OrthodoxChristianity.net
November 28, 2014, 08:26:44 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Is Christianity Unnatural?  (Read 1200 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
orthonorm
Warned
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Sola Gratia
Jurisdiction: Outside
Posts: 16,628



« Reply #45 on: March 01, 2013, 02:20:48 PM »

But the secular psychologists only look at individual persons, not their relationships with others.  We become so individualistic.

The obvious error of the first sentence nearly caused me to stop reading, but I am glad I didn't, cause your second sentence gave me a chuckle.

How can we "so individualistic" without recourse to the notion of being in relation?

Individuals relate. Persons commune.

Thank you for your correction, I am humbled by your intellectual superiority.
Don't worry, he will give you many opportunities to thank him. It must be difficult form him to live in a world where everyone else is so far beneath him.

Believe it or not, you nor choy are representative of most of the folks I encounter in the world. It is sorta a bit of hubris to think that the lazy thinking you two engage in is the measure of the rest of our fellow men. Well it is a measure, I suppose, one that is surpassed.
Logged

Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.
Hiwot
Christ is Risen!
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church
Posts: 1,959


Job 19:25-27


« Reply #46 on: March 01, 2013, 02:40:06 PM »

James, for the last time, later hominids are not harem-based.

hahahaha! oh gosh, this killed me.
Logged

To God be the Glory in all things! Amen!

Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.
Hiwot
Christ is Risen!
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church
Posts: 1,959


Job 19:25-27


« Reply #47 on: March 01, 2013, 02:42:26 PM »

If I am involved in it, it is probably unnatural on some level.

hahaha, punch good one!
Logged

To God be the Glory in all things! Amen!

Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 12,365


Praying for the Christians in Iraq


« Reply #48 on: March 01, 2013, 03:03:23 PM »

But the secular psychologists only look at individual persons, not their relationships with others.  We become so individualistic.

The obvious error of the first sentence nearly caused me to stop reading, but I am glad I didn't, cause your second sentence gave me a chuckle.

How can we "so individualistic" without recourse to the notion of being in relation?

Individuals relate. Persons commune.

Thank you for your correction, I am humbled by your intellectual superiority.
Don't worry, he will give you many opportunities to thank him. It must be difficult form him to live in a world where everyone else is so far beneath him.

Believe it or not, you nor choy are representative of most of the folks I encounter in the world. It is sorta a bit of hubris to think that the lazy thinking you two engage in is the measure of the rest of our fellow men. Well it is a measure, I suppose, one that is surpassed.
Q.E.D
Logged

You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.
Punch
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: Body of Christ
Posts: 5,766



« Reply #49 on: March 01, 2013, 04:29:12 PM »

Gee, which two people in the world have you encountered?  Papist and Choy are intellectual giants compared to most of the people that I have to deal with, and I work in a Nuclear Power Plant. 

But the secular psychologists only look at individual persons, not their relationships with others.  We become so individualistic.

The obvious error of the first sentence nearly caused me to stop reading, but I am glad I didn't, cause your second sentence gave me a chuckle.

How can we "so individualistic" without recourse to the notion of being in relation?

Individuals relate. Persons commune.

Thank you for your correction, I am humbled by your intellectual superiority.
Don't worry, he will give you many opportunities to thank him. It must be difficult form him to live in a world where everyone else is so far beneath him.

Believe it or not, you nor choy are representative of most of the folks I encounter in the world. It is sorta a bit of hubris to think that the lazy thinking you two engage in is the measure of the rest of our fellow men. Well it is a measure, I suppose, one that is surpassed.
Logged

I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,933



« Reply #50 on: March 01, 2013, 04:33:43 PM »

If humans were created in the image of God, then how come the life of the Church is so unnatural for our bodies?

James--You are too intelligent to ask a question like this. If God created us to be as we have been and are, there would not have been the need for Him to set some standards for humanity through His chosen people and, when that did not work, to send His Son so that we can have an example, a leaders than we can follow out of our "natural" state. Here I am using the word "natural" as a description only.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2013, 04:34:12 PM by Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) » Logged

Michal: "SC, love you in this thread."
OrthoNoob
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,057



« Reply #51 on: March 01, 2013, 05:09:34 PM »

Orthonorm's schtick is tiresome and not terribly convincing.

Gee, which two people in the world have you encountered?  Papist and Choy are intellectual giants compared to most of the people that I have to deal with, and I work in a Nuclear Power Plant. 

But the secular psychologists only look at individual persons, not their relationships with others.  We become so individualistic.

The obvious error of the first sentence nearly caused me to stop reading, but I am glad I didn't, cause your second sentence gave me a chuckle.

How can we "so individualistic" without recourse to the notion of being in relation?

Individuals relate. Persons commune.

Thank you for your correction, I am humbled by your intellectual superiority.
Don't worry, he will give you many opportunities to thank him. It must be difficult form him to live in a world where everyone else is so far beneath him.

Believe it or not, you nor choy are representative of most of the folks I encounter in the world. It is sorta a bit of hubris to think that the lazy thinking you two engage in is the measure of the rest of our fellow men. Well it is a measure, I suppose, one that is surpassed.
Logged

http://avengingredhand.wordpress.com -- My blog

'These words I, Leo, have set down for love and as a safeguard of the Orthodox Faith'
biro
Excelsior
Site Supporter
Warned
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox
Posts: 14,451


fleem
WWW
« Reply #52 on: March 01, 2013, 05:19:39 PM »

It is not easy to resist temptation. We have many helps. This is in fact why the church asks so much of us. It's like spiritual push-ups. Prayer and fasting are hard when you start out. The first few days of the fast, I can't think of anything but sandwiches. And I want to punch somebody. But the days go on, and in the second week or so, I start to relax. Not a big deal. "Okay, I'll have noodles and salad tonight... I think I'll read for a while, maybe see if there's Vespers at church..." That kind of thing. Keep trying. If you quit, you'll be worse for wear but if you keep going, you can retain something of value spiritually.
Logged

Charlie Rose: "If you could change one thing about the world, what would it be?"

Fran Lebowitz: "Everything. There is not one thing with which I am satisified."

spcasuncoast.org
J Michael
Older than dirt; dumber than a box of rocks; colossally ignorant; a little crazy ;-)
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 10,240


Lord, have mercy! I live under a rock. Alleluia!


« Reply #53 on: March 01, 2013, 05:35:02 PM »

  \/ This.

Orthonorm's schtick is tiresome and not terribly convincing.

Gee, which two people in the world have you encountered?  Papist and Choy are intellectual giants compared to most of the people that I have to deal with, and I work in a Nuclear Power Plant.  

But the secular psychologists only look at individual persons, not their relationships with others.  We become so individualistic.

The obvious error of the first sentence nearly caused me to stop reading, but I am glad I didn't, cause your second sentence gave me a chuckle.

How can we "so individualistic" without recourse to the notion of being in relation?

Individuals relate. Persons commune.

Thank you for your correction, I am humbled by your intellectual superiority.
Don't worry, he will give you many opportunities to thank him. It must be difficult form him to live in a world where everyone else is so far beneath him.

Believe it or not, you nor choy are representative of most of the folks I encounter in the world. It is sorta a bit of hubris to think that the lazy thinking you two engage in is the measure of the rest of our fellow men. Well it is a measure, I suppose, one that is surpassed.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2013, 05:35:54 PM by J Michael » Logged

"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)
JamesR
Virginal Chicano Blood
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox (but doubtful)
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church *of* America
Posts: 5,897


St. Augustine of Hippo pray for me!


« Reply #54 on: March 01, 2013, 05:35:21 PM »

It is not easy to resist temptation. We have many helps. This is in fact why the church asks so much of us. It's like spiritual push-ups. Prayer and fasting are hard when you start out. The first few days of the fast, I can't think of anything but sandwiches. And I want to punch somebody. But the days go on, and in the second week or so, I start to relax. Not a big deal. "Okay, I'll have noodles and salad tonight... I think I'll read for a while, maybe see if there's Vespers at church..." That kind of thing. Keep trying. If you quit, you'll be worse for wear but if you keep going, you can retain something of value spiritually.

Wow that was surprisingly helpful!--thanks Biro!
Logged

Quote
You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
Quote
James, you have problemz.
biro
Excelsior
Site Supporter
Warned
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox
Posts: 14,451


fleem
WWW
« Reply #55 on: March 01, 2013, 05:37:21 PM »

You're welcome. I've gotten mad at some of your posts... sorry... I know you're growing up, and I should try to remember it isn't always a walk in the park. Good luck.
Logged

Charlie Rose: "If you could change one thing about the world, what would it be?"

Fran Lebowitz: "Everything. There is not one thing with which I am satisified."

spcasuncoast.org
JamesR
Virginal Chicano Blood
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox (but doubtful)
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church *of* America
Posts: 5,897


St. Augustine of Hippo pray for me!


« Reply #56 on: March 01, 2013, 05:47:24 PM »

Well, I was thinking about this more last night, and I had some thoughts. First, maybe the reason treatment feels so unnatural to us is simply because we're not used to it and are so accustomed to living sinfully. Kind of like when trying to give up an addiction or bad habit, you feel troubled, discomfort and miserable at first, because you are readjusting your body back to functioning the way it was meant to function, without the bad habit holding it down. Maybe God's treatment is somewhat similar; the discomfort we feel when trying to return back to our natural state and give up something bad. Then that brings up another thought; I think that there is an important distinction that needs to be made between "suffering" and "evil." The two--while oftentimes synonomous--aren't exactly the same. Evilness is death and sin--and everything related to those. Suffering is merely a matter of perspective--how we perceive something. For the Christian, we initially experience suffering as we grow closer to God and leave our wickedness behind, but usually, after we grow closer, our suffering ends, as our selfish will is obliterated, and we become unaffected by the world, and see every evil event that arises as an opportunity to glorify God.
Logged

Quote
You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
Quote
James, you have problemz.
Romaios
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Romanian
Posts: 2,933



« Reply #57 on: March 01, 2013, 06:49:01 PM »

Well, I was thinking about this more last night, and I had some thoughts. First, maybe the reason treatment feels so unnatural to us is simply because we're not used to it and are so accustomed to living sinfully. Kind of like when trying to give up an addiction or bad habit, you feel troubled, discomfort and miserable at first, because you are readjusting your body back to functioning the way it was meant to function, without the bad habit holding it down. Maybe God's treatment is somewhat similar; the discomfort we feel when trying to return back to our natural state and give up something bad. Then that brings up another thought; I think that there is an important distinction that needs to be made between "suffering" and "evil." The two--while oftentimes synonymous--aren't exactly the same. Evilness is death and sin--and everything related to those. Suffering is merely a matter of perspective--how we perceive something. For the Christian, we initially experience suffering as we grow closer to God and leave our wickedness behind, but usually, after we grow closer, our suffering ends, as our selfish will is obliterated, and we become unaffected by the world, and see every evil event that arises as an opportunity to glorify God.

I think you're on to something, James.  Smiley

Only suffering doesn't ever end down here for Saints either - it probably becomes easier to bear.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2013, 06:49:34 PM by Romaios » Logged
yeshuaisiam
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox, Anabaptist, Other Early Christianity kind of jumbled together
Posts: 4,416


A pulling horse cannot kick.


« Reply #58 on: March 02, 2013, 12:26:28 AM »

Well, I was thinking about this more last night, and I had some thoughts. First, maybe the reason treatment feels so unnatural to us is simply because we're not used to it and are so accustomed to living sinfully. Kind of like when trying to give up an addiction or bad habit, you feel troubled, discomfort and miserable at first, because you are readjusting your body back to functioning the way it was meant to function, without the bad habit holding it down. Maybe God's treatment is somewhat similar; the discomfort we feel when trying to return back to our natural state and give up something bad. Then that brings up another thought; I think that there is an important distinction that needs to be made between "suffering" and "evil." The two--while oftentimes synonomous--aren't exactly the same. Evilness is death and sin--and everything related to those. Suffering is merely a matter of perspective--how we perceive something. For the Christian, we initially experience suffering as we grow closer to God and leave our wickedness behind, but usually, after we grow closer, our suffering ends, as our selfish will is obliterated, and we become unaffected by the world, and see every evil event that arises as an opportunity to glorify God.

James, so you know it is not always this way though.

Consider when you follow God's commands when observing the way he created us, the "natural state" becomes a state of reward.

Many men for instance believe that "our carnal sinful desires" are to go out and have physical relations with as many women as possible.  But I don't agree that it is a "carnal sinful desire"....  I believe it is the inability of some people to recognize the consequences of their actions. In this case, it would lead to emptyness, fatherless children, abortions, jealousy, and without stability.   When we follow the commands of God and are married and have physical relations with a wife through love we gain the blessing of children, could not think of abortion, are fulfilled and closer, embrace further love, wholesomeness instead of jealousy, and with stability.

I do not believe suffering always occurs when we embrace God.   God even died for your sins in love, and was feeling love for you even while carrying his cross.   Through some suffering is love, through some sacrifice is love and wholesomeness, and ALSO through good things comes more good things.

Logged

I learned how to be more frugal and save money at http://www.livingpress.com
Tags:
Pages: « 1 2  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.08 seconds with 41 queries.