Author Topic: The Cosmos?  (Read 10141 times)

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Offline sheenj

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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #45 on: April 25, 2013, 09:13:15 PM »
The orbit of the stars around the pole over a period of several hours froma time exposed camera:
http://www.fixedearth.com/Size_and_Structure%20Part%20IV.htm
http://rocketroberts.com/astro/circum.htm



Congratulations, you've proven that the Earth is round and rotates around the North-South Pole axis.

The center of the circle of stars always points to one of the two poles. Look at the pictures he took facing North-east and East, the circles are still centered around Polaris facing North.

Offline Dionysii

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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #46 on: April 25, 2013, 09:38:52 PM »
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

Offline Dionysii

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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #47 on: April 25, 2013, 09:40:25 PM »
"A single reproof entereth more into a wise man than an hundred stripes into a fool."

- Proverbs 17:10
« Last Edit: April 25, 2013, 09:40:42 PM by Dionysii »

Offline sheenj

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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #48 on: April 25, 2013, 09:42:43 PM »
Let me ask you something, why are all those circles centered around one of the poles? If the World was flat, wouldn't the circles be oriented directly overhead?
« Last Edit: April 25, 2013, 09:45:49 PM by sheenj »

Offline Dionysii

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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #49 on: April 25, 2013, 10:17:43 PM »
Let me ask you something, why are all those circles centered around one of the poles? If the World was flat, wouldn't the circles be oriented directly overhead?

I feel like I've thrown pearls to swine.

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #50 on: April 25, 2013, 10:23:14 PM »
What on earth is going on?

They were serving "crazy" down at the "from the Old Country" Buffet tonite?

Offline sheenj

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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #51 on: April 25, 2013, 10:27:15 PM »
Let me ask you something, why are all those circles centered around one of the poles? If the World was flat, wouldn't the circles be oriented directly overhead?

I feel like I've thrown pearls to swine.

It's just a question...

Offline Dionysii

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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #52 on: April 26, 2013, 02:53:40 AM »
An intriguing fact about Apollo is its apparent association with the outspoken Nazi Charles Lindbergh who had worked for Air Force generals Chiefs of Staff ever since his Nazi friends had lost World War II.  Lindbergh began an active interest in the Apollo program at least as early as 1968 when he became peronally involved with the Apollo crew members.  Since Lindbergh became friends with astronaut Michael Collins and was involved in Collins' autobiography for which he authored the foreward, Lindbergh perhaps used his friendship with Apollo crew members to prevent incovenient facts from becoming public.  Lindbergh's involvement with NASA's is not surprising considering that NASA was founded by Nazi Werner von Braun.

NASA founder Werner von Braun with Himmler


Aviator Charles Lindbergh receives Nazi Medal from Field Marshall Goering


A little known fact about Charles Lindbergh is that he was already present at the site of the famous Roswell UFO incident of 7 July 1947.
I believe this incident to have been a hoax, and Lindbergh's presence as testified to by a contemporary newspaper is noteworthy.

Affidavit of Earl Zimmerman about Charles Lindbergh at Roswell
http://www.roswellproof.com/zimmerman.html

The Roswell incident was evidently a litmus test of public reaction engineered by the military who had other deceptions such as space travel in mind.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 03:00:21 AM by Dionysii »

Offline ialmisry

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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #53 on: April 26, 2013, 08:29:27 AM »
The orbit of the stars around the pole over a period of several hours froma time exposed camera:
http://www.fixedearth.com/Size_and_Structure%20Part%20IV.htm
http://rocketroberts.com/astro/circum.htm



Congratulations, you've proven that the Earth is round and rotates around the North-South Pole axis.

The center of the circle of stars always points to one of the two poles. Look at the pictures he took facing North-east and East, the circles are still centered around Polaris facing North.
Come to think of it, isn't it a problem for a flat earth to have two different sets of constellations in the two hemispheres?  And for that matter, the fact that we are entering Spiring, while Australia is entering Fall, something that can be verified by a single long distance plane ride of all of a day?
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Offline Fabio Leite

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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #54 on: April 26, 2013, 08:42:57 AM »
I can witness it's Fall here in the South and the Southern Cross still shows up in the skies at night. :)
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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #55 on: April 26, 2013, 11:05:05 AM »
"Faith and Science", a lecture by His Grace, Bishop Gregory of the ACROD, presented at St. Mary's Orthodox Church, Morgantown, WVA on March 2, 2013 at the Orthodox Christian Fellowship retreat held at West Virginia University, Morgantown, West Virginia. His Grace is a published biologist, having spent twenty years in cardiac/biologica research in North Carolina, prior to entering Holy Cross Seminary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hj4sIpQDmGE

Offline Dionysii

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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #56 on: April 26, 2013, 11:18:57 AM »
Come to think of it, isn't it a problem for a flat earth to have two different sets of constellations in the two hemispheres?
No.  Different stars pass over Argentina than passover Norway, but so what?

There is no southern pole star.
Perhaps you will claim that a faint star named Sigma Octantis forms some kind of an axis with the North Star.
Let's give you the benefit of the doubt and assume this is the case.
It is still the stars themselves which rotate - not the earth which is motionless.  

EDIT: The classification of stars into two sets and the world into two hemispheres is an artificial classification.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 11:38:20 AM by Dionysii »

Offline NightOwl

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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #57 on: April 26, 2013, 11:32:11 AM »
What would a "flat earth" look like from space?

Offline Iconodule

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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #58 on: April 26, 2013, 11:33:19 AM »
What would a "flat earth" look like from space?

From the Flat Earth Society's wiki:



That white ring around the edge is Antarctica, which they say is not a continent to the South but a wall of ice surrounding the entire earth.

"Beyond the ice wall is a topic of great interest to the Flat Earth Society. To our knowledge, no one has been very far past the ice wall and returned to tell of their journey. What we do know is that it encircles the earth and serves to hold in our oceans and helps protect us from whatever lies beyond."
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 11:34:45 AM by Iconodule »
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Offline Dionysii

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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #59 on: April 26, 2013, 11:41:24 AM »
The configuration of that map seems to be based on a world map drawn circa 1703 by Heinrich Scherer.
It does depict the entire known world on a flat surface, but it is devoid of some characteristics inherent in early Christian geography.

Offline NightOwl

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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #60 on: April 26, 2013, 11:42:04 AM »
Sounds like a good setting for a science fiction novel... what about the other side? And isn't it problematic that SE Asia and Australia are completely morphed?

Offline Iconodule

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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #61 on: April 26, 2013, 11:50:08 AM »
Sounds like a good setting for a science fiction novel... what about the other side? And isn't it problematic that SE Asia and Australia are completely morphed?

Well, we round-earthers know that Australia couldn't even exist because the people would just fall off.
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #62 on: April 26, 2013, 11:50:31 AM »
The configuration of that map seems to be based on a world map drawn circa 1703 by Heinrich Scherer.
It does depict the entire known world on a flat surface, but it is devoid of some characteristics inherent in early Christian geography.


Just to blow my mind, is there any chance you hold to a strict scriptural interpretation of cosmology, but believe in some sort of "evolution". I am not looking to derail the thread or argue, I am just wondering.

Thank you for your thorough replies. I can't imagine what it must be like to exist in a world where nearly everything everyone else thinks about the general make up of the cosmos is at odds with your own.
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #63 on: April 26, 2013, 11:52:08 AM »
Oh Dionysii,

Did you say you served in the US military on a sub (probably better to be in it I guess)?
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #64 on: April 26, 2013, 11:54:36 AM »
Perhaps the UN will usher sanity back into the world:

Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.

Offline Dionysii

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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #65 on: April 26, 2013, 11:54:42 AM »
isn't it problematic that SE Asia and Australia are completely morphed?

I agree.  Both the Scherer model and the maps of Cosmas and the ones which Iamisry posted are models.
These are models aiming to give some impression of the entire forest and not the details of the trees, so to speak.
  
Neither do perfectly spherical globes portray the globular world which in which many believe which is slightly flattened at the poles according to the current trend.

Likewise, atomic structure is a model formulated by Lord Ernest Rutherford in order to understand chemical/nuclear reactions.
It would be a mistake to assume that atoms actually exist.

The Case Against the Nuclear Atom
By Dewey Larson
http://www.reciprocalsystem.com/cana/index.htm
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 12:03:41 PM by Dionysii »

Offline Dionysii

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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #66 on: April 26, 2013, 12:00:22 PM »
Oh Dionysii,

Did you say you served in the US military on a sub (probably better to be in it I guess)?

I am not an evolutionist by any stretch.
The book 'In the Minds of Men' by Ian Taylor summarizes my attitude towards biological evolution and geological uniformitarianism.
I believe in creation, and I am a catastrophist with regard to geology.  In other words, I believe the flood of Noah covered the entire world.
http://www.creationism.org/books/TaylorInMindsMen/

Yes, I was a submarine yeoman (secretary).  
My other duties during that time included helmsman underway and lookout while surfaced.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 12:02:43 PM by Dionysii »

Offline orthonorm

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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #67 on: April 26, 2013, 12:01:28 PM »
Neither do perfectly spherical globes portray the globular world which in which many believe which is slightly flattened at the poles according to the current trend.

I remember one of the first fun words I learned in school in about third grade, oblate ellipsoid. We were discussing the shape of the earth.

I think oblate spheroid is more precise, I dunno.

Endoplasmic reticulum soon followed.

Both of these words raised the game of horse to a whole new level.
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #68 on: April 26, 2013, 12:04:12 PM »
Yes, I was a submarine yeoman (secretary).  
My other duties during that time included helmsman underway and lookout while surfaced.

I took only small "trip" in a sub once. I was a kid and even then I couldn't imagine living in such quarters. Knew a guy who was a mechanic on subs for his entire life. Fascinating stories he had to tell.

In any case, thanks for your service to the country.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 12:04:34 PM by orthonorm »
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Offline Dionysii

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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #69 on: April 26, 2013, 12:11:39 PM »
I took a tour of a Russian submarine which was briefly in Seattle.
I also visited a Turkish sub in Istanbul which is now a permanent exihibit on the Golden Horne.

A Turkish submarine Chief who had been in the Cyprus wars gave the tour.
I'd love to go back there.  Constantinople is second to none for a honeymoon, and I've become a bit of a Turkophile.

Offline CoptoGeek

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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #70 on: April 26, 2013, 12:17:33 PM »
Sounds like a good setting for a science fiction novel... what about the other side? And isn't it problematic that SE Asia and Australia are completely morphed?

Well, we round-earthers know that Australia couldn't even exist because the people would just fall off.

Here, here. This so-called "law of gravity" is the greatest fraud ever perpetrated on humanity.
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #71 on: April 26, 2013, 12:20:13 PM »
  Constantinople is second to none for a honeymoon,

Unfortunately when my wife and I went for our honeymoon, it was in the middle of a heat wave. It was ridiculously hot (100+ degrees fahrenheit) and humid every day. We kept saying, "This would be awesome if we weren't bathing in our own sweat." We still had good times though.
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Offline Dionysii

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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #72 on: April 26, 2013, 12:37:43 PM »
  Constantinople is second to none for a honeymoon,

Unfortunately when my wife and I went for our honeymoon, it was in the middle of a heat wave. It was ridiculously hot (100+ degrees fahrenheit) and humid every day. We kept saying, "This would be awesome if we weren't bathing in our own sweat." We still had good times though.
We'll try to go in the winter.
Did you take a ferry out to the Princes' Islands?  I spent a day on the Greek one including a visit to the monastery there.
There is a powerful telescope in the bar on the top floor of the tall hotel in Galata from which you can see all the way out to Princes' Islands as well as an awesome view of the Hagia Sophia.  A Turkish carpet store across from the hotel in Sultanamet had an extensive underground consisting of several rooms of Justinian's palace. Lot of underground stuff there.

I was able to afford a side trip to Trabizond and Soumela monastery on the Black Sea coast.
God willing, we'll to take a side trip to Cappadocia the next time.

Offline Papist

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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #73 on: April 26, 2013, 01:12:32 PM »
Sounds like a good setting for a science fiction novel... what about the other side? And isn't it problematic that SE Asia and Australia are completely morphed?
How do they deal with how shadows form differently at different locations, but at the same time?
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #74 on: April 26, 2013, 01:24:56 PM »
An intriguing fact about Apollo is its apparent association with the outspoken Nazi Charles Lindbergh who had worked for Air Force generals Chiefs of Staff ever since his Nazi friends had lost World War II.  Lindbergh began an active interest in the Apollo program at least as early as 1968 when he became peronally involved with the Apollo crew members.  Since Lindbergh became friends with astronaut Michael Collins and was involved in Collins' autobiography for which he authored the foreward, Lindbergh perhaps used his friendship with Apollo crew members to prevent incovenient facts from becoming public.  Lindbergh's involvement with NASA's is not surprising considering that NASA was founded by Nazi Werner von Braun.

NASA founder Werner von Braun with Himmler


Aviator Charles Lindbergh receives Nazi Medal from Field Marshall Goering


A little known fact about Charles Lindbergh is that he was already present at the site of the famous Roswell UFO incident of 7 July 1947.
I believe this incident to have been a hoax, and Lindbergh's presence as testified to by a contemporary newspaper is noteworthy.

Affidavit of Earl Zimmerman about Charles Lindbergh at Roswell
http://www.roswellproof.com/zimmerman.html

The Roswell incident was evidently a litmus test of public reaction engineered by the military who had other deceptions such as space travel in mind.

We should believe in a flat earth because the Apollo program was founded by Nazis. This has to be the most entertaining application of Godwin's Law.

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #75 on: April 26, 2013, 01:40:59 PM »
Best. Thread. Ever.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #76 on: April 26, 2013, 01:48:31 PM »
What would a "flat earth" look like from space?

From the Flat Earth Society's wiki:



That white ring around the edge is Antarctica, which they say is not a continent to the South but a wall of ice surrounding the entire earth.

"Beyond the ice wall is a topic of great interest to the Flat Earth Society. To our knowledge, no one has been very far past the ice wall and returned to tell of their journey. What we do know is that it encircles the earth and serves to hold in our oceans and helps protect us from whatever lies beyond."
Isn't it a little problematic that you can go around Antarctica far faster than this "map" would suggest?  Far faster than it would take to go across the Pacific, which is smaller here.
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #77 on: April 26, 2013, 01:54:29 PM »
What would a "flat earth" look like from space?

From the Flat Earth Society's wiki:



That white ring around the edge is Antarctica, which they say is not a continent to the South but a wall of ice surrounding the entire earth.

"Beyond the ice wall is a topic of great interest to the Flat Earth Society. To our knowledge, no one has been very far past the ice wall and returned to tell of their journey. What we do know is that it encircles the earth and serves to hold in our oceans and helps protect us from whatever lies beyond."
Isn't it a little problematic that you can go around Antarctica far faster than this "map" would suggest?  Far faster than it would take to go across the Pacific, which is smaller here.

I don't know what you're talking about. Last time people tried to plumb the secrets of the vast Antarctic waste, it didn't go so well.

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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #78 on: April 26, 2013, 02:00:26 PM »
Best. Thread. Ever.

Yeah.

Sounds like a good setting for a science fiction novel... what about the other side?



isn't it problematic that SE Asia and Australia are completely morphed?

I agree.  Both the Scherer model and the maps of Cosmas and the ones which Iamisry posted are models.
These are models aiming to give some impression of the entire forest and not the details of the trees, so to speak.

You say the Earth is flat. So how can one fail to properly show flat Earth on flat map?

Quote
Neither do perfectly spherical globes portray the globular world which in which many believe which is slightly flattened at the poles according to the current trend.

Lognest radius is 3‰ longer than the shortest one (of course you don't believe in them). The difference is hardly noticeable on such small scales.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 02:01:39 PM by Michał Kalina »

Offline ialmisry

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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #79 on: April 26, 2013, 02:00:42 PM »
Come to think of it, isn't it a problem for a flat earth to have two different sets of constellations in the two hemispheres?
No.  Different stars pass over Argentina than passover Norway, but so what?

There is no southern pole star.
Perhaps you will claim that a faint star named Sigma Octantis forms some kind of an axis with the North Star.
Let's give you the benefit of the doubt and assume this is the case.
It is still the stars themselves which rotate - not the earth which is motionless.  

EDIT: The classification of stars into two sets and the world into two hemispheres is an artificial classification.

Yes and no.  Out in space, it doesn't exist.  But here on earth.

Btw, those different stars give you a different picture than that you produced:


Who is on top and down under, of course, is an artificial determination

btw, if the Ancient Egyptians survived and wrote the maps instead of the heirs of the Greeks, this what it would look like: all Egyptian maps have the south (the source of the Nile) on top.
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Offline mike

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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #80 on: April 26, 2013, 02:02:47 PM »
Who is on top and down under, of course, is an artificial determination

btw, if the Ancient Egyptians survived and wrote the maps instead of the heirs of the Greeks, this what it would look like: all Egyptian maps have the south (the source of the Nile) on top.

« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 02:05:36 PM by Michał Kalina »

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #81 on: April 26, 2013, 02:07:13 PM »
flat and round do not exist, they are mental constructs.  The true shape of the cosmos is a tesseract.

Stars are also figments of our imagination.  Either that or small tears in the floor of heaven letting light through.
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Offline Romaios

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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #82 on: April 26, 2013, 02:11:42 PM »
flat and round do not exist, they are mental constructs. 

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Offline ialmisry

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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #83 on: April 26, 2013, 02:12:14 PM »
I don't know what you're talking about. Last time people tried to plumb the secrets of the vast Antarctic waste, it didn't go so well.


It's that where they got that intelligent carrot?
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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #84 on: April 26, 2013, 02:30:28 PM »
What would a "flat earth" look like from space?



What is it that keeps the water from the oceans from going over the edges?  (Reminds me of some graffiti I once saw in a bar in Eugene, Oregon--"There is no gravity-the earth sucks.") 8)
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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #85 on: April 26, 2013, 02:33:52 PM »

Offline Fabio Leite

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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #86 on: April 26, 2013, 02:44:16 PM »
If the Earth were flat shouldn't powerful telescopes pointed at the horizon be able to show places that are impossible to see under round-earth?
There is no such a thing as holly bullies. Not for "holy imperialism", not for the sake of unionist ecumenism.

Offline Shiny

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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #87 on: April 26, 2013, 02:52:21 PM »
The earth will be flat after the resurrection of the dead.

It will take precisely 33 years to accomplish this feat; which is the length of time to undue 6 days worth of creation.
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

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Offline Romaios

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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #88 on: April 26, 2013, 02:57:49 PM »

Offline Dionysii

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Re: The Cosmos?
« Reply #89 on: April 26, 2013, 03:09:29 PM »
Where the Ganges comes from

It actually issues from a cave in the Himalayas called Gomukh.  I have been there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gomukh


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXZ64fV1iAE

Cosmas Indicopleustes writes that the four rivers of the Garden of Eden flow westward underground and resurface in the habitable parts of the world.