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Author Topic: Can The Lord Almighty Change The Nature Of A People?  (Read 2353 times)

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Offline Studying_Orthodoxy

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Can The Lord Almighty Change The Nature Of A People?
« on: February 19, 2013, 10:56:01 PM »
In the book of Jeremiah 13:23 it is written: "Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots? Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil."

This verse suggests that if a person or people have an evil nature that they cannot change. Just as an Ethiopian cannot change his skin and the leopard cannot change his spots the one who does evil cannot do good.

Such a verse concerns me as I am from a people and nation which have fallen into many sinful acts, to some extent much greater than in other countries. While most here would say that acceptance of Christ would be the solution in this case, what worries me most is the thought that certain negative traits may be inherent in a people and unchangeable, therefore something of great shame to me. In my country there is binge drinking, sexual immorality and other vices. These exist in other countries but in mine they are on a grand scale. Always I had told myself that I am not like those people and that such things are not in my nature. Yet now I read this verse which I fear suggests such traits are inherent in my people. What I want for my children would be that they can be free of these thing and be able to live with honour and dignity.

Is there really no way for the nature of a people to be changed? What if I pray that the Lord Almighty would change the nature of my people to one that while still inclined to sin, as are all men, avoids the excesses to which they fall into it? An Ethiopian cannot change his skin and a leopard cannot change its spots. However the Lord Almighty is able to. Therefore my hope is that if I pray to the Lord Almighty for my nature not to be wicked to extreme extents that I would while still a sinner not be naturally inclined to absolute excessive debauchery. I pray that this may be so.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2013, 10:57:59 PM by Studying_Orthodoxy »
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Offline LBK

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Re: Can The Lord Almighty Change The Nature Of A People?
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2013, 11:02:31 PM »
Repentance is possible to even the worst of sinners. Difficult, but not impossible, with God's help. St Mary of Egypt is a prime example, and she is by no means the only one.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2013, 11:03:02 PM by LBK »
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Offline WPM

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Re: Can The Lord Almighty Change The Nature Of A People?
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2013, 11:07:38 PM »
Quote
Re: Can The Lord Almighty Change The Nature Of A People?

Yes.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2013, 11:08:38 PM by WPM »
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Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Can The Lord Almighty Change The Nature Of A People?
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2013, 11:34:00 PM »
Quote from: Studying_Orthodoxy on February 19, 2013, 10:56:01 PM
In the book of Jeremiah 13:23 it is written: "Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots? Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil."

This verse suggests that if a person or people have an evil nature that they cannot change. Just as an Ethiopian cannot change his skin and the leopard cannot change his spots the one who does evil cannot do good.
The 'evil-natured' people in question are the Israelites.

God saved and redeemed Israel.

Therefore, the Scriptures testify to the possibility of change.

Read the rest of Jeremiah.
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Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

Offline JamesR

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Re: Can The Lord Almighty Change The Nature Of A People?
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2013, 04:56:49 AM »
Quote from: NicholasMyra on February 19, 2013, 11:34:00 PM
God saved and redeemed Israel.

 I thought they screwed up and failed, so God saved the Gentiles instead?
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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Can The Lord Almighty Change The Nature Of A People?
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2013, 05:15:45 AM »
Quote from: JamesR on February 20, 2013, 04:56:49 AM
Quote from: NicholasMyra on February 19, 2013, 11:34:00 PM
God saved and redeemed Israel.

 I thought they screwed up and failed, so God saved the Gentiles instead?

Well, no. The first proselytes were Jews.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 05:16:05 AM by Cyrillic »
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Offline Studying_Orthodoxy

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Re: Can The Lord Almighty Change The Nature Of A People?
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2013, 06:41:14 AM »
This is encouraging to hear. Thank you, friends. At least there is hope that the condition of my nation can improve. For those of you who think this is not an important issue, remember this, if you are inclined to evil then it is harder for you to be a good person.

Who does not want to have positive attributes?
« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 06:41:39 AM by Studying_Orthodoxy »
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Offline Pericles

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Re: Can The Lord Almighty Change The Nature Of A People?
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2013, 08:24:19 AM »
Quote from: Cyrillic on February 20, 2013, 05:15:45 AM
Well, no. The first proselytes were Jews.
Well no the first converts were Christians doh!
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Offline Romaios

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Re: Can The Lord Almighty Change The Nature Of A People?
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2013, 08:27:21 AM »
Quote from: Pericles on February 20, 2013, 08:24:19 AM
Quote from: Cyrillic on February 20, 2013, 05:15:45 AM
Well, no. The first proselytes were Jews.
Well no the first converts were Christians doh!

"The disciples were first called Christians at Antioch." (Acts 11:26)
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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Can The Lord Almighty Change The Nature Of A People?
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2013, 09:15:31 AM »
Don't play semantic tricks, the first Christians did come from among the Jews.
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Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Can The Lord Almighty Change The Nature Of A People?
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2013, 02:45:46 PM »
Quote from: JamesR on February 20, 2013, 04:56:49 AM
Quote from: NicholasMyra on February 19, 2013, 11:34:00 PM
God saved and redeemed Israel.

 I thought they screwed up and failed, so God saved the Gentiles instead?

No, James.

The Israel of God in the Messiah is the Church, which is from the Jews and now includes Gentiles. Unfaithful branches (those Jews who rejected Christ) were cut off; just the unfaithful ones.

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Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Can The Lord Almighty Change The Nature Of A People?
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2013, 02:46:36 PM »
Quote from: Pericles on February 20, 2013, 08:24:19 AM
Quote from: Cyrillic on February 20, 2013, 05:15:45 AM
Well, no. The first proselytes were Jews.
Well no the first converts were Christians doh!
They are not opposites.
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Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
...you can imagine so-called healing services of the pigpen. The books that could be written, you know: Life in the Pigpen. How to Cope in the Pigpen. Being Happy in the Pigpen. Surviving in the Pigpen. And then there could be counselling, for people who feel unhappy in the pigpen, to try to get them to come to terms with the pigpen, and to accept the pigpen.

Offline erimos

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Re: Can The Lord Almighty Change The Nature Of A People?
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2013, 09:08:43 AM »
Leopards remain as they are, and Etheopians cannot change the colour of their skins, unless they take lessons from pop stars. However, Christians are reborn sinners... Changed... And become Christ-like. No longer they live, but Christ lives in them. Each strives to ascend towards heaven with contrition, repentance, confession, and the grace of God. There is hope with every breath we take.
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Offline Faith2545

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Re: Can The Lord Almighty Change The Nature Of A People?
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2013, 03:17:28 PM »
Quote from: NicholasMyra on February 20, 2013, 02:45:46 PM
Quote from: JamesR on February 20, 2013, 04:56:49 AM
Quote from: NicholasMyra on February 19, 2013, 11:34:00 PM
God saved and redeemed Israel.

 I thought they screwed up and failed, so God saved the Gentiles instead?

Unfaithful branches (those Jews who rejected Christ) were cut off; just the unfaithful ones.



Yes, but aren't these people (those jews who rejected Christ) still around and the reason why the world is the way it is? They are continuing to reject Christ & Christians alike. If they don't see the tremendous fault in their ways, how can/will they be saved? Despite as religious and faithful as the claim to act/be?
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Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: Can The Lord Almighty Change The Nature Of A People?
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2013, 03:34:07 PM »
Quote from: Faith2545 on March 05, 2013, 03:17:28 PM
Quote from: NicholasMyra on February 20, 2013, 02:45:46 PM
Quote from: JamesR on February 20, 2013, 04:56:49 AM
Quote from: NicholasMyra on February 19, 2013, 11:34:00 PM
God saved and redeemed Israel.

 I thought they screwed up and failed, so God saved the Gentiles instead?

Unfaithful branches (those Jews who rejected Christ) were cut off; just the unfaithful ones.



Yes, but aren't these people (those jews who rejected Christ) still around and the reason why the world is the way it is? They are continuing to reject Christ & Christians alike. If they don't see the tremendous fault in their ways, how can/will they be saved? Despite as religious and faithful as the claim to act/be?

You know, there once was a man from a small town in the Middle East.  He said "Judge not lest ye be judged."
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