Author Topic: Conclave and a New Pope  (Read 18372 times)

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Offline Peter J

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #450 on: March 14, 2013, 04:33:24 PM »
I just want to thank all of the Orthodox Christians on this forum for their kind and congratulatory words concerning our new Pope. You have all shown great grace and understanding about what a special time this is for Catholics.

I really find it funny that the Orthodox has been generally more warm and welcoming of the new Pope than some Roman Catholics.
"You can please some of the people some of the time, all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but you can never please all of the people all of the time."
Abraham Lincoln

I'm still wondering why they want to stay Roman Catholics.

Well, it would be difficult to become, say, Ambrosian Catholic (unless one lives in Milan or wants to move there). But some do become Eastern Catholic.
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Offline William

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #451 on: March 14, 2013, 04:38:59 PM »
I just want to thank all of the Orthodox Christians on this forum for their kind and congratulatory words concerning our new Pope. You have all shown great grace and understanding about what a special time this is for Catholics.

I really find it funny that the Orthodox has been generally more warm and welcoming of the new Pope than some Roman Catholics.
"You can please some of the people some of the time, all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but you can never please all of the people all of the time."
Abraham Lincoln

I'm still wondering why they want to stay Roman Catholics.

Well, it would be difficult to become, say, Ambrosian Catholic (unless one lives in Milan or wants to move there). But some do become Eastern Catholic.

Of all the things you could get hung up on...
Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Offline Peter J

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #452 on: March 14, 2013, 04:44:15 PM »
I just want to thank all of the Orthodox Christians on this forum for their kind and congratulatory words concerning our new Pope. You have all shown great grace and understanding about what a special time this is for Catholics.

I really find it funny that the Orthodox has been generally more warm and welcoming of the new Pope than some Roman Catholics.
"You can please some of the people some of the time, all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but you can never please all of the people all of the time."
Abraham Lincoln

I'm still wondering why they want to stay Roman Catholics.

Well, it would be difficult to become, say, Ambrosian Catholic (unless one lives in Milan or wants to move there). But some do become Eastern Catholic.

Of all the things you could get hung up on...

You mean if, say, someone was really serious about Ambrosian-Rite Catholicism, they would just move to Milan?
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Offline choy

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #453 on: March 14, 2013, 04:49:35 PM »
I just want to thank all of the Orthodox Christians on this forum for their kind and congratulatory words concerning our new Pope. You have all shown great grace and understanding about what a special time this is for Catholics.

I really find it funny that the Orthodox has been generally more warm and welcoming of the new Pope than some Roman Catholics.
"You can please some of the people some of the time, all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but you can never please all of the people all of the time."
Abraham Lincoln

I'm still wondering why they want to stay Roman Catholics.

Well, it would be difficult to become, say, Ambrosian Catholic (unless one lives in Milan or wants to move there). But some do become Eastern Catholic.

Ultra-trads believe the Pope is a heretic.  I don't think being anywhere in the communion of Catholic Churches would change that.

Offline Peter J

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #454 on: March 14, 2013, 05:27:08 PM »
I just want to thank all of the Orthodox Christians on this forum for their kind and congratulatory words concerning our new Pope. You have all shown great grace and understanding about what a special time this is for Catholics.

I really find it funny that the Orthodox has been generally more warm and welcoming of the new Pope than some Roman Catholics.
"You can please some of the people some of the time, all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but you can never please all of the people all of the time."
Abraham Lincoln

I'm still wondering why they want to stay Roman Catholics.

Well, it would be difficult to become, say, Ambrosian Catholic (unless one lives in Milan or wants to move there). But some do become Eastern Catholic.

Ultra-trads believe the Pope is a heretic.  I don't think being anywhere in the communion of Catholic Churches would change that.

Ultra-trads who consider the Pope a heretic usually don't stay in communion with him. (Granted, we did recently hear from one who receives communion from a Catholic priest, but I would assume that's rare.)
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Offline choy

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #455 on: March 14, 2013, 05:42:41 PM »
Ultra-trads who consider the Pope a heretic usually don't stay in communion with him. (Granted, we did recently hear from one who receives communion from a Catholic priest, but I would assume that's rare.)

All I have to say to you is... SSPX

Offline biro

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #456 on: March 14, 2013, 05:44:16 PM »
Weren't they received back into the RCC's fold not too long ago? I realize there are other groups of similar traditionalist ways, but I thought they ended the standoff between the RCC and the SSPX.
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Offline choy

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #457 on: March 14, 2013, 05:46:32 PM »
Weren't they received back into the RCC's fold not too long ago? I realize there are other groups of similar traditionalist ways, but I thought they ended the standoff between the RCC and the SSPX.

No.  Pope Benedict said he will resolve the issue but didn't.  The excommunications were lifted but they still do not have a regular status within the Church.  I think today the SSPX have divided among the Williamson group and the Fellay group.  The Fellay group is the most likely to be regularized with the RCC, the Williamson group, they're just being hypocrites today by pretending they are not sedevacantists.  Most of them are already.

Offline Tallitot

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #458 on: March 14, 2013, 06:03:38 PM »
Is he choosing Francis after francis of Assisi or francis Xavier?
Proverbs 22:7

Offline choy

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #459 on: March 14, 2013, 06:04:01 PM »
Is he choosing Francis after francis of Assisi or francis Xavier?

Assisi

Offline JoeS2

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The other side of the coin maybe?
« Reply #460 on: March 14, 2013, 06:20:56 PM »
New Pope Tied to Argentina's Dirty War | Global Research

http://www.globalresearch.ca/new-pope-tied-to-argentinas-dirty-war/5326816

Offline Benjamin the Red

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #461 on: March 14, 2013, 06:28:04 PM »
I imagine the newly elected Pope, Francis I, has a relationship with His Eminence Metropolitan Tarasios of Buenos Aries, the Holy Metropolis of South America, a see of the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople----Metropolitan Tarasios is a former Deacon to Patriarch Bartholomew, and an American from the State of Texas.  I'll guess he will be part of the Eastern Orthodox delegation to the enthronement of Pope Francis I.

Remembering how important it is here that we refer to clergy with their proper title, etc. I'd just like to note that the new Pope is Pope FRANCIS.  He is not Francis I, although he is, to date the first Pope with the name of Francis.  In order for him to be Francis I, there must first be a Francis II--and there isn't yet.  So...Pope Francis...........please  ;).  (Apologies if this has already been stated previously on this thread, but if it has it obviously bears repeating  ;D.)

The adding of "I" at the end of his name is driving me crazy, too.

The use of the "I" must be up to the pope himself to decide.  Cardinal Luciani did use it when he became John Paul I.

Truth. Wasn't Pope John Paul I the only Roman Pope in history to explicitly affirm the "I" after his name, the rest of them being conventions (as others took the name)?
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Offline Peter J

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #462 on: March 14, 2013, 09:04:18 PM »
I just want to thank all of the Orthodox Christians on this forum for their kind and congratulatory words concerning our new Pope. You have all shown great grace and understanding about what a special time this is for Catholics.

I really find it funny that the Orthodox has been generally more warm and welcoming of the new Pope than some Roman Catholics.
"You can please some of the people some of the time, all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but you can never please all of the people all of the time."
Abraham Lincoln

I'm still wondering why they want to stay Roman Catholics.

Well, it would be difficult to become, say, Ambrosian Catholic (unless one lives in Milan or wants to move there). But some do become Eastern Catholic.

Ultra-trads believe the Pope is a heretic.  I don't think being anywhere in the communion of Catholic Churches would change that.

Ultra-trads who consider the Pope a heretic usually don't stay in communion with him. (Granted, we did recently hear from one who receives communion from a Catholic priest, but I would assume that's rare.)

Ultra-trads who consider the Pope a heretic usually don't stay in communion with him. (Granted, we did recently hear from one who receives communion from a Catholic priest, but I would assume that's rare.)

All I have to say to you is... SSPX

OIC. (Well, hopefully I see now. At first I thought you were asking why people remain Roman-Rite Catholic, then I thought you were talking about sedevacantist.)

I'm not sure how many SSPX fans consider the pope to be a heretic, but I don't know why those people stay in full communion with him.
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Offline #1Sinner

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #463 on: March 14, 2013, 09:17:09 PM »
Mass under Pope Francis:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3RJK0yULkCY#!

I guess I won't be tempted into going back anytime soon...

Ah, I see you've been hanging out around the SSPX circles.

You are long on name calling and insults and short on knowledge. "SSPXers" simply want the Church to be what it once was before the Modernists deployed their program of destruction 50 years ago. I wonder how many Orthodox would simply sit back and shut-up as their Church was destroyed by enemies. Traditional Roman Catholics are justifiably furious with what has happened to the Church and now we have a pope who celebrates masses that look like they have more in common with a circus.

Really easy to mouth off from where you are sitting, isn't it?
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Offline Shiny

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #464 on: March 14, 2013, 09:23:18 PM »
popcorn.gif
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Offline Father H

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #465 on: March 14, 2013, 09:37:34 PM »
Mass under Pope Francis:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3RJK0yULkCY#!

I guess I won't be tempted into going back anytime soon...

Ah, I see you've been hanging out around the SSPX circles.

You are long on name calling and insults and short on knowledge. "SSPXers" simply want the Church to be what it once was before the Modernists deployed their program of destruction 50 years ago. I wonder how many Orthodox would simply sit back and shut-up as their Church was destroyed by enemies. Traditional Roman Catholics are justifiably furious with what has happened to the Church and now we have a pope who celebrates masses that look like they have more in common with a circus.

Really easy to mouth off from where you are sitting, isn't it?

It is easy for us to mouth off from where we are sitting (and I hope most fellow Orthodox Christians appreciate that).  Some in the SSPX are a tough crowd, though, with all their videos on JPII and Benedict being the beasts and "antichrist" and all that, and not even talking to others who are still under Rome.  Still, no, we Orthodox would not sit back and shut-up.  But the newly elected pope's future cannot be entirely predicted to the negative by this video, no?         

Offline John Larocque

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #466 on: March 14, 2013, 10:14:57 PM »
The Anglicanization of the Roman Missal in 1970 (after the manner of the Book of Common Prayer), and the suppression of the Old Mass, much of whose text, including the Roman Canon, dates before the schism, is really at the heart it, along with a partial rejection of Vatican II. What marks Catholic traditionalists different from their Orthodox counterparts is that that Catholic theology requires them to be in communion with the Bishop of Rome (from which sprang the rupture with tradition). The non-application (in practice) of Summorum Pontificum within the borders of Buenos Aires was justly a cause of alarm for those who saw the Church heading in the right direction under Pope Benedict.

In the Latin West, there isn't much of a link between the law and prayer and the law of belief. Roman Catholic "orthodoxy" - as people perceive of it in the media or in the pew, is based on doctrine, not the law of prayer. A great number of Roman Catholic parishes have a Mass that has more in common with broad church (and low church) Anglicans than the pre-Conciliar norm. A "first among equals" ecclesiology, combined with Protestantized praxis, makes the Roman church more Anglican, not more Orthodox. But the Catholics still have the Pope and the Virgin Mary. I think the "pope emeritus" understood the link between prayer and belief, describing the devastation of the seminaries and the loss of faith from what he called the "false" Council of the media. The new pope, not so much. He may however prove to be a better instrument in cleaning out the rot within the Curia.



Offline choy

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #467 on: March 14, 2013, 10:44:08 PM »
Mass under Pope Francis:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3RJK0yULkCY#!

I guess I won't be tempted into going back anytime soon...

Ah, I see you've been hanging out around the SSPX circles.

You are long on name calling and insults and short on knowledge. "SSPXers" simply want the Church to be what it once was before the Modernists deployed their program of destruction 50 years ago. I wonder how many Orthodox would simply sit back and shut-up as their Church was destroyed by enemies. Traditional Roman Catholics are justifiably furious with what has happened to the Church and now we have a pope who celebrates masses that look like they have more in common with a circus.

Really easy to mouth off from where you are sitting, isn't it?

No, SSPXers just want their toy that was taken away from them.  There is nothing in their actions that shows me genuine Christian spirituality.  They're filled with hubris and deceit.  They don't want the traditions back because of any underlying spiritual reason, they want it because they want to boast to those who don't kneel to receive Communion or those who don't pray in Latin that they are better than them.

Offline choy

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #468 on: March 14, 2013, 10:44:50 PM »
OIC. (Well, hopefully I see now. At first I thought you were asking why people remain Roman-Rite Catholic, then I thought you were talking about sedevacantist.)

I'm not sure how many SSPX fans consider the pope to be a heretic, but I don't know why those people stay in full communion with him.

SSPX, sedevacantist.  Po-tey-tow, po-tah-tow.

Look, even if they don't outwardly proclaim the Pope to be a heretic, the fact that they view the Pauline Mass as invalid, and the Pope celebrates in the Ordinary Form... 1 + 1 always equals 2. You can't say, "the Pope is not heretic but he celebrates an invalid and heretical Mass."
« Last Edit: March 14, 2013, 10:46:11 PM by choy »

Offline TheMathematician

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #469 on: March 14, 2013, 10:45:28 PM »
Mass under Pope Francis:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3RJK0yULkCY#!

I guess I won't be tempted into going back anytime soon...

Ah, I see you've been hanging out around the SSPX circles.

You are long on name calling and insults and short on knowledge. "SSPXers" simply want the Church to be what it once was before the Modernists deployed their program of destruction 50 years ago. I wonder how many Orthodox would simply sit back and shut-up as their Church was destroyed by enemies. Traditional Roman Catholics are justifiably furious with what has happened to the Church and now we have a pope who celebrates masses that look like they have more in common with a circus.

Really easy to mouth off from where you are sitting, isn't it?

No, SSPXers just want their toy that was taken away from them.  There is nothing in their actions that shows me genuine Christian spirituality.  They're filled with hubris and deceit.  They don't want the traditions back because of any underlying spiritual reason, they want it because they want to boast to those who don't kneel to receive Communion or those who don't pray in Latin that they are better than them.

Honest question, why do you have such a hatred, or so it seems, for the SSPX?

Offline choy

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #470 on: March 14, 2013, 10:48:24 PM »
Honest question, why do you have such a hatred, or so it seems, for the SSPX?

Just calling them out for the frauds that they are.  Even though I am no longer Catholic, I'm still saddened that the Church is being deceived and destroyed by within from them.  They will say its the modernist liberals who are destroying the Catholic Church, and that is true as well. This is not an either-or, they're just two sides of the same coin.

Offline William

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #471 on: March 14, 2013, 10:52:55 PM »
Mass under Pope Francis:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3RJK0yULkCY#!

I guess I won't be tempted into going back anytime soon...

Ah, I see you've been hanging out around the SSPX circles.

You are long on name calling and insults and short on knowledge. "SSPXers" simply want the Church to be what it once was before the Modernists deployed their program of destruction 50 years ago. I wonder how many Orthodox would simply sit back and shut-up as their Church was destroyed by enemies. Traditional Roman Catholics are justifiably furious with what has happened to the Church and now we have a pope who celebrates masses that look like they have more in common with a circus.

Really easy to mouth off from where you are sitting, isn't it?

No, SSPXers just want their toy that was taken away from them.  There is nothing in their actions that shows me genuine Christian spirituality.  They're filled with hubris and deceit.  They don't want the traditions back because of any underlying spiritual reason, they want it because they want to boast to those who don't kneel to receive Communion or those who don't pray in Latin that they are better than them.

So it's wrong to be against masses like the one I linked to? Why don't we see DLs like that?
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Offline choy

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #472 on: March 14, 2013, 11:07:55 PM »
So it's wrong to be against masses like the one I linked to? Why don't we see DLs like that?

Have you been to every Divine Liturgy celebrated around the world in the past Sunday?

And sure, you can have your disagreements with anything, but it is the spirit by how everything is done.  As Scripture says, by their fruits you will know them.  SSPXers want tradition but have no love.

Offline William

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #473 on: March 14, 2013, 11:12:26 PM »
So it's wrong to be against masses like the one I linked to? Why don't we see DLs like that?

Have you been to every Divine Liturgy celebrated around the world in the past Sunday?

Orthodox liturgies are known for being traditional and non-innovative when it comes to stuff like incorporating pop songs, dancing, instruments, etc. If you have evidence to the contrary, please provide it.
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Offline LBK

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #474 on: March 14, 2013, 11:15:18 PM »
So it's wrong to be against masses like the one I linked to? Why don't we see DLs like that?

Have you been to every Divine Liturgy celebrated around the world in the past Sunday?

And sure, you can have your disagreements with anything, but it is the spirit by how everything is done.  As Scripture says, by their fruits you will know them.  SSPXers want tradition but have no love.

choy, I think William was trying to say that Orthodoxy has preserved a proper and unwavering sense of sacred decorum and dignity in its liturgical praxis, and has not resorted to the sort of dumbing-down so often seen in modern non-Orthodox praxis.
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Offline John Larocque

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #475 on: March 14, 2013, 11:16:26 PM »
A lot of traditionalists are unhappy - for them there is nowhere else to go. Breaking communion with the pope of Rome is anathema - which is why even contemplating sedevacantism, such as Fr. Anthony Cekada, is looked upon as a horror and a scandal. Some of them have embraced parallel magisteriums - groups in quasi-communion with the Vatican (SSPX) or chasing after Marian revelations. If you stay, you're unhappy (but keeping true to your baptismal and confirmation promises). If you leave, you might be unhappy - eternally as well, because salvation is dependent upon communion with the Roman pontiff. So people put up with the temporal misery, and - in the name of the traditions they were taught - give conditional obedience to their church. And some of them are better people than others, and some worse.

( The Remnant newspaper once promoted a book "We Resist You to the Face" - where traditionalists were taking on the role of St. Paul against St. Peter from Acts, correcting him in his errors).
« Last Edit: March 14, 2013, 11:19:03 PM by John Larocque »

Offline William

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #476 on: March 14, 2013, 11:19:48 PM »
A lot of traditionalists are unhappy - for them there is nowhere else to go. Breaking communion with the pope of Rome is anathema - which is why even contemplating sedevacantism, such as Fr. Anthony Cekada, is looked upon as a horror and a scandal. Some of them have embraced parallel magisteriums - groups in quasi-communion with the Vatican (SSPX) or chasing after Marian revelations. If you stay, you're unhappy (but keeping true to your baptismal and confirmation promises). If you leave, you might be unhappy - eternally as well, because salvation is dependent upon communion with the Roman pontiff. So people put up with the temporal misery, and - in the name of the traditions they were taught - give conditional obedience to their church. And some of them are better people than others.

( The Remnant newspaper once promoted a book "We Resist You to the Face" - where traditionalists were taking on the role of St. Paul against St. Peter from Acts, correcting him in his errors).

I left and now I can look at masses like the one I linked and laugh. If I was still RC I'd probably get legitimately angry after seeing that video.
Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Offline Shiny

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #477 on: March 14, 2013, 11:53:30 PM »
I left and now I can look at masses like the one I linked and laugh. If I was still RC I'd probably get legitimately angry after seeing that video.
Agreed. It shows quite a lack of reverence.

I like Pope Francis though and wish him many years.
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Offline Maria

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #478 on: March 15, 2013, 12:01:50 AM »
So it's wrong to be against masses like the one I linked to? Why don't we see DLs like that?

Have you been to every Divine Liturgy celebrated around the world in the past Sunday?

And sure, you can have your disagreements with anything, but it is the spirit by how everything is done.  As Scripture says, by their fruits you will know them.  SSPXers want tradition but have no love.

choy, I think William was trying to say that Orthodoxy has preserved a proper and unwavering sense of sacred decorum and dignity in its liturgical praxis, and has not resorted to the sort of dumbing-down so often seen in modern non-Orthodox praxis.

True, that was what drew me into Orthodoxy.

I got tired of the clown masses, biki masses, and those where my choir sang, "Her name is Jesus."
Although I would sing "His name is Jesus," I could not take the discord with half the church singing "HIS" and the other half, "HER." I finally sent a note to the Bishop, and that was the first time that the pastor took notice.

To me that smelled like heresy. Of course, I was from the diocese of fruit cakes, flakes, and nuts under Cardinal Mahony.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2013, 12:03:41 AM by Maria »
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Offline William

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Re: The other side of the coin maybe?
« Reply #479 on: March 15, 2013, 12:04:24 AM »
New Pope Tied to Argentina's Dirty War | Global Research

http://www.globalresearch.ca/new-pope-tied-to-argentinas-dirty-war/5326816

That picture of him communing Videla...I mean...how can you just do that and stay a bishop in good standing?

Apparently that picture was taken when Videla was in prison, not when he was in power. My bad.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2013, 12:11:57 AM by William »
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Offline Shiny

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #480 on: March 15, 2013, 12:04:34 AM »
So it's wrong to be against masses like the one I linked to? Why don't we see DLs like that?

Have you been to every Divine Liturgy celebrated around the world in the past Sunday?

And sure, you can have your disagreements with anything, but it is the spirit by how everything is done.  As Scripture says, by their fruits you will know them.  SSPXers want tradition but have no love.

choy, I think William was trying to say that Orthodoxy has preserved a proper and unwavering sense of sacred decorum and dignity in its liturgical praxis, and has not resorted to the sort of dumbing-down so often seen in modern non-Orthodox praxis.

True, that was what drew me into Orthodoxy.

I got tired of the clown masses, biki masses, and those where my choir sang, "Her name is Jesus."
Although I would sing "His name is Jesus," I could not take the discord with half the church singing "HIS" and the other half, "HER." I finally sent a note to the Bishop, and that was the first time that the pastor took notice.

To me that smelled like heresy. Of course, I was from the diocese of fruit cakes, flakes, and nuts under Cardinal Mahony.
Biki masses? What's that short for, bikini?
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Offline Maria

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #481 on: March 15, 2013, 12:06:54 AM »
Yes, sorry.

Bikini masses.
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Offline bkovacs

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #482 on: March 15, 2013, 12:07:40 AM »
Mass under Pope Francis:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3RJK0yULkCY#!

I guess I won't be tempted into going back anytime soon...

Ah, I see you've been hanging out around the SSPX circles.



You are long on name calling and insults and short on knowledge. "SSPXers" simply want the Church to be what it once was before the Modernists deployed their program of destruction 50 years ago. I wonder how many Orthodox would simply sit back and shut-up as their Church was destroyed by enemies. Traditional Roman Catholics are justifiably furious with what has happened to the Church and now we have a pope who celebrates masses that look like they have more in common with a circus.

Really easy to mouth off from where you are sitting, isn't it?

I agree. I'm sure Byzantine Christians remember very well the Iconoclast controversy!!. SSPX and other "trads" want their beautiful liturgy and ethos back or maintained. Lets reverse the shoe. Take the iconostasis away, get rid of incense, Byzantine and Russian chant, and make those vestments plain looking. I bet many Byzantine Christians would have a fit. Centuries old traditions replaced by modern ones, with Bishops or Metropolitans  who place the external trappings last on the priority list. Get what I'm saying here. The pre-vatican 2 times are to the SSPX, SSPV, other trads, as important as Hagia Sophia is to Byzantine Christians. Have some compassion!.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2013, 12:08:19 AM by bkovacs »
"We knew not whether we were in heaven or on earth, for surely there is no such splendor or beauty anywhere on earth." The Divine Liturgy at Hagia Sophia.

Offline Maria

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #483 on: March 15, 2013, 12:13:30 AM »
Mass under Pope Francis:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3RJK0yULkCY#!

I guess I won't be tempted into going back anytime soon...

Ah, I see you've been hanging out around the SSPX circles.



You are long on name calling and insults and short on knowledge. "SSPXers" simply want the Church to be what it once was before the Modernists deployed their program of destruction 50 years ago. I wonder how many Orthodox would simply sit back and shut-up as their Church was destroyed by enemies. Traditional Roman Catholics are justifiably furious with what has happened to the Church and now we have a pope who celebrates masses that look like they have more in common with a circus.

Really easy to mouth off from where you are sitting, isn't it?

I agree. I'm sure Byzantine Christians remember very well the Iconoclast controversy!!. SSPX and other "trads" want their beautiful liturgy and ethos back or maintained. Lets reverse the shoe. Take the iconostasis away, get rid of incense, Byzantine and Russian chant, and make those vestments plain looking. I bet many Byzantine Christians would have a fit. Centuries old traditions replaced by modern ones, with Bishops or Metropolitans  who place the external trappings last on the priority list. Get what I'm saying here. The pre-vatican 2 times are to the SSPX, SSPV, other trads, as important as Hagia Sophia is to Byzantine Christians. Have some compassion!.

Good post. Yes, many Roman Catholics who join the Eastern Catholic Churches have a refugee mentality, and the Latin Catholic Hierarchs know this and make it very difficult for those Catholics to cross over to the East. So, many "Catholic" refugees try to join the Orthodox Church, but some priests in the OCA are aware of this, and make those Catholics wait three years before they are received. Now, consider this, if you were a devout Catholic and were told that you could not receive Holy Communion for three years, that would be devastating.

Back on topic.

From the Papal mass today, it seems like the Pope will be good for the Catholic Church.
At least he had the charity to establish immediately a Traditional Latin Mass for his diocese.
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Offline William

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #484 on: March 15, 2013, 12:16:42 AM »
At least he had the charity to establish immediately a Traditional Latin Mass for his diocese.

What?
Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Offline Maria

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #485 on: March 15, 2013, 12:19:53 AM »
At least he had the charity to establish immediately a Traditional Latin Mass for his diocese.

What?

Now I will have to try to locate that source.
I checked CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC, FOX, etc.
Several news sources talked about Pope Francis' background in Argentina.
When Pope Benedict asked the Bishops to start having the extraordinary form of the Liturgy (The Traditional Latin Mass), then Cardinal Bergoglio was one of the first bishops to comply without hesitation.
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Offline John Larocque

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #486 on: March 15, 2013, 12:21:08 AM »

Offline William

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #487 on: March 15, 2013, 12:22:31 AM »
At least he had the charity to establish immediately a Traditional Latin Mass for his diocese.

What?

Now I will have to try to locate that source.
I checked CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC, FOX, etc.
Several news sources talked about Pope Francis' background in Argentina.
When Pope Benedict asked the Bishops to start having the extraordinary form of the Liturgy (The Traditional Latin Mass), then Cardinal Bergoglio was one of the first bishops to comply without hesitation.


I've heard the exact opposite.
Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #488 on: March 15, 2013, 12:24:12 AM »
At least he had the charity to establish immediately a Traditional Latin Mass for his diocese.

What?

Now I will have to try to locate that source.
I checked CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC, FOX, etc.
Several news sources talked about Pope Francis' background in Argentina.
When Pope Benedict asked the Bishops to start having the extraordinary form of the Liturgy (The Traditional Latin Mass), then Cardinal Bergoglio was one of the first bishops to comply without hesitation.


I've heard the exact opposite.

The news source said that he established ONE TLM in ONE PARISH for the entire diocese. Now, that is a very charitable act even though those wanting to attend would have to travel two to three hours one way.
 ::)
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Offline Maria

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #489 on: March 15, 2013, 12:31:22 AM »
Re: TLM in Buenos Aires.

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2013/03/how-summorum-pontificum-was-blocked-and.html


Thanks for that source.
That was not the news story that I read.
However, I remember when I was going to Mass in Los Angeles and Cardinal Mahony only allowed one TLM for the entire diocese. With high gas prices and congested freeways, it was very hard to attend regularly especially when the location of the mass rotated between two to four parishes. Sometimes they would have one, and sometimes not.

We finally attended the Melkite Church and within three years, left and became Orthodox Catechumens.
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Offline choy

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #490 on: March 15, 2013, 12:32:59 AM »
At least he had the charity to establish immediately a Traditional Latin Mass for his diocese.

What?

Now I will have to try to locate that source.
I checked CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC, FOX, etc.
Several news sources talked about Pope Francis' background in Argentina.
When Pope Benedict asked the Bishops to start having the extraordinary form of the Liturgy (The Traditional Latin Mass), then Cardinal Bergoglio was one of the first bishops to comply without hesitation.


I've heard the exact opposite.

The news source said that he established ONE TLM in ONE PARISH for the entire diocese. Now, that is a very charitable act even though those wanting to attend would have to travel two to three hours one way.
 ::)

This is faulty logic.  Fact is, there aren't people in a diocese to support the number of TLMs the traddies are asking for.  For example, the Archbishop of Vancouver is a supporter of the TLM, and yet in such a big area he still only has one parish run by the FSSP, and another parish on the other end of the diocese where the parish priest does one TLM every Sunday (on top of 2 OF Masses).  Fact is, the greater majority of Roman Catholics are happy with the OF.  The Bishop isn't going to establish a TLM two blocks from a Traddie even though they are the only one within an hour's drive away from that parish who is interested in going.

Offline William

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #491 on: March 15, 2013, 12:34:15 AM »
At least he had the charity to establish immediately a Traditional Latin Mass for his diocese.

What?

Now I will have to try to locate that source.
I checked CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC, FOX, etc.
Several news sources talked about Pope Francis' background in Argentina.
When Pope Benedict asked the Bishops to start having the extraordinary form of the Liturgy (The Traditional Latin Mass), then Cardinal Bergoglio was one of the first bishops to comply without hesitation.


I've heard the exact opposite.

The news source said that he established ONE TLM in ONE PARISH for the entire diocese. Now, that is a very charitable act even though those wanting to attend would have to travel two to three hours one way.
 ::)

This is faulty logic.  Fact is, there aren't people in a diocese to support the number of TLMs the traddies are asking for.  For example, the Archbishop of Vancouver is a supporter of the TLM, and yet in such a big area he still only has one parish run by the FSSP, and another parish on the other end of the diocese where the parish priest does one TLM every Sunday (on top of 2 OF Masses).  Fact is, the greater majority of Roman Catholics are happy with the OF.  The Bishop isn't going to establish a TLM two blocks from a Traddie even though they are the only one within an hour's drive away from that parish who is interested in going.

According to your good buddies at Rorate, though, Buenos Aires has plenty of trads.
Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Offline choy

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #492 on: March 15, 2013, 12:34:54 AM »
I agree. I'm sure Byzantine Christians remember very well the Iconoclast controversy!!. SSPX and other "trads" want their beautiful liturgy and ethos back or maintained. Lets reverse the shoe. Take the iconostasis away, get rid of incense, Byzantine and Russian chant, and make those vestments plain looking. I bet many Byzantine Christians would have a fit. Centuries old traditions replaced by modern ones, with Bishops or Metropolitans  who place the external trappings last on the priority list. Get what I'm saying here. The pre-vatican 2 times are to the SSPX, SSPV, other trads, as important as Hagia Sophia is to Byzantine Christians. Have some compassion!.

Already happened and some actually want to keep it that way.  Besides, again it is not just about wanting to restore the tradition.  It is the spirit and the method they are trying to achieve that.

Offline choy

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #493 on: March 15, 2013, 12:35:51 AM »
According to your good buddies at Rorate, though, Buenos Aires has plenty of trads.

They can claim all they want.  Like I said earlier, they are deceitful.

Offline William

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #494 on: March 15, 2013, 12:36:52 AM »
According to your good buddies at Rorate, though, Buenos Aires has plenty of trads.

They can claim all they want.  Like I said earlier, they are deceitful.

Some of them are Argentine.
Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant