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Author Topic: Conclave and a New Pope  (Read 12946 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #585 on: March 16, 2013, 04:39:07 AM »

Purgatory and all beliefs related to it, are stumbling blocks to unity.

Seconded.
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« Reply #586 on: March 16, 2013, 05:10:25 AM »

Purgatory and all beliefs related to it, are stumbling blocks to unity.

Seconded.

Not that Purgatory what present RCC officially teaches. Historical Purgatory on the other hand...
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« Reply #587 on: March 16, 2013, 06:32:42 AM »

Well, Eastern Orthodox Church Fathers teach that upon passing from this life, passing from the "Church Militant" to the "Church Triumphant," the soul receives a "Partial Judgment" and experiences a "foretaste" of the determination that will be made at the "Final Judgement."  The soul does not experience time during this state. While Church Fathers encourage the faithful in this life to pray for those reposed, even asserting that the soul may sense a "temporary reprieve" from the prayers of the living, in their writings the Church Fathers acknowledge that they do not know whether these prayers will necessarily be efficacious, not-with-standing God's Judgement, because the effective result of prayers for the departed has no scriptural support.  Fathers also teach that the "Church Militant" and the "Church Triumphant" join together in worship, "among the saints."  The Orthodox Church does not teach of a state of existence in a "Purgatory;" "the purging of sins," none of the Roman Catholic teaching about Purgatory is taught in the Orthodox Church, neither does the word "purgatory" exist in Orthodox ecclesial terminology.

This morning the church observes the 2nd Saturday of the Souls, with a memorial Trisagion Service following the Divine Liturgy.
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« Reply #588 on: March 16, 2013, 07:17:49 AM »

I hope he railroads the granting of Patriarchal status to the UGCC.

At the beginning of next month, Pope Francis is going to proclaim a Ukrainian Patriarchate and an SSPX Patriarchate.

I'd love to see an SSPX Patriarchate






so I can anathemize it  Grin Grin Grin
Seriously dude, not all SSPXers are the monsters you make them out to be. Some are very humble, holy people.
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« Reply #589 on: March 16, 2013, 07:37:10 AM »

 Grin

Anyway, do you think the new Pope is really going to head towards a reunion?  People have been overanalyzing his initial speech and it suggest that he would like to emphasize on himself as the Bishop of the Diocese of Rome, rather than the Pope of the entire Catholic Church.  Definitely the Orthodox welcome that.
Yes, I think Pope Francis will work toward reunion and a one-world religion,

Hey don't make me come over there!

But seriously, we (Catholics) don't encourage Orthodox to swim-the-Tiber. That's not just my personal policy, it's right in the Balamand Statement. (Of course, that's not to say that we discourage Orthodox from doing so.)
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« Reply #590 on: March 16, 2013, 07:38:39 AM »


Anyway, do you think the new Pope is really going to head towards a reunion?  People have been overanalyzing his initial speech and it suggest that he would like to emphasize on himself as the Bishop of the Diocese of Rome, rather than the Pope of the entire Catholic Church.  Definitely the Orthodox welcome that.

Yes, I think Pope Francis will work toward reunion and a one-world religion, but it will be a false reunion because of his heavy involvement with the Charismatic Renewal, the Pentecostal Movement, and annual Chanukah services. I would not be surprised if the Antiochian Patriarch of Antioch approaches the Pope and seeks a reunion too. In fact, Patriarch John might be the first one to swim across the Mediterranean Sea.




Except that "With God, all things are possible," not under any circumstances can I imagine unification between the Roman Catholic Church and the  Eastern Orthodox Church, not-with-standing the "Dialogue of Love" and the ecumenical lingo, i.e. "the two lungs," etc., the Roman Catholic Church is not going to renounce its innovative teaching and doctrine, like its Papal unilateral addition of non-scripturally based language to the 9th Article of the "Symbol of Faith," that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father "and the Son" (Filioque); that a single bishop of the church is infallible when he speaks "Ex Cathedra;" that the Mother of God was conceived immaculately; etc.  Likewise, the Eastern Orthodox Church will never abandon Holy Tradition and compromise on these issues.  To paraphrase Patriarch Bartholomew, who, during his visit to America in 1997, spoke the following words at Georgetown University, "While we share a 1,000 common history, we have also lived apart during another 1,000 years."

A serious and respectful theological dialogue should focus on these substantial matters in dispute, and publish the arguments in support of the church's respective positions on them, side by side, instead of talking about "two lungs."

Trinitarian traditional churches, led by the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church, should forge an alliance to speak to the increasingly secular world, and work to refute the heretical message of the scourge of Moslem terror.

Look at the nice words His Beatitude John had to say about the Moslems in his Enthronement Speech.
He carefully avoided your phrase, "scourge of Moslem terror." Pope Francis will also avoid that phrase as Pope Benedict got a lot of bad press when he used a similar expression, and ultimately had to apologize to the Moslems, didn't he? Of course, many Moslems did not accept the papal apology. It made for some rough times. This is why I think he may swim toward Rome and encourage the EP and MP to do likewise.

That's why you think he may swim toward Rome and encourage the EP and MP to do likewise?
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« Reply #591 on: March 16, 2013, 07:51:56 AM »

However, look at HB John's Enthronement Speech
http://www.antiochian.org/sites/antiochian.org/files/march_2013_word.pdf

Paragraph 1 - "The Holy Spirit reveals Jesus whenever HEdawns*, making Him present yet veiled in all religions and cultures."

*I think this word is a typo. Is it corrected in the PDF? I am reading from the magazine.

Paragraph 4 - "God is not pleased to see that the unity He wants for His people is shattered, an that is flock is divided into many factions."

Paragraph 8 - "Modernity is a blessing that calls us to revive the fundamentals of our worship and teachings, and also to differentiate between the one Holy Tradition and the many secondary traditions and practices to which we often cling."

~~~~~

With three sentences, I have reached my limit and so must stop quoting so as not to violate the copyright laws.

Paragraph 1 is a thinly veiled vague statement that approaches heresy.

Paragraph 4 urges unity ... we do not need a one-world religion.

Paragraph 8 really concerns me as HB John is bringing into play the Big T vs the Little t traditions ... a distinction that came about with the Roman Catholic Vatican II discussions. Modernism is rearing its ugly head here.

This Enthronement Speech sounds similar to what Pope Francis most likely will write and deliver at his installation mass. I am not ecstatic.

You overreact.  A lot.

By saying "I'm not ecstatic"?

By jumping to conclusions that the text doesn't really support and putting a negative spin on statements that bear other interpretations.
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« Reply #592 on: March 16, 2013, 08:04:19 AM »

why?

would it be humorous if laymen were holding it? Nuns?
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« Reply #593 on: March 16, 2013, 08:04:19 AM »

Buddy, you have a real axe to grind.

To be fair, the SSPX have a pretty big ax to grind too.

Of course they don't.  C'mon, they're always right and everyone else is always wrong.  Wink
Come on man, you know very well that there are various kinds of SSPX members. I know a very kind priest who was a vicar at my parish before he went SSPX. His defection to the SSPX does not make him any less a kind and generous man than does your conversion to Eastern Orthodoxy. Do I agree with everything the SSPX does? Of course not. But they have a good reason to be upset about the modern state of the Church. Have some mercy on these people. Sure, some are jerks, but you'll find jerks in any group. But some are simply trying to follow their consciences, and live the Catholic faith as it has been lived and taught for centuries. BTW, rebuking Popes, and criticizing their pastoral decisions, and personal theology is not a novelty. I seem to remember St. Catherine of Sienna, among others, being quite tough on certain Popes. Heck, Dante even put some Popes in hell in his Divine Comedy.
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« Reply #594 on: March 16, 2013, 08:05:59 AM »

However, look at these brief excerpts from HB John's Enthronement Speech.
http://www.antiochian.org/sites/antiochian.org/files/march_2013_word.pdf

Paragraph 1 - "The Holy Spirit reveals Jesus whenever HEdawns*, making Him present yet veiled in all religions and cultures."

*I think this word is a typo. Is it corrected in the PDF? I am reading from the magazine.

Paragraph 4 - "God is not pleased to see that the unity He wants for His people is shattered, and that His flock is divided into many factions."

Paragraph 8 - "Modernity is a blessing that calls us to revive the fundamentals of our worship and teachings, and also to differentiate between the one Holy Tradition and the many secondary traditions and practices to which we often cling."

~~~~~

With three sentences, I have reached my limit and so must stop quoting so as not to violate the copyright laws.

Paragraph 1 is a thinly veiled vague statement that approaches heresy.
Read Romans 1. And Phillipians 4:8.

Paragraph 4 urges unity ... we do not need a one-world religion.
How about respect for canonical boundaries? Like, say, Jerusalem not intruding on Antioch?
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,50416.0.html

Paragraph 8 really concerns me as HB John is bringing into play the Big T vs the Little t traditions ... a distinction that came about with the Roman Catholic Vatican II discussions. Modernism is rearing its ugly head here.
Quote
God is not pleased when He sees us clinging
to the letter of things, emptying the letter of spirit and life. We know that the Church is alive by
the Holy spirit, and through Whom, it has survived throughout history. Ecclesial tradition is
not something motionless or stagnant, but a tool
of salvation and a way to understand the divine
sacrament. We live at a time in which tradition
is often rejected, and this negatively affects our
youth. Our Church is concerned with the developments of our time because Jesus Christ wants
it to be His witness at all times. Following up on
a time like ours requires wiping off the dust that,
due to our sins, has accumulated on our tradition
throughout the centuries. It also requires working to reveal what is authentic in it...[your quote]...The witness of the Church, at this
age, is to discern and make choices. modernity
offers many opportunities. We must resort to the
good in it to regain our people who are getting
increasingly attracted by prevailing globalization. Our Church must not fear to use the methods available in our time to modernise its practices, to build bridges towards its children, and
to learn to speak their language. this is what the
holy fathers did when they used Greek philosophy, which was widespread in their time, to convey the message of the Gospel in a language that
the people understood. We have to follow their
example if we are to remain faithful in transmitting the message. the challenge lies in making
the life of Jesus Christ glow in our faces, in our
worship, and in all the aspects of our Church that
the people may find their salvation in it. Finally,
renewal is not only to modernise the texts and to
make them understandable in the language of our
time, but to renew the human soul and bring it
closer to the face of Jesus. All its attention must
be in His direction. Only then will modernisation
interact with the human heart and lead to the salvation of man.
Tradition is not parroting the dead faith of the living.

This Enthronement Speech sounds similar to what Pope Francis most likely will write and deliver at his installation mass. I am not ecstatic.
You seem, as shown by your editing of para. 8, to be looking for problems.

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« Reply #595 on: March 16, 2013, 09:53:43 AM »

Quote
Not that its happening, but would a Byzantine/Eastern Catholic Pope
Unfortunately, that will never happen....ever.

I agree that it's probably not going to happen, but I'm not sure that's a bad thing.
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« Reply #596 on: March 16, 2013, 10:29:14 AM »

why?

would it be humorous if laymen were holding it? Nuns?

Meh, lighten up, it was a pretty good joke.
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« Reply #597 on: March 16, 2013, 11:20:15 AM »

I hope he railroads the granting of Patriarchal status to the UGCC.

At the beginning of next month, Pope Francis is going to proclaim a Ukrainian Patriarchate and an SSPX Patriarchate.

I'd love to see an SSPX Patriarchate






so I can anathemize it  Grin Grin Grin
Seriously dude, not all SSPXers are the monsters you make them out to be. Some are very humble, holy people.

Of course there is.  But they're like kind and courteous Customs and Border Patrol Agents.
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« Reply #598 on: March 16, 2013, 11:20:24 AM »

The Orthodox do recognize this election, right? Even though we arent in communion, don't we still recognize him officially as the Bishop of Rome?

I don't think that you do, although I could be mistaken.  Didn't someone else post a picture of the Orthodox Bishop of Rome as a snarky rejoinder to the implication that we were all sedevacantists for a time?
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« Reply #599 on: March 16, 2013, 11:20:50 AM »

Purgatory and all beliefs related to it, are stumbling blocks to unity.

Seconded.

Thirded  Grin Cheesy
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« Reply #600 on: March 16, 2013, 11:25:58 AM »

I am interested to know why an Orthodox Christian thinks that  the Roman belief in venial sin and Purgatory is not a cause of division between the RC and Orthodox Church? In the Roman Church, if you die in the state of grace, but with a venial sin on your soul, you will go to Purgatory for some time. Your time in Purgatory may be reduced somewhat by the prayers of the faithful on earth, but in any case, you are assured of salvation. Additionally, even if you sincerely repented and confessed a serious sin, you would be saved but still, most likely, you might have to spend some time in Purgatory before entering heaven. I didn't think that this RC teaching would be reconcilable with Orthodox teaching, but you seem to say that I was wrong in that assumption?

Venial sin is not an obstacle to unity.  While the Orthodox would reject the legalism behind the concept of "venial" and "mortal" sin, there is nothing objectively wrong about the theology behind venial sins.

Purgatory is incompatible with the entire Orthodox belief on salvation.  While we do believe that one needs to be purified, that purification or purgation is not a spiritual fire where one experiences pain and suffering.  Also, we do not believe in sins being forgiven and yet you still need to go through the pain of purgatory.  When God forgives, He forgives completely.
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« Reply #601 on: March 16, 2013, 12:16:17 PM »

One world religion, like one world government is not a conspiracy of shadowy groups or of any group in particular. It's a value, a cultural trend and probably innevitable. It won't be a religion per se probably but an attitude toward any religion that relativizes it. Anyone who acts or thinks that their religion is more "true" than the others will be socially marginalized, put to jail or killed depending on the strictness of the laws of each country.

The concept that in being a member of the Orthodox Church, and of the Orthodox Church only, you are literally a member of the Body of Christ participating in His incarnation, crucifiction and resurrection will make you liable to one of those three destinies, for all differences will be considered to be just man-made.

I still do not know what to think of Pope Francis. I like what I hear about his humble ways, but a friend has correctly pointed out that all this humbleness has been carefully performed in front of cameras both now and in Argentina as a bishop. I've read and seen videos where too he is a bit too willing to participate in other religions cerimonies. This Hanukkah with the presence of even the syncretic afro-brazilian umbandists seems a prophanation even of the Jewish cerimony itself. This sort of thing is what "one world religion" will look like. More and more not participating in this kind of thing will be liable to some sort of social or actual punishment, more and more the subtext that "we all worship the same God" will be spread and that "fraternal love" is all that is necessary and that there is no such thing as theological truth, just vanity of intellectuals.
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« Reply #602 on: March 16, 2013, 12:31:38 PM »

I think traditionalists overstate how many people are like them in the Roman church. But a trickle of TLM attendes is better than nothing, and you will eventually reach a low threshold. You also have to remember, the old Rite was effectively abolished for an entire generation. Until the advent of indult masses in 1984, it was nearly impossible to attend the old Rite Mass in full communion with the Pope. The damage was done, much as England could never really go back to Sarum when Queen Mary succeeded Elizabeth. Protestantizing bishops - from Cranmer on down - brought in the new order and the old one was out.

Mary didn't succeed Elizabeth.  Mary succeeded their brother Edward VI, and Elizabeth succeeded Mary.  While there certainly was much damage (spiritual and physical) done under the Protestant Edward, Mary's five-year reign did indeed see the restoration of Catholic worship.  It was then dismantled under Elizabeth.
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« Reply #603 on: March 16, 2013, 01:53:51 PM »

Grin

Anyway, do you think the new Pope is really going to head towards a reunion?  People have been overanalyzing his initial speech and it suggest that he would like to emphasize on himself as the Bishop of the Diocese of Rome, rather than the Pope of the entire Catholic Church.  Definitely the Orthodox welcome that.
Yes, I think Pope Francis will work toward reunion and a one-world religion,

Hey don't make me come over there!

But seriously, we (Catholics) don't encourage Orthodox to swim-the-Tiber. That's not just my personal policy, it's right in the Balamand Statement. (Of course, that's not to say that we discourage Orthodox from doing so.)

Catholic Answers and other Catholic apologists, particularly Scott Butler, have been claiming that they are converting the Orthodox Christians to Catholicism, including some priests. Here in Los Angeles, I know quite a few Orthodox Christians who converted to Catholicism so that their own children could attend the Catholic school and receive a discount. Many Greeks tend to have large families, and a discount helps them financially. They actually like the NO (politically corrected OF) mass because it is shorter (15 to 30 min.) and in English.
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« Reply #604 on: March 16, 2013, 03:05:55 PM »

Grin

Anyway, do you think the new Pope is really going to head towards a reunion?  People have been overanalyzing his initial speech and it suggest that he would like to emphasize on himself as the Bishop of the Diocese of Rome, rather than the Pope of the entire Catholic Church.  Definitely the Orthodox welcome that.
Yes, I think Pope Francis will work toward reunion and a one-world religion,

Hey don't make me come over there!

But seriously, we (Catholics) don't encourage Orthodox to swim-the-Tiber. That's not just my personal policy, it's right in the Balamand Statement. (Of course, that's not to say that we discourage Orthodox from doing so.)

Catholic Answers and other Catholic apologists, particularly Scott Butler, have been claiming that they are converting the Orthodox Christians to Catholicism, including some priests.

I believe it.

However, their particular policy doesn't change the Balamand Statement. The Balamand Statement still represents a significant change in our policy toward Orthodox, even if it hasn't brought about a complete 180°.
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« Reply #605 on: March 16, 2013, 04:56:35 PM »

However, look at HB John's Enthronement Speech
http://www.antiochian.org/sites/antiochian.org/files/march_2013_word.pdf

Paragraph 1 - "The Holy Spirit reveals Jesus whenever HEdawns*, making Him present yet veiled in all religions and cultures."

*I think this word is a typo. Is it corrected in the PDF? I am reading from the magazine.

Paragraph 4 - "God is not pleased to see that the unity He wants for His people is shattered, an that is flock is divided into many factions."

Paragraph 8 - "Modernity is a blessing that calls us to revive the fundamentals of our worship and teachings, and also to differentiate between the one Holy Tradition and the many secondary traditions and practices to which we often cling."

~~~~~

With three sentences, I have reached my limit and so must stop quoting so as not to violate the copyright laws.

Paragraph 1 is a thinly veiled vague statement that approaches heresy.

Paragraph 4 urges unity ... we do not need a one-world religion.

Paragraph 8 really concerns me as HB John is bringing into play the Big T vs the Little t traditions ... a distinction that came about with the Roman Catholic Vatican II discussions. Modernism is rearing its ugly head here.

This Enthronement Speech sounds similar to what Pope Francis most likely will write and deliver at his installation mass. I am not ecstatic.

You overreact.  A lot.

By saying "I'm not ecstatic"?

Her quote from paragraph 1 is essentially a quote from St. Justin Martyr, and hardly a heresy.

Paragraph 4, I don't much care for. He seems to lean towards the Roman Catholic view, and even uses the term, "sister Church". I'd like to hear more from His Beatitude about how he'd define "the Church", and whether he does indeed take the RC view, or sticks with the Orthodox perspective.

Paragraph 8 doesn't bother me. I think it's important to talk about those things which are culturally important versus those things which are essential to our Orthodox faith. The Church is trying really hard, and succeeding, in spreading to new cultures and becoming indigenous. After being bound to its cultures for so long, I think reflecting on this is a good thing. Not that cultural traditions should be dispensed with, and certainly not that we should be as liturgically free as the post-Vatican II Romans, mind you.

I'm not a big fan of Antioch. They've been on a more liberal side of things for quite some time. That said, they are Orthodox, and I don't see them abandoning the Church to swim the Tiber.
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« Reply #606 on: March 16, 2013, 07:43:06 PM »

Hello, Stanley.

First off the Catholic Church has always allowed a certain freedom in theological thought. Eastern Catholics also share the Orthodox understanding of these and other theological questions.

Secondly, since Orthodoxy is the only real answer, I must submit my will and intellect to her teachings.

If your problem is that you want the pre-Vatican II I Church, you will not find it in Orthodoxy.

Fixed it for you.

Orthodoxy is definitely pre-Vatican I and pre-Council of Trent. It was founded in 33 A.D.

That was my point.  When I was Eastern Catholic it was the same problem.  Some traddies will show up trying to search for the Pre-Vatican II Church.  While our priests faced east and chanted (for the most part), we don't kneel, we don't use Latin, and we were under the same Pope.  Same with Orthodoxy.  One really has to want the ancient Church and the ancient faith, the one that has been there from the beginning, to become Orthodox, not merely a pre-Vatican II or pre-Vatican I Roman Catholic Church.  I don't know how many traddies would go pre-Trent, Trent has always been the epitome of traditionalism according to the traditionalists.

This has always bugged me a bit. There seems to be a tendency to assume that there was no Church before Trent or St. Thomas Aquinas. Catholic "traditionalism" only seems to go back to about the 13th century.
LOL.  There's reason for that: go much further back, and you start to stray back into Orthodoxy.

Westerner who learns his own church's history>Orthodox catechumen.
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« Reply #607 on: March 16, 2013, 07:43:06 PM »


Anyway, do you think the new Pope is really going to head towards a reunion?  People have been overanalyzing his initial speech and it suggest that he would like to emphasize on himself as the Bishop of the Diocese of Rome, rather than the Pope of the entire Catholic Church.  Definitely the Orthodox welcome that.

Yes, I think Pope Francis will work toward reunion and a one-world religion, but it will be a false reunion because of his heavy involvement with the Charismatic Renewal, the Pentecostal Movement, and annual Chanukah services. I would not be surprised if the Antiochian Patriarch of Antioch approaches the Pope and seeks a reunion too. In fact, Patriarch John might be the first one to swim across the Mediterranean Sea.
Why would he do that?  The Melkite Pat. Gregory of Antioch doesn't like leaving the shores of the Gulf of Iskandarun, why should HB Pat. John X of Antioch want to swim out and drown.  (the melkite patriarch, btw, has been offered a cardinal's hat, but has refused it).

I'd worry more about the Vatican educated (the Antiochians have the only Orthodox Church run University in the World) HAH EP Bartholomew.  And even I don't find that likely.
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« Reply #608 on: March 16, 2013, 07:43:06 PM »

Look at the nice words His Beatitude John had to say about the Moslems in his Enthronement Speech.
He carefully avoided your phrase, "scourge of Moslem terror."
Pope Francis will also avoid that phrase as Pope Benedict got a lot of bad press when he used a similar expression, and ultimately had to apologize to the Moslems, didn't he? Of course, many Moslems did not accept the papal apology. It made for some rough times. This is why I think he may swim toward Rome and encourage the EP and MP to do likewise.

Why would HB intentionally antagonize an already violent and tumultuous region?

Indeed. Why would he? Why would anyone on this earth do so. Here in the city where I live, there is a huge Moslem presence. It would be suicidal to offend them.

I was probably about as offensive as you could be to a Muslim today, well a Black Muslim at least. And a lot of the dangerous Black People were around when it happened.

I lived.

Ohio isn't in the midst of the Dar al-Islam.
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« Reply #609 on: March 17, 2013, 08:48:07 AM »

would it be humorous if laymen were holding it? Nuns?

Well yes in case of nuns. It's like vegetarians carrying meat advertisement.
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« Reply #610 on: March 17, 2013, 11:28:17 AM »

would it be humorous if laymen were holding it? Nuns?

Well yes in case of nuns. It's like vegetarians carrying meat advertisement.

How so?

The Catholic sisters and nuns I knew in my youth were supportive of the male priesthood, but today's so-called Catholic "nuns" want to be priests, so they very often despise Catholic priests due to their rebellious arrogance. In addition, these lay sisters are not really nuns because they are not cloistered, and yes, they are lay sisters because they are members of the laity.
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« Reply #611 on: March 17, 2013, 11:32:40 AM »


Anyway, do you think the new Pope is really going to head towards a reunion?  People have been overanalyzing his initial speech and it suggest that he would like to emphasize on himself as the Bishop of the Diocese of Rome, rather than the Pope of the entire Catholic Church.  Definitely the Orthodox welcome that.

Yes, I think Pope Francis will work toward reunion and a one-world religion, but it will be a false reunion because of his heavy involvement with the Charismatic Renewal, the Pentecostal Movement, and annual Chanukah services. I would not be surprised if the Antiochian Patriarch of Antioch approaches the Pope and seeks a reunion too. In fact, Patriarch John might be the first one to swim across the Mediterranean Sea.
Why would he do that?  The Melkite Pat. Gregory of Antioch doesn't like leaving the shores of the Gulf of Iskandarun, why should HB Pat. John X of Antioch want to swim out and drown.  (the melkite patriarch, btw, has been offered a cardinal's hat, but has refused it).

I'd worry more about the Vatican educated (the Antiochians have the only Orthodox Church run University in the World) HAH EP Bartholomew.  And even I don't find that likely.

Good for the Melkite Patriarch. He sees the schizophrenia of being Eastern Catholic and wearing the dreadful cardinal red. Would that he would become fully Orthodox.

The Maronite Patriarch and other Eastern Cardinal-Patriarchs have totally bought into this latinization schizophrenia that the Vatican Congregations have forced upon them.
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« Reply #612 on: March 17, 2013, 11:33:51 AM »

I hope he railroads the granting of Patriarchal status to the UGCC.

At the beginning of next month, Pope Francis is going to proclaim a Ukrainian Patriarchate and an SSPX Patriarchate.

I'd love to see an SSPX Patriarchate






so I can anathemize it  Grin Grin Grin
Seriously dude, not all SSPXers are the monsters you make them out to be. Some are very humble, holy people.

True. We are not to judge.
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« Reply #613 on: March 17, 2013, 05:50:32 PM »


Anyway, do you think the new Pope is really going to head towards a reunion?  People have been overanalyzing his initial speech and it suggest that he would like to emphasize on himself as the Bishop of the Diocese of Rome, rather than the Pope of the entire Catholic Church.  Definitely the Orthodox welcome that.

Yes, I think Pope Francis will work toward reunion and a one-world religion, but it will be a false reunion because of his heavy involvement with the Charismatic Renewal, the Pentecostal Movement, and annual Chanukah services. I would not be surprised if the Antiochian Patriarch of Antioch approaches the Pope and seeks a reunion too. In fact, Patriarch John might be the first one to swim across the Mediterranean Sea.
Why would he do that?  The Melkite Pat. Gregory of Antioch doesn't like leaving the shores of the Gulf of Iskandarun, why should HB Pat. John X of Antioch want to swim out and drown.  (the melkite patriarch, btw, has been offered a cardinal's hat, but has refused it).

I don't know if he has been offered a cardinal's hat, but it seems certain that he would refuse one.
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« Reply #614 on: March 17, 2013, 06:07:05 PM »

https://twitter.com/YolandaDeMena/status/300923731092598786
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« Reply #615 on: March 17, 2013, 06:12:27 PM »


Do not share naked urls. Quote a part of the content or describe what is there.
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« Reply #616 on: March 17, 2013, 06:17:10 PM »


Do not share naked urls. Quote a part of the content or describe what is there.

I meant to post that as an image, but didn't work. Apparently that person claimed on 11 Feb on her twitter that her boyfriend had a dream that Pope Benedict would resign and a new Pope with the name Francisc I will take his place.
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« Reply #617 on: March 17, 2013, 07:10:56 PM »

Congratulation to all Roman Catholics! I really like (St.)* Francis of Assissi and I see it as a good sign that the new Pope of Rome chose that name. May Christ give him strength.


*no idea what's the forum policy about non-Orthodox sanctity titles, someone please enlighten me
on EWTN (you guys get that in Europe? It's the conservative channel of the Vatican's followers) they say it was Francis Xavier, the Jesuit who instituted the Inquisition in Asia.
It's official: the name comes from their saint of Assissi:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=t2XiT76tgCo
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« Reply #618 on: March 23, 2013, 07:06:07 PM »

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« Reply #619 on: March 24, 2013, 05:39:58 AM »

Bill Maher spent a second week ending "Real Time" by slamming Pope Francis, this time focusing on the media's fascination with the new pope.

"I have just about had it with the press squealing in delight with everything the new pope does," Maher said. "He's a 76-year-old executive who just got a promotion. You act like he's a baby who just made a boom-boom."

"There are over a billion Catholics -- just on the back of my gardener's truck," Maher said, to some applause and even a few boos. "So I get it that this is a legitimate news story. But can we at least stop saying that the job of pope is so hard?"

He even compared the Church to his own show.

"The Catholic Church has basically always done what we do here at 'Real Time.' It's a bunch of guys sitting around making up new rules."

Maher, who was raised Catholic and is now an outspoken voice against religion, is unlikely to stop his criticism of the pope or the Catholic Church anytime soon. Check out the clip above to see his rant against the new pope.

More here with video clip: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/23/bill-maher-slams-pope-francis-media_n_2940467.html
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