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Author Topic: Why are people here so contrariated against having to respond reasonably?  (Read 501 times) Average Rating: 0
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Virtual Paradise
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« on: March 22, 2013, 05:37:38 PM »

Why are people here so easily offended when their faith is challenged and asked forward to verification? Why are they so against reasoning the beliefs of the Church? Where did this heretical trend came from in this forum?
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« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2013, 05:38:01 PM »

Why are people here so easily offended when their faith is challenged and asked forward to verification? Why are they so against reasoning the beliefs of the Church? Where did this heretical trend came from in this forum?

Asked by quasi-protestant...
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« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2013, 06:21:02 PM »

Why are people here so easily offended when their faith is challenged and asked forward to verification? Why are they so against reasoning the beliefs of the Church? Where did this heretical trend came from in this forum?

Asked by quasi-protestant...

His question authenticated.
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« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2013, 06:49:02 PM »

I don't know. Most people probably just don't feel like it, I guess. I almost always answer every question and doubt brought up about my position on here though.
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« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2013, 07:40:25 PM »

Why are people here so easily offended when their faith is challenged and asked forward to verification? Why are they so against reasoning the beliefs of the Church? Where did this heretical trend came from in this forum?

Could you specify?
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« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2013, 07:53:44 PM »

Why are people here so easily offended when their faith is challenged and asked forward to verification? Why are they so against reasoning the beliefs of the Church? Where did this heretical trend came from in this forum?
Believe me dude, if the Orthodox faith was so easily refuted, I wouldn't bother. I don't think most on this forum would be here either.

It holds up under scrutiny, even some of the minutiae that needs subtlety.

IMO if the faith had a flaw, I don't think it would have withstood for very long and might still be a very minor religion.
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« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2013, 11:48:32 PM »

Why are they so against reasoning the beliefs of the Church? 

Because we are not Roman Catholics.  Our beliefs are a Faith, not something to be measured by Man's fallen and imperfect reason.  It is too much reasoning about the Faith that caused the Roman Church to go into heresy.
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« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2013, 11:53:39 PM »

Why are people here so easily offended when their faith is challenged and asked forward to verification? Why are they so against reasoning the beliefs of the Church? Where did this heretical trend came from in this forum?

It's because of people like me. Alas, this is the price we all must pay for the gift of snark.
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« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2013, 12:01:46 AM »

Why are people here so easily offended when their faith is challenged and asked forward to verification? Why are they so against reasoning the beliefs of the Church? Where did this heretical trend came from in this forum?

It's because of people like me. Alas, this is the price we all must pay for the gift of snark.

But really, people are hardly easily offended around here, save a few.

Virtual, people don't agree with you. And what you think is radically salient apologetics has been heard by some folks here about ten thousand times. So forgive them if they find your crypto proselytizing unimpressive.

Me, I just want you make me laugh once in a while. Either with or at.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2013, 12:02:25 AM by orthonorm » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2013, 12:17:04 AM »

Why are people here so easily offended when their faith is challenged and asked forward to verification? Why are they so against reasoning the beliefs of the Church? Where did this heretical trend came from in this forum?

Asked by quasi-protestant...

also hasty in making judgemntal and incitating remarks..
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« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2013, 12:17:04 AM »

I don't know. Most people probably just don't feel like it, I guess. I almost always answer every question and doubt brought up about my position on here though.

The problem is when they feel offended by questioning things reasonably and call those who do all sort of names and impose a judgement on them, and some of them are even mods, to the shame of this forum.

If you won't answer reasonably at least don't answer rudely. This seems to bring a lot of low quality to this forum.
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« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2013, 12:17:04 AM »

Why are people here so easily offended when their faith is challenged and asked forward to verification? Why are they so against reasoning the beliefs of the Church? Where did this heretical trend came from in this forum?
Believe me dude, if the Orthodox faith was so easily refuted, I wouldn't bother. I don't think most on this forum would be here either.

It holds up under scrutiny, even some of the minutiae that needs subtlety.

IMO if the faith had a flaw, I don't think it would have withstood for very long and might still be a very minor religion.

This isn't about the faith being right or wrong. It is about justification. Answering according to the request. Sadely as I see it a lot of topics that have an intelectual request remain unanswered and besides that people even feel offended by them and in a tone of self-righteous pride succumb to low things as in incitations, insults, mockeries and such on and even ask how one would dare ask such a thing..

The fathers said : He who wants to be saved let him travel questioning..

in romanian : Cine vrea sa se mantuiasca cu intrebarea sa calatoreasca.

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« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2013, 12:17:04 AM »

Well, I believe its a form of dissonance.  It's easier to attack somebody than to rationally see another person's point of view and evidence.

If you give biblical evidence and early Christian tradition, and pit it up against the EO worship/liturgy/practices, you are going to be attacked.  (often a group ensues) It's an odd form of cyber bullying as you'll be ganged up on (often) faster than you can respond.   See this commonly occurs in internet chat rooms.   Funny thing is I've witnessed this stuff for over 20 years now that I've been online.  Time and time again I've witnessed chat rooms and forums go against a certain individual that thinks differently than the "grain" of the chat room/forum.   The funniest thing is when they start the berating and you know exactly what they are doing.  Basically at that point, the psychosis ensues and you know full well what is happening.  Since then you basically 'sit back', it makes you feel like a troll.... But when you go back to your original post, you see there was nothing trollish in it.  LOL.   It's actually funny and amazing sometimes.  It's like "how did I get into a conversation about rubber ducks, when I began the thread about pouring concrete??"

Answering in a mean fashion is a defense mechanism and also a mechanism of frustration.  It can also be a way that somebody makes themselves feel better as void exists in their lives (such as loneliness, depression, etc.).   If one is making "elementary points" which would make somebody question the IQ of the poster, you can get mean answers as well, but not often to the point of outright insulting ones.  

Another form of dissonance is to reject somebody based on labels.   For instance, I have vast Eastern Orthodox experience.  My Father (parent) is an ordained Eastern Orthodox Priest.  I've attended St. Vlad's (dropped out) and was Eastern Orthodox for more years than many posters on this forum have been alive.  But EO is about 100% EO, or NOT EO.   There is not a gray area.  

Also you have to really watch out and not make the mistake/accidently posting in the wrong section with certain topics/answers, as that can trigger other issues.

The thing is you have to articulate your questions and statements with respect.   Religion and Politics... the two things my Grandmother will never talk about....  Why?  because they bring in heated debate.   There are mature posters on here however, that will agree or disagree with you in a respectful manner.  They are people who wish to engage in dialog or debate, while respecting you as another person who just wants to make it to salvation/heaven.

Also remember this as it is most important - it is easier to be cruel to an avatar/graphics/text.  People could heavily dislike my theological POV.   But if they were at my home having supper and we were talking about cars/telescopes/government/finance/art/homesteading/farming we most certainly would get along.   Many don't see the parent that you are, the husband/wife that you are, or the hard work you put into your life.  They don't see the stacks of books your read or your other interests.  (For instance we have 90 eggs in our incubator right now, 10 are wobbling about to hatch!!!)

Anyhow, this is my take on it.  Been in some heated debate before.   Still not resolved... But meh who knows.
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« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2013, 12:24:05 AM »

Why are people here so easily offended when their faith is challenged and asked forward to verification? Why are they so against reasoning the beliefs of the Church? Where did this heretical trend came from in this forum?
Believe me dude, if the Orthodox faith was so easily refuted, I wouldn't bother. I don't think most on this forum would be here either.

It holds up under scrutiny, even some of the minutiae that needs subtlety.

IMO if the faith had a flaw, I don't think it would have withstood for very long and might still be a very minor religion.

This isn't about the faith being right or wrong. It is about justification. Answering according to the request. Sadely as I see it a lot of topics that have an intelectual request remain unanswered and besides that people even feel offended by them and in a tone of self-righteous pride succumb to low things as in incitations, insults, mockeries and such on and even ask how one would dare ask such a thing..

The fathers said : He who wants to be saved let him travel questioning..

in romanian : Cine vrea sa se mantuiasca cu intrebarea sa calatoreasca.


VP, I've seen a lot of posters on this forum from Arad, Romania. Do you know any of them?
« Last Edit: March 23, 2013, 12:36:54 AM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
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« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2013, 12:48:25 AM »

Why are people here so easily offended when their faith is challenged and asked forward to verification? Why are they so against reasoning the beliefs of the Church? Where did this heretical trend came from in this forum?

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« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2013, 04:50:51 AM »

Why are people here so easily offended when their faith is challenged and asked forward to verification? Why are they so against reasoning the beliefs of the Church? Where did this heretical trend came from in this forum?

It's because of people like me. Alas, this is the price we all must pay for the gift of snark.

But really, people are hardly easily offended around here, save a few.

Virtual, people don't agree with you. And what you think is radically salient apologetics has been heard by some folks here about ten thousand times. So forgive them if they find your crypto proselytizing unimpressive.

Me, I just want you make me laugh once in a while. Either with or at.

Wut?
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« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2013, 12:58:42 PM »

Why are they so against reasoning the beliefs of the Church? 

Because we are not Roman Catholics.  Our beliefs are a Faith, not something to be measured by Man's fallen and imperfect reason.  It is too much reasoning about the Faith that caused the Roman Church to go into heresy.

Denying any sort of reasoning is an extremist flaw.
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« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2013, 12:58:42 PM »

Well, I believe its a form of dissonance.  It's easier to attack somebody than to rationally see another person's point of view and evidence.

If you give biblical evidence and early Christian tradition, and pit it up against the EO worship/liturgy/practices, you are going to be attacked.  (often a group ensues) It's an odd form of cyber bullying as you'll be ganged up on (often) faster than you can respond.   See this commonly occurs in internet chat rooms.   Funny thing is I've witnessed this stuff for over 20 years now that I've been online.  Time and time again I've witnessed chat rooms and forums go against a certain individual that thinks differently than the "grain" of the chat room/forum.   The funniest thing is when they start the berating and you know exactly what they are doing.  Basically at that point, the psychosis ensues and you know full well what is happening.  Since then you basically 'sit back', it makes you feel like a troll.... But when you go back to your original post, you see there was nothing trollish in it.  LOL.   It's actually funny and amazing sometimes.  It's like "how did I get into a conversation about rubber ducks, when I began the thread about pouring concrete??"

Answering in a mean fashion is a defense mechanism and also a mechanism of frustration.  It can also be a way that somebody makes themselves feel better as void exists in their lives (such as loneliness, depression, etc.).   If one is making "elementary points" which would make somebody question the IQ of the poster, you can get mean answers as well, but not often to the point of outright insulting ones.  

Another form of dissonance is to reject somebody based on labels.   For instance, I have vast Eastern Orthodox experience.  My Father (parent) is an ordained Eastern Orthodox Priest.  I've attended St. Vlad's (dropped out) and was Eastern Orthodox for more years than many posters on this forum have been alive.  But EO is about 100% EO, or NOT EO.   There is not a gray area.  

Also you have to really watch out and not make the mistake/accidently posting in the wrong section with certain topics/answers, as that can trigger other issues.

The thing is you have to articulate your questions and statements with respect.   Religion and Politics... the two things my Grandmother will never talk about....  Why?  because they bring in heated debate.   There are mature posters on here however, that will agree or disagree with you in a respectful manner.  They are people who wish to engage in dialog or debate, while respecting you as another person who just wants to make it to salvation/heaven.

Also remember this as it is most important - it is easier to be cruel to an avatar/graphics/text.  People could heavily dislike my theological POV.   But if they were at my home having supper and we were talking about cars/telescopes/government/finance/art/homesteading/farming we most certainly would get along.   Many don't see the parent that you are, the husband/wife that you are, or the hard work you put into your life.  They don't see the stacks of books your read or your other interests.  (For instance we have 90 eggs in our incubator right now, 10 are wobbling about to hatch!!!)

Anyhow, this is my take on it.  Been in some heated debate before.   Still not resolved... But meh who knows.

Thanks, you are right with the most you said. There is no such thing as a 100% Orthodox because Orthodoxy is not 100% officialised. So you will find Orthodox having different oppinions on different aspects. This is a proselyte thing. They think there is a 100% Orthodoxy. They become so caught up in their discovered faith that they think that Orthodoxy is an outline form of letterism. Orthodoxy is not that, and they have been lead badely if they think so. Orthodoxy is about the essence, not about some dull legalism and forms of the dogmas(letterism). It is this proselytes (either converted or cradle orthodox) that get offended every time someone tries to get to the essence and truth of Orthodoxy. It is them that are stuck in the letter and dull forms. It is them that have a bad faith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_faith) . This people are "Orthodox" and not Orthodox.. They are formal Orthodox, rites centred and stuck on the letter of the dogmas.. They are legalistic , letteristic and fallen in the same error as the pharisees or even greater. So now that you have seen this, every time you see this behaviour know that most likely the person implicated in it is probably an "Orthodox" and not an Orthodox. The letter kills , the spirit is that gives life.

 
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« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2013, 11:55:26 PM »

Well, I believe its a form of dissonance.  It's easier to attack somebody than to rationally see another person's point of view and evidence.

If you give biblical evidence and early Christian tradition, and pit it up against the EO worship/liturgy/practices, you are going to be attacked.  (often a group ensues) It's an odd form of cyber bullying as you'll be ganged up on (often) faster than you can respond.   See this commonly occurs in internet chat rooms.   Funny thing is I've witnessed this stuff for over 20 years now that I've been online.  Time and time again I've witnessed chat rooms and forums go against a certain individual that thinks differently than the "grain" of the chat room/forum.   The funniest thing is when they start the berating and you know exactly what they are doing.  Basically at that point, the psychosis ensues and you know full well what is happening.  Since then you basically 'sit back', it makes you feel like a troll.... But when you go back to your original post, you see there was nothing trollish in it.  LOL.   It's actually funny and amazing sometimes.  It's like "how did I get into a conversation about rubber ducks, when I began the thread about pouring concrete??"

Answering in a mean fashion is a defense mechanism and also a mechanism of frustration.  It can also be a way that somebody makes themselves feel better as void exists in their lives (such as loneliness, depression, etc.).   If one is making "elementary points" which would make somebody question the IQ of the poster, you can get mean answers as well, but not often to the point of outright insulting ones.  

Another form of dissonance is to reject somebody based on labels.   For instance, I have vast Eastern Orthodox experience.  My Father (parent) is an ordained Eastern Orthodox Priest.  I've attended St. Vlad's (dropped out) and was Eastern Orthodox for more years than many posters on this forum have been alive.  But EO is about 100% EO, or NOT EO.   There is not a gray area.  

Also you have to really watch out and not make the mistake/accidently posting in the wrong section with certain topics/answers, as that can trigger other issues.

The thing is you have to articulate your questions and statements with respect.   Religion and Politics... the two things my Grandmother will never talk about....  Why?  because they bring in heated debate.   There are mature posters on here however, that will agree or disagree with you in a respectful manner.  They are people who wish to engage in dialog or debate, while respecting you as another person who just wants to make it to salvation/heaven.

Also remember this as it is most important - it is easier to be cruel to an avatar/graphics/text.  People could heavily dislike my theological POV.   But if they were at my home having supper and we were talking about cars/telescopes/government/finance/art/homesteading/farming we most certainly would get along.   Many don't see the parent that you are, the husband/wife that you are, or the hard work you put into your life.  They don't see the stacks of books your read or your other interests.  (For instance we have 90 eggs in our incubator right now, 10 are wobbling about to hatch!!!)

Anyhow, this is my take on it.  Been in some heated debate before.   Still not resolved... But meh who knows.

Thanks, you are right with the most you said. There is no such thing as a 100% Orthodox because Orthodoxy is not 100% officialised. So you will find Orthodox having different oppinions on different aspects. This is a proselyte thing. They think there is a 100% Orthodoxy. They become so caught up in their discovered faith that they think that Orthodoxy is an outline form of letterism. Orthodoxy is not that, and they have been lead badely if they think so. Orthodoxy is about the essence, not about some dull legalism and forms of the dogmas(letterism). It is this proselytes (either converted or cradle orthodox) that get offended every time someone tries to get to the essence and truth of Orthodoxy. It is them that are stuck in the letter and dull forms. It is them that have a bad faith (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_faith) . This people are "Orthodox" and not Orthodox.. They are formal Orthodox, rites centred and stuck on the letter of the dogmas.. They are legalistic , letteristic and fallen in the same error as the pharisees or even greater. So now that you have seen this, every time you see this behaviour know that most likely the person implicated in it is probably an "Orthodox" and not an Orthodox. The letter kills , the spirit is that gives life.

 

Well, my thoughts are that the Eastern Orthodox "know exactly" who they are and that the faith does have incredibly valid apologetics.  It also mirrors much of the traditions and thought of the earliest Christians.

There are issues which I have brought up over time that were not part of original Christianity at all...  Some responses are willing dialogs, some hostile, and some diverting.

The issue you have to ask yourself is 'what are you trying to accomplish'?   

For me, I'm seeking dialog to questions to make sure or reinforce my "leave" of the church.

Hostility is normal in outrage (is outrage! LOL) or somebody is challenged.   For me I fully understand the Orthodox way of thinking, liturgical practice, and understand the beauty & very powerful prayers within the faith.  This is what makes some of the questions/accusations I ask painful.  Plus I have been 'hurt' in the faith because it felt turned upside down on my head from witnessing ecumenism which many of the bishops are still involved in.   

But you should always try to be respectful, even if you are not treated respectfully.
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