Topic: Is Christianity Unnatural?

[orthonorm]

But the secular psychologists only look at individual persons, not their relationships with others.  We become so individualistic.

The obvious error of the first sentence nearly caused me to stop reading, but I am glad I didn't, cause your second sentence gave me a chuckle.

How can we "so individualistic" without recourse to the notion of being in relation?

Individuals relate. Persons commune.

Thank you for your correction, I am humbled by your intellectual superiority.

Don't worry, he will give you many opportunities to thank him. It must be difficult form him to live in a world where everyone else is so far beneath him.

Believe it or not, you nor choy are representative of most of the folks I encounter in the world. It is sorta a bit of hubris to think that the lazy thinking you two engage in is the measure of the rest of our fellow men. Well it is a measure, I suppose, one that is surpassed.

[Hiwot]

James, for the last time, later hominids are not harem-based.

hahahaha! oh gosh, this killed me.

[Hiwot]

If I am involved in it, it is probably unnatural on some level.

hahaha, punch good one!

[Papist]

But the secular psychologists only look at individual persons, not their relationships with others.  We become so individualistic.

The obvious error of the first sentence nearly caused me to stop reading, but I am glad I didn't, cause your second sentence gave me a chuckle.

How can we "so individualistic" without recourse to the notion of being in relation?

Individuals relate. Persons commune.

Thank you for your correction, I am humbled by your intellectual superiority.

Don't worry, he will give you many opportunities to thank him. It must be difficult form him to live in a world where everyone else is so far beneath him.

Believe it or not, you nor choy are representative of most of the folks I encounter in the world. It is sorta a bit of hubris to think that the lazy thinking you two engage in is the measure of the rest of our fellow men. Well it is a measure, I suppose, one that is surpassed.

Q.E.D

[Punch]

Gee, which two people in the world have you encountered?  Papist and Choy are intellectual giants compared to most of the people that I have to deal with, and I work in a Nuclear Power Plant. 

But the secular psychologists only look at individual persons, not their relationships with others.  We become so individualistic.

The obvious error of the first sentence nearly caused me to stop reading, but I am glad I didn't, cause your second sentence gave me a chuckle.

How can we "so individualistic" without recourse to the notion of being in relation?

Individuals relate. Persons commune.

Thank you for your correction, I am humbled by your intellectual superiority.

Don't worry, he will give you many opportunities to thank him. It must be difficult form him to live in a world where everyone else is so far beneath him.

Believe it or not, you nor choy are representative of most of the folks I encounter in the world. It is sorta a bit of hubris to think that the lazy thinking you two engage in is the measure of the rest of our fellow men. Well it is a measure, I suppose, one that is surpassed.

[Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)]

If humans were created in the image of God, then how come the life of the Church is so unnatural for our bodies?

James--You are too intelligent to ask a question like this. If God created us to be as we have been and are, there would not have been the need for Him to set some standards for humanity through His chosen people and, when that did not work, to send His Son so that we can have an example, a leaders than we can follow out of our "natural" state. Here I am using the word "natural" as a description only.

[OrthoNoob]

Orthonorm's schtick is tiresome and not terribly convincing.

Gee, which two people in the world have you encountered?  Papist and Choy are intellectual giants compared to most of the people that I have to deal with, and I work in a Nuclear Power Plant. 

But the secular psychologists only look at individual persons, not their relationships with others.  We become so individualistic.

The obvious error of the first sentence nearly caused me to stop reading, but I am glad I didn't, cause your second sentence gave me a chuckle.

How can we "so individualistic" without recourse to the notion of being in relation?

Individuals relate. Persons commune.

Thank you for your correction, I am humbled by your intellectual superiority.

Don't worry, he will give you many opportunities to thank him. It must be difficult form him to live in a world where everyone else is so far beneath him.

Believe it or not, you nor choy are representative of most of the folks I encounter in the world. It is sorta a bit of hubris to think that the lazy thinking you two engage in is the measure of the rest of our fellow men. Well it is a measure, I suppose, one that is surpassed.

[biro]

It is not easy to resist temptation. We have many helps. This is in fact why the church asks so much of us. It's like spiritual push-ups. Prayer and fasting are hard when you start out. The first few days of the fast, I can't think of anything but sandwiches. And I want to punch somebody. But the days go on, and in the second week or so, I start to relax. Not a big deal. "Okay, I'll have noodles and salad tonight... I think I'll read for a while, maybe see if there's Vespers at church..." That kind of thing. Keep trying. If you quit, you'll be worse for wear but if you keep going, you can retain something of value spiritually.

[J Michael]

  \/ This.

Orthonorm's schtick is tiresome and not terribly convincing.

Gee, which two people in the world have you encountered?  Papist and Choy are intellectual giants compared to most of the people that I have to deal with, and I work in a Nuclear Power Plant.  

But the secular psychologists only look at individual persons, not their relationships with others.  We become so individualistic.

The obvious error of the first sentence nearly caused me to stop reading, but I am glad I didn't, cause your second sentence gave me a chuckle.

How can we "so individualistic" without recourse to the notion of being in relation?

Individuals relate. Persons commune.

Thank you for your correction, I am humbled by your intellectual superiority.

Don't worry, he will give you many opportunities to thank him. It must be difficult form him to live in a world where everyone else is so far beneath him.

Believe it or not, you nor choy are representative of most of the folks I encounter in the world. It is sorta a bit of hubris to think that the lazy thinking you two engage in is the measure of the rest of our fellow men. Well it is a measure, I suppose, one that is surpassed.

[JamesR]

It is not easy to resist temptation. We have many helps. This is in fact why the church asks so much of us. It's like spiritual push-ups. Prayer and fasting are hard when you start out. The first few days of the fast, I can't think of anything but sandwiches. And I want to punch somebody. But the days go on, and in the second week or so, I start to relax. Not a big deal. "Okay, I'll have noodles and salad tonight... I think I'll read for a while, maybe see if there's Vespers at church..." That kind of thing. Keep trying. If you quit, you'll be worse for wear but if you keep going, you can retain something of value spiritually.

Wow that was surprisingly helpful!--thanks Biro!

[biro]

You're welcome. I've gotten mad at some of your posts... sorry... I know you're growing up, and I should try to remember it isn't always a walk in the park. Good luck.

[JamesR]

Well, I was thinking about this more last night, and I had some thoughts. First, maybe the reason treatment feels so unnatural to us is simply because we're not used to it and are so accustomed to living sinfully. Kind of like when trying to give up an addiction or bad habit, you feel troubled, discomfort and miserable at first, because you are readjusting your body back to functioning the way it was meant to function, without the bad habit holding it down. Maybe God's treatment is somewhat similar; the discomfort we feel when trying to return back to our natural state and give up something bad. Then that brings up another thought; I think that there is an important distinction that needs to be made between "suffering" and "evil." The two--while oftentimes synonomous--aren't exactly the same. Evilness is death and sin--and everything related to those. Suffering is merely a matter of perspective--how we perceive something. For the Christian, we initially experience suffering as we grow closer to God and leave our wickedness behind, but usually, after we grow closer, our suffering ends, as our selfish will is obliterated, and we become unaffected by the world, and see every evil event that arises as an opportunity to glorify God.

[Romaios]

Well, I was thinking about this more last night, and I had some thoughts. First, maybe the reason treatment feels so unnatural to us is simply because we're not used to it and are so accustomed to living sinfully. Kind of like when trying to give up an addiction or bad habit, you feel troubled, discomfort and miserable at first, because you are readjusting your body back to functioning the way it was meant to function, without the bad habit holding it down. Maybe God's treatment is somewhat similar; the discomfort we feel when trying to return back to our natural state and give up something bad. Then that brings up another thought; I think that there is an important distinction that needs to be made between "suffering" and "evil." The two--while oftentimes synonymous--aren't exactly the same. Evilness is death and sin--and everything related to those. Suffering is merely a matter of perspective--how we perceive something. For the Christian, we initially experience suffering as we grow closer to God and leave our wickedness behind, but usually, after we grow closer, our suffering ends, as our selfish will is obliterated, and we become unaffected by the world, and see every evil event that arises as an opportunity to glorify God.

I think you're on to something, James. 

Only suffering doesn't ever end down here for Saints either - it probably becomes easier to bear.

[yeshuaisiam]

Well, I was thinking about this more last night, and I had some thoughts. First, maybe the reason treatment feels so unnatural to us is simply because we're not used to it and are so accustomed to living sinfully. Kind of like when trying to give up an addiction or bad habit, you feel troubled, discomfort and miserable at first, because you are readjusting your body back to functioning the way it was meant to function, without the bad habit holding it down. Maybe God's treatment is somewhat similar; the discomfort we feel when trying to return back to our natural state and give up something bad. Then that brings up another thought; I think that there is an important distinction that needs to be made between "suffering" and "evil." The two--while oftentimes synonomous--aren't exactly the same. Evilness is death and sin--and everything related to those. Suffering is merely a matter of perspective--how we perceive something. For the Christian, we initially experience suffering as we grow closer to God and leave our wickedness behind, but usually, after we grow closer, our suffering ends, as our selfish will is obliterated, and we become unaffected by the world, and see every evil event that arises as an opportunity to glorify God.

James, so you know it is not always this way though.

Consider when you follow God's commands when observing the way he created us, the "natural state" becomes a state of reward.

Many men for instance believe that "our carnal sinful desires" are to go out and have physical relations with as many women as possible.  But I don't agree that it is a "carnal sinful desire"....  I believe it is the inability of some people to recognize the consequences of their actions. In this case, it would lead to emptyness, fatherless children, abortions, jealousy, and without stability.   When we follow the commands of God and are married and have physical relations with a wife through love we gain the blessing of children, could not think of abortion, are fulfilled and closer, embrace further love, wholesomeness instead of jealousy, and with stability.

I do not believe suffering always occurs when we embrace God.   God even died for your sins in love, and was feeling love for you even while carrying his cross.   Through some suffering is love, through some sacrifice is love and wholesomeness, and ALSO through good things comes more good things.