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Author Topic: Dating/Marrying Non-Orthodox Christians. Thoughts?  (Read 2861 times) Average Rating: 0
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Faith2545
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« on: March 16, 2013, 11:33:17 AM »

I am very proud of my faith and consider myself devout. I've always said I'd marry an (Greek) Orthodox Christian, only because it would mean a great deal to me to raise my family according to how I believe. However, living in a multicultural city, finding such a person has become virtually impossible for me (let alone finding a nice person.) I can't see myself lowering my standards just to 'settle,' and get married, however, if I don't then do I risk being alone for the rest of my life? I don't think God wants me to be lonely and alone. But why hasn't it happened for me yet?

Do I give in and just date 'anyone?" Personally, I would only consider Catholics. But I still don't want to do that. What are your opinions regarding marrying outside our faith?
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« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2013, 11:36:06 AM »

Are you saying that you're worried about marrying a non-Greek Orthodox?  Or an OO?  Or a Catholic/Protestant?  Or someone who doesn't know Christ?

I think there's little issue with the first, and probably with the 2nd.  The 3rd gets dicey; seems imprudent, frankly.  And the 4th is just right out unless you want to be unequally yoked to someone who may never have the same faith as you.


Marriage is difficult enough without disparity of worship.  My $0.02 as a married guy with several kids.
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Faith2545
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« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2013, 11:40:04 AM »

Yes my fear is marrying non-Orthodox Christians. I said I would consider Catholics only. But I'm still reluctant to even do that. And no, I would never marry anyone who's Prottestant or any other group 'claiming' any belief in Christ.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 11:41:54 AM by Faith2545 » Logged
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« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2013, 11:44:27 AM »

Others may jump in, but as a Catholic myself I would say that a mixed marriage (Orthodox/Catholic) is problematic.  Heck, even an Orthodox/Orthodox marriage if they can't be willing to use the same calendar (New vs. Old) would be a major impediment to family unity.  When do you celebrate Easter?  My Easter is March 31st; what if my wife's was in May?  Will she be feasting when I'm fasting and vice versa?

There's just too much differential there.  In my case, my wife had to change rite from Western to Eastern Catholic.  If she had not been willing, I would not have married her.

It's sometimes difficult to express to single young folks just how difficult it is to keep marriages together in modern society, AND then it's even more difficult to have a Christ-centered family life on top of that.  Any differences in belief will make for a difficult challenge.... unless both people just don't care.  Which, ironically, works pretty well in this world, not so much in the next.   Embarrassed
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Faith2545
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« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2013, 11:49:21 AM »

Others may jump in, but as a Catholic myself I would say that a mixed marriage (Orthodox/Catholic) is problematic.  Heck, even an Orthodox/Orthodox marriage if they can't be willing to use the same calendar (New vs. Old) would be a major impediment to family unity.  When do you celebrate Easter?  My Easter is March 31st; what if my wife's was in May?  Will she be feasting when I'm fasting and vice versa?

There's just too much differential there.  In my case, my wife had to change rite from Western to Eastern Catholic.  If she had not been willing, I would not have married her.

It's sometimes difficult to express to single young folks just how difficult it is to keep marriages together in modern society, AND then it's even more difficult to have a Christ-centered family life on top of that.  Any differences in belief will make for a difficult challenge.... unless both people just don't care.  Which, ironically, works pretty well in this world, not so much in the next.   Embarrassed

Yes, with all due respect, this is exactly what I want to avoid. But is that reason enough to stay single? I really want experience the Sacrament of Marriage - it means a lot to me - and to have children. Or else, I would have been a nun (no joke.) But the desire to be a wife and mother in a Orthodox sense is so important to me. I can't and wouldn't ignore this desire.
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« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2013, 12:04:42 PM »

Well, I refused to compromise on a wife even though it took me from the time I was 19 (yes, I was looking that young!) to almost the age of 30.

The key is to put God's will first in your life.  Although I would have been devastated had I not married, if it were God's will, what else can I do but submit to His will?  Jumping into a marriage with someone who I would be "unequally yoked" to would have ended in heartache for both of us.

It's a tough lesson, but our desires have to be subordinated to God's will.  Pray, pray fervently, pray with perseverance for a holy husband and, if God so desires, you are guaranteed that in the right time and right fashion it will become apparent.


In the meantime, I recommend dedicating yourself to zealous deeds:  prayer, fasting and charitable works.  Doing so will also increase your chances of finding a like-minded individual, so it's a little self-serving but I think God understands.  Wink
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 12:05:30 PM by orthros » Logged
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« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2013, 12:33:22 PM »

Well, I refused to compromise on a wife even though it took me from the time I was 19 (yes, I was looking that young!) to almost the age of 30.

The key is to put God's will first in your life.  Although I would have been devastated had I not married, if it were God's will, what else can I do but submit to His will?  Jumping into a marriage with someone who I would be "unequally yoked" to would have ended in heartache for both of us.

It's a tough lesson, but our desires have to be subordinated to God's will.  Pray, pray fervently, pray with perseverance for a holy husband and, if God so desires, you are guaranteed that in the right time and right fashion it will become apparent.


In the meantime, I recommend dedicating yourself to zealous deeds:  prayer, fasting and charitable works.  Doing so will also increase your chances of finding a like-minded individual, so it's a little self-serving but I think God understands.  Wink

Would you ever date people of a different faith?
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« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2013, 12:47:50 PM »

^  No.  I just think it's imprudent.  It's not a condemnation of the person but just a frank reality that dating should be for marriage.  And I wouldn't marry someone of a different faith because it tends to lead to indifferentism, usually on both parties' parts.  After all, a passionate Catholic married to a passionate Orthodox... how will the children be raised?  Will they see one parent as a heretic?  If not, how do you handle the truth without watering it down?  What about fasting and feasting days?  Will children follow the Christmas Fast with the mother or ignore it and eat meat throughout with the Father?


Life is difficult enough, and our souls easy enough to lose without adding unneeded temptations/distractions.
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« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2013, 01:11:23 PM »

I find this to be a depressing subject to think about. As a single guy in his mid 20s who's considering possible conversion to Orthodoxy, it seems that the chances of finding a like minded girl my age is pretty low. I live in the south, where Orthodoxy is pretty rare.
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« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2013, 01:33:35 PM »

God loves us, and if we seek first the kingdom of God, He will give us all the other things we need.

may He bless u all and lead you to the right partner / happy single life / monastery.

i am not being sarcastic; i had tea today with a happily single friend who is over 50, and we were blessed by the presence of a monk priest also (i don't like to guess the age of priests, they all look about 60, whether they are 40 or 80!). our group included a widowed lady and some young people who were single too.
i think i was the only married person there!
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Faith2545
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« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2013, 01:36:40 PM »

Well, I refused to compromise on a wife even though it took me from the time I was 19 (yes, I was looking that young!) to almost the age of 30.

The key is to put God's will first in your life.  Although I would have been devastated had I not married, if it were God's will, what else can I do but submit to His will?  Jumping into a marriage with someone who I would be "unequally yoked" to would have ended in heartache for both of us.

It's a tough lesson, but our desires have to be subordinated to God's will.  Pray, pray fervently, pray with perseverance for a holy husband and, if God so desires, you are guaranteed that in the right time and right fashion it will become apparent.


In the meantime, I recommend dedicating yourself to zealous deeds:  prayer, fasting and charitable works.  Doing so will also increase your chances of finding a like-minded individual, so it's a little self-serving but I think God understands.  Wink

Thank you for sharing your story. And advise. You helped me with percpective Smiley
I like to think I pray fervently with perserverance. To the Lord and the Virgin Mary morning and night. I have embraced Saints that help with 'finding' something, like a husband, like Saint Xenia, St. Phanourios, Saint Menas of Egypt, to name a few, since 3 years ago. I pray to them and I believe they hear me.

I just feel like I don't have an outlet. My church is full of married couples. I don't have friends that share my faith (those that do are married.) I'm the last one.

I always ask the Lord for direction, as well as a Godly spouse who will love Him first and then me. I'm in my mid thirties and it so hard to also avoid those who still see me 'single,' and as a woman the single status is so harsh on us socially.

I should fast more. Besides Easter & Christmas, and the fifteen days n August, I try very hard to keep the Wed/Fri fast. But I believe the Lord hears me. Look at all the stories we have in the Gospel - St Anna prayed long and hard for what she waited. Saint Elizabeth too, Saint Veronica....Saint Nektarios, another beloved saint of mine. I have so many on my side. I know they all help me!! I hope it's God's will for me to be a wife & mother...soon.
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« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2013, 01:38:54 PM »

I've given up.
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« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2013, 01:39:32 PM »

I've given up.

Given up on what?
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« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2013, 01:40:00 PM »


Hope.
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« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2013, 01:41:54 PM »

God loves us, and if we seek first the kingdom of God, He will give us all the other things we need.

may He bless u all and lead you to the right partner / happy single life / monastery.

i am not being sarcastic; i had tea today with a happily single friend who is over 50, and we were blessed by the presence of a monk priest also (i don't like to guess the age of priests, they all look about 60, whether they are 40 or 80!). our group included a widowed lady and some young people who were single too.
i think i was the only married person there!

Thank you so much for your post!! I wish I had a monastery near by, that I may pray to and visit as often as I could. I believe the Lord helps us all. I remember being in first grade and the teacher asking me what I wanted to be when I get older, and at first grade I said ' a mother!' I have no idea where that came from. I think the Lord must have put that desire in my heart. There's no way He won't fulfill it.
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Faith2545
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« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2013, 01:42:46 PM »


Aren;t you insulting the Lord this way?
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Cyrillic
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« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2013, 01:48:21 PM »


Ah well, that makes two of us.
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« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2013, 01:49:59 PM »

Well, I refused to compromise on a wife even though it took me from the time I was 19 (yes, I was looking that young!) to almost the age of 30.

The key is to put God's will first in your life.  Although I would have been devastated had I not married, if it were God's will, what else can I do but submit to His will?  Jumping into a marriage with someone who I would be "unequally yoked" to would have ended in heartache for both of us.

It's a tough lesson, but our desires have to be subordinated to God's will.  Pray, pray fervently, pray with perseverance for a holy husband and, if God so desires, you are guaranteed that in the right time and right fashion it will become apparent.


In the meantime, I recommend dedicating yourself to zealous deeds:  prayer, fasting and charitable works.  Doing so will also increase your chances of finding a like-minded individual, so it's a little self-serving but I think God understands.  Wink

Thank you for sharing your story. And advise. You helped me with percpective Smiley
I like to think I pray fervently with perserverance. To the Lord and the Virgin Mary morning and night. I have embraced Saints that help with 'finding' something, like a husband, like Saint Xenia, St. Phanourios, Saint Menas of Egypt, to name a few, since 3 years ago. I pray to them and I believe they hear me.

I just feel like I don't have an outlet. My church is full of married couples. I don't have friends that share my faith (those that do are married.) I'm the last one.

I always ask the Lord for direction, as well as a Godly spouse who will love Him first and then me. I'm in my mid thirties and it so hard to also avoid those who still see me 'single,' and as a woman the single status is so harsh on us socially.

I should fast more. Besides Easter & Christmas, and the fifteen days n August, I try very hard to keep the Wed/Fri fast. But I believe the Lord hears me. Look at all the stories we have in the Gospel - St Anna prayed long and hard for what she waited. Saint Elizabeth too, Saint Veronica....Saint Nektarios, another beloved saint of mine. I have so many on my side. I know they all help me!! I hope it's God's will for me to be a wife & mother...soon.
I prayed to St. Xenia for 2 years and met my now fiancée last summer at an Orthodox Youth conference (though we are in our early 20s). Just so happens that she had been devoted to St. Xenia as well. Wink  One excellent piece of advice I received from my priest was that we should pray to God to help us become prepared for our future spouse. It also helps to prayer for your future spouse as well.

I recall hearing a lecture from a different priest one time who encouraged all the single Orthodox to create a list of qualities they would like to look for in their future spouse and then be those things. If you want a spouse who loves the Church, then love and serve the Church the best way God directs you. If you want a spouse who cooks, or gardens, or any other thing, do those things and like will attract like. Granted, my fiancée and I don't have everything in common (which is completely fine), but we had specific things we were seeking in a potential mate that we decided to pursue ourselves and God brought us together. Smiley

Keep praying and don't give up. You're in my prayers.

In Christ,
Andrew
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« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2013, 01:51:11 PM »

Aren't you in your teens?  Huh

Come to the US. There are more single Orthodox women than you can shake a stick at!  Grin

In Christ,
Andrew
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« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2013, 01:56:10 PM »

Ask your priest and his wife for help finding a wife. Abbots are also a good resource when trying to find a wife.
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« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2013, 01:56:35 PM »

Aren't you in your teens?  Huh

Come to the US. There are more single Orthodox women than you can shake a stick at!  Grin

In Christ,
Andrew

I'd be horrible at those things and besides, no girl would be interested in me anyway. I'm not the most socially competent or good looking fellow out there. My interests are somewhat out of the mainstream and I'm shy when it comes to those sorts of things. So no, I think I'll pass.

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« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2013, 02:01:07 PM »

Well, I refused to compromise on a wife even though it took me from the time I was 19 (yes, I was looking that young!) to almost the age of 30.

The key is to put God's will first in your life.  Although I would have been devastated had I not married, if it were God's will, what else can I do but submit to His will?  Jumping into a marriage with someone who I would be "unequally yoked" to would have ended in heartache for both of us.

It's a tough lesson, but our desires have to be subordinated to God's will.  Pray, pray fervently, pray with perseverance for a holy husband and, if God so desires, you are guaranteed that in the right time and right fashion it will become apparent.


In the meantime, I recommend dedicating yourself to zealous deeds:  prayer, fasting and charitable works.  Doing so will also increase your chances of finding a like-minded individual, so it's a little self-serving but I think God understands.  Wink

Thank you for sharing your story. And advise. You helped me with percpective Smiley
I like to think I pray fervently with perserverance. To the Lord and the Virgin Mary morning and night. I have embraced Saints that help with 'finding' something, like a husband, like Saint Xenia, St. Phanourios, Saint Menas of Egypt, to name a few, since 3 years ago. I pray to them and I believe they hear me.

I just feel like I don't have an outlet. My church is full of married couples. I don't have friends that share my faith (those that do are married.) I'm the last one.

I always ask the Lord for direction, as well as a Godly spouse who will love Him first and then me. I'm in my mid thirties and it so hard to also avoid those who still see me 'single,' and as a woman the single status is so harsh on us socially.

I should fast more. Besides Easter & Christmas, and the fifteen days n August, I try very hard to keep the Wed/Fri fast. But I believe the Lord hears me. Look at all the stories we have in the Gospel - St Anna prayed long and hard for what she waited. Saint Elizabeth too, Saint Veronica....Saint Nektarios, another beloved saint of mine. I have so many on my side. I know they all help me!! I hope it's God's will for me to be a wife & mother...soon.
I prayed to St. Xenia for 2 years and met my now fiancée last summer at an Orthodox Youth conference (though we are in our early 20s). Just so happens that she had been devoted to St. Xenia as well. Wink  One excellent piece of advice I received from my priest was that we should pray to God to help us become prepared for our future spouse. It also helps to prayer for your future spouse as well.

I recall hearing a lecture from a different priest one time who encouraged all the single Orthodox to create a list of qualities they would like to look for in their future spouse and then be those things. If you want a spouse who loves the Church, then love and serve the Church the best way God directs you. If you want a spouse who cooks, or gardens, or any other thing, do those things and like will attract like. Granted, my fiancée and I don't have everything in common (which is completely fine), but we had specific things we were seeking in a potential mate that we decided to pursue ourselves and God brought us together. Smiley

Keep praying and don't give up. You're in my prayers.

In Christ,
Andrew

Thank you for sharing your story! I'm so happy St Xenia helped you! God Bless!! I will continue to pray to her as I do.

That advise the priest gave you is great, thanks for letting me know. Though I believe I am praying along those lines too, I will improve my prayers and be more alert in the things I do. I often pray to st. Xenia by simply talking to her - is that okay? Or must we recite prayers of some kind?
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« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2013, 02:06:19 PM »

Aren't you in your teens?  Huh

Come to the US. There are more single Orthodox women than you can shake a stick at!  Grin

In Christ,
Andrew

Really? Where?
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« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2013, 02:07:13 PM »

Aren't you in your teens?  Huh

Come to the US. There are more single Orthodox women than you can shake a stick at!  Grin

In Christ,
Andrew

I'd be horrible at those things and besides, no girl would be interested in me anyway. I'm not the most socially competent or good looking fellow out there. My interests are somewhat out of the mainstream and I'm shy when it comes to those sorts of things. So no, I think I'll pass.



Sorry  Cry
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« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2013, 02:08:43 PM »

cyrillic, most socially incompetent people i know are married.
 Wink
faith 2545, i am nowhere near a monastery, i just turned up for church today (was by myself today) and there was this visiting monk priest! all the people who were hanging out looking for something to do (7 of us) ended up in a local coffee shop together (seeking social competence, no doubt!) and the priest was able to join us.

what i would say to all boring married people like myself is: 'hang out with single people, don't get into a boring married clique!', and to single people: 'married people are often looking for friends and baby sitters, don't sideline them!'
psalm 67:7 (68:6) explains that God settles the solitary in a house, and in verse 6 He is described as the Father of orphans.
lets be the family of God and embrace the lonely in our communities.
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« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2013, 02:25:34 PM »


Sorry  Cry

I've come to terms with it over the years, I think. But you shouldn't lose hope angel
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« Reply #26 on: March 16, 2013, 02:29:34 PM »

Aren't you in your teens?  Huh

Come to the US. There are more single Orthodox women than you can shake a stick at!  Grin

In Christ,
Andrew

I'd be horrible at those things and besides, no girl would be interested in me anyway. I'm not the most socially competent or good looking fellow out there. My interests are somewhat out of the mainstream and I'm shy when it comes to those sorts of things. So no, I think I'll pass.
Trust me, some girls/women are into some of the out of the mainstream.  Just be into the mainstream enough to get a conversation going, then show them the glories of the non-mainstream.  This may work best on artistic women, nerdy women, and possibly very educated women.
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« Reply #27 on: March 16, 2013, 02:33:22 PM »

Aren't you in your teens?  Huh

Come to the US. There are more single Orthodox women than you can shake a stick at!  Grin

In Christ,
Andrew

I'd be horrible at those things and besides, no girl would be interested in me anyway. I'm not the most socially competent or good looking fellow out there. My interests are somewhat out of the mainstream and I'm shy when it comes to those sorts of things. So no, I think I'll pass.


LOL. You haven't met me IRL. I'd make you look charismatic. Don't lose heart. You've got a good while yet. Smiley

In Christ,
Andrew
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« Reply #28 on: March 16, 2013, 02:34:32 PM »

Aren't you in your teens?  Huh

Come to the US. There are more single Orthodox women than you can shake a stick at!  Grin

In Christ,
Andrew

Really? Where?
Every Orthodox youth conference ever. The ratio of women to me is at least 4:1 in my experience.

In Christ,
Andrew
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« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2013, 02:34:45 PM »


Sorry  Cry

I've come to terms with it over the years, I think. But you shouldn't lose hope angel

Over the years?? According to your profile you're only 18!   Huh
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« Reply #30 on: March 16, 2013, 02:39:38 PM »

I am very proud of my faith and consider myself devout. I've always said I'd marry an (Greek) Orthodox Christian, only because it would mean a great deal to me to raise my family according to how I believe. However, living in a multicultural city, finding such a person has become virtually impossible for me (let alone finding a nice person.) I can't see myself lowering my standards just to 'settle,' and get married, however, if I don't then do I risk being alone for the rest of my life? I don't think God wants me to be lonely and alone. But why hasn't it happened for me yet?

Do I give in and just date 'anyone?" Personally, I would only consider Catholics. But I still don't want to do that. What are your opinions regarding marrying outside our faith?
I have only ever dated Catholic and Protestant. I would like to date an Orthodox, but I suppose Catholic isn't too bad, as long as he understands then that my kids are being chrismated in the OO Church, and preferably Armenian, and not in the Catholic Church.  I don't have many single guy friends around my age who go to an Oriental Orthodox church, and for the longest time prior to converting, I always figured I would end up with a Catholic since we had similar values and world views.
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« Reply #31 on: March 16, 2013, 02:40:33 PM »

I find this to be a depressing subject to think about. As a single guy in his mid 20s who's considering possible conversion to Orthodoxy, it seems that the chances of finding a like minded girl my age is pretty low. I live in the south, where Orthodoxy is pretty rare.

Chances vary depending on what you mean by like-minded.
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« Reply #32 on: March 16, 2013, 02:42:22 PM »


Sorry  Cry

I've come to terms with it over the years, I think. But you shouldn't lose hope angel

Over the years?? According to your profile you're only 18!   Huh

I've held this sentiment since I was 12 or so and probably even earlier Smiley
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« Reply #33 on: March 16, 2013, 02:46:51 PM »


Sorry  Cry

I've come to terms with it over the years, I think. But you shouldn't lose hope angel

Over the years?? According to your profile you're only 18!   Huh

I've held this sentiment since I was 12 or so and probably even earlier:)

I'm 20 and haven't had a girlfriend, most of my friends aren't in relationships. You're throwing in the towel wayyy too soon.
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« Reply #34 on: March 16, 2013, 02:50:24 PM »


Sorry  Cry

I've come to terms with it over the years, I think. But you shouldn't lose hope angel

Over the years?? According to your profile you're only 18!   Huh
Ahh, children...
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« Reply #35 on: March 16, 2013, 02:56:57 PM »


Sorry  Cry

I've come to terms with it over the years, I think. But you shouldn't lose hope angel

Over the years?? According to your profile you're only 18!   Huh
Ahh, children...

Mmmm, ah, I see. That's motivating, somehow, I think.

My parents and my friends have come to the same conclusion as me anyway.
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« Reply #36 on: March 16, 2013, 02:58:46 PM »

I'm not even going to get involved in this because I know it won't end well. If I even say anything about why we shouldn't marry outside Orthodoxy, all the ecumenists will have a cow and flame me for pages.
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« Reply #37 on: March 16, 2013, 02:59:00 PM »


Every Orthodox youth conference ever. The ratio of women to me is at least 4:1 in my experience.

In Christ,
Andrew
[/quote]

Yeah, but those are youth conferences. Meant for teenagers, right? Or are there people in their mid 20's too at these gatherings?
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« Reply #38 on: March 16, 2013, 02:59:57 PM »

I'm not even going to get involved in this because I know it won't end well. If I even say anything about why we shouldn't marry outside Orthodoxy, all the ecumenists will have a cow and flame me for pages.

Aww, usually you don't have much problems with posts that outrage basically anyone, what happened?  Cheesy
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« Reply #39 on: March 16, 2013, 03:03:16 PM »


Quote from: Shlomokh
Every Orthodox youth conference ever. The ratio of women to me is at least 4:1 in my experience.

In Christ,
Andrew

Yeah, but those are youth conferences. Meant for teenagers, right? Or are there people in their mid 20's too at these gatherings?

In the GOARCH, the age range for their young adult ministry is 18-35.  I don't know what ministries exist after 35?  I'm pushing 40 and I couldn't imagine going out with a woman of any faith 15 years younger or older than me.
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« Reply #40 on: March 16, 2013, 03:07:08 PM »

Okay, what the hell, I'll say it. The purpose of an Orthodox marriage is to--in a mystical way--live out the relationship that Christ has with His Church and to raise up children via the family, which is an Icon of Christ's love. If your spouse is non-Orthodox, with no knowledge of the Church, then how could she possibly perform her will as the Icon of the Church? Likewise, what are you going to do when your children are born and you begin to feud over religion? I've already had it hard enough with a non-Orthodox family, so there is no way I am going to make it hard for myself again when I get married by marrying some heretic/heathen and have to be alone in my faith again. Especially avoid those Evangelicals, because as long as they live, they will have a vendetta to try to convert you forever and they will believe that it's their Divine purpose to convert you.
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« Reply #41 on: March 16, 2013, 03:09:43 PM »

Okay, what the hell, I'll say it. The purpose of an Orthodox marriage is to--in a mystical way--live out the relationship that Christ has with His Church and to raise up children via the family, which is an Icon of Christ's love. If your spouse is non-Orthodox, with no knowledge of the Church, then how could she possibly perform her will as the Icon of the Church? Likewise, what are you going to do when your children are born and you begin to feud over religion? I've already had it hard enough with a non-Orthodox family, so there is no way I am going to make it hard for myself again when I get married by marrying some heretic/heathen and have to be alone in my faith again. Especially avoid those Evangelicals, because as long as they live, they will have a vendetta to try to convert you forever and they will believe that it's their Divine purpose to convert you.

Bravo.  Well said!   Smiley
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« Reply #42 on: March 16, 2013, 03:22:12 PM »

Okay, what the hell, I'll say it. The purpose of an Orthodox marriage is to--in a mystical way--live out the relationship that Christ has with His Church and to raise up children via the family, which is an Icon of Christ's love. If your spouse is non-Orthodox, with no knowledge of the Church, then how could she possibly perform her will as the Icon of the Church? Likewise, what are you going to do when your children are born and you begin to feud over religion? I've already had it hard enough with a non-Orthodox family, so there is no way I am going to make it hard for myself again when I get married by marrying some heretic/heathen and have to be alone in my faith again. Especially avoid those Evangelicals, because as long as they live, they will have a vendetta to try to convert you forever and they will believe that it's their Divine purpose to convert you.

I fully agree with this.  I'll say it again:  Marriage in modern society is hard enough without a division of the Spirit at home.
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« Reply #43 on: March 16, 2013, 03:32:09 PM »

What is it with chicks always wanting to experience a "family" and have children? This is one of my biggest problems when dating, I can NEVER find a woman who doesn't want kids. I don't want kids!! I don't have the patience to handle them. I've already been raising my younger siblings all these years and I don't want to have to end up raising more children again once I get married. Why is it so hard for women to understand that?
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« Reply #44 on: March 16, 2013, 03:38:52 PM »

What is it with chicks always wanting to experience a "family" and have children? This is one of my biggest problems when dating, I can NEVER find a woman who doesn't want kids. I don't want kids!! I don't have the patience to handle them. I've already been raising my younger siblings all these years and I don't want to have to end up raising more children again once I get married. Why is it so hard for women to understand that?

Well, for one, if she is devout Orthodox, she'll have a problem with contraception in particular and a rejection of the primary (or one of the primary) ends of marriage in general.


You'll find plenty of Protestants who don't ever want children, but (relatively) few Catholics and Orthodox based on my experience.


You are still young.  There is a large percentage of my friends from when I was 21 who said they did not ever, ever want kids who now either do or have them ("them" because they usually have more than 1!).  Probably half of them.  So you may change your mind as you get older and see children as a blessing and joy instead of just as a burden, although I empathize with the cross the Lord has given to you. 

One more thing:  If the girls/women you're dating are talking children and family, they see you as marriage material, so you can at least take that as an indirect compliment.  Smiley 
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« Reply #45 on: March 16, 2013, 03:56:42 PM »


Every Orthodox youth conference ever. The ratio of women to me is at least 4:1 in my experience.

In Christ,
Andrew

Yeah, but those are youth conferences. Meant for teenagers, right? Or are there people in their mid 20's too at these gatherings?
[/quote]
There are more people in their mid 20s than not. Also, try visiting a monastery. When I visited a nearby one, the abbot tried to set me up with a girl from a local parish in the area and even offered to let me use his car to go there for liturgy to meet her. Wink

Also where in the South are you?

In Christ,
Andrew
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« Reply #46 on: March 16, 2013, 04:01:18 PM »

What is it with chicks always wanting to experience a "family" and have children? This is one of my biggest problems when dating, I can NEVER find a woman who doesn't want kids. I don't want kids!! I don't have the patience to handle them. I've already been raising my younger siblings all these years and I don't want to have to end up raising more children again once I get married. Why is it so hard for women to understand that?
Your first post on marriage was well-said, but this one here is lacking in a key component. Children are the fruit of love between the man and woman. Why deny that? It's part of the whole theology on marriage, the crowning ceremony even calls for sons and daughters. Picking and choosing from our teachings on marriage will leave us no better off than our godless culture. If it's God's will for you to marry, then He will give you the grace to raise children. Trust Him.

In Christ,
Andrew
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« Reply #47 on: March 16, 2013, 04:03:39 PM »

What is it with chicks always wanting to experience a "family" and have children? This is one of my biggest problems when dating, I can NEVER find a woman who doesn't want kids. I don't want kids!! I don't have the patience to handle them. I've already been raising my younger siblings all these years and I don't want to have to end up raising more children again once I get married. Why is it so hard for women to understand that?

Though I agreed with your sentiments in the previous post, I can't say that I do with this one Wink But I don't mind it that I don't agree.
Here's my perspective.

Having children (or being a wife for that matter), for me at least, is simply NOT to do/be just that. For me, it's really a spiritually thing, in the sense that the Lord gives me the following gifts in this order: Spouse (Love), Marriage, Children. What this means to me as a woman, is a completion to a certain degree. Not to say that I am "complete" only if I am a wife/mother - no. To me it means that as a woman, the Lord has genetically/biologically/physically/spiritually instilled in me a desire (a want, need etc) for this. And upon maturity, I have acknowledge this desire, and I yearn for it.

Sadly, today's society has degraded marriage to a 'ball and chain,' 'what's mine is mine' pathetic concept that doesn't have anything to do with its true intention, a union in Christ. So, again, for me, this is what I mean by wanting to get married/have children. (Most) men just can't understand that, and, that's ok, I get it - you are not really 'made' to be "prepared" for it, as we women are (by God.)
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« Reply #48 on: March 16, 2013, 04:06:00 PM »

What is it with chicks always wanting to experience a "family" and have children? This is one of my biggest problems when dating, I can NEVER find a woman who doesn't want kids. I don't want kids!! I don't have the patience to handle them. I've already been raising my younger siblings all these years and I don't want to have to end up raising more children again once I get married. Why is it so hard for women to understand that?
Your first post on marriage was well-said, but this one here is lacking in a key component. Children are the fruit of love between the man and woman. Why deny that? It's part of the whole theology on marriage, the crowning ceremony even calls for sons and daughters. Picking and choosing from our teachings on marriage will leave us no better off than our godless culture. If it's God's will for you to marry, then He will give you the grace to raise children. Trust Him.

In Christ,
Andrew

Thank you!

And just curious - are these conference gatherings for mid-thirties people? Or am I too old ?  Wink Are there any in the East coast?
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« Reply #49 on: March 16, 2013, 04:06:27 PM »

What is it with chicks always wanting to experience a "family" and have children? This is one of my biggest problems when dating, I can NEVER find a woman who doesn't want kids. I don't want kids!! I don't have the patience to handle them. I've already been raising my younger siblings all these years and I don't want to have to end up raising more children again once I get married. Why is it so hard for women to understand that?
Your first post on marriage was well-said, but this one here is lacking in a key component. Children are the fruit of love between the man and woman. Why deny that? It's part of the whole theology on marriage, the crowning ceremony even calls for sons and daughters. Picking and choosing from our teachings on marriage will leave us no better off than our godless culture. If it's God's will for you to marry, then He will give you the grace to raise children. Trust Him.

In Christ,
Andrew

Thank you, well said!

And just curious - are these conference gatherings for mid-thirties people? Or am I too old ?  Wink Are there any in the East coast?
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« Reply #50 on: March 16, 2013, 04:06:52 PM »

What is it with chicks always wanting to experience a "family" and have children? This is one of my biggest problems when dating, I can NEVER find a woman who doesn't want kids. I don't want kids!! I don't have the patience to handle them. I've already been raising my younger siblings all these years and I don't want to have to end up raising more children again once I get married. Why is it so hard for women to understand that?
Your first post on marriage was well-said, but this one here is lacking in a key component. Children are the fruit of love between the man and woman. Why deny that? It's part of the whole theology on marriage, the crowning ceremony even calls for sons and daughters. Picking and choosing from our teachings on marriage will leave us no better off than our godless culture. If it's God's will for you to marry, then He will give you the grace to raise children. Trust Him.

In Christ,
Andrew

Thank you, well said!

And just curious - are these conference gatherings for mid-thirties people? Or am I too old ?  Wink Are there any in the East coast?
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« Reply #51 on: March 16, 2013, 04:23:38 PM »


Every Orthodox youth conference ever. The ratio of women to me is at least 4:1 in my experience.

In Christ,
Andrew

Yeah, but those are youth conferences. Meant for teenagers, right? Or are there people in their mid 20's too at these gatherings?
There are more people in their mid 20s than not. Also, try visiting a monastery. When I visited a nearby one, the abbot tried to set me up with a girl from a local parish in the area and even offered to let me use his car to go there for liturgy to meet her. Wink

Also where in the South are you?

In Christ,
Andrew
[/quote]

Charleston, SC. There are two Orthodox churches that I know of in this area. One is an OCA church, the other is a Greek Orthodox church. I've attended one Divine Liturgy at the OCA church and talked with the priest a few times there. It's a nice church, but pretty small. I've not seen what the Greek Orthodox one looks like, but I'm pretty sure it's pretty small as well. Anyway, I'm probably getting ahead of myself since I'm not even sure if I'm going to convert yet, but I'm trying to anticipate possible difficulties in the future if I do. I know, I know, if the Orthodox church is the true church, then I've gotta convert no matter what, even if that means if I stay single for the rest of my life. But.....ughhhhh. It's hard enough to convert already; family is strongly Protestant, my friends are all Protestant, and if I have to stay single forever then it's just added difficulties. It seems like it would be pretty lonely. But ya gotta do what ya gotta do.  Undecided
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« Reply #52 on: March 16, 2013, 04:34:09 PM »

And sorry that my posts look weird. It seems that I haven't gotten the hang of this quote thingy yet.
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« Reply #53 on: March 16, 2013, 04:55:15 PM »

And sorry that my posts look weird. It seems that I haven't gotten the hang of this quote thingy yet.
What happened was probably that you deleted the top part that says something like [quote author=name link=topic=#### (this is followed by a close bracket, but entering it now will affect the formatting of this post.)
It's still readable though.

And regarding an earlier post here, many evangelicals are generally crazy.
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« Reply #54 on: March 16, 2013, 05:06:39 PM »

What is it with chicks always wanting to experience a "family" and have children? This is one of my biggest problems when dating, I can NEVER find a woman who doesn't want kids. I don't want kids!! I don't have the patience to handle them. I've already been raising my younger siblings all these years and I don't want to have to end up raising more children again once I get married. Why is it so hard for women to understand that?

Though I agreed with your sentiments in the previous post, I can't say that I do with this one Wink But I don't mind it that I don't agree.
Here's my perspective.

Having children (or being a wife for that matter), for me at least, is simply NOT to do/be just that. For me, it's really a spiritually thing, in the sense that the Lord gives me the following gifts in this order: Spouse (Love), Marriage, Children. What this means to me as a woman, is a completion to a certain degree. Not to say that I am "complete" only if I am a wife/mother - no. To me it means that as a woman, the Lord has genetically/biologically/physically/spiritually instilled in me a desire (a want, need etc) for this. And upon maturity, I have acknowledge this desire, and I yearn for it.

Sadly, today's society has degraded marriage to a 'ball and chain,' 'what's mine is mine' pathetic concept that doesn't have anything to do with its true intention, a union in Christ. So, again, for me, this is what I mean by wanting to get married/have children. (Most) men just can't understand that, and, that's ok, I get it - you are not really 'made' to be "prepared" for it, as we women are (by God.)

Do you think that you scare men away with your insistence on being married and having children?
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« Reply #55 on: March 16, 2013, 05:10:07 PM »

What is it with chicks always wanting to experience a "family" and have children? This is one of my biggest problems when dating, I can NEVER find a woman who doesn't want kids. I don't want kids!! I don't have the patience to handle them. I've already been raising my younger siblings all these years and I don't want to have to end up raising more children again once I get married. Why is it so hard for women to understand that?

Though I agreed with your sentiments in the previous post, I can't say that I do with this one Wink But I don't mind it that I don't agree.
Here's my perspective.

Having children (or being a wife for that matter), for me at least, is simply NOT to do/be just that. For me, it's really a spiritually thing, in the sense that the Lord gives me the following gifts in this order: Spouse (Love), Marriage, Children. What this means to me as a woman, is a completion to a certain degree. Not to say that I am "complete" only if I am a wife/mother - no. To me it means that as a woman, the Lord has genetically/biologically/physically/spiritually instilled in me a desire (a want, need etc) for this. And upon maturity, I have acknowledge this desire, and I yearn for it.

Sadly, today's society has degraded marriage to a 'ball and chain,' 'what's mine is mine' pathetic concept that doesn't have anything to do with its true intention, a union in Christ. So, again, for me, this is what I mean by wanting to get married/have children. (Most) men just can't understand that, and, that's ok, I get it - you are not really 'made' to be "prepared" for it, as we women are (by God.)

Do you think that you scare men away with your insistence on being married and having children?

Sigh... How awful...

Pity my grandparents, having three kids and being married 55+ years. What were they thinking?

  Cry
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« Reply #56 on: March 16, 2013, 05:15:38 PM »

What is it with chicks always wanting to experience a "family" and have children? This is one of my biggest problems when dating, I can NEVER find a woman who doesn't want kids. I don't want kids!! I don't have the patience to handle them. I've already been raising my younger siblings all these years and I don't want to have to end up raising more children again once I get married. Why is it so hard for women to understand that?

Though I agreed with your sentiments in the previous post, I can't say that I do with this one Wink But I don't mind it that I don't agree.
Here's my perspective.

Having children (or being a wife for that matter), for me at least, is simply NOT to do/be just that. For me, it's really a spiritually thing, in the sense that the Lord gives me the following gifts in this order: Spouse (Love), Marriage, Children. What this means to me as a woman, is a completion to a certain degree. Not to say that I am "complete" only if I am a wife/mother - no. To me it means that as a woman, the Lord has genetically/biologically/physically/spiritually instilled in me a desire (a want, need etc) for this. And upon maturity, I have acknowledge this desire, and I yearn for it.

Sadly, today's society has degraded marriage to a 'ball and chain,' 'what's mine is mine' pathetic concept that doesn't have anything to do with its true intention, a union in Christ. So, again, for me, this is what I mean by wanting to get married/have children. (Most) men just can't understand that, and, that's ok, I get it - you are not really 'made' to be "prepared" for it, as we women are (by God.)

Do you think that you scare men away with your insistence on being married and having children?

Sigh... How awful...

What's awful?

Pity my grandparents, having three kids and being married 55+ years. What were they thinking?

  Cry

Many years to them. 
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« Reply #57 on: March 16, 2013, 05:20:31 PM »

What is it with chicks always wanting to experience a "family" and have children? This is one of my biggest problems when dating, I can NEVER find a woman who doesn't want kids. I don't want kids!! I don't have the patience to handle them. I've already been raising my younger siblings all these years and I don't want to have to end up raising more children again once I get married. Why is it so hard for women to understand that?

Though I agreed with your sentiments in the previous post, I can't say that I do with this one Wink But I don't mind it that I don't agree.
Here's my perspective.

Having children (or being a wife for that matter), for me at least, is simply NOT to do/be just that. For me, it's really a spiritually thing, in the sense that the Lord gives me the following gifts in this order: Spouse (Love), Marriage, Children. What this means to me as a woman, is a completion to a certain degree. Not to say that I am "complete" only if I am a wife/mother - no. To me it means that as a woman, the Lord has genetically/biologically/physically/spiritually instilled in me a desire (a want, need etc) for this. And upon maturity, I have acknowledge this desire, and I yearn for it.

Sadly, today's society has degraded marriage to a 'ball and chain,' 'what's mine is mine' pathetic concept that doesn't have anything to do with its true intention, a union in Christ. So, again, for me, this is what I mean by wanting to get married/have children. (Most) men just can't understand that, and, that's ok, I get it - you are not really 'made' to be "prepared" for it, as we women are (by God.)

Do you think that you scare men away with your insistence on being married and having children?

If you're implying that I wear a sign around my neck - I do not.

Please don't add unfruitful comments to this post. You're the only one who doesnt 'get' what I'm talking about.
Thank you.
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« Reply #58 on: March 16, 2013, 05:21:12 PM »

I ask non-Orthodox users to refrain from posting their theological opinions here.
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« Reply #59 on: March 16, 2013, 05:25:12 PM »

Okay sorry.
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« Reply #60 on: March 16, 2013, 05:26:38 PM »

I ask non-Orthodox users to refrain from posting their theological opinions here.

I can't tell if that's directed at me or not. Is it? Sorry if I violated any rules, and I'll be happy to bow out if I said anything wrong.
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« Reply #61 on: March 16, 2013, 05:32:21 PM »

I ask non-Orthodox users to refrain from posting their theological opinions here.

I can't tell if that's directed at me or not. Is it? Sorry if I violated any rules, and I'll be happy to bow out if I said anything wrong.

Not only you. There is no need to feel special. Can't you start a similar thread in Orth-Other Christian?
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« Reply #62 on: March 16, 2013, 06:07:22 PM »

What is it with chicks always wanting to experience a "family" and have children? This is one of my biggest problems when dating, I can NEVER find a woman who doesn't want kids. I don't want kids!! I don't have the patience to handle them. I've already been raising my younger siblings all these years and I don't want to have to end up raising more children again once I get married. Why is it so hard for women to understand that?

Though I agreed with your sentiments in the previous post, I can't say that I do with this one Wink But I don't mind it that I don't agree.
Here's my perspective.

Having children (or being a wife for that matter), for me at least, is simply NOT to do/be just that. For me, it's really a spiritually thing, in the sense that the Lord gives me the following gifts in this order: Spouse (Love), Marriage, Children. What this means to me as a woman, is a completion to a certain degree. Not to say that I am "complete" only if I am a wife/mother - no. To me it means that as a woman, the Lord has genetically/biologically/physically/spiritually instilled in me a desire (a want, need etc) for this. And upon maturity, I have acknowledge this desire, and I yearn for it.

Sadly, today's society has degraded marriage to a 'ball and chain,' 'what's mine is mine' pathetic concept that doesn't have anything to do with its true intention, a union in Christ. So, again, for me, this is what I mean by wanting to get married/have children. (Most) men just can't understand that, and, that's ok, I get it - you are not really 'made' to be "prepared" for it, as we women are (by God.)

Do you think that you scare men away with your insistence on being married and having children?

If you're implying that I wear a sign around my neck - I do not.

I never implied that you wore a sign around your neck.  When you say that men are not "prepared" to get married, unite in Christ and have your children, that has to come from somewhere.

Please don't add unfruitful comments to this post. You're the only one who doesnt 'get' what I'm talking about.
Thank you.

Kindly explain.  I'm interested in hearing this explanation.   Smiley

EDIT:

I am very proud of my faith and consider myself devout. I've always said I'd marry an (Greek) Orthodox Christian, only because it would mean a great deal to me to raise my family according to how I believe. However, living in a multicultural city, finding such a person has become virtually impossible for me (let alone finding a nice person.)

A friend of mine was in a similar predicament.  He was set up on a blind date and wound up marrying a very nice woman who converted to Orthodox Christianity.

I can't see myself lowering my standards just to 'settle,' and get married, however, if I don't then do I risk being alone for the rest of my life?

I don't know.  Just be yourself.

I don't think God wants me to be lonely and alone. But why hasn't it happened for me yet?

It hasn't happened for me.  At least you aren't alone.

Do I give in and just date 'anyone?" Personally, I would only consider Catholics. But I still don't want to do that. What are your opinions regarding marrying outside our faith?

I prefer to marry within the Orthodox faith.  If I were to marry a non-Orthodox woman, she would have to convert to the Orthodox faith.  There would be no "Interfaith" marriage where I practiced Orthodoxy and she practiced whatever.

I married outside the church and things didn't work out for me.  My ex-wife attended a couple of Divine Liturgies; she wasn't interested in learning about the Orthodox faith.  I didn't do a good job in teaching her and her relatives about the faith.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 06:20:43 PM by SolEX01 » Logged
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« Reply #63 on: March 16, 2013, 06:28:18 PM »

^ Sol,

By 'prepared,' I did not mean that men I've met are not prepared - and nor did I mean 'my' children.

I was simply replying to the poster who GENERALLY spoke about why he doesn't understand why HE thinks all women want is to have kids. This "you are not really 'made' to be "prepared" for it, as we women are (by God.)" was a GENERAL response, meaning (in my opinion) I believe women are predispositioned to wanting kids, given my reasoning in that particular post.

I did not mean I am the one, nor that I ask men after saying Hello, "do you want kids." There is no desparation meant to be implied in my initial post, and that is what I think/thought you did not 'get.' All is forgiven though, it happens.
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« Reply #64 on: March 16, 2013, 06:33:21 PM »

What is it with chicks always wanting to experience a "family" and have children? This is one of my biggest problems when dating, I can NEVER find a woman who doesn't want kids. I don't want kids!! I don't have the patience to handle them. I've already been raising my younger siblings all these years and I don't want to have to end up raising more children again once I get married. Why is it so hard for women to understand that?

Though I agreed with your sentiments in the previous post, I can't say that I do with this one Wink But I don't mind it that I don't agree.
Here's my perspective.

Having children (or being a wife for that matter), for me at least, is simply NOT to do/be just that. For me, it's really a spiritually thing, in the sense that the Lord gives me the following gifts in this order: Spouse (Love), Marriage, Children. What this means to me as a woman, is a completion to a certain degree. Not to say that I am "complete" only if I am a wife/mother - no. To me it means that as a woman, the Lord has genetically/biologically/physically/spiritually instilled in me a desire (a want, need etc) for this. And upon maturity, I have acknowledge this desire, and I yearn for it.

Sadly, today's society has degraded marriage to a 'ball and chain,' 'what's mine is mine' pathetic concept that doesn't have anything to do with its true intention, a union in Christ. So, again, for me, this is what I mean by wanting to get married/have children. (Most) men just can't understand that, and, that's ok, I get it - you are not really 'made' to be "prepared" for it, as we women are (by God.)

Have you ever actually had children or extensive experience raising them--pitfalls, disadvantages, tantrums and all--or do you have this romanticized view of it being easy and amazing and giving value to you? I'm not trying to offend you or anything, nor do I mean to ridicule your feelings, but I know many women just like you, and from my experience, none of them really know what children are like. They mostly just take this romantic view of it with no experience under their belt. Take this one girl I knew, she was an only-child in her household, yet, she told me that she wants to have 4 children someday. That's crazy.

Until you've been raising them or helping raise them for 10+ years like me, I don't think anyone's opinion on raising children is valid. Likewise, I think this feminine view of children and being a mother/wife "completing" them is somewhat unhealthy--for one, it indicates dissatisfaction with yourself, and second, it uses other people such as children and/or a husband as mere objects to satisfy your personal dissatisfaction.

Lastly, you say that men will "never" understand it, and maybe we won't, but do you think you'll ever understood manhood? What children mean for us? And maybe some of the reasons why many of us are reluctant about them? You make it sound as if not desiring marriage or children yet is somehow immature or selfish, in reality, it isn't. If anything, it may be more mature because you are not getting yourself locked into something yet that you don't think you're ready for. Sometimes we just want to date to learn about females and/or have fun, why can't YOU understand that? Or sometimes we DO want to get married, but we just don't want to have children right away. It's tough. And until you've dealt with a mouthy 10 year old and monstrous 2 1/2 year old, I don't think you understand.
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« Reply #65 on: March 16, 2013, 06:34:31 PM »

Sol, thank you for the elaborated questions-answers. I just wanted to hear some opinions on the subject. I find this site very informative and refreshing.

I will carry on with my quest and continue to believe.
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« Reply #66 on: March 16, 2013, 06:41:47 PM »

^ Sol,

By 'prepared,' I did not mean that men I've met are not prepared - and nor did I mean 'my' children.

I was simply replying to the poster who GENERALLY spoke about why he doesn't understand why HE thinks all women want is to have kids. This "you are not really 'made' to be "prepared" for it, as we women are (by God.)" was a GENERAL response, meaning (in my opinion) I believe women are predispositioned to wanting kids, given my reasoning in that particular post.

You started the sentence by saying "(Most) men just can't understand that ..." and continued with your response to James.  The "(Most) men just can't understand that ..." is what caused the reply.

I did not mean I am the one, nor that I ask men after saying Hello, "do you want kids." There is no desparation meant to be implied in my initial post, and that is what I think/thought you did not 'get.'

In your posts, you give off a sense of desperation.  I have another friend who married and will soon have 2 children under the age of 2.

All is forgiven though, it happens.

In the spirit of Forgiveness, may God forgive us all.   angel
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 06:43:32 PM by SolEX01 » Logged
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« Reply #67 on: March 16, 2013, 06:41:53 PM »

What is it with chicks always wanting to experience a "family" and have children? This is one of my biggest problems when dating, I can NEVER find a woman who doesn't want kids. I don't want kids!! I don't have the patience to handle them. I've already been raising my younger siblings all these years and I don't want to have to end up raising more children again once I get married. Why is it so hard for women to understand that?

Though I agreed with your sentiments in the previous post, I can't say that I do with this one Wink But I don't mind it that I don't agree.
Here's my perspective.

Having children (or being a wife for that matter), for me at least, is simply NOT to do/be just that. For me, it's really a spiritually thing, in the sense that the Lord gives me the following gifts in this order: Spouse (Love), Marriage, Children. What this means to me as a woman, is a completion to a certain degree. Not to say that I am "complete" only if I am a wife/mother - no. To me it means that as a woman, the Lord has genetically/biologically/physically/spiritually instilled in me a desire (a want, need etc) for this. And upon maturity, I have acknowledge this desire, and I yearn for it.

Sadly, today's society has degraded marriage to a 'ball and chain,' 'what's mine is mine' pathetic concept that doesn't have anything to do with its true intention, a union in Christ. So, again, for me, this is what I mean by wanting to get married/have children. (Most) men just can't understand that, and, that's ok, I get it - you are not really 'made' to be "prepared" for it, as we women are (by God.)

Have you ever actually had children or extensive experience raising them--pitfalls, disadvantages, tantrums and all--or do you have this romanticized view of it being easy and amazing and giving value to you? I'm not trying to offend you or anything, nor do I mean to ridicule your feelings, but I know many women just like you, and from my experience, none of them really know what children are like. They mostly just take this romantic view of it with no experience under their belt. Take this one girl I knew, she was an only-child in her household, yet, she told me that she wants to have 4 children someday. That's crazy.

Until you've been raising them or helping raise them for 10+ years like me, I don't think anyone's opinion on raising children is valid. Likewise, I think this feminine view of children and being a mother/wife "completing" them is somewhat unhealthy--for one, it indicates dissatisfaction with yourself, and second, it uses other people such as children and/or a husband as mere objects to satisfy your personal dissatisfaction.

Lastly, you say that men will "never" understand it, and maybe we won't, but do you think you'll ever understood manhood? What children mean for us? And maybe some of the reasons why many of us are reluctant about them? You make it sound as if not desiring marriage or children yet is somehow immature or selfish, in reality, it isn't. If anything, it may be more mature because you are not getting yourself locked into something yet that you don't think you're ready for. Sometimes we just want to date to learn about females and/or have fun, why can't YOU understand that? Or sometimes we DO want to get married, but we just don't want to have children right away. It's tough. And until you've dealt with a mouthy 10 year old and monstrous 2 1/2 year old, I don't think you understand.

I see your point. Again, this isn't the issue - how children will behave, how hard it is etc. Who gets experience or takes a 'course' on how to's have/raise kids and then goes and has them? No one really! And if they are as hard as you say to raise (not arguing here,) then the whole human race would have died centuries ago. this is not the isssue i wanted to raise!!!

Who said marriage/kids is easy? Have I said this? No. Do I imply this? No. Do I think it'll be a fantacy-like experience, as you say? No.
This is not what I'm talking about!! Period.

I want to experience the Sacrament of marriage with the right man, and whatever that brings!! That's all!!!
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 06:48:35 PM by Faith2545 » Logged
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« Reply #68 on: March 16, 2013, 06:58:54 PM »

What is it with chicks always wanting to experience a "family" and have children? This is one of my biggest problems when dating, I can NEVER find a woman who doesn't want kids. I don't want kids!! I don't have the patience to handle them. I've already been raising my younger siblings all these years and I don't want to have to end up raising more children again once I get married. Why is it so hard for women to understand that?


 You make it sound as if not desiring marriage or children yet is somehow immature or selfish, in reality, it isn't. If anything, it may be more mature because you are not getting yourself locked into something yet that you don't think you're ready for.

This is your opinion about having kids. And I respect it as your opinion. It's like saying, I prefer dating blonds only...for now.

You may not be ready for it. You say this. Whereas, I am. I still don't understand why you didn't understand what I meant. Finding the right guy, WHO is at a point in his life that's ready to take on these challenges as I. This is all my post is about.
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« Reply #69 on: March 16, 2013, 07:00:42 PM »

I want to experience the Sacrament of marriage with the right man, and whatever that brings!! That's all!!!

I was considering marriage to an Orthodox woman who couldn't keep her finances in order.  One night, we went out to dinner and her credit card was declined.  Fortunately, I had cash and I paid for the meal while wondering why her credit card was declined.  I guessed that she had no money in her checking account.  I told her that we came close to being arrested for stealing and that we needed to check her account balance.  Her account was very overdrawn.  Turns out that she was spending her money on online psychics.  I broke up with her a month later and never looked back.

I haven't dated since then.  Most of my male Orthodox friends have married within Orthodox Christianity.  Most of my female Orthodox friends have married interfaith.  That's why it's called life.   Smiley
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« Reply #70 on: March 16, 2013, 07:00:50 PM »

What is it with chicks always wanting to experience a "family" and have children? This is one of my biggest problems when dating, I can NEVER find a woman who doesn't want kids. I don't want kids!! I don't have the patience to handle them. I've already been raising my younger siblings all these years and I don't want to have to end up raising more children again once I get married. Why is it so hard for women to understand that?


 You make it sound as if not desiring marriage or children yet is somehow immature or selfish, in reality, it isn't. If anything, it may be more mature because you are not getting yourself locked into something yet that you don't think you're ready for.

This is your opinion about having kids. And I respect it as your opinion. It's like saying, I prefer dating blonds only...for now. I never said anything or judged a man on whether or not he wants kids. All I said is that I believe women are predispositioned to want them. Thats' all.

You may not be ready for it. You say this. Whereas, I am. I still don't understand why you didn't understand what I meant. Finding the right guy, WHO is at a point in his life that's ready to take on these challenges as I. This is all my post is about.
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« Reply #71 on: March 16, 2013, 07:02:41 PM »

I want to experience the Sacrament of marriage with the right man, and whatever that brings!! That's all!!!

I was considering marriage to an Orthodox woman who couldn't keep her finances in order.  One night, we went out to dinner and her credit card was declined.  Fortunately, I had cash and I paid for the meal while wondering why her credit card was declined.  I guessed that she had no money in her checking account.  I told her that we came close to being arrested for stealing and that we needed to check her account balance.  Her account was very overdrawn.  Turns out that she was spending her money on online psychics.  I broke up with her a month later and never looked back.

I haven't dated since then.  Most of my male Orthodox friends have married within Orthodox Christianity.  Most of my female Orthodox friends have married interfaith.  That's why it's called life.   Smiley

So, in essence, your journey continues as well!! Smiley
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« Reply #72 on: March 16, 2013, 07:03:10 PM »

"When I visited a nearby one, the abbot tried to set me up with a girl from a local parish in the area and even offered to let me use his car to go there for liturgy to meet her."

Wow!
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« Reply #73 on: March 16, 2013, 07:05:31 PM »

I want to experience the Sacrament of marriage with the right man, and whatever that brings!! That's all!!!

I was considering marriage to an Orthodox woman who couldn't keep her finances in order.  One night, we went out to dinner and her credit card was declined.  Fortunately, I had cash and I paid for the meal while wondering why her credit card was declined.  I guessed that she had no money in her checking account.  I told her that we came close to being arrested for stealing and that we needed to check her account balance.  Her account was very overdrawn.  Turns out that she was spending her money on online psychics.  I broke up with her a month later and never looked back.

I haven't dated since then.  Most of my male Orthodox friends have married within Orthodox Christianity.  Most of my female Orthodox friends have married interfaith.  That's why it's called life.   Smiley

So, in essence, your journey continues as well!! Smiley

I just try to be myself.   Grin 
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« Reply #74 on: March 16, 2013, 07:12:25 PM »

You make it sound as if not desiring marriage or children yet is somehow immature or selfish, in reality, it isn't. If anything, it may be more mature because you are not getting yourself locked into something yet that you don't think you're ready for.

This is your opinion about having kids. And I respect it as your opinion. It's like saying, I prefer dating blonds only...for now. I never said anything or judged a man on whether or not he wants kids. All I said is that I believe women are predispositioned to want them. Thats' all.

You may not be ready for it. You say this. Whereas, I am. I still don't understand why you didn't understand what I meant. Finding the right guy, WHO is at a point in his life that's ready to take on these challenges as I. This is all my post is about.

Don't mind James; he's still a kid himself. Wink

I married at 36 (a disaffected Anglican who is still on his way to Orthodoxy). Even my mother had given up on me. I didn't much care; I wanted Mr Right and I was willing to wait. I have had a child of my own and I feel complete in that department - never cared to go for a basketball team. After all, I couldn't imagine how tough it is to deal with a stroppy teenager until I had to take on my stepdaughter! Wink

Have faith and trust, accept that God doesn't work on a human timeline, put yourself out there and keep your eyes open.
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« Reply #75 on: March 16, 2013, 07:13:06 PM »

I want to experience the Sacrament of marriage with the right man, and whatever that brings!! That's all!!!

I was considering marriage to an Orthodox woman who couldn't keep her finances in order.  One night, we went out to dinner and her credit card was declined.  Fortunately, I had cash and I paid for the meal while wondering why her credit card was declined.  I guessed that she had no money in her checking account.  I told her that we came close to being arrested for stealing and that we needed to check her account balance.  Her account was very overdrawn.  Turns out that she was spending her money on online psychics.  I broke up with her a month later and never looked back.

I haven't dated since then.  Most of my male Orthodox friends have married within Orthodox Christianity.  Most of my female Orthodox friends have married interfaith.  That's why it's called life.   Smiley

So, in essence, your journey continues as well!! Smiley

I just try to be myself.   Grin 

That's all I do Smiley
I guess over the computer things can get miscontrued Smiley
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« Reply #76 on: March 16, 2013, 07:15:12 PM »

You make it sound as if not desiring marriage or children yet is somehow immature or selfish, in reality, it isn't. If anything, it may be more mature because you are not getting yourself locked into something yet that you don't think you're ready for.

This is your opinion about having kids. And I respect it as your opinion. It's like saying, I prefer dating blonds only...for now. I never said anything or judged a man on whether or not he wants kids. All I said is that I believe women are predispositioned to want them. Thats' all.

You may not be ready for it. You say this. Whereas, I am. I still don't understand why you didn't understand what I meant. Finding the right guy, WHO is at a point in his life that's ready to take on these challenges as I. This is all my post is about.


 I wanted Mr Right and I was willing to wait. I have had a child of my own and I feel complete in that department -

Have faith and trust, accept that God doesn't work on a human timeline, put yourself out there and keep your eyes open.

Thank you! My point exactly Wink
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« Reply #77 on: March 16, 2013, 07:18:42 PM »

I want to experience the Sacrament of marriage with the right man, and whatever that brings!! That's all!!!

I was considering marriage to an Orthodox woman who couldn't keep her finances in order.  One night, we went out to dinner and her credit card was declined.  Fortunately, I had cash and I paid for the meal while wondering why her credit card was declined.  I guessed that she had no money in her checking account.  I told her that we came close to being arrested for stealing and that we needed to check her account balance.  Her account was very overdrawn.  Turns out that she was spending her money on online psychics.  I broke up with her a month later and never looked back.

I haven't dated since then.  Most of my male Orthodox friends have married within Orthodox Christianity.  Most of my female Orthodox friends have married interfaith.  That's why it's called life.   Smiley

So, in essence, your journey continues as well!! Smiley

I just try to be myself.   Grin 

That's all I do Smiley
I guess over the computer things can get miscontrued Smiley

Yeah, it's easy to misconstrue text.   Smiley
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Antonis
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« Reply #78 on: March 17, 2013, 12:25:24 AM »

Just gonna leave these here...

Canon 10 of the Council of Laodicea
The members of the Church shall not indiscriminately marry their children to heretics.

Canon 31 of the Council of Laodicea
It is riot lawful to make marriages with all heretics, nor to give our sons and daughters to them; but rather to take of them, if they promise to become Christians.

Canon 21 of the 419 Council of Carthage
Likewise it seemed good that the sons of clergymen should not be joined in matrimony with gentiles and heretics.

Canon 14 of the Council of Chalcedon
Since in certain provinces it is permitted to the readers and singers to marry, the holy Synod has decreed that it shall not be lawful for any of them to take a wife that is heterodox. But those who have already begotten children of such a marriage, if they have already had their children baptized among the heretics, must bring them into the communion of the Catholic Church; but if they have not had them baptized, they may not hereafter baptize them among heretics, nor give them in marriage to a heretic, or a Jew, or a heathen, unless the person marrying the orthodox child shall promise to come over to the orthodox faith. And if any one shall transgress this decree of the holy synod, let him be subjected to canonical censure.

Canon 72 of the Council of Trullo
An orthodox man is not permitted to marry an heretical woman, nor an orthodox woman to be joined to an heretical man. But if anything of this kind appear to have been done by any to consider the marriage null, and that the marriage be dissolved. For it is not fitting to mingle together what should not be mingled, nor is it right that the sheep be joined with the wolf, nor the lot of sinners with the portion of Christ. But if any one shall transgress the things which we have decreed let him be cut off. But if any who up to this time are unbelievers and are not yet numbered in the flock of the orthodox have contracted lawful marriage between themselves, and if then, one choosing the right and coming to the light of truth and the other remaining still detained by the bond of error and not willing to behold with steady eye the divine rays, the unbelieving woman is pleased to cohabit with the believing man, or the unbelieving man with the believing woman, let them not be separated, according to the divine Apostle, “for the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife by her husband.”


Economy is necessary in many situations, but we can never forget that it is just that: economy!
« Last Edit: March 17, 2013, 12:26:45 AM by Antonis » Logged

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« Reply #79 on: March 17, 2013, 12:34:14 AM »

Well, that certainly doesn't look promising for marrying outside the Church.

Some are married outside the faith, but have reduced opportunity to participate in the Mysteries. 

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« Reply #80 on: March 17, 2013, 05:21:37 AM »

about youth conferences; many churches (eg. mine) have general conferences, where people of any age can go.
this would be a good place to meet people, as you will find people who are interested in learning more about God, and this is a very good basis for any friendship or deeper relationship.

i met my husband (we were both protestants) at an international Christian music festival. there were grandparents, children and everyone in between.
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« Reply #81 on: March 17, 2013, 07:35:54 AM »

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Dating/Marrying Non-Orthodox Christians. Thoughts?


Don't do it.
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« Reply #82 on: March 17, 2013, 07:53:45 AM »

dating should be for marriage.  And I wouldn't marry someone of a different faith
^ This!  This right here!  This is amazing stuff for those who are not married.
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« Reply #83 on: March 17, 2013, 07:55:48 AM »

I find this to be a depressing subject to think about. As a single guy in his mid 20s who's considering possible conversion to Orthodoxy, it seems that the chances of finding a like minded girl my age is pretty low. I live in the south, where Orthodoxy is pretty rare.
One does not covert to the Orthodox Church based on probability of marriage.  One converts because one believes it to be THE Apostolic Church.
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« Reply #84 on: March 17, 2013, 08:00:01 AM »


Sorry  Cry

I've come to terms with it over the years, I think. But you shouldn't lose hope angel

Over the years?? According to your profile you're only 18!   Huh
Ahh, children...

Mmmm, ah, I see. That's motivating, somehow, I think.

My parents and my friends have come to the same conclusion as me anyway.

You do realize the day after you cash in, Mrs. Perfect for Cyrillic will walk around the corner.
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« Reply #85 on: March 17, 2013, 08:02:27 AM »

What is it with chicks always wanting to experience a "family" and have children? ... I can NEVER find a woman who doesn't want kids.

Just goes to show you what modern society tells us about women is wrong.  Men and women really are different.  God designed us the right way in the beginning.  Go figure. 
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« Reply #86 on: March 17, 2013, 08:07:26 AM »


Charleston, SC. There are two Orthodox churches that I know of in this area. One is an OCA church, the other is a Greek Orthodox church. I've attended one Divine Liturgy at the OCA church and talked with the priest a few times there. It's a nice church, but pretty small.
It’s a great parish!  Father John is super nice!  I had actually thought about moving there for this parish. 


I've not seen what the Greek Orthodox one looks like, but I'm pretty sure it's pretty small as well.

I have not either.  My parish is farther south, but it is Greek.  Columbia has a nice church as well.
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« Reply #87 on: March 19, 2013, 03:54:44 AM »

I used to have a Protestant friend who said that he wants to marry an atheist chick because he thinks that they would be "the most open-minded when it came to loving."
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You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
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James, you have problemz.
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