Topic: The Next Pope & the Latin Mass ..

[Charles Martel]

Benedict was a champion of the Old Mass, the True Mass, the Traditional Latin Mass.

And it is thriving and appealing  to many of the younger people and young families everywhere desperate for  the real faith and devotion unlike the the "New" Mass and the Church of "nice" complete with it's clown "Masses" and tolerent "gay-friendly" exhibitions passed off as a form of the liturgy. While the old Norvus Ordo parishes are closing and the churches are razed, those with the Latin Mass are flourishing and gaining members all the time, many with large young families.

The question, does the next Pope continue to support the TLM  for a strong future or do we get another aging hippy and disciple of "nice" and tolerance (except for tradition of course) while supporting the bastardized form of the True Mass and the eventual extinction of the Norvus Ordo crowd when they eventually die off and their chruches leveled or turned into heretical, prot monstrosities or perhaps even Mosques.

As Voris states in the video, will Tradition, who defends the Faith more rigoursly, have an ally with the new Pope? Will he understand that that the future of the Church firmly remains rooted in the past?

We shall see.

http://www.churchmilitant.tv/daily/?today=2013-03-04

[choy]

Anything from Trent is already a break in Tradition.

[Charles Martel]

Anything from Trent is already a break in Tradition.

Spoken like a true schismatic.

But where is your proof?

one month for calling choy a schismatic and attacking him.  This is not to be tolerated. -username! Orthodox Catholic section moderator.

[ialmisry]

Benedict was a champion of the Old Mass, the True Mass, the Traditional Latin Mass.

And it is thriving and appealing  to many of the younger people and young families everywhere desperate for  the real faith and devotion unlike the the "New" Mass and the Church of "nice" complete with it's clown "Masses" and tolerent "gay-friendly" exhibitions passed off as a form of the liturgy. While the old Norvus Ordo parishes are closing and the churches are razed, those with the Latin Mass are flourishing and gaining members all the time, many with large young families.

The question, does the next Pope continue to support the TLM  for a strong future or do we get another aging hippy and disciple of "nice" and tolerance (except for tradition of course) while supporting the bastardized form of the True Mass and the eventual extinction of the Norvus Ordo crowd when they eventually die off and their chruches leveled or turned into heretical, prot monstrosities or perhaps even Mosques.

As Voris states in the video, will Tradition, who defends the Faith more rigoursly, have an ally with the new Pope? Will he understand that that the future of the Church firmly remains rooted in the past?

We shall see.

http://www.churchmilitant.tv/daily/?today=2013-03-04

I see plenty of Novus Ordo parishes thriving in Chicago.

Anything from Trent is already a break in Tradition.

Spoken like a true schismatic.

But where is your proof?

Trent. And the Lateran.

[Papist]

Benedict was a champion of the Old Mass, the True Mass, the Traditional Latin Mass.

And it is thriving and appealing  to many of the younger people and young families everywhere desperate for  the real faith and devotion unlike the the "New" Mass and the Church of "nice" complete with it's clown "Masses" and tolerent "gay-friendly" exhibitions passed off as a form of the liturgy. While the old Norvus Ordo parishes are closing and the churches are razed, those with the Latin Mass are flourishing and gaining members all the time, many with large young families.

The question, does the next Pope continue to support the TLM  for a strong future or do we get another aging hippy and disciple of "nice" and tolerance (except for tradition of course) while supporting the bastardized form of the True Mass and the eventual extinction of the Norvus Ordo crowd when they eventually die off and their chruches leveled or turned into heretical, prot monstrosities or perhaps even Mosques.

As Voris states in the video, will Tradition, who defends the Faith more rigoursly, have an ally with the new Pope? Will he understand that that the future of the Church firmly remains rooted in the past?

We shall see.

http://www.churchmilitant.tv/daily/?today=2013-03-04

I love how you refer to the TLM as the "True Mass," as if there is no other real mass. It's quite silly. There is the NO, the Byzantine Liturgy, etc etc etc.

[Eastern Mind]

Benedict was a champion of the Old Mass, the True Mass, the Traditional Latin Mass.

And it is thriving and appealing  to many of the younger people and young families everywhere desperate for  the real faith and devotion unlike the the "New" Mass and the Church of "nice" complete with it's clown "Masses" and tolerent "gay-friendly" exhibitions passed off as a form of the liturgy. While the old Norvus Ordo parishes are closing and the churches are razed, those with the Latin Mass are flourishing and gaining members all the time, many with large young families.

The question, does the next Pope continue to support the TLM  for a strong future or do we get another aging hippy and disciple of "nice" and tolerance (except for tradition of course) while supporting the bastardized form of the True Mass and the eventual extinction of the Norvus Ordo crowd when they eventually die off and their chruches leveled or turned into heretical, prot monstrosities or perhaps even Mosques.

As Voris states in the video, will Tradition, who defends the Faith more rigoursly, have an ally with the new Pope? Will he understand that that the future of the Church firmly remains rooted in the past?

We shall see.

http://www.churchmilitant.tv/daily/?today=2013-03-04

I love how you refer to the TLM as the "True Mass," as if there is no other real mass. It's quite silly. There is the NO, the Byzantine Liturgy, etc etc etc.

He's going to tell you that they're all invalid.

[Charles Martel]

Benedict was a champion of the Old Mass, the True Mass, the Traditional Latin Mass.

And it is thriving and appealing  to many of the younger people and young families everywhere desperate for  the real faith and devotion unlike the the "New" Mass and the Church of "nice" complete with it's clown "Masses" and tolerent "gay-friendly" exhibitions passed off as a form of the liturgy. While the old Norvus Ordo parishes are closing and the churches are razed, those with the Latin Mass are flourishing and gaining members all the time, many with large young families.

The question, does the next Pope continue to support the TLM  for a strong future or do we get another aging hippy and disciple of "nice" and tolerance (except for tradition of course) while supporting the bastardized form of the True Mass and the eventual extinction of the Norvus Ordo crowd when they eventually die off and their chruches leveled or turned into heretical, prot monstrosities or perhaps even Mosques.

As Voris states in the video, will Tradition, who defends the Faith more rigoursly, have an ally with the new Pope? Will he understand that that the future of the Church firmly remains rooted in the past?

We shall see.

http://www.churchmilitant.tv/daily/?today=2013-03-04

I love how you refer to the TLM as the "True Mass," as if there is no other real mass. It's quite silly. There is the NO, the Byzantine Liturgy, etc etc etc.

He's going to tell you that they're all invalid.

On the contrary, I've heard the Byzantine is quite valid.

But I admit that I know nothing about it.

[choy]

Anything from Trent is already a break in Tradition.

Spoken like a true schismatic.

But where is your proof?

Says the SSPXer.

At least we Orthodox do not pretend with our feelings about the Pope.

[Charles Martel]

I see plenty of Novus Ordo parishes thriving in Chicago.

Let me guess, the immigrant or ethnic ones.

All the old ethinc and americanized parishes around me are closing but a few.

The ones that provide the trad Mass are the strongest.

[choy]

Anything from Trent is already a break in Tradition.

Spoken like a true schismatic.

But where is your proof?

Trent was a counter-reformation council.  It changed the very character of the Roman Church.  Instead of being true to their identity, they responded from every Protestant polemic and tried to distance themselves from it.  Trent was the start of the long road downhill towards where the Roman Church is today.  Vatican II wasn't an abrupt change, it was the fruit of what began at Trent.

[choy]

I see plenty of Novus Ordo parishes thriving in Chicago.

Let me guess, the immigrant or ethnic ones.

All the old ethinc and americanized parishes around me are closing but a few.

The ones that provide the trad Mass are the strongest.

Yes, all 1 of them.

[Charles Martel]

Anything from Trent is already a break in Tradition.

Spoken like a true schismatic.

But where is your proof?

Says the SSPXer.

At least we Orthodox do not pretend with our feelings about the Pope.

I'm not SSPX.


And you don't accept the Chair of Peter to begin with.

[Charles Martel]

Anything from Trent is already a break in Tradition.

Spoken like a true schismatic.

But where is your proof?

Trent was a counter-reformation council.  It changed the very character of the Roman Church.  Instead of being true to their identity, they responded from every Protestant polemic and tried to distance themselves from it.  Trent was the start of the long road downhill towards where the Roman Church is today.  Vatican II wasn't an abrupt change, it was the fruit of what began at Trent.

Trent just confirmed what the Church always taught as opposed to Protestantism.


VII tried to become Protestant in an attempt to win the heretics back which had the opposite effect.

[choy]

I'm not SSPX.

And you don't accept the Chair of Peter to begin with.

You don't accept the one who sits on it.

[choy]

Anything from Trent is already a break in Tradition.

Spoken like a true schismatic.

But where is your proof?

Trent was a counter-reformation council.  It changed the very character of the Roman Church.  Instead of being true to their identity, they responded from every Protestant polemic and tried to distance themselves from it.  Trent was the start of the long road downhill towards where the Roman Church is today.  Vatican II wasn't an abrupt change, it was the fruit of what began at Trent.

Trent just confirmed what the Church always taught as opposed to Protestantism.


VII tried to become Protestant in an attempt to win the heretics back which had the opposite effect.

Nope, it radically changed the nature of the Roman Church.  Notice also in RC history you hardly hear anything pre-Trent.  As if the Church never existed.  There are the lives of a few saints talked about, St. Augustine, St. Aquinas, St. Francis of Assisi.  But overall Trent was a break in tradition that the Church doesn't even speak about.

[Papist]

I see plenty of Novus Ordo parishes thriving in Chicago.

Let me guess, the immigrant or ethnic ones.

All the old ethinc and americanized parishes around me are closing but a few.

The ones that provide the trad Mass are the strongest.

In diocese, the TLM parish is limping along. The NO parish that I some times attend, which has very reverent liturgy, is thriving. It's not just the Latin mass that makes the faith.

[mike]

AFAIR it's the first time Charles Martel is discussing theology instead of homosexuality. This needs a celebration.

[Papist]

Anything from Trent is already a break in Tradition.

Spoken like a true schismatic.

But where is your proof?

Trent was a counter-reformation council.  It changed the very character of the Roman Church.  Instead of being true to their identity, they responded from every Protestant polemic and tried to distance themselves from it.  Trent was the start of the long road downhill towards where the Roman Church is today.  Vatican II wasn't an abrupt change, it was the fruit of what began at Trent.

Trent just confirmed what the Church always taught as opposed to Protestantism.


VII tried to become Protestant in an attempt to win the heretics back which had the opposite effect.

Do you blieve that Pope Benedict XVI was a real Pope?

[Eastern Mind]

AFAIR it's the first time Charles Martel is discussing theology instead of homosexuality. This needs a celebration.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enSzV0QJPMs

[J Michael]

Anything from Trent is already a break in Tradition.

Spoken like a true schismatic.

But where is your proof?

Trent was a counter-reformation council.  It changed the very character of the Roman Church.  Instead of being true to their identity, they responded from every Protestant polemic and tried to distance themselves from it.  Trent was the start of the long road downhill towards where the Roman Church is today.  Vatican II wasn't an abrupt change, it was the fruit of what began at Trent.

Trent just confirmed what the Church always taught as opposed to Protestantism.


VII tried to become Protestant in an attempt to win the heretics back which had the opposite effect.

Nope, it radically changed the nature of the Roman Church.  Notice also in RC history you hardly hear anything pre-Trent.  As if the Church never existed.  There are the lives of a few saints talked about, St. Augustine, St. Aquinas, St. Francis of Assisi.  But overall Trent was a break in tradition that the Church doesn't even speak about.

What do you mean by that?  What constitutes hearing "anything pre-Trent"?  I find constant and frequent references to pre-Trent saints, writers, etc.  Please clarify.

[dzheremi]

Yeah, Choy. You know St. Augustine is pre-Trent. Don't be silly.

[Papist]

Anything from Trent is already a break in Tradition.

Spoken like a true schismatic.

But where is your proof?

Trent was a counter-reformation council.  It changed the very character of the Roman Church.  Instead of being true to their identity, they responded from every Protestant polemic and tried to distance themselves from it.  Trent was the start of the long road downhill towards where the Roman Church is today.  Vatican II wasn't an abrupt change, it was the fruit of what began at Trent.

Trent just confirmed what the Church always taught as opposed to Protestantism.


VII tried to become Protestant in an attempt to win the heretics back which had the opposite effect.

Nope, it radically changed the nature of the Roman Church.  Notice also in RC history you hardly hear anything pre-Trent.  As if the Church never existed.  There are the lives of a few saints talked about, St. Augustine, St. Aquinas, St. Francis of Assisi.  But overall Trent was a break in tradition that the Church doesn't even speak about.

Hmmm, interesting since the great scholasticts were all pre-trent: Sts. Thomas Aquinas, Bonaventure, Albert the Great, etc, etc. What about ol' Augustine? And St. Thomas reguarly quotes psuedo-dionysius, St. John of Damascus, and St. John Chrysostom, etc.

[J Michael]

AFAIR it's the first time Charles Martel is discussing theology instead of homosexuality. This needs a celebration.

I guess you don't read all (or even very many) of his posts, then.  If you have done so you couldn't truthfully make that statement.  (Or maybe you just read them selectively, searching for references to homosexuality--c'mon, Michal   .)

[J Michael]

Anything from Trent is already a break in Tradition.

Spoken like a true schismatic.

But where is your proof?

Trent was a counter-reformation council.  It changed the very character of the Roman Church.  Instead of being true to their identity, they responded from every Protestant polemic and tried to distance themselves from it.  Trent was the start of the long road downhill towards where the Roman Church is today.  Vatican II wasn't an abrupt change, it was the fruit of what began at Trent.

Trent just confirmed what the Church always taught as opposed to Protestantism.


VII tried to become Protestant in an attempt to win the heretics back which had the opposite effect.

Nope, it radically changed the nature of the Roman Church.  Notice also in RC history you hardly hear anything pre-Trent.  As if the Church never existed.  There are the lives of a few saints talked about, St. Augustine, St. Aquinas, St. Francis of Assisi.  But overall Trent was a break in tradition that the Church doesn't even speak about.

Hmmm, interesting since the great scholasticts were all pre-trent: Sts. Thomas Aquinas, Bonaventure, Albert the Great, etc, etc. What about ol' Augustine? And St. Thomas reguarly quotes psuedo-dionysius, St. John of Damascus, and St. John Chrysostom, etc.

Choy is a man on a mission. 

[choy]

Yeah, Choy. You know St. Augustine is pre-Trent. Don't be silly.

I just mentioned him in my post.  I hope you didn't stop reading it halfway through.

[Charles Martel]

I'm not SSPX.

And you don't accept the Chair of Peter to begin with.

You don't accept the one who sits on it.

and just who is that at present?

[choy]

Hmmm, interesting since the great scholasticts were all pre-trent: Sts. Thomas Aquinas, Bonaventure, Albert the Great, etc, etc. What about ol' Augustine? And St. Thomas reguarly quotes psuedo-dionysius, St. John of Damascus, and St. John Chrysostom, etc.

Fair enough, but aside from drawing from teachings of specific Latin Fathers, my point was there seems to be a huge vacuum pre-Trent.  It's like outerspace, the Latin Fathers are the planets, but in between them there is just empty space.  Was history just not recorded, or intentionally forgotten?  Even the history of the Mass seems to be a mystery to most, pre Trent.

[choy]

I'm not SSPX.

And you don't accept the Chair of Peter to begin with.

You don't accept the one who sits on it.

and just who is that at present?

Ah yes, that is why all schismatic sedevacantists (SSPX included) are rejoicing right now when they can come out of the sedevacantist closet.

[primuspilus]

I'm not SSPX.

And you don't accept the Chair of Peter to begin with.

You don't accept the one who sits on it.

and just who is that at present?

Not the future resident of the vat....oh wait...this is gonna be another




thing isnt it?

[Charles Martel]

I see plenty of Novus Ordo parishes thriving in Chicago.

Let me guess, the immigrant or ethnic ones.

All the old ethinc and americanized parishes around me are closing but a few.

The ones that provide the trad Mass are the strongest.

In diocese, the TLM parish is limping along. The NO parish that I some times attend, which has very reverent liturgy, is thriving. It's not just the Latin mass that makes the faith.

I believe the TLM is the more true form of the Mass. I used to attend a parish that had a very "reverent" form of the liturgy as well but the old priests retired or died off and now they're getting some more liberal priests there complete with altar girls, women lecters and Eucharistic "ministers" administering at communion. No one seems to kneel anymore when they are recieving and just about everyone takes the Host in hand which to me is extremely improper. Things have just gone from bad to worse I'd say in the last 4-5 yrs which is about how long I've been attending the TLM and the one that I attend is strong and getting stronger all the time.


But I know the local bishop hates it and so do a lot of his hippies in white collars from the sixites.

But a lot of the younger ones being ordained are eager to learn and provide the Old Mass.

[J Michael]

Hmmm, interesting since the great scholasticts were all pre-trent: Sts. Thomas Aquinas, Bonaventure, Albert the Great, etc, etc. What about ol' Augustine? And St. Thomas reguarly quotes psuedo-dionysius, St. John of Damascus, and St. John Chrysostom, etc.

Fair enough, but aside from drawing from teachings of specific Latin Fathers, my point was there seems to be a huge vacuum pre-Trent.  It's like outerspace, the Latin Fathers are the planets, but in between them there is just empty space.  Was history just not recorded, or intentionally forgotten?  Even the history of the Mass seems to be a mystery to most, pre Trent.

Seek and you shall find.  It ain't even difficult.

[Charles Martel]

AFAIR it's the first time Charles Martel is discussing theology instead of homosexuality. This needs a celebration.

I think with you homosexuality is theology.......

But you're wrong about me as usual Michal.

[Charles Martel]

Anything from Trent is already a break in Tradition.

Spoken like a true schismatic.

But where is your proof?

Trent was a counter-reformation council.  It changed the very character of the Roman Church.  Instead of being true to their identity, they responded from every Protestant polemic and tried to distance themselves from it.  Trent was the start of the long road downhill towards where the Roman Church is today.  Vatican II wasn't an abrupt change, it was the fruit of what began at Trent.

Trent just confirmed what the Church always taught as opposed to Protestantism.


VII tried to become Protestant in an attempt to win the heretics back which had the opposite effect.

Do you blieve that Pope Benedict XVI was a real Pope?

Yes.

[Charles Martel]

AFAIR it's the first time Charles Martel is discussing theology instead of homosexuality. This needs a celebration.

I guess you don't read all (or even very many) of his posts, then.  If you have done so you couldn't truthfully make that statement.  (Or maybe you just read them selectively, searching for references to homosexuality--c'mon, Michal   .)

I'm glad someone else is noticing other than my he-man haters fan club J Michael.

[Papist]

Hmmm, interesting since the great scholasticts were all pre-trent: Sts. Thomas Aquinas, Bonaventure, Albert the Great, etc, etc. What about ol' Augustine? And St. Thomas reguarly quotes psuedo-dionysius, St. John of Damascus, and St. John Chrysostom, etc.

Fair enough, but aside from drawing from teachings of specific Latin Fathers, my point was there seems to be a huge vacuum pre-Trent.  It's like outerspace, the Latin Fathers are the planets, but in between them there is just empty space.  Was history just not recorded, or intentionally forgotten?  Even the history of the Mass seems to be a mystery to most, pre Trent.

What about all the Fathers whom Aquinas references?

[choy]

Hmmm, interesting since the great scholasticts were all pre-trent: Sts. Thomas Aquinas, Bonaventure, Albert the Great, etc, etc. What about ol' Augustine? And St. Thomas reguarly quotes psuedo-dionysius, St. John of Damascus, and St. John Chrysostom, etc.

Fair enough, but aside from drawing from teachings of specific Latin Fathers, my point was there seems to be a huge vacuum pre-Trent.  It's like outerspace, the Latin Fathers are the planets, but in between them there is just empty space.  Was history just not recorded, or intentionally forgotten?  Even the history of the Mass seems to be a mystery to most, pre Trent.

Seek and you shall find.  It ain't even difficult.

Really?  Been searching for 3 years.

[J Michael]

Hmmm, interesting since the great scholasticts were all pre-trent: Sts. Thomas Aquinas, Bonaventure, Albert the Great, etc, etc. What about ol' Augustine? And St. Thomas reguarly quotes psuedo-dionysius, St. John of Damascus, and St. John Chrysostom, etc.

Fair enough, but aside from drawing from teachings of specific Latin Fathers, my point was there seems to be a huge vacuum pre-Trent.  It's like outerspace, the Latin Fathers are the planets, but in between them there is just empty space.  Was history just not recorded, or intentionally forgotten?  Even the history of the Mass seems to be a mystery to most, pre Trent.

Seek and you shall find.  It ain't even difficult.

Really?  Been searching for 3 years.

Yeah, really.

Broaden the scope of your search, if you are genuinely interested, that is.  There are vast numbers of references to pre-Trent saints and other writers in the Catholic literature.  And not just "Latin Fathers", either---as if there was something wrong with them. 

[cateran]

Benedict was a champion of the Old Mass, the True Mass, the Traditional Latin Mass.

Yep. He loved it so much that he never once offered it publicly himself. Nor is there any evidence that he ever did so in private.

That aside, he was a terrific champion of the TLM.

[Papist]

Benedict was a champion of the Old Mass, the True Mass, the Traditional Latin Mass.

Yep. He loved it so much that he never once offered it publicly himself. Nor is there any evidence that he ever did so in private.

That aside, he was a terrific champion of the TLM.

He's the one who made so that every parish must make it available if the faithful want it.

[Peter J]

Benedict was a champion of the Old Mass, the True Mass, the Traditional Latin Mass.

Yep. He loved it so much that he never once offered it publicly himself.

Interesting, although I'm not sure if it means what you think it means.

[Charles Martel]

Benedict was a champion of the Old Mass, the True Mass, the Traditional Latin Mass.

Yep. He loved it so much that he never once offered it publicly himself. Nor is there any evidence that he ever did so in private.

That aside, he was a terrific champion of the TLM.

Can you qualify that statement for sure?

At any rate, I'm sure he publicly performed more than a few pre-Vat II.

[mike]

How can one prove something was NOT done?

[Charles Martel]

Benedict was a champion of the Old Mass, the True Mass, the Traditional Latin Mass.

Yep. He loved it so much that he never once offered it publicly himself.

Interesting, although I'm not sure if it means what you think it means.

[Charles Martel]

How can one prove something was NOT done?

Maybe providing a simple article or sentence that states just that?

But hey,I'll just take his word at face value I guess.

[Alpo]

The question, does the next Pope continue to support the TLM  for a strong future or do we get another aging hippy and disciple of "nice" and tolerance (except for tradition of course) while supporting the bastardized form of the True Mass and the eventual extinction of the Norvus Ordo crowd when they eventually die off and their chruches leveled or turned into heretical, prot monstrosities or perhaps even Mosques.

I don't know how to say this without sounding patronizing but to me that sounds like Catholics need to be worried whether your own primate will be a Catholic or not. I'm really sorry for you if that's the case. It seems that Catholics have pretty much lost the idea of "Tradition" and everything is about pope and what he is saying or isn't saying.