Author Topic: The Next Pope & the Latin Mass ..  (Read 18279 times)

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Offline byhisgrace

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Re: The Next Pope & the Latin Mass ..
« Reply #270 on: January 10, 2016, 05:07:31 PM »
Very good points, Mor! I support.
Oh Holy Apostle, St. John, pray for us

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: The Next Pope & the Latin Mass ..
« Reply #271 on: January 10, 2016, 05:15:02 PM »
Did not Christ hold up for approval the example of the poor widow who gave her last bit of income to the Temple? A worldview such as what Volnutt has been representing here would censure Him for that.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2016, 05:16:20 PM by Porter ODoran »
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Offline byhisgrace

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Re: The Next Pope & the Latin Mass ..
« Reply #272 on: January 11, 2016, 10:42:24 AM »
This is making me increasingly depressed so I think I'm going to bow out. You guys make some good points that I probably didn't think enough about and I'm sorry if I hurt anybody's feelings.
You did not offend me, Volnutt. You asked good questions that I struggled with myself.
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Offline Volnutt

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Re: The Next Pope & the Latin Mass ..
« Reply #273 on: January 11, 2016, 03:19:59 PM »
This is making me increasingly depressed so I think I'm going to bow out. You guys make some good points that I probably didn't think enough about and I'm sorry if I hurt anybody's feelings.
You did not offend me, Volnutt. You asked good questions that I struggled with myself.

I'm glad I didn't.
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Offline JoeS2

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Re: The Next Pope & the Latin Mass ..
« Reply #274 on: January 16, 2016, 09:56:12 PM »


Just to be clear, Peter J is an EC, not RC.  I know the Orthodox are fond of saying that RCs and ECs are the same thing, but as a former EC myself, those who are ECs do not see themselves as the same as RCs.

It sure would be  helpful as an Orthodox Christian to understand your explanation of what makes the EC different than the RC's .....Thank you

Offline JoeS2

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Re: The Next Pope & the Latin Mass ..
« Reply #275 on: January 16, 2016, 10:01:08 PM »
The real problem with the Novus Ordo isn't that it's heretical compared to the Tridentine mass, but that it is a lot less aesthetically pleasing and far less sublime. Nixing a lot of organically grown liturgical traditions is meh as well.

The real problem with the Novus Ordo is that it was taken almost word by word from the Lutheran Hymnal of 1904.  My husband and I were able to take that book home and study it for about two weeks. We had bookmarked several pages, and when our confessor saw those pages, he refused to say the Novus Ordo from that point on. After viewing those pages, the priest tossed that book into the burning fireplace.

Catholics, in effect, have protestantized their liturgy.
One would have to establish what is a Protestant liturgy.  Since Protestants descend from the Roman tradition it should not be surprising that the liturgies resemble one another.  The Protestant liturgies I am familiar with have the Kyrie, Gloria, Creed, Sanctus, Institution Narrative, Lord's Prayer, just like the Roman Rite modern and old.  Of course, since Protestants object to certain Catholic dogmas these references are removed from their prayers, not so the Novus Ordo.  Of the prayers actually removed from the Novus Ordo most were Gallican additions or private devotional prayers of the priest that crept in.

The Lutheran and Anglican Masses are very very close and I say this as a Catholic.  I once accidentally sat through an Anglican service in Ireland thinking I was in a Catholic Church.   :)
So is the Novus Ordo Protestant or Lutheran and Anglican service more Catholic?  If one looks at the uses of the Carthusians and Dominicans one can see what was added to the Tridentine use.  A lot of what SSPXers complain about the Novus Ordo removing are missing there as well.  To Protestantize the Mass, one would have to alter the prayers like Protestants have done, remove: reference to the Mass being a Sacrifice, intercession of the Saints, prayer for the dead.  None of this was done in the NO.

but as one who had attended both TLM and the NO Masses in the past , the new Mass has been trimmed down a lot and has wound up as a Mass of 'Minimalism'. But thats just my opinion.  IOW, it is the Mass but barely.