Author Topic: Timeline for Holy Week  (Read 557 times)

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Offline serb1389

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Timeline for Holy Week
« on: March 21, 2013, 01:08:43 PM »
So I was just discussing with a parishioner the reasons why the calculation for Pascha has changed from Nicea I to the 6th century changes with the 19 cycle lunar model. 

As we discussed things, he asked me, how come we celebrate Christ's passion one week after Passover (according to the Gospel of John), but the events are taken (many of them) from the other Gospels, which would have occurred one week before.

Is it just as simple as "we took the whole story & placed it into the timeline of John"??

hope i'm making sense here

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Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Timeline for Holy Week
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2013, 01:19:12 PM »

I always thought it fit in neatly...

Wasn't Christ's body removed from the Cross because the Sabbath was the next day?  That being Saturday?

...and wasn't Christ crucified, and Barabas freed because they free a prisoner on Passover?
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Offline Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)

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Re: Timeline for Holy Week
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2013, 02:39:44 PM »
I think that because of the prohibition of celebrating Pascha with the Jews. Dr. Patsavos wrote a wonderful article explaining this in 2001. Here is the money paragrtaph:

"Events in Jewish history contributing to the dispersion of the Jews had as a consequence a departure from the way Passover was reckoned at the time of our Lord's death and resurrection. This caused the Passover to precede the vernal equinox in some years. It was, in fact, this anomaly which led to the condemnation reflected in Canon 1 of Antioch (ca. 330) and Canon 7 of the Holy Apostles (late 4th century) of those who celebrate Pascha "with the Jews." The purpose of this condemnation was to prevent Christians from taking into account the calculation of Passover in determining the date of Pascha." (my emphasis).

http://www.goarch.org/ourfaith/ourfaith7050

Offline serb1389

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Re: Timeline for Holy Week
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2013, 03:57:54 PM »

I always thought it fit in neatly...

Wasn't Christ's body removed from the Cross because the Sabbath was the next day?  That being Saturday?

...and wasn't Christ crucified, and Barabas freed because they free a prisoner on Passover?

I thought that we followed the timeline of Johns gospel which puts the death AFTER the Passover. Hence my confusion

Time to read patsavos
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Offline pensateomnia

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Re: Timeline for Holy Week
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2013, 10:24:35 AM »

I always thought it fit in neatly...

Wasn't Christ's body removed from the Cross because the Sabbath was the next day?  That being Saturday?

...and wasn't Christ crucified, and Barabas freed because they free a prisoner on Passover?

I thought that we followed the timeline of Johns gospel which puts the death AFTER the Passover. Hence my confusion

Time to read patsavos

I have an old post on this topic: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,9247.msg123877.html#msg123877

In addition to the scriptural issues, there are two further points: (1) Over the centuries, various Jewish sects have calculated Passover in a variety of conflicting ways; and (2) for this and other reasons, the Orthodox Paschalion is NOT tied to the modern-day Jewish celebration of Passover. In fact, recent Paschas have taken place BEFORE the end of modern-day Jewish Passover.

There's a lot of confusion on this point, but some common sense is needed: In general, the Orthodox Church does not take its cue from post-Temple Judaism: we don't use their Scriptures (we use the Septuagint) and we don't follow their calendar. Should be obvious, really. And the text of Nicaea is very clear on the question.

Another good article on the matter: http://almoutran.com/2011/03/346
But for I am a man not textueel I wol noght telle of textes neuer a deel. (Chaucer, The Manciple's Tale, 1.131)

Offline Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)

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Re: Timeline for Holy Week
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2013, 10:53:32 AM »

I always thought it fit in neatly...

Wasn't Christ's body removed from the Cross because the Sabbath was the next day?  That being Saturday?

...and wasn't Christ crucified, and Barabas freed because they free a prisoner on Passover?

I thought that we followed the timeline of Johns gospel which puts the death AFTER the Passover. Hence my confusion

Time to read patsavos

I have an old post on this topic: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,9247.msg123877.html#msg123877

In addition to the scriptural issues, there are two further points: (1) Over the centuries, various Jewish sects have calculated Passover in a variety of conflicting ways; and (2) for this and other reasons, the Orthodox Paschalion is NOT tied to the modern-day Jewish celebration of Passover. In fact, recent Paschas have taken place BEFORE the end of modern-day Jewish Passover.

There's a lot of confusion on this point, but some common sense is needed: In general, the Orthodox Church does not take its cue from post-Temple Judaism: we don't use their Scriptures (we use the Septuagint) and we don't follow their calendar. Should be obvious, really. And the text of Nicaea is very clear on the question.

Another good article on the matter: http://almoutran.com/2011/03/346

A great summary on this issue. Nice to see you back. Christos Anesti!