest this will land you in jail in many countries.  While the death of so many Jews is certainly to be mourned, as should the death of any, a great deal of propaganda around the holocaust was promoted in order to further the Zionist goal of obtaining the State of Israel.  This propaganda campaign has been so successful that the holocaust has been held up as though it were the only mass death worthy of the world's everlasting remembrance, sympathy, and commemoration.  The success of this campaign has been so great, in fact, that one fears even criticizing the State of Israel or any wrongdoing committed by Jews individually or collectively, in that doing so swiftly results in the critic being labeled with the idiotic term "anti-Semite" and equated with the "monster Hitler". 

One can criticize the Russians collectively and call into question the facts surrounding the death of over 20 million people under Stalin.  One can criticize the Chinese collectively and call into question the facts surrounding the death of tens of millions under Mao Ze-Dong.  However, to criticize the Jews collectively and call into question the facts surrounding the death of so many Jews under Hitler is everywhere considered "hateful", and in many places is actually illegal.

The following book and review provide some information on the anti-Jewish pogroms in Russia that set a helpful backdrop for later developments in Russia and Germany.
http://www.amazon.com/Troubled-Waters-Origins-Anti-Jewish-European/dp/082298525X/
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« Reply #39 on: April 05, 2013, 05:11:26 AM »

...there's plenty of room  of blame to go around on both sides.

That's like telling a rape victim that there is "plenty of room" for the blame to on "both sides."
I agree and post WWI Germany was being raped by "Internationalist" bankers and infiltrated by worldwide communists.

So yea, the victim began fighting back.

Unfortunately a lot of lower-level, average Jews got caught up in it just like a lot of ethnic Germans.

But you are a fool to believe that not a single Jew was complicit in what happened during the Third Reich.
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« Reply #40 on: April 05, 2013, 05:15:08 AM »

I once read in a history magazine that the nazis forced a jew to become a spy in Palestine. Can't remember his name though.
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« Reply #41 on: April 05, 2013, 05:35:50 AM »

Where do you think "nationalities" come from?

Nations...hello?

Jews were forever searching for a homeland ever since the diaspora but make no mistake, they were still a nation, one people with a common bond and goal. And for Jews, a nation is a much more meaning ful and deeper and spiritual significance than just a "country".

In a way, you're right, comparing Judea to just a "country" is comparing apples to oranges.

What the Jews have go way beyond physical borders.

Zionism was not the only one political ideology within the Jews. Many of them, mostly religious ones, do not need or approve Jewish country. Some even reject it for religious reasons. What is more, in the inter-war period Palestine wasn't the only one place considered to become an area for Jewish state. Madagascar was too, for example. There are some nationalities that neither have their state not live on one site - Gypsies being prime example. National states are XIXth century innovation.
So what is that "Judea" thing mentioned in the text shared by you?
Nation-states go as far back as the ancient Greeks and even further really when you consider parts of Asia and the ME.

Regardless of what  a few religious Jews railed against, the majority of them yearned for a physical homeland and took steps to make this happen, but the fact of the matter is, is that Hitler and the Nazi regime wanted them out of Germany, they were just being facetious about the Madagascar (which is totally unacceptable to Jews) thing, what they were really saying is that they didn't care where they went, just go anywhere except Germany. The Zionists knew quite well that in order for them to go any where, including Palestine, they were going to have to collaborate and have the indegenous peoples thrown off their land and this is exactly what happened. whether this was right or wrong is for another discussion but the Jews knew they were in for a literal fight to establish what they always wanted. the nation-state.

Judea is the tribal term refering to worldwide Jewry, being a Jew is stil a tribal thing like many sects from the ME, tribal concepts are much more powerful and enduring, even the Muslims are broken up amongst tribal connections and loyalties than nations or countries.

Nations, kingdoms, empires come and go but the tribe always remains intact.
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« Reply #42 on: April 05, 2013, 05:38:19 AM »

I once read in a history magazine that the nazis forced a jew to become a spy in Palestine. Can't remember his name though.
You can now replace "nazis" with Israel and Arab for "jew" and it would be more believable today.
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« Reply #43 on: April 05, 2013, 05:53:18 AM »

I found him. His name was Paul Fackenheim.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Ernst_Fackenheim
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« Reply #44 on: April 05, 2013, 01:40:39 PM »

What evidence do you have that Hitler intended to kill millions of Jews?  If you understand what led to the pogroms in Russia (which were not supported or sponsored by the State), the role of Jews in the Bolshevik Revolution, and the role of Jews in Germany at the time, it is not difficult to understand why Hitler would want them out of Germany.  From what I have seen, contrary to a great deal of misinformation that has been adopted as the supposedly "official story", Hitler did not seek to exterminate but rather to deport the Jews.  The camps were not set up as extermination camps but rather as work camps.  There is no evidence of human gas chambers, though gas was used in special closets to kill lice which was a problem in the camps.  When the US and the Allies destroyed the transportation infrastructure, they could not get adequate food and medical assistance to those in the camps, and so the plan to deport was not successful and many died in the camps of starvation and disease. 

Trash.

Nation-states go as far back as the ancient Greeks and even further really when you consider parts of Asia and the ME.

Regardless of what  a few religious Jews railed against, the majority of them yearned for a physical homeland and took steps to make this happen, but the fact of the matter is, is that Hitler and the Nazi regime wanted them out of Germany, they were just being facetious about the Madagascar (which is totally unacceptable to Jews) thing, what they were really saying is that they didn't care where they went, just go anywhere except Germany.

Some facts you will be surprised to get to know.

a) There were no national states in Ancient Greece. Greeks had dozens of independent states who fought each other all the time.

b) The idea of Jews moving to Madagascar appeared in the late XIXth century and was not invented by the Nazis.

c) Not all Jews were Zionists who supported the idea of Jewish state. And even among the Zionists there were at least 3 different opinions where to create it: Palestine, Uganda, Madagascar.

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Judea is the tribal term refering to worldwide Jewry,

Used by whom? Since when? How popularly?
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