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Author Topic: What is modernity and modernism? Re: HB John's Enthronement Speech  (Read 325 times) Average Rating: 0
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Maria
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« on: March 16, 2013, 12:47:53 AM »

However, look at HB John's Enthronement Speech:
http://www.antiochian.org/sites/antiochian.org/files/march_2013_word.pdf

Paragraph 1 - "The Holy Spirit reveals Jesus whenever HEdawns*, making Him present yet veiled in all religions and cultures."

*I think this word is a typo. Is it corrected in the PDF? I am reading from the magazine.

Paragraph 4 - "God is not pleased to see that the unity He wants for His people is shattered, an that is flock is divided into many factions."

Paragraph 8 - "Modernity is a blessing that calls us to revive the fundamentals of our worship and teachings, and also to differentiate between the one Holy Tradition and the many secondary traditions and practices to which we often cling."

~~~~~

With three sentences, I have reached my limit and so must stop quoting so as not to violate the copyright laws.

Paragraph 1 is a thinly veiled vague statement that approaches heresy.

Paragraph 4 urges unity ... we do not need a one-world religion.

Paragraph 8 really concerns me as HB John is bringing into play the Big T vs the Little t traditions ... a distinction that came about with the Roman Catholic Vatican II discussions. Modernism is rearing its ugly head here.


Maria,

Honest question.

What is the alternative to "modernism" (I'm going to go with some vague notion of how most people use it)?

Even this very question presupposes something like modernity at work.

I really cannot understand these blanket rejections of "modernism". It would be like me bemoaning that fourth century Athenians were not Ming Dynasty Chinese.

It makes no sense.

The real question is what are the real problems, in a relatively neutral sense, of modernity and how within modernity can they be addressed, if at all.

Good question: What is modernity and modernism?

« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 12:51:48 AM by Maria » Logged

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Rufus
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« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2013, 01:24:19 PM »

Two different things, for starters.
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« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2013, 01:32:53 PM »


However, look at HB John's Enthronement Speech:
http://www.antiochian.org/sites/antiochian.org/files/march_2013_word.pdf

Paragraph 1 - "The Holy Spirit reveals Jesus whenever HEdawns*, making Him present yet veiled in all religions and cultures."

*I think this word is a typo. Is it corrected in the PDF? I am reading from the magazine.

Paragraph 4 - "God is not pleased to see that the unity He wants for His people is shattered, an that is flock is divided into many factions."

Paragraph 8 - "Modernity is a blessing that calls us to revive the fundamentals of our worship and teachings, and also to differentiate between the one Holy Tradition and the many secondary traditions and practices to which we often cling."

~~~~~

With three sentences, I have reached my limit and so must stop quoting so as not to violate the copyright laws.

Paragraph 1 is a thinly veiled vague statement that approaches heresy.

Paragraph 4 urges unity ... we do not need a one-world religion.

Paragraph 8 really concerns me as HB John is bringing into play the Big T vs the Little t traditions ... a distinction that came about with the Roman Catholic Vatican II discussions. Modernism is rearing its ugly head here.


Maria,

Honest question.

What is the alternative to "modernism" (I'm going to go with some vague notion of how most people use it)?

Even this very question presupposes something like modernity at work.

I really cannot understand these blanket rejections of "modernism". It would be like me bemoaning that fourth century Athenians were not Ming Dynasty Chinese.

It makes no sense.

The real question is what are the real problems, in a relatively neutral sense, of modernity and how within modernity can they be addressed, if at all.

orthonorm, I feel your pain, probably worse than you do. If I may ask, do you realize that in a religious context, "Modernism" is the name of a specific theological movement? I'm wondering if people aren't getting confused because they're using the term equivocally.

It seems that most people (everyone?) on this board confuses "modernism" as a sociological term with Modernism, the theological movement that started in the RCC and blossomed in the Anglican Church in the 20th Century.

Can the people who know what they're talking about please step forward?
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« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2013, 03:46:26 PM »

Modernism (the philosophy) was declared and defined by Pope St. Pius X as "the synthesis of all heresies".  It focuses on the ability of man to create or determine his own morality independent of the ancient Tradition of the Church.  It is considered especially pernicious because, in modern society, is it more like the air we breathe than anything we actively can reject.  We are a consumer-driven, democratic society; these two elements are diametrically opposed to historical Christendom, which is a humble-receiver (sorry, can't think of a better phrase) and theocratic society, at least within each human soul.


Another word for the philosophy of Modernism is relativism, specifically moral relativism.  Contraception may be right for you and wrong for me.  Ditto homosexual acts, abortion, etc.  It basically makes of any moral code a kind of icky goo that becomes whatever you want it to be.

Atheism and skepticism are the natural children of Modernism.  If I can create my own morality, then there is no God, or at the very least it is highly unlikely that there is one.
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ialmisry
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« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2013, 04:59:06 PM »

Modernity-the Church being up to date and acting her age.

Modernism-the Church rejected as out of date and acting out the age.
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« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2013, 05:10:34 PM »

Modernism (the philosophy) was declared and defined by Pope St. Pius X as "the synthesis of all heresies".  It focuses on the ability of man to create or determine his own morality independent of the ancient Tradition of the Church.  It is considered especially pernicious because, in modern society, is it more like the air we breathe than anything we actively can reject.  We are a consumer-driven, democratic society; these two elements are diametrically opposed to historical Christendom, which is a humble-receiver (sorry, can't think of a better phrase) and theocratic society, at least within each human soul.


Another word for the philosophy of Modernism is relativism, specifically moral relativism.  Contraception may be right for you and wrong for me.  Ditto homosexual acts, abortion, etc.  It basically makes of any moral code a kind of icky goo that becomes whatever you want it to be.

Atheism and skepticism are the natural children of Modernism.  If I can create my own morality, then there is no God, or at the very least it is highly unlikely that there is one.

Historical Christendom was a consumer-driven society. Perhaps you mean something else.
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