Author Topic: Conclave and a New Pope  (Read 19168 times)

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Offline Benjamin the Red

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #315 on: March 13, 2013, 06:57:12 PM »
Quote
The new pope took the name Francis in honor of St. Francis of Assisi because he is a lover of the poor, Vatican spokesman the Rev. Tom Rosica told CNN.

Link.
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Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #316 on: March 13, 2013, 07:00:31 PM »
Videos of his Masses look like reverent Ordinary form Masses.
My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #317 on: March 13, 2013, 07:10:02 PM »
No Orthodox Patriarch is spiritual father of 1 billion +.  If the Pope had the flock of a single nation or a few million souls I doubt there would be much fanfare.

Irrelevant. Orthodoxy isn't about being popular or mighty. It's about defending and proclaiming the truth.

Come on kids, cut it out. My point was simple. Patriarchal selection and deposition has historically been as flawed as that of the Roman popes. For example, look up Emperor Romanus I and his choice of his fourth son, 16 year old Theophylact, for the Patriarchal throne to succeed the aged once deposed and  twice enthroned Nicholas Mysticus. Poor Theophylact was castrated first so that he would not be unduly distracted from his churchly duties - something that perhaps should have been considered for Alexander Sixtus by the Curia.

This isn't a criticism of the current Patriarch, but come on, as an example, the current Patriarch of the "Third Rome" certainly projects a sense of power, fancy vestiture and media savvy as well as any Pope could hope for.


The one in Second Rome does too, if he can get the media to pay attention...

Agreed and I would argue that those attributes are a positive in today's world.

Offline AntonI

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #318 on: March 13, 2013, 07:12:55 PM »
Lord Almighty - reading a particular forum one would think that the Anti-Christ has taken over the Papacy and we are soon to be getting wummin priests, dancing masses, no fancy tat and persecution of all faithful priests celebrating the traditional mass.

Also he apparently destroyed the Argentinian Church.

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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #319 on: March 13, 2013, 07:23:29 PM »
Did any one else notice that in his address, His Holiness kept referring to himself as "a bishop" and "the Bishop of Rome" ?

Yes and his comment on the conclave was translated as being its mission to "appoint" a Bishop of Rome rather than "elect" a Pope. I don't read tea leaves but I pray it signals a return to more collegiality among the Bishops and less "imperium" from the Bishop of Rome. That would be welcomed by the Orthodox.

Offline Maria

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #320 on: March 13, 2013, 07:25:43 PM »
The new Pope Francis I showed his approval of things charismatic when he asked the people at St. Peter's to pray for him, and he bowed his head for that moment of silence. That was a first.

Note how he also bowed his head and knelt down to accept prayers from both Protestant Pentecostals and Catholic Priests alike at this Catholic and Evangelical Renewal convention of the "III Encuentro Fraterno organizado por la fundación CRECES (Comunión Renovada de Evangélicos y Católicos en el Espíritu Santo)." Scroll down to view this photo.

http://ceirberea.blogdiario.com/1154140980/

That Catholic Charismatics have met and prayed at the Vatican is not new, but this was the first Pope to ask the laity to pray for him at his first appearance immediately following his election.
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Offline choy

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #321 on: March 13, 2013, 07:29:50 PM »
Lord Almighty - reading a particular forum one would think that the Anti-Christ has taken over the Papacy and we are soon to be getting wummin priests, dancing masses, no fancy tat and persecution of all faithful priests celebrating the traditional mass.

Also he apparently destroyed the Argentinian Church.

THE WORLD IS DOOMED!  DOOMED I SAY!

Fisheaters?

Offline choy

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #322 on: March 13, 2013, 07:30:30 PM »
My ultra-traddie SSPXer "friend" on FB blew his top when he found out who the new Pope is.

Offline Peter J

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #323 on: March 13, 2013, 07:34:24 PM »
Melkites and Antiochian Orthodox have the best relations of all the Vatican caused schisms.  Many Antiochians don't look at the Melkites as different, will (unofficially) allow intercommunion (almost officially), etc.  The Melkites insist on many the same conditions we do for reunion, and would work not only for that but for the Orthodox in general, in Antioch and elsewhere, as well.

Incidentally, 0.71% of Argentina is Melkite (300000).

Granted that's not a huge percentage, but compared with the fact that only 0.01% of the USA is Melkite ...
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Offline AntonI

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #324 on: March 13, 2013, 07:38:10 PM »
Quote
Fisheaters?

I expect the Papal Installation ceremony to be changed with Pope Francis ("call me Francie") sitting down having a tete-a-tete with Rev Nicky Gumble and having an Alpha-Course ceremony.  Whilst lighting is striking down St Peters.  And clown mass in the background.  

Hopefully a nice public burning of a traditionalist or two.  Apparently they make good fuel.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 07:38:57 PM by AntonI »
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Offline mike

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #325 on: March 13, 2013, 07:39:17 PM »
That Catholic Charismatics have met and prayed at the Vatican is not new, but this was the first Pope to ask the laity to pray for him at his first appearance immediately following his election.

And what's wrong with that?

Offline Papist

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #326 on: March 13, 2013, 07:39:59 PM »
Did any one else notice that in his address, His Holiness kept referring to himself as "a bishop" and "the Bishop of Rome" ?

Yes and his comment on the conclave was translated as being its mission to "appoint" a Bishop of Rome rather than "elect" a Pope. I don't read tea leaves but I pray it signals a return to more collegiality among the Bishops and less "imperium" from the Bishop of Rome. That would be welcomed by the Orthodox.
I think it was deliberate, as he didn't mention the word "Pope" once.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline Papist

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #327 on: March 13, 2013, 07:39:59 PM »
The new Pope Francis I showed his approval of things charismatic when he asked the people at St. Peter's to pray for him, and he bowed his head for that moment of silence. That was a first.

Note how he also bowed his head and knelt down to accept prayers from both Protestant Pentecostals and Catholic Priests alike at this Catholic and Evangelical Renewal convention of the "III Encuentro Fraterno organizado por la fundación CRECES (Comunión Renovada de Evangélicos y Católicos en el Espíritu Santo)." Scroll down to view this photo.

http://ceirberea.blogdiario.com/1154140980/

That Catholic Charismatics have met and prayed at the Vatican is not new, but this was the first Pope to ask the laity to pray for him at his first appearance immediately following his election.
Yes, traditionalists are all perspiring heavily right now. We will have to wait and see.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline Papist

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #328 on: March 13, 2013, 07:39:59 PM »
My ultra-traddie SSPXer "friend" on FB blew his top when he found out who the new Pope is.
We traddies are just a bit worried about his joint prayer meetings with protestants, and his apparent ambivalence to the TLM. That being said, God may raise him up and make the Holy Father into a saintly pope.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline choy

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #329 on: March 13, 2013, 07:40:18 PM »
Quote
Fisheaters?

I expect the Papal Installation ceremony to be changed with Pope Francis ("call me Francie") sitting down having a tete-a-tete with Rev Nicky Gumble and having an Alpha-Course ceremony.  Whilst lighting is striking down St Peters.  And clown mass in the background.  

Hopefully a nice public burning of a traditionalist or two.  Apparently they make good fuel.

Don't they self-ignite at the sight of things they consider "modernist"?

Offline choy

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #330 on: March 13, 2013, 07:41:19 PM »
My ultra-traddie SSPXer "friend" on FB blew his top when he found out who the new Pope is.
We traddies are just a bit worried about his joint prayer meetings with protestants, and his apparent ambivalence to the TLM. That being said, God may raise him up and make the Holy Father into a saintly pope.

Oh no, this guy is beyond worried.

Quote
From what I can tell, this guy is the worst modernist to be elected pope since Vatican II..I knew a chastisement was coming, I didn't expect this.

Offline AntonI

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #331 on: March 13, 2013, 07:42:04 PM »
Quote
And what's wrong with that?

It shows he is a *look around* L-I-B-E-R-A-L.  Bent on destroying traditional.  Ruining the See of St Peter.  Bringing himself down to the same level as the masses.

EVIL!  EVIL!  *makes sign of the cross, throws salt over shoulder and whip ones back*

Quote
Don't they self-ignite at the sight of things they consider "modernist"?

Don't be silly.  That's an Orthodox schismatic heresy.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 07:44:04 PM by AntonI »
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Offline choy

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #332 on: March 13, 2013, 07:43:36 PM »
Bringing himself down to the same level as the masses.

Yes, because Christ called on our bishops to be kings and emperors, rulers of all.



*INFALLIBLE SARCASM*

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #333 on: March 13, 2013, 07:44:34 PM »
Quote
Fisheaters?

I expect the Papal Installation ceremony to be changed with Pope Francis ("call me Francie") sitting down having a tete-a-tete with Rev Nicky Gumble and having an Alpha-Course ceremony.  Whilst lighting is striking down St Peters.  And clown mass in the background.  

Hopefully a nice public burning of a traditionalist or two.  Apparently they make good fuel.

Don't they self-ignite at the sight of things they consider "modernist"?

Well, their Orthodox counterparts have been known to do so.   ;) ;)

Offline choy

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #334 on: March 13, 2013, 07:45:09 PM »
Quote
Fisheaters?

I expect the Papal Installation ceremony to be changed with Pope Francis ("call me Francie") sitting down having a tete-a-tete with Rev Nicky Gumble and having an Alpha-Course ceremony.  Whilst lighting is striking down St Peters.  And clown mass in the background.  

Hopefully a nice public burning of a traditionalist or two.  Apparently they make good fuel.

Don't they self-ignite at the sight of things they consider "modernist"?

Well, their Orthodox counterparts have been known to do so.   ;) ;)

No, we just OUTRAGE!  ;D

Offline mike

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #335 on: March 13, 2013, 07:49:14 PM »
Machine translation from Ukrainian:

Quote
Head of the UGCC MAbp Sviatoslav Shevchuk: "The newly elected Pope Francisco and is a disciple of our priest Stephen Chmil, now buried in the Basilica of St. Sophia in Rome. Current Pope, then a student of the Salesian school every morning were all his colleagues were still asleep, served to Fr. Chmil during the Divine Liturgy. He knows our rite and even remembers our Liturgy. Last time I visited him when I was departing Argentina, upon leaving for Ukraine, and asked that he give his testimony for beatification process of Fr. Chmil, to which he readily agreed. Therefore, the Holy Father knows very well our Church, and our Liturgy and rites, and our spirituality. "

https://www.facebook.com/r.andrusyak/posts/439443279475007

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #336 on: March 13, 2013, 07:49:39 PM »
Wise choice of a south american.
Quote from: Orthonorm
if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.

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Ουκ ελαττωθήσονται παντός αγαθού

Offline choy

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #337 on: March 13, 2013, 07:50:20 PM »
Machine translation from Ukrainian:

Quote
Head of the UGCC MAbp Sviatoslav Shevchuk: "The newly elected Pope Francisco and is a disciple of our priest Stephen Chmil, now buried in the Basilica of St. Sophia in Rome. Current Pope, then a student of the Salesian school every morning were all his colleagues were still asleep, served to Fr. Chmil during the Divine Liturgy. He knows our rite and even remembers our Liturgy. Last time I visited him when I was departing Argentina, upon leaving for Ukraine, and asked that he give his testimony for beatification process of Fr. Chmil, to which he readily agreed. Therefore, the Holy Father knows very well our Church, and our Liturgy and rites, and our spirituality. "

https://www.facebook.com/r.andrusyak/posts/439443279475007

I hope he railroads the granting of Patriarchal status to the UGCC.

Offline AntonI

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #338 on: March 13, 2013, 07:51:31 PM »
Quote
Well, their Orthodox counterparts have been known to do so.   

No, we just OUTRAGE! 


Well, yes.  

I am still waiting for the Divine Liturgy - Clown Style.  

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« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 07:52:36 PM by AntonI »
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Offline AGGreen

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #339 on: March 13, 2013, 07:53:39 PM »
Did any one else notice that in his address, His Holiness kept referring to himself as "a bishop" and "the Bishop of Rome" ?


***The pope IS the Bishop of Rome. That's his See.

tags editted - MK
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 08:02:22 PM by Michał Kalina »
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Offline choy

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #340 on: March 13, 2013, 07:56:37 PM »
Quote
Well, their Orthodox counterparts have been known to do so.   

No, we just OUTRAGE! 


Well, yes.  

I am still waiting for the Divine Liturgy - Clown Style.  

Clothes prepared by RuPaul.

That will never happen.  The Yaiyas and the Babas will see to that.

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #341 on: March 13, 2013, 07:57:36 PM »
Did any one else notice that in his address, His Holiness kept referring to himself as "a bishop" and "the Bishop of Rome" ?


***The pope IS the Bishop of Rome. That's his See.

tags editted - MK

I think we both know that - I was commenting on what seemed to be his emphasis on the See of Rome rather than the institutional papacy.


« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 08:02:49 PM by Michał Kalina »

Offline Papist

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #342 on: March 13, 2013, 07:58:14 PM »
Lord Almighty - reading a particular forum one would think that the Anti-Christ has taken over the Papacy and we are soon to be getting wummin priests, dancing masses, no fancy tat and persecution of all faithful priests celebrating the traditional mass.

Also he apparently destroyed the Argentinian Church.

THE WORLD IS DOOMED!  DOOMED I SAY!

Fisheaters?
You have to understand that we are all just a little frustrated. I mean, proper liturgy should not depend on if we happen to have the right Pope in Rome.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline Papist

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #343 on: March 13, 2013, 07:58:14 PM »
My ultra-traddie SSPXer "friend" on FB blew his top when he found out who the new Pope is.
We traddies are just a bit worried about his joint prayer meetings with protestants, and his apparent ambivalence to the TLM. That being said, God may raise him up and make the Holy Father into a saintly pope.

Oh no, this guy is beyond worried.

Quote
From what I can tell, this guy is the worst modernist to be elected pope since Vatican II..I knew a chastisement was coming, I didn't expect this.
Haha. Fair enough. I see what you mean. Though I have my concerns as well.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline Papist

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #344 on: March 13, 2013, 07:58:14 PM »
Ok, now I see the crazies. There is some rad-trad saying that he wants to see the "apostates bleed to death" when Rome is restored. Clearly this guy is a crazy person.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline Papist

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #345 on: March 13, 2013, 07:58:21 PM »
Did any one else notice that in his address, His Holiness kept referring to himself as "a bishop" and "the Bishop of Rome" ?

Yes and his comment on the conclave was translated as being its mission to "appoint" a Bishop of Rome rather than "elect" a Pope. I don't read tea leaves but I pray it signals a return to more collegiality among the Bishops and less "imperium" from the Bishop of Rome. That would be welcomed by the Orthodox.
That's probably some what of a good thing. The Church does not have to be as centralized as it is in order to remain faithful our beliefs about the Papacy.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline AntonI

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #346 on: March 13, 2013, 07:58:44 PM »
Oh dear Lord no.  

That's a part-time job.  Every other Thursday except the third week of the month when he goes to play bingo.  Mrs Goggins runs it the rest of the time, in between running the Post Office.

*taps nose* Supreme Pontiff.  That's where the moolah is, you mark my words.  Also, INQUISITION!  We all love the INQUISITION!

http://youtu.be/jbcyiFt5VEs
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 08:01:43 PM by AntonI »
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Offline choy

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #347 on: March 13, 2013, 08:02:52 PM »
Lord Almighty - reading a particular forum one would think that the Anti-Christ has taken over the Papacy and we are soon to be getting wummin priests, dancing masses, no fancy tat and persecution of all faithful priests celebrating the traditional mass.

Also he apparently destroyed the Argentinian Church.

THE WORLD IS DOOMED!  DOOMED I SAY!

Fisheaters?
You have to understand that we are all just a little frustrated. I mean, proper liturgy should not depend on if we happen to have the right Pope in Rome.

How about going out there and actually doing something?  I mean, there are problems with Liturgy with the Orthodox as well, but we don't complain about it as much as traddies would.  And to think the Orthodox outnumber the traddies.

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #348 on: March 13, 2013, 08:05:14 PM »
Did any one else notice that in his address, His Holiness kept referring to himself as "a bishop" and "the Bishop of Rome" ?

Yes and his comment on the conclave was translated as being its mission to "appoint" a Bishop of Rome rather than "elect" a Pope. I don't read tea leaves but I pray it signals a return to more collegiality among the Bishops and less "imperium" from the Bishop of Rome. That would be welcomed by the Orthodox.
That's probably some what of a good thing. The Church does not have to be as centralized as it is in order to remain faithful our beliefs about the Papacy.

We would argue the contrary. Rome's claims to universality and supremacy following Vatican I in particular, require intense centralization and the transfer of proper authority from regional ruling diocesan bishops to a central clearing house. We welcome the the strengthening of National Bishop Conferences, collegial decision making and consensus.

Offline choy

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #349 on: March 13, 2013, 08:08:26 PM »
Did any one else notice that in his address, His Holiness kept referring to himself as "a bishop" and "the Bishop of Rome" ?

Yes and his comment on the conclave was translated as being its mission to "appoint" a Bishop of Rome rather than "elect" a Pope. I don't read tea leaves but I pray it signals a return to more collegiality among the Bishops and less "imperium" from the Bishop of Rome. That would be welcomed by the Orthodox.
That's probably some what of a good thing. The Church does not have to be as centralized as it is in order to remain faithful our beliefs about the Papacy.

We would argue the contrary. Rome's claims to universality and supremacy following Vatican I in particular, require intense centralization and the transfer of proper authority from regional ruling diocesan bishops to a central clearing house. We welcome the the strengthening of National Bishop Conferences, collegial decision making and consensus.

Meh, the national episcopal conferences are part of the problem.  They replaced the national synods that used to exist.  Reinstate the Primates and the National Synods if you really want to de-centralize the Roman Church.

Offline Papist

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #350 on: March 13, 2013, 08:09:57 PM »
Lord Almighty - reading a particular forum one would think that the Anti-Christ has taken over the Papacy and we are soon to be getting wummin priests, dancing masses, no fancy tat and persecution of all faithful priests celebrating the traditional mass.

Also he apparently destroyed the Argentinian Church.

THE WORLD IS DOOMED!  DOOMED I SAY!

Fisheaters?
You have to understand that we are all just a little frustrated. I mean, proper liturgy should not depend on if we happen to have the right Pope in Rome.

How about going out there and actually doing something?  I mean, there are problems with Liturgy with the Orthodox as well, but we don't complain about it as much as traddies would.  And to think the Orthodox outnumber the traddies.
Many traddies are doing something: writing letters to and speaking with their bishops, supporting the FSSP, attending reverent liturgies, etc.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline LBK

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #351 on: March 13, 2013, 08:11:08 PM »
Quote
Well, their Orthodox counterparts have been known to do so.   

No, we just OUTRAGE! 


Well, yes.  

I am still waiting for the Divine Liturgy - Clown Style.  

Clothes prepared by RuPaul.

That will never happen.  The Yaiyas and the Babas will see to that.

Yup. We should all be grateful for these devout, no-nonsense and indomitable ladies.  :D
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Offline icecreamsandwich

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #352 on: March 13, 2013, 08:13:22 PM »
Congrats to the Roman Catholics amongst us, and those elsewhere :). Hopefully he'll be a really great Pope and help the Church through this time of its history...
Please correct me if I'm wrong - I'm still learning as I go along.

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #353 on: March 13, 2013, 08:14:49 PM »
Did any one else notice that in his address, His Holiness kept referring to himself as "a bishop" and "the Bishop of Rome" ?

Yes and his comment on the conclave was translated as being its mission to "appoint" a Bishop of Rome rather than "elect" a Pope. I don't read tea leaves but I pray it signals a return to more collegiality among the Bishops and less "imperium" from the Bishop of Rome. That would be welcomed by the Orthodox.
That's probably some what of a good thing. The Church does not have to be as centralized as it is in order to remain faithful our beliefs about the Papacy.

We would argue the contrary. Rome's claims to universality and supremacy following Vatican I in particular, require intense centralization and the transfer of proper authority from regional ruling diocesan bishops to a central clearing house. We welcome the the strengthening of National Bishop Conferences, collegial decision making and consensus.

Meh, the national episcopal conferences are part of the problem.  They replaced the national synods that used to exist.  Reinstate the Primates and the National Synods if you really want to de-centralize the Roman Church.

The journey of a thousand miles (or years) begins with a single step.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #354 on: March 13, 2013, 08:16:20 PM »
Machine translation from Ukrainian:

Quote
Head of the UGCC MAbp Sviatoslav Shevchuk: "The newly elected Pope Francisco and is a disciple of our priest Stephen Chmil, now buried in the Basilica of St. Sophia in Rome. Current Pope, then a student of the Salesian school every morning were all his colleagues were still asleep, served to Fr. Chmil during the Divine Liturgy. He knows our rite and even remembers our Liturgy. Last time I visited him when I was departing Argentina, upon leaving for Ukraine, and asked that he give his testimony for beatification process of Fr. Chmil, to which he readily agreed. Therefore, the Holy Father knows very well our Church, and our Liturgy and rites, and our spirituality. "

https://www.facebook.com/r.andrusyak/posts/439443279475007

I hope he railroads the granting of Patriarchal status to the UGCC.
Lord spare us.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Fabio Leite

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #355 on: March 13, 2013, 08:36:01 PM »
Did any one else notice that in his address, His Holiness kept referring to himself as "a bishop" and "the Bishop of Rome" ?

I did. I suppose it's just out of habit and because he certainly was a bit nervous and did not have a prepared speech.
Many energies, three persons, two natures, one God, one Church, one Baptism.

Offline choy

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #356 on: March 13, 2013, 08:40:25 PM »
Lord spare us.

From what?  Its not our communion.  I just want my old friends in the UGCC to be happy.

Offline Fabio Leite

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #357 on: March 13, 2013, 08:46:37 PM »
"As expected, Pope excomunicates all Brazilians. Maradona is new Secretary of State of Vatican."
The original title was "Pele is proclaimed a heresiarch".
Many energies, three persons, two natures, one God, one Church, one Baptism.

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #358 on: March 13, 2013, 08:57:23 PM »
Lord spare us.

From what?  Its not our communion.  I just want my old friends in the UGCC to be happy.

It's not so simple. Granting the UGCC Patriarchal status would infuriate the Russian Orthodox and the Russian nationalists and cause turmoil within the already splintered Orthodox groups in Ukraine. Pressure to grant autocephaly or a simple declaration of autocephaly would place great pressure upon and exacerbate tensions within Orthodoxy and its national churches. Realpolitik dictates against Papal action and the likelihood of Rome abandoning realpolitik seems remote at best.

Offline choy

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Re: Conclave and a New Pope
« Reply #359 on: March 13, 2013, 09:01:34 PM »
Lord spare us.

From what?  Its not our communion.  I just want my old friends in the UGCC to be happy.

It's not so simple. Granting the UGCC Patriarchal status would infuriate the Russian Orthodox and the Russian nationalists and cause turmoil within the already splintered Orthodox groups in Ukraine. Pressure to grant autocephaly or a simple declaration of autocephaly would place great pressure upon and exacerbate tensions within Orthodoxy and its national churches. Realpolitik dictates against Papal action and the likelihood of Rome abandoning realpolitik seems remote at best.

I know that ;)

As much as we "blame" the EP for not granting autocephally to the OCA to fix the jurisdictional mess in North America, why does Russia want to keep control of the Church in Ukraine?  It is a separate country now, they should just grant them autocephally.  The other Orthodox Churches there in schism will fall in line quickly if they are allowed to govern themselves.