Jews and their wives

[andrewlya]

Hi,
Ive heard/read that the Jews can marry up to 4 wives providing they can financially maintain them all.However, I believe this has now been abolished to be in line with "the modern world". I wanted to know, Is polygamy allowed according to the Jewish Law?If this is the case, then this was changed in the New Testament, is this right?

[biro]

That's a lie. That's the Muslims who can marry up to four wives, and they probably put words in the Jewish people's mouths, to make up for the fact that Islam did not exist until centuries after Christ.

[andrewlya]

That's a lie. That's the Muslims who can marry up to four wives, and they probably put words in the Jewish people's mouths, to make up for the fact that Islam did not exist until centuries after Christ.

Please read, this is from the Jews forum.

http://www.jewswithquestions.com/index.php?/topic/208-having-multiple-wives/
http://judaism.about.com/od/torah/f/multiplewives.htm

[biro]

Well, Jews today are monogamous. The only people who still say it's okay to marry up to four people are certain Muslim countries, and a few other places where polygamy is legal. It's not legal in the U.S. or in Israel, which have the largest populations of Jews.

You please read, before you go posting these things. I've never met a Jew who said it was okay to be polygamous, in the present day. It may have been accepted in ancient times, but there is no way it's okay with them today. No mainstream or Orthodox groups, anyway.

[andrewlya]

Well, Jews today are monogamous. The only people who still say it's okay to marry up to four people are certain Muslim countries, and a few other places where polygamy is legal. It's not legal in the U.S. or in Israel, which have the largest populations of Jews.

You please read, before you go posting these things. I've never met a Jew who said it was okay to be polygamous, in the present day. It may have been accepted in ancient times, but there is no way it's okay with them today. No mainstream or Orthodox groups, anyway.

The Jews used to marry multiple wives in the past before it's got abolished if you read the links.

My questions is not whether they are allowed now, All I want to know is whether the Jewish law in the Torah actually allows to have more than one wife..

[Orthodox11]

All I want to know is whether the Jewish law in the Torah actually allows to have more than one wife..

The Torah obviously does since there are countless examples of people in the Old Testament who had more than one wife.

[Arachne]

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/558598/jewish/Does-Jewish-law-forbid-polygamy.htm

There ya go, horse's mouth and all.

[biro]

All I want to know is whether the Jewish law in the Torah actually allows to have more than one wife..

The Torah obviously does since there are countless examples of people in the Old Testament who had more than one wife.

Doesn't mean they were approved of. Probably they were imitating the pagans around them.

How many people were in the Garden of Eden, by comparison?

Just two. That was the original concept. The only one picked by God. Everything else... you're guessing.

[yeshuaisiam]

Well, Jews today are monogamous. The only people who still say it's okay to marry up to four people are certain Muslim countries, and a few other places where polygamy is legal. It's not legal in the U.S. or in Israel, which have the largest populations of Jews.

You please read, before you go posting these things. I've never met a Jew who said it was okay to be polygamous, in the present day. It may have been accepted in ancient times, but there is no way it's okay with them today. No mainstream or Orthodox groups, anyway.

The only thing condemned in the scriptures on Polygamy is that a Bishop must only have one wife.  This part is ignored in the EO church, and bishops are not allowed to have a wife.

This means that polygamy was basically condemned by a council of men (bishops), none which were married.

Morally I do not find anything wrong with polygamy, I do believe it to be biblical and fine for men to practice.  *Note* this does not mean I believe in group sex.  This means biblical polygamy.  This is where a man is married to multiple women, loves and cares for them all.   Nothing about being a bully, dictator, etc.  This means that his wives love him, and he loves them.  They all work as a family.

Now, to stave off the questions, YES my wife agrees with me and says she is perfectly open to polygamy if that is where I feel God is calling me.  However, I personally do not believe God is calling me to have more than my wife, as I do not desire other women emotionally or physically.  I'm extremely happy in a monogamous marriage and want no more.  Plus the honey-do list from two women would be incredible

As far as legality, I don't want to get into the issues because they could be considered political.  However, I can state that the laws vary by state.  Some states say it is okay so long as on paper the man is married to one wife, and the others just through his religion.  Some states say that a man can't consider himself married to multiple women period.  Some are more concerned about tax status, financial, etc.

As far as a woman with multiple husbands, this is not biblical.   Since the biblical structure is for the man to show love but lead his family, and the wife or wives submitting.  Also if there were two husbands and a woman were to get pregnant, without MODERN Science involved you would not know who the father was.  It would ruin the concept of biblical lineage.  On the flip side, a man with two wives, you would know who the father was.

It's not a popular way to think in our modern culture.... I don't have an issue with it myself, but certainly it is not my cup of tea.

[JamesRottnek]

Well, Jews today are monogamous. The only people who still say it's okay to marry up to four people are certain Muslim countries, and a few other places where polygamy is legal. It's not legal in the U.S. or in Israel, which have the largest populations of Jews.

You please read, before you go posting these things. I've never met a Jew who said it was okay to be polygamous, in the present day. It may have been accepted in ancient times, but there is no way it's okay with them today. No mainstream or Orthodox groups, anyway.

Actually, many Sephardic, Yemenite, and Mizrahi Jews still support polygamy.

[Asteriktos]

Well, Jews today are monogamous. The only people who still say it's okay to marry up to four people are certain Muslim countries, and a few other places where polygamy is legal. It's not legal in the U.S. or in Israel, which have the largest populations of Jews.

You please read, before you go posting these things. I've never met a Jew who said it was okay to be polygamous, in the present day. It may have been accepted in ancient times, but there is no way it's okay with them today. No mainstream or Orthodox groups, anyway.

Actually, many Sephardic, Yemenite, and Mizrahi Jews still support polygamy.

How dare you contradict Biro...

[biro]

Well, Jews today are monogamous. The only people who still say it's okay to marry up to four people are certain Muslim countries, and a few other places where polygamy is legal. It's not legal in the U.S. or in Israel, which have the largest populations of Jews.

You please read, before you go posting these things. I've never met a Jew who said it was okay to be polygamous, in the present day. It may have been accepted in ancient times, but there is no way it's okay with them today. No mainstream or Orthodox groups, anyway.

Actually, many Sephardic, Yemenite, and Mizrahi Jews still support polygamy.

First I've heard of it.

[JamesR]

I think it is the Muslims who in present times can marry up to four wives. Most modern day sects of Judaism are monogamous--save a few really old-school groups. In ancient times, however, Jews were allowed to have multiple wives. The Torah even condones it. The New Testament as well says nothing to suggest that marriage is now supposed to be monogamous. One could argue that they didn't have to, since it was already taken for granted due to the fact that the Roman empire only allowed monogamous marriage I believe. But that seems like kind of a speculative argument. Personally, this is another one of the things that the Church teaches which I have trouble accepting because the reasoning seems weak, such as a condemnation against fornication--which, is a later meaning we applied to the word. The original word meant temple prostitution, or the condemnation against homosexuality. Funny how the male g-spot is located in the anus...

[Michał Kalina]

Morally I do not find anything wrong with polygamy, I do believe it to be biblical and fine for men to practice.  *Note* this does not mean I believe in group sex.  This means biblical polygamy.  This is where a man is married to multiple women, loves and cares for them all.   Nothing about being a bully, dictator, etc.  This means that his wives love him, and he loves them.  They all work as a family.

Now, to stave off the questions, YES my wife agrees with me and says she is perfectly open to polygamy if that is where I feel God is calling me.  However, I personally do not believe God is calling me to have more than my wife, as I do not desire other women emotionally or physically.  I'm extremely happy in a monogamous marriage and want no more.  Plus the honey-do list from two women would be incredible

[JamesR]

No offense to anyone, but contrary to what most people think, I believe that God in the Old Testament was actually more appealing than God in the New Testament. The OT God was much more simple and basic with His instructions for us, making it very clear what He wanted us to do and not to do, and leaving open room for error because He knew how hard it is (as much as people don't want to admit it) to stay monogamous or to wait until marriage for sex, which is why if you had sex with someone before marriage, He only required that you married each other. God in the NT is much more confusing, strict, abstract and depressing.

[Tallitot]

Well, Jews today are monogamous. The only people who still say it's okay to marry up to four people are certain Muslim countries, and a few other places where polygamy is legal. It's not legal in the U.S. or in Israel, which have the largest populations of Jews.

You please read, before you go posting these things. I've never met a Jew who said it was okay to be polygamous, in the present day. It may have been accepted in ancient times, but there is no way it's okay with them today. No mainstream or Orthodox groups, anyway.

Actually, many Sephardic, Yemenite, and Mizrahi Jews still support polygamy.

In Judaism there is a pricipal "the law of the land is the law"; if a civil law doesn't case you violate G-d's law, it must be obeyed. Since polygamy is illegal in most countries today Jews must obey that law and have only one wife.I've read that some Sephardic, Yemenite, and Mizrahi Jews living in countries where polygamy is legal and a few do practice polygamy. There is nothing in the Torah that forbids this. these are mostly living in isolated rural areas. Also since polygamy is illegal in Isreal, most Jews in these countries don't practice polygamy since it would cause problems if they ever wanted to move there.

[ialmisry]

Well, Jews today are monogamous. The only people who still say it's okay to marry up to four people are certain Muslim countries, and a few other places where polygamy is legal. It's not legal in the U.S. or in Israel, which have the largest populations of Jews.

You please read, before you go posting these things. I've never met a Jew who said it was okay to be polygamous, in the present day. It may have been accepted in ancient times, but there is no way it's okay with them today. No mainstream or Orthodox groups, anyway.

Actually, many Sephardic, Yemenite, and Mizrahi Jews still support polygamy.

In Judaism there is a pricipal "the law of the land is the law"; if a civil law doesn't case you violate G-d's law, it must be obeyed. Since polygamy is illegal in most countries today Jews must obey that law and have only one wife.I've read that some Sephardic, Yemenite, and Mizrahi Jews living in countries where polygamy is legal and a few do practice polygamy. There is nothing in the Torah that forbids this. these are mostly living in isolated rural areas. Also since polygamy is illegal in Isreal, most Jews in these countries don't practice polygamy since it would cause problems if they ever wanted to move there.

Illegal?  There are numerous polygamous families in Palestine.  And if, "the law of the land is the land" and they think that the Torah gives them that land, and the Torah allows polygamy, well....

[Tallitot]

Well, Jews today are monogamous. The only people who still say it's okay to marry up to four people are certain Muslim countries, and a few other places where polygamy is legal. It's not legal in the U.S. or in Israel, which have the largest populations of Jews.

You please read, before you go posting these things. I've never met a Jew who said it was okay to be polygamous, in the present day. It may have been accepted in ancient times, but there is no way it's okay with them today. No mainstream or Orthodox groups, anyway.

Actually, many Sephardic, Yemenite, and Mizrahi Jews still support polygamy.

In Judaism there is a pricipal "the law of the land is the law"; if a civil law doesn't case you violate G-d's law, it must be obeyed. Since polygamy is illegal in most countries today Jews must obey that law and have only one wife.I've read that some Sephardic, Yemenite, and Mizrahi Jews living in countries where polygamy is legal and a few do practice polygamy. There is nothing in the Torah that forbids this. these are mostly living in isolated rural areas. Also since polygamy is illegal in Isreal, most Jews in these countries don't practice polygamy since it would cause problems if they ever wanted to move there.

Illegal?  There are numerous polygamous families in Palestine.  And if, "the law of the land is the land" and they think that the Torah gives them that land, and the Torah allows polygamy, well....

I was refering to isreali civil law.

[ialmisry]

Well, Jews today are monogamous. The only people who still say it's okay to marry up to four people are certain Muslim countries, and a few other places where polygamy is legal. It's not legal in the U.S. or in Israel, which have the largest populations of Jews.

You please read, before you go posting these things. I've never met a Jew who said it was okay to be polygamous, in the present day. It may have been accepted in ancient times, but there is no way it's okay with them today. No mainstream or Orthodox groups, anyway.

Actually, many Sephardic, Yemenite, and Mizrahi Jews still support polygamy.

In Judaism there is a pricipal "the law of the land is the law"; if a civil law doesn't case you violate G-d's law, it must be obeyed. Since polygamy is illegal in most countries today Jews must obey that law and have only one wife.I've read that some Sephardic, Yemenite, and Mizrahi Jews living in countries where polygamy is legal and a few do practice polygamy. There is nothing in the Torah that forbids this. these are mostly living in isolated rural areas. Also since polygamy is illegal in Isreal, most Jews in these countries don't practice polygamy since it would cause problems if they ever wanted to move there.

Illegal?  There are numerous polygamous families in Palestine.  And if, "the law of the land is the land" and they think that the Torah gives them that land, and the Torah allows polygamy, well....

I was refering to isreali civil law.

no such animal when it comes to marriage. Or Orthodox Judaism.

[JamesRottnek]

Well, Jews today are monogamous. The only people who still say it's okay to marry up to four people are certain Muslim countries, and a few other places where polygamy is legal. It's not legal in the U.S. or in Israel, which have the largest populations of Jews.

You please read, before you go posting these things. I've never met a Jew who said it was okay to be polygamous, in the present day. It may have been accepted in ancient times, but there is no way it's okay with them today. No mainstream or Orthodox groups, anyway.

Actually, many Sephardic, Yemenite, and Mizrahi Jews still support polygamy.

In Judaism there is a pricipal "the law of the land is the law"; if a civil law doesn't case you violate G-d's law, it must be obeyed. Since polygamy is illegal in most countries today Jews must obey that law and have only one wife.I've read that some Sephardic, Yemenite, and Mizrahi Jews living in countries where polygamy is legal and a few do practice polygamy. There is nothing in the Torah that forbids this. these are mostly living in isolated rural areas. Also since polygamy is illegal in Isreal, most Jews in these countries don't practice polygamy since it would cause problems if they ever wanted to move there.

Right.  I didn't mean to imply that if you ran into a Sephardic Jew in America he was probably a polygamist, only that non-Ashkenazim never banned polygamy, except in so far as their home country did.

[Charles Martel]

I can accept the fact of a man actually being married to more than one woman at a time (What firghtful thought actually) but that is if they are all in agreement with it and he is financially responsible for all of them and the children. I don't know why the govt would have a hard time with that but yet allow two dudes bind in nuptials and engaging in the most horrid form of sex imaginable. But then again, this is the govt that allows unborn children to be butchered almost to the point of the delivery room.

Anyway, America is rampant with it's own form of "polygamy" with many people having three or four "wives" and "husbands".

The divorce rate is astronomical.

Like the bible says they were" marrying and given in marriage" before they were destroyed.

[yeshuaisiam]

Morally I do not find anything wrong with polygamy, I do believe it to be biblical and fine for men to practice.  *Note* this does not mean I believe in group sex.  This means biblical polygamy.  This is where a man is married to multiple women, loves and cares for them all.   Nothing about being a bully, dictator, etc.  This means that his wives love him, and he loves them.  They all work as a family.

Now, to stave off the questions, YES my wife agrees with me and says she is perfectly open to polygamy if that is where I feel God is calling me.  However, I personally do not believe God is calling me to have more than my wife, as I do not desire other women emotionally or physically.  I'm extremely happy in a monogamous marriage and want no more.  Plus the honey-do list from two women would be incredible

LOL, no kidding.... mine is long enough! 

[yeshuaisiam]

No offense to anyone, but contrary to what most people think, I believe that God in the Old Testament was actually more appealing than God in the New Testament. The OT God was much more simple and basic with His instructions for us, making it very clear what He wanted us to do and not to do, and leaving open room for error because He knew how hard it is (as much as people don't want to admit it) to stay monogamous or to wait until marriage for sex, which is why if you had sex with someone before marriage, He only required that you married each other. God in the NT is much more confusing, strict, abstract and depressing.

James, a large part of the OT was about establishment with a certain body of people (Jews).  In the NT, there was a plan to spread out the message to all the people of the world.  Much parable was used.   This is because not "every single situation" could possibly be covered. 

For instance, the prodigal son parable, is symbolic.    People fall away from God in all kinds of ways... Drugs, adultery, greed etc., but it illustrates that with a humble heart and in humility our father will accept us back.   The "variable" exists in parable.

[Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)]

No offense to anyone, but contrary to what most people think, I believe that God in the Old Testament was actually more appealing than God in the New Testament. The OT God was much more simple and basic with His instructions for us, making it very clear what He wanted us to do and not to do, and leaving open room for error because He knew how hard it is (as much as people don't want to admit it) to stay monogamous or to wait until marriage for sex, which is why if you had sex with someone before marriage, He only required that you married each other. God in the NT is much more confusing, strict, abstract and depressing.

Yup, Christianity is much harder. So, you are depressed that you are forced right now to choose between lust and love, between the animalistic side of you and the side that was created in His image and likeness. You poor oppressed boy! You will show your Heavenly Father how much you resent such unfair treatment,won't you?

[Cantor Krishnich]

Well, Jews today are monogamous. The only people who still say it's okay to marry up to four people are certain Muslim countries, and a few other places where polygamy is legal. It's not legal in the U.S. or in Israel, which have the largest populations of Jews.

You please read, before you go posting these things. I've never met a Jew who said it was okay to be polygamous, in the present day. It may have been accepted in ancient times, but there is no way it's okay with them today. No mainstream or Orthodox groups, anyway.

Actually, many Sephardic, Yemenite, and Mizrahi Jews still support polygamy.

In Judaism there is a pricipal "the law of the land is the law"; if a civil law doesn't case you violate G-d's law, it must be obeyed. Since polygamy is illegal in most countries today Jews must obey that law and have only one wife.I've read that some Sephardic, Yemenite, and Mizrahi Jews living in countries where polygamy is legal and a few do practice polygamy. There is nothing in the Torah that forbids this. these are mostly living in isolated rural areas. Also since polygamy is illegal in Isreal, most Jews in these countries don't practice polygamy since it would cause problems if they ever wanted to move there.

Illegal?  There are numerous polygamous families in Palestine.  And if, "the law of the land is the land" and they think that the Torah gives them that land, and the Torah allows polygamy, well....

I was refering to isreali civil law.

Many people are trying to change this to make it in accordance to Halakha law and not Western-influenced laws. Before Israel was invented, I'm sure that there were plenty of polygamist Jews and many Jews who made immigrated to Israel were polygamists.

[JamesR]

I can accept the fact of a man actually being married to more than one woman at a time (What firghtful thought actually) but that is if they are all in agreement with it and he is financially responsible for all of them and the children. I don't know why the govt would have a hard time with that but yet allow two dudes bind in nuptials and engaging in the most horrid form of sex imaginable. But then again, this is the govt that allows unborn children to be butchered almost to the point of the delivery room.

Anyway, America is rampant with it's own form of "polygamy" with many people having three or four "wives" and "husbands".

The divorce rate is astronomical.

Like the bible says they were" marrying and given in marriage" before they were destroyed.

From a legal standpoint, all religion aside, I don't see how you could honestly compare homosexuality to polygamy. The difference is that while from a moral standpoint, homosexuality may be wrong, allowing them to marry monogamously will do nothing to harm the state. However, polygamy can potentially harm the state by costing us more money and even further clogging the divorce court.

[Cantor Krishnich]

Polygamy is accepted to some degree in Judaism and a few Sefardic, Mizrahi and Yemenite Jews do practice polygamy. The point is, that Christ has fulfilled the old law and we now have a new faith which has a strong ascetic flavor. Polygamy is not in accordance with Orthodoxy because it is not an ascetic practice, it is very self-centered and goes against what we were taught in the epistles and by Christ. Monogamy is more beautiful because it is a reflection of the love Christ has for the Church, a mutual sharing of love between two.     

I don't think Judaic Halakha law makes arguments against polygamy. If I'm not mistaken, although Rambam was personally against polygamy, he didn't completely forbid it in his teachings. The Hasidic and Haredi sects of the Ashkenazic Orthodox Jews are strongly monogamous from what I understand. Israeli law prohibits it in accordance to Western standards but many Halakhic scholars are trying hard to change this to make it in accordance to Halakha law.

[orthonorm]

For instance, the prodigal son parable, is symbolic. . . . but it illustrates that with a humble heart and in humility our father will accept us back.

Only have time to snipe lately, but if you think this is what the parable is about, you need to reread it or choose words that fall within some degree of precision to describe what you think it means.

[J Michael]

No offense to anyone, but contrary to what most people think, I believe that God in the Old Testament was actually more appealing than God in the New Testament. The OT God was much more simple and basic with His instructions for us, making it very clear what He wanted us to do and not to do, and leaving open room for error because He knew how hard it is (as much as people don't want to admit it) to stay monogamous or to wait until marriage for sex, which is why if you had sex with someone before marriage, He only required that you married each other. God in the NT is much more confusing, strict, abstract and depressing.

There is no OT God as distinct from a NT God.  Same God.  One God.  One only. 

[Achronos]

For instance, the prodigal son parable, is symbolic. . . . but it illustrates that with a humble heart and in humility our father will accept us back.

Only have time to snipe lately, but if you think this is what the parable is about, you need to reread it or choose words that fall within some degree of precision to describe what you think it means.

Yeah I thought his interpretation of it was embarrasing to say the least.

[Alpo]

LOL. Love it. Perfect response for any thread on any internet forum.

[andrewlya]

I think it is the Muslims who in present times can marry up to four wives. Most modern day sects of Judaism are monogamous--save a few really old-school groups. In ancient times, however, Jews were allowed to have multiple wives. The Torah even condones it. The New Testament as well says nothing to suggest that marriage is now supposed to be monogamous. One could argue that they didn't have to, since it was already taken for granted due to the fact that the Roman empire only allowed monogamous marriage I believe. But that seems like kind of a speculative argument. Personally, this is another one of the things that the Church teaches which I have trouble accepting because the reasoning seems weak, such as a condemnation against fornication--which, is a later meaning we applied to the word. The original word meant temple prostitution, or the condemnation against homosexuality. Funny how the male g-spot is located in the anus...

Actually, it's in the NT where it says when a man and a woman marry each other they become one flesh, they become one. NT doesn't allow polygamy...

[JamesRottnek]

Polygamy is accepted to some degree in Judaism and a few Sefardic, Mizrahi and Yemenite Jews do practice polygamy. The point is, that Christ has fulfilled the old law and we now have a new faith which has a strong ascetic flavor. Polygamy is not in accordance with Orthodoxy because it is not an ascetic practice, it is very self-centered and goes against what we were taught in the epistles and by Christ. Monogamy is more beautiful because it is a reflection of the love Christ has for the Church, a mutual sharing of love between two.     

I don't think Judaic Halakha law makes arguments against polygamy. If I'm not mistaken, although Rambam was personally against polygamy, he didn't completely forbid it in his teachings. The Hasidic and Haredi sects of the Ashkenazic Orthodox Jews are strongly monogamous from what I understand. Israeli law prohibits it in accordance to Western standards but many Halakhic scholars are trying hard to change this to make it in accordance to Halakha law.

The Talmud, and many Rabbis since, have pointed out - to varying degrees - how it generally doesn't work out too well, but neither have generally prohibited it.  However Rabbeinu Gershom did, around the year 1000, ban polygamy among European Jews, and this has been accepted by the European Jewish community.  As well, the Shulchan Aruch states that "in a place where it is customary to marry only one wife, he is not permitted to take another wife on top of his present wife.″

[Aindriú]

For instance, the prodigal son parable, is symbolic. . . . but it illustrates that with a humble heart and in humility our father will accept us back.

Only have time to snipe lately, but if you think this is what the parable is about, you need to reread it or choose words that fall within some degree of precision to describe what you think it means.

Yeah I thought his interpretation of it was embarrasing to say the least.

Where exactly did he go wrong?

[NicholasMyra]

For instance, the prodigal son parable, is symbolic. . . . but it illustrates that with a humble heart and in humility our father will accept us back.

Only have time to snipe lately, but if you think this is what the parable is about, you need to reread it or choose words that fall within some degree of precision to describe what you think it means.

Yeah I thought his interpretation of it was embarrasing to say the least.

Where exactly did he go wrong?

For one, in the parable, the Father runs to meet the son before the son even displays any humility. In other words, the forgiveness precedes the repentance. Just as God wants to forgive us before we seek his forgiveness.

[JamesRottnek]

For instance, the prodigal son parable, is symbolic. . . . but it illustrates that with a humble heart and in humility our father will accept us back.

Only have time to snipe lately, but if you think this is what the parable is about, you need to reread it or choose words that fall within some degree of precision to describe what you think it means.

Yeah I thought his interpretation of it was embarrasing to say the least.

Where exactly did he go wrong?

For one, in the parable, the Father runs to meet the son before the son even displays any humility. In other words, the forgiveness precedes the repentance. Just as God wants to forgive us before we seek his forgiveness.

Not to mention that the elder brother, who refuses to go to the party for the prodigal, insists the father meets him out in the fields (which, leaving one's own party - I am given to understand - would have been a potential embarrassment).  Then he argues with the father, and without any sign of repentance is still invited into the party.

[Aindriú]

For instance, the prodigal son parable, is symbolic. . . . but it illustrates that with a humble heart and in humility our father will accept us back.

Only have time to snipe lately, but if you think this is what the parable is about, you need to reread it or choose words that fall within some degree of precision to describe what you think it means.

Yeah I thought his interpretation of it was embarrasing to say the least.

Where exactly did he go wrong?

For one, in the parable, the Father runs to meet the son before the son even displays any humility. In other words, the forgiveness precedes the repentance. Just as God wants to forgive us before we seek his forgiveness.

The son was already showing humility in his return, the father, however, wasn't angry and fully accepted him.

This is nitpicky anyways to a sentence long internet post. Stop looking for crap to complain about.

[NicholasMyra]

The son was already showing humility in his return

The father didn't know any of that yet. All he knew was that his son was alive again.

[rakovsky]

Funny how the male g-spot is located in the anus...

I heard most sensitive part is the foreskin, and otherwise the circumcised area. Besides that, in women it's not in the a--s, but elsewhere, and that other place corresponds to male sexual organ.

[rakovsky]

Personally, this is another one of the things that the Church teaches which I have trouble accepting because the reasoning seems weak, such as a condemnation against fornication--which, is a later meaning we applied to the word. The original word meant temple prostitution

The claim that it's a mistranslation isn't strong enough. St Paul says people should get married if their passion for eachother is so strong that they would have sex.

[NicholasMyra]

The original word meant temple prostitution

I find that extremely unlikely. The whole "temple prostitution was all over the ancient world" thing largely comes from Greek polemics/legends about other peoples (see: Herodotus's account of the Babylonians).

A lot of conservative evangelicals love that argument, because it "justifies" certain OT proscriptions. But its supporters are lacking in archaeological and historical support, at least any support they know about themselves.

[rakovsky]

Funny how the male g-spot is located in the anus...

Billions of males the world over have and will live their lives without using this. I can do it too.

[JamesR]

Funny how the male g-spot is located in the anus...

Billions of males the world over have and will live their lives without using this. I can do it too.

Well why did God put it there if we weren't meant to use it? If homosexuality is so unnatural and bad, why does it seem like our bodies were made for it?

Anyhow, the story of the Prodigal Son is one of the most depressing parables ever. I hate it. The worst is how the good son doesn't receive crap in the end, and it makes me feel like I am toiling and wasting away opportunity for pleasure for no good reason at all, if people could indulge in all the pleasure they want right now and just repent at the end and get a big party for it like the prodigal son.

[rakovsky]

Funny how the male g-spot is located in the anus...

Billions of males the world over have and will live their lives without using this. I can do it too.

Well why did God put it there if we weren't meant to use it? If homosexuality is so unnatural and bad, why does it seem like our bodies were made for it?

As to your first question, consider: Why did God give us an appendix and tonsils? Why do we have gills briefly when we are in the womb?

They are vestigial organs that are no longer used. I can point out that in more primitive animals the sexual and waste organs are located in the same cavity. I am not sure there is a theological reason behind vestigial organs. However, it is worth considering the possibility that it does serve some normal purpose- directing the organs to the proper place or heightening normal activity. After all, it is not exactly in the a--s, that is just a way to access the prostate.

As to your second question, consider: If some other things in the world are so unnatural and bad, why does it seem like some bodies are meant to do them? There are a number of unnatural or bad things in the world that animals use organs for.

I had some gerbils and occasionally some of them used their big rhodent teeth to chew on their nails. One of them kept going and chewed on his toes. It must have felt attractive to him somehow because next he chewed them off and moved onto his foot. The gerbil kept going and all it had left was a stump.

Perhaps vestigial organs really still do serve some purpose: the appendix, a former intestine, might contain some chemicals that are helpful for digestion. But that does not mean one should pack it with its former material. The same is true for other cavities.

[Michał Kalina]

How has it switched to another thread about homosexuality?

[sheenj]

Anyhow, the story of the Prodigal Son is one of the most depressing parables ever. I hate it. The worst is how the good son doesn't receive crap in the end, and it makes me feel like I am toiling and wasting away opportunity for pleasure for no good reason at all, if people could indulge in all the pleasure they want right now and just repent at the end and get a big party for it like the prodigal son.

Are you reading the same Gospel of Luke I am?

And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine.

[Papist]

Funny how the male g-spot is located in the anus...

Billions of males the world over have and will live their lives without using this. I can do it too.

Well why did God put it there if we weren't meant to use it? If homosexuality is so unnatural and bad, why does it seem like our bodies were made for it?

Anyhow, the story of the Prodigal Son is one of the most depressing parables ever. I hate it. The worst is how the good son doesn't receive crap in the end, and it makes me feel like I am toiling and wasting away opportunity for pleasure for no good reason at all, if people could indulge in all the pleasure they want right now and just repent at the end and get a big party for it like the prodigal son.

We were not made for it. There is an incredibly high rate of anal cancer among gay men, and this type of sex passes all kinds of bateria and parasites from partner to partner. What is more, because the amount of tear involved in this type of sex, it is a much easier way to contract HIV than regular sex.

[Alpo]

"Jews and their wives" sounds like a some new antisemitist book by Martin Luther.

[JamesRottnek]

How has it switched to another thread about homosexuality?

I was just wondering that myself...

[Schultz]

How has it switched to another thread about homosexuality?

Because JamesR needs to complain about something in every thread and complaining about homosexuality (or lack thereof) is as good a thing as any.

[rakovsky]

How has it switched to another thread about homosexuality?

The New Testament says nothing to suggest that marriage is now supposed to be monogamous. Personally, this is another one of the things that the Church teaches which I have trouble accepting because the reasoning seems weak, such as... the condemnation against homosexuality.

[JamesR]

"Jews and their wives" sounds like a some new antisemitist book by Martin Luther.

Whatchu talkin' bout?

Martin Luther loved Jews; that's why he had such a fetish for that Masoretic text bro.

[Punch]

For instance, the prodigal son parable, is symbolic. . . . but it illustrates that with a humble heart and in humility our father will accept us back.

Only have time to snipe lately, but if you think this is what the parable is about, you need to reread it or choose words that fall within some degree of precision to describe what you think it means.

Yeah I thought his interpretation of it was embarrasing to say the least.

Where exactly did he go wrong?

For one, in the parable, the Father runs to meet the son before the son even displays any humility. In other words, the forgiveness precedes the repentance. Just as God wants to forgive us before we seek his forgiveness.

Really?  Just coming back was a sign of humility - or humiliation.

[Punch]

The son was already showing humility in his return

The father didn't know any of that yet. All he knew was that his son was alive again.

That is a stretch.

[William]

How is it that the religion that came up with the soul mate idea allows polygamy?

[NicholasMyra]

The son was already showing humility in his return

The father didn't know any of that yet. All he knew was that his son was alive again.

That is a stretch.

How?

"But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and felt compassion for him, and ran and embraced him and kissed him."

[NicholasMyra]

How is it that the religion that came up with the soul mate idea allows polygamy?

soul mate is not a Christian idea IMO.

[JamesRottnek]

How is it that the religion that came up with the soul mate idea allows polygamy?

soul mate is not a Christian idea IMO.

It is a Jewish idea though.

But some prominent rabbis have expressed the viewpoint that polygamy is allowed by the Torah not because it is good, but simply because it is a recognition of the fact that a man could impregnate two women, one right after another, whereas a woman could not become pregnant by two men at once.

[Punch]

How is it that the religion that came up with the soul mate idea allows polygamy?

soul mate is not a Christian idea IMO.

It is a Jewish idea though.

But some prominent rabbis have expressed the viewpoint that polygamy is allowed by the Torah not because it is good, but simply because it is a recognition of the fact that a man could impregnate two women, one right after another, whereas a woman could not become pregnant by two men at once.

It has happened.

[yeshuaisiam]

Funny how the male g-spot is located in the anus...

Billions of males the world over have and will live their lives without using this. I can do it too.

Well why did God put it there if we weren't meant to use it? If homosexuality is so unnatural and bad, why does it seem like our bodies were made for it?

Anyhow, the story of the Prodigal Son is one of the most depressing parables ever. I hate it. The worst is how the good son doesn't receive crap in the end, and it makes me feel like I am toiling and wasting away opportunity for pleasure for no good reason at all, if people could indulge in all the pleasure they want right now and just repent at the end and get a big party for it like the prodigal son.

James, actually this isn't true.
28 “The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him. 29 But he answered his father, ‘Look! All these years I’ve been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. 30 But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!’

31 “‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. 32 But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’”


"you are always with me, and everything I have is yours".   This is incredibly powerful, but the older son was just blind to it.

The prodigal son repented, thus cause of celebration.  The older son has "everything".

[NicholasMyra]

How is it that the religion that came up with the soul mate idea allows polygamy?

soul mate is not a Christian idea IMO.

It is a Jewish idea though.

Where is it found?

[JamesRottnek]

How is it that the religion that came up with the soul mate idea allows polygamy?

soul mate is not a Christian idea IMO.

It is a Jewish idea though.

Where is it found?

Genesis Rabbah 68 declares that heaven appoints a man's wife.  Then in the Babylonian Talmud, in tractate Sotah 2a, we find the following: Rabbah b. Bar Hanah said in the name of R. Johanan: It is as difficult to pair them as was
the division of the Red Sea; as it is said: God
setteth the solitary in families: He bringeth
out the prisoners into prosperity!  But it is
not so; for Rab Judah has said in the name of
Rab: Forty days before the creation of a
child, a Bath Kol (a heavenly voice proclaiming the judgment or will of God) issues forth and proclaims,
The daughter of A is for B; the house of C is
for D; the field of E is for F! — There is no
contradiction, the latter dictum referring to a
first marriage and the former to a second
marriage. (Taken from the Soncino Babylonian Talmud)

There are also other tractates from the Babylonian Talmud (I'm not sure if there are any mentioning it in the Jerusalem Talmud, nor where one might find more discussion of the idea in later Rabbinic works) that mention the idea of a soul mate, but I don't recall them off the top of my head.

[NicholasMyra]

That seems to refer to marriages that would occur as part of the larger economy of God, rather than the idea two people are created with some sort of soul connection, as is believed in popular american mythology when "soulmate" is used.

[Marc1152]

Hi,
Ive heard/read that the Jews can marry up to 4 wives providing they can financially maintain them all.However, I believe this has now been abolished to be in line with "the modern world". I wanted to know, Is polygamy allowed according to the Jewish Law?If this is the case, then this was changed in the New Testament, is this right?

There is no concept of Purgatory in Judaism so that makes no sense...

[William]

Hi,
Ive heard/read that the Jews can marry up to 4 wives providing they can financially maintain them all.However, I believe this has now been abolished to be in line with "the modern world". I wanted to know, Is polygamy allowed according to the Jewish Law?If this is the case, then this was changed in the New Testament, is this right?

There is no concept of Purgatory in Judaism so that makes no sense...

I have seen numerous Jews describe their view on temporal hell as essentially being equivalent to purgatory.

[JamesR]

Hi,
Ive heard/read that the Jews can marry up to 4 wives providing they can financially maintain them all.However, I believe this has now been abolished to be in line with "the modern world". I wanted to know, Is polygamy allowed according to the Jewish Law?If this is the case, then this was changed in the New Testament, is this right?

There is no concept of Purgatory in Judaism so that makes no sense...

I have seen numerous Jews describe their view on temporal hell as essentially being equivalent to purgatory.

I've also met Jews who think it's okay to eat pork and Orthodox Christians who think that Jesus was a Greek and Odysseus was a prophet; don't base everything off of anecdotal evidence.

[William]

Hi,
Ive heard/read that the Jews can marry up to 4 wives providing they can financially maintain them all.However, I believe this has now been abolished to be in line with "the modern world". I wanted to know, Is polygamy allowed according to the Jewish Law?If this is the case, then this was changed in the New Testament, is this right?

There is no concept of Purgatory in Judaism so that makes no sense...

I have seen numerous Jews describe their view on temporal hell as essentially being equivalent to purgatory.

I've also met Jews who think it's okay to eat pork and Orthodox Christians who think that Jesus was a Greek and Odysseus was a prophet; don't base everything off of anecdotal evidence.

Okay, I'll just wait for JamesRottnek to quote some rabbi about how Jewish hell is temporal.

[Marc1152]

Hi,
Ive heard/read that the Jews can marry up to 4 wives providing they can financially maintain them all.However, I believe this has now been abolished to be in line with "the modern world". I wanted to know, Is polygamy allowed according to the Jewish Law?If this is the case, then this was changed in the New Testament, is this right?

There is no concept of Purgatory in Judaism so that makes no sense...

I have seen numerous Jews describe their view on temporal hell as essentially being equivalent to purgatory.

is joking.. You missed it

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