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Author Topic: Conclave and a New Pope  (Read 13901 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #135 on: March 13, 2013, 01:04:37 AM »

Has there been a time when a man elected Pope refused to accept?  Huh

A man?

Which one: a layman, a priest, a bishop, or a cardinal? Or does it matter?

It doesn't matter.  Any man.
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« Reply #136 on: March 13, 2013, 01:12:29 AM »

Pope Urban VI in 1378.


Quote
On the death of Pope Gregory XI in 1378, a Roman mob surrounded the papal conclave to demand a Roman pope. The cardinals being under some haste and great pressure to avoid the return of the Papal seat to Avignon, Prignano was unanimously chosen Pope on 8 April 1378 as acceptable to the disunited[3] majority of French cardinals, taking the name Urban VI. Not being a Cardinal, he was not well known.

The Archbishop of Bari became Pope Urban VI, and his reign led to the Western Schism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Urban_VI



Help: Now I lost my bar with the link. How do I get that back?
I opened a window and put it back into position. Phew.

« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 01:21:20 AM by Maria » Logged

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« Reply #137 on: March 13, 2013, 01:16:44 AM »

From all the news stories that I have read, it seems highly improbable that a man outside the College of Cardinals will be elected Pope during this conclave, but that would be a shrewd move on the part of the Cardinals if they are trying to appease the Romans who want an Italian Pope.

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« Reply #138 on: March 13, 2013, 05:19:41 AM »

  I am hoping an Eastern Catholic bishop gets elected.   Grin
Me too! Smiley The former primate of the Ukrainian Greek-Catholic Church, major archbishop of Kiev emeritus Lubomir (Husar) is  even a cardinal. Cool
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« Reply #139 on: March 13, 2013, 10:48:22 AM »

For those interested, here is a link to the best live blog for the conclave - insightful and gets right to the point (read it from the bottom up):

http://metro.co.uk/2013/03/12/papal-conclave-live-blog-will-it-be-white-smoke-or-not-3537372/

Also, prayers for the Cardinals!
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 10:51:31 AM by AntonI » Logged

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« Reply #140 on: March 13, 2013, 10:49:40 AM »

So are we down to the Elite Eight?  Grin Cheesy
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« Reply #141 on: March 13, 2013, 10:58:45 AM »

So are we down to the Elite Eight?  Grin Cheesy

Can't wait until it's down to the Elite Four. Wink
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« Reply #142 on: March 13, 2013, 11:04:18 AM »

Three votes down.

Pope Benedict XVI was elected on the fourth vote.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/13/us-pope-succession-idUSBRE92808520130313
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« Reply #143 on: March 13, 2013, 11:23:58 AM »

Idk how many EC Cardinals are at the Conclave, I think only three or four (two Coptic, the sitting one and the retired one, the Syro-Malabar Patriarch and the Melkite Patriarch)

There are 4: Maronite, Coptic, Syro-Malabar, and Syro-Malankar. The Melchite one refused to become a cardinal.
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« Reply #144 on: March 13, 2013, 11:35:51 AM »

Idk how many EC Cardinals are at the Conclave, I think only three or four (two Coptic, the sitting one and the retired one, the Syro-Malabar Patriarch and the Melkite Patriarch)

There are 4: Maronite, Coptic, Syro-Malabar, and Syro-Malankar. The Melchite one refused to become a cardinal.

Marionite, not Melkite! Thanks for the correction. I can't keep those Syriacs straight!  Grin
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« Reply #145 on: March 13, 2013, 11:42:04 AM »

Me too! Smiley The former primate of the Ukrainian Greek-Catholic Church, major archbishop of Kiev emeritus Lubomir (Husar) is  even a cardinal. Cool

He is too old to vote.

Has there been a time when a man elected Pope refused to accept?  Huh

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1456472/

I recommend this movie.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 11:43:56 AM by Michał Kalina » Logged

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« Reply #146 on: March 13, 2013, 11:46:00 AM »

Me too! Smiley The former primate of the Ukrainian Greek-Catholic Church, major archbishop of Kiev emeritus Lubomir (Husar) is  even a cardinal. Cool

He is too old to vote.

He could, technically, still be elected though! But, over 80...doubtful he would be elected. I think that would make him the oldest pope at date of election, which, IIRC, Pope Benedict XVI currently holds. He was...78...?
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« Reply #147 on: March 13, 2013, 11:52:47 AM »

Glory to God for all things!

I had spent a good bit of time this morning writing out a heartfelt reply to include in this thread, its topic and subsidiary topics, but decided it would be best to wait and pray before posting. I'm getting better at that. So, as an ex-RC, all I have to say is this:........

______________________________________________________________ . (I John 2:19)

Pray for me a sinner, my Orthodox brothers and sisters.

Ivanov (Now, Theophan.... baptized Jan. 19 (Feast of The Theophany) into the Holy Orthodox Church. Address: 33 AD Pentecost Ave., Jerusalem, Holy Land... and beyond.
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« Reply #148 on: March 13, 2013, 11:55:12 AM »

Good morning, sir. How can we help you?
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« Reply #149 on: March 13, 2013, 12:00:24 PM »

Good morning to you, sir! I did a Profile revision while posting my message above. Perhaps there was a tech glitch. My message seems to be posted properly now. Let me know if I need to do something differently.

In ICXC,

Theophan
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« Reply #150 on: March 13, 2013, 12:02:31 PM »

I still do not understand:
a) the point of your post
b) the sense of your post
c) how is it related to thread's title
d) how is it related to Christian News
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« Reply #151 on: March 13, 2013, 12:06:48 PM »

That's not a bad idea.  Now, where's that suggestion box??  Wink

Choy for Pope!!  Grin  Uh oh...wait a minute...

Hey, I still have Catholic baptismal records Wink

Ooohhh, if that were to happen I don't know what I'll do first.  Abolish the Tridentine Mass and replace it with the Divine Liturgy?  Reinstate infant Communion and Confirmation?  I KNOW!  Anathemize the SSPX!  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

I'll keep Pastor Aeternus until I'm done 'doxing Rome Wink
We would have an epic battle over the Tridentine Mass. There would probably be light sabers invovled. I'm almost certain that yours would be red.
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« Reply #152 on: March 13, 2013, 12:06:48 PM »

They do need to reform the Curia and get rid of that abomination known as the Congregataion of the Oriental Churches.

When I was still a Franciscan and contemplating switching Rites, I knew a Ruthenian Rite priest who referred to the Congregation of the Oriental Churches as the Vatican's version of the Bureau of Indian Affairs.

Well, we Ruthenians are a pretty wild bunch  Wink.


I love Ruthenians! We have a lovely Ruthenian parish here in Albquerque. Smiley

Well, we're as loveable as we are wild  angel angel.

I've seen pictures of it (yes, it is beautiful!), and I think they produced a video of the Divine Liturgy, didn't they?  (Or am I thinking of somewhere else?)
I believe they have. The Ruthenian parish is like my second home.
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« Reply #153 on: March 13, 2013, 12:06:48 PM »

No Orthodox Patriarch is spiritual father of 1 billion +.  If the Pope had the flock of a single nation or a few million souls I doubt there would be much fanfare.

Irrelevant. Orthodoxy isn't about being popular or mighty. It's about defending and proclaiming the truth.

Come on kids, cut it out. My point was simple. Patriarchal selection and deposition has historically been as flawed as that of the Roman popes. For example, look up Emperor Romanus I and his choice of his fourth son, 16 year old Theophylact, for the Patriarchal throne to succeed the aged once deposed and  twice enthroned Nicholas Mysticus. Poor Theophylact was castrated first so that he would not be unduly distracted from his churchly duties - something that perhaps should have been considered for Alexander Sixtus by the Curia.

This isn't a criticism of the current Patriarch, but come on, as an example, the current Patriarch of the "Third Rome" certainly projects a sense of power, fancy vestiture and media savvy as well as any Pope could hope for.


My dear Podkarpatska, I was merely responding to Deacon Lance's rather boastful post, which equates numbers with a church's importance.  Smiley

No boast, a statement of fact.  The Pope is spiritual father to a billion + people, ergo the conclave gets a lot of fanfare and media coverage.  That was all I was commenting on.  Did you know the Coptic Catholics Synod elected a new patriarch 1/16/13 and enthroned him 3/12/13?  Probably not.  The media doesn't care so much.  It doesn't mean the Coptic Catholic are less important the the Latin Catholics.
LOL. In so many ways, they are. Although their (former?) primate I think was second in line taking the oath this morning, and they had a nice view of the back of his head (no one in the media recognized him).

I'd be curious how much play this gets in the media of, say, Finland or Greece, or Russia.  Or India.

The conclave gets a lot of fanfare....because it is designed for fanfare, like the British coronation, as revealed by the trouble being put into the simple burning of the ballots.  Everyone likes secrecy and suspense.  That the college has been enlarged to be somewhat more a representative body also helps: everyone likes to root for the home team.

Of course there is an importance that comes with numbers.  Chinese is spoken by over a billion people, and thus a world language.  It doesn't do you much good, however, outside of China.

I'm curious what would happen (and could it happen) if the Copts in submission to the Vatican adopted the method of the Orthodox Copts in selecting their Pope (ooops! Patriarch-Alexandria under the Vatican's rules isn't allowed to have its title), namely the child picking the name.  What would happen if their primate was so chosen-by the hand of God as it were-and the "supreme authority in the church" refused to confirm him?

That part, the child picking the name, done elsewhere in the Orthodox world too, is the only vaguely interesting thing of Orthodox episcopal elections, enthronements.  Otherwise, they are pretty much like the vote of the electoral college and its confirmation in the US, as opposed to the general election for President (where most people aren't aware they are electing electors), which resembles a conclave as far as interest goes.  Conventions have gone from that in the US to the hum drum of the electoral college and Orthodox episcopal selections, and the ratings show it.

Btw, nothing wrong with fanfare.
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« Reply #154 on: March 13, 2013, 12:11:18 PM »

That possible but not probable scenario is one reason why a married man would never be elected pope.

It has already happened.  Pope Adrian II.

How long ago? Before the Great Schism of 1054?

Yes, 867.

No wonder. The climate now in the Roman Catholic Church is decidedly against any married man being elected as a Bishop or as a Pope. However, back in 867 before the Great Schism, it was still possible for a married man to be elected as a Pope.
Even at this time celibacy had been imposed and they disputed with the East about it.

Exactly, but with the passage of time, the West became even more hardened against marriage.
Thus, electing a married man at this particular conclave would be almost impossible, save a miracle.

Sure, but it is also unlikely in the extreme that they would go outside the College of Cardinals at all.

When was the last time that the "tight-knit" College of Cardinals (with all their bickering aside) elected a man outside of their own?
1378. It was the start of their Great Schism.
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« Reply #155 on: March 13, 2013, 12:13:20 PM »

  I am hoping an Eastern Catholic bishop gets elected.   Grin
Me too! Smiley The former primate of the Ukrainian Greek-Catholic Church, major archbishop of Kiev emeritus Lubomir (Husar) is  even a cardinal. Cool
He lost the right to vote, however, between the announcement of the resignation and the sede vacans.  I was looking for him but did not see him. Did he come?

Some are rooting for his successor MAbp. Shevchuk.  That would make things interesting.
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« Reply #156 on: March 13, 2013, 12:13:45 PM »

That's not a bad idea.  Now, where's that suggestion box??  Wink

Choy for Pope!!  Grin  Uh oh...wait a minute...

Hey, I still have Catholic baptismal records Wink

Ooohhh, if that were to happen I don't know what I'll do first.  Abolish the Tridentine Mass and replace it with the Divine Liturgy?  Reinstate infant Communion and Confirmation?  I KNOW!  Anathemize the SSPX!  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

I'll keep Pastor Aeternus until I'm done 'doxing Rome Wink
We would have an epic battle over the Tridentine Mass. There would probably be light sabers invovled. I'm almost certain that yours would be red.

You will be 'doxed.  Resistance is futile.
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« Reply #157 on: March 13, 2013, 12:31:27 PM »

Thank you Michael,

I meant for this to appear in the already established forum "Christian News", and then the in the thread "Conclave and a new Pope". I wasn't attempting to start a new thread. Apparently I did something wrong. Perhaps if I had posted my original, lengthier reply your 4-point query would have been unnecessary. I appreciate your attentiveness to this. Given the initial difficulties, I think it best that you please not post my reply and follow-ups. I would ask that you help in that regard.

Again, I appreciate your helpfulness! If this particular thread had been a real-time conversation in the normal sense, I would have begun to speak as an ex-Romanist now Orthodox, and then, closed my mouth and let the silence that followed express my reply more poignantly. This was the "sense" of my post.

Forgive me.

Theophan
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« Reply #158 on: March 13, 2013, 12:33:31 PM »

Merged ^
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« Reply #159 on: March 13, 2013, 12:41:07 PM »

I was just checking a live feed for the sign of smoke at:  http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nbcnews.com/51133846/#51133846
and low and behold there's a seagull sitting on top of the chimney...lol
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« Reply #160 on: March 13, 2013, 12:48:26 PM »

I was just checking a live feed for the sign of smoke at:  http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nbcnews.com/51133846/#51133846
and low and behold there's a seagull sitting on top of the chimney...lol

Okay, the seagull has now been deposed by a larger seagull.  Let us discuss the theological symbolism of this.


 Grin Grin Grin
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« Reply #161 on: March 13, 2013, 12:49:27 PM »

I was just checking a live feed for the sign of smoke at:  http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nbcnews.com/51133846/#51133846
and low and behold there's a seagull sitting on top of the chimney...lol

Okay, the seagull has now been deposed by a larger seagull.  Let us discuss the theological symbolism of this.


 Grin Grin Grin

If it was dove we could say it was the Holy Spirit.
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« Reply #162 on: March 13, 2013, 12:54:46 PM »

The seagull now has several Twitter accounts:  St. Seagull: "Spending my days hanging at the Sistine Chapel. Bringing you behind the scenes updates from the chimney. "  

https://twitter.com/intent/userscreen_name=SaintSeagull&tw_i=311877626803412993&tw_p=tweetembed
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« Reply #163 on: March 13, 2013, 12:55:09 PM »

what Hugo( my all time favorite author in my all time favorite book  Smiley  ) says here, is found in all places where the power of money and authority reside. so I hope its understood what he is criticizing... during events such as this I think of the hearts that will break, those who might say ' I am not worthy' but really are fighting tooth and nail to get what they claim to be unworthy of.. I guess those who know what I am talking about know.. but just in case some get it mixed up, this is not in criticism of the Roman Church.. but a reflection on the human condition.

Quote
A bishop is almost always surrounded by a full squadron of little abbes, just as a general is by a covey of young officers. This is what that charming Saint Francois de Sales calls somewhere "les pretres blancs-becs," callow priests. Every career has its aspirants, who form a train for those who have attained eminence in it. There is no power which has not its dependents. There is no fortune which has not its court. The seekers of the future eddy around the splendid present. Every metropolis has its staff of officials. Every bishop who possesses the least influence has about him his patrol of cherubim from the seminary, which goes the round, and maintains good order in the episcopal palace, and mounts guard over monseigneur's smile. To please a bishop is equivalent to getting one's foot in the stirrup for a sub-diaconate. It is necessary to walk one's path discreetly; the apostleship does not disdain the canonship.
Just as there are bigwigs elsewhere, there are big mitres in the Church. These are the bishops who stand well at Court, who are rich, well endowed, skilful, accepted by the world, who know how to pray, no doubt, but who know also how to beg, who feel little scruple at making a whole diocese dance attendance in their person, who are connecting links between the sacristy and diplomacy, who are abbes rather than priests, prelates rather than bishops. Happy those who approach them! Being persons of influence, they create a shower about them, upon the assiduous and the favored, and upon all the young men who understand the art of pleasing, of large parishes, prebends, archidiaconates, chaplaincies, and cathedral posts, while awaiting episcopal honors. As they advance themselves, they cause their satellites to progress also; it is a whole solar system on the march. Their radiance casts a gleam of purple over their suite. Their prosperity is crumbled up behind the scenes, into nice little promotions. The larger the diocese of the patron, the fatter the curacy for the favorite. And then, there is Rome. A bishop who understands how to become an archbishop, an archbishop who knows how to become a cardinal, carries you with him as conclavist; you enter a court of papal jurisdiction, you receive the pallium, and behold! you are an auditor, then a papal chamberlain, then monsignor, and from a Grace to an Eminence is only a step, and between the Eminence and the Holiness there is but the smoke of a ballot. Every skull-cap may dream of the tiara. The priest is nowadays the only man who can become a king in a regular manner; and what a king! the supreme king. Then what a nursery of aspirations is a seminary! How many blushing choristers, how many youthful abbes bear on their heads Perrette's pot of milk! Who knows how easy it is for ambition to call itself vocation? in good faith, perchance, and deceiving itself, devotee that it is.

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/135/135-h/135-h.htm

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« Reply #164 on: March 13, 2013, 01:01:39 PM »

This seagull must be a Catholic, or perhaps an Orthodox spy.

He knows a nice smooth place to land, but he's smart and will lift off when the heat builds up.

http://metro.co.uk/2013/03/12/papal-conclave-live-blog-will-it-be-white-smoke-or-not-3537372/
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« Reply #165 on: March 13, 2013, 01:26:54 PM »

They seem to have moved on, except for one walking around on the roof.

The Twitter accounts appear to have been deleted.
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« Reply #166 on: March 13, 2013, 01:34:30 PM »

They seem to have moved on, except for one walking around on the roof.

The Twitter accounts appear to have been deleted.

"They" is vague.  laugh

Are the news media walking around on the roof? Or the seagulls?

I like the latest post:
Quote
Things Christmas and today have in common:

1. Chimneys.
2. An elderly man.
3. No smoke.

http://metro.co.uk/2013/03/12/papal-conclave-live-blog-will-it-be-white-smoke-or-not-3537372/
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 01:36:05 PM by Maria » Logged

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« Reply #167 on: March 13, 2013, 01:38:05 PM »

what Hugo( my all time favorite author in my all time favorite book  Smiley  ) says here, is found in all places where the power of money and authority reside. so I hope its understood what he is criticizing... during events such as this I think of the hearts that will break, those who might say ' I am not worthy' but really are fighting tooth and nail to get what they claim to be unworthy of.. I guess those who know what I am talking about know.. but just in case some get it mixed up, this is not in criticism of the Roman Church.. but a reflection on the human condition.

Quote
A bishop is almost always surrounded by a full squadron of little abbes, just as a general is by a covey of young officers. This is what that charming Saint Francois de Sales calls somewhere "les pretres blancs-becs," callow priests. Every career has its aspirants, who form a train for those who have attained eminence in it. There is no power which has not its dependents. There is no fortune which has not its court. The seekers of the future eddy around the splendid present. Every metropolis has its staff of officials. Every bishop who possesses the least influence has about him his patrol of cherubim from the seminary, which goes the round, and maintains good order in the episcopal palace, and mounts guard over monseigneur's smile. To please a bishop is equivalent to getting one's foot in the stirrup for a sub-diaconate. It is necessary to walk one's path discreetly; the apostleship does not disdain the canonship.
Just as there are bigwigs elsewhere, there are big mitres in the Church. These are the bishops who stand well at Court, who are rich, well endowed, skilful, accepted by the world, who know how to pray, no doubt, but who know also how to beg, who feel little scruple at making a whole diocese dance attendance in their person, who are connecting links between the sacristy and diplomacy, who are abbes rather than priests, prelates rather than bishops. Happy those who approach them! Being persons of influence, they create a shower about them, upon the assiduous and the favored, and upon all the young men who understand the art of pleasing, of large parishes, prebends, archidiaconates, chaplaincies, and cathedral posts, while awaiting episcopal honors. As they advance themselves, they cause their satellites to progress also; it is a whole solar system on the march. Their radiance casts a gleam of purple over their suite. Their prosperity is crumbled up behind the scenes, into nice little promotions. The larger the diocese of the patron, the fatter the curacy for the favorite. And then, there is Rome. A bishop who understands how to become an archbishop, an archbishop who knows how to become a cardinal, carries you with him as conclavist; you enter a court of papal jurisdiction, you receive the pallium, and behold! you are an auditor, then a papal chamberlain, then monsignor, and from a Grace to an Eminence is only a step, and between the Eminence and the Holiness there is but the smoke of a ballot. Every skull-cap may dream of the tiara. The priest is nowadays the only man who can become a king in a regular manner; and what a king! the supreme king. Then what a nursery of aspirations is a seminary! How many blushing choristers, how many youthful abbes bear on their heads Perrette's pot of milk! Who knows how easy it is for ambition to call itself vocation? in good faith, perchance, and deceiving itself, devotee that it is.

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/135/135-h/135-h.htm



Great quote, Hiwot!  As I read it in the light that you presented it, I couldn't help but think how appropriate it is, not only for Rome, but, as a reflection on the human condition, for the state of the Orthodox Church in America (and other places) as well, with all its seemingly endless "jurisdictional" issues.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 01:41:13 PM by J Michael » Logged

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« Reply #168 on: March 13, 2013, 01:38:58 PM »

They seem to have moved on, except for one walking around on the roof.

The Twitter accounts appear to have been deleted.

"They" is vague.  laugh

Are the news media walking around on the roof? Or the seagulls?


I'll never tell... angel
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« Reply #169 on: March 13, 2013, 01:39:26 PM »

They seem to have moved on, except for one walking around on the roof.

The Twitter accounts appear to have been deleted.

"They" is vague.  laugh

Are the news media walking around on the roof? Or the seagulls?

I like the latest post:
Quote
Things Christmas and today have in common:

1. Chimneys.
2. An elderly man.
3. No smoke.

http://metro.co.uk/2013/03/12/papal-conclave-live-blog-will-it-be-white-smoke-or-not-3537372/


You mean the news media are NOT seagulls?  With all the crap they deposit randomly all over the place?  Grin
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"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)
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« Reply #170 on: March 13, 2013, 01:40:55 PM »

They seem to have moved on, except for one walking around on the roof.

The Twitter accounts appear to have been deleted.

"They" is vague.  laugh

Are the news media walking around on the roof? Or the seagulls?


I'll never tell... angel


Oh, the suspense builds. People are so desperate. Perhaps "they" will bribe the seagull to tell all or put a recorder on one.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 01:41:48 PM by Maria » Logged

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« Reply #171 on: March 13, 2013, 01:43:00 PM »

They seem to have moved on, except for one walking around on the roof.

The Twitter accounts appear to have been deleted.

"They" is vague.  laugh

Are the news media walking around on the roof? Or the seagulls?

I like the latest post:
Quote
Things Christmas and today have in common:

1. Chimneys.
2. An elderly man.
3. No smoke.

http://metro.co.uk/2013/03/12/papal-conclave-live-blog-will-it-be-white-smoke-or-not-3537372/


You mean the news media are NOT seagulls?  With all the crap they deposit randomly all over the place?  Grin

And all the garbage they dig up.
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« Reply #172 on: March 13, 2013, 01:44:55 PM »

They seem to have moved on, except for one walking around on the roof.

The Twitter accounts appear to have been deleted.

"They" is vague.  laugh

Are the news media walking around on the roof? Or the seagulls?

I like the latest post:
Quote
Things Christmas and today have in common:

1. Chimneys.
2. An elderly man.
3. No smoke.

http://metro.co.uk/2013/03/12/papal-conclave-live-blog-will-it-be-white-smoke-or-not-3537372/


You mean the news media are NOT seagulls?  With all the crap they deposit randomly all over the place?  Grin

And all the garbage they dig up.

Priceless.
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« Reply #173 on: March 13, 2013, 02:00:52 PM »

what Hugo( my all time favorite author in my all time favorite book  Smiley  ) says here, is found in all places where the power of money and authority reside. so I hope its understood what he is criticizing... during events such as this I think of the hearts that will break, those who might say ' I am not worthy' but really are fighting tooth and nail to get what they claim to be unworthy of.. I guess those who know what I am talking about know.. but just in case some get it mixed up, this is not in criticism of the Roman Church.. but a reflection on the human condition.

Quote
A bishop is almost always surrounded by a full squadron of little abbes, just as a general is by a covey of young officers. This is what that charming Saint Francois de Sales calls somewhere "les pretres blancs-becs," callow priests. Every career has its aspirants, who form a train for those who have attained eminence in it. There is no power which has not its dependents. There is no fortune which has not its court. The seekers of the future eddy around the splendid present. Every metropolis has its staff of officials. Every bishop who possesses the least influence has about him his patrol of cherubim from the seminary, which goes the round, and maintains good order in the episcopal palace, and mounts guard over monseigneur's smile. To please a bishop is equivalent to getting one's foot in the stirrup for a sub-diaconate. It is necessary to walk one's path discreetly; the apostleship does not disdain the canonship.
Just as there are bigwigs elsewhere, there are big mitres in the Church. These are the bishops who stand well at Court, who are rich, well endowed, skilful, accepted by the world, who know how to pray, no doubt, but who know also how to beg, who feel little scruple at making a whole diocese dance attendance in their person, who are connecting links between the sacristy and diplomacy, who are abbes rather than priests, prelates rather than bishops. Happy those who approach them! Being persons of influence, they create a shower about them, upon the assiduous and the favored, and upon all the young men who understand the art of pleasing, of large parishes, prebends, archidiaconates, chaplaincies, and cathedral posts, while awaiting episcopal honors. As they advance themselves, they cause their satellites to progress also; it is a whole solar system on the march. Their radiance casts a gleam of purple over their suite. Their prosperity is crumbled up behind the scenes, into nice little promotions. The larger the diocese of the patron, the fatter the curacy for the favorite. And then, there is Rome. A bishop who understands how to become an archbishop, an archbishop who knows how to become a cardinal, carries you with him as conclavist; you enter a court of papal jurisdiction, you receive the pallium, and behold! you are an auditor, then a papal chamberlain, then monsignor, and from a Grace to an Eminence is only a step, and between the Eminence and the Holiness there is but the smoke of a ballot. Every skull-cap may dream of the tiara. The priest is nowadays the only man who can become a king in a regular manner; and what a king! the supreme king. Then what a nursery of aspirations is a seminary! How many blushing choristers, how many youthful abbes bear on their heads Perrette's pot of milk! Who knows how easy it is for ambition to call itself vocation? in good faith, perchance, and deceiving itself, devotee that it is.

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/135/135-h/135-h.htm



Great quote, Hiwot!  As I read it in the light that you presented it, I couldn't help but think how appropriate it is, not only for Rome, but, as a reflection on the human condition, for the state of the Orthodox Church in America (and other places) as well, with all its seemingly endless "jurisdictional" issues.

Indeed. you got it JM.
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« Reply #174 on: March 13, 2013, 02:03:03 PM »

New Pope. White Smoke & Bells
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« Reply #175 on: March 13, 2013, 02:04:47 PM »

"White smoke" billowing from the Sistine Chapel; bells are ringing!
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« Reply #176 on: March 13, 2013, 02:05:10 PM »

The seagull now has several Twitter accounts:  St. Seagull: "Spending my days hanging at the Sistine Chapel. Bringing you behind the scenes updates from the chimney. "  

https://twitter.com/intent/userscreen_name=SaintSeagull&tw_i=311877626803412993&tw_p=tweetembed
hopefully it is not dropping something off  Shocked
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                           and both come out of your mouth
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« Reply #177 on: March 13, 2013, 02:05:10 PM »

Oh geesh, the suspense is killing me. LOL
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« Reply #178 on: March 13, 2013, 02:05:38 PM »

Habemus Papam!
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« Reply #179 on: March 13, 2013, 02:06:38 PM »

White Smoke! We have a Pope!

Habemus Papam!
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