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Author Topic: I Don't Get Poetry  (Read 1503 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #45 on: February 21, 2013, 02:50:13 PM »

Here I sit in noxious vapour,
Someone's used up all the paper.
Late to class, I cannot linger,
Watch out *** here comes my finger.
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« Reply #46 on: February 21, 2013, 03:03:59 PM »

hahaha vamrat, you naughty boy! go sit on the corner!
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« Reply #47 on: February 21, 2013, 03:28:53 PM »

I think you might enjoy the postwar (WWI, that is) moderns, though -- they often echo themes that your posts here follow.

Can you recommend me a few?

There's always Earl Sweatshirt and Eminem, who are quite good with assonance and consonance, creating many an internal rhyme in any of their raps (which is simply another name for spoken poetry). 

And of course, to continue with the idea of the song as poem, there's essentially every song Leonard Cohen has ever written (which makes sense, since Cohen began his career as a poet, and only switched to song-writing when he realized he could make significantly more money). 

An example of a good poem-song by Cohen is Who By Fire:

And who by fire, who by water,
Who in the sunshine, who in the night time,
Who by high ordeal, who by common trial,
Who in your merry merry month of may,
Who by very slow decay,
And who shall I say is calling?

And who in her lonely slip, who by barbiturate,
Who in these realms of love, who by something blunt,
And who by avalanche, who by powder,
Who for his greed, who for his hunger,
And who shall I say is calling?

And who by brave assent, who by accident,
Who in solitude, who in this mirror,
Who by his lady's command, who by his own hand,
Who in mortal chains, who in power,
And who shall I say is calling?

Another is Cohen's Everybody Knows:

Everybody knows that the dice are loaded
Everybody rolls with their fingers crossed
Everybody knows that the war is over
Everybody knows the good guys lost
Everybody knows the fight was fixed
The poor stay poor, the rich get rich
That's how it goes
Everybody knows
Everybody knows that the boat is leaking
Everybody knows that the captain lied
Everybody got this broken feeling
Like their father or their dog just died

Everybody talking to their pockets
Everybody wants a box of chocolates
And a long stem rose
Everybody knows

Everybody knows that you love me baby
Everybody knows that you really do
Everybody knows that you've been faithful
Ah give or take a night or two
Everybody knows you've been discreet
But there were so many people you just had to meet
Without your clothes
And everybody knows

Everybody knows, everybody knows
That's how it goes
Everybody knows

Everybody knows, everybody knows
That's how it goes
Everybody knows

And everybody knows that it's now or never
Everybody knows that it's me or you
And everybody knows that you live forever
Ah when you've done a line or two
Everybody knows the deal is rotten
Old Black Joe's still pickin' cotton
For your ribbons and bows
And everybody knows

And everybody knows that the Plague is coming
Everybody knows that it's moving fast
Everybody knows that the naked man and woman
Are just a shining artifact of the past
Everybody knows the scene is dead
But there's gonna be a meter on your bed
That will disclose
What everybody knows

And everybody knows that you're in trouble
Everybody knows what you've been through
From the bloody cross on top of Calvary
To the beach of Malibu
Everybody knows it's coming apart
Take one last look at this Sacred Heart
Before it blows
And everybody knows

Everybody knows, everybody knows
That's how it goes
Everybody knows

Oh everybody knows, everybody knows
That's how it goes
Everybody knows

Everybody knows
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« Reply #48 on: February 21, 2013, 03:41:49 PM »

I wish I could post my poetry, but it's all in Dutch. But hey, I'll just share one of my poems with a translation. Much is lost in translation though, as with all poetry.

The rhyme scheme is a-a-b-b-c-c; a-a-b-b-c-c; a-a

Artemidorus                                                                     Artemidorus

Als Artemidorus je een brief aanrijkt,                                    If Artemidorus gives you a letter
je diep in de ogen kijkt                                                        looks into your eyes
en zegt: “lees het snel”                                                       and says: "Read this quickly"
doe dat wel.                                                                       do it.
Al wat belangrijk lijkt,                                                         All what seems important
senaatvergadering, theaterspel,                                           Senate meetings, theater plays

beloftes van een kroon,                                                      promises of a crown
een vergulde koningstroon                                                  a gilded, kingly throne
zal wachten moeten.                                                          shall have to wait
En al wie je begroeten,                                                       and all who greet you,
diplomaten of senatoren,                                                    diplomats or senator
ook aan hen moet je je niet storen                                      you shouldn't be bothered by them either.

Lees veel liever gauw,                                                       You should much rather read
wat die Artemidorus je schrijven wou.                                what that Artemidorus wanted to write you.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 03:43:46 PM by Cyrillic » Logged

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« Reply #49 on: February 21, 2013, 03:45:58 PM »

I wish I could post my poetry, but it's all in Dutch. But hey, I'll just share one of my poems with a translation. Much is lost in translation though, as with all poetry.

The rhyme scheme is a-a-b-b-c-c; a-a-b-b-c-c; a-a

Artemidorus                                                                     Artemidorus

Als Artemidorus je een brief aanrijkt,                                    If Artemidorus gives you a letter
je diep in de ogen kijkt                                                        looks into your eyes
en zegt: “lees het snel”                                                       and says: "Read this quickly"
doe dat wel.                                                                       do it.
Al wat belangrijk lijkt,                                                         All what seems important
senaatvergadering, theaterspel,                                           Senate meetings, theater plays

beloftes van een kroon,                                                      promises of a crown
een vergulde koningstroon                                                  a gilded, kingly throne
zal wachten moeten.                                                          shall have to wait
En al wie je begroeten,                                                       and all who greet you,
diplomaten of senatoren,                                                    diplomats or senator
ook aan hen moet je je niet storen                                      you shouldn't be bothered by them either.

Lees veel liever gauw,                                                       You should much rather read
wat die Artemidorus je schrijven wou.                                what that Artemidorus wanted to write you.


Dear God, you composed this?  If much is lost in the translation, the power of the original is frightening to consider.
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« Reply #50 on: February 21, 2013, 03:48:16 PM »


Dear God, you composed this?  If much is lost in the translation, the power of the original is frightening to consider.

Yes. I sometimes write some poetry when I'm bored.
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« Reply #51 on: February 21, 2013, 03:51:29 PM »

Here I sit in noxious vapour,
Someone's used up all the paper.
Late to class, I cannot linger,
Watch out *** here comes my finger.

Ahh...back to fundamentals, I see.

Quote
fundamental (adj.) Look up fundamental at Dictionary.com
    mid-15c., "primary, original, pertaining to a foundation," modeled on Late Latin fundamentalis "of the foundation," from Latin fundamentum "foundation" (see fundament). Fundamentals "primary principles or rules" of anything is from 1630s.

fundament (n.) Look up fundament at Dictionary.com
    late 13c., "buttocks, anus," from Old French fondement "foundation, bottom; anus" (12c.), from Latin fundamentum "a foundation," from fundare "to found" (see bottom). So called because it is where one sits.
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=fundament&allowed_in_frame=0

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« Reply #52 on: February 21, 2013, 03:53:30 PM »

I'm sort of with you on this James. I make some lame attempts at poetry myself, but usually I try to keep it short and simple. I can relate to your frustration with poetic literature. Why does somebody write an entire novel in poetic verse? Just write the story man! I find a lot of the "classic" poetry tedious to read and hard to understand. And who the heck really knows what good poetry is? It seems quite a subjective taste to me. Personally, I think a lot of the greatest poets are song writers. They are able to convey some profound things in a three minute song. That's a gift right there!

Just my two cents.



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« Reply #53 on: February 21, 2013, 04:09:46 PM »

I'm sort of with you on this James. I make some lame attempts at poetry myself, but usually I try to keep it short and simple. I can relate to your frustration with poetic literature. Why does somebody write an entire novel in poetic verse? Just write the story man! I find a lot of the "classic" poetry tedious to read and hard to understand. And who the heck really knows what good poetry is? It seems quite a subjective taste to me. Personally, I think a lot of the greatest poets are song writers. They are able to convey some profound things in a three minute song. That's a gift right there!

Just my two cents.



Selam

"Good" anything is subjective.
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« Reply #54 on: February 21, 2013, 04:19:38 PM »

I wish I could post my poetry, but it's all in Dutch. But hey, I'll just share one of my poems with a translation. Much is lost in translation though, as with all poetry.

The rhyme scheme is a-a-b-b-c-c; a-a-b-b-c-c; a-a

Artemidorus

Would that be Artemidorus the oneirocritic?

You sound like Cavafy with a Dutch sense of humour. Pretty cool!

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« Reply #55 on: February 21, 2013, 04:32:24 PM »

I think you might enjoy the postwar (WWI, that is) moderns, though -- they often echo themes that your posts here follow.

Can you recommend me a few?

There's always Earl Sweatshirt and Eminem

Seriously? Someone says post-WWI moderns and that first names that pop into your mind are Earl Sweatshirt and Eminem? God help us.

I'm guessing Agabus probably means folks like T.S. Eliot, Ezra Pound, HD, etc. The modern poets I tend to like are usually not really counted as modernists, more like extensions of Romanticism- the surrealists or Dylan Thomas for instance.
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« Reply #56 on: February 21, 2013, 04:35:25 PM »

I like grooks. They are funny and yet thoughtful.

Life makes senses
and who could doubt it,
if we have
no doubt about it.
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« Reply #57 on: February 21, 2013, 04:35:55 PM »

I'm sort of with you on this James. I make some lame attempts at poetry myself, but usually I try to keep it short and simple. I can relate to your frustration with poetic literature. Why does somebody write an entire novel in poetic verse? Just write the story man! I find a lot of the "classic" poetry tedious to read and hard to understand. And who the heck really knows what good poetry is? It seems quite a subjective taste to me. Personally, I think a lot of the greatest poets are song writers. They are able to convey some profound things in a three minute song. That's a gift right there!

Just my two cents.



Selam

"Good" anything is subjective.


Perhaps. But those that compose the literature books don't seem to understand that.



Selam
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« Reply #58 on: February 21, 2013, 04:36:17 PM »

Why does somebody write an entire novel in poetic verse?

You have it backwards. The question is, "Why does somebody write an entire epic in prose?"

Quote
Just write the story man!

Then we might as well just wait for the movie or read a synopsis on Wikipedia.

Quote
And who the heck really knows what good poetry is? It seems quite a subjective taste to me.

If art is subjective then everything must be.
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« Reply #59 on: February 21, 2013, 04:36:44 PM »

You sound like Cavafy with a Dutch sense of humour. Pretty cool!

That's because it's a plagiarism of Cavafy's Ides of March. Roll Eyes
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« Reply #60 on: February 21, 2013, 04:38:13 PM »

I think you might enjoy the postwar (WWI, that is) moderns, though -- they often echo themes that your posts here follow.

Can you recommend me a few?

There's always Earl Sweatshirt and Eminem

Seriously? Someone says post-WWI moderns and that first names that pop into your mind are Earl Sweatshirt and Eminem? God help us.

I'm guessing Agabus probably means folks like T.S. Eliot, Ezra Pound, HD, etc. The modern poets I tend to like are usually not really counted as modernists, more like extensions of Romanticism- the surrealists or Dylan Thomas for instance.

I actually hadn't been paying close attention, and didn't quite realize that JamesR was asking his question in reply to Agabus (or anyone else).

But anyway, yes, I think Earl Sweatshirt and Eminem are legitimate poets with a good deal of skill.
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« Reply #61 on: February 21, 2013, 04:53:12 PM »

You sound like Cavafy with a Dutch sense of humour. Pretty cool!

That's because it's a plagiarism of Cavafy's Ides of March. Roll Eyes

Oh, but Cavafy doesn't have the "Dutch touch" - he's all gloomy and dark and ominous. Cyrillic lightens it up. 

I wouldn't call it plagiarism. A parody, maybe - it actually sounds funny in Dutch. But I guess that's sort of lost in translation...
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« Reply #62 on: February 21, 2013, 04:53:58 PM »

Why does somebody write an entire novel in poetic verse?

You have it backwards. The question is, "Why does somebody write an entire epic in prose?"

Quote
Just write the story man!

Then we might as well just wait for the movie or read a synopsis on Wikipedia.

Quote
And who the heck really knows what good poetry is? It seems quite a subjective taste to me.

If art is subjective then everything must be.


Just goes to prove the point that poetry is indeed subjective.



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« Reply #63 on: February 21, 2013, 04:58:29 PM »

You sound like Cavafy with a Dutch sense of humour. Pretty cool!

That's because it's a plagiarism of Cavafy's Ides of March. Roll Eyes

Oh, but Cavafy doesn't have the "Dutch touch" - he's all gloomy and dark and ominous. Cyrillic lightens it up. 

I wouldn't call it plagiarism. A parody, maybe - it actually sounds funny in Dutch. But I guess that's sort of lost in translation...

I can't ever call Cavafy gloomy or ominous. Melancholy, yes. Wistful, certainly. If I had to describe his work in a single adjective, that would be elegiac. It's the reason I love it so much.

Kostis Palamas' Twelve Lays of the Gypsy, on the other hand... Let's say the man could have done fire and brimstone better than any preacher. Wink
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« Reply #64 on: February 21, 2013, 05:01:23 PM »

Why does somebody write an entire novel in poetic verse?

You have it backwards. The question is, "Why does somebody write an entire epic in prose?"

Quote
Just write the story man!

Then we might as well just wait for the movie or read a synopsis on Wikipedia.

Quote
And who the heck really knows what good poetry is? It seems quite a subjective taste to me.

If art is subjective then everything must be.


Just goes to prove the point that poetry is indeed subjective.

How's that? I never took you for the "Everything's the same, it's all good" type.
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« Reply #65 on: February 21, 2013, 05:07:16 PM »

I can't ever call Cavafy gloomy or ominous. Melancholy, yes. Wistful, certainly. If I had to describe his work in a single adjective, that would be elegiac. It's the reason I love it so much.

I enjoy Cavafy a lot myself - the subject of his Ides of March stroke me as that.

I haven't read Kostis Palamas so far, but he sounds interesting. I'll look him up and see what's to be found online.

Alas, my Hellenic paideusis is full of gaps, chasms actually.  Sad     

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« Reply #66 on: February 21, 2013, 05:12:57 PM »

one of my personal favourites

Déjeuner du matin (Prévert)
Il a mis le café
Dans la tasse
Il a mis le lait
Dans la tasse de café
Il a mis le sucre
Dans le café au lait
Avec la petite cuiller
Il a tourné
Il a bu le café au lait
Et il a reposé la tasse
Sans me parler

Il a allumé
Une cigarette
Il a fait des ronds
Avec la fumée
Il a mis les cendres
Dans le cendrier
Sans me parler
Sans me regarder

Il s'est levé
Il a mis
Son chapeau sur sa tête
Il a mis son manteau de pluie
Parce qu'il pleuvait
Et il est parti
Sous la pluie
Sans une parole
Sans me regarder

Et moi j'ai pris
Ma tête dans ma main
Et j'ai pleuré.
http://litgloss.buffalo.edu/prevert/text.shtml
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« Reply #67 on: February 21, 2013, 05:24:07 PM »

I can't ever call Cavafy gloomy or ominous. Melancholy, yes. Wistful, certainly. If I had to describe his work in a single adjective, that would be elegiac. It's the reason I love it so much.

I enjoy Cavafy a lot myself - the subject of his Ides of March stroke me as that.

I haven't read Kostis Palamas so far, but he sounds interesting. I'll look him up and see what's to be found online.

Alas, my Hellenic paideusis is full of gaps, chasms actually.  Sad

Not much in English at all, he's never been the fashionable kind. You'll have better luck in Greek, and the language is not particularly challenging.

Complete Satirical Etudes (early works, but the fire and brimstone is already there)
Anthology of representative works spanning his entire career
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« Reply #68 on: February 21, 2013, 05:39:34 PM »

Not much in English at all, he's never been the fashionable kind. You'll have better luck in Greek, and the language is not particularly challenging.

Complete Satirical Etudes (early works, but the fire and brimstone is already there)
Anthology of representative works spanning his entire career

Thank you! I loved this one. He writes beautifully and his language is indeed accessible!

"The Twelve Lays of the Gypsy” is the title of a volume? I couldn't find a single poem with γύφτος in the title , so maybe it's not included in the selection. 
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« Reply #69 on: February 21, 2013, 05:40:29 PM »

Poetry is language overcoming the limitations of language.
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« Reply #70 on: February 21, 2013, 05:45:41 PM »

Not much in English at all, he's never been the fashionable kind. You'll have better luck in Greek, and the language is not particularly challenging.

Complete Satirical Etudes (early works, but the fire and brimstone is already there)
Anthology of representative works spanning his entire career

Thank you! I loved this one. He writes beautifully and his language is indeed accessible!

"The Twelve Lays of the Gypsy” is the title of a volume? I couldn't find a single poem with γύφτος in the title , so maybe it's not included in the selection. 

Ο Δωδεκάλογος του Γύφτου - it's a volume-length epic in 12 cantos. There is a musical setting of it as well. My favourite bit (from Canto 8, if I remember well) is this (you'll have to highlight to read it, because the choice of font colour is nothing short of moronic).
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« Reply #71 on: February 21, 2013, 05:57:52 PM »

You sound like Cavafy with a Dutch sense of humour. Pretty cool!

That's because it's a plagiarism of Cavafy's Ides of March. Roll Eyes

You found out  Wink

Well, not really plagiarism, I was  inspired by Cavafy's Ides of March. He doesn't really own copyright on the subject.
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« Reply #72 on: February 21, 2013, 06:00:18 PM »

You sound like Cavafy with a Dutch sense of humour. Pretty cool!

That's because it's a plagiarism of Cavafy's Ides of March. Roll Eyes

You found out  Wink

I paid attention in class. Wink
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« Reply #73 on: February 21, 2013, 06:13:02 PM »

Arachne, what other recommendations do you have for modern Greek poetry or literature?

I find Kostis Palamas exquisite! I thought that there could not be much to stand besides Cavafy, but it seems I was wrong. What else do you like?

Σ'εὐχαριστῶ πάρα πολύ!
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« Reply #74 on: February 21, 2013, 06:23:24 PM »

Arachne, what other recommendations do you have for modern Greek poetry or literature?

I find Kostis Palamas exquisite! I thought that there could not be much to stand besides Cavafy, but it seems I was wrong. What else do you like?

Σ'εὐχαριστῶ πάρα πολύ!

Palamas came very close to the Nobel Prize, so he was definitely no lightweight. His work is so woven into the history of Greece over the first part of the 20th century that his funeral, in 1943, was practically an anti-occupation rally and the German forces could do nothing about it.

I really like most of the poets of his generation. Angelos Sikelianos is to Palamas what Tennyson is to Browning. Kostas Karyotakis and Maria Polydouri are particularly good at the 'short lyric with bite' style. Lorentzos Mavilis is a master of the sonnet. I'm not particularly fond of the post-WW2 poetic ways, but George Seferis, Odysseas Elytis and the recently deceased Nikos Kavvadias can be rewarding. The first two didn't get their Nobels for nothing. Wink
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« Reply #75 on: February 21, 2013, 06:25:50 PM »

Ο Δωδεκάλογος του Γύφτου - it's a volume-length epic in 12 cantos. There is a musical setting of it as well. My favourite bit (from Canto 8, if I remember well) is this (you'll have to highlight to read it, because the choice of font colour is nothing short of moronic).

Yay - I found the complete ebook! If anyone else is interested, it's here for 14 days.
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« Reply #76 on: February 21, 2013, 06:31:50 PM »

Yay - I found the complete ebook! If anyone else is interested, it's here for 14 days.

Yay indeed! *clickysave* Thanks!
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« Reply #77 on: February 24, 2013, 03:57:19 AM »

What's the purpose of poetry? I honestly just don't get it at all. I've been studying it so much for English right now and it does nothing but put me to sleep and bore me. There are no polemics or deep rationalist elements that I could examine, but it just seems like boring emotionalism and feelings and all that crap. My teacher got me all worked up for nothing, announcing to me that we would soon be studying the Moderns, and I got all excited thinking that maybe there would finally be something intellectual and polemic in the Moderns, opposed to the boring over-religious emotionalism I found in the Puritanical American poetry that came before it. But guess what? I got NONE of that! It was the same boring emotionalism that I found in all poetry, only difference was that this time it was over-educated men complaining about their first-world emotional downs. What gives? Where are the staunch criticisms and polemics that I find in Nietzsche? (my favorite author) It's boring and I hate poetry. I don't get the point of it. I don't even pay attention to my own emotions, why am I going to pay attention to some dead guys' emotions?

/rant

I'm not sure how you can stand to attend Orthodox services when pretty much everything is poetry or poetic and mostly non-polemical?  We are coming up to the Last Judgement service, which can give a person something to think about.

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« Reply #78 on: February 24, 2013, 04:11:16 AM »

Would those familiar with Greek literature mind posting in this thread? I'd love to see it take off...  Cool
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« Reply #79 on: February 27, 2013, 02:11:19 PM »

The shortest poem in the English langauge, from the great poet Muhammad Ali:

Me
Whee!


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x75uqd_plimpton-on-ali-s-me-whee_sport


Selam
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