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Author Topic: The Next Pope & the Latin Mass ..  (Read 4194 times) Average Rating: 0
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Charles Martel
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« on: March 05, 2013, 10:35:28 AM »

Benedict was a champion of the Old Mass, the True Mass, the Traditional Latin Mass.

And it is thriving and appealing  to many of the younger people and young families everywhere desperate for  the real faith and devotion unlike the the "New" Mass and the Church of "nice" complete with it's clown "Masses" and tolerent "gay-friendly" exhibitions passed off as a form of the liturgy. While the old Norvus Ordo parishes are closing and the churches are razed, those with the Latin Mass are flourishing and gaining members all the time, many with large young families.

The question, does the next Pope continue to support the TLM  for a strong future or do we get another aging hippy and disciple of "nice" and tolerance (except for tradition of course) while supporting the bastardized form of the True Mass and the eventual extinction of the Norvus Ordo crowd when they eventually die off and their chruches leveled or turned into heretical, prot monstrosities or perhaps even Mosques.

As Voris states in the video, will Tradition, who defends the Faith more rigoursly, have an ally with the new Pope? Will he understand that that the future of the Church firmly remains rooted in the past?

We shall see.

http://www.churchmilitant.tv/daily/?today=2013-03-04
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« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2013, 11:01:25 AM »

Anything from Trent is already a break in Tradition.
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« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2013, 11:25:41 AM »

Anything from Trent is already a break in Tradition.
Spoken like a true schismatic.

But where is your proof?

one month for calling choy a schismatic and attacking him.  This is not to be tolerated. -username! Orthodox Catholic section moderator.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2013, 07:47:39 PM by username! » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2013, 12:15:30 PM »

Benedict was a champion of the Old Mass, the True Mass, the Traditional Latin Mass.

And it is thriving and appealing  to many of the younger people and young families everywhere desperate for  the real faith and devotion unlike the the "New" Mass and the Church of "nice" complete with it's clown "Masses" and tolerent "gay-friendly" exhibitions passed off as a form of the liturgy. While the old Norvus Ordo parishes are closing and the churches are razed, those with the Latin Mass are flourishing and gaining members all the time, many with large young families.

The question, does the next Pope continue to support the TLM  for a strong future or do we get another aging hippy and disciple of "nice" and tolerance (except for tradition of course) while supporting the bastardized form of the True Mass and the eventual extinction of the Norvus Ordo crowd when they eventually die off and their chruches leveled or turned into heretical, prot monstrosities or perhaps even Mosques.

As Voris states in the video, will Tradition, who defends the Faith more rigoursly, have an ally with the new Pope? Will he understand that that the future of the Church firmly remains rooted in the past?

We shall see.

http://www.churchmilitant.tv/daily/?today=2013-03-04

I see plenty of Novus Ordo parishes thriving in Chicago.

Anything from Trent is already a break in Tradition.
Spoken like a true schismatic.

But where is your proof?
Trent. And the Lateran.
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« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2013, 12:19:19 PM »

Benedict was a champion of the Old Mass, the True Mass, the Traditional Latin Mass.

And it is thriving and appealing  to many of the younger people and young families everywhere desperate for  the real faith and devotion unlike the the "New" Mass and the Church of "nice" complete with it's clown "Masses" and tolerent "gay-friendly" exhibitions passed off as a form of the liturgy. While the old Norvus Ordo parishes are closing and the churches are razed, those with the Latin Mass are flourishing and gaining members all the time, many with large young families.

The question, does the next Pope continue to support the TLM  for a strong future or do we get another aging hippy and disciple of "nice" and tolerance (except for tradition of course) while supporting the bastardized form of the True Mass and the eventual extinction of the Norvus Ordo crowd when they eventually die off and their chruches leveled or turned into heretical, prot monstrosities or perhaps even Mosques.

As Voris states in the video, will Tradition, who defends the Faith more rigoursly, have an ally with the new Pope? Will he understand that that the future of the Church firmly remains rooted in the past?

We shall see.

http://www.churchmilitant.tv/daily/?today=2013-03-04

I love how you refer to the TLM as the "True Mass," as if there is no other real mass. It's quite silly. There is the NO, the Byzantine Liturgy, etc etc etc.
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« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2013, 12:25:28 PM »

Benedict was a champion of the Old Mass, the True Mass, the Traditional Latin Mass.

And it is thriving and appealing  to many of the younger people and young families everywhere desperate for  the real faith and devotion unlike the the "New" Mass and the Church of "nice" complete with it's clown "Masses" and tolerent "gay-friendly" exhibitions passed off as a form of the liturgy. While the old Norvus Ordo parishes are closing and the churches are razed, those with the Latin Mass are flourishing and gaining members all the time, many with large young families.

The question, does the next Pope continue to support the TLM  for a strong future or do we get another aging hippy and disciple of "nice" and tolerance (except for tradition of course) while supporting the bastardized form of the True Mass and the eventual extinction of the Norvus Ordo crowd when they eventually die off and their chruches leveled or turned into heretical, prot monstrosities or perhaps even Mosques.

As Voris states in the video, will Tradition, who defends the Faith more rigoursly, have an ally with the new Pope? Will he understand that that the future of the Church firmly remains rooted in the past?

We shall see.

http://www.churchmilitant.tv/daily/?today=2013-03-04

I love how you refer to the TLM as the "True Mass," as if there is no other real mass. It's quite silly. There is the NO, the Byzantine Liturgy, etc etc etc.

He's going to tell you that they're all invalid.
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« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2013, 12:43:49 PM »

Benedict was a champion of the Old Mass, the True Mass, the Traditional Latin Mass.

And it is thriving and appealing  to many of the younger people and young families everywhere desperate for  the real faith and devotion unlike the the "New" Mass and the Church of "nice" complete with it's clown "Masses" and tolerent "gay-friendly" exhibitions passed off as a form of the liturgy. While the old Norvus Ordo parishes are closing and the churches are razed, those with the Latin Mass are flourishing and gaining members all the time, many with large young families.

The question, does the next Pope continue to support the TLM  for a strong future or do we get another aging hippy and disciple of "nice" and tolerance (except for tradition of course) while supporting the bastardized form of the True Mass and the eventual extinction of the Norvus Ordo crowd when they eventually die off and their chruches leveled or turned into heretical, prot monstrosities or perhaps even Mosques.

As Voris states in the video, will Tradition, who defends the Faith more rigoursly, have an ally with the new Pope? Will he understand that that the future of the Church firmly remains rooted in the past?

We shall see.

http://www.churchmilitant.tv/daily/?today=2013-03-04

I love how you refer to the TLM as the "True Mass," as if there is no other real mass. It's quite silly. There is the NO, the Byzantine Liturgy, etc etc etc.

He's going to tell you that they're all invalid.
On the contrary, I've heard the Byzantine is quite valid.

But I admit that I know nothing about it.
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« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2013, 12:43:56 PM »

Anything from Trent is already a break in Tradition.
Spoken like a true schismatic.

But where is your proof?

Says the SSPXer.

At least we Orthodox do not pretend with our feelings about the Pope.
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« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2013, 12:46:11 PM »

Quote
I see plenty of Novus Ordo parishes thriving in Chicago.

Let me guess, the immigrant or ethnic ones.

All the old ethinc and americanized parishes around me are closing but a few.

The ones that provide the trad Mass are the strongest.
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« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2013, 12:46:57 PM »

Anything from Trent is already a break in Tradition.
Spoken like a true schismatic.

But where is your proof?

Trent was a counter-reformation council.  It changed the very character of the Roman Church.  Instead of being true to their identity, they responded from every Protestant polemic and tried to distance themselves from it.  Trent was the start of the long road downhill towards where the Roman Church is today.  Vatican II wasn't an abrupt change, it was the fruit of what began at Trent.
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« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2013, 12:47:21 PM »

Quote
I see plenty of Novus Ordo parishes thriving in Chicago.

Let me guess, the immigrant or ethnic ones.

All the old ethinc and americanized parishes around me are closing but a few.

The ones that provide the trad Mass are the strongest.

Yes, all 1 of them.
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« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2013, 12:47:39 PM »

Anything from Trent is already a break in Tradition.
Spoken like a true schismatic.

But where is your proof?

Says the SSPXer.

At least we Orthodox do not pretend with our feelings about the Pope.
I'm not SSPX.


And you don't accept the Chair of Peter to begin with.
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« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2013, 12:50:37 PM »

Anything from Trent is already a break in Tradition.
Spoken like a true schismatic.

But where is your proof?

Trent was a counter-reformation council.  It changed the very character of the Roman Church.  Instead of being true to their identity, they responded from every Protestant polemic and tried to distance themselves from it.  Trent was the start of the long road downhill towards where the Roman Church is today.  Vatican II wasn't an abrupt change, it was the fruit of what began at Trent.
Trent just confirmed what the Church always taught as opposed to Protestantism.


VII tried to become Protestant in an attempt to win the heretics back which had the opposite effect.
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« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2013, 12:51:21 PM »

I'm not SSPX.

And you don't accept the Chair of Peter to begin with.

You don't accept the one who sits on it.
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« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2013, 12:52:40 PM »

Anything from Trent is already a break in Tradition.
Spoken like a true schismatic.

But where is your proof?

Trent was a counter-reformation council.  It changed the very character of the Roman Church.  Instead of being true to their identity, they responded from every Protestant polemic and tried to distance themselves from it.  Trent was the start of the long road downhill towards where the Roman Church is today.  Vatican II wasn't an abrupt change, it was the fruit of what began at Trent.
Trent just confirmed what the Church always taught as opposed to Protestantism.


VII tried to become Protestant in an attempt to win the heretics back which had the opposite effect.

Nope, it radically changed the nature of the Roman Church.  Notice also in RC history you hardly hear anything pre-Trent.  As if the Church never existed.  There are the lives of a few saints talked about, St. Augustine, St. Aquinas, St. Francis of Assisi.  But overall Trent was a break in tradition that the Church doesn't even speak about.
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« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2013, 12:56:54 PM »

Quote
I see plenty of Novus Ordo parishes thriving in Chicago.

Let me guess, the immigrant or ethnic ones.

All the old ethinc and americanized parishes around me are closing but a few.

The ones that provide the trad Mass are the strongest.
In diocese, the TLM parish is limping along. The NO parish that I some times attend, which has very reverent liturgy, is thriving. It's not just the Latin mass that makes the faith.
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« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2013, 12:57:38 PM »

AFAIR it's the first time Charles Martel is discussing theology instead of homosexuality. This needs a celebration.
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« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2013, 12:57:43 PM »

Anything from Trent is already a break in Tradition.
Spoken like a true schismatic.

But where is your proof?

Trent was a counter-reformation council.  It changed the very character of the Roman Church.  Instead of being true to their identity, they responded from every Protestant polemic and tried to distance themselves from it.  Trent was the start of the long road downhill towards where the Roman Church is today.  Vatican II wasn't an abrupt change, it was the fruit of what began at Trent.
Trent just confirmed what the Church always taught as opposed to Protestantism.


VII tried to become Protestant in an attempt to win the heretics back which had the opposite effect.
Do you blieve that Pope Benedict XVI was a real Pope?
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« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2013, 12:59:39 PM »

AFAIR it's the first time Charles Martel is discussing theology instead of homosexuality. This needs a celebration.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enSzV0QJPMs
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« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2013, 12:59:59 PM »

Anything from Trent is already a break in Tradition.
Spoken like a true schismatic.

But where is your proof?

Trent was a counter-reformation council.  It changed the very character of the Roman Church.  Instead of being true to their identity, they responded from every Protestant polemic and tried to distance themselves from it.  Trent was the start of the long road downhill towards where the Roman Church is today.  Vatican II wasn't an abrupt change, it was the fruit of what began at Trent.
Trent just confirmed what the Church always taught as opposed to Protestantism.


VII tried to become Protestant in an attempt to win the heretics back which had the opposite effect.

Nope, it radically changed the nature of the Roman Church.  Notice also in RC history you hardly hear anything pre-Trent.  As if the Church never existed.  There are the lives of a few saints talked about, St. Augustine, St. Aquinas, St. Francis of Assisi.  But overall Trent was a break in tradition that the Church doesn't even speak about.

What do you mean by that?  What constitutes hearing "anything pre-Trent"?  I find constant and frequent references to pre-Trent saints, writers, etc.  Please clarify.
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« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2013, 01:02:59 PM »

Yeah, Choy. You know St. Augustine is pre-Trent. Don't be silly.
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« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2013, 01:04:29 PM »

Anything from Trent is already a break in Tradition.
Spoken like a true schismatic.

But where is your proof?

Trent was a counter-reformation council.  It changed the very character of the Roman Church.  Instead of being true to their identity, they responded from every Protestant polemic and tried to distance themselves from it.  Trent was the start of the long road downhill towards where the Roman Church is today.  Vatican II wasn't an abrupt change, it was the fruit of what began at Trent.
Trent just confirmed what the Church always taught as opposed to Protestantism.


VII tried to become Protestant in an attempt to win the heretics back which had the opposite effect.

Nope, it radically changed the nature of the Roman Church.  Notice also in RC history you hardly hear anything pre-Trent.  As if the Church never existed.  There are the lives of a few saints talked about, St. Augustine, St. Aquinas, St. Francis of Assisi.  But overall Trent was a break in tradition that the Church doesn't even speak about.
Hmmm, interesting since the great scholasticts were all pre-trent: Sts. Thomas Aquinas, Bonaventure, Albert the Great, etc, etc. What about ol' Augustine? And St. Thomas reguarly quotes psuedo-dionysius, St. John of Damascus, and St. John Chrysostom, etc.
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« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2013, 01:07:07 PM »

AFAIR it's the first time Charles Martel is discussing theology instead of homosexuality. This needs a celebration.

I guess you don't read all (or even very many) of his posts, then.  If you have done so you couldn't truthfully make that statement.  (Or maybe you just read them selectively, searching for references to homosexuality--c'mon, Michal  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes.)
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« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2013, 01:08:36 PM »

Anything from Trent is already a break in Tradition.
Spoken like a true schismatic.

But where is your proof?

Trent was a counter-reformation council.  It changed the very character of the Roman Church.  Instead of being true to their identity, they responded from every Protestant polemic and tried to distance themselves from it.  Trent was the start of the long road downhill towards where the Roman Church is today.  Vatican II wasn't an abrupt change, it was the fruit of what began at Trent.
Trent just confirmed what the Church always taught as opposed to Protestantism.


VII tried to become Protestant in an attempt to win the heretics back which had the opposite effect.

Nope, it radically changed the nature of the Roman Church.  Notice also in RC history you hardly hear anything pre-Trent.  As if the Church never existed.  There are the lives of a few saints talked about, St. Augustine, St. Aquinas, St. Francis of Assisi.  But overall Trent was a break in tradition that the Church doesn't even speak about.
Hmmm, interesting since the great scholasticts were all pre-trent: Sts. Thomas Aquinas, Bonaventure, Albert the Great, etc, etc. What about ol' Augustine? And St. Thomas reguarly quotes psuedo-dionysius, St. John of Damascus, and St. John Chrysostom, etc.

Choy is a man on a mission.  Grin
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« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2013, 01:19:32 PM »

Yeah, Choy. You know St. Augustine is pre-Trent. Don't be silly.

I just mentioned him in my post.  I hope you didn't stop reading it halfway through.
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« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2013, 01:20:28 PM »

I'm not SSPX.

And you don't accept the Chair of Peter to begin with.

You don't accept the one who sits on it.
and just who is that at present?
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« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2013, 01:23:09 PM »

Hmmm, interesting since the great scholasticts were all pre-trent: Sts. Thomas Aquinas, Bonaventure, Albert the Great, etc, etc. What about ol' Augustine? And St. Thomas reguarly quotes psuedo-dionysius, St. John of Damascus, and St. John Chrysostom, etc.

Fair enough, but aside from drawing from teachings of specific Latin Fathers, my point was there seems to be a huge vacuum pre-Trent.  It's like outerspace, the Latin Fathers are the planets, but in between them there is just empty space.  Was history just not recorded, or intentionally forgotten?  Even the history of the Mass seems to be a mystery to most, pre Trent.
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« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2013, 01:23:45 PM »

I'm not SSPX.

And you don't accept the Chair of Peter to begin with.

You don't accept the one who sits on it.
and just who is that at present?

Ah yes, that is why all schismatic sedevacantists (SSPX included) are rejoicing right now when they can come out of the sedevacantist closet.
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« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2013, 01:29:50 PM »

I'm not SSPX.

And you don't accept the Chair of Peter to begin with.

You don't accept the one who sits on it.
and just who is that at present?
Not the future resident of the vat....oh wait...this is gonna be another




thing isnt it?
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« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2013, 01:30:56 PM »

Quote
I see plenty of Novus Ordo parishes thriving in Chicago.

Let me guess, the immigrant or ethnic ones.

All the old ethinc and americanized parishes around me are closing but a few.

The ones that provide the trad Mass are the strongest.
In diocese, the TLM parish is limping along. The NO parish that I some times attend, which has very reverent liturgy, is thriving. It's not just the Latin mass that makes the faith.
I believe the TLM is the more true form of the Mass. I used to attend a parish that had a very "reverent" form of the liturgy as well but the old priests retired or died off and now they're getting some more liberal priests there complete with altar girls, women lecters and Eucharistic "ministers" administering at communion. No one seems to kneel anymore when they are recieving and just about everyone takes the Host in hand which to me is extremely improper. Things have just gone from bad to worse I'd say in the last 4-5 yrs which is about how long I've been attending the TLM and the one that I attend is strong and getting stronger all the time.


But I know the local bishop hates it and so do a lot of his hippies in white collars from the sixites.

But a lot of the younger ones being ordained are eager to learn and provide the Old Mass.
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« Reply #30 on: March 05, 2013, 01:31:10 PM »

Hmmm, interesting since the great scholasticts were all pre-trent: Sts. Thomas Aquinas, Bonaventure, Albert the Great, etc, etc. What about ol' Augustine? And St. Thomas reguarly quotes psuedo-dionysius, St. John of Damascus, and St. John Chrysostom, etc.

Fair enough, but aside from drawing from teachings of specific Latin Fathers, my point was there seems to be a huge vacuum pre-Trent.  It's like outerspace, the Latin Fathers are the planets, but in between them there is just empty space.  Was history just not recorded, or intentionally forgotten?  Even the history of the Mass seems to be a mystery to most, pre Trent.

Seek and you shall find.  It ain't even difficult.
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« Reply #31 on: March 05, 2013, 01:32:41 PM »

AFAIR it's the first time Charles Martel is discussing theology instead of homosexuality. This needs a celebration.
I think with you homosexuality is theology....... Grin

But you're wrong about me as usual Michal.
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« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2013, 01:33:29 PM »

Anything from Trent is already a break in Tradition.
Spoken like a true schismatic.

But where is your proof?

Trent was a counter-reformation council.  It changed the very character of the Roman Church.  Instead of being true to their identity, they responded from every Protestant polemic and tried to distance themselves from it.  Trent was the start of the long road downhill towards where the Roman Church is today.  Vatican II wasn't an abrupt change, it was the fruit of what began at Trent.
Trent just confirmed what the Church always taught as opposed to Protestantism.


VII tried to become Protestant in an attempt to win the heretics back which had the opposite effect.
Do you blieve that Pope Benedict XVI was a real Pope?
Yes.
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« Reply #33 on: March 05, 2013, 01:34:41 PM »

AFAIR it's the first time Charles Martel is discussing theology instead of homosexuality. This needs a celebration.

I guess you don't read all (or even very many) of his posts, then.  If you have done so you couldn't truthfully make that statement.  (Or maybe you just read them selectively, searching for references to homosexuality--c'mon, Michal  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes.)
I'm glad someone else is noticing other than my he-man haters fan club J Michael. Wink
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« Reply #34 on: March 05, 2013, 01:35:50 PM »

Hmmm, interesting since the great scholasticts were all pre-trent: Sts. Thomas Aquinas, Bonaventure, Albert the Great, etc, etc. What about ol' Augustine? And St. Thomas reguarly quotes psuedo-dionysius, St. John of Damascus, and St. John Chrysostom, etc.

Fair enough, but aside from drawing from teachings of specific Latin Fathers, my point was there seems to be a huge vacuum pre-Trent.  It's like outerspace, the Latin Fathers are the planets, but in between them there is just empty space.  Was history just not recorded, or intentionally forgotten?  Even the history of the Mass seems to be a mystery to most, pre Trent.
What about all the Fathers whom Aquinas references?
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« Reply #35 on: March 05, 2013, 01:44:04 PM »

Hmmm, interesting since the great scholasticts were all pre-trent: Sts. Thomas Aquinas, Bonaventure, Albert the Great, etc, etc. What about ol' Augustine? And St. Thomas reguarly quotes psuedo-dionysius, St. John of Damascus, and St. John Chrysostom, etc.

Fair enough, but aside from drawing from teachings of specific Latin Fathers, my point was there seems to be a huge vacuum pre-Trent.  It's like outerspace, the Latin Fathers are the planets, but in between them there is just empty space.  Was history just not recorded, or intentionally forgotten?  Even the history of the Mass seems to be a mystery to most, pre Trent.

Seek and you shall find.  It ain't even difficult.

Really?  Been searching for 3 years.
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« Reply #36 on: March 05, 2013, 01:57:27 PM »

Hmmm, interesting since the great scholasticts were all pre-trent: Sts. Thomas Aquinas, Bonaventure, Albert the Great, etc, etc. What about ol' Augustine? And St. Thomas reguarly quotes psuedo-dionysius, St. John of Damascus, and St. John Chrysostom, etc.

Fair enough, but aside from drawing from teachings of specific Latin Fathers, my point was there seems to be a huge vacuum pre-Trent.  It's like outerspace, the Latin Fathers are the planets, but in between them there is just empty space.  Was history just not recorded, or intentionally forgotten?  Even the history of the Mass seems to be a mystery to most, pre Trent.

Seek and you shall find.  It ain't even difficult.

Really?  Been searching for 3 years.

Yeah, really.

Broaden the scope of your search, if you are genuinely interested, that is.  There are vast numbers of references to pre-Trent saints and other writers in the Catholic literature.  And not just "Latin Fathers", either---as if there was something wrong with them. 
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« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2013, 04:03:25 PM »

Benedict was a champion of the Old Mass, the True Mass, the Traditional Latin Mass.

Yep. He loved it so much that he never once offered it publicly himself. Nor is there any evidence that he ever did so in private.

That aside, he was a terrific champion of the TLM.
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« Reply #38 on: March 05, 2013, 04:18:48 PM »

Benedict was a champion of the Old Mass, the True Mass, the Traditional Latin Mass.

Yep. He loved it so much that he never once offered it publicly himself. Nor is there any evidence that he ever did so in private.

That aside, he was a terrific champion of the TLM.

He's the one who made so that every parish must make it available if the faithful want it.
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« Reply #39 on: March 05, 2013, 04:49:47 PM »

Benedict was a champion of the Old Mass, the True Mass, the Traditional Latin Mass.

Yep. He loved it so much that he never once offered it publicly himself.

Interesting, although I'm not sure if it means what you think it means.
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« Reply #40 on: March 05, 2013, 04:51:18 PM »

Benedict was a champion of the Old Mass, the True Mass, the Traditional Latin Mass.

Yep. He loved it so much that he never once offered it publicly himself. Nor is there any evidence that he ever did so in private.

That aside, he was a terrific champion of the TLM.

Can you qualify that statement for sure?

At any rate, I'm sure he publicly performed more than a few pre-Vat II.
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« Reply #41 on: March 05, 2013, 04:53:02 PM »

How can one prove something was NOT done?
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« Reply #42 on: March 05, 2013, 04:53:59 PM »

Benedict was a champion of the Old Mass, the True Mass, the Traditional Latin Mass.

Yep. He loved it so much that he never once offered it publicly himself.

Interesting, although I'm not sure if it means what you think it means.
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« Reply #43 on: March 05, 2013, 04:56:28 PM »

How can one prove something was NOT done?
Maybe providing a simple article or sentence that states just that?

But hey,I'll just take his word at face value I guess. Roll Eyes
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« Reply #44 on: March 05, 2013, 06:09:43 PM »

The question, does the next Pope continue to support the TLM  for a strong future or do we get another aging hippy and disciple of "nice" and tolerance (except for tradition of course) while supporting the bastardized form of the True Mass and the eventual extinction of the Norvus Ordo crowd when they eventually die off and their chruches leveled or turned into heretical, prot monstrosities or perhaps even Mosques.

I don't know how to say this without sounding patronizing but to me that sounds like Catholics need to be worried whether your own primate will be a Catholic or not. I'm really sorry for you if that's the case. It seems that Catholics have pretty much lost the idea of "Tradition" and everything is about pope and what he is saying or isn't saying.
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« Reply #45 on: March 05, 2013, 06:42:04 PM »

Benedict was a champion of the Old Mass, the True Mass, the Traditional Latin Mass.

Yep. He loved it so much that he never once offered it publicly himself. Nor is there any evidence that he ever did so in private.

That aside, he was a terrific champion of the TLM.

Can you qualify that statement for sure?

At any rate, I'm sure he publicly performed more than a few pre-Vat II.


Quote
Can you qualify that statement for sure?
Don't need to - it's a fact. If you can offer evidence to the contrary, go right ahead.

Quote
At any rate, I'm sure he publicly performed more than a few pre-Vat II.
Not to get too pedantic but priests do not "perform" the Mass - they offer it. Or at least if they're Novus Ordo, they celebrate it.
I'm sure Pope Benedict must have been among them but not as Pope and that's what you asserted.
Just sayin'.



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« Reply #46 on: March 05, 2013, 06:48:48 PM »

Benedict was a champion of the Old Mass, the True Mass, the Traditional Latin Mass.

Yep. He loved it so much that he never once offered it publicly himself. Nor is there any evidence that he ever did so in private.

That aside, he was a terrific champion of the TLM.

He's the one who made so that every parish must make it available if the faithful want it.

Are you kidding?? Summorum Pontificum and the accompanying instructions in his Motu Proprio to the Bishops had so many loopholes you could drive an AI tank through them. Try going against any recalcitrant bishop (like my ex) who decides he will not tolerate it. Then appeal to ED and see what that gets you.
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« Reply #47 on: March 05, 2013, 06:53:51 PM »

Benedict was a champion of the Old Mass, the True Mass, the Traditional Latin Mass.

Yep. He loved it so much that he never once offered it publicly himself.

Interesting, although I'm not sure if it means what you think it means.
Well, I guess that makes two of us with a dilemma. I'm not sure what it is that you're not sure that I think it means.  Huh Smiley
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« Reply #48 on: March 05, 2013, 07:11:28 PM »

Quote
I see plenty of Novus Ordo parishes thriving in Chicago.

Let me guess, the immigrant or ethnic ones.

All the old ethinc and americanized parishes around me are closing but a few.

The ones that provide the trad Mass are the strongest.

Quite the contrary; my Father's parish uses the Novus Ordo and all the parishes in our part of the city are doing fine. If anything, ethnic parishes are shutting down because of the demographic shift in the city.
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« Reply #49 on: March 05, 2013, 09:02:05 PM »

All of the College of Cardinal electors were appointed by either Pope Benedict XVI or Pope John Paul II.  Both popes were committed to the holiness of the Tridentine Mass.  I doubt that the next pope will retreat on their actions to promote regular parish celebration of the Tridentine Mass.
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« Reply #50 on: March 05, 2013, 10:17:33 PM »

All of the College of Cardinal electors were appointed by either Pope Benedict XVI or Pope John Paul II.  Both popes were committed to the holiness of the Tridentine Mass.  I doubt that the next pope will retreat on their actions to promote regular parish celebration of the Tridentine Mass.

It is counter to the unity of the Roman Church to have two parallel Liturgies running side-by-side.  It only makes those heretic schismatics continue their charades and pretend to be part of the Church when they think everyone else outside of their delusional group as "invalid" and "heretic".
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« Reply #51 on: March 05, 2013, 11:06:08 PM »

All of the College of Cardinal electors were appointed by either Pope Benedict XVI or Pope John Paul II.  Both popes were committed to the holiness of the Tridentine Mass.  I doubt that the next pope will retreat on their actions to promote regular parish celebration of the Tridentine Mass.

It is counter to the unity of the Roman Church to have two parallel Liturgies running side-by-side.  It only makes those heretic schismatics continue their charades and pretend to be part of the Church when they think everyone else outside of their delusional group as "invalid" and "heretic".
Your new church classifies all Latins as "heretic schismatics." why single out the sspx?
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« Reply #52 on: March 05, 2013, 11:22:19 PM »

All of the College of Cardinal electors were appointed by either Pope Benedict XVI or Pope John Paul II.  Both popes were committed to the holiness of the Tridentine Mass.  I doubt that the next pope will retreat on their actions to promote regular parish celebration of the Tridentine Mass.

It is counter to the unity of the Roman Church to have two parallel Liturgies running side-by-side.  It only makes those heretic schismatics continue their charades and pretend to be part of the Church when they think everyone else outside of their delusional group as "invalid" and "heretic".

I think that we should always consider that we live in very confusing times. 
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« Reply #53 on: March 06, 2013, 03:44:50 AM »

All of the College of Cardinal electors were appointed by either Pope Benedict XVI or Pope John Paul II.  Both popes were committed to the holiness of the Tridentine Mass.  I doubt that the next pope will retreat on their actions to promote regular parish celebration of the Tridentine Mass.

It is counter to the unity of the Roman Church to have two parallel Liturgies running side-by-side.  It only makes those heretic schismatics continue their charades and pretend to be part of the Church when they think everyone else outside of their delusional group as "invalid" and "heretic".
Your new church classifies all Latins as "heretic schismatics." why single out the sspx?

It's a position I held as a Roman Catholic and as an Ukrainian Catholic.  Why change now? Wink

Besides, the SSPX acts against the very decrees of her mother Church.  Submission to Papal Authority is pre-Vatican II, so is not an issue in-question by the SSPX.  Yet they seem to forget it is part of their "tradition".
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« Reply #54 on: March 06, 2013, 03:46:11 AM »

All of the College of Cardinal electors were appointed by either Pope Benedict XVI or Pope John Paul II.  Both popes were committed to the holiness of the Tridentine Mass.  I doubt that the next pope will retreat on their actions to promote regular parish celebration of the Tridentine Mass.

It is counter to the unity of the Roman Church to have two parallel Liturgies running side-by-side.  It only makes those heretic schismatics continue their charades and pretend to be part of the Church when they think everyone else outside of their delusional group as "invalid" and "heretic".

I think that we should always consider that we live in very confusing times. 

When did we not?  I don't get why people today seem to act as if things are worse off today than 50 years ago or 100 years ago or 500 years ago or 1000 years ago, etc.  We're not any better or any worse.  At any point of history there is a controversy, there is an issue, there is a problem.
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« Reply #55 on: March 06, 2013, 07:53:07 AM »

Quote
Don't need to - it's a fact. If you can offer evidence to the contrary, go right ahead.


OK, here ya go;

Pope Benedict XVI celebrates the Tridentine Mass privately, says head of SSPX

Pope Benedict XVI celebrates Mass in the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite in private, according to the head of the Society of St Pius X, Bishop Bernard Fellay. Speaking at a gathering in Brazil this month, Bishop Fellay also claimed that an unnamed Italian bishop had threatened to resign if the Pope ever celebrated the traditional Latin Mass in public.

According to Fellay, the Holy Father's secretary, Mgr Georg Gänswein, also uses the 1962 Missal; Father Z suggests that the Pope may sometimes serve Mass for him (in the older form, he implies, though this isn't clear



http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100047655/pope-benedict-xvi-celebrates-the-tridentine-mass-privately-says-bishop/


Quote
Not to get too pedantic but priests do not "perform" the Mass - they offer it


Yes, that was poor wording on my part, he celebrates it I guess.

Actually I believe even "celebrates" is a poor word for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
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« Reply #56 on: March 06, 2013, 07:58:37 AM »

Quote
I see plenty of Novus Ordo parishes thriving in Chicago.

Let me guess, the immigrant or ethnic ones.

All the old ethinc and americanized parishes around me are closing but a few.

The ones that provide the trad Mass are the strongest.

Quite the contrary; my Father's parish uses the Novus Ordo and all the parishes in our part of the city are doing fine. If anything, ethnic parishes are shutting down because of the demographic shift in the city.
Well this is true for the old European ethnic neighborhoods (Irish, Italian, Polish, etc) as these ethnics have moved out of the cities and they have been replaced predominately by blacks, Asians,,Middle Easterns and Latinos in which many are Petntacostals.


But there are some strong hispanic and even Asian parish's like koreans that are still thriving and growing.
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« Reply #57 on: March 06, 2013, 08:03:46 AM »

All of the College of Cardinal electors were appointed by either Pope Benedict XVI or Pope John Paul II.  Both popes were committed to the holiness of the Tridentine Mass.  I doubt that the next pope will retreat on their actions to promote regular parish celebration of the Tridentine Mass.

It is counter to the unity of the Roman Church to have two parallel Liturgies running side-by-side.  It only makes those heretic schismatics continue their charades and pretend to be part of the Church when they think everyone else outside of their delusional group as "invalid" and "heretic".
Traditionalists are more loyal to the Pope and Church than anyone, it's the modernists and liberals that are twisting theology and are trying to make Orthodox Catholics a pariah in their own Church.
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« Reply #58 on: March 06, 2013, 08:41:00 AM »

All of the College of Cardinal electors were appointed by either Pope Benedict XVI or Pope John Paul II.  Both popes were committed to the holiness of the Tridentine Mass.  I doubt that the next pope will retreat on their actions to promote regular parish celebration of the Tridentine Mass.

It is counter to the unity of the Roman Church to have two parallel Liturgies running side-by-side.  It only makes those heretic schismatics continue their charades and pretend to be part of the Church when they think everyone else outside of their delusional group as "invalid" and "heretic".
Your new church classifies all Latins as "heretic schismatics." why single out the sspx?

It's a position I held as a Roman Catholic and as an Ukrainian Catholic.  Why change now? Wink

Hmmm ... hopefully your plan isn't to be one of those Orthodox who constantly have their fingers in the Catholic "pie". I think we have enough of that already with podkarpatska and ialmisry.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #59 on: March 06, 2013, 11:18:14 AM »

What about all the Fathers whom Aquinas references?

Quite often when he quotes the Greek fathers the quoted texts are either interpolations or paraphrases. At least, that's the impression I got from reading his Contra Errores Graecorum.
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« Reply #60 on: March 06, 2013, 12:29:03 PM »

All of the College of Cardinal electors were appointed by either Pope Benedict XVI or Pope John Paul II.  Both popes were committed to the holiness of the Tridentine Mass.  I doubt that the next pope will retreat on their actions to promote regular parish celebration of the Tridentine Mass.

It is counter to the unity of the Roman Church to have two parallel Liturgies running side-by-side.  It only makes those heretic schismatics continue their charades and pretend to be part of the Church when they think everyone else outside of their delusional group as "invalid" and "heretic".

I think that we should always consider that we live in very confusing times. 

When did we not?  I don't get why people today seem to act as if things are worse off today than 50 years ago or 100 years ago or 500 years ago or 1000 years ago, etc.  We're not any better or any worse.  At any point of history there is a controversy, there is an issue, there is a problem.

100 years ago my friend their were no debates about two men marrying.  I like to give people the benefit of the doubt who are trying to do their best, harsh judgement won't help me on judgement day.
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« Reply #61 on: March 06, 2013, 01:07:57 PM »

100 years ago my friend their were no debates about two men marrying.  I like to give people the benefit of the doubt who are trying to do their best, harsh judgement won't help me on judgement day.

Yet homosexual behavior was accepted by society even in the First Millennium.  The fact that it was mentioned so often in the Bible, both at the time of Moses and at the writings of St. Paul point to the fact that such activity exists in the time, and it is the problem.  They can't address a problem that doesn't exist, so the fact that they are addressing it means it does exist.

And you're just looking at one problem.  There are other problems back then.  They don't have abortion the way we do it today, but at certain points in history infanticide was done liberally.

I was listening to this talk by Frederica Matthews-Greene on AFR where she pointed out that the sexual liberation started much, much earlier than we thought, even on movies.  While today the glorification of sex is about "consenting unmarried adults", back in the 20s and 30s it was about secret affairs of married men, it was adultery.  Yes, our problems today are different, but that doesn't mean they are worse.  They have other problems in different magnitudes back then.
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« Reply #62 on: March 06, 2013, 01:09:43 PM »

Hmmm ... hopefully your plan isn't to be one of those Orthodox who constantly have their fingers in the Catholic "pie". I think we have enough of that already with podkarpatska and ialmisry.  Roll Eyes

Criticism helps you improve.  Unless you think everything is oh-so-perfect over there.
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« Reply #63 on: March 06, 2013, 01:32:01 PM »

All of the College of Cardinal electors were appointed by either Pope Benedict XVI or Pope John Paul II.  Both popes were committed to the holiness of the Tridentine Mass.  I doubt that the next pope will retreat on their actions to promote regular parish celebration of the Tridentine Mass.

It is counter to the unity of the Roman Church to have two parallel Liturgies running side-by-side.  It only makes those heretic schismatics continue their charades and pretend to be part of the Church when they think everyone else outside of their delusional group as "invalid" and "heretic".
 

By "Roman Church" do you mean the Western Roman Catholic Church as distinct from the Eastern Catholic sui iuris churches?  Or do you mean *all* those churches in communion with Rome?  Because if you mean the latter, then there are already two or more "parallel Liturgies" without any threat to the unity of the (non-Orthodox) Catholic Church.

In Orthodoxy, you also have different (parallel?) liturgies celebrated without any threat to the unity of the Orthodox Church.  So, I'm a little confused as to your meaning.

I'm just asking you here to be a little more precise with your terms for the sake of clarity.
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« Reply #64 on: March 06, 2013, 01:37:43 PM »

All of the College of Cardinal electors were appointed by either Pope Benedict XVI or Pope John Paul II.  Both popes were committed to the holiness of the Tridentine Mass.  I doubt that the next pope will retreat on their actions to promote regular parish celebration of the Tridentine Mass.

It is counter to the unity of the Roman Church to have two parallel Liturgies running side-by-side.  It only makes those heretic schismatics continue their charades and pretend to be part of the Church when they think everyone else outside of their delusional group as "invalid" and "heretic".
 

By "Roman Church" do you mean the Western Roman Catholic Church as distinct from the Eastern Catholic sui iuris churches?  Or do you mean *all* those churches in communion with Rome?  Because if you mean the latter, then there are already two or more "parallel Liturgies" without any threat to the unity of the (non-Orthodox) Catholic Church.

In Orthodoxy, you also have different (parallel?) liturgies celebrated without any threat to the unity of the Orthodox Church.  So, I'm a little confused as to your meaning.

I'm just asking you here to be a little more precise with your terms for the sake of clarity.

There are no parallel Liturgies in Orthodoxy.  On a given day we celebrate a specific one.  I guess one that comes close is the Liturgy of St. James which some jurisdictions and some parishes may celebrate on his feast day, while other parishes with Liturgy on that day would celebrate St. John Chrysostom's Divine Liturgy.  But other than that, its St. John's Liturgy all the time except for the 10 times St. Basil's is prescribed.  And it is the same for all.

Parallel means running side by side at the same time.  Which means you can go to one parish in one Sunday and have the OF, and then walk across the street and get the EF.  And most people who go to the OF don't want the EF, and certainly those who go to the EF would almost exclusively just go to the EF.  In Orthodoxy everyone gets to go to both Liturgies, and they go to the same Liturgy on the same day.  Of course barring calendar differences, but that would be minimal as most of the time St. Basil's Liturgy is celebrated during Lent where everyone (almost) is on the same calendar.
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« Reply #65 on: March 06, 2013, 01:38:06 PM »

What about all the Fathers whom Aquinas references?

Quite often when he quotes the Greek fathers the quoted texts are either interpolations or paraphrases. At least, that's the impression I got from reading his Contra Errores Graecorum.

I'd ask you to substantiate your claim, based on your "impression", but I'm (most unfortunately and ashamedly) so unfamiliar with St. Thomas' writings that it probably wouldn't mean much to me.  Papist, on the other, seems to have more than just a passing familiarity with him and his writings, so I'm sure he'd be able to understand your references and citations.  Wink
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« Reply #66 on: March 06, 2013, 01:43:23 PM »

All of the College of Cardinal electors were appointed by either Pope Benedict XVI or Pope John Paul II.  Both popes were committed to the holiness of the Tridentine Mass.  I doubt that the next pope will retreat on their actions to promote regular parish celebration of the Tridentine Mass.

It is counter to the unity of the Roman Church to have two parallel Liturgies running side-by-side.  It only makes those heretic schismatics continue their charades and pretend to be part of the Church when they think everyone else outside of their delusional group as "invalid" and "heretic".
 

By "Roman Church" do you mean the Western Roman Catholic Church as distinct from the Eastern Catholic sui iuris churches?  Or do you mean *all* those churches in communion with Rome?  Because if you mean the latter, then there are already two or more "parallel Liturgies" without any threat to the unity of the (non-Orthodox) Catholic Church.

In Orthodoxy, you also have different (parallel?) liturgies celebrated without any threat to the unity of the Orthodox Church.  So, I'm a little confused as to your meaning.

I'm just asking you here to be a little more precise with your terms for the sake of clarity.

There are no parallel Liturgies in Orthodoxy.  On a given day we celebrate a specific one.  I guess one that comes close is the Liturgy of St. James which some jurisdictions and some parishes may celebrate on his feast day, while other parishes with Liturgy on that day would celebrate St. John Chrysostom's Divine Liturgy.  But other than that, its St. John's Liturgy all the time except for the 10 times St. Basil's is prescribed.  And it is the same for all.

Parallel means running side by side at the same time.  Which means you can go to one parish in one Sunday and have the OF, and then walk across the street and get the EF.  And most people who go to the OF don't want the EF, and certainly those who go to the EF would almost exclusively just go to the EF.  In Orthodoxy everyone gets to go to both Liturgies, and they go to the same Liturgy on the same day.  Of course barring calendar differences, but that would be minimal as most of the time St. Basil's Liturgy is celebrated during Lent where everyone (almost) is on the same calendar.

Okay, that's clearer.  Thanks!  But, what about the Western Rite Orthodox liturgy?  Not that it's all that widespread, but, nonetheless, is celebrated on Sunday mornings at the same time the DL of St. John is celebrated elsewhere.

I also think you're making up a problem when there really isn't one.  Afaik, both the OF and EF Masses are theologically correct and approved.  So, how are they a threat to the unity of the Church?
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« Reply #67 on: March 06, 2013, 01:56:38 PM »

Okay, that's clearer.  Thanks!  But, what about the Western Rite Orthodox liturgy?  Not that it's all that widespread, but, nonetheless, is celebrated on Sunday mornings at the same time the DL of St. John is celebrated elsewhere.

I also think you're making up a problem when there really isn't one.  Afaik, both the OF and EF Masses are theologically correct and approved.  So, how are they a threat to the unity of the Church?

That is why I don't wonder why so many are opposed to it, but also for various reasons.  I don't have a problem with it for now because it's members don't call the rest of Orthodoxy as "invalid" and "modernist" Wink  But my opinion on it is, if they want a separate Rite, it must be a Church of its own, similar to Eastern Catholic Churches having their own Liturgy.  But then you'd get into that situation where in one city there would be two Churches.  I understand why there is one bishop in one city/province, its for the unity of the people of that secular jurisdiction.  And in the same breath, there should be one type of Liturgy celebrated on a given day for all people under the same bishop.
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« Reply #68 on: March 06, 2013, 02:06:10 PM »

But my opinion on it is, if they want a separate Rite, it must be a Church of its own, similar to Eastern Catholic Churches having their own Liturgy.  But then you'd get into that situation where in one city there would be two Churches.  I understand why there is one bishop in one city/province, its for the unity of the people of that secular jurisdiction.  And in the same breath, there should be one type of Liturgy celebrated on a given day for all people under the same bishop.

Roman Catolic influences are not welcomed.
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« Reply #69 on: March 06, 2013, 02:32:09 PM »

But my opinion on it is, if they want a separate Rite, it must be a Church of its own, similar to Eastern Catholic Churches having their own Liturgy.  But then you'd get into that situation where in one city there would be two Churches.  I understand why there is one bishop in one city/province, its for the unity of the people of that secular jurisdiction.  And in the same breath, there should be one type of Liturgy celebrated on a given day for all people under the same bishop.

Roman Catolic influences are not welcomed.

Neither is "Romophobia"
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« Reply #70 on: March 06, 2013, 02:35:20 PM »

But my opinion on it is, if they want a separate Rite, it must be a Church of its own, similar to Eastern Catholic Churches having their own Liturgy.  But then you'd get into that situation where in one city there would be two Churches.  I understand why there is one bishop in one city/province, its for the unity of the people of that secular jurisdiction.  And in the same breath, there should be one type of Liturgy celebrated on a given day for all people under the same bishop.

Roman Catolic influences are not welcomed.

Neither is "Romophobia"

When by "Romophobia" you mean "opposing alien to Orthodox Christianity distortions of ecclesiology that actually are kept in the Roman Church" it is perfectly OK. We have never had Trent or Vatican II and we do not need them.
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« Reply #71 on: March 06, 2013, 04:47:46 PM »

But my opinion on it is, if they want a separate Rite, it must be a Church of its own, similar to Eastern Catholic Churches having their own Liturgy.  But then you'd get into that situation where in one city there would be two Churches.  I understand why there is one bishop in one city/province, its for the unity of the people of that secular jurisdiction.  And in the same breath, there should be one type of Liturgy celebrated on a given day for all people under the same bishop.

Roman Catolic influences are not welcomed.

Neither is "Romophobia"

When by "Romophobia" you mean "opposing alien to Orthodox Christianity distortions of ecclesiology that actually are kept in the Roman Church" it is perfectly OK. We have never had Trent or Vatican II and we do not need them.

If you have specific issues in your mind, I cannot respond to them unless you share them.  All I'm saying is that we shouldn't just make a blanket statement throwing out everything just because it comes from Rome.  In whatever situation certainly there are some good ideas we can adopt, and there are things that we should never adopt.  Unless you're thinking that everything in the Orthodox Church today is uniquely Orthodox handed down by Jesus to the Apostles.  And by everything I don't mean just the faith.
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« Reply #72 on: March 06, 2013, 09:17:11 PM »

Hmmm ... hopefully your plan isn't to be one of those Orthodox who constantly have their fingers in the Catholic "pie". I think we have enough of that already with podkarpatska and ialmisry.  Roll Eyes

Criticism helps you improve.  Unless you think everything is oh-so-perfect over there.

I am shocked ... to learn that the Catholic Church, which I've been criticizing all these years, isn't perfect! (One of these days I'm going to watch a new movie.)
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« Reply #73 on: March 06, 2013, 09:52:49 PM »

Hmmm ... hopefully your plan isn't to be one of those Orthodox who constantly have their fingers in the Catholic "pie". I think we have enough of that already with podkarpatska and ialmisry.  Roll Eyes

Criticism helps you improve.  Unless you think everything is oh-so-perfect over there.

I am shocked ... to learn that the Catholic Church, which I've been criticizing all these years, isn't perfect! (One of these days I'm going to watch a new movie.)

Well then why do you think I should stop saying what my beliefs are about the matter?  As long as I am reactive rather than proactive (ie. starting conversations to say how problematic the Roman Catholic Church is today) then it is okay.  If someone asks me a question, or there is a public forum like this and someone else asks the question, then I should have the right to respond.  But I agree with you in that it would be wrong for me to be the one starting this conversation.
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« Reply #74 on: March 06, 2013, 10:04:36 PM »

That's it. I'm going to Latin Mass this Sunday.
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« Reply #75 on: March 06, 2013, 11:38:41 PM »

100 years ago my friend their were no debates about two men marrying.  I like to give people the benefit of the doubt who are trying to do their best, harsh judgement won't help me on judgement day.

Yet homosexual behavior was accepted by society even in the First Millennium.  The fact that it was mentioned so often in the Bible, both at the time of Moses and at the writings of St. Paul point to the fact that such activity exists in the time, and it is the problem.  They can't address a problem that doesn't exist, so the fact that they are addressing it means it does exist.

And you're just looking at one problem.  There are other problems back then.  They don't have abortion the way we do it today, but at certain points in history infanticide was done liberally.

I was listening to this talk by Frederica Matthews-Greene on AFR where she pointed out that the sexual liberation started much, much earlier than we thought, even on movies.  While today the glorification of sex is about "consenting unmarried adults", back in the 20s and 30s it was about secret affairs of married men, it was adultery.  Yes, our problems today are different, but that doesn't mean they are worse.  They have other problems in different magnitudes back then.

What societies accepted Homosexuality?  I know the pagan greeks accepted pedastry but I am only aware of their being one homosexual pseudo marriage in antiquity and that was on of Nero's.
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« Reply #76 on: March 06, 2013, 11:51:09 PM »

100 years ago my friend their were no debates about two men marrying.  I like to give people the benefit of the doubt who are trying to do their best, harsh judgement won't help me on judgement day.

Yet homosexual behavior was accepted by society even in the First Millennium.  The fact that it was mentioned so often in the Bible, both at the time of Moses and at the writings of St. Paul point to the fact that such activity exists in the time, and it is the problem.  They can't address a problem that doesn't exist, so the fact that they are addressing it means it does exist.

And you're just looking at one problem.  There are other problems back then.  They don't have abortion the way we do it today, but at certain points in history infanticide was done liberally.

I was listening to this talk by Frederica Matthews-Greene on AFR where she pointed out that the sexual liberation started much, much earlier than we thought, even on movies.  While today the glorification of sex is about "consenting unmarried adults", back in the 20s and 30s it was about secret affairs of married men, it was adultery.  Yes, our problems today are different, but that doesn't mean they are worse.  They have other problems in different magnitudes back then.

What societies accepted Homosexuality?  I know the pagan greeks accepted pedastry but I am only aware of their being one homosexual pseudo marriage in antiquity and that was on of Nero's.

I said homosexuality, not homosexual marriage.  I never said anything about marriage.  Regardless, there were many other issues of the time as well that are not existent anymore today.  At least in most developed nations.
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« Reply #77 on: March 07, 2013, 12:07:03 AM »

Come on Catholics, you know Choy is right about the pre-Trent vaccum. Sure, you can find stuff, but that's not what's popular. I watch EWTN, I keep up with Catholicism, I've seen enough to know that everything post-Trent is emphasized (actually, the newer something is in Catholicism the more it is emphasized). For instance, the immaculate conception. Even if it was "always believed," or was merely revealed, the obsession with it in modern Catholicism is insane. One only need look as far as events like Pope Pius IX rededicating the church of St. James the Great to "Mary, Queen of the World" to realize this. It is very obvious, and I feel like the Catholics in this thread are deceiving themselves if they are arguing otherwise. Lourdes, Fatima, the immaculate heart. It is one thing to accept these things, but the absolute obsession with them today over all other tradition in the Catholic Church is undeniable.
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« Reply #78 on: March 07, 2013, 12:10:58 AM »

Come on Catholics, you know Choy is right about the pre-Trent vaccum. Sure, you can find stuff, but that's not what's popular. I watch EWTN, I keep up with Catholicism, I've seen enough to know that everything post-Trent is emphasized (actually, the newer something is in Catholicism the more it is emphasized). For instance, the immaculate conception. Even if it was "always believed," or was merely revealed, the obsession with it in modern Catholicism is insane. One only need look as far as events like Pope Pius IX rededicating the church of St. James the Great to "Mary, Queen of the World" to realize this. It is very obvious, and I feel like the Catholics in this thread are deceiving themselves if they are arguing otherwise. Lourdes, Fatima, the immaculate heart. It is one thing to accept these things, but the absolute obsession with them today over all other tradition in the Catholic Church is undeniable.
I don't know anyone obsessed with these apparitions. In fact, most Catholics I know around my age think we should focus in the faith and not private revelations.
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« Reply #79 on: March 07, 2013, 01:06:40 AM »

Come on Catholics, you know Choy is right about the pre-Trent vaccum. Sure, you can find stuff, but that's not what's popular. I watch EWTN, I keep up with Catholicism, I've seen enough to know that everything post-Trent is emphasized (actually, the newer something is in Catholicism the more it is emphasized). For instance, the immaculate conception. Even if it was "always believed," or was merely revealed, the obsession with it in modern Catholicism is insane. One only need look as far as events like Pope Pius IX rededicating the church of St. James the Great to "Mary, Queen of the World" to realize this. It is very obvious, and I feel like the Catholics in this thread are deceiving themselves if they are arguing otherwise. Lourdes, Fatima, the immaculate heart. It is one thing to accept these things, but the absolute obsession with them today over all other tradition in the Catholic Church is undeniable.
I don't know anyone obsessed with these apparitions. In fact, most Catholics I know around my age think we should focus in the faith and not private revelations.

There is a great obsession especially on Fatima, especially with the Traddie circles.  You know, Pope John Paul II is a modernist heretic because he didn't really consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart, kind of obsession.
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« Reply #80 on: March 07, 2013, 01:16:23 AM »

Come on Catholics, you know Choy is right about the pre-Trent vaccum. Sure, you can find stuff, but that's not what's popular. I watch EWTN, I keep up with Catholicism, I've seen enough to know that everything post-Trent is emphasized (actually, the newer something is in Catholicism the more it is emphasized). For instance, the immaculate conception. Even if it was "always believed," or was merely revealed, the obsession with it in modern Catholicism is insane. One only need look as far as events like Pope Pius IX rededicating the church of St. James the Great to "Mary, Queen of the World" to realize this. It is very obvious, and I feel like the Catholics in this thread are deceiving themselves if they are arguing otherwise. Lourdes, Fatima, the immaculate heart. It is one thing to accept these things, but the absolute obsession with them today over all other tradition in the Catholic Church is undeniable.
I don't know anyone obsessed with these apparitions. In fact, most Catholics I know around my age think we should focus in the faith and not private revelations.
Either a) you're a hermit with no connection with the rest of your ecclesial community b) Albaquerque is sealed off from the rest of the Vatican's ecclesial community c) we have a magic attraction to those in the Vatican's ecclesial community obsessed with these "apparitions" d) you're in denial e) you're trying to pull the wool over the sheep


Where did your supreme pontiff get that new holiday that he instituted for all your ecclesial community?
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« Reply #81 on: March 07, 2013, 01:54:19 AM »

Come on Catholics, you know Choy is right about the pre-Trent vaccum. Sure, you can find stuff, but that's not what's popular. I watch EWTN, I keep up with Catholicism, I've seen enough to know that everything post-Trent is emphasized (actually, the newer something is in Catholicism the more it is emphasized). For instance, the immaculate conception. Even if it was "always believed," or was merely revealed, the obsession with it in modern Catholicism is insane. One only need look as far as events like Pope Pius IX rededicating the church of St. James the Great to "Mary, Queen of the World" to realize this. It is very obvious, and I feel like the Catholics in this thread are deceiving themselves if they are arguing otherwise. Lourdes, Fatima, the immaculate heart. It is one thing to accept these things, but the absolute obsession with them today over all other tradition in the Catholic Church is undeniable.
I don't know anyone obsessed with these apparitions. In fact, most Catholics I know around my age think we should focus in the faith and not private revelations.
Either a) you're a hermit with no connection with the rest of your ecclesial community b) Albaquerque is sealed off from the rest of the Vatican's ecclesial community c) we have a magic attraction to those in the Vatican's ecclesial community obsessed with these "apparitions" d) you're in denial e) you're trying to pull the wool over the sheep


Where did your supreme pontiff get that new holiday that he or instituted for all your ecclesial community?

or D) You are full of it.
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« Reply #82 on: March 07, 2013, 02:34:01 AM »

Come on Catholics, you know Choy is right about the pre-Trent vaccum. Sure, you can find stuff, but that's not what's popular. I watch EWTN, I keep up with Catholicism, I've seen enough to know that everything post-Trent is emphasized (actually, the newer something is in Catholicism the more it is emphasized). For instance, the immaculate conception. Even if it was "always believed," or was merely revealed, the obsession with it in modern Catholicism is insane. One only need look as far as events like Pope Pius IX rededicating the church of St. James the Great to "Mary, Queen of the World" to realize this. It is very obvious, and I feel like the Catholics in this thread are deceiving themselves if they are arguing otherwise. Lourdes, Fatima, the immaculate heart. It is one thing to accept these things, but the absolute obsession with them today over all other tradition in the Catholic Church is undeniable.
I don't know anyone obsessed with these apparitions. In fact, most Catholics I know around my age think we should focus in the faith and not private revelations.
Either a) you're a hermit with no connection with the rest of your ecclesial community b) Albaquerque is sealed off from the rest of the Vatican's ecclesial community c) we have a magic attraction to those in the Vatican's ecclesial community obsessed with these "apparitions" d) you're in denial e) you're trying to pull the wool over the sheep


Where did your supreme pontiff get that new holiday that he or instituted for all your ecclesial community?

or D) You are full of it.
Quote
History of Apparitions at Hrushiv...1987: May9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 16 apparitions of Our Lady to Josyp Terelya, Holy Trinity Church, Hrishiv
1987: April 26-August 15, Spectacular public apparitions of Our Lady continued. During the first three weeks tens of thousands of pilgrims reported seeing Our Lady and hearing her messages. Between 40-80,000 pilgrims attended daily. Children saw angels flying, KGB officials and non-believers underwent miraculous conversions, and on one day over 52,000 embroidered prayer towls were left by the pilgrims as tokens of love and reverence....
http://www.catholicrevelations.org/PR/josyp%20terelya.htmI pass by a sign like that all the time.
Many seem to be "full of it."

You only make yourself look ridiculous denying the obvious.
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« Reply #83 on: March 07, 2013, 03:41:49 AM »

I am pretty sure the next pope will not be a traditionalist in this regard. In fact, I do not see the roman catholic church ever going back. but that is just my opinion

anyway,

What, Tridentine Mass is the only holy mass!?!?!!?

No, I say, that mass is inferior!

Inferior to the AMBROSIAN RITE!
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« Reply #84 on: March 07, 2013, 10:41:41 AM »

What about all the Fathers whom Aquinas references?

Quite often when he quotes the Greek fathers the quoted texts are either interpolations or paraphrases. At least, that's the impression I got from reading his Contra Errores Graecorum.

I'd ask you to substantiate your claim, based on your "impression", but I'm (most unfortunately and ashamedly) so unfamiliar with St. Thomas' writings that it probably wouldn't mean much to me.  Papist, on the other, seems to have more than just a passing familiarity with him and his writings, so I'm sure he'd be able to understand your references and citations.  Wink

Here's the work. The quotes of the Greek fathers come with talking balloons. Many quotes "cannot be found" are of Pseudo-Saint x or come from spurious works, such as St. Athanasius' elusive discourse on the Council of Nicaea, which I still haven't been able to find.
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« Reply #85 on: March 07, 2013, 10:42:15 AM »



What, Tridentine Mass is the only holy mass!?!?!!?

No, I say, that mass is inferior!

Inferior to the AMBROSIAN RITE!

I heard that the Ambrosian rite has more incense. If so, I concur.
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« Reply #86 on: March 07, 2013, 10:59:59 AM »

Come on Catholics, you know Choy is right about the pre-Trent vaccum. Sure, you can find stuff, but that's not what's popular. I watch EWTN, I keep up with Catholicism, I've seen enough to know that everything post-Trent is emphasized (actually, the newer something is in Catholicism the more it is emphasized). For instance, the immaculate conception. Even if it was "always believed," or was merely revealed, the obsession with it in modern Catholicism is insane. One only need look as far as events like Pope Pius IX rededicating the church of St. James the Great to "Mary, Queen of the World" to realize this. It is very obvious, and I feel like the Catholics in this thread are deceiving themselves if they are arguing otherwise. Lourdes, Fatima, the immaculate heart. It is one thing to accept these things, but the absolute obsession with them today over all other tradition in the Catholic Church is undeniable.
I don't know anyone obsessed with these apparitions. In fact, most Catholics I know around my age think we should focus in the faith and not private revelations.
Either a) you're a hermit with no connection with the rest of your ecclesial community b) Albaquerque is sealed off from the rest of the Vatican's ecclesial community c) we have a magic attraction to those in the Vatican's ecclesial community obsessed with these "apparitions" d) you're in denial e) you're trying to pull the wool over the sheep


Where did your supreme pontiff get that new holiday that he or instituted for all your ecclesial community?

or D) You are full of it.
Quote
History of Apparitions at Hrushiv...1987: May9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 16 apparitions of Our Lady to Josyp Terelya, Holy Trinity Church, Hrishiv
1987: April 26-August 15, Spectacular public apparitions of Our Lady continued. During the first three weeks tens of thousands of pilgrims reported seeing Our Lady and hearing her messages. Between 40-80,000 pilgrims attended daily. Children saw angels flying, KGB officials and non-believers underwent miraculous conversions, and on one day over 52,000 embroidered prayer towls were left by the pilgrims as tokens of love and reverence....
http://www.catholicrevelations.org/PR/josyp%20terelya.htmI pass by a sign like that all the time.
Many seem to be "full of it."

You only make yourself look ridiculous denying the obvious.
Just about everything you do on this site makes you look ridiculous, especially denying the real experience of real Catholics. While acknowledge that those private revelations have a great influence on many Catholics (btw, I don't see anything wrong with them either), I stated that my experience of Catholics around my age is that don't spend a great deal of time, energy, or attention on such things. Most of the Catholics I know around my age never mention Lourdes, Fatima, etc., except on rare occasions. The reality is that we more concerned with the faith of the Church than we are with these private revelations.
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« Reply #87 on: March 07, 2013, 11:08:33 AM »

Come on Catholics, you know Choy is right about the pre-Trent vaccum. Sure, you can find stuff, but that's not what's popular. I watch EWTN, I keep up with Catholicism, I've seen enough to know that everything post-Trent is emphasized (actually, the newer something is in Catholicism the more it is emphasized). For instance, the immaculate conception. Even if it was "always believed," or was merely revealed, the obsession with it in modern Catholicism is insane. One only need look as far as events like Pope Pius IX rededicating the church of St. James the Great to "Mary, Queen of the World" to realize this. It is very obvious, and I feel like the Catholics in this thread are deceiving themselves if they are arguing otherwise. Lourdes, Fatima, the immaculate heart. It is one thing to accept these things, but the absolute obsession with them today over all other tradition in the Catholic Church is undeniable.
I don't know anyone obsessed with these apparitions. In fact, most Catholics I know around my age think we should focus in the faith and not private revelations.

Well, I've known some Catholics who are "obessesed" with them, so I can confirm that such people do exist. Wink
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« Reply #88 on: March 07, 2013, 11:10:39 AM »

Come on Catholics, you know Choy is right about the pre-Trent vaccum. Sure, you can find stuff, but that's not what's popular. I watch EWTN, I keep up with Catholicism, I've seen enough to know that everything post-Trent is emphasized (actually, the newer something is in Catholicism the more it is emphasized). For instance, the immaculate conception. Even if it was "always believed," or was merely revealed, the obsession with it in modern Catholicism is insane. One only need look as far as events like Pope Pius IX rededicating the church of St. James the Great to "Mary, Queen of the World" to realize this. It is very obvious, and I feel like the Catholics in this thread are deceiving themselves if they are arguing otherwise. Lourdes, Fatima, the immaculate heart. It is one thing to accept these things, but the absolute obsession with them today over all other tradition in the Catholic Church is undeniable.
I don't know anyone obsessed with these apparitions. In fact, most Catholics I know around my age think we should focus in the faith and not private revelations.

Well, I've known some Catholics who are "obessesed" with them, so I can confirm that such people do exist. Wink
I'm sure they do. But they don't really exist in the circle of people I know, and I think it's much rarer than Izzy suggests.
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« Reply #89 on: March 07, 2013, 11:39:09 AM »

What about all the Fathers whom Aquinas references?

Quite often when he quotes the Greek fathers the quoted texts are either interpolations or paraphrases. At least, that's the impression I got from reading his Contra Errores Graecorum.

I'd ask you to substantiate your claim, based on your "impression", but I'm (most unfortunately and ashamedly) so unfamiliar with St. Thomas' writings that it probably wouldn't mean much to me.  Papist, on the other, seems to have more than just a passing familiarity with him and his writings, so I'm sure he'd be able to understand your references and citations.  Wink

Here's the work. The quotes of the Greek fathers come with talking balloons. Many quotes "cannot be found" are of Pseudo-Saint x or come from spurious works, such as St. Athanasius' elusive discourse on the Council of Nicaea, which I still haven't been able to find.

Well....hmm....okay.  I think I'll defer to Papist on this matter.  I have neither the time, the brain power, or readily available eyesight left to read, compare/contrast, analyze the material in your link.  Maybe, if and when I start suffering severely from insomnia, I'll try to tackle that  Grin.  Maybe.  But don't count on it. Cool
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« Reply #90 on: March 07, 2013, 11:45:12 AM »

Come on Catholics, you know Choy is right about the pre-Trent vaccum. Sure, you can find stuff, but that's not what's popular. I watch EWTN, I keep up with Catholicism, I've seen enough to know that everything post-Trent is emphasized (actually, the newer something is in Catholicism the more it is emphasized). For instance, the immaculate conception. Even if it was "always believed," or was merely revealed, the obsession with it in modern Catholicism is insane. One only need look as far as events like Pope Pius IX rededicating the church of St. James the Great to "Mary, Queen of the World" to realize this. It is very obvious, and I feel like the Catholics in this thread are deceiving themselves if they are arguing otherwise. Lourdes, Fatima, the immaculate heart. It is one thing to accept these things, but the absolute obsession with them today over all other tradition in the Catholic Church is undeniable.
I don't know anyone obsessed with these apparitions. In fact, most Catholics I know around my age think we should focus in the faith and not private revelations.

Well, I've known some Catholics who are "obessesed" with them, so I can confirm that such people do exist. Wink
I'm sure they do. But they don't really exist in the circle of people I know, and I think it's much rarer than Izzy suggests.

There are people in all walks of life, who practice every faith under the sun who obsess about some aspect of that faith.  To broadly paint all who practice that faith with the same brush as the tiny minority of that faith that obsesses about something is just plain ridiculous.  With respect to Catholicism, some of the obsessions that Isa pictures are not even approved by the Church, so I wouldn't really count those at all.  The Catholic Church holds no monopoly on fanatics--not even close.
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« Reply #91 on: March 07, 2013, 11:50:43 AM »

Come on Catholics, you know Choy is right about the pre-Trent vaccum. Sure, you can find stuff, but that's not what's popular. I watch EWTN, I keep up with Catholicism, I've seen enough to know that everything post-Trent is emphasized (actually, the newer something is in Catholicism the more it is emphasized). For instance, the immaculate conception. Even if it was "always believed," or was merely revealed, the obsession with it in modern Catholicism is insane. One only need look as far as events like Pope Pius IX rededicating the church of St. James the Great to "Mary, Queen of the World" to realize this. It is very obvious, and I feel like the Catholics in this thread are deceiving themselves if they are arguing otherwise. Lourdes, Fatima, the immaculate heart. It is one thing to accept these things, but the absolute obsession with them today over all other tradition in the Catholic Church is undeniable.

No, he's not.  What exists out in the world is not at all limited to that which is currently "popular".  What's popular today may well not be so tomorrow.

And there is no "absolute obsession with them today over all other tradition in the Catholic Church.", except perhaps amongst a (vocal) minority of Catholics.  What planet do you live on  Grin?  So, yes, it is deniable  Cool.
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« Reply #92 on: March 07, 2013, 12:03:28 PM »

Come on Catholics, you know Choy is right about the pre-Trent vaccum. Sure, you can find stuff, but that's not what's popular. I watch EWTN, I keep up with Catholicism, I've seen enough to know that everything post-Trent is emphasized (actually, the newer something is in Catholicism the more it is emphasized). For instance, the immaculate conception. Even if it was "always believed," or was merely revealed, the obsession with it in modern Catholicism is insane. One only need look as far as events like Pope Pius IX rededicating the church of St. James the Great to "Mary, Queen of the World" to realize this. It is very obvious, and I feel like the Catholics in this thread are deceiving themselves if they are arguing otherwise. Lourdes, Fatima, the immaculate heart. It is one thing to accept these things, but the absolute obsession with them today over all other tradition in the Catholic Church is undeniable.
I don't know anyone obsessed with these apparitions. In fact, most Catholics I know around my age think we should focus in the faith and not private revelations.

Well, I've known some Catholics who are "obessesed" with them, so I can confirm that such people do exist. Wink
I'm sure they do. But they don't really exist in the circle of people I know, and I think it's much rarer than Izzy suggests.

That's pretty much what I was thinking. Smiley
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« Reply #93 on: March 07, 2013, 12:03:53 PM »

What about all the Fathers whom Aquinas references?

Quite often when he quotes the Greek fathers the quoted texts are either interpolations or paraphrases. At least, that's the impression I got from reading his Contra Errores Graecorum.

I'd ask you to substantiate your claim, based on your "impression", but I'm (most unfortunately and ashamedly) so unfamiliar with St. Thomas' writings that it probably wouldn't mean much to me.  Papist, on the other, seems to have more than just a passing familiarity with him and his writings, so I'm sure he'd be able to understand your references and citations.  Wink

Here's the work. The quotes of the Greek fathers come with talking balloons. Many quotes "cannot be found" are of Pseudo-Saint x or come from spurious works, such as St. Athanasius' elusive discourse on the Council of Nicaea, which I still haven't been able to find.

Well....hmm....okay.  I think I'll defer to Papist on this matter.  I have neither the time, the brain power, or readily available eyesight left to read, compare/contrast, analyze the material in your link.  Maybe, if and when I start suffering severely from insomnia, I'll try to tackle that  Grin.  Maybe.  But don't count on it. Cool

Ah, okay. It seems he has his hands full with Isa, though  Grin
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« Reply #94 on: March 07, 2013, 12:08:11 PM »

100 years ago my friend their were no debates about two men marrying.  I like to give people the benefit of the doubt who are trying to do their best, harsh judgement won't help me on judgement day.

Yet homosexual behavior was accepted by society even in the First Millennium.  The fact that it was mentioned so often in the Bible, both at the time of Moses and at the writings of St. Paul point to the fact that such activity exists in the time, and it is the problem.  They can't address a problem that doesn't exist, so the fact that they are addressing it means it does exist.

And you're just looking at one problem.  There are other problems back then.  They don't have abortion the way we do it today, but at certain points in history infanticide was done liberally.

I was listening to this talk by Frederica Matthews-Greene on AFR where she pointed out that the sexual liberation started much, much earlier than we thought, even on movies.  While today the glorification of sex is about "consenting unmarried adults", back in the 20s and 30s it was about secret affairs of married men, it was adultery.  Yes, our problems today are different, but that doesn't mean they are worse.  They have other problems in different magnitudes back then.

What societies accepted Homosexuality?  I know the pagan greeks accepted pedastry but I am only aware of their being one homosexual pseudo marriage in antiquity and that was on of Nero's.

I said homosexuality, not homosexual marriage.  I never said anything about marriage. 

I was a little puzzled by that part of domNoah's post too.
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« Reply #95 on: March 07, 2013, 12:15:02 PM »

All of the College of Cardinal electors were appointed by either Pope Benedict XVI or Pope John Paul II.  Both popes were committed to the holiness of the Tridentine Mass.  I doubt that the next pope will retreat on their actions to promote regular parish celebration of the Tridentine Mass.

It is counter to the unity of the Roman Church to have two parallel Liturgies running side-by-side.  It only makes those heretic schismatics continue their charades and pretend to be part of the Church when they think everyone else outside of their delusional group as "invalid" and "heretic".


I think I misunderstood this statement initially. It sounded to me like a criticism that would apply even to the existence of the Roman Rite, Mozarabic Rite, Ambrosian Rite, etc in the Latin Church.

But based on later statements, I guess your objection is just to multiple side-by-side rites in the same diocese?

(Perhaps you could also clarify what you mean by "the Roman Church".)
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« Reply #96 on: March 07, 2013, 12:36:39 PM »

What about all the Fathers whom Aquinas references?

Quite often when he quotes the Greek fathers the quoted texts are either interpolations or paraphrases. At least, that's the impression I got from reading his Contra Errores Graecorum.

I'd ask you to substantiate your claim, based on your "impression", but I'm (most unfortunately and ashamedly) so unfamiliar with St. Thomas' writings that it probably wouldn't mean much to me.  Papist, on the other, seems to have more than just a passing familiarity with him and his writings, so I'm sure he'd be able to understand your references and citations.  Wink

Here's the work. The quotes of the Greek fathers come with talking balloons. Many quotes "cannot be found" are of Pseudo-Saint x or come from spurious works, such as St. Athanasius' elusive discourse on the Council of Nicaea, which I still haven't been able to find.

Well....hmm....okay.  I think I'll defer to Papist on this matter.  I have neither the time, the brain power, or readily available eyesight left to read, compare/contrast, analyze the material in your link.  Maybe, if and when I start suffering severely from insomnia, I'll try to tackle that  Grin.  Maybe.  But don't count on it. Cool

Ah, okay. It seems he has his hands full with Isa, though  Grin

Boys will be boys, won't they?  Grin
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« Reply #97 on: March 07, 2013, 01:18:23 PM »

All of the College of Cardinal electors were appointed by either Pope Benedict XVI or Pope John Paul II.  Both popes were committed to the holiness of the Tridentine Mass.  I doubt that the next pope will retreat on their actions to promote regular parish celebration of the Tridentine Mass.

It is counter to the unity of the Roman Church to have two parallel Liturgies running side-by-side.  It only makes those heretic schismatics continue their charades and pretend to be part of the Church when they think everyone else outside of their delusional group as "invalid" and "heretic".


I think I misunderstood this statement initially. It sounded to me like a criticism that would apply even to the existence of the Roman Rite, Mozarabic Rite, Ambrosian Rite, etc in the Latin Church.

But based on later statements, I guess your objection is just to multiple side-by-side rites in the same diocese?

(Perhaps you could also clarify what you mean by "the Roman Church".)

Roman Church means the Church of Rome, and those under her jurisdiction (Pastor Aeternus aside) and celebrates the Roman Rite.

Yes, people under the same bishop should celebrate the same Rite.  I know there are issues with overlapping jurisdiction in many places, but that issue aside, if you are under the same bishop you should be able to go to any of his parishes and have the same Liturgy.  At least on the same day.  I even commented some time ago over at CAF that the OF can become some sort of "Low Mass" for "Ordinary Time" and the EF can be the "High Mass" for special Liturgical seasons like Advent, Lent, Easter, Solemnities, etc.  But it should be uniform across all.
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« Reply #98 on: March 07, 2013, 01:19:31 PM »

All of the College of Cardinal electors were appointed by either Pope Benedict XVI or Pope John Paul II.  Both popes were committed to the holiness of the Tridentine Mass.  I doubt that the next pope will retreat on their actions to promote regular parish celebration of the Tridentine Mass.

It is counter to the unity of the Roman Church to have two parallel Liturgies running side-by-side.  It only makes those heretic schismatics continue their charades and pretend to be part of the Church when they think everyone else outside of their delusional group as "invalid" and "heretic".


I think I misunderstood this statement initially. It sounded to me like a criticism that would apply even to the existence of the Roman Rite, Mozarabic Rite, Ambrosian Rite, etc in the Latin Church.

But based on later statements, I guess your objection is just to multiple side-by-side rites in the same diocese?

(Perhaps you could also clarify what you mean by "the Roman Church".)

Roman Church means the Church of Rome, and those under her jurisdiction (Pastor Aeternus aside) and celebrates the Roman Rite.

Yes, people under the same bishop should celebrate the same Rite.  I know there are issues with overlapping jurisdiction in many places, but that issue aside, if you are under the same bishop you should be able to go to any of his parishes and have the same Liturgy.  At least on the same day.  I even commented some time ago over at CAF that the OF can become some sort of "Low Mass" for "Ordinary Time" and the EF can be the "High Mass" for special Liturgical seasons like Advent, Lent, Easter, Solemnities, etc.  But it should be uniform across all.
Thus declares Choy  Grin
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« Reply #99 on: March 07, 2013, 01:21:34 PM »

All of the College of Cardinal electors were appointed by either Pope Benedict XVI or Pope John Paul II.  Both popes were committed to the holiness of the Tridentine Mass.  I doubt that the next pope will retreat on their actions to promote regular parish celebration of the Tridentine Mass.

It is counter to the unity of the Roman Church to have two parallel Liturgies running side-by-side.  It only makes those heretic schismatics continue their charades and pretend to be part of the Church when they think everyone else outside of their delusional group as "invalid" and "heretic".


I think I misunderstood this statement initially. It sounded to me like a criticism that would apply even to the existence of the Roman Rite, Mozarabic Rite, Ambrosian Rite, etc in the Latin Church.

But based on later statements, I guess your objection is just to multiple side-by-side rites in the same diocese?

(Perhaps you could also clarify what you mean by "the Roman Church".)

Roman Church means the Church of Rome, and those under her jurisdiction (Pastor Aeternus aside) and celebrates the Roman Rite.

Yes, people under the same bishop should celebrate the same Rite.  I know there are issues with overlapping jurisdiction in many places, but that issue aside, if you are under the same bishop you should be able to go to any of his parishes and have the same Liturgy.  At least on the same day.  I even commented some time ago over at CAF that the OF can become some sort of "Low Mass" for "Ordinary Time" and the EF can be the "High Mass" for special Liturgical seasons like Advent, Lent, Easter, Solemnities, etc.  But it should be uniform across all.
Thus declares Choy  Grin

Are you happy with the situation that there are two factions within the Roman Church with a majority wouldn't even mix with each other and are even suspicious of each other?
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« Reply #100 on: March 07, 2013, 01:34:27 PM »

All of the College of Cardinal electors were appointed by either Pope Benedict XVI or Pope John Paul II.  Both popes were committed to the holiness of the Tridentine Mass.  I doubt that the next pope will retreat on their actions to promote regular parish celebration of the Tridentine Mass.

It is counter to the unity of the Roman Church to have two parallel Liturgies running side-by-side.  It only makes those heretic schismatics continue their charades and pretend to be part of the Church when they think everyone else outside of their delusional group as "invalid" and "heretic".


I think I misunderstood this statement initially. It sounded to me like a criticism that would apply even to the existence of the Roman Rite, Mozarabic Rite, Ambrosian Rite, etc in the Latin Church.

But based on later statements, I guess your objection is just to multiple side-by-side rites in the same diocese?

(Perhaps you could also clarify what you mean by "the Roman Church".)

Roman Church means the Church of Rome, and those under her jurisdiction (Pastor Aeternus aside) and celebrates the Roman Rite.

Yes, people under the same bishop should celebrate the same Rite.  I know there are issues with overlapping jurisdiction in many places, but that issue aside, if you are under the same bishop you should be able to go to any of his parishes and have the same Liturgy.  At least on the same day.  I even commented some time ago over at CAF that the OF can become some sort of "Low Mass" for "Ordinary Time" and the EF can be the "High Mass" for special Liturgical seasons like Advent, Lent, Easter, Solemnities, etc.  But it should be uniform across all.
Thus declares Choy  Grin

Are you happy with the situation that there are two factions within the Roman Church with a majority wouldn't even mix with each other and are even suspicious of each other?
No, but that does not mean that they have to use the same mass to fix the problem. First, everyone should have access to the TLM if they want to attend it. Second, the NO needs to celebrated properly. When it finally is celebrated properly, I think quite a few of these problems with disappear.
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« Reply #101 on: March 07, 2013, 01:48:47 PM »

No, but that does not mean that they have to use the same mass to fix the problem. First, everyone should have access to the TLM if they want to attend it. Second, the NO needs to celebrated properly. When it finally is celebrated properly, I think quite a few of these problems with disappear.

If the TLM is celebrated by all parishes at the same time in prescribed times of the year, then all Catholics have access to it.
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« Reply #102 on: March 07, 2013, 01:51:47 PM »

No, but that does not mean that they have to use the same mass to fix the problem. First, everyone should have access to the TLM if they want to attend it. Second, the NO needs to celebrated properly. When it finally is celebrated properly, I think quite a few of these problems with disappear.

If the TLM is celebrated by all parishes at the same time in prescribed times of the year, then all Catholics have access to it.
Things aren't always that simple. Why are you being so legalistic about this? Didn't you leave us "romanists" behind because we were too legalistic? We have two liturgies. Call it "economia" if you so desire.
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« Reply #103 on: March 07, 2013, 01:59:53 PM »

No, but that does not mean that they have to use the same mass to fix the problem. First, everyone should have access to the TLM if they want to attend it. Second, the NO needs to celebrated properly. When it finally is celebrated properly, I think quite a few of these problems with disappear.

If the TLM is celebrated by all parishes at the same time in prescribed times of the year, then all Catholics have access to it.
Things aren't always that simple. Why are you being so legalistic about this? Didn't you leave us "romanists" behind because we were too legalistic? We have two liturgies. Call it "economia" if you so desire.

Is it wrong to hope that Rome resolves her issues?  I still consider the Roman Catholic Church to be my "mother in faith", and the Orthodox Church as my "bride".  I have grown up and left my mother to be with my wife, but my mother will always be my mother who nurtured me and prepared me to be where I am today in my faith.
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« Reply #104 on: March 07, 2013, 02:16:47 PM »





It is counter to the unity of the Roman Church to have two parallel Liturgies running side-by-side.  It only makes those heretic schismatics continue their charades and pretend to be part of the Church when they think everyone else outside of their delusional group as "invalid" and "heretic".


Considering we actually have FOUR rites within the Latin Church right now... Ambrosian. Mozarabic, Roman, Anglican-use (revised form of the old Sarum rite, for the most part), I don't think so. Liturgical diversity is a nice thing- it makes things less boring, and it's more traditional than having a single, one-size fits all liturgy. And especially considering there are a total of THREE Liturgies in the  Byzantine Rite alone- St. John Chrysostom, St. Basil, and St. James.
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« Reply #105 on: March 07, 2013, 02:24:50 PM »

Yes, people under the same bishop should celebrate the same Rite.  I know there are issues with overlapping jurisdiction in many places, but that issue aside, if you are under the same bishop you should be able to go to any of his parishes and have the same Liturgy.  At least on the same day.  I even commented some time ago over at CAF that the OF can become some sort of "Low Mass" for "Ordinary Time" and the EF can be the "High Mass" for special Liturgical seasons like Advent, Lent, Easter, Solemnities, etc.  But it should be uniform across all.

We do not need Papism within the Church.
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« Reply #106 on: March 07, 2013, 02:25:53 PM »





It is counter to the unity of the Roman Church to have two parallel Liturgies running side-by-side.  It only makes those heretic schismatics continue their charades and pretend to be part of the Church when they think everyone else outside of their delusional group as "invalid" and "heretic".


Considering we actually have FOUR rites within the Latin Church right now... Ambrosian. Mozarabic, Roman, Anglican-use (revised form of the old Sarum rite, for the most part), I don't think so. Liturgical diversity is a nice thing- it makes things less boring, and it's more traditional than having a single, one-size fits all liturgy. And especially considering there are a total of THREE Liturgies in the  Byzantine Rite alone- St. John Chrysostom, St. Basil, and St. James.
^ This
We also have the Dominican rite.
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« Reply #107 on: March 07, 2013, 02:31:59 PM »

No, but that does not mean that they have to use the same mass to fix the problem. First, everyone should have access to the TLM if they want to attend it. Second, the NO needs to celebrated properly. When it finally is celebrated properly, I think quite a few of these problems with disappear.

If the TLM is celebrated by all parishes at the same time in prescribed times of the year, then all Catholics have access to it.
Things aren't always that simple. Why are you being so legalistic about this? Didn't you leave us "romanists" behind because we were too legalistic? We have two liturgies. Call it "economia" if you so desire.

Is it wrong to hope that Rome resolves her issues?  I still consider the Roman Catholic Church to be my "mother in faith", and the Orthodox Church as my "bride".  I have grown up and left my mother to be with my wife, but my mother will always be my mother who nurtured me and prepared me to be where I am today in my faith.

Hello, Jesus!  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #108 on: March 07, 2013, 02:40:05 PM »

Yes, people under the same bishop should celebrate the same Rite.  I know there are issues with overlapping jurisdiction in many places, but that issue aside, if you are under the same bishop you should be able to go to any of his parishes and have the same Liturgy.  At least on the same day.  I even commented some time ago over at CAF that the OF can become some sort of "Low Mass" for "Ordinary Time" and the EF can be the "High Mass" for special Liturgical seasons like Advent, Lent, Easter, Solemnities, etc.  But it should be uniform across all.

We do not need Papism within the Church.

How lucky- because the Orthodox Church has no Papism already. In fact, nobody has Papism but the churches in communion with Rome.
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« Reply #109 on: March 07, 2013, 07:00:42 PM »

That's it. I'm going to Latin Mass this Sunday.

Finally a post that is to the point!
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« Reply #110 on: March 07, 2013, 07:51:44 PM »

Yes, people under the same bishop should celebrate the same Rite.  I know there are issues with overlapping jurisdiction in many places, but that issue aside, if you are under the same bishop you should be able to go to any of his parishes and have the same Liturgy.  At least on the same day.  I even commented some time ago over at CAF that the OF can become some sort of "Low Mass" for "Ordinary Time" and the EF can be the "High Mass" for special Liturgical seasons like Advent, Lent, Easter, Solemnities, etc.  But it should be uniform across all.

We do not need Papism within the Church.

I never said that was the solution.
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« Reply #111 on: March 07, 2013, 07:52:22 PM »

No, but that does not mean that they have to use the same mass to fix the problem. First, everyone should have access to the TLM if they want to attend it. Second, the NO needs to celebrated properly. When it finally is celebrated properly, I think quite a few of these problems with disappear.

If the TLM is celebrated by all parishes at the same time in prescribed times of the year, then all Catholics have access to it.
Things aren't always that simple. Why are you being so legalistic about this? Didn't you leave us "romanists" behind because we were too legalistic? We have two liturgies. Call it "economia" if you so desire.

Is it wrong to hope that Rome resolves her issues?  I still consider the Roman Catholic Church to be my "mother in faith", and the Orthodox Church as my "bride".  I have grown up and left my mother to be with my wife, but my mother will always be my mother who nurtured me and prepared me to be where I am today in my faith.

Hello, Jesus!  Roll Eyes

LOL!  I don't mean it that way, of course.  Mine is more of an analogy.
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« Reply #112 on: March 07, 2013, 11:51:24 PM »


(Perhaps you could also clarify what you mean by "the Roman Church".)

Roman Church means the Church of Rome, and those under her jurisdiction (Pastor Aeternus aside) and celebrates the Roman Rite.

That really isn't "a church".

I'm not saying that would be a bad thing -- in that case, presumably the Mozarabic Rite, the Bragan Rite, the Ambrosian Rite etc would each correspond to a separate church -- but it's no good pretending things that really aren't.
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« Reply #113 on: March 08, 2013, 12:55:47 AM »


(Perhaps you could also clarify what you mean by "the Roman Church".)

Roman Church means the Church of Rome, and those under her jurisdiction (Pastor Aeternus aside) and celebrates the Roman Rite.

That really isn't "a church".

I'm not saying that would be a bad thing -- in that case, presumably the Mozarabic Rite, the Bragan Rite, the Ambrosian Rite etc would each correspond to a separate church -- but it's no good pretending things that really aren't.

The Pope is the Bishop of Rome, so it is the Roman Church.  The Pope isn't the Bishop of Latin.
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« Reply #114 on: March 08, 2013, 01:44:00 AM »

As an OO, I advocate intradiocesan liturgical conformity and interdiocesan liturgical diversity.  I thus partially agree with both choy and Papist.

The dominance of the Byzantine Rite in the EO Church is not the way it always was - diversity is a good thing.
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« Reply #115 on: March 08, 2013, 01:50:01 AM »

AFAIR it's the first time Charles Martel is discussing theology instead of homosexuality. This needs a celebration.

It would be nice if people would just address the issues of the particular discussion at hand rather than resorting to ridicule and mockery. If you want to refute his views and opinions about homosexuality, then go to his comments on whatever thread discusses that issue and make your points. But stuff like you did here is cheap, unproductive, and small minded.


Selam
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« Reply #116 on: March 08, 2013, 01:57:12 AM »

All of the College of Cardinal electors were appointed by either Pope Benedict XVI or Pope John Paul II.  Both popes were committed to the holiness of the Tridentine Mass.  I doubt that the next pope will retreat on their actions to promote regular parish celebration of the Tridentine Mass.

It is counter to the unity of the Roman Church to have two parallel Liturgies running side-by-side.  It only makes those heretic schismatics continue their charades and pretend to be part of the Church when they think everyone else outside of their delusional group as "invalid" and "heretic".
Your new church classifies all Latins as "heretic schismatics." why single out the sspx?

It's a position I held as a Roman Catholic and as an Ukrainian Catholic.  Why change now? Wink

Hmmm ... hopefully your plan isn't to be one of those Orthodox who constantly have their fingers in the Catholic "pie". I think we have enough of that already with podkarpatska and ialmisry.  Roll Eyes

Let me get this straight.  So you are, as an RC, posting on an Orthodox forum thus putting your fingers in the Orthodox "pie" by criticising an Orthodox Christian for having their finger in the "Catholic pie" by responding to RC claims posted on an Orthodox forum.

 Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes   Tongue
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« Reply #117 on: March 08, 2013, 02:01:56 AM »

All of the College of Cardinal electors were appointed by either Pope Benedict XVI or Pope John Paul II.  Both popes were committed to the holiness of the Tridentine Mass.  I doubt that the next pope will retreat on their actions to promote regular parish celebration of the Tridentine Mass.

It is counter to the unity of the Roman Church to have two parallel Liturgies running side-by-side.  It only makes those heretic schismatics continue their charades and pretend to be part of the Church when they think everyone else outside of their delusional group as "invalid" and "heretic".
Your new church classifies all Latins as "heretic schismatics." why single out the sspx?

It's a position I held as a Roman Catholic and as an Ukrainian Catholic.  Why change now? Wink

Hmmm ... hopefully your plan isn't to be one of those Orthodox who constantly have their fingers in the Catholic "pie". I think we have enough of that already with podkarpatska and ialmisry.  Roll Eyes

Let me get this straight.  So you are, as an RC, posting on an Orthodox forum thus putting your fingers in the Orthodox "pie" by criticising an Orthodox Christian for having their finger in the "Catholic pie" by responding to RC claims posted on an Orthodox forum.

 Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes   Tongue

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« Reply #118 on: March 08, 2013, 04:09:38 AM »

All of the College of Cardinal electors were appointed by either Pope Benedict XVI or Pope John Paul II.  Both popes were committed to the holiness of the Tridentine Mass.  I doubt that the next pope will retreat on their actions to promote regular parish celebration of the Tridentine Mass.

It is counter to the unity of the Roman Church to have two parallel Liturgies running side-by-side.  It only makes those heretic schismatics continue their charades and pretend to be part of the Church when they think everyone else outside of their delusional group as "invalid" and "heretic".
Your new church classifies all Latins as "heretic schismatics." why single out the sspx?

It's a position I held as a Roman Catholic and as an Ukrainian Catholic.  Why change now? Wink

Hmmm ... hopefully your plan isn't to be one of those Orthodox who constantly have their fingers in the Catholic "pie". I think we have enough of that already with podkarpatska and ialmisry.  Roll Eyes

Let me get this straight.  So you are, as an RC, posting on an Orthodox forum thus putting your fingers in the Orthodox "pie" by criticising an Orthodox Christian for having their finger in the "Catholic pie" by responding to RC claims posted on an Orthodox forum.

 Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes   Tongue

Just to be clear, Peter J is an EC, not RC.  I know the Orthodox are fond of saying that RCs and ECs are the same thing, but as a former EC myself, those who are ECs do not see themselves as the same as RCs.
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« Reply #119 on: March 08, 2013, 09:08:39 AM »

All of the College of Cardinal electors were appointed by either Pope Benedict XVI or Pope John Paul II.  Both popes were committed to the holiness of the Tridentine Mass.  I doubt that the next pope will retreat on their actions to promote regular parish celebration of the Tridentine Mass.

It is counter to the unity of the Roman Church to have two parallel Liturgies running side-by-side.  It only makes those heretic schismatics continue their charades and pretend to be part of the Church when they think everyone else outside of their delusional group as "invalid" and "heretic".
Your new church classifies all Latins as "heretic schismatics." why single out the sspx?

It's a position I held as a Roman Catholic and as an Ukrainian Catholic.  Why change now? Wink

Hmmm ... hopefully your plan isn't to be one of those Orthodox who constantly have their fingers in the Catholic "pie". I think we have enough of that already with podkarpatska and ialmisry.  Roll Eyes

Let me get this straight.  So you are, as an RC, posting on an Orthodox forum thus putting your fingers in the Orthodox "pie" by criticising an Orthodox Christian for having their finger in the "Catholic pie" by responding to RC claims posted on an Orthodox forum.

 Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes   Tongue

Hi Father H. You're entitled to your opinion of course, but I don't believe that I've been 'putting [my] fingers in the Orthodox "pie" ' in my participation on this forum. (If I have, or if I've offended you in general, I apologize.  Sad) For the sake of comparison, I would recommend that you read podkarpatska's comments about Catholics in posts 29-68 of this thread.
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« Reply #120 on: March 08, 2013, 10:55:38 AM »

All of the College of Cardinal electors were appointed by either Pope Benedict XVI or Pope John Paul II.  Both popes were committed to the holiness of the Tridentine Mass.  I doubt that the next pope will retreat on their actions to promote regular parish celebration of the Tridentine Mass.

It is counter to the unity of the Roman Church to have two parallel Liturgies running side-by-side.  It only makes those heretic schismatics continue their charades and pretend to be part of the Church when they think everyone else outside of their delusional group as "invalid" and "heretic".
Your new church classifies all Latins as "heretic schismatics." why single out the sspx?

It's a position I held as a Roman Catholic and as an Ukrainian Catholic.  Why change now? Wink

Hmmm ... hopefully your plan isn't to be one of those Orthodox who constantly have their fingers in the Catholic "pie". I think we have enough of that already with podkarpatska and ialmisry.  Roll Eyes

Let me get this straight.  So you are, as an RC, posting on an Orthodox forum thus putting your fingers in the Orthodox "pie" by criticising an Orthodox Christian for having their finger in the "Catholic pie" by responding to RC claims posted on an Orthodox forum.

 Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes   Tongue
Most of the time Catholics here are responding to Catholic news or correcting Izzy's misconceptions and distortions of Catholicism.  Cheesy
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« Reply #121 on: March 08, 2013, 11:43:00 AM »

All of the College of Cardinal electors were appointed by either Pope Benedict XVI or Pope John Paul II.  Both popes were committed to the holiness of the Tridentine Mass.  I doubt that the next pope will retreat on their actions to promote regular parish celebration of the Tridentine Mass.

It is counter to the unity of the Roman Church to have two parallel Liturgies running side-by-side.  It only makes those heretic schismatics continue their charades and pretend to be part of the Church when they think everyone else outside of their delusional group as "invalid" and "heretic".
Your new church classifies all Latins as "heretic schismatics." why single out the sspx?

It's a position I held as a Roman Catholic and as an Ukrainian Catholic.  Why change now? Wink

Hmmm ... hopefully your plan isn't to be one of those Orthodox who constantly have their fingers in the Catholic "pie". I think we have enough of that already with podkarpatska and ialmisry.  Roll Eyes

Let me get this straight.  So you are, as an RC, posting on an Orthodox forum thus putting your fingers in the Orthodox "pie" by criticising an Orthodox Christian for having their finger in the "Catholic pie" by responding to RC claims posted on an Orthodox forum.

 Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes  Roll Eyes   Tongue
Most of the time Catholics here are responding to Catholic news or correcting Izzy's
whose?
misconceptions and distortions of Catholicism.  Cheesy
IOW, they're doing this:

Is he saying "Izzy!"?

"podkarpatska and ialmisry": someone here can't distinguish between the gentle touch and a sledge hammer.
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« Reply #122 on: March 08, 2013, 11:55:33 AM »

IOW, they're doing this:


The only reason we have to do this is because your distortions are the like some one scratching a chalkbord.
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« Reply #123 on: March 08, 2013, 11:58:19 AM »

Oddly enough, your touch of humor seems to have cheered me up a bit.  Undecided  Smiley

But anyhow

"podkarpatska and ialmisry": someone here can't distinguish between the gentle touch and a sledge hammer.

I think a jackhammer is a better imagine for you than a sledge hammer. You know, kind of a steady da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da, as opposed to . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . BOOM!
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« Reply #124 on: March 08, 2013, 12:12:25 PM »

Oddly enough, your touch of humor seems to have cheered me up a bit.  Undecided  Smiley

But anyhow

"podkarpatska and ialmisry": someone here can't distinguish between the gentle touch and a sledge hammer.

I think a jackhammer is a better imagine for you than a sledge hammer. You know, kind of a steady da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da, as opposed to . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . BOOM!
I always thought it was a bit more of high-pitched we-we-we-we-we-we-we-we-we-we-we-we-we-we-we-we-we-we-we-we-we-we
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« Reply #125 on: March 08, 2013, 12:17:06 PM »

This thread has become childish indeed.

Wait, scrap that. It hasn't become childish but was so from its conception.
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« Reply #126 on: March 08, 2013, 12:20:37 PM »

IOW, they're doing this:


The only reason we have to do this is because your distortions are the like some one scratching a chalkbord.
Truth one doesn't want to hear always rings unpleasant.
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« Reply #127 on: March 08, 2013, 12:21:12 PM »

This thread has become childish indeed.

Wait, scrap that. It hasn't become childish but was so from its conception.
An argument for contraception.
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« Reply #128 on: March 08, 2013, 12:21:50 PM »

Oddly enough, your touch of humor seems to have cheered me up a bit.  Undecided  Smiley

But anyhow

"podkarpatska and ialmisry": someone here can't distinguish between the gentle touch and a sledge hammer.

I think a jackhammer is a better imagine for you than a sledge hammer. You know, kind of a steady da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da, as opposed to . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . BOOM!
I always thought it was a bit more of high-pitched we-we-we-we-we-we-we-we-we-we-we-we-we-we-we-we-we-we-we-we-we-we

Whoa, where do you buy your jackhammers?
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« Reply #129 on: March 08, 2013, 12:23:11 PM »

Truth one doesn't want to hear always rings unpleasant.

Fair enough.

But on the other hand, not everything that rings unpleasant is truth.

(I just realized that I probably just set myself up for something.  Embarrassed  laugh)
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« Reply #130 on: March 08, 2013, 12:23:27 PM »

This thread has become childish indeed.

Wait, scrap that. It hasn't become childish but was so from its conception.
An argument for contraception.


Ehh... it appears to be so.

 Smiley
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« Reply #131 on: March 08, 2013, 12:32:54 PM »

IOW, they're doing this:


The only reason we have to do this is because your distortions are the like some one scratching a chalkbord.
Truth one doesn't want to hear always rings unpleasant.
You must know this from experience. How painful is it to you?
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« Reply #132 on: March 08, 2013, 12:33:18 PM »

This thread has become childish indeed.

Wait, scrap that. It hasn't become childish but was so from its conception.
An argument for contraception.
Onansim.
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« Reply #133 on: March 08, 2013, 12:45:06 PM »

This thread has become childish indeed.

Wait, scrap that. It hasn't become childish but was so from its conception.
An argument for contraception.
Onansim.

I certainly hope that this thread won't turn in a debate about Onan because that's one of the few things that could make this thread even worse  Undecided
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« Reply #134 on: March 08, 2013, 01:04:02 PM »

IOW, they're doing this:


The only reason we have to do this is because your distortions are the like some one scratching a chalkbord.
Truth one doesn't want to hear always rings unpleasant.
You must know this from experience. How painful is it to you?
When I left Lutheranism, not painful at all.  The balm of Orthodoxy heals all wounds.
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                           and both come out of your mouth
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« Reply #135 on: March 08, 2013, 01:04:55 PM »

IOW, they're doing this:


The only reason we have to do this is because your distortions are the like some one scratching a chalkbord.
Truth one doesn't want to hear always rings unpleasant.
You must know this from experience. How painful is it to you?
When I left Lutheranism, not painful at all.  The balm of Orthodoxy heals all wounds.
Your attacks on Catholics are still very Lutheran. Are you sure you converted?
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« Reply #136 on: March 08, 2013, 01:16:29 PM »

Hmm ... do we really want to get into the Who's-Lutheran question here?
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« Reply #137 on: March 08, 2013, 01:21:19 PM »

IOW, they're doing this:


The only reason we have to do this is because your distortions are the like some one scratching a chalkbord.
Truth one doesn't want to hear always rings unpleasant.
You must know this from experience. How painful is it to you?
When I left Lutheranism, not painful at all.  The balm of Orthodoxy heals all wounds.
Your attacks on Catholics are still very Lutheran. Are you sure you converted?
Quite sure. Have you?
Hmm ... do we really want to get into the Who's-Lutheran question here?
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,50261.0.html

Apologists for the Vatican are always saying that the Orthodox are just like the Protestants. After all, we both expose the sovereign of Vatican city and his claims for what they are, how can it be otherwise?  Roll Eyes

So, pray tell, what differentiates a Lutheran "attack" from an Orthodox "attack" on the Vatican?

If you can't make the distinction, then that exposes the "very Lutheran" for the ad hominem attack that it is.

Followers of the Vatican cannot demonstrate the papal dictate, just give it "religious submission of mind and will...in religious assent."
You are Eastern Orthodox.
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If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
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« Reply #138 on: March 08, 2013, 01:29:45 PM »

IOW, they're doing this:


The only reason we have to do this is because your distortions are the like some one scratching a chalkbord.
Truth one doesn't want to hear always rings unpleasant.
You must know this from experience. How painful is it to you?
When I left Lutheranism, not painful at all.  The balm of Orthodoxy heals all wounds.
Your attacks on Catholics are still very Lutheran. Are you sure you converted?
Quite sure. Have you?
Hmm ... do we really want to get into the Who's-Lutheran question here?
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,50261.0.html

Apologists for the Vatican are always saying that the Orthodox are just like the Protestants.

Not all of us.
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« Reply #139 on: March 08, 2013, 01:53:38 PM »

IOW, they're doing this:


The only reason we have to do this is because your distortions are the like some one scratching a chalkbord.
Truth one doesn't want to hear always rings unpleasant.
You must know this from experience. How painful is it to you?
When I left Lutheranism, not painful at all.  The balm of Orthodoxy heals all wounds.
Your attacks on Catholics are still very Lutheran. Are you sure you converted?
Quite sure. Have you?
Hmm ... do we really want to get into the Who's-Lutheran question here?
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,50261.0.html

Apologists for the Vatican are always saying that the Orthodox are just like the Protestants. After all, we both expose the sovereign of Vatican city and his claims for what they are, how can it be otherwise?  Roll Eyes

So, pray tell, what differentiates a Lutheran "attack" from an Orthodox "attack" on the Vatican?

If you can't make the distinction, then that exposes the "very Lutheran" for the ad hominem attack that it is.

Followers of the Vatican cannot demonstrate the papal dictate, just give it "religious submission of mind and will...in religious assent."
You are Eastern Orthodox.
I don't think that all Orthodox are protestants. I only think those who continue the Protestant attack on Catholics are Protestants.
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« Reply #140 on: March 08, 2013, 01:56:42 PM »

Might it be that the Reformers got most of their arguments against the Papacy from the Eastern Orthodox?
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« Reply #141 on: March 08, 2013, 01:58:40 PM »

Might it be that the Reformers got most of their arguments against the Papacy from the Eastern Orthodox?
That's not what I am talking about. What I am talking about is Isa's irrational rage against "The Vatican."
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« Reply #142 on: March 08, 2013, 02:02:13 PM »

Might it be that the Reformers got most of their arguments against the Papacy from the Eastern Orthodox?

Quite possible.  But remember the EO and the Protestants have different views on the Papacy.  We still view the Pope as a bishop that is necessary for the Church, albeit we do not agree with how his role is defined and even dogmatized.  Most Protestants don't even believe in the Episcopacy.  They don't reject the Pope because of universal ordinary jurisdiction or supremacy or infallibility.  They reject the Papacy because they reject the Episcopacy overall.
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« Reply #143 on: March 08, 2013, 02:02:40 PM »

IOW, they're doing this:


The only reason we have to do this is because your distortions are the like some one scratching a chalkbord.
Truth one doesn't want to hear always rings unpleasant.
You must know this from experience. How painful is it to you?
When I left Lutheranism, not painful at all.  The balm of Orthodoxy heals all wounds.
Your attacks on Catholics are still very Lutheran. Are you sure you converted?
Quite sure. Have you?
Hmm ... do we really want to get into the Who's-Lutheran question here?
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,50261.0.html

Apologists for the Vatican are always saying that the Orthodox are just like the Protestants. After all, we both expose the sovereign of Vatican city and his claims for what they are, how can it be otherwise?  Roll Eyes

So, pray tell, what differentiates a Lutheran "attack" from an Orthodox "attack" on the Vatican?

If you can't make the distinction, then that exposes the "very Lutheran" for the ad hominem attack that it is.

Followers of the Vatican cannot demonstrate the papal dictate, just give it "religious submission of mind and will...in religious assent."
You are Eastern Orthodox.
I don't think that all Orthodox are protestants. I only think those who continue the Protestant attack on Catholics are Protestants.
The Protestants came into existence in 1517 (a century or so earlier, if you count the Waldensians).  The Catholics have been forming the Orthodox resistance to Ultramontanism ever since it took over Old Rome, e.g. St. Photios the Great Encyclical to the Eastern Patriarchs
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1424683/posts
centuries earlier than the Lutheran Book of Concorde's "Treatise on the Power and Primacy of the Pop"
http://bookofconcord.org/treatise.php
or if you prefer the orginal Latin
http://bookofconcord.org/pdf/triglotta_book_of_concord_pp267-1285_german_latin_only.pdf
« Last Edit: March 08, 2013, 02:30:44 PM by ialmisry » Logged

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                           and both come out of your mouth
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« Reply #144 on: March 08, 2013, 02:06:12 PM »

IOW, they're doing this:


The only reason we have to do this is because your distortions are the like some one scratching a chalkbord.
Truth one doesn't want to hear always rings unpleasant.
You must know this from experience. How painful is it to you?
When I left Lutheranism, not painful at all.  The balm of Orthodoxy heals all wounds.
Your attacks on Catholics are still very Lutheran. Are you sure you converted?
Quite sure. Have you?
Hmm ... do we really want to get into the Who's-Lutheran question here?
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,50261.0.html

Apologists for the Vatican are always saying that the Orthodox are just like the Protestants. After all, we both expose the sovereign of Vatican city and his claims for what they are, how can it be otherwise?  Roll Eyes

So, pray tell, what differentiates a Lutheran "attack" from an Orthodox "attack" on the Vatican?

If you can't make the distinction, then that exposes the "very Lutheran" for the ad hominem attack that it is.

Followers of the Vatican cannot demonstrate the papal dictate, just give it "religious submission of mind and will...in religious assent."
You are Eastern Orthodox.
I don't think that all Orthodox are protestants. I only think those who continue the Protestant attack on Catholics are Protestants.
When you constantly engage in irrational and rude attacks on the Catholic Church, that betrays a very protestant mindset.
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« Reply #145 on: March 08, 2013, 02:07:00 PM »

Might it be that the Reformers got most of their arguments against the Papacy from the Eastern Orthodox?

Quite possible.  But remember the EO and the Protestants have different views on the Papacy.  We still view the Pope as a bishop that is necessary for the Church, albeit we do not agree with how his role is defined and even dogmatized.  Most Protestants don't even believe in the Episcopacy.  They don't reject the Pope because of universal ordinary jurisdiction or supremacy or infallibility.  They reject the Papacy because they reject the Episcopacy overall.

Yes, that is so. Yet I think that the early Reformers got many of their arguments against the Papacy from the Eastern Orthodox, and not the other way around. Calling EO attacks on the RC's "protestant" seems weird to me.
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« Reply #146 on: March 08, 2013, 02:14:05 PM »

Might it be that the Reformers got most of their arguments against the Papacy from the Eastern Orthodox?

Quite possible.  But remember the EO and the Protestants have different views on the Papacy.  We still view the Pope as a bishop that is necessary for the Church, albeit we do not agree with how his role is defined and even dogmatized.  Most Protestants don't even believe in the Episcopacy.  They don't reject the Pope because of universal ordinary jurisdiction or supremacy or infallibility.  They reject the Papacy because they reject the Episcopacy overall.

Yes, that is so. Yet I think that the early Reformers got many of their arguments against the Papacy from the Eastern Orthodox, and not the other way around. Calling EO attacks on the RC's "protestant" seems weird to me.
Again, I'm this is not what I'm referring to. It's Izzy's overall rude and irrational attack on Cathoclicism which is very protestant. The reason Protestants exist is to protest the Catholic Church. This seems to be Izzy's reason for being here.
From the Rules Page:
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* Contain Conflict --  With religious discussion, disagreement is inevitable.  Please be civil and keep conflict (provided it's on topic) within the thread it was posted in.  If your conflict seems to be taking a thread off of its course, please start a new one.

This running feud you've been having with ialmisry the last few days has now spanned three different threads on at least two different sections of this forum, thus putting you in clear violation of the rule I cited above. Considering your long rap sheet of penalties for repeated conflicts with others and personal attacks on others, I am hereby placing you on Post Moderation for the next 99 days. Do this again, and you will likely be muted.

If you deem this action wrong, please feel free to appeal it to me via private message.

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« Reply #147 on: March 08, 2013, 02:17:59 PM »

Might it be that the Reformers got most of their arguments against the Papacy from the Eastern Orthodox?

Quite possible.  But remember the EO and the Protestants have different views on the Papacy.  We still view the Pope as a bishop that is necessary for the Church, albeit we do not agree with how his role is defined and even dogmatized.  Most Protestants don't even believe in the Episcopacy.  They don't reject the Pope because of universal ordinary jurisdiction or supremacy or infallibility.  They reject the Papacy because they reject the Episcopacy overall.

Yes, that is so. Yet I think that the early Reformers got many of their arguments against the Papacy from the Eastern Orthodox, and not the other way around. Calling EO attacks on the RC's "protestant" seems weird to me.

Oh definitely.  Didn't some of the early Protestants try to forge an alliance with the EO to battle Rome (in a theological debate sense)?  The funny thing I found when I was Catholic and listening to all the rhetorics and polemics against the Catholic Church, the anti-Catholics would actually side with one another and agree on whatever they can dish against the Roman Catholic Church.  They would even side with the Restorationists and the Muslims.  And like my question on the thread about Mary having more children, most of these attacks don't even have a basis in their own belief.  They just adopt them to attack the RCs even though it has no bearing in their own beliefs.
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« Reply #148 on: March 08, 2013, 02:24:39 PM »

IOW, they're doing this:


The only reason we have to do this is because your distortions are the like some one scratching a chalkbord.
Truth one doesn't want to hear always rings unpleasant.
You must know this from experience. How painful is it to you?
When I left Lutheranism, not painful at all.  The balm of Orthodoxy heals all wounds.
Your attacks on Catholics are still very Lutheran. Are you sure you converted?
Quite sure. Have you?
Hmm ... do we really want to get into the Who's-Lutheran question here?
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,50261.0.html

Apologists for the Vatican are always saying that the Orthodox are just like the Protestants. After all, we both expose the sovereign of Vatican city and his claims for what they are, how can it be otherwise?  Roll Eyes

So, pray tell, what differentiates a Lutheran "attack" from an Orthodox "attack" on the Vatican?

If you can't make the distinction, then that exposes the "very Lutheran" for the ad hominem attack that it is.

Followers of the Vatican cannot demonstrate the papal dictate, just give it "religious submission of mind and will...in religious assent."
You are Eastern Orthodox.
I don't think that all Orthodox are protestants. I only think those who continue the Protestant attack on Catholics are Protestants.
When you constantly engage in irrational and rude attacks on the Catholic Church, that betrays a very protestant mindset.
Sic Papistus dixit ex cathedra March 8, 2013 +

Engaging in irrational rude attacks in protest betrays that you have lost the argument.
From the Rules Page:
Quote
* Contain Conflict --  With religious discussion, disagreement is inevitable.  Please be civil and keep conflict (provided it's on topic) within the thread it was posted in.  If your conflict seems to be taking a thread off of its course, please start a new one.

This running feud you've been having with Papist the last few days has now spanned three different threads on at least two different sections of this forum, thus putting you in clear violation of the rule I cited above. Considering your rap sheet of repeated penalties for conflicts with others, I am hereby placing you on Post Moderation for the next 30 days.

If you deem this action wrong, please feel free to appeal it to me via private message.

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« Reply #149 on: March 08, 2013, 02:31:26 PM »

We still view the Pope as a bishop that is necessary for the Church,

Not sure who do you mean by "we". Eastern Orthodox Christian do not view bishop of Rome to  be necessary at all. We are without him for about 1k years and are doing just fine.
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« Reply #150 on: March 08, 2013, 02:36:56 PM »

I thought that he meant to say that the Church needs the office of the bishop.
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« Reply #151 on: March 08, 2013, 02:37:54 PM »

We still view the Pope as a bishop that is necessary for the Church,

Not sure who do you mean by "we". Eastern Orthodox Christian do not view bishop of Rome to  be necessary at all. We are without him for about 1k years and are doing just fine.

Okay, let me break it down for you here.

We view that a bishop is necessary for a Church.  And the Pope is such a bishop.
Protestants, at least most of them, not all, do not even believe that a bishop is necesary.

Clearer?
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« Reply #152 on: March 08, 2013, 02:38:40 PM »

I thought that he meant to say that the Church needs the office of the bishop.

Thank you.  I was worried my choice of words were wrong.  I guess they are just a bit confusing.  But you understood what I was saying, thanks.  Smiley
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« Reply #153 on: March 08, 2013, 02:38:48 PM »

Might it be that the Reformers got most of their arguments against the Papacy from the Eastern Orthodox?

Quite possible.  But remember the EO and the Protestants have different views on the Papacy.  We still view the Pope as a bishop that is necessary for the Church, albeit we do not agree with how his role is defined and even dogmatized.  Most Protestants don't even believe in the Episcopacy.  They don't reject the Pope because of universal ordinary jurisdiction or supremacy or infallibility.  They reject the Papacy because they reject the Episcopacy overall.

Yes, that is so. Yet I think that the early Reformers got many of their arguments against the Papacy from the Eastern Orthodox, and not the other way around. Calling EO attacks on the RC's "protestant" seems weird to me.
Again, I'm this is not what I'm referring to. It's Izzy's
who?
overall rude and irrational attack on Cathoclicism which is very protestant.
an ad hominem attack is rude and irrational.

You have the links to a Protestant/Lutheran attack on the Vatican, and an refutation of the Vatican's claims by the pillar of Orthodoxy, St. Photius the Great

The reason Protestants exist is to protest the Catholic Church.
It seems that you agree with the Protestants: they assUmed, as shown by the correspondence of the Tubingen Lutheran theologians with EP Jeremiah II, the same assertion you are making, and concluded that they and Orthodoxy were one and the same.  The EP disabused them of such folly.

This seems to be Izzy's
who?
reason for being here.
I'm just here as a Catholic defending the Orthodox Faith.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2013, 02:39:19 PM by ialmisry » Logged

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« Reply #154 on: March 08, 2013, 02:44:26 PM »

IOW, they're doing this:


The only reason we have to do this is because your distortions are the like some one scratching a chalkbord.
Truth one doesn't want to hear always rings unpleasant.
You must know this from experience. How painful is it to you?
When I left Lutheranism, not painful at all.  The balm of Orthodoxy heals all wounds.
Your attacks on Catholics are still very Lutheran. Are you sure you converted?
Quite sure. Have you?
Hmm ... do we really want to get into the Who's-Lutheran question here?
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,50261.0.html

Yes, I remember that "Papist is really a Lutheran" thread. Can't say I was sorry to see the mods lock it.
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« Reply #155 on: March 08, 2013, 02:45:56 PM »

Might it be that the Reformers got most of their arguments against the Papacy from the Eastern Orthodox?

If you mean most of their best arguments, I'd say Yes.
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« Reply #156 on: March 08, 2013, 03:38:27 PM »

We view that a bishop is necessary for a Church.

Specified bishop? No.

Quote
And the Pope is such a bishop.

Roman Pope? There isn't one.
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« Reply #157 on: March 08, 2013, 03:52:38 PM »

We view that a bishop is necessary for a Church.

Specified bishop? No.

Where did I say that?  I said A bishop.  And St. Ignatius of Antioch teaches that.

Quote
And the Pope is such a bishop.

Roman Pope? There isn't one.

There is, and he is in schism from us.  But he is still a bishop.  He is not an Orthodox bishop, but he is a bishop.
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« Reply #158 on: March 08, 2013, 03:53:05 PM »

We view that a bishop is necessary for a Church.

Specified bishop? No.

Quote
And the Pope is such a bishop.

Roman Pope? There isn't one.

Yes, the "sede" is currently, and temporarily, "vacant".  Wink
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« Reply #159 on: March 08, 2013, 03:53:49 PM »

Yes, the "sede" is currently, and temporarily, "vacant".  Wink

ULTRA-TRADDIE!!!!


 Grin
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« Reply #160 on: March 08, 2013, 03:54:40 PM »

Yes, the "sede" is currently, and temporarily, "vacant".  Wink

ULTRA-TRADDIE!!!!


 Grin
Speaking of Traddies, some of the traditioinalists over at another forum called me a "modernist" yeterstday.  Cheesy
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« Reply #161 on: March 08, 2013, 03:55:35 PM »

Yes, the "sede" is currently, and temporarily, "vacant".  Wink

ULTRA-TRADDIE!!!!


 Grin

 laugh laugh laugh

Well, as a Byzantine Catholic, I do love my Eastern traditions!!  Wink
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« Reply #162 on: March 08, 2013, 03:56:17 PM »

Yes, the "sede" is currently, and temporarily, "vacant".  Wink

ULTRA-TRADDIE!!!!


 Grin
Speaking of Traddies, some of the traditioinalists over at another forum called me a "modernist" yeterstday.  Cheesy

I'm starting to like you now  Grin
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« Reply #163 on: March 08, 2013, 03:56:54 PM »

Yes, the "sede" is currently, and temporarily, "vacant".  Wink

ULTRA-TRADDIE!!!!


 Grin
Speaking of Traddies, some of the traditioinalists over at another forum called me a "modernist" yeterstday.  Cheesy

You must be doin' something right if you've got the traddies and the anti-traddies mad at you  Cheesy.
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« Reply #164 on: March 08, 2013, 03:57:06 PM »

There is, and he is in schism from us.  But he is still a bishop.

Do you consider Abp of Canterbury a Bishop too?
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« Reply #165 on: March 08, 2013, 03:57:22 PM »


Speaking of Traddies, some of the traditioinalists over at another forum called me a "modernist" yeterstday.  Cheesy

 Shocked

That must be a pretty traditionalist forum.
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« Reply #166 on: March 08, 2013, 03:58:12 PM »

Yes, the "sede" is currently, and temporarily, "vacant".  Wink

ULTRA-TRADDIE!!!!


 Grin
Speaking of Traddies, some of the traditioinalists over at another forum called me a "modernist" yeterstday.  Cheesy

I'm starting to like you now  Grin

What's not to like about Papist?  Wink  (Isa, don't answer that  Grin!)
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« Reply #167 on: March 08, 2013, 04:01:32 PM »

Yes, the "sede" is currently, and temporarily, "vacant".  Wink

ULTRA-TRADDIE!!!!


 Grin
Speaking of Traddies, some of the traditioinalists over at another forum called me a "modernist" yeterstday.  Cheesy

I'm starting to like you now  Grin

What's not to like about Papist?  Wink  (Isa, don't answer that  Grin!)
I can't: "papism" is a forbidden word.
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« Reply #168 on: March 08, 2013, 04:04:28 PM »

Yes, the "sede" is currently, and temporarily, "vacant".  Wink

ULTRA-TRADDIE!!!!


 Grin
Speaking of Traddies, some of the traditioinalists over at another forum called me a "modernist" yeterstday.  Cheesy

You must be doin' something right if you've got the traddies and the anti-traddies mad at you  Cheesy.
or maybe I'm just awful and everyone is mad at me.  Grin
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« Reply #169 on: March 08, 2013, 05:22:00 PM »

Speaking of Traddies, some of the traditioinalists over at another forum called me a "modernist" yeterstday.  Cheesy

Oh, I've been there. Smiley Well, I don't recall whether they ever called me by that specific term, but that's the gist of what a lot of Catholics (including some that I don't think are really traditional themselves) on Catholic fora think of me.
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« Reply #170 on: March 08, 2013, 05:22:47 PM »

Or maybe Traddies are just normal traddie, and ultra-traddies are really modernists with such guilt over the matter that they pretend to be traddies.
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« Reply #171 on: March 08, 2013, 05:24:12 PM »

Or maybe Traddies are just normal traddie, and ultra-traddies are really modernists with such guilt over the matter that they pretend to be traddies.
Yes
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« Reply #172 on: March 08, 2013, 05:25:44 PM »

"papism" is a forbidden word.

Hmmm ... maybe after all these years, we should start a "Change Papist's Screenname" campaign.

 Smiley :thoughful:  Cool
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« Reply #173 on: March 08, 2013, 05:28:34 PM »

I thought "Papism" was only forbidden by the Southern Baptists and the Presbyterians...
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« Reply #174 on: March 08, 2013, 05:33:59 PM »

I thought "Papism" was only forbidden by the Southern Baptists and the Presbyterians...

Yes, but forbidden nonetheless.  Isa didn't qualify it any further than that.  Grin
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« Reply #175 on: March 08, 2013, 05:37:05 PM »

I suppose it's proper but improper- like adding the Pope's name to the great litany for vespers at home, then realising you're not supposed to say the great litany for readers services.  Shocked
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« Reply #176 on: March 08, 2013, 05:49:39 PM »

What's not to like about Papist?  Wink  (Isa, don't answer that  Grin!)

The fact that his username got me banned from CAF  Grin Grin Grin
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« Reply #177 on: March 08, 2013, 05:51:43 PM »

There is, and he is in schism from us.  But he is still a bishop.

Do you consider Abp of Canterbury a Bishop too?

If the Pope become Orthodox, will be he reordained or be treated as just a layman?
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« Reply #178 on: March 08, 2013, 05:55:07 PM »

What's not to like about Papist?  Wink  (Isa, don't answer that  Grin!)

The fact that his username got me banned from CAF  Grin Grin Grin

How the heck did *that* happen??
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« Reply #179 on: March 08, 2013, 06:00:52 PM »

What's not to like about Papist?  Wink  (Isa, don't answer that  Grin!)

The fact that his username got me banned from CAF  Grin Grin Grin

Welcome to the ranks of our group of those illustrous men banished from CAF.
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« Reply #180 on: March 08, 2013, 06:02:06 PM »

If the Pope become Orthodox,

I guess his successor will have to keep a close eye on him to make sure that doesn't happen. Wink
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« Reply #181 on: March 08, 2013, 06:03:17 PM »

What's not to like about Papist?  Wink  (Isa, don't answer that  Grin!)

The fact that his username got me banned from CAF  Grin Grin Grin

Welcome to the ranks of our group of those illustrous men banished from CAF.

You mean permanently? If so I guess I don't qualify.
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« Reply #182 on: March 08, 2013, 06:12:43 PM »

What's not to like about Papist?  Wink  (Isa, don't answer that  Grin!)

The fact that his username got me banned from CAF  Grin Grin Grin

Welcome to the ranks of our group of those illustrous men banished from CAF.

You mean permanently? If so I guess I don't qualify.

Yes, yes. We can't allow just anyone in our club.
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« Reply #183 on: March 08, 2013, 06:34:05 PM »

What's not to like about Papist?  Wink  (Isa, don't answer that  Grin!)

The fact that his username got me banned from CAF  Grin Grin Grin

Welcome to the ranks of our group of those illustrous men banished from CAF.

You mean permanently? If so I guess I don't qualify.

Wouldn't know- the people on CAF like me- until I get in the Traditionalists section. Then people don't like me no more...  Cry I mean, just because some of my traditions are older than Trent...
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« Reply #184 on: March 08, 2013, 06:59:03 PM »

What's not to like about Papist?  Wink  (Isa, don't answer that  Grin!)

The fact that his username got me banned from CAF  Grin Grin Grin

How the heck did *that* happen??

I called someone a "papist"  Grin
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« Reply #185 on: March 08, 2013, 06:59:44 PM »

What's not to like about Papist?  Wink  (Isa, don't answer that  Grin!)

The fact that his username got me banned from CAF  Grin Grin Grin

Welcome to the ranks of our group of those illustrous men banished from CAF.

You mean permanently? If so I guess I don't qualify.

Well, current acount is suspended.  But I have been banned before Wink
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« Reply #186 on: March 08, 2013, 07:41:19 PM »

What's not to like about Papist?  Wink  (Isa, don't answer that  Grin!)

The fact that his username got me banned from CAF  Grin Grin Grin

How the heck did *that* happen??

I called someone a "papist"  Grin
I was also banned from CAF. Smiley
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« Reply #187 on: March 08, 2013, 07:43:41 PM »

"papism" is a forbidden word.

Hmmm ... maybe after all these years, we should start a "Change Papist's Screenname" campaign.

 Smiley :thoughful:  Cool
Change? On an Orthodox forum? Is outrage!!!!
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