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Author Topic: No olive oil or no any kind of oil?  (Read 6226 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #45 on: March 11, 2013, 08:20:01 AM »

It doesn't count if it 5th or after that on the ingredients list.
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« Reply #46 on: March 11, 2013, 08:21:58 AM »

It doesn't count if it 5th or after that on the ingredients list.

I've heard many priests (married or monastic) give this advice.
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« Reply #47 on: March 11, 2013, 08:31:34 AM »

Holy fools were fond of eating sausages in Lent, but maybe, as Augustin points out, they fried them in water. Here, we fry one another in sarcasm, which produces a nice flavor, especially when washed down with moral superiority.

Best comment.
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« Reply #48 on: March 11, 2013, 09:09:59 AM »

It doesn't count if it 5th or after that on the ingredients list.

I've heard many priests (married or monastic) give this advice.

Which is why margarine is okay for oil-consuming days, despite being about 5% milk protein.
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« Reply #49 on: March 11, 2013, 09:33:25 AM »

It doesn't count if it 5th or after that on the ingredients list.

I've heard many priests (married or monastic) give this advice.

Which is why margarine is okay for oil-consuming days, despite being about 5% milk protein.

Not all margarines contain dairy. There are several brands available in any supermarket where I live which are dairy-free, suitable for those who are lactose-intolerant, or who are allergic to dairy products.  Smiley
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« Reply #50 on: March 11, 2013, 09:35:22 AM »

It doesn't count if it 5th or after that on the ingredients list.

I've heard many priests (married or monastic) give this advice.

Which is why margarine is okay for oil-consuming days, despite being about 5% milk protein.

Not all margarines contain dairy. There are several brands available in any supermarket where I live which are dairy-free, suitable for those who are lactose-intolerant, or who are allergic to dairy products.  Smiley

Extra bonus points to those Smiley But any ol' yellow tub will do the trick.
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« Reply #51 on: March 11, 2013, 09:39:47 AM »

It doesn't count if it 5th or after that on the ingredients list.

I've heard many priests (married or monastic) give this advice.

Which is why margarine is okay for oil-consuming days, despite being about 5% milk protein.

Not all margarines contain dairy. There are several brands available in any supermarket where I live which are dairy-free, suitable for those who are lactose-intolerant, or who are allergic to dairy products.  Smiley

Extra bonus points to those Smiley But any ol' yellow tub will do the trick.

Some of us use them out of necessity, Lent or no Lent.  Smiley But you're quite right, overzealous ingredient-watching kinda defeats the purpose of eating simply and without fuss.
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« Reply #52 on: March 11, 2013, 09:41:15 AM »

Holy fools were fond of eating sausages in Lent, but maybe, as Augustin points out, they fried them in water. Here, we fry one another in sarcasm, which produces a nice flavor, especially when washed down with moral superiority.
I'm sure you're the only one here to consider yourself superior - unlike the rest of us who have risen above that  angel!
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« Reply #53 on: March 11, 2013, 09:44:42 AM »

Holy fools were fond of eating sausages in Lent, but maybe, as Augustin points out, they fried them in water. Here, we fry one another in sarcasm, which produces a nice flavor, especially when washed down with moral superiority.
I'm sure you're the only one here to consider yourself superior - unlike the rest of us who have risen above that  angel!

Naughty, naughty genesisone! laugh laugh laugh
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« Reply #54 on: March 11, 2013, 10:13:28 AM »

It doesn't count if it 5th or after that on the ingredients list.

Or if it has the words "may".

"May contain milk"

Good for Lent  Grin Cheesy
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« Reply #55 on: March 11, 2013, 10:26:21 AM »

It doesn't count if it 5th or after that on the ingredients list.

I've heard many priests (married or monastic) give this advice.

Which is why margarine is okay for oil-consuming days, despite being about 5% milk protein.

Not all margarines contain dairy. There are several brands available in any supermarket where I live which are dairy-free, suitable for those who are lactose-intolerant, or who are allergic to dairy products.  Smiley

Extra bonus points to those Smiley But any ol' yellow tub will do the trick.

Some of us use them out of necessity, Lent or no Lent.  Smiley But you're quite right, overzealous ingredient-watching kinda defeats the purpose of eating simply and without fuss.

Yeah, I'm pretty much screwed.  Whenever I fast I am not eating simply and there is plenty of fuss (assuming you are using fuss as "unnecessary concern or effort").  McDonalds and Taco Bell are simple and without fuss.
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« Reply #56 on: March 11, 2013, 10:38:09 AM »

It doesn't count if it 5th or after that on the ingredients list.

I've heard many priests (married or monastic) give this advice.

Which is why margarine is okay for oil-consuming days, despite being about 5% milk protein.

Not all margarines contain dairy. There are several brands available in any supermarket where I live which are dairy-free, suitable for those who are lactose-intolerant, or who are allergic to dairy products.  Smiley

Extra bonus points to those Smiley But any ol' yellow tub will do the trick.

Some of us use them out of necessity, Lent or no Lent.  Smiley But you're quite right, overzealous ingredient-watching kinda defeats the purpose of eating simply and without fuss.

Yeah, I'm pretty much screwed.  Whenever I fast I am not eating simply and there is plenty of fuss (assuming you are using fuss as "unnecessary concern or effort").  McDonalds and Taco Bell are simple and without fuss.

McDonalds in Greece have a Lenten menu.

Talk about peer pressure. angel
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« Reply #57 on: March 11, 2013, 10:45:09 AM »

It doesn't count if it 5th or after that on the ingredients list.

I've heard many priests (married or monastic) give this advice.

Which is why margarine is okay for oil-consuming days, despite being about 5% milk protein.

Not all margarines contain dairy. There are several brands available in any supermarket where I live which are dairy-free, suitable for those who are lactose-intolerant, or who are allergic to dairy products.  Smiley

Extra bonus points to those Smiley But any ol' yellow tub will do the trick.

Some of us use them out of necessity, Lent or no Lent.  Smiley But you're quite right, overzealous ingredient-watching kinda defeats the purpose of eating simply and without fuss.

My first Lent I was the absolute epitome of the overzealous ingredient watcher. My wife first tried to talk me out of it (to no avail, I'm afraid) and eventually got so fed up with me that she went to our priest and told him that I was making myself ill (and, I imagine though I wasn't actually there, driving her mad). He then took me aside and said I needed to stop reading the labels (completely, no 5th ingredient doesn't count thing) - if it wasn't obvious that it wasn't lenten without scouring the label then I was to take it as being fine. That was some of the best advice on fasting I ever got.

James

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« Reply #58 on: March 11, 2013, 10:54:38 AM »

just to confuse things further~~~olive oil is definitly out.......but olives are ok Roll Eyes

I asked a GOA bishop this once. Why are olives ok but not olive oil? There followed a long discourse on fasting - but in a nutshell it seemed to be, "because this is the way we do it."

 Grin
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« Reply #59 on: March 11, 2013, 11:13:17 AM »

McDonalds in Greece have a Lenten menu.

Same in Cyprus
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« Reply #60 on: March 11, 2013, 11:44:10 AM »

McDonalds in Greece have a Lenten menu.

Same in Cyprus


McSarakosti... heh.
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« Reply #61 on: March 11, 2013, 11:51:08 AM »

Let me see: I would like

Scripture readings, patience and understanding instead of a hamburger.
Humilty rather than fries and quietness rather than noise and sausages.
Many good liturgical experiences rather than dessert.

But most of all spiritual growth and quiet times alone with God.

This maybe at first hand seems like sarcasm or attacks, but it is personal wishes for the Great Lent to be a learningfilled one.
And for a time that in many ways are very difficult because of situations within my path towards the church to have a good and blessed outcome.
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« Reply #62 on: March 11, 2013, 12:11:32 PM »

The answer is to do what your spiritual father says.

In practice, I have seen many different instructions.  In traditional Greek and Russian practice, as I have been taught, "no oil" means "no oil" of any kind.  This means not to cook with oil, not to add oil to one's food, and not to buy food made with oil.  It does not mean to avoid foods that naturally contain some oils.  That being said, I certainly am familiar with the fact that some clergy in various jurisdictions in this country say that "no oil" means "no olive oil".  To me, switching from olive oil to vegetable oil for the fasts is not much of a sacrifice. 

Protopresbyter Alexander Lebedeff, the most senior cleric of ROCOR, makes some good comments on the subject here:

http://www.orthodox.net/articles/fasting-and-oil.html

I also don't understand the allowance of beer or other forms of alcohol on "no wine" days, however.  According to the instructions of our spiritual father, "no wine" = "no alcohol", but I understand that beer is permitted on "no wine" days in Slavic practice and perhaps in other local traditions.  Beer seems to have been consumed throughout Lent in monasteries in the West, but this may have been by necessity on account of poor sanitation and poor nutrition (lack of drinkable water and lack of sufficient food). 
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« Reply #63 on: March 11, 2013, 12:28:36 PM »

McDonalds in Greece have a Lenten menu.

Talk about peer pressure. angel

Same in the Philippines.  Being once a predominantly Roman Catholic country, most restaurants will have fish on their menu for Lent being it is Lent.  McDonald's has pulled Fillet-o-Fish from their menu there many times because it tends to be on the pricier side than most of their other menu items, but they bring it back for Lent every year.

Plus, being a tropical island, there is an abundance of shrimp and squid.  Crab can be expensive in the city, but if you are out on the fishing villages you can get them much, much cheaper.
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« Reply #64 on: March 11, 2013, 03:45:08 PM »

I wonder how this would work?  Oil is in almost any type of food.  Almost every type of bread/cracker/pastry contains oil.   I mean if you read the ingredients on SO many foods they contain oil based products.  I have bread crumbs with oil in them, as well as chocolate.

Nuts have oil in them - Peanut oil, almond oil, cashew oil.   Corn has oil in it.   Olives have oil.   Hemp has oil.  Rapeseed  has oil (canola).    Coconuts have oil.  Neem oil (common in India to brush teeth).

Also there is essential oils (some consume these, some use as smell) - such as oregano oil is consumed for colds... You can pretty much get oil from any plant (for essential oil) Is there a common "guide" out there on this subject?

The rule passed down to me, coming from Archbishop Dmitri of Dallas (of Blessed Memory), is when you're eating such processed foods (including canned foods, pre-cooked, breads, etc.) to read the top five ingredients. If these are fasting, ignore the rest and eat it. The idea being that, if it's beyond the fifth ingredient, there's so little of it that it probably cannot be considered decadent of otherwise fast-breaking.
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« Reply #65 on: March 11, 2013, 03:53:43 PM »

It is followed by cheesefare week where the only dietary restriction is meat, but everything else up to and including dairy is allowed. Cheesefare sunday ends cheesefare week and is the last day before lent begins on clean monday.

Just picking a nit: Wednesdays and Fridays during Meatfare week and Cheesefare week are full fasting days (as Wednesdays and Fridays usually would be).  In fact, during Cheesefare week  Wed and Fri are treated as if they were lenten days (singing Alleluias, no Divine Liturgies, etc.).
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« Reply #66 on: March 11, 2013, 03:57:13 PM »

It is followed by cheesefare week where the only dietary restriction is meat, but everything else up to and including dairy is allowed. Cheesefare sunday ends cheesefare week and is the last day before lent begins on clean monday.

Just picking a nit: Wednesdays and Fridays during Meatfare week and Cheesefare week are full fasting days (as Wednesdays and Fridays usually would be).  In fact, during Cheesefare week  Wed and Fri are treated as if they were lenten days (singing Alleluias, no Divine Liturgies, etc.).

During Meatfare: yes, however everyone told me Cheesefare week is a fast-free one.
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« Reply #67 on: March 11, 2013, 04:10:35 PM »

It is followed by cheesefare week where the only dietary restriction is meat, but everything else up to and including dairy is allowed. Cheesefare sunday ends cheesefare week and is the last day before lent begins on clean monday.

Just picking a nit: Wednesdays and Fridays during Meatfare week and Cheesefare week are full fasting days (as Wednesdays and Fridays usually would be).  In fact, during Cheesefare week  Wed and Fri are treated as if they were lenten days (singing Alleluias, no Divine Liturgies, etc.).

During Meatfare: yes, however everyone told me Cheesefare week is a fast-free one.

My planner from GOARCH has "dairy permitted" every day this week.
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« Reply #68 on: March 11, 2013, 04:11:47 PM »

It is followed by cheesefare week where the only dietary restriction is meat, but everything else up to and including dairy is allowed. Cheesefare sunday ends cheesefare week and is the last day before lent begins on clean monday.

Just picking a nit: Wednesdays and Fridays during Meatfare week and Cheesefare week are full fasting days (as Wednesdays and Fridays usually would be).  In fact, during Cheesefare week  Wed and Fri are treated as if they were lenten days (singing Alleluias, no Divine Liturgies, etc.).
I've seen some variations in the rule, but does this mean your rule is different from the GOA calendar?
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« Reply #69 on: March 11, 2013, 04:12:59 PM »

It is followed by cheesefare week where the only dietary restriction is meat, but everything else up to and including dairy is allowed. Cheesefare sunday ends cheesefare week and is the last day before lent begins on clean monday.

Just picking a nit: Wednesdays and Fridays during Meatfare week and Cheesefare week are full fasting days (as Wednesdays and Fridays usually would be).  In fact, during Cheesefare week  Wed and Fri are treated as if they were lenten days (singing Alleluias, no Divine Liturgies, etc.).

During Meatfare: yes, however everyone told me Cheesefare week is a fast-free one.

My planner from GOARCH has "dairy permitted" every day this week.

My OCA calendar says the same, and that's the tradition I've been taught and have followed for years.

But, Wednesday and Friday are very important days in Cheesefare Week, as they are our preview into Lent, liturgically speaking.
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« Reply #70 on: March 11, 2013, 04:53:11 PM »

It is followed by cheesefare week where the only dietary restriction is meat, but everything else up to and including dairy is allowed. Cheesefare sunday ends cheesefare week and is the last day before lent begins on clean monday.

Just picking a nit: Wednesdays and Fridays during Meatfare week and Cheesefare week are full fasting days (as Wednesdays and Fridays usually would be).  In fact, during Cheesefare week  Wed and Fri are treated as if they were lenten days (singing Alleluias, no Divine Liturgies, etc.).

During Meatfare: yes, however everyone told me Cheesefare week is a fast-free one.

My planner from GOARCH has "dairy permitted" every day this week.

My OCA calendar says the same, and that's the tradition I've been taught and have followed for years.

But, Wednesday and Friday are very important days in Cheesefare Week, as they are our preview into Lent, liturgically speaking.

The usual Wednesday and Friday fasts are forgone this week in favore of a uniform fast for the entire week.  So dairy are allowed on Wednesday and Friday, just for this week.
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« Reply #71 on: March 11, 2013, 04:57:15 PM »

The usual Wednesday and Friday fasts are forgone this week in favore of a uniform fast for the entire week.  So dairy are allowed on Wednesday and Friday, just for this week.

There is no fast, only food restrictions. Other fast-regulated activities like partying are allowed.
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« Reply #72 on: March 11, 2013, 05:55:53 PM »

It is followed by cheesefare week where the only dietary restriction is meat, but everything else up to and including dairy is allowed. Cheesefare sunday ends cheesefare week and is the last day before lent begins on clean monday.

Just picking a nit: Wednesdays and Fridays during Meatfare week and Cheesefare week are full fasting days (as Wednesdays and Fridays usually would be).  In fact, during Cheesefare week  Wed and Fri are treated as if they were lenten days (singing Alleluias, no Divine Liturgies, etc.).

During Meatfare: yes, however everyone told me Cheesefare week is a fast-free one.

My planner from GOARCH has "dairy permitted" every day this week.

... and neither of my Slavic calendars mention any fasting during Cheesefare, other than from meat.
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« Reply #73 on: March 11, 2013, 06:16:57 PM »

The usual Wednesday and Friday fasts are forgone this week in favore of a uniform fast for the entire week.  So dairy are allowed on Wednesday and Friday, just for this week.

There is no fast, only food restrictions. Other fast-regulated activities like partying are allowed.

But forgoing meat is still fasting.  Unless you want to call it "abstinence" Wink
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« Reply #74 on: March 11, 2013, 06:20:06 PM »

The usual Wednesday and Friday fasts are forgone this week in favore of a uniform fast for the entire week.  So dairy are allowed on Wednesday and Friday, just for this week.

There is no fast, only food restrictions. Other fast-regulated activities like partying are allowed.

But forgoing meat is still fasting.  Unless you want to call it "abstinence" Wink

It's called "diet". And fasting is not diet (however many confuse these two).
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« Reply #75 on: March 11, 2013, 06:23:17 PM »

It's called "diet". And fasting is not diet (however many confuse these two).

Forgoing anything is fasting.  It doesn't have to be a general "giving up" of a number of things.
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« Reply #76 on: March 11, 2013, 07:08:38 PM »

It's called "diet". And fasting is not diet (however many confuse these two).

Forgoing anything is fasting.  It doesn't have to be a general "giving up" of a number of things.

There is liturgical fasting and medical fasting.
There is also social dieting to fit into a wedding dress or swim suit.
And there is anorexia.

Eating olives and avoiding olive oil for the right reason is what counts.
If we avoid olive oil, cheese, and meats to please our fellow parishioners, but have not love, it counts as nothing. It is very important to pray when engaging in a lenten fast.
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« Reply #77 on: March 11, 2013, 07:47:35 PM »

It doesn't count if it 5th or after that on the ingredients list.

I've heard many priests (married or monastic) give this advice.

Which is why margarine is okay for oil-consuming days, despite being about 5% milk protein.

Not all margarines contain dairy. There are several brands available in any supermarket where I live which are dairy-free, suitable for those who are lactose-intolerant, or who are allergic to dairy products.  Smiley

Extra bonus points to those Smiley But any ol' yellow tub will do the trick.

Some of us use them out of necessity, Lent or no Lent.  Smiley But you're quite right, overzealous ingredient-watching kinda defeats the purpose of eating simply and without fuss.

Exactly. Lent is supposed to get us away from obsessing over food, but it's really easy to become more obsessed.
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« Reply #78 on: March 11, 2013, 07:48:26 PM »

Holy fools were fond of eating sausages in Lent, but maybe, as Augustin points out, they fried them in water. Here, we fry one another in sarcasm, which produces a nice flavor, especially when washed down with moral superiority.
I'm sure you're the only one here to consider yourself superior - unlike the rest of us who have risen above that  angel!

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« Reply #79 on: March 11, 2013, 07:53:56 PM »

In Westernspeak, they use abstinence for avoiding foods and fasting for not eating. This is accurate and should be employed in Orthodoxy universally. For goodness sake, we have hypertechnical theological terms, we might as well have more accurate terms for our praxis.
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« Reply #80 on: March 11, 2013, 08:59:16 PM »

What do you guys think?  There is varied opinion on this.

Yes there is.  For my part, if we are going to get all pharisee about this fasting stuff, let's go by the letter of the words.  Avoid olive oil.  They did not have the other oils back then, so I use them.  Same with wine.  No wine.  Jack Daniels did not come till later, so it is OK.  And forget about 70/30 hamburger on sale at the grocery store.  It's lobster and shrimp baby, all the way.  They are particularly good when smothered in Jack Daniels sauce.  Margarine should be OK, as long as it does not have olive oil in it.  You know, coconut oil is pretty good stuff.  I use that a lot.  It also works as a good skin softener.

Lent is so much fun.

Jack Daniels = hard liquor
Is that why some people drink beer all during Lent?
Yeah, in that case, Great Lent should be a smash. Why do Great Lent?

Aren't we to be sober and watchful? How can one be sober with a daily diet of Jack Daniels and beer?

Back on the topic of olive oil. Margarine is not okay, yet many folks use it during Lent as a substitute for butter. However, margarine has been implicated in breast cancer and in other cancers.

If one is told to avoid olive oil and other oils, then applesauce can be substituted for oil in most recipes.
In salads, one can mash an avocado and add that to a salad as a dressing.






Margarine can be very unhealthy. Vegetable oils in general should never be eaten if you want to avoid all kinds of nasty illnesses. Canola is not as bad as the others. There is one brand that I know of that uses Canola and adds Omega 3 fats which are very healthy for you.

Coconut oil is the very best substitute out there. We can use olive oil on most weekends so I suggest using a lot of it then.
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« Reply #81 on: March 11, 2013, 09:13:16 PM »

I think we need to be less hung up on the details, lest we turn fasting into a form of legalism, and not a tool of strengthening our spirituality.
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« Reply #82 on: March 11, 2013, 09:54:12 PM »

I think we need to be less hung up on the details, lest we turn fasting into a form of legalism, and not a tool of strengthening our spirituality.

Exactly, there are some very scrupulous priests who do not even want those parishioners with serious allergies looking beyond the five major ingredients in processed foods. What are they doing telling their parishioners to eat PROCESSED foods for Lent in the first place?

Most processed foods contain GMO corn and soy. As one Antiochian Priest said, if it's GMO, it is not lenten as you do not know what animal genes have been added by mad scientists to produce those GMO foods.

Boycott processed food. Eat organic non-GMO food the way God created it.
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« Reply #83 on: March 11, 2013, 10:32:26 PM »

I think we need to be less hung up on the details, lest we turn fasting into a form of legalism, and not a tool of strengthening our spirituality.

Amen.
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« Reply #84 on: March 11, 2013, 10:40:25 PM »

I think we need to be less hung up on the details, lest we turn fasting into a form of legalism, and not a tool of strengthening our spirituality.

Exactly, there are some very scrupulous priests who do not even want those parishioners with serious allergies looking beyond the five major ingredients in processed foods. What are they doing telling their parishioners to eat PROCESSED foods for Lent in the first place?

Most processed foods contain GMO corn and soy. As one Antiochian Priest said, if it's GMO, it is not lenten as you do not know what animal genes have been added by mad scientists to produce those GMO foods.

Boycott processed food. Eat organic non-GMO food the way God created it.

While I certainly agree with you on reasons of health, it can also be difficult for some to always afford such food, and others to have time to prepare a filling meal. Many working families don't always have time to fix a nice breakfast or lunch. Processed foods aren't the best for you, but it's sometimes hard to avoid.

That said, not all processed foods are things like big pastries or fatty snacks, and so I don't think they can all be considered inappropriate for Lent. They're aren't the ideal, but sometimes the ideal is beyond reach.
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« Reply #85 on: March 11, 2013, 11:08:32 PM »

I think we need to be less hung up on the details, lest we turn fasting into a form of legalism, and not a tool of strengthening our spirituality.

Exactly, there are some very scrupulous priests who do not even want those parishioners with serious allergies looking beyond the five major ingredients in processed foods. What are they doing telling their parishioners to eat PROCESSED foods for Lent in the first place?

Most processed foods contain GMO corn and soy. As one Antiochian Priest said, if it's GMO, it is not lenten as you do not know what animal genes have been added by mad scientists to produce those GMO foods.

Boycott processed food. Eat organic non-GMO food the way God created it.

While I certainly agree with you on reasons of health, it can also be difficult for some to always afford such food, and others to have time to prepare a filling meal. Many working families don't always have time to fix a nice breakfast or lunch. Processed foods aren't the best for you, but it's sometimes hard to avoid.

That said, not all processed foods are things like big pastries or fatty snacks, and so I don't think they can all be considered inappropriate for Lent. They're aren't the ideal, but sometimes the ideal is beyond reach.

Monks dig up potatoes and carrots and add some greens like broccoli to make a daily Lenten soup.
Things grown in the garden can be delicious. Mushrooms can be grown in cellars. They are also very nutritious and if added to a potato, onion, and carrot soup, this can be a very hardy and nutritious soup.
A couple of sliced olives will give that soup a sensational flavor. No need to add olive oil.
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« Reply #86 on: March 11, 2013, 11:09:55 PM »

When I lived in an apartment before I got married, I had my own garden in a box. I grew tomatoes, carrots, potatoes, and onions. I would plant the spuds that were sprouting.
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« Reply #87 on: March 11, 2013, 11:14:31 PM »

Keep thine eyes on thine own plate. Or pluck them out.
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« Reply #88 on: March 11, 2013, 11:23:52 PM »

Keep thine eyes on thine own plate. Or pluck them out.

... just don't eat 'em. They're not Lenten.  laugh laugh
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« Reply #89 on: March 11, 2013, 11:58:38 PM »

Keep thine eyes on thine own plate. Or pluck them out.

Beware the cane-carrying yiayia or grumpy orthocat.
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