Author Topic: What makes one a Christian?  (Read 4217 times)

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Offline Cyrillic

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What makes one a Christian?
« on: February 25, 2013, 12:35:18 PM »
A friend of mine professes herself to be a Christian and, admittedly, she's doing it a lot better than me. However, she told me she hasn't been baptised. I could barely prevent myself from saying "whoever is not baptised isn't a Christian either". Is this true, though? Can unbaptised people call themselves Christian? What makes one a Christian?
« Last Edit: February 25, 2013, 12:35:51 PM by Cyrillic »
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Offline katherineofdixie

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Re: What makes one a Christian?
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2013, 01:21:11 PM »
A person can call themselves anything they want. (In the future, please address me as "Your Most Serene Highness"). It might be worthwhile to ask why she has not been baptized (quote the eunuch, maybe? "Here is water...")
"If but ten of us lead a holy life, we shall kindle a fire which shall light up the entire city."

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Offline mabsoota

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Re: What makes one a Christian?
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2013, 02:27:39 PM »
i met someone recently who 'loves Jesus a lot'.
she is hindu.

so i think it's best just to get to know people whatever they believe (or say they believe) and gradually share with them the Christian faith as we find it in the orthodox church.
i think getting to know people's real beliefs takes time, so it doesn't really matter what they label themselves, if we are willing to walk with them and share with them.

Offline Alpo

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Re: What makes one a Christian?
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2013, 02:58:30 PM »
A friend of mine professes herself to be a Christian and, admittedly, she's doing it a lot better than me. However, she told me she hasn't been baptised. I could barely prevent myself from saying "whoever is not baptised isn't a Christian either". Is this true, though? Can unbaptised people call themselves Christian? What makes one a Christian?

IMO strictly speaking and by Orthodox standards only baptized and Catechumens are Christians. However since Orthodoxy doesn't have patent for English language we can't define who is and who isn't a Christian in colloquial talk.
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the people on this forum have to stop taking themselves so seriously. None of us are some modern-day Athanasius, we all just have nothing better to do.

Offline genesisone

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Re: What makes one a Christian?
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2013, 04:33:45 PM »
A friend of mine professes herself to be a Christian and, admittedly, she's doing it a lot better than me. However, she told me she hasn't been baptised. I could barely prevent myself from saying "whoever is not baptised isn't a Christian either". Is this true, though? Can unbaptised people call themselves Christian? What makes one a Christian?
It's somewhat like calling yourself "married" even though there has never been a wedding.

Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: What makes one a Christian?
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2013, 11:25:37 PM »
Maybe one day she will be baptized in the Orthodox Church.
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Offline Jason.Wike

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Re: What makes one a Christian?
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2013, 11:38:41 PM »
To have the Holy Spirit indwelling, which comes before baptism (otherwise, no one would seek to be baptized, because the urge to be purified is not our own doing).

Acts 10:44 - 48
While Peter was still saying this, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. And the believers from among the circumcised who came with Peter were amazed because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared, Can any one forbid water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ."


Who would dare to say they were not Christians?
« Last Edit: February 25, 2013, 11:40:22 PM by Jason.Wike »

Offline Punch

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Re: What makes one a Christian?
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2013, 11:53:41 PM »
To have the Holy Spirit indwelling, which comes before baptism (otherwise, no one would seek to be baptized, because the urge to be purified is not our own doing).

Acts 10:44 - 48
While Peter was still saying this, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. And the believers from among the circumcised who came with Peter were amazed because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared, Can any one forbid water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ."


Who would dare to say they were not Christians?

Amen.  One of my favorite passages.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

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Re: What makes one a Christian?
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2013, 02:17:13 PM »
To have the Holy Spirit indwelling, which comes before baptism (otherwise, no one would seek to be baptized, because the urge to be purified is not our own doing).

Acts 10:44 - 48
While Peter was still saying this, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. And the believers from among the circumcised who came with Peter were amazed because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared, Can any one forbid water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ."


Who would dare to say they were not Christians?
But is the title "Christian" a title bestowed on us by God or by man?
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline Alpo

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Re: What makes one a Christian?
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2013, 02:34:41 PM »
Who would dare to say they were not Christians?

o/

They needed to be baptized in order to become Christians.
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the people on this forum have to stop taking themselves so seriously. None of us are some modern-day Athanasius, we all just have nothing better to do.

Offline Jason.Wike

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Re: What makes one a Christian?
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2013, 02:55:38 PM »
Who would dare to say they were not Christians?

o/

They needed to be baptized in order to become Christians.

They had the Holy Spirit dwelling in them, how could they not already be Christians? It honestly seems like sacrilege to say so.

Offline Jason.Wike

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Re: What makes one a Christian?
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2013, 02:58:14 PM »
To have the Holy Spirit indwelling, which comes before baptism (otherwise, no one would seek to be baptized, because the urge to be purified is not our own doing).

Acts 10:44 - 48
While Peter was still saying this, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. And the believers from among the circumcised who came with Peter were amazed because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared, Can any one forbid water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ."


Who would dare to say they were not Christians?
But is the title "Christian" a title bestowed on us by God or by man?

Not sure what it has to do with, but they were first called Christians in Antioch so it is a thing of man.

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Re: What makes one a Christian?
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2013, 03:02:09 PM »
I honestly don't like discussing what it takes to "be a Christian", since the word "be" is a static verb that doesn't imply any action whatsoever. I much prefer to speak in terms of action verbs, such as in the question of what it takes to "follow Christ". To follow Christ is to obey His commandments. Can anyone truly say they're following Christ if, given the opportunity, they're not yet baptized according to the apostolic command to repent and be baptized for the remission of sins?
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Re: What makes one a Christian?
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2013, 03:03:50 PM »
To have the Holy Spirit indwelling, which comes before baptism (otherwise, no one would seek to be baptized, because the urge to be purified is not our own doing).

Acts 10:44 - 48
While Peter was still saying this, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. And the believers from among the circumcised who came with Peter were amazed because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared, Can any one forbid water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ."


Who would dare to say they were not Christians?
But is the title "Christian" a title bestowed on us by God or by man?

Not sure what it has to do with, but they were first called Christians in Antioch so it is a thing of man.
So is it not then the authority of man that decides what can or cannot be called Christian?
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline Alpo

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Re: What makes one a Christian?
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2013, 03:04:08 PM »
Who would dare to say they were not Christians?

o/

They needed to be baptized in order to become Christians.

They had the Holy Spirit dwelling in them, how could they not already be Christians?

Apparently Holy Spirit can dwell in people in many different ways. Otherwise baptism would have been completely useless for them. To me that sounds like a sacrilege.
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Offline Jason.Wike

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Re: What makes one a Christian?
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2013, 03:07:17 PM »
I honestly don't like discussing what it takes to "be a Christian", since the word "be" is a static verb that doesn't imply any action whatsoever. I much prefer to speak in terms of action verbs, such as in the question of what it takes to "follow Christ". To follow Christ is to obey His commandments. Can anyone truly say they're following Christ if, given the opportunity, they're not yet baptized according to the apostolic command to repent and be baptized for the remission of sins?

And who can say someone has had the opportunity or not? There is much that goes into that (discovering which body claiming to be the Church is really the church just the beginning). And then, it (usually) is not that simple as saying "I want to be baptized, baptize me."

Offline Jason.Wike

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Re: What makes one a Christian?
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2013, 03:11:55 PM »
To have the Holy Spirit indwelling, which comes before baptism (otherwise, no one would seek to be baptized, because the urge to be purified is not our own doing).

Acts 10:44 - 48
While Peter was still saying this, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. And the believers from among the circumcised who came with Peter were amazed because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared, Can any one forbid water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ."


Who would dare to say they were not Christians?
But is the title "Christian" a title bestowed on us by God or by man?

Not sure what it has to do with, but they were first called Christians in Antioch so it is a thing of man.
So is it not then the authority of man that decides what can or cannot be called Christian?

Not now that it already has a meaning.

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Re: What makes one a Christian?
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2013, 03:41:31 PM »
To have the Holy Spirit indwelling, which comes before baptism (otherwise, no one would seek to be baptized, because the urge to be purified is not our own doing).

Acts 10:44 - 48
While Peter was still saying this, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. And the believers from among the circumcised who came with Peter were amazed because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared, Can any one forbid water for baptizing these people who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ."


Who would dare to say they were not Christians?
But is the title "Christian" a title bestowed on us by God or by man?

Not sure what it has to do with, but they were first called Christians in Antioch so it is a thing of man.
So is it not then the authority of man that decides what can or cannot be called Christian?

Not now that it already has a meaning.
Does it really have a meaning, considering that we can't even agree on this thread what "Christian" means?
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline WPM

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Re: What makes one a Christian?
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2013, 03:43:26 PM »
Quote
What makes one a Christian?


A follower of Jesus Christ.

Offline alanscott

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Re: What makes one a Christian?
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2013, 10:13:58 AM »
I do not avoid the consideration, yet, dare not attempt to define ‘what is a Christian’ pertaining to others. I think I am best served to focus on my own repentance and allow God to define it in my own heart pertaining to myself. I should speak my understanding of the Truth and pray God reveals Himself to others in His way for their heart to accept and understand. Thy will be done and Lord knows I cannot always discern what or how that goes down for myself much less others.

With that said I do believe in Baptism and Baptismal regeneration (though perhaps not to the fullness of an Orthodox? IDK yet) though constantly find myself reminded of the thief on the cross. In the end is it not God that defines this as it is God that instills His Spirit in our hearts?

I have and do profit from the following definition though of ‘an altogether Christian’. I presume as this is the ‘Orthodox-Other’ board it is permissible to post from a non Orthodox source. If that is improper to anyone please allow me to apologize in advance. The quote is from a John Wesley sermon ‘The Almost Christian’ and to my limited knowledge I don’t think it conflicts with Orthodoxy to any great length. I would be grateful to know if it did.

Yea, our Lord himself declares, "He that believeth in the Son hath everlasting life; and cometh not into condemnation, but is passed from death unto life."

But here let no man deceive his own soul. "It is diligently to be noted, the faith which bringeth not forth repentance, and love, and all good works, is not that right living faith, but a dead and devilish one. For, even the devils believe that Christ was born of a virgin: that he wrought all kinds of miracles, declaring himself very God: that, for our sakes, he suffered a most painful death, to redeem us from death everlasting; that he rose again the third day: that he ascended into heaven, and sitteth at the right hand of the Father and at the end of the world shall come again to judge both the quick and dead. These articles of our faith the devils believe, and so they believe all that is written in the Old and New Testament. And yet for all this faith, they be but devils. They remain still in their damnable estate lacking the very true Christian faith."

"The right and true Christian faith is not only to believe that Holy Scripture and the Articles of our Faith are true, but also to have a sure trust and confidence to be saved from everlasting damnation by Christ. It is a sure trust and confidence which a man hath in God, that, by the merits of Christ, his sins are forgiven, and he reconciled to the favour of God; whereof doth follow a loving heart, to obey his commandments."


Peace & Grace
There are heathens that live with more virtue than I. The devil himself believes Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Neither of these things truly makes me Christian.

Offline Cyrillic

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Re: What makes one a Christian?
« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2013, 11:14:14 AM »
A person can call themselves anything they want. (In the future, please address me as "Your Most Serene Highness"). It might be worthwhile to ask why she has not been baptized (quote the eunuch, maybe? "Here is water...")

Are you suggesting that I should baptise her myself?  ???
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Offline jmbejdl

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Re: What makes one a Christian?
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2013, 11:19:20 AM »
A friend of mine professes herself to be a Christian and, admittedly, she's doing it a lot better than me. However, she told me she hasn't been baptised. I could barely prevent myself from saying "whoever is not baptised isn't a Christian either". Is this true, though? Can unbaptised people call themselves Christian? What makes one a Christian?

Is she simply unbaptised, or is she unwilling to be baptised? I think that the difference is crucial. I have no trouble imagining a Christian who has not yet been baptised, but I think a refusal to be baptised would be tantamount to an admission that one is not Christian at all. If she never intends to be baptised at all then I think your initial reaction was not far off the mark.

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Offline Ashman618

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Re: What makes one a Christian?
« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2013, 01:01:49 PM »
Quote
What makes one a Christian?


A follower of Jesus Christ.

Which Jesus there's 10's of thousands of the floating around  ???

Offline katherineofdixie

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Re: What makes one a Christian?
« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2013, 01:05:29 PM »
A person can call themselves anything they want. (In the future, please address me as "Your Most Serene Highness"). It might be worthwhile to ask why she has not been baptized (quote the eunuch, maybe? "Here is water...")

Are you suggesting that I should baptise her myself?  ???

I can only speak from childhood experiences playing church. Dogs will often let you baptize them, without a problem. Cats and neighbor children tend to fight it.  ;)
"If but ten of us lead a holy life, we shall kindle a fire which shall light up the entire city."

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Offline mabsoota

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Re: What makes one a Christian?
« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2013, 05:15:22 PM »
A person can call themselves anything they want. (In the future, please address me as "Your Most Serene Highness"). It might be worthwhile to ask why she has not been baptized (quote the eunuch, maybe? "Here is water...")

Are you suggesting that I should baptise her myself?  ???

I can only speak from childhood experiences playing church. Dogs will often let you baptize them, without a problem. Cats and neighbor children tend to fight it.  ;)

 :D ha ha!

cyrillic,
i don't think they are suggesting u should baptise her yourself. i think u should just get to know her and gently share your faith as you are able and then take it from there.

Offline Cyrillic

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Re: What makes one a Christian?
« Reply #25 on: February 27, 2013, 05:23:21 PM »
I think I know her. She's one of my best friends  :)
« Last Edit: February 27, 2013, 05:23:27 PM by Cyrillic »
At nunc desertis cessant sacraria lucis:
aurum omnes victa iam pietate colunt.
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νὰ μὴ ζητήσουνε νὰ βροῦν ποιός ἢμουν
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Offline mabsoota

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Re: What makes one a Christian?
« Reply #26 on: February 27, 2013, 05:24:07 PM »
that's great, yr half way there, just encourage her in her spiritual journey towards deeper things.
may God bless u and guide u
 :)

Offline JamesR

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Re: What makes one a Christian?
« Reply #27 on: February 27, 2013, 05:27:13 PM »
That emotional high you feel when you see a "Jesus loves you!" sticker on the back of a car, or you hear a song that really speaks to you on K-Love and you stop and cry for ten minutes. So then you call a weird 1-800 number and say the "sinner's prayer" which is probably no older than 20-50 years, and then start telling everyone that you are "saved."
Until I see the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come, I will not believe.

Offline Armchair Theologian

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Re: What makes one a Christian?
« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2013, 01:58:22 AM »
That emotional high you feel when you see a "Jesus loves you!" sticker on the back of a car, or you hear a song that really speaks to you on K-Love and you stop and cry for ten minutes. So then you call a weird 1-800 number and say the "sinner's prayer" which is probably no older than 20-50 years, and then start telling everyone that you are "saved."

I completely understand where you're coming from, but I wouldn't dismiss such experiences completely. Everything has to start somewhere, even if the journey begins in foolishness, it can still be a step in the right direction. I'm sure there are Orthodox priests out there somewhere who began their journey toward God in just such a way.  :)
« Last Edit: March 01, 2013, 01:59:42 AM by Armchair Theologian »

Offline Nicene

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Re: What makes one a Christian?
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2013, 04:51:40 AM »
Before my own baptism I still considered myself Christian. How could I not? Only that I had yet to tkae part in the faith and grow in it. So Maybe there is a distinction to be made between those who have fullness of Christianity, and those who do not.
Thank you.

Offline Punch

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Re: What makes one a Christian?
« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2013, 05:20:15 PM »
I honestly don't like discussing what it takes to "be a Christian", since the word "be" is a static verb that doesn't imply any action whatsoever. I much prefer to speak in terms of action verbs, such as in the question of what it takes to "follow Christ". To follow Christ is to obey His commandments. Can anyone truly say they're following Christ if, given the opportunity, they're not yet baptized according to the apostolic command to repent and be baptized for the remission of sins?

I may be misunderstanding you, but it seems that you are confusing "Christian" with "Salvation", which is a process as you describe.  I don't think that all Christians will be Saved.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline WPM

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Re: What makes one a Christian?
« Reply #31 on: March 02, 2013, 05:32:55 PM »
Through Bible Ministry?...Learn how to be a Christian  ;)
« Last Edit: March 02, 2013, 05:33:59 PM by WPM »

Offline Marc1152

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Re: What makes one a Christian?
« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2013, 05:36:46 PM »
A friend of mine professes herself to be a Christian and, admittedly, she's doing it a lot better than me. However, she told me she hasn't been baptised. I could barely prevent myself from saying "whoever is not baptised isn't a Christian either". Is this true, though? Can unbaptised people call themselves Christian? What makes one a Christian?

You must be baptized. There are rare exception but this doesn't sound like one of them.
Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Offline thethinker

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Re: What makes one a Christian?
« Reply #33 on: March 03, 2013, 06:10:19 AM »
Is it permissable to debate the necessity of baptism here?

Offline Kerdy

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Re: What makes one a Christian?
« Reply #34 on: March 03, 2013, 06:53:15 AM »
I honestly don't like discussing what it takes to "be a Christian", since the word "be" is a static verb that doesn't imply any action whatsoever. I much prefer to speak in terms of action verbs, such as in the question of what it takes to "follow Christ". To follow Christ is to obey His commandments. Can anyone truly say they're following Christ if, given the opportunity, they're not yet baptized according to the apostolic command to repent and be baptized for the remission of sins?

I may be misunderstanding you, but it seems that you are confusing "Christian" with "Salvation", which is a process as you describe.  I don't think that all Christians will be Saved.

Hmm, I never considered this possibility in the strictest sense.

Can a person be a Christian and yet not even be remotely be headed toward Salvation?  I suppose it is possible if a person is living according to the teachings of the Church, Scriptures and Jesus in a legalistic way rather than through faith, such as the rich young ruler, could be considered a Christian in the same manner a person would be considered a Buddhist.  However, I personally would not consider such a person a Christian in the way I understand a true Christian, but it certainly a possible way to look at it.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2013, 07:14:50 AM by Kerdy »

Offline Cyrillic

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Re: What makes one a Christian?
« Reply #35 on: March 03, 2013, 06:59:23 AM »
Is it permissable to debate the necessity of baptism here?

Yes. It's in the Orthodox-Other Christian Discussion forum.
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Offline Shiny

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Re: What makes one a Christian?
« Reply #36 on: March 03, 2013, 07:17:15 AM »
Quote
What makes one a Christian?


A follower of Jesus Christ.

Which Jesus there's 10's of thousands of the floating around  ???
The one that says blessed are the consumers, for their material reward on earth is great. I tell you the truth, bless yourself with a private jet, mansion and diamonds, for you have done that to me.

But Benny Hinn forgot to say he got crucified by credit card debt.
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Offline thethinker

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Re: What makes one a Christian?
« Reply #37 on: March 03, 2013, 09:40:44 AM »
Is it permissable to debate the necessity of baptism here?

Yes. It's in the Orthodox-Other Christian Discussion forum.

Thank you! I am making sure from now on so I receive no more warnings.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2013, 09:42:33 AM by thethinker »

Offline Punch

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Re: What makes one a Christian?
« Reply #38 on: March 03, 2013, 11:54:27 AM »
I honestly don't like discussing what it takes to "be a Christian", since the word "be" is a static verb that doesn't imply any action whatsoever. I much prefer to speak in terms of action verbs, such as in the question of what it takes to "follow Christ". To follow Christ is to obey His commandments. Can anyone truly say they're following Christ if, given the opportunity, they're not yet baptized according to the apostolic command to repent and be baptized for the remission of sins?

I may be misunderstanding you, but it seems that you are confusing "Christian" with "Salvation", which is a process as you describe.  I don't think that all Christians will be Saved.

Hmm, I never considered this possibility in the strictest sense.

Can a person be a Christian and yet not even be remotely be headed toward Salvation?  I suppose it is possible if a person is living according to the teachings of the Church, Scriptures and Jesus in a legalistic way rather than through faith, such as the rich young ruler, could be considered a Christian in the same manner a person would be considered a Buddhist.  However, I personally would not consider such a person a Christian in the way I understand a true Christian, but it certainly a possible way to look at it.


Who is a Christian is determined by man.  Who is Saved is determined by God.  The writings of the Fathers contain stories of Bishops in Hell.  I bet most people thought they were Christian.  I also wonder how many people seeking God in remote parts of the world find Him the same way that Paul did.  There is no Salvation without Christ.  But really, how many of the World's "Christians" know anything about Him?
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

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Re: What makes one a Christian?
« Reply #39 on: March 03, 2013, 11:55:32 AM »
I honestly don't like discussing what it takes to "be a Christian", since the word "be" is a static verb that doesn't imply any action whatsoever. I much prefer to speak in terms of action verbs, such as in the question of what it takes to "follow Christ". To follow Christ is to obey His commandments. Can anyone truly say they're following Christ if, given the opportunity, they're not yet baptized according to the apostolic command to repent and be baptized for the remission of sins?

I may be misunderstanding you, but it seems that you are confusing "Christian" with "Salvation", which is a process as you describe.  I don't think that all Christians will be Saved.
No, I'm not confusing "Christian" with "Salvation". In truth, I'm making a difference between the two. Not all Christians will be saved, but one must follow Christ to be saved.
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Offline Kerdy

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Re: What makes one a Christian?
« Reply #40 on: March 04, 2013, 08:09:58 AM »
I honestly don't like discussing what it takes to "be a Christian", since the word "be" is a static verb that doesn't imply any action whatsoever. I much prefer to speak in terms of action verbs, such as in the question of what it takes to "follow Christ". To follow Christ is to obey His commandments. Can anyone truly say they're following Christ if, given the opportunity, they're not yet baptized according to the apostolic command to repent and be baptized for the remission of sins?

I may be misunderstanding you, but it seems that you are confusing "Christian" with "Salvation", which is a process as you describe.  I don't think that all Christians will be Saved.

Hmm, I never considered this possibility in the strictest sense.

Can a person be a Christian and yet not even be remotely be headed toward Salvation?  I suppose it is possible if a person is living according to the teachings of the Church, Scriptures and Jesus in a legalistic way rather than through faith, such as the rich young ruler, could be considered a Christian in the same manner a person would be considered a Buddhist.  However, I personally would not consider such a person a Christian in the way I understand a true Christian, but it certainly a possible way to look at it.


Who is a Christian is determined by man.  Who is Saved is determined by God.  The writings of the Fathers contain stories of Bishops in Hell.  I bet most people thought they were Christian.  I also wonder how many people seeking God in remote parts of the world find Him the same way that Paul did.  There is no Salvation without Christ.  But really, how many of the World's "Christians" know anything about Him?

I understand this clear enough, I think, but I just never thought of it this way before.  It makes a lot of sense though.

Offline thethinker

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Re: What makes one a Christian?
« Reply #41 on: March 04, 2013, 04:21:03 PM »
A friend of mine professes herself to be a Christian and, admittedly, she's doing it a lot better than me. However, she told me she hasn't been baptised. I could barely prevent myself from saying "whoever is not baptised isn't a Christian either". Is this true, though? Can unbaptised people call themselves Christian? What makes one a Christian?

You must be baptized. There are rare exception but this doesn't sound like one of them.


The scripture indicates that Cornelius and his house were the LAST to be baptized with water. After this, new covenant Spirit baptism took full effect. Peter's vision of the unclean animals being made clean was the point of the change over from water baptism to Spirit baptism.

1. Peter had water baptized Jews only COMMANDING them to be baptized in the name of Jesus.

2. Then Peter has a vision inwhich he was commanded by God to eat all manner of animals. Peter said "no," and God rebuked him saying, "What God has cleansed do not call 'unclean.' "

3. Then Peter preached to the Gentiles saying that God shows no partiality and while he was speaking the Gentiles received the gift of the Spirit. He explained the vision of the unclean animals being made clean.

4. Then Peter takes a less dogmatic view of water baptism. Before his vision he preached it as a mandate. He COMMANDED the Jews to be water baptized invoking the name of Jesus. But now he consults the people rather than invoke the name of Jesus. He said, "What prevents these [Gentiles] from being baptized?" The people consent to their being baptized and Peter baptizes Cornelius and his house.

a. It is not to be ignored that Peter did NOT invoke the name of Jesus on this occasion. He consulted the people.

b. And when the people consented to the Gentiles being baptized Peter did NOT command it as he commanded the Jews before his vision. Our English translations erroneously translate the word protasso as "He commanded then to be baptized," when it actually says, "He pre-arranged for them to be baptized."

5. Then Peter reflected upon all that had happened and the word of Jesus came to his mind when He said, "John indeed baptized with water, but you shalll be baptized with the Holy Spirit."

This is when water baptism was finished and Spirit baptism took full effect. After the baptism of Cornelius and his house all baptisms in the book of Acts were Spirit baptisms.

There is only ONE baptism now which is the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2013, 04:22:38 PM by thethinker »

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Re: What makes one a Christian?
« Reply #42 on: March 04, 2013, 04:36:49 PM »

There is only ONE baptism now which is the baptism of the Holy Spirit.


You don't say?

So I guess our Lord was just fooling when He said “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." John 3:5
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Offline thethinker

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Re: What makes one a Christian?
« Reply #43 on: March 04, 2013, 08:54:54 PM »

There is only ONE baptism now which is the baptism of the Holy Spirit.


You don't say?

So I guess our Lord was just fooling when He said “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." John 3:5


Water is a symbol for the word (Ephesians 5:26). Isaac was born of the Spirit from Sarah's womb as the result of the word (promise) of God. Isaac was not baptized. He was circumcised.

So you do not take the statement that there is ONE baptism to be true?



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Re: What makes one a Christian?
« Reply #44 on: March 04, 2013, 08:59:07 PM »

There is only ONE baptism now which is the baptism of the Holy Spirit.


You don't say?

So I guess our Lord was just fooling when He said “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." John 3:5


Water is a symbol for the word (Ephesians 5:26). Isaac was born of the Spirit from Sarah's womb as the result of the word (promise) of God. Isaac was not baptized. He was circumcised.

So you do not take the statement that there is ONE baptism to be true?



We do not take your novel interpretation of the Bible to be true. Who taught it to you?
« Last Edit: March 04, 2013, 08:59:33 PM by PeterTheAleut »
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