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Dionysii
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« Reply #45 on: April 03, 2013, 03:44:26 PM »

'Theosophy Unveiled'
By Archimandrite Haralambos Vasilopoulos

http://www.scribd.com/doc/114425898/Archimandrite-Haralambos-Vasilopoulos-Theosophy-Unveiled
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« Reply #46 on: April 03, 2013, 03:46:15 PM »

to assist in the evolutionary process
Do you mean progress, or evolution?
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« Reply #47 on: April 03, 2013, 04:37:16 PM »

Truly though, Atlantis is pretty well documented (and evidenced thanks to modern technology, even if scientists are unwilling or unable to recognize it yet).

But the Minoans only existed for a thousand years or so, and weren't a proro-race of any sort.
With all due respect, Atlantis has nothing to do with Crete. The final portion to sink (Poseidonis) did so in 9,564 B.C. and it was located beyond the pillars of Hercules.

to assist in the evolutionary process
Do you mean progress, or evolution?
Both, they are truly one in the same.
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« Reply #48 on: April 03, 2013, 04:44:51 PM »

'Theosophy Unveiled'
By Archimandrite Haralambos Vasilopoulos

http://www.scribd.com/doc/114425898/Archimandrite-Haralambos-Vasilopoulos-Theosophy-Unveiled
Dionysii, are you are interested in discussing this in detail? I will admit that it was pretty painful to make it through the first few pages (which is all I have read at this point) given the frequency and intensity of the Archimandrite's lies and misinformation. I will post a critique later tonight.
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« Reply #49 on: April 03, 2013, 04:55:27 PM »

Islamic dynasties had ruled India for the better part of a thousand years before the British, and Hinduism (or a modern form of it) would not rule India today unless the west had intervened.
This last thought recalls an interesting and obscure 1975 movie starring Christopher Plummer (of Sound of Music) as Rudyard Kipling.  It also stars Sean Connery (i.e. James Bond during his dry spell) and Michael Caine as two nineteenth century British masons who adventure on their on into Afghanistan and actually conquer it militarily, and Sean Connery is subsequently crowned king by a Buddhist sect who mistakenly recognizes him as Alexander the Great's successor.  The movie ends with their recognition as frauds by all the natives, and Caine's return to Kipling (Plummer) in Delhi three years later to tell him the story of thei rise and downfall including his own crucifixion and release (after a day) with holes in his hands to prove it.  Sean Connery's fate was even worse since he was decapitated, and Caine carried his head and leaves it with Kipling at the closing scene.  Fairly gruesome but fitting ending to an all time classic.  

The story seems loosely based on Rudyard Kipling's classic novel 'Kim' - a novel which Rene Guenon wrote is a factual history disguised as a novel.  

Not quite. The movie 'The Man Who Would Be King' is based on a Rudyard Kipling poem of the same name.  It really has nothing to do with 'Kim,' other than that it's in the same part of the world--Kipling was from Lahore--and there were Masons in it (Kim's father had been one).

I have not Guenon's book you mentioned, although I have read him and generally concur with your assessment.
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« Reply #50 on: April 03, 2013, 05:16:11 PM »

Truly though, Atlantis is pretty well documented ...

I believe that the Atlantis mentioned in Plato's book is a genuine historical island west of the Pillars of Hercules (i.e. the Atlas mountains of Morocco and Gibraltar).  I long ago became convinced that the flood spoken of was simply the flood of Noah.  I have a book which argues that it s identical with South America, but I have yet read it.  

In that connection, 'They Came Before Columbus' by Professor Ivan van Sertima is a classic from the early 1970's reprinted over 20 times that gives a mountain of circumstantial evidence that South America was initially peopled (in pre-Christian times) primarily by Africans who crossed the Atlantic in boats.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IywJ1DGuecY

However, Sertima's main contention is that West African Islamic empires established permanent settlements in the americas beginning in the 1300's well before Columbus.  Professor van Sertima is black, and his thesis has been ridiculed by scientists from the white community in spite its considerable evidence.  The attitude of mainstream scientists of the white community has not prevented the book's underground popularity.  

Professor Fuat Sezgin
Perhaps the world's recognized expert on medieval Islamic sciences is the Turkish Professor Fuat Sezgin because of his 13-volume 'Geschichte des Arabischen Schrifttums' an authoritative encyclopedia on Islamic science.  He has also published a journal of Arab Islamic sciences for several decades and has founded Museums of Islamic Science in Germany and Constantinople that include hundreds of medieval Islamic scientific intruments.  He graduiated with a Ph.D. in Ankara circa 1960 but was forced to look for work in Germany after the intolerance of liberal minded professors generated by right-wing Grey Wolves founder Alpaslan Turkes who took over the Turkish government in that year.  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuat_Sezgin

The reason I mention Professor Sezgin's credentials is that he actually concurs with Professor Ivan van Sertima's view about Islamic settlements in the "americas" from the 1300's onwards.  Pr. Sezgin asserts that Islamic geographers developed the goal of reaching the end of the Occidental Ocean since at least the tenth century A.D.

The Pre-Columbian Discovery of the American Continent by Muslim Seafarers'
By Fuat Sezgin
http://www.laits.utexas.edu/gma/mappamundi/docs/precolumbamerica.pdf

  
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« Reply #51 on: April 03, 2013, 05:26:45 PM »


The final portion to sink (Poseidonis) did so in 9,564 B.C. and it was located beyond the pillars of Hercules.


Everyone knows this.  Nothing esoteric to see here, folks. 

But claims like this and the asexual progenitors are a good tactic for keeping out the masses.  And I'm sure Io_Cl has been trained by the masters to endure such ridicule from the uninitiated.

I have no trouble believing, however, that the Orthodox critique mentioned above is flawed or lacking (no offense to Archim. Harambos).  Luckily, I don't think the Church has to worry too much about the encroachment of big-T Theosophy. 
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« Reply #52 on: April 03, 2013, 05:41:26 PM »

'Theosophy Unveiled'
By Archimandrite Haralambos Vasilopoulos

http://www.scribd.com/doc/114425898/Archimandrite-Haralambos-Vasilopoulos-Theosophy-Unveiled
Dionysii, are you are interested in discussing this in detail? I will admit that it was pretty painful to make it through the first few pages (which is all I have read at this point) given the frequency and intensity of the Archimandrite's lies and misinformation. I will post a critique later tonight.

No pain intended.  Although I confess that I have not yet read this book, I have read enough books from a similar perspecive the kind of book that it is).  Considering the author of that book and especilly considering the fact that he has a critical attitude towards Blavatsky, it is not surprising that you would not be well disposed towards the book.

Moving beyond recognition of the fact that we likely have differing views of Blavatsky, I would be interested in reading your critique - not so much to change my mind or yours as to learn as you obviously know a few things about this subject and, as they say - iron sharpens iron.  

---------------------------------------------------------------

I want to mention another book which falls into this category of describing a master conspiracy.
Although I have to laugh to even mention the title, I am thinking of 'Bloodlines of the Illuminati' by Fritz Springmeier.
I want to make not so much an analysis of this particular book as its author's attitude.
The main value of the book is its organization into chapters about the principle financial powers in various parts of the world such as the Li's in China and adjoining countries, et cetera.  So much is actually good information.

However, it is more disappointing when he makes assertions about things of which he is patently uninformed.

Among many other things, he takes it as a given that Stalin was secretly jewish, but he offers no evidence.  
The same possibility crossed my mind, and I later discovered that the identity of Stalin's biological father was indeed not Bessarion, but Springmeier was likely quite ignorant of the details of that which discovered in a much more specialized book about Stalin by Roman Brackman (who did not make the claim that Stalin was jewish even though the information he uncovered leaves that possibility).

Springmeier has a vehemently anti-Turkish prejudice which affects his analysis of Turkish history for the worse.  He nonchalantly asserted that the secularization of Turkey by Kemal Ataturk was prepared by the Sufi brotherhoods.  The truth is that Ataturk outlawed and persecuted the Sufi orders similar to the way he did the Orthodox Christians.  Of all Islam, they are characteristically peacefull and have inherited many of their traditions from the Eastern Orthodox Church, but Spring meier makes laughable statements about things of which he knows nothing.

In this light, I hope the book which I linked does not take the liberties which Springmeier occasionally took, but I await your critique.  
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« Reply #53 on: April 03, 2013, 05:49:18 PM »

The final portion to sink (Poseidonis) did so in 9,564 B.C. ...

Everyone knows this.
I respectfully beg to differ. 

"The Byzantine Creation Era, also known as the "Creation Era of Constantinople" and the "Era of the World," was the Calendar officially used by the Eastern Orthodox Church from AD 691 to 1728 in the Ecumenical Patriarchate, by the Byzantine Empire from AD 988 to 1453, and in Russia from AD 988 to 1700."

"Derived from the Septuagint version of the Bible, it placed the date of creation at 5,509 years before the Incarnation, and was characterized by a certain tendency which had already been a tradition amongst Hebrews and Jews to number the years from the foundation of the world (Latin: Annus Mundi / Ab Origine Mundi (AM)).  Its year one, the date of creation, was September 1, 5509 BC to August 31, 5508 BC."

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Byzantine_Creation_Era
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« Reply #54 on: April 03, 2013, 05:52:10 PM »

What I've learned from this thread:

Dionysii is an interesting cat.
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« Reply #55 on: April 03, 2013, 06:09:47 PM »

The final portion to sink (Poseidonis) did so in 9,564 B.C. ...

Everyone knows this.

I respectfully beg to differ. 


Sorry, I was kidding about knowing the year of the sinking of "Poseidonis."
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« Reply #56 on: April 03, 2013, 06:15:29 PM »

The final portion to sink (Poseidonis) did so in 9,564 B.C. ...

Everyone knows this.

I respectfully beg to differ. 


Sorry, I was kidding about knowing the year of the sinking of "Poseidonis."

Telling you braugh, it'sa tough crowd here.

I got a laugh, but I wanted to wait for a besserwisser to make the point of the seriouz around here.
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« Reply #57 on: April 03, 2013, 07:07:13 PM »

'The Pre-Columbian Discovery of the American Continent by Muslim Seafarers'
By Fuat Sezgin
http://www.laits.utexas.edu/gma/mappamundi/docs/precolumbamerica.pdf

Concerning the famous and uncannily accurate chart of South America drawn by Ottoman Admiral Piri Reis,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piri_Reis_map
Professor Sezgin quotes an articel by Paul Kahle which perhaps forms the common view of european historians:  "According to Kahle, Pīrī Reīs supposedly based his map on a model of Portuguese provenance. Let us therefore compare the Pīrī Reīs map with the earliest surviving Portuguese maps up to 1502."

He shows that the Portuguese maps are "substantially less developed both in terms of content and the area covered."  After proving that the famous Ottoman map had far too many details which were lacking in any european charts or maps, he concludes that Piri Reis's map drew its knowledge not from any Portuguese map but rather from a pre-Columbian Islamic cartographical tradition which had already mapped the eastern coast of South America and the West Indies to a degree of exactitude which was unknown in the history of European cartography prior to the 18th century."

Perhaps initially conceived to refute the popularity generated by the 400th anniversary of Columbus in 1892, Leo Weiner wrote a book over a hundred years ago entitled:  
'The African Discovery of America'
By Leo Weiner
http://archive.org/details/africadiscoveryo02wienrich

Professor Ivan Sertima on West African Setlements in America Priot to Columbus  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1ZeK4ecHKU

The Red Duchess of Spain
Utilizing medieval records to which she had access, the 21st Duchess of Medina Sidonia in Spain (near Gibralter) known as the Red Duchess for her left political views, wrote two books about the the Islamic system of trans-Atlantic navigation which preceeded Columbus and which the europeans destroyed.  

"Her anti-Francoist activities brought about her incarceration in the prison of Alcalá de Henares during the 1960s. It was from this time that she became popularly known as the "Red Duchess." She established and, until her death, was an active president of the Fundación Casa Medina Sidonia that manages the Archivo de la Casa de Medina Sidonia, the major part of the patrimony of the House of Medina Sidonia, and she continued her work as an historian and author."

"During her extensive research in the archives she discovered documents which convinced her that America might have been discovered a long time before Columbus by Arab-andalusian or Moroccan sailors trading with ports in Brazil, Guayana and Venezuela and she published her views in No fuimos nosotros (It wasn't us) and África versus América."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luisa_Isabel_%C3%81lvarez_de_Toledo,_21st_Duchess_of_Medina_Sidonia
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« Reply #58 on: April 03, 2013, 07:18:55 PM »

Both, they are truly one in the same.
No. Evolution does not have a goal. Progress has a goal.

Something may evolve to become simpler in order to adapt to an environment. Something is not "more" or "less" evolved, only more or less adapted to a particular environment.
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« Reply #59 on: April 03, 2013, 07:20:25 PM »

With all due respect, Atlantis has nothing to do with Crete. The final portion to sink (Poseidonis) did so in 9,564 B.C. and it was located beyond the pillars of Hercules.
With all due respect, all the historical evidence points to the Minoans as the Atlantians.

The Egyptian word for "atlantian" is even the same as the word for "cretan".
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« Reply #60 on: April 03, 2013, 07:41:14 PM »

The movie 'The Man Who Would Be King' is based on a Rudyard Kipling poem of the same name.
Yes, you are correct.

I have not Guenon's book you mentioned, although I have read him and generally concur with your assessment.
Yes, 'The Man Who Would Be King" is pure fiction - albeit a decent adventure story. 

At least as far as Guenon was concerned, there was nothing fictional about Rudyard Kipling's 'Kim' which was a factual history published under the guise of a novel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_(novel)
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« Reply #61 on: April 03, 2013, 10:28:11 PM »


Telling you braugh, it'sa tough crowd here.

I got a laugh, but I wanted to wait for a besserwisser to make the point of the seriouz around here.

Ain't that for real.  And this thread, of all places.
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« Reply #62 on: April 03, 2013, 10:30:08 PM »

Truly though, Atlantis is pretty well documented ...

I believe that the Atlantis mentioned in Plato's book is a genuine historical island west of the Pillars of Hercules (i.e. the Atlas mountains of Morocco and Gibraltar).  I long ago became convinced that the flood spoken of was simply the flood of Noah.
On this issue, I think we have some form of agreement. I believe the Noah account is, along with many other stories, a mythic reckoning of Atlantis. Blavatsky asserts that Atlantis, before its sinking, was engulfed in black magic and other forms of depravity.

Now, for Theosophy Unveiled :

I skipped over the Archimandrite's comments about the Luciferian-Illuminati-Mason conspiracy because I think it really detracts from the publication. The responses below are more or less my main points of contention with at least the first quarter (though if you are interested, I can finish the rest later this week).

Quote from: Archimandrite Haralambos Vasilopoulos
She had no friends!
While her childhood was certainly more bookish than most, this statement is without source and truth. Blavatsky was known to play with the servant's children quite frequently and maintained a wonderful relationship with her sister throughout her entire life.

Quote from: Archimandrite Haralambos Vasilopoulos
the family was also related to the known Russian author, Helena Fadeyeva (pen-name "Zeneida R-va")
Not a correction on my part, but it is worth pointing out that Helena Fadeyeva is HPB's mother.

Quote from: Archimandrite Haralambos Vasilopoulos
Frictions started with her family and parents
Again, no source provided. Most allegations about "family friction" come from Marion Meade's biography on Blavatsky, Madame Blavatsky: The Woman Behind the Myth. Meade suggestion of "tension" was rooted entirely in her own imagination. When Blavatsky's letters were published yeas later, Meade's thesis was discounted. The letters actually showed the existence of a rather positive and loving relationship between HPB and her family. HPB's sister's writings only further bolster this idea.

Quote from: Archimandrite Haralambos Vasilopoulos
Shortly after her wedding with Blavatsky, she abandoned him and disappeared. She was very eccentric and had a great inclination towards occultism, spiritualism, and magic.
It should be pointed out here that her "abandoning" of Governor Blavatsky only took place after months of escape attempts. She was, in short, held against her will.

Quote from: Archimandrite Haralambos Vasilopoulos
She became acquainted with Colonel Olcott there. He was a medium and occupied himself with spiritualism
While Colonel Olcott was most certainly involved (at least initially) in spiritualism, this is the first time I have ever heard him called a medium. Are there any references or proof for this?

Quote from: Archimandrite Haralambos Vasilopoulos
The Theosophical Society made tremendous progress with abundant money coming in from an unknown source.
"Abundant money" and "Theosophical Society" are two words I would never have put together in the same sentence. Blavatsky and her Society survived quite meagerly.

Quote from: Archimandrite Haralambos Vasilopoulos
Shortly after, Blavatsky would publish the Theosophical periodical "Lucifer in London.
Not to be terribly "nitpicky" but Blavatsky did not begin publishing Lucifer until after leaving India (1887), nearly ten years after her New York depature.

Quote from: Archimandrite Haralambos Vasilopoulos
Blavatsky and Pike collectively decided to create a female Masonic Lodge comprised of the wives, sisters and daughters of Freemasons.
I have never heard of a "female Masonic Lodge" created by her and Pike. It would be nice if the Archimandrite would provide sources for these claims...

Quote from: Archimandrite Haralambos Vasilopoulos
She imposed Pike to implement spiritualism
Nonsense. Anyone only slightly familiar with Theosophy and the Theosophical Society knows that from the beginning it opposed (and quite vocally) spiritualism. In Isis Unveiled, The Key to Theosophy, Lucifer magazine, etc. etc. there is no group more attacked by Blavatsky than that of the spiritualists. HPB goes to painstaking lengths to describe the dangers in necromancy, seances, channeling, etc. (Spiritualists, Blavatsky insists, delve into many things beyond their understanding).

Quote from: Archimandrite Haralambos Vasilopoulos
Satanist German Jew Helena Blavatsky
What?

I don't really know how to respond to this one. The Archimandrite's antisemitic undertones aside, how did he arrive at this description? What is a satanist (and how is Blavatsky, a person who not only encouraged moral excellence and selflessness, but rejected the literal existence of such beings [Satan], one of them)? Also, when did she become Jewish?

He goes on to suggest that she met Karl Marx, which, if it did happen, is largely irrelevant considering the Madame spurned politics and political theory.

Quote from: Archimandrite Haralambos Vasilopoulos
Madame Blavatsky was, at that time, herself a believer in spiritism and claimed to belong to the school of Allan Kardec, from whom she preserved certain ideas, notably those concerning reincarnation
Actually, Blavatsky's "ideas" on reincarnation are quite different from Kardec's (she criticizes his school in her writings). The French spiritualists did not have a concept of Karma (which is essential to a Theosophical understanding of reincarnation) nor did they believe in a time interval between incarnations (in Theosophy, this is sometimes thousands of years in Devachan).

Quote from: Archimandrite Haralambos Vasilopoulos
This is because in the Madras periodical "Christian College" and in the periodical "Society for Psychical Research" the miracles of Adyar were shown to be fake and fraudulent.

Dr. Richard Hodgson‘s relevant research acted on behalf of the Society for Psychical Research. In his related report, he mentions that the supposed letters of Mahatmas that Blavatsky received from the afterlife, and contained their messages, were written by Blavatsky herself either personally or dictated by her.

Two of her colleagues, K.H. and Coulomb, admitted they collaborated in the development of Blavatsky‘s miracles.

Indeed, Blavatsky herself was also forced to admit with much artlessness if not cynicism that it was necessary to act in this deceitful manner in order for the propagation of her ideas to succeed.

Alright, here we go (and I knew this part was coming - it's in every "refutation" of Theosophy). Lets discuss this in a bit greater detail.

Firstly, Theosophy believes in no miracles.

Secondly, Blavatsky never once suggested the Mahatma letters came from the afterlife (Theosophy denies that such contact with the afterlife is possible), but from real and living Masters.

Thirdly, Koot Hoomi (who I can only assume the Archimandrite means when he says K.H.) certainly did not speak out against Blavatsky (seeing as he was one of the Mahatmas)

Finally, the occult phenomena were hardly disproved and I will tell you why. The Coulombs, who had been aboard a ship with Blavatsky decades ago, had helped HPB financially following the loss of her possessions (the ship sank). Blavatsky later assisted them when they found themselves in dire straits. Blavatsky provided the Coulombs with a living in India, but the couple eventually betrayed her trust. In truth, they bit the hand that fed them. The leaders of the Christian College paid a decent amount for the performance of a stunt they felt would "ruin Blavatsky" (who's efforts in India had severely hindered their missionary efforts). The Coulombs agreed to construct a number of panels and trapdoors in the Madame's quarters (who was in London/Paris at the time). Aside from the fact that much of her phenomena could not be accomplished by means of trapdoors (such as those preformed outdoors, as well as those involving the disruption of gravity, etc.), there are a number of factors that should at least cause us to doubt the Coulomb testimonies. Not only did the other member of the Society notice noises coming from the Madame's room over the preceding weeks, but the members of the Christian College visited the Adyar Headquarters the day after the Coulombs had finished their "construction work", asking for a "tour" of the facility. An independent investigator later confirmed the additions to be recent in origin.

Of course, the SPR has since rejected the Hodgeson Report (in 1986) not only because his only real source was the Coulomb testimonies (which have since been discredited), but because his conclusion was lunacy (that the TS was Blavatsky's cover for her occupation as a Russian spy).

Folks, for a good Blavatsky biography, I would recommend Sylvia Cranston's HPB

P.S. While my comments on this topic are quite critical, I do appreciate your postings, Dionysii. You give quite a bit of food for thought
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« Reply #63 on: April 03, 2013, 10:43:49 PM »


At least as far as Guenon was concerned, there was nothing fictional about Rudyard Kipling's 'Kim' which was a factual history published under the guise of a novel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_(novel)

Interesting.  Where does Guenon get that notion from, aside from the obvious Great Game setting?
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« Reply #64 on: April 03, 2013, 10:54:16 PM »

Both, they are truly one in the same.
No. Evolution does not have a goal. Progress has a goal.

Something may evolve to become simpler in order to adapt to an environment. Something is not "more" or "less" evolved, only more or less adapted to a particular environment.
So saith Darwin and the materialists. The need to survive is not the primary motive behind evolution and even your own tradition (at least that portion which accepts evolution) agrees with me.

With all due respect, Atlantis has nothing to do with Crete. The final portion to sink (Poseidonis) did so in 9,564 B.C. and it was located beyond the pillars of Hercules.
With all due respect, all the historical evidence points to the Minoans as the Atlantians.

The Egyptian word for "atlantian" is even the same as the word for "cretan".
What is the deal with these expressions "all the historical evidence" or as Iconodule stated earlier "all the Theosophical doctrines". I understand you are trying to be rhetorical, but can we please not make such misleading statements. Plato places Atlantis, as I have already said, beyond Gibraltar, and states that it sunk in 8570 BC (Timaeus) and later in his life, 9421 BC (Critias). Here is an interesting article on oceanographic evidence : http://www.blavatsky.net/confirm/ev/atlantis/atlantis.htm

What evidence did you have in mind (for Cretan Atlantis)?
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« Reply #65 on: April 04, 2013, 12:14:29 AM »

Now, for Theosophy Unveiled :
The next time I locate a book against theosophy, I will take care to spare you one with such stoupidities (<misspeling deliberate).

I reckon that your task at analyzing this book on one level is easier than mine since it contains several laughable claims without backing evidence.  In a nutshell, what attracted me to the book at a glance were the titles of his chapters on events in the twnetieth century - such as his claims about the oecumenical movement and the unification of religions - which I have not yet read.  As far as his claims about nineteenth century historical matters, I am familiar with several other writers against whom I would check his facts.  Of course, there is Maria Carlson, but a bit more radical oriented book from circa 1930 is:
'Occult Theocracy'
By Lady Queenborough
http://archive.org/details/OccultTheocrasy

Although it is a bit late to delve into this, but I will say from a brief glance at your post (which I did not yet finish) that I automatically recalled that Guenon wrote from the perspective that theosophy and spiritualism were fundamentally different although he was critical of both.  

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I recall William James, founder of modern psychiatry was a spiritualist - a fact which Guenon comments upon briefly in his book on theosophy:  

"The leaders of Theosophy are certainly absolutely right to denounce the dangers of mediumship in this way, and we can only agree with them, but unfortunately they are very little qualified for such a role, since the dangers they point out to their disciples are scarcely more to be feared than those of the 'psychic training' they themselves impose, in either case, the most obvious result is to unbalance a good number of feeble minded people."

"It should be added that warnings such as the above are not always listended to in spite of the authority which those who issue them usually exert upon their followers.  Among the majority of both Theosophists and occultists we meet many people who also practice spiritismwithout being too concerned as to how these things can be reconciled, and perhaps without even wondering if they can be.  This is not too surprising given the many contradictions within Theosophy itself, which neither stop these people nor seem to embarrass them or make them think.  Since they are basically far more sentimental than intellectual, they appear to be attracted indifferently toward anything that appears capable of satisfying their vague pseudo-mystical aspirations.  This restless and misguided religiousity is one of the most striking characteristics of many of our contemporaries, and it is especially in America that its most varied and extraordinary manifestations can be seen, although Europe is far from immune to it.  This same tendency has also contributed greatly to the success of certain philosophical doctrines, such as Bergsonism, whose affinites with neo-spiritism we have mentioned previously.  The pragmatism of William James, with his theory of 'religious experience' and his appeal to to the 'subconscious' as a means for the human being to communicate with the Divine (which seems to us a true case of unconscious satanism), also proceeds from this source.  In this connection, it is useful to recall the degree of the eagerness with which such theories were adopted and used by the majority of modernists, whose mental make up is quite similar to that of the people presetnly under discussion.  Moreover, the modernist mentality and the protestant mentality differ only in nuance, even if they are not basically identical, and 'neo-spiritualism' in generally is very close to Protestantism.  As regards Theosophy in paticular, the second part of its history will enable the reader to understand this point."  

- from 'Theosophy: History of a Pseudo-Religion' (page 117)
By Rene Guenon
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« Reply #66 on: April 04, 2013, 12:48:32 AM »

At least as far as Guenon was concerned, there was nothing fictional about Rudyard Kipling's 'Kim' which was a factual history published under the guise of a novel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_(novel)
Interesting.  Where does Guenon get that notion from, aside from the obvious Great Game setting?

Recalling Guenon's contention that Annie Besant worked on behalf of British imperialism, I located the passage about Rudyard Kipling's 'Kim' in Guenon's book on theosophy (pages 283 & 284) of which I will quote a part:

"We heard Mrs Besant complain that her life was threatened; and if in fact there never was a real attempt on her life, it is no less true that in spite of all the precautions with which she surrounded herself, she was pelted with stones during her travels through India.  In 1916 an effort was made to rehabilitate her in the eyes of Hindus, and to provide these latter with some element of confidence, by her sham internment in her own villa of Gulistan, which, however, did not hinder her holding meetings.  But this rather crude ruse fooled no one, and it was only in Europe that some believed this measure to be motivated by a real change in her political attitude.  It can now be understood why some Hindus readily associate her name with that of Rudyard Kipling, who is certainly a great writer (and Mrs Besantis not entirely lacking in talent) but whose diverse adventuresreflect little honour on his character and keep him from returning to his country of birth.  And there is this aggravating circumstance:  both are of Irish origin.  And as we speak of Rudyard Kipling, let us note that he wrote a novel entitled Kim which, but for some few details, can be considered a real autobiography, particularly the rigorously historical account of the rivalry of the Russians and English in the northern regions of India.  Among other things, curious details are given there on the organization of political espionage and on the use by the English of a secret society called Sat Bhai ('The Seven Brothers').  This society really exists and was introduced into England by officers of the Indian Army in 1875, the very year in which the Theosophical Society was founded..."
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« Reply #67 on: April 04, 2013, 01:59:05 AM »

Thanks for posting that passage, Dionysii.

For some reason I thought Guenon was accusing Kipling of simply transplanting an actual story--an orphan following around a Buddhist monk and getting caught up in the Great Game--into a novel.  Instead, the quote shows Kim to be, what we would now call a historical novel.  It's for that reason that scholars and practitioners of related fields often read the book, as it contains cultural/historical elements that Guenon mentions and more.
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« Reply #68 on: April 04, 2013, 09:00:45 AM »

the quote shows Kim to be, what we would now call a historical novel.
Guenon wrote that 'Kim' is Rudyard Kipling's autobiography.  It describes Kipling's own life - except for a few petty details which are the only things that qualify it as a novel rather than a 100% history.
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