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Author Topic: Pope Issues Misson Statement for Papacy [Evangelii Gaudium]  (Read 1104 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: November 26, 2013, 12:32:22 PM »

The document, Evangelii Gaudium, (The Joy of the Gospel), is the second major teaching document issued by Francis but is the first actually written by him since the encyclical "The Light of Faith," issued in July, was penned almost entirely by Pope Benedict XVI before he resigned.
....
"I prefer a church which is bruised, hurting and dirty because it has been out on the streets, rather than a church which is unhealthy from being confined and from clinging to its own security," he wrote. "I do not want a church concerned with being at the center and then ends up by being caught up in a web of obsessions and procedures."
....
He said [priests'] greatest concern must be the poor and marginalized, since they are victims of an unjust, global economic system that prizes profit over people. He said the poor need the tender, merciful love that the church can provide.

While again ruling out women's ordination, Francis called for greater role for women in making decisions in the church and said the faithful ought not to think that just because priests preside over Mass that they are more important than the people who make up the church itself.
....
Francis cited Vatican II documents calling for a more decentralized church authority and said he too must rethink the papacy to achieve the goals of spreading the faith. He noted that Pope John Paul II had asked for proposals to rethink the way the primacy of the pope is exercised, a delicate and potentially revolutionary issue that hasn't yet been resolved.
....
"Excessive centralization, rather than proving helpful, complicates the church's life and her missionary outreach," he said.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2013, 12:33:07 PM by Jetavan » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2013, 12:35:55 PM »

Interesting.

Here's a link to the full text, to those who are interested:

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/francesco/apost_exhortations/documents/papa-francesco_esortazione-ap_20131124_evangelii-gaudium_en.html

Relevant passage on Orthodox relations:

Quote
246. Given the seriousness of the counter-witness of division among Christians, particularly in Asia and Africa, the search for paths to unity becomes all the more urgent. Missionaries on those continents often mention the criticisms, complaints and ridicule to which the scandal of divided Christians gives rise. If we concentrate on the convictions we share, and if we keep in mind the principle of the hierarchy of truths, we will be able to progress decidedly towards common expressions of proclamation, service and witness. The immense numbers of people who have not received the Gospel of Jesus Christ cannot leave us indifferent. Consequently, commitment to a unity which helps them to accept Jesus Christ can no longer be a matter of mere diplomacy or forced compliance, but rather an indispensable path to evangelization. Signs of division between Christians in countries ravaged by violence add further causes of conflict on the part of those who should instead be a leaven of peace. How many important things unite us! If we really believe in the abundantly free working of the Holy Spirit, we can learn so much from one another! It is not just about being better informed about others, but rather about reaping what the Spirit has sown in them, which is also meant to be a gift for us. To give but one example, in the dialogue with our Orthodox brothers and sisters, we Catholics have the opportunity to learn more about the meaning of episcopal collegiality and their experience of synodality. Through an exchange of gifts, the Spirit can lead us ever more fully into truth and goodness.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2013, 12:37:57 PM by lovesupreme » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2013, 07:37:27 PM »

He must be doing something right if his own people are burning him in effigy
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« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2013, 07:55:53 PM »

This statement is interesting. Which edition of the Quran is he reading?

Quote
253.  ... Faced with disconcerting episodes of violent fundamentalism, our respect for true followers of Islam should lead us to avoid hateful generalisations, for authentic Islam and the proper reading of the Koran are opposed to every form of violence.
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« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2013, 07:57:13 PM »

He must be doing something right if his own people are burning him in effigy

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All we can do is pray for them.
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« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2013, 12:59:25 PM »

Here's an interesting very short summation/interpretation of Pope Francis' exhortation:
http://www.newsmax.com/BillDonohue/Pope-Francis-Church-Catholic/2013/11/27/id/538999


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« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2013, 01:00:57 PM »

I'm glad all those that ought be offended are. Axios.
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« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2013, 01:04:20 PM »

This statement is interesting. Which edition of the Quran is he reading?

Quote
253.  ... Faced with disconcerting episodes of violent fundamentalism, our respect for true followers of Islam should lead us to avoid hateful generalisations, for authentic Islam and the proper reading of the Koran are opposed to every form of violence.

The same one that moderate Muslims fitting his description read.
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« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2013, 01:11:26 PM »

This is going to be a fun thread.
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« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2013, 01:13:59 PM »

This is going to be a fun thread.
offended people are fun
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« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2013, 01:17:26 PM »

This is going to be a fun thread.

Aren't all threads in this sub-forum fun?
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« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2013, 01:26:48 PM »

This is going to be a fun thread.

Aren't all threads in this sub-forum fun?

Occasionally some threads seem like normal people are discussing normally about normal things.

And then there are 99% of other threads.
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« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2013, 01:50:47 PM »

This is going to be a fun thread.
offended people are fun
you usually are.
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« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2013, 11:33:36 PM »

This is going to be a fun thread.
offended people are fun
you usually are.

I try not to put too much into what any Pope declares. I figure his proclamations are mostly for his own flock.  The RCC is being torn in many ways today and the Pope is trying to mend this breach.  Im on the sidelines watching, not that if matters so much to me.
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« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2013, 11:40:33 PM »

This statement is interesting. Which edition of the Quran is he reading?

Quote
253.  ... Faced with disconcerting episodes of violent fundamentalism, our respect for true followers of Islam should lead us to avoid hateful generalisations, for authentic Islam and the proper reading of the Koran are opposed to every form of violence.

Not the one that says Allah casts terror into the hearts of the disbelievers. Of course, Pope Francis in Evangelii Gaudium says Muslims worship the same god as Jews and Christians; quoting Vatican II.

"But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Mohammedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind."

Yeah, the Abraham that "said to their people, 'Indeed, we are disassociated from you and from whatever you worship other than Allah. We have denied you, and there has appeared between us and you animosity and hatred forever until you believe in Allah alone.'" (Qur'an 60:4)

The Pope must be uninformed about al-Wala wal Baraa.

Yeah, 'disbelievers are they that say God is one of three' (5:73) and 'Do not take Jews and Christians as your friends and protectors' (5:51) sounds like 'love your enemies' 'love thy neighbor' to me.
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« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2013, 12:53:23 AM »

Ever read the Scriptures?
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« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2013, 04:17:15 PM »

Evangelii Gaudium was just the beginning:

Quote
ROME  Pope Francis told a group of Dutch bishops this week that the Vatican must continue reforms undertaken by the Catholic church in the 1960s and ‘70s, according to one of the participants in the meeting.

Bishop Jan Hendricks, who attended the meeting Monday, later recounted that the pope said implementation of the 1962-65 Second Vatican Council is only half complete.

“We have been implementing the council only half-way,” Hendriks recalled from the pope’s words. “Half of the work has still to be done.”
....
In mentioning the reforms of the Second Vatican Council, Hendriks said the pope cited specifically Lumen Gentium, the council’s dogmatic constitution on the church.

“His first thought was of the church,” Hendriks said. “That means he thinks the reform of the church is only half-way done, that is clear.”

Lumen Gentium is the text that speaks about collegiality of the bishops in the Church, as well as the priesthood of the laity.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 04:28:52 PM by Jetavan » Logged

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« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2013, 04:19:36 PM »

Yay! More Gregorian chant and Latin!

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« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2013, 04:51:44 PM »

Yay! More Gregorian chant and Latin!

 Wink
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« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2013, 02:02:27 PM »

Yay! More Gregorian chant and Latin!


A step in the right direction. Smiley
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« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2013, 06:03:29 PM »

Quote
Relations with Judaism

247. We hold the Jewish people in special regard because their covenant with God has never been revoked, for “the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable” (Rom 11:29). The Church, which shares with Jews an important part of the sacred Scriptures, looks upon the people of the covenant and their faith as one of the sacred roots of her own Christian identity (cf. Rom 11:16-18). As Christians, we cannot consider Judaism as a foreign religion; nor do we include the Jews among those called to turn from idols and to serve the true God (cf. 1 Thes 1:9). With them, we believe in the one God who acts in history, and with them we accept his revealed word.

248. Dialogue and friendship with the children of Israel are part of the life of Jesus’ disciples. The friendship which has grown between us makes us bitterly and sincerely regret the terrible persecutions which they have endured, and continue to endure, especially those that have involved Christians.

249. God continues to work among the people of the Old Covenant and to bring forth treasures of wisdom which flow from their encounter with his word. For this reason, the Church also is enriched when she receives the values of Judaism. While it is true that certain Christian beliefs are unacceptable to Judaism, and that the Church cannot refrain from proclaiming Jesus as Lord and Messiah, there exists as well a rich complementarity which allows us to read the texts of the Hebrew Scriptures together and to help one another to mine the riches of God’s word. We can also share many ethical convictions and a common concern for justice and the development of peoples.

Is Pope Francis suggesting a form of dual covenant theology here? I've never heard anyone other than dispensationalists suggest that the Jews are still in an active covenant with God ("their covenant with God has never been revoked") outside of Israel, the Church.
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« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2013, 06:18:30 PM »

Quote
Relations with Judaism

247. We hold the Jewish people in special regard because their covenant with God has never been revoked, for “the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable” (Rom 11:29). The Church, which shares with Jews an important part of the sacred Scriptures, looks upon the people of the covenant and their faith as one of the sacred roots of her own Christian identity (cf. Rom 11:16-18). As Christians, we cannot consider Judaism as a foreign religion; nor do we include the Jews among those called to turn from idols and to serve the true God (cf. 1 Thes 1:9). With them, we believe in the one God who acts in history, and with them we accept his revealed word.

248. Dialogue and friendship with the children of Israel are part of the life of Jesus’ disciples. The friendship which has grown between us makes us bitterly and sincerely regret the terrible persecutions which they have endured, and continue to endure, especially those that have involved Christians.

249. God continues to work among the people of the Old Covenant and to bring forth treasures of wisdom which flow from their encounter with his word. For this reason, the Church also is enriched when she receives the values of Judaism. While it is true that certain Christian beliefs are unacceptable to Judaism, and that the Church cannot refrain from proclaiming Jesus as Lord and Messiah, there exists as well a rich complementarity which allows us to read the texts of the Hebrew Scriptures together and to help one another to mine the riches of God’s word. We can also share many ethical convictions and a common concern for justice and the development of peoples.

Is Pope Francis suggesting a form of dual covenant theology here? I've never heard anyone other than dispensationalists suggest that the Jews are still in an active covenant with God ("their covenant with God has never been revoked") outside of Israel, the Church.

I watch the Daystar network and when they aren't selling prosperity Gospel nonsense they have a few people who come from my people: Apocalyptic Guessers.

Guess what is one of the signs that this Pope is the False Prophet? Some fatima prophecy about a heretical Pope. What heresies will he teach and is teaching if you believe this Pope to be the foresawn one?

Stuff these Guessers themselves believe.

It's a Jack Chick Tract turned into a Moebius Strip.
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« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2013, 06:23:32 PM »

I'm more interested in his "de-centralizing" comments and "learning from our Orthodox brothers".  Is he trying to say that both Orthodox and Catholics believe in the same ecclesiology, but that the Catholics are not practicing it properly?
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« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2013, 06:30:35 PM »

I'm more interested in his "de-centralizing" comments and "learning from our Orthodox brothers".  Is he trying to say that both Orthodox and Catholics believe in the same ecclesiology, but that the Catholics are not practicing it properly?

This seems to be a popular strain of thought lately, largely grounded in Catholic history. It goes along with the idea that the 17th-19th centuries saw a massive papal-centralization of the Latin Church that didn't exist prior in response to the rise of modern nation states, and folks are now reconsidering whether it's still (or ever was) a good thing or not. I don't know if they'd say that we do have the same ecclesiology in general, but I'm sure some would that have a lower view of the Pope.
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« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2013, 06:58:51 PM »

I'm more interested in his "de-centralizing" comments and "learning from our Orthodox brothers".  Is he trying to say that both Orthodox and Catholics believe in the same ecclesiology, but that the Catholics are not practicing it properly?

This seems to be a popular strain of thought lately, largely grounded in Catholic history. It goes along with the idea that the 17th-19th centuries saw a massive papal-centralization of the Latin Church that didn't exist prior in response to the rise of modern nation states, and folks are now reconsidering whether it's still (or ever was) a good thing or not. I don't know if they'd say that we do have the same ecclesiology in general, but I'm sure some would that have a lower view of the Pope.

I don't think we have the same ecclesiology, but I do think that some decentralization would be a good thing. We need not be papal absolutists to be faithful Catholics.
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« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2013, 12:31:01 PM »

Quote
Cardinal Raymond Burke...an American who still serves as the head of the Vatican's highest court, also said in an EWTN interview he does not think Francis' recent apostolic exhortation Evangelii Gaudium ("The Joy of the Gospel") can be considered official teaching of the church.
....
In the interview Thursday, Burke also responds to a question from Arroyo about Francis' remarks in the exhortation criticizing some forms of capitalism.

Burke calls the exhortation a "distinct kind of document" and says "I haven't quite figured out in my mind exactly ... how to describe it."

"I would not think that, I don’t think it was intended to be part of papal magisterium," Burke states. "At least that’s my impression of it."
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« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2013, 12:35:59 PM »

Quote
Cardinal Raymond Burke...an American who still serves as the head of the Vatican's highest court, also said in an EWTN interview he does not think Francis' recent apostolic exhortation Evangelii Gaudium ("The Joy of the Gospel") can be considered official teaching of the church.
....
In the interview Thursday, Burke also responds to a question from Arroyo about Francis' remarks in the exhortation criticizing some forms of capitalism.

Burke calls the exhortation a "distinct kind of document" and says "I haven't quite figured out in my mind exactly ... how to describe it."

"I would not think that, I don’t think it was intended to be part of papal magisterium," Burke states. "At least that’s my impression of it."
yet another example of how "ex cathedra" is Vaticanese for "tea leaves."
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« Reply #27 on: December 16, 2013, 04:41:25 PM »

Quote
Cardinal Raymond Burke...an American who still serves as the head of the Vatican's highest court, also said in an EWTN interview he does not think Francis' recent apostolic exhortation Evangelii Gaudium ("The Joy of the Gospel") can be considered official teaching of the church.
....
In the interview Thursday, Burke also responds to a question from Arroyo about Francis' remarks in the exhortation criticizing some forms of capitalism.

Burke calls the exhortation a "distinct kind of document" and says "I haven't quite figured out in my mind exactly ... how to describe it."

"I would not think that, I don’t think it was intended to be part of papal magisterium," Burke states. "At least that’s my impression of it."
yet another example of how "ex cathedra" is Vaticanese for "tea leaves."

Cardinal Burke sounds an awful lot like the late American Supreme Court Justice, Potter Stewart:   " I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description ["hard-core pornography"]; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and ..... this.... is not that. ( Concurring opinion in Jacobellis v. Ohio 378 U.S. 184 (1964))

Nearly one hundred and forty years after Vatican I and 'Pastor Aeternus' and fifty years after the Jacobellis case, neither the Roman Church nor the Supreme Court have cleared up much of anything in either matter.  Wink
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« Reply #28 on: December 16, 2013, 05:19:28 PM »

Here's an interesting very short summation/interpretation of Pope Francis' exhortation:
http://www.newsmax.com/BillDonohue/Pope-Francis-Church-Catholic/2013/11/27/id/538999




I think Bill Donohue is correct in his conclusion that "Pope Francis is neither liberal nor conservative. He's simply Catholic, and a towering champion of its many causes."

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« Reply #29 on: December 16, 2013, 09:35:12 PM »

I'm more interested in his "de-centralizing" comments and "learning from our Orthodox brothers".  Is he trying to say that both Orthodox and Catholics believe in the same ecclesiology, but that the Catholics are not practicing it properly?
Mayhaps. Re-organizing the curia might be the first step in de-centralization, but forces in the curia of course will resist. To them, Pope Francis says, "Resistance is futile. You will be re-organized." On the other hand....

Quote
But in an interview a few days earlier, Burke — who remains head of the Vatican equivalent of the Supreme Court — also publicly raised doubts about Francis’ plans to make wholesale changes in a papal bureaucracy in keeping with the pontiff’s vision of a more open, pastoral church.

“The service of the Roman Curia is part of the very nature of the Church, and so that has to be respected,” Burke told EWTN, a U.S.-based Catholic cable network that spotlights conservative views.

“I can’t imagine that somehow the Roman Curia is going to take on a completely different figure. It just doesn’t make sense,” Burke said. The interview was broadcast Thursday as the centerpiece of a program that highlighted concerns about the direction of the church since Francis was elected in March.

Francis’ own top collaborators, namely a “kitchen cabinet” of eight cardinals he tapped to help him change the Vatican’s byzantine and often scandal-ridden ways, have said that the old curial system “is over,” as one put it, and will be replaced by “something different.”

But Burke told EWTN that it was “not altogether clear what the results of the reform will be” and lamented what he described as “a kind of unpredictability about life in Rome in these days.”
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If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
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