Author Topic: Conclave and a New Pope  (Read 17459 times)

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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #90 on: March 12, 2013, 08:20:34 PM »
Are they really only limited to Cardinals?  I am hoping an Eastern Catholic bishop gets elected.   ;D
They aren't even limited to bishops.  Technically, any male Catholic is eligible.

Dear Deacon,

Could you link to some source for this that would stand as proof. I thought that indeed any RC male could serve but I was told by everyone today who knows what they know from the TV over the last day that only a Cardinal can be elected.

Thanks.

p.s. My opinion is formed by mere speculation given how I understand RC theology.
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Offline Nephi

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #91 on: March 12, 2013, 08:24:41 PM »
Are they really only limited to Cardinals?  I am hoping an Eastern Catholic bishop gets elected.   ;D
They aren't even limited to bishops.  Technically, any male Catholic is eligible.

Would a layperson made Pope be immediately made a bishop or something? In order to perform Mass, etc.

Offline Maria

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #92 on: March 12, 2013, 08:26:59 PM »
Are they really only limited to Cardinals?  I am hoping an Eastern Catholic bishop gets elected.   ;D
They aren't even limited to bishops.  Technically, any male Catholic is eligible.

Would a layperson made Pope be immediately made a bishop or something? In order to perform Mass, etc.

The male selected would have to go through ordination to the diaconate, priesthood, and then be ordained a bishop. This would take some time, so obviously he would not be elevated to the papacy immediately.

If he were married, he and his wife would have to agree to separate before he could be ordained.
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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #93 on: March 12, 2013, 08:46:47 PM »
Are they really only limited to Cardinals?  I am hoping an Eastern Catholic bishop gets elected.   ;D
They aren't even limited to bishops.  Technically, any male Catholic is eligible.

Would a layperson made Pope be immediately made a bishop or something? In order to perform Mass, etc.

The male selected would have to go through ordination to the diaconate, priesthood, and then be ordained a bishop. This would take some time, so obviously he would not be elevated to the papacy immediately.

If he were married, he and his wife would have to agree to separate before he could be ordained.

Consider the example of St. Tarasios, Patriarch of Constantinople, one of a number of laymen to be so elevated:

"Tarasios was born and raised in the city of Constantinople. A son of a high-ranking judge, Tarasios was related to important families, including that of the later Patriarch Photios the Great. Tarasios had embarked on a career in the secular administration and had attained the rank of senator, eventually becoming imperial secretary (asekretis) to the Emperor Constantine VI and his mother, the Empress Irene. Originally he embraced Iconoclasm, but later repented, resigned his post, and retired to a monastery, taking the &Great Schema (monastic habit). Since he exhibited both Iconodule sympathies and the willingness to follow imperial commands when they were not contrary to the faith, he was selected as Patriarch of Constantinople by the Empress Irene in 784, even though he was a layman at the time. Nevertheless, like all educated Byzantines, he was well versed in theology, and the election of qualified laymen as bishops was not unheard of in the history of the Church. He reluctantly accepted, on condition that church unity would be restored with Rome and the oriental Patriarchs.To make him eligible for the office of patriarch, Tarasios was duly ordained to the deaconate and then the priesthood, prior to his consecration as bishop."  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriarch_Tarasios_of_Constantinople

And the greatest lay person chosen: St. Photius:

"Photios was a well-educated man from a noble Constantinopolitan family. Photius's great uncle was the previous Patriarch of Constantinople, Tarasius. He intended to be a monk, but chose to be a scholar and statesman instead. In 858, Emperor Michael III (r. 842–867) deposed Patriarch Ignatius of Constantinople, and Photios, still a layman, was appointed in his place. Amid power struggles between the pope and the Byzantine emperor, Ignatius was reinstated. Photios resumed the position when Ignatius died (877), by order of the Byzantine emperor.The new pope, John VIII, approved Photios's reinstatement. Catholics regard a Fourth Council of Constantinople (Roman Catholic) as anathematizing Photios as legitimate. Eastern Orthodox regard a second council named the Fourth Council of Constantinople (Eastern Orthodox), reversing the first, as legitimate.The contested Ecumenical Councils mark the end of unity represented by the first seven Ecumenical Councils."
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photios_I_of_Constantinople

Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #94 on: March 12, 2013, 09:40:49 PM »
Are they really only limited to Cardinals?  I am hoping an Eastern Catholic bishop gets elected.   ;D
They aren't even limited to bishops.  Technically, any male Catholic is eligible.

Tehcnically, but wasn't there a clause added that the pool be limited to Cardinals?
No.
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Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #95 on: March 12, 2013, 09:49:28 PM »
I found a photo of the procession today into the Sistine Chapel on Huff-Po, On the left side of the photo in the back you can see an Eastern Catholic Patriarch-Cardinal in traditional dress. I think he is the Syro-Malabar Patriarch, but I could very well be wrong.



Link to the article here. Apologies that the article is a bit tongue-in-cheek (I mean, it is Huff-Po), but it had the photo I was looking for!

That is the Syro-Malankar Archbishop although the Syro-Malabar Archbishop is there as well but his outfit is the same as the Latins with a slightly different biretta.
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Offline William

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #96 on: March 12, 2013, 09:52:24 PM »
With the papal election this week, I thought a discussion on the general topic based on news reports might be of interest. Not Orthodox/Catholic discussion, just the news aspect.

Here is an interesting quote on the conclave process from a Georgetown U. Church history professor:

"The conclave is a process that dates to the Middle Ages. Until the 11th century, the process of picking popes was “a mess and inconsistent,” said Georgetown University history professor the Rev. David Collins. The popes were picked by various combinations of the clergy in Rome and the generation population. At that time, popes served as the head of Christianity in Western Europe and as the bishop of Rome. The city was governed by several prominent families, and the pope would come from one of those families."  http://m.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/papal-conclave-has-tight-structure-uncertain-length/2013/03/11/044128a4-8a5c-11e2-8d72-dc76641cb8d4_story.html


Not many RCs would admit to this ;)

Rather they are ignorant of this. 
Yes, I dare say most people-whether in the Vatican's flock or outside it-don't know that the present system isn't even a thousand years old.  Though, mystique and all, the Vatican isn't troubled by this misconception, but it will readily admit to this.

If they elect a non-Italian, the Italian monopoly is pretty much over.  And all the names I've been seeing are non-Italians.

I was watching Fox News this afternoon (which interestingly enough featured both a radically right-wing Zionist commercial and a commercial calling for acceptance of homosexual marriage) and they called it an "ancient ritual." I'm not sure if that came from ignorance of the election rite's age or ignorance of what period "ancient" refers to.
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Offline Nephi

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #97 on: March 12, 2013, 10:06:44 PM »
I was watching Fox News this afternoon (which interestingly enough featured both a radically right-wing Zionist commercial and a commercial calling for acceptance of homosexual marriage) and they called it an "ancient ritual." I'm not sure if that came from ignorance of the election rite's age or ignorance of what period "ancient" refers to.

I'd consider a thousand years "ancient," in the sense that it's very old. After all, "ancient" has other definitons that don't refer specifically to the "ancient Greeks and Romans," etc.

Offline TheMathematician

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #98 on: March 12, 2013, 10:08:36 PM »
I was watching Fox News this afternoon (which interestingly enough featured both a radically right-wing Zionist commercial and a commercial calling for acceptance of homosexual marriage) and they called it an "ancient ritual." I'm not sure if that came from ignorance of the election rite's age or ignorance of what period "ancient" refers to.

I'd consider a thousand years "ancient," in the sense that it's very old. After all, "ancient" has other definitons that don't refer specifically to the "ancient Greeks and Romans," etc.

in french, the word ancien can be translated as either ancient or former, depending on the word order

Offline William

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #99 on: March 12, 2013, 10:08:48 PM »
I was watching Fox News this afternoon (which interestingly enough featured both a radically right-wing Zionist commercial and a commercial calling for acceptance of homosexual marriage) and they called it an "ancient ritual." I'm not sure if that came from ignorance of the election rite's age or ignorance of what period "ancient" refers to.

I'd consider a thousand years "ancient," in the sense that it's very old. After all, "ancient" has other definitons that don't refer specifically to the "ancient Greeks and Romans," etc.

Well, colloquially, words can mean anything. It's supposed to refer to antiquity, though.
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Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #100 on: March 12, 2013, 10:10:14 PM »
Are they really only limited to Cardinals?  I am hoping an Eastern Catholic bishop gets elected.   ;D
They aren't even limited to bishops.  Technically, any male Catholic is eligible.

Would a layperson made Pope be immediately made a bishop or something? In order to perform Mass, etc.

The male selected would have to go through ordination to the diaconate, priesthood, and then be ordained a bishop. This would take some time, so obviously he would not be elevated to the papacy immediately.

If he were married, he and his wife would have to agree to separate before he could be ordained.

As Pope he could dispense himself from this.
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Offline Maria

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #101 on: March 12, 2013, 10:11:27 PM »
Are they really only limited to Cardinals?  I am hoping an Eastern Catholic bishop gets elected.   ;D
They aren't even limited to bishops.  Technically, any male Catholic is eligible.

Would a layperson made Pope be immediately made a bishop or something? In order to perform Mass, etc.

The male selected would have to go through ordination to the diaconate, priesthood, and then be ordained a bishop. This would take some time, so obviously he would not be elevated to the papacy immediately.

If he were married, he and his wife would have to agree to separate before he could be ordained.

As Pope he could dispense himself from this.

But could not the Bishops and Cardinals refuse to ordain him?

Oh, I guess an Eastern Catholic Bishop could without any hesitation.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2013, 10:12:16 PM by Maria »
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Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #102 on: March 12, 2013, 10:16:08 PM »
Are they really only limited to Cardinals?  I am hoping an Eastern Catholic bishop gets elected.   ;D
They aren't even limited to bishops.  Technically, any male Catholic is eligible.

Dear Deacon,

Could you link to some source for this that would stand as proof. I thought that indeed any RC male could serve but I was told by everyone today who knows what they know from the TV over the last day that only a Cardinal can be elected.

Thanks.

p.s. My opinion is formed by mere speculation given how I understand RC theology.

88. After his acceptance, the person elected, if he has already received episcopal ordination, is immediately Bishop of the Church of Rome, true Pope and Head of the College of Bishops. He thus acquires and can exercise full and supreme power over the universal Church.

If the person elected is not already a Bishop, he shall immediately be ordained Bishop.

89. When the other formalities provided for in the Ordo Rituum Conclavis have been carried out, the Cardinal electors approach the newly-elected Pope in the prescribed manner, in order to make an act of homage and obedience. An act of thanksgiving to God is then made, after which the senior Cardinal Deacon announces to the waiting people that the election has taken place and proclaims the name of the new Pope, who immedi- ately thereafter imparts the Apostolic Blessing Urbi et Orbi from the balcony of the Vatican Basilica.

If the person elected is not already a Bishop, homage is paid to him and the announcement of his election is made only after he has been solemnly ordained Bishop.

90. If the person elected resides outside Vatican City, the norms contained in the Ordo Rituum Conclavis are to be observed.

If the newly-elected Supreme Pontiff is not already a Bishop, his episcopal ordination, referred to in Nos. 88 and 89 of the present Constitution, shall be carried out according to the usage of the Church by the Dean of the College of Cardinals or, in his absence, by the Subdean or, should he too be prevented from doing so, by the senior Cardinal Bishop.

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_constitutions/documents/hf_jp-ii_apc_22021996_universi-dominici-gregis_en.html
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Offline Nephi

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #103 on: March 12, 2013, 10:17:28 PM »
Well, colloquially, words can mean anything. It's supposed to refer to antiquity, though.

This definition,"of or from a long time ago, having lasted for a very long time" seems to fit the described context perfectly.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2013, 10:17:49 PM by Nephi »

Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #104 on: March 12, 2013, 10:24:32 PM »
Are they really only limited to Cardinals?  I am hoping an Eastern Catholic bishop gets elected.   ;D
They aren't even limited to bishops.  Technically, any male Catholic is eligible.

Would a layperson made Pope be immediately made a bishop or something? In order to perform Mass, etc.

Yes.
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Offline choy

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #105 on: March 12, 2013, 10:25:07 PM »
Are they really only limited to Cardinals?  I am hoping an Eastern Catholic bishop gets elected.   ;D
They aren't even limited to bishops.  Technically, any male Catholic is eligible.

Would a layperson made Pope be immediately made a bishop or something? In order to perform Mass, etc.

The male selected would have to go through ordination to the diaconate, priesthood, and then be ordained a bishop. This would take some time, so obviously he would not be elevated to the papacy immediately.

If he were married, he and his wife would have to agree to separate before he could be ordained.

As Pope he could dispense himself from this.

He can't dispense stuff until he becomes a Pope.  A Pope is a bishop.  Bishops are celibate.

Offline choy

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #106 on: March 12, 2013, 10:26:01 PM »
I was watching Fox News this afternoon (which interestingly enough featured both a radically right-wing Zionist commercial and a commercial calling for acceptance of homosexual marriage) and they called it an "ancient ritual." I'm not sure if that came from ignorance of the election rite's age or ignorance of what period "ancient" refers to.

I'd consider a thousand years "ancient," in the sense that it's very old. After all, "ancient" has other definitons that don't refer specifically to the "ancient Greeks and Romans," etc.

RCs believe in many stuff to be ancient which actually just originated in Trent, which is 500 years old.

Offline William

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #107 on: March 12, 2013, 10:29:38 PM »
Well, colloquially, words can mean anything. It's supposed to refer to antiquity, though.

This definition,"of or from a long time ago, having lasted for a very long time" seems to fit the described context perfectly.
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Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #108 on: March 12, 2013, 10:35:26 PM »
Are they really only limited to Cardinals?  I am hoping an Eastern Catholic bishop gets elected.   ;D

Some Eastern Catholic bishops are also cardinals, aren't they?
Since they would be required to wear the red at this conclave, they would be indistinguishable from their Latin counterparts.

How many Eastern Catholic "cardinals" are attending this conclave?

There are eight Eastern Catholic Cardinals.  Four were eligible to vote in conclave.  One anomaly is that the Patriarch emeritus of the Coptic Catholics is eligible to vote while the current Patriarch was enthroned 3/12/13 and isn't a cardinal.
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Offline Nephi

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #109 on: March 12, 2013, 10:41:24 PM »
Well, colloquially, words can mean anything. It's supposed to refer to antiquity, though.

This definition,"of or from a long time ago, having lasted for a very long time" seems to fit the described context perfectly.
Actually click the link I provided.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2013, 10:41:47 PM by Nephi »

Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #110 on: March 12, 2013, 10:42:24 PM »
Are they really only limited to Cardinals?  I am hoping an Eastern Catholic bishop gets elected.   ;D
They aren't even limited to bishops.  Technically, any male Catholic is eligible.

Would a layperson made Pope be immediately made a bishop or something? In order to perform Mass, etc.

The male selected would have to go through ordination to the diaconate, priesthood, and then be ordained a bishop. This would take some time, so obviously he would not be elevated to the papacy immediately.

If he were married, he and his wife would have to agree to separate before he could be ordained.

As Pope he could dispense himself from this.

He can't dispense stuff until he becomes a Pope.  A Pope is a bishop.  Bishops are celibate.
So he would be celibate for a few days before ordination and dispense himself once he was Pope.
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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #111 on: March 12, 2013, 10:44:45 PM »
"Media myopia in Rome" Good op-ed by Kathleen Parker in tomorrow's Washington Post. What she says about Catholicism and modern secularism applies to the Orthodox as well. http://m.washingtonpost.com/opinions/kathleen-parker-media-at-vatican-misread-the-catholic-mission/2013/03/12/dfa64724-8b4e-11e2-b63f-f53fb9f2fcb4_story.html

Offline Maria

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #112 on: March 12, 2013, 10:49:57 PM »
Are they really only limited to Cardinals?  I am hoping an Eastern Catholic bishop gets elected.   ;D
They aren't even limited to bishops.  Technically, any male Catholic is eligible.

Would a layperson made Pope be immediately made a bishop or something? In order to perform Mass, etc.

The male selected would have to go through ordination to the diaconate, priesthood, and then be ordained a bishop. This would take some time, so obviously he would not be elevated to the papacy immediately.

If he were married, he and his wife would have to agree to separate before he could be ordained.

As Pope he could dispense himself from this.

He can't dispense stuff until he becomes a Pope.  A Pope is a bishop.  Bishops are celibate.
So he would be celibate for a few days before ordination and dispense himself once he was Pope.

That possible but not probable scenario is one reason why a married man would never be elected pope.


Oh, this in from NBC and AP.
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/11/17213060-conclave-smoke-signals-a-bit-of-a-gray-area?lite

Quote
"Innovation is not in its DNA," Bellitto explained. "And nobody does ritual like the Catholic Church."

Seems like NBC and AP choose to ignore the Eastern Orthodox Church as nobody does ritual like the Orthodox!

Indeed, most of the rules of this papal conclave are post-1900. The smoking stoves are a recent innovation as are the bug sweeping high tech devices that are employed prior to the beginning of the conclave.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2013, 10:51:10 PM by Maria »
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Offline William

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #113 on: March 12, 2013, 10:50:53 PM »
Well, colloquially, words can mean anything. It's supposed to refer to antiquity, though.

This definition,"of or from a long time ago, having lasted for a very long time" seems to fit the described context perfectly.
Actually click the link I provided.
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Offline choy

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #114 on: March 12, 2013, 10:52:18 PM »
Seems like NBC and AP choose to ignore the Eastern Orthodox Church as nobody does ritual like the Orthodox!

We don't have to be insecure about it.  We don't need the attention of the liberal media who only seeks to ridicule the Catholic Church anyway.  Had they have more awareness of the Orthodox Church, they'd ridicule us as well.

Offline choy

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #115 on: March 12, 2013, 10:53:19 PM »
He can't dispense stuff until he becomes a Pope.  A Pope is a bishop.  Bishops are celibate.
So he would be celibate for a few days before ordination and dispense himself once he was Pope.

And we just created a case study as to why Pastor Aeternus is wrong.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2013, 10:53:27 PM by choy »

Offline Nephi

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #116 on: March 12, 2013, 10:55:48 PM »
Well, colloquially, words can mean anything. It's supposed to refer to antiquity, though.

This definition,"of or from a long time ago, having lasted for a very long time" seems to fit the described context perfectly.
Actually click the link I provided.

And you obviously didn't, otherwise you'd have seen the distinction between the formal and informal (colloquial) definitions.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2013, 10:56:05 PM by Nephi »

Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #117 on: March 12, 2013, 10:56:22 PM »
I found a photo of the procession today into the Sistine Chapel on Huff-Po, On the left side of the photo in the back you can see an Eastern Catholic Patriarch-Cardinal in traditional dress. I think he is the Syro-Malabar Patriarch, but I could very well be wrong.



Link to the article here. Apologies that the article is a bit tongue-in-cheek (I mean, it is Huff-Po), but it had the photo I was looking for!

That is the Syro-Malankar Archbishop although the Syro-Malabar Archbishop is there as well but his outfit is the same as the Latins with a slightly different biretta.

Correction.  I just found a picture of the Syro-Malabar Archbishop and he was wearing a red riassa.
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Offline William

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #118 on: March 12, 2013, 10:59:51 PM »
Well, colloquially, words can mean anything. It's supposed to refer to antiquity, though.

This definition,"of or from a long time ago, having lasted for a very long time" seems to fit the described context perfectly.
Actually click the link I provided.

And you obviously didn't, otherwise you'd have seen the distinction between the formal and informal (colloquial) definitions.

Ancient is not a subjective term. It refers to a specific period. You cannot say ancient architecture and be referring to Baroque stuff, although the Baroque style is certainly "of a long time ago".

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Offline Maria

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #119 on: March 12, 2013, 11:03:30 PM »
Seems like NBC and AP choose to ignore the Eastern Orthodox Church as nobody does ritual like the Orthodox!

We don't have to be insecure about it.  We don't need the attention of the liberal media who only seeks to ridicule the Catholic Church anyway.  Had they have more awareness of the Orthodox Church, they'd ridicule us as well.

Just repeating what the Antiochians have been saying for a long time: that Orthodoxy is the best kept secret in the USA.
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Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #120 on: March 12, 2013, 11:04:42 PM »
That possible but not probable scenario is one reason why a married man would never be elected pope.

It has already happened.  Pope Adrian II.
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Offline Maria

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #121 on: March 12, 2013, 11:05:03 PM »
I found a photo of the procession today into the Sistine Chapel on Huff-Po, On the left side of the photo in the back you can see an Eastern Catholic Patriarch-Cardinal in traditional dress. I think he is the Syro-Malabar Patriarch, but I could very well be wrong.



Link to the article here. Apologies that the article is a bit tongue-in-cheek (I mean, it is Huff-Po), but it had the photo I was looking for!

That is the Syro-Malankar Archbishop although the Syro-Malabar Archbishop is there as well but his outfit is the same as the Latins with a slightly different biretta.

Correction.  I just found a picture of the Syro-Malabar Archbishop and he was wearing a red riassa.

Is this the Syro-Malabar Archbishop pictured in this photo, and not the Syro-Malankar Archbishop?
« Last Edit: March 12, 2013, 11:06:41 PM by Maria »
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Offline Maria

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #122 on: March 12, 2013, 11:05:48 PM »
That possible but not probable scenario is one reason why a married man would never be elected pope.

It has already happened.  Pope Adrian II.

How long ago? Before the Great Schism of 1054?
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Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #123 on: March 12, 2013, 11:19:41 PM »
I found a photo of the procession today into the Sistine Chapel on Huff-Po, On the left side of the photo in the back you can see an Eastern Catholic Patriarch-Cardinal in traditional dress. I think he is the Syro-Malabar Patriarch, but I could very well be wrong.



Link to the article here. Apologies that the article is a bit tongue-in-cheek (I mean, it is Huff-Po), but it had the photo I was looking for!

That is the Syro-Malankar Archbishop although the Syro-Malabar Archbishop is there as well but his outfit is the same as the Latins with a slightly different biretta.

Correction.  I just found a picture of the Syro-Malabar Archbishop and he was wearing a red riassa.

Is this the Syro-Malabar Archbishop pictured in this photo, and not the Syro-Malankar Archbishop?
No, it is the Syro-Malankar Archbishop.  I was correcting the statement the Syro-Malabar wore Latin choir dress.
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Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #124 on: March 12, 2013, 11:21:22 PM »
That possible but not probable scenario is one reason why a married man would never be elected pope.

It has already happened.  Pope Adrian II.

How long ago? Before the Great Schism of 1054?
Yes, 867.
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Offline Nephi

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #125 on: March 12, 2013, 11:24:24 PM »
Ancient is not a subjective term. It refers to a specific period. You cannot say ancient architecture and be referring to Baroque stuff, although the Baroque style is certainly "of a long time ago".

Don't let your jimmies get rustled over being wrong.

Is it at all necessary to be rude? I was pointing out that it was a formal definition given by the Cambridge dictionary, as compared to an informal one they listed, and fit the context you gave. If you could, please show me that the definition is wrong and I'll gladly admit that I was mistaken, and I'll maybe learn something in the process.

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #126 on: March 12, 2013, 11:30:36 PM »
That possible but not probable scenario is one reason why a married man would never be elected pope.

It has already happened.  Pope Adrian II.

How long ago? Before the Great Schism of 1054?

Yes, 867.

No wonder. The climate now in the Roman Catholic Church is decidedly against any married man being elected as a Bishop or as a Pope. However, back in 867 before the Great Schism, it was still possible for a married man to be elected as a Pope.
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Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #127 on: March 12, 2013, 11:36:52 PM »
That possible but not probable scenario is one reason why a married man would never be elected pope.

It has already happened.  Pope Adrian II.

How long ago? Before the Great Schism of 1054?

Yes, 867.

No wonder. The climate now in the Roman Catholic Church is decidedly against any married man being elected as a Bishop or as a Pope. However, back in 867 before the Great Schism, it was still possible for a married man to be elected as a Pope.
Even at this time celibacy had been imposed and they disputed with the East about it.
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Offline Maria

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #128 on: March 12, 2013, 11:38:06 PM »
That possible but not probable scenario is one reason why a married man would never be elected pope.

It has already happened.  Pope Adrian II.

How long ago? Before the Great Schism of 1054?

Yes, 867.

No wonder. The climate now in the Roman Catholic Church is decidedly against any married man being elected as a Bishop or as a Pope. However, back in 867 before the Great Schism, it was still possible for a married man to be elected as a Pope.
Even at this time celibacy had been imposed and they disputed with the East about it.

Exactly, but with the passage of time, the West became even more hardened against marriage.
Thus, electing a married man at this particular conclave would be almost impossible, save a miracle.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2013, 11:38:51 PM by Maria »
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Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #129 on: March 12, 2013, 11:43:33 PM »
That possible but not probable scenario is one reason why a married man would never be elected pope.

It has already happened.  Pope Adrian II.

How long ago? Before the Great Schism of 1054?

Yes, 867.

No wonder. The climate now in the Roman Catholic Church is decidedly against any married man being elected as a Bishop or as a Pope. However, back in 867 before the Great Schism, it was still possible for a married man to be elected as a Pope.
Even at this time celibacy had been imposed and they disputed with the East about it.

Exactly, but with the passage of time, the West became even more hardened against marriage.
Thus, electing a married man at this particular conclave would be almost impossible, save a miracle.

Sure, but it is also unlikely in the extreme that they would go outside the College of Cardinals at all.
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Offline Maria

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #130 on: March 12, 2013, 11:54:06 PM »
That possible but not probable scenario is one reason why a married man would never be elected pope.

It has already happened.  Pope Adrian II.

How long ago? Before the Great Schism of 1054?

Yes, 867.

No wonder. The climate now in the Roman Catholic Church is decidedly against any married man being elected as a Bishop or as a Pope. However, back in 867 before the Great Schism, it was still possible for a married man to be elected as a Pope.
Even at this time celibacy had been imposed and they disputed with the East about it.

Exactly, but with the passage of time, the West became even more hardened against marriage.
Thus, electing a married man at this particular conclave would be almost impossible, save a miracle.

Sure, but it is also unlikely in the extreme that they would go outside the College of Cardinals at all.

When was the last time that the "tight-knit" College of Cardinals (with all their bickering aside) elected a man outside of their own?
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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #131 on: March 13, 2013, 12:15:17 AM »
That's actually a great question
I got nothing.
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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #132 on: March 13, 2013, 12:53:42 AM »
Pope Urban VI in 1378.
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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #133 on: March 13, 2013, 12:55:23 AM »
Has there been a time when a man elected Pope refused to accept?  ???

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #134 on: March 13, 2013, 01:03:31 AM »
Has there been a time when a man elected Pope refused to accept?  ???

A man?

Which one: a layman, a priest, a bishop, or a cardinal? Or does it matter?
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