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Author Topic: Am I a Slav?  (Read 1787 times) Average Rating: 0
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Tikhon.of.Colorado
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« on: February 19, 2013, 03:56:57 PM »

I'm filling out a lengthy scholarship application for my university.  Under "ethnic origin," they have the usual answers such as "white, black, hispanic, etc."  One answer they have that surprised me, though, is "Slavic." 

My heritage is Polish, Slovak, German, and British.  My mother's father, and my father's mother were the children of Slavic immigrants. 

I'm rather confounded.  I mean, I was brought up with a strong Polish American identity by my grandmother, but my name is entirely of English origin.  My heritage is only 1/2 Eastern European, and I've heard some debate over weather Poles and Slovaks are, indeed, Slavs.

I'm thinking of just selecting "white" and being done with it, but still I wonder.

Am I a Sav? 

(Being an American, I find this suggestion a bit silly, as most Americans of Slavic descent would feel like foreigners in Eastern Europe, anyway...)
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« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2013, 04:01:58 PM »

Am I a Sav? 

Being an American . . .

You answered your own question.
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« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2013, 04:02:37 PM »

If it is just a matter of checkboxes, perhaps ticking 'White - Other' would be the least hassle.

I agree with you that such classifications are becoming increasingly irrelevant as we get less and less 'thoroughbred', so to speak. The medical environment, where such background can still be important for genetic predisposition reasons, had better think of a more efficient system soon.
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« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2013, 04:03:08 PM »

Am I a Sav? 

Being an American . . .

You answered your own question.
One would think so, but so many Americans whose great, great, great grandparents came here act like they're fresh off the boat from Greece, Russia, Serbia, etc.  I'd think I'm just as Slavic as them! Wink
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« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2013, 04:05:01 PM »

If it is just a matter of checkboxes, perhaps ticking 'White - Other' would be the least hassle.

I agree with you that such classifications are becoming increasingly irrelevant as we get less and less 'thoroughbred', so to speak. The medical environment, where such background can still be important for genetic predisposition reasons, had better think of a more efficient system soon.
I agree.  My poor mother has a hard time remembering who she's a descendant of.  She has to choose "Slovak," and if that's not there, she has to choose "Austro-Hungarian."  She must put "Alsacian," and if that's not a choice, she must choose "German" or "French."  She must also remember to choose "Ashkenazi Jewish." 

She calls me every time she has to fill out one of these forms!  laugh
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« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2013, 04:07:31 PM »

If you're serious about the application, don't get "cute".  Is "Caucasian" a choice?  If so, just put that.  Otherwise, just put "white" and be done with it.  There will be plenty of other, far more serious things to agonize about if and when you get accepted.
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« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2013, 04:08:34 PM »

If you're serious about the application, don't get "cute".  Is "Caucasian" a choice?  If so, just put that.  Otherwise, just put "white" and be done with it.  There will be plenty of other, far more serious things to agonize about if and when you get accepted.

Good idea, that's just what I'll do.

I'm reminded of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTIon_U9jik
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« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2013, 04:11:57 PM »

I had to sign up for a "health coach" in order to cut a few bucks off my health insurance.  So, when they phoned me and drilled me...one of the last questions was my race and ethnic origin.

Surprising even myself, I gave them a hard time.  I mean, what difference does it make to you where my ancestors are from?  I'm paying you for my health insurance, and my money is just as green, no matter where my grandparents were born.

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« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2013, 04:14:56 PM »

I had to sign up for a "health coach" in order to cut a few bucks off my health insurance.  So, when they phoned me and drilled me...one of the last questions was my race and ethnic origin.

Surprising even myself, I gave them a hard time.  I mean, what difference does it make to you where my ancestors are from?  I'm paying you for my health insurance, and my money is just as green, no matter where my grandparents were born.


Totally.  It's not like I'll stick out from the rest of the white students, what with my long mustache, sharovary pants, and constant urge to dance the hopak!
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« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2013, 04:23:16 PM »

I had to sign up for a "health coach" in order to cut a few bucks off my health insurance.  So, when they phoned me and drilled me...one of the last questions was my race and ethnic origin.

Surprising even myself, I gave them a hard time.  I mean, what difference does it make to you where my ancestors are from?  I'm paying you for my health insurance, and my money is just as green, no matter where my grandparents were born.



Cause certain diseases, disorders, syndromes etc. correlate with either genetics or from environment.

It is a now relatively imprecise yet pretty cheap genetic screening.

Check out the many problems "native peoples" have when they find themselves within the average American way of living for examples.
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« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2013, 04:27:41 PM »

I had to sign up for a "health coach" in order to cut a few bucks off my health insurance.  So, when they phoned me and drilled me...one of the last questions was my race and ethnic origin.

Surprising even myself, I gave them a hard time.  I mean, what difference does it make to you where my ancestors are from?  I'm paying you for my health insurance, and my money is just as green, no matter where my grandparents were born.



Cause certain diseases, disorders, syndromes etc. correlate with either genetics or from environment.

It is a now relatively imprecise yet pretty cheap genetic screening.

Check out the many problems "native peoples" have when they find themselves within the average American way of living for examples.

You beat me to it. Insurance is pretty much a straight up probabilities game. The companies are basically banking on the fact that most people don't need aid until after they've paid in a certain amount. So anything which can affect the probabilities of their policyholders needing to cash in is considered in the process. That includes ethnicities.
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« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2013, 04:31:52 PM »

I had to sign up for a "health coach" in order to cut a few bucks off my health insurance.  So, when they phoned me and drilled me...one of the last questions was my race and ethnic origin.

Surprising even myself, I gave them a hard time.  I mean, what difference does it make to you where my ancestors are from?  I'm paying you for my health insurance, and my money is just as green, no matter where my grandparents were born.



Cause certain diseases, disorders, syndromes etc. correlate with either genetics or from environment.

It is a now relatively imprecise yet pretty cheap genetic screening.

Check out the many problems "native peoples" have when they find themselves within the average American way of living for examples.

This is all quite true.  (But, as my son once told me when he was 9 or 10 in response to a question I asked him: "It's none of your damned Yankee business!"  All said in his perfect East Midlands [England] accent.  In spite of the "damn", I couldn't stop laughing for 20 minutes!!)
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« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2013, 04:33:17 PM »

I had to sign up for a "health coach" in order to cut a few bucks off my health insurance.  So, when they phoned me and drilled me...one of the last questions was my race and ethnic origin.

Surprising even myself, I gave them a hard time.  I mean, what difference does it make to you where my ancestors are from?  I'm paying you for my health insurance, and my money is just as green, no matter where my grandparents were born.



Cause certain diseases, disorders, syndromes etc. correlate with either genetics or from environment.

It is a now relatively imprecise yet pretty cheap genetic screening.

Check out the many problems "native peoples" have when they find themselves within the average American way of living for examples.

This is all quite true.  (But, as my son once told me when he was 9 or 10 in response to a question I asked him: "It's none of your damned Yankee business!"  All said in his perfect East Midlands [England] accent.  In spite of the "damn", I couldn't stop laughing for 20 minutes!!)

Well don't show up for tennis lessons and shout at your instructor when they ask if you are right or left handed.
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« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2013, 04:37:45 PM »

I had to sign up for a "health coach" in order to cut a few bucks off my health insurance.  So, when they phoned me and drilled me...one of the last questions was my race and ethnic origin.

Surprising even myself, I gave them a hard time.  I mean, what difference does it make to you where my ancestors are from?  I'm paying you for my health insurance, and my money is just as green, no matter where my grandparents were born.



Cause certain diseases, disorders, syndromes etc. correlate with either genetics or from environment.

It is a now relatively imprecise yet pretty cheap genetic screening.

Check out the many problems "native peoples" have when they find themselves within the average American way of living for examples.

This is all quite true.  (But, as my son once told me when he was 9 or 10 in response to a question I asked him: "It's none of your damned Yankee business!"  All said in his perfect East Midlands [England] accent.  In spite of the "damn", I couldn't stop laughing for 20 minutes!!)

You know you're always free to take your business elsewhere...
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« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2013, 04:48:20 PM »

I had to sign up for a "health coach" in order to cut a few bucks off my health insurance.  So, when they phoned me and drilled me...one of the last questions was my race and ethnic origin.

Surprising even myself, I gave them a hard time.  I mean, what difference does it make to you where my ancestors are from?  I'm paying you for my health insurance, and my money is just as green, no matter where my grandparents were born.




Cause certain diseases, disorders, syndromes etc. correlate with either genetics or from environment.

It is a now relatively imprecise yet pretty cheap genetic screening.

Check out the many problems "native peoples" have when they find themselves within the average American way of living for examples.

This is all quite true.  (But, as my son once told me when he was 9 or 10 in response to a question I asked him: "It's none of your damned Yankee business!"  All said in his perfect East Midlands [England] accent.  In spite of the "damn", I couldn't stop laughing for 20 minutes!!)

Well don't show up for tennis lessons and shout at your instructor when they ask if you are right or left handed.


My tennis days a looooonnnnng gone, I'm afraid.  So, don't worry, I won't  Grin.
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« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2013, 04:49:48 PM »

I had to sign up for a "health coach" in order to cut a few bucks off my health insurance.  So, when they phoned me and drilled me...one of the last questions was my race and ethnic origin.

Surprising even myself, I gave them a hard time.  I mean, what difference does it make to you where my ancestors are from?  I'm paying you for my health insurance, and my money is just as green, no matter where my grandparents were born.



Cause certain diseases, disorders, syndromes etc. correlate with either genetics or from environment.

It is a now relatively imprecise yet pretty cheap genetic screening.

Check out the many problems "native peoples" have when they find themselves within the average American way of living for examples.

This is all quite true.  (But, as my son once told me when he was 9 or 10 in response to a question I asked him: "It's none of your damned Yankee business!"  All said in his perfect East Midlands [England] accent.  In spite of the "damn", I couldn't stop laughing for 20 minutes!!)

You know you're always free to take your business elsewhere...

 Huh

Some folks just don't seem to have much of a sense of humor. Sad  (Or maybe they just don't understand mine  Grin.)
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« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2013, 05:00:38 PM »

I've been to two different doctors recently and was asked to select both Race and Ethnicity.  Race was Caucasian, Ethnicity was Slavic. I filled in the exact Slavic nationalities thinking it was to be used for some genetic information, as pointed out.  But, then I saw the sign in the waiting room that this info was being used by the Government for some new Electronic Health Record.  How it is being used, I don't know, but perhaps they want to make sure some groups aren't under represented.  Now I imagine the person collecting the info for the government thinking "Croatian/CarpathoRussian/...., where the heck?Huh"

I had to sign up for a "health coach" in order to cut a few bucks off my health insurance.  So, when they phoned me and drilled me...one of the last questions was my race and ethnic origin.

Surprising even myself, I gave them a hard time.  I mean, what difference does it make to you where my ancestors are from?  I'm paying you for my health insurance, and my money is just as green, no matter where my grandparents were born.



Cause certain diseases, disorders, syndromes etc. correlate with either genetics or from environment.

It is a now relatively imprecise yet pretty cheap genetic screening.

Check out the many problems "native peoples" have when they find themselves within the average American way of living for examples.

You beat me to it. Insurance is pretty much a straight up probabilities game. The companies are basically banking on the fact that most people don't need aid until after they've paid in a certain amount. So anything which can affect the probabilities of their policyholders needing to cash in is considered in the process. That includes ethnicities.
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« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2013, 08:10:21 PM »

Serbs are Slavs, at least from what I have been told.  I was also told by an old Serbian priest that you cannot be a Serb if you are not Orthodox, and if you are Orthodox, you are a Serb.  So, I guess that according to him, I am a Slav.  His statement was an answer to my question about how his Serbian parish would view a German in their midst.
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« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2013, 08:13:42 PM »

I'm half Chinese but I have an Irish name. I still tick off "Asian" on all those forms because A) maybe affirmative action will kick in for me and B) most people think I'm Asian when they look at me.
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« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2013, 08:23:39 PM »

I have always thought Slavs as White. They aren't by American standards? How "White" is defined?
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« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2013, 11:19:51 PM »

I have always thought Slavs as White. They aren't by American standards? How "White" is defined?

In my experience, it's commonly defined by the person using it.
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« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2013, 12:09:59 AM »

I'm half Chinese but I have an Irish name. I still tick off "Asian" on all those forms because A) maybe affirmative action will kick in for me and B) most people think I'm Asian when they look at me.

You look Guatemalan to me.
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« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2013, 12:14:51 AM »

If you want the Slavs, and they want you, why not?
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« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2013, 12:31:01 AM »

I have always thought Slavs as White. They aren't by American standards? How "White" is defined?

The native peoples of Europe. That's how I define it. Some people include Semites, for reasons I'll never understand.
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« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2013, 02:04:32 AM »

I have always thought Slavs as White. They aren't by American standards? How "White" is defined?

The native peoples of Europe. That's how I define it. Some people include Semites, for reasons I'll never understand.

This is what, in the US, most job applications "optional" diversity survey says:
White: A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East,or North Africa

The one I am filling out today includes south Asians and East Asians under Asian, and has another section for Pacific Islander.  Pakistani is usually Asian though I've seen it listed as White on a city job application a few years ago.

We are sufficiently representing people to on occasion ask something like:
Which Asian: Asian Indian, Cambodian, Chinese, Filipino, Japanese, Korean, Laotian, Vietnamese, Other Asian?
And Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander: Guamanian, Hawaiian, Samoan, Other Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander?

Iranians, Iraqis, Saudis, Moroccans, Libyans, French, Germans, Poles, Bulgarians, Estonians, Finns, and Irish are just as white as the next under most US law. There are a couple court cases in which Arabs or Lebanese in particular were declared white.  This occurred back when white was a privilege for immigration and probably legal protection and rights as a citizen.  Asian Indians were almost considered white in one court case but this did not stick. Asian Indians are considered Caucasians (as an Aryan people) and South Asians. Mexicans were declared white by law some >100 years ago, and this was reportedly to improve the lives of Mexicans/Mexican Americans in the US as part of a trade contract negotiation. Many Mexicans may be white by virtue of higher European blood, though many Latin Americans (including Mexicans) are of sufficiently mixed race/Black/Native American blood to not be white.  Armenians are white by virtue of ability to culturally blend in with whites (education and religion help) and I believe blend with white/Euro people by virtue of genotypes/phenotypes.  This is similar to why Lebanese are white. There was also a movement among Armenians, Persians, and Arabs to not be white but other-write in ethnicity on the US census the other year so as to increase government awareness of the presence of these ethnic groups apart from dominant white America. I hope that such efforts make some inroads to recognizing the diversity of white cultural groups and their experiences in America and better address the needs of these communities.

To the OP: On medical forms, you may be a Slav. Outside of this, I would ask does it or did it much impact your life?  Have  you experienced a Slavic culture? How do you relate to it?
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« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2013, 05:18:37 AM »

Once a Slav always a Slav. Sorry mate.
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« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2013, 10:03:41 AM »

Once a Slav always a Slav. Sorry mate.

But...are all Slavs all Slav?  Does one have to be all Slav to be a Slav?  How much Slav does it take to be a Slav?  Cheesy
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« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2013, 10:14:49 AM »

Are these ethnic issues still important in America? I'm a little suprised that anyone would have guts to ask people of their ethic origin that way. If some company did that here it would cause huge outrage and accusations of Nazism.
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« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2013, 10:26:46 AM »

Are these ethnic issues still important in America? I'm a little suprised that anyone would have guts to ask people of their ethic origin that way. If some company did that here it would cause huge outrage and accusations of Nazism.

I'm not aware that these issues are important to everyday Americans.  In my case, 2 different doctors had forms asking me to identify my race and ethnic origins, and it turned out the Government is collecting this information.  I have no idea how ethnicity relates to the Electronic Health Record.  This is new, before this we were always asked just to identify our race.   
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« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2013, 10:35:46 AM »

In my case, 2 different doctors had forms asking me to identify my race and ethnic origins, and it turned out the Government is collecting this information.

Finland is a promised land of statistics but if some goverment here tried to gather information about ethnic origin of people it would soon be out of office. Finnish state makes statistics about where people come from instead of ethnicity. Only people here who talk about human races are Neo-Nazis.
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« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2013, 11:30:54 AM »

Are these ethnic issues still important in America? I'm a little suprised that anyone would have guts to ask people of their ethic origin that way. If some company did that here it would cause huge outrage and accusations of Nazism.

Sometimes ethnicity is gathered in applications to assist in the hiring process because some employers will intentionally hire minority ethnicities to meet quotas, for diversity, etc. I believe it's to help curb racism and job discrimination, and maybe that's why the government may also collect it.
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« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2013, 11:55:42 AM »

Once a Slav always a Slav. Sorry mate.

But...are all Slavs all Slav?  Does one have to be all Slav to be a Slav?  How much Slav does it take to be a Slav?  Cheesy
Not much evidently: the Czar, hope of the Pan-Slavists, was only 1/8 by descent Slav.
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« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2013, 11:57:17 AM »

I have always thought Slavs as White. They aren't by American standards? How "White" is defined?

The native peoples of Europe. That's how I define it. Some people include Semites, for reasons I'll never understand.

This is what, in the US, most job applications "optional" diversity survey says:
White: A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East,or North Africa

The one I am filling out today includes south Asians and East Asians under Asian, and has another section for Pacific Islander.  Pakistani is usually Asian though I've seen it listed as White on a city job application a few years ago.

We are sufficiently representing people to on occasion ask something like:
Which Asian: Asian Indian, Cambodian, Chinese, Filipino, Japanese, Korean, Laotian, Vietnamese, Other Asian?
And Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander: Guamanian, Hawaiian, Samoan, Other Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander?

Iranians, Iraqis, Saudis, Moroccans, Libyans, French, Germans, Poles, Bulgarians, Estonians, Finns, and Irish are just as white as the next under most US law. There are a couple court cases in which Arabs or Lebanese in particular were declared white.  This occurred back when white was a privilege for immigration and probably legal protection and rights as a citizen.  Asian Indians were almost considered white in one court case but this did not stick. Asian Indians are considered Caucasians (as an Aryan people) and South Asians. Mexicans were declared white by law some >100 years ago, and this was reportedly to improve the lives of Mexicans/Mexican Americans in the US as part of a trade contract negotiation. Many Mexicans may be white by virtue of higher European blood, though many Latin Americans (including Mexicans) are of sufficiently mixed race/Black/Native American blood to not be white.  Armenians are white by virtue of ability to culturally blend in with whites (education and religion help) and I believe blend with white/Euro people by virtue of genotypes/phenotypes.  This is similar to why Lebanese are white. There was also a movement among Armenians, Persians, and Arabs to not be white but other-write in ethnicity on the US census the other year so as to increase government awareness of the presence of these ethnic groups apart from dominant white America. I hope that such efforts make some inroads to recognizing the diversity of white cultural groups and their experiences in America and better address the needs of these communities.

To the OP: On medical forms, you may be a Slav. Outside of this, I would ask does it or did it much impact your life?  Have  you experienced a Slavic culture? How do you relate to it?
Btw, to put this in perspective, in the US someone from Spain isn't Hispanic.
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« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2013, 12:04:40 PM »

I have always thought Slavs as White. They aren't by American standards? How "White" is defined?

The native peoples of Europe. That's how I define it. Some people include Semites, for reasons I'll never understand.

This is what, in the US, most job applications "optional" diversity survey says:
White: A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East,or North Africa

The one I am filling out today includes south Asians and East Asians under Asian, and has another section for Pacific Islander.  Pakistani is usually Asian though I've seen it listed as White on a city job application a few years ago.

We are sufficiently representing people to on occasion ask something like:
Which Asian: Asian Indian, Cambodian, Chinese, Filipino, Japanese, Korean, Laotian, Vietnamese, Other Asian?
And Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander: Guamanian, Hawaiian, Samoan, Other Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander?

Iranians, Iraqis, Saudis, Moroccans, Libyans, French, Germans, Poles, Bulgarians, Estonians, Finns, and Irish are just as white as the next under most US law. There are a couple court cases in which Arabs or Lebanese in particular were declared white.  This occurred back when white was a privilege for immigration and probably legal protection and rights as a citizen.  Asian Indians were almost considered white in one court case but this did not stick. Asian Indians are considered Caucasians (as an Aryan people) and South Asians. Mexicans were declared white by law some >100 years ago, and this was reportedly to improve the lives of Mexicans/Mexican Americans in the US as part of a trade contract negotiation. Many Mexicans may be white by virtue of higher European blood, though many Latin Americans (including Mexicans) are of sufficiently mixed race/Black/Native American blood to not be white.  Armenians are white by virtue of ability to culturally blend in with whites (education and religion help) and I believe blend with white/Euro people by virtue of genotypes/phenotypes.  This is similar to why Lebanese are white. There was also a movement among Armenians, Persians, and Arabs to not be white but other-write in ethnicity on the US census the other year so as to increase government awareness of the presence of these ethnic groups apart from dominant white America. I hope that such efforts make some inroads to recognizing the diversity of white cultural groups and their experiences in America and better address the needs of these communities.

To the OP: On medical forms, you may be a Slav. Outside of this, I would ask does it or did it much impact your life?  Have  you experienced a Slavic culture? How do you relate to it?
Btw, to put this in perspective, in the US someone from Spain isn't Hispanic.

Tell that to the folks I know who claim to be Hispanic rather than Latino because they identify more with Spain than they do with the Amerindians.
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« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2013, 12:28:20 PM »

Once a Slav always a Slav. Sorry mate.

But...are all Slavs all Slav?  Does one have to be all Slav to be a Slav?  How much Slav does it take to be a Slav?  Cheesy
Not much evidently: the Czar, hope of the Pan-Slavists, was only 1/8 by descent Slav.

I'm not exactly a Monarchist or a Tsarist but after reading about too many wars between various national groups having a ruler born of multicultural familyline does sound a quite symphatetic idea.
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« Reply #35 on: February 20, 2013, 01:19:56 PM »

Once a Slav always a Slav. Sorry mate.

But...are all Slavs all Slav?  Does one have to be all Slav to be a Slav?  How much Slav does it take to be a Slav?  Cheesy
Not much evidently: the Czar, hope of the Pan-Slavists, was only 1/8 by descent Slav.

I'm not exactly a Monarchist or a Tsarist but after reading about too many wars between various national groups having a ruler born of multicultural familyline does sound a quite symphatetic idea.

No, it's not. I'm not Russian and do not want to be one.
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« Reply #36 on: February 20, 2013, 01:52:53 PM »

Once a Slav always a Slav. Sorry mate.

But...are all Slavs all Slav?  Does one have to be all Slav to be a Slav?  How much Slav does it take to be a Slav?  Cheesy
Not much evidently: the Czar, hope of the Pan-Slavists, was only 1/8 by descent Slav.

I'm not exactly a Monarchist or a Tsarist but after reading about too many wars between various national groups having a ruler born of multicultural familyline does sound a quite symphatetic idea.

No, it's not. I'm not Russian and do not want to be one.

That's exactly the point. People with differing cultural identities but with one multicultural ruler. Of course it wasn't like that in practice but the theoretical idea is quite nice. Imagine all the people etc.
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« Reply #37 on: February 20, 2013, 02:30:17 PM »

I have always thought Slavs as White. They aren't by American standards? How "White" is defined?

The native peoples of Europe. That's how I define it. Some people include Semites, for reasons I'll never understand.

This is what, in the US, most job applications "optional" diversity survey says:
White: A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East,or North Africa

The one I am filling out today includes south Asians and East Asians under Asian, and has another section for Pacific Islander.  Pakistani is usually Asian though I've seen it listed as White on a city job application a few years ago.

We are sufficiently representing people to on occasion ask something like:
Which Asian: Asian Indian, Cambodian, Chinese, Filipino, Japanese, Korean, Laotian, Vietnamese, Other Asian?
And Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander: Guamanian, Hawaiian, Samoan, Other Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander?

Iranians, Iraqis, Saudis, Moroccans, Libyans, French, Germans, Poles, Bulgarians, Estonians, Finns, and Irish are just as white as the next under most US law. There are a couple court cases in which Arabs or Lebanese in particular were declared white.  This occurred back when white was a privilege for immigration and probably legal protection and rights as a citizen.  Asian Indians were almost considered white in one court case but this did not stick. Asian Indians are considered Caucasians (as an Aryan people) and South Asians. Mexicans were declared white by law some >100 years ago, and this was reportedly to improve the lives of Mexicans/Mexican Americans in the US as part of a trade contract negotiation. Many Mexicans may be white by virtue of higher European blood, though many Latin Americans (including Mexicans) are of sufficiently mixed race/Black/Native American blood to not be white.  Armenians are white by virtue of ability to culturally blend in with whites (education and religion help) and I believe blend with white/Euro people by virtue of genotypes/phenotypes.  This is similar to why Lebanese are white. There was also a movement among Armenians, Persians, and Arabs to not be white but other-write in ethnicity on the US census the other year so as to increase government awareness of the presence of these ethnic groups apart from dominant white America. I hope that such efforts make some inroads to recognizing the diversity of white cultural groups and their experiences in America and better address the needs of these communities.

To the OP: On medical forms, you may be a Slav. Outside of this, I would ask does it or did it much impact your life?  Have  you experienced a Slavic culture? How do you relate to it?
Btw, to put this in perspective, in the US someone from Spain isn't Hispanic.

And someone from Latium is not Latin.
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« Reply #38 on: February 21, 2013, 10:15:25 AM »

Are these ethnic issues still important in America? I'm a little suprised that anyone would have guts to ask people of their ethic origin that way. If some company did that here it would cause huge outrage and accusations of Nazism.

It depends.  Some people believe that the "inferior races", usually consisting of blacks, hispanics, and women are incapable of succeeding on their own merits and needs to be helped along by Uncle Sam until which point that they are sufficiently human to do so.

Others of us believe that everyone is equal and should rise or fall based on his/her own merits.  These people usually get shouted down because all some people need to do is claim to be inferior and they get free cash and prizes.
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« Reply #39 on: February 21, 2013, 10:47:47 AM »

I have always thought Slavs as White. They aren't by American standards? How "White" is defined?

The native peoples of Europe. That's how I define it. Some people include Semites, for reasons I'll never understand.

This is what, in the US, most job applications "optional" diversity survey says:
White: A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East,or North Africa

The one I am filling out today includes south Asians and East Asians under Asian, and has another section for Pacific Islander.  Pakistani is usually Asian though I've seen it listed as White on a city job application a few years ago.

We are sufficiently representing people to on occasion ask something like:
Which Asian: Asian Indian, Cambodian, Chinese, Filipino, Japanese, Korean, Laotian, Vietnamese, Other Asian?
And Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander: Guamanian, Hawaiian, Samoan, Other Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander?

Iranians, Iraqis, Saudis, Moroccans, Libyans, French, Germans, Poles, Bulgarians, Estonians, Finns, and Irish are just as white as the next under most US law. There are a couple court cases in which Arabs or Lebanese in particular were declared white.  This occurred back when white was a privilege for immigration and probably legal protection and rights as a citizen.  Asian Indians were almost considered white in one court case but this did not stick. Asian Indians are considered Caucasians (as an Aryan people) and South Asians. Mexicans were declared white by law some >100 years ago, and this was reportedly to improve the lives of Mexicans/Mexican Americans in the US as part of a trade contract negotiation. Many Mexicans may be white by virtue of higher European blood, though many Latin Americans (including Mexicans) are of sufficiently mixed race/Black/Native American blood to not be white.  Armenians are white by virtue of ability to culturally blend in with whites (education and religion help) and I believe blend with white/Euro people by virtue of genotypes/phenotypes.  This is similar to why Lebanese are white. There was also a movement among Armenians, Persians, and Arabs to not be white but other-write in ethnicity on the US census the other year so as to increase government awareness of the presence of these ethnic groups apart from dominant white America. I hope that such efforts make some inroads to recognizing the diversity of white cultural groups and their experiences in America and better address the needs of these communities.

To the OP: On medical forms, you may be a Slav. Outside of this, I would ask does it or did it much impact your life?  Have  you experienced a Slavic culture? How do you relate to it?
Btw, to put this in perspective, in the US someone from Spain isn't Hispanic.

And someone from Latium is not Latin.
That too.  Reminds me of a joke "God punished the Romans for killing His Son by making them Italians."
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A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
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If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
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                           and both come out of your mouth
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« Reply #40 on: February 21, 2013, 10:54:02 AM »

I have always thought Slavs as White. They aren't by American standards? How "White" is defined?

The native peoples of Europe. That's how I define it. Some people include Semites, for reasons I'll never understand.

This is what, in the US, most job applications "optional" diversity survey says:
White: A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East,or North Africa

The one I am filling out today includes south Asians and East Asians under Asian, and has another section for Pacific Islander.  Pakistani is usually Asian though I've seen it listed as White on a city job application a few years ago.

We are sufficiently representing people to on occasion ask something like:
Which Asian: Asian Indian, Cambodian, Chinese, Filipino, Japanese, Korean, Laotian, Vietnamese, Other Asian?
And Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander: Guamanian, Hawaiian, Samoan, Other Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander?

Iranians, Iraqis, Saudis, Moroccans, Libyans, French, Germans, Poles, Bulgarians, Estonians, Finns, and Irish are just as white as the next under most US law. There are a couple court cases in which Arabs or Lebanese in particular were declared white.  This occurred back when white was a privilege for immigration and probably legal protection and rights as a citizen.  Asian Indians were almost considered white in one court case but this did not stick. Asian Indians are considered Caucasians (as an Aryan people) and South Asians. Mexicans were declared white by law some >100 years ago, and this was reportedly to improve the lives of Mexicans/Mexican Americans in the US as part of a trade contract negotiation. Many Mexicans may be white by virtue of higher European blood, though many Latin Americans (including Mexicans) are of sufficiently mixed race/Black/Native American blood to not be white.  Armenians are white by virtue of ability to culturally blend in with whites (education and religion help) and I believe blend with white/Euro people by virtue of genotypes/phenotypes.  This is similar to why Lebanese are white. There was also a movement among Armenians, Persians, and Arabs to not be white but other-write in ethnicity on the US census the other year so as to increase government awareness of the presence of these ethnic groups apart from dominant white America. I hope that such efforts make some inroads to recognizing the diversity of white cultural groups and their experiences in America and better address the needs of these communities.

To the OP: On medical forms, you may be a Slav. Outside of this, I would ask does it or did it much impact your life?  Have  you experienced a Slavic culture? How do you relate to it?
Btw, to put this in perspective, in the US someone from Spain isn't Hispanic.

Tell that to the folks I know who claim to be Hispanic rather than Latino because they identify more with Spain than they do with the Amerindians.
LOL. The Criollos still walk among us.  Now they have to worry more about the Gringos than the Peninsulares.
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« Reply #41 on: February 22, 2013, 04:48:08 AM »

This thread is funny, we romanians had some Kings who were not ethnic romanians and were very good. The german kings as Carol I or Ferdinand, without whom we would not have had Greater Romania and Transylvanian romanians would be eating mamaliga in hungarian.

We had Vasile Lupu of albanian descent who favored romanian language in school and Church in Moldova.

The bulgarians had the Asen brother who made the 2nd bulgarian Empire, and were certainly of vlach-romanian descent(http://groznijat.tripod.com/bulgar/wolff.html)

Hungarian got Ioan de Hunedoara an ethnic romanian as one of their greatest heroes. And St nicholas II of Russia was of german, danish, and russian descent.

So the ethnic origin of the King does not really matter. Europeans are so closed on an ethnic level that what really matters then is the language, culture, and self identification of the King, his sense of duty, loyalty and skills.

Baba Novak was half serb, half romanian, was he slavic or not? It didn't matter to him, he fought in Mihail Viteazul(romanian) army, very bravely and gave hard times to the faithless ottomans and to the hungarians. There is a monument paying hommage to him in Cluj Napoca:




We had romanian traitors in the clergy such as Satanasie(uniate) and great romanian heroes in the clergy of foreign descent such as St Antim of Iberia or St Visarion Sarai:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYA3iZNZJmA

So if the author of the post wants to be slavic, that is up to you Smiley

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« Reply #42 on: February 23, 2013, 02:40:32 PM »

 I have heard that the term "Slav" came from what the Romans referred to those people  brought in from outside the Empire as slaves.
 So Slav is really a derivitive  from the word slave.

Any truth in this?
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« Reply #43 on: February 23, 2013, 02:52:37 PM »

I have heard that the term "Slav" came from what the Romans referred to those people  brought in from outside the Empire as slaves.
 So Slav is really a derivitive  from the word slave.

Any truth in this?

Sort of, but it's backwards. Slave comes from Slav. And I'm pretty sure it was Scandinavians, not Romans.
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« Reply #44 on: February 23, 2013, 03:07:00 PM »

I have heard that the term "Slav" came from what the Romans referred to those people  brought in from outside the Empire as slaves.
 So Slav is really a derivitive  from the word slave.

Any truth in this?
Quote

Slav Look up Slav at Dictionary.com
    late 14c., Sclave, from Medieval Latin Sclavus (c.800), from Byzantine Greek Sklabos (c.580), from Old Church Slavonic Sloveninu "a Slav," probably related to slovo "word, speech," which suggests the name originally meant member of a speech community (cf. Old Church Slavonic Nemici "Germans," related to nemu "dumb;" and cf. Old English þeode, which meant both "race" and "language").
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Slav

And

Quote


The Slavic autonym Slověninъ is usually considered a derivation from slovo "word," originally denoting "people who speak (the same language)," i.e. people who understand each other, in contrast to the Slavic word denoting "foreign people" – němci, meaning "mumbling, murmuring people" (from Slavic němъ – "mumbling, mute"). The latter word may be the derivation of words to denote German/Germanic people in many later Slavic languages: e.g., Czech Němec, Slovak Nemec, Slovene Nemec, Belarusian, Russian and Bulgarian Немец, Serbian Немац, Serbian, Bosnian and Croatian Nijemac, Polish Niemiec, Ukrainian Німець, etc.,[31] but another theory states that rather these words are derived from the name of the Nemetes tribe,[32][33] which is derived from the Celtic root nemeto-.[34][35]

The English word Slav is derived from the Middle English word sclave, which was borrowed from Medieval Latin sclavus "slave,"[36] itself a borrowing and Byzantine Greek σκλάβος sklábos "slave," which was in turn apparently derived from a misunderstanding of the Slavic autonym (denoting a speaker of their own languages). The Byzantine term Sklavinoi was loaned into Arabic as Saqaliba by medieval Arab historiographers.[citation needed] However, the origin of this word is disputed.[37][38]

Alternative proposals for the etymology of Slověninъ propounded by some scholars enjoy much less support. B.P. Lozinski argues that the word slava once had the meaning of worshipper, in this context meaning "practicer of a common Slavic religion," and from that evolved into an ethnonym.[39] S.B. Bernstein speculates that it derives from a reconstructed Proto-Indo-European *(s)lawos, cognate to Ancient Greek λαός laós "population, people," which itself has no commonly accepted etymology.[40] Meanwhile others have pointed out that the suffix -enin indicates a man from a certain place, which in this case should be a place called Slova or Slava, possibly a river name. The Old East Slavic Slavuta for the Dnieper River was argued by Henrich Bartek (1907–1986) to be derived from slova and also the origin of Slovene.[41]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavs
« Last Edit: February 23, 2013, 03:10:26 PM by J Michael » Logged

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« Reply #45 on: February 23, 2013, 03:08:35 PM »

I have heard that the term "Slav" came from what the Romans referred to those people  brought in from outside the Empire as slaves.
 So Slav is really a derivitive  from the word slave.

Any truth in this?
Quote

Slav Look up Slav at Dictionary.com
    late 14c., Sclave, from Medieval Latin Sclavus (c.800), from Byzantine Greek Sklabos (c.580), from Old Church Slavonic Sloveninu "a Slav," probably related to slovo "word, speech," which suggests the name originally meant member of a speech community (cf. Old Church Slavonic Nemici "Germans," related to nemu "dumb;" and cf. Old English þeode, which meant both "race" and "language").
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Slav
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« Reply #46 on: February 23, 2013, 03:12:20 PM »

I have heard that the term "Slav" came from what the Romans referred to those people  brought in from outside the Empire as slaves.
 So Slav is really a derivitive  from the word slave.

Any truth in this?
Quote

Slav Look up Slav at Dictionary.com
    late 14c., Sclave, from Medieval Latin Sclavus (c.800), from Byzantine Greek Sklabos (c.580), from Old Church Slavonic Sloveninu "a Slav," probably related to slovo "word, speech," which suggests the name originally meant member of a speech community (cf. Old Church Slavonic Nemici "Germans," related to nemu "dumb;" and cf. Old English þeode, which meant both "race" and "language").
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Slav
ah, you conveniently left this part out JMichael.

Identical with the -slav in personal names (e.g. Russian Miroslav, literally "peaceful fame;" Mstislav "vengeful fame;" Jaroslav "famed for fury;" Czech Bohuslav "God's glory;" and cf. Wenceslas). Spelled Slave c.1788-1866, influenced by French and German Slave.
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« Reply #47 on: February 23, 2013, 03:44:51 PM »

I have heard that the term "Slav" came from what the Romans referred to those people  brought in from outside the Empire as slaves.
 So Slav is really a derivitive  from the word slave.

Any truth in this?
Quote

Slav Look up Slav at Dictionary.com
    late 14c., Sclave, from Medieval Latin Sclavus (c.800), from Byzantine Greek Sklabos (c.580), from Old Church Slavonic Sloveninu "a Slav," probably related to slovo "word, speech," which suggests the name originally meant member of a speech community (cf. Old Church Slavonic Nemici "Germans," related to nemu "dumb;" and cf. Old English þeode, which meant both "race" and "language").
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Slav
ah, you conveniently left this part out JMichael.

Identical with the -slav in personal names (e.g. Russian Miroslav, literally "peaceful fame;" Mstislav "vengeful fame;" Jaroslav "famed for fury;" Czech Bohuslav "God's glory;" and cf. Wenceslas). Spelled Slave c.1788-1866, influenced by French and German Slave.


Actually, Charles Martel, I left it out inconveniently.  Grin
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« Reply #48 on: February 23, 2013, 04:01:03 PM »

In my case, 2 different doctors had forms asking me to identify my race and ethnic origins, and it turned out the Government is collecting this information.



Was that in a government facility, like a Veterans hospital or something?  I don't recall being asked detailed information about ethnicity by any doctor, though there was one family practice doctor several years ago, who was filling in for the regular doctor, and he asked quite detailed information about ethnicity, including all sorts of questions about my religion and Orthodoxy.  Seems more like it was his personal interest.   Or maybe he just typed in: "RELIGIOUS NUTCAKE!" in my file.   lol

Finland is a promised land of statistics but if some goverment here tried to gather information about ethnic origin of people it would soon be out of office. Finnish state makes statistics about where people come from instead of ethnicity. Only people here who talk about human races are Neo-Nazis.

Native Americans are the only people required to show actual blood lineage to prove that they are Native to these lands.  There is a cut-off point when "blood" becomes so dilute that they can no longer carry paperwork proving they are Native American, and are no longer eligible for special government benefits and so forth.  There were treaties between the existing people and the people who came from Europe and settled, some were honored, some not.

No one else is required to do that, so what is the point unless you want special assistance due to minority status, like getting into jobs or competitive education programs because there are quotas to fill.   There are also those types of programs for the handicapped too.  There is probably a more politically correct term for handicapped now, I just can't think of it at the moment.  Other people have other means of getting preferential treatment, like Masons, or secret groups inside unions, Mormons giving preference to people from their church, are just a few I've seen firsthand.    

And there have been actual internment of people based on ethnicity in the United States, such as Germans during the World Wars, and Italians and Japanese during WWII.  They were rounded up and held in camps because they weren't trusted.  

Just as a historical footnote, the man who was assigned by the government to round up Japanese Americans for internment was the same man who later was given orders from the President's desk to find a way for the government to buy up Native American land through less than honorable means.  The memo from the President's desk was something to the effect of "Find Myer [Dillon S. Myer] I have a ****** *** job for him to do."  

I noticed some five or so years ago the government under Homeland Security was still spending money on building camps, the big contractors openly state that they've been awarded the projects, and I don't know what or who they are for.  It could be anyone, depending on the political climate of the time.

The long way round to Tikhon of Colorado, question, is that we should want to be a member of the body of Christ rather than check off three hundred different boxes on a form, and demand the government have a box for that too Smiley

If people can demand that there be a Klingon interpreter at the courthouse....

edit to correct OP name
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« Reply #49 on: February 23, 2013, 04:36:56 PM »

In my case, 2 different doctors had forms asking me to identify my race and ethnic origins, and it turned out the Government is collecting this information.



Was that in a government facility, like a Veterans hospital or something?  I don't recall being asked detailed information about ethnicity by any doctor, though there was one family practice doctor several years ago, who was filling in for the regular doctor, and he asked quite detailed information about ethnicity, including all sorts of questions about my religion and Orthodoxy.  Seems more like it was his personal interest.   Or maybe he just typed in: "RELIGIOUS NUTCAKE!" in my file.   lol

Finland is a promised land of statistics but if some goverment here tried to gather information about ethnic origin of people it would soon be out of office. Finnish state makes statistics about where people come from instead of ethnicity. Only people here who talk about human races are Neo-Nazis.

Native Americans are the only people required to show actual blood lineage to prove that they are Native to these lands.  There is a cut-off point when "blood" becomes so dilute that they can no longer carry paperwork proving they are Native American, and are no longer eligible for special government benefits and so forth.  There were treaties between the existing people and the people who came from Europe and settled, some were honored, some not.

No one else is required to do that, so what is the point unless you want special assistance due to minority status, like getting into jobs or competitive education programs because there are quotas to fill.   There are also those types of programs for the handicapped too.  There is probably a more politically correct term for handicapped now, I just can't think of it at the moment.  Other people have other means of getting preferential treatment, like Masons, or secret groups inside unions, Mormons giving preference to people from their church, are just a few I've seen firsthand.    

And there have been actual internment of people based on ethnicity in the United States, such as Germans during the World Wars, and Italians and Japanese during WWII.  They were rounded up and held in camps because they weren't trusted.  

Just as a historical footnote, the man who was assigned by the government to round up Japanese Americans for internment was the same man who later was given orders from the President's desk to find a way for the government to buy up Native American land through less than honorable means.  The memo from the President's desk was something to the effect of "Find Myer [Dillon S. Myer] I have a ****** *** job for him to do."  

I noticed some five or so years ago the government under Homeland Security was still spending money on building camps, the big contractors openly state that they've been awarded the projects, and I don't know what or who they are for.  It could be anyone, depending on the political climate of the time.

The long way round to Tikhon of Colorado, question, is that we should want to be a member of the body of Christ rather than check off three hundred different boxes on a form, and demand the government have a box for that too Smiley

If people can demand that there be a Klingon interpreter at the courthouse....

edit to correct OP name

Mark 12:17 "And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's."
« Last Edit: February 23, 2013, 04:38:52 PM by J Michael » Logged

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« Reply #50 on: February 23, 2013, 05:04:17 PM »


Mark 12:17 "And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's."


Sorry, not getting your point.  Do you think your body belongs to Caesar.  In the world not of it. In Christ no Greek nor Jew male nor female.
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« Reply #51 on: February 23, 2013, 06:02:26 PM »

Technically speaking, yes you are by heritage. However, that doesn't mean you're actually a different race- ethnic group  and race are very different. For example, I'm technically a half-English American with dual citizenship, and a half-French, half-Irish ancestry. But despite my ethnicity, (or because of it)  I'm still counted as very Caucasian.
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« Reply #52 on: February 23, 2013, 07:34:24 PM »

Once a Slav always a Slav. Sorry mate.

Does that go backwards in time? Here is an anecdote from a few decades ago. I was coordinating some joint activities with Egyptian officers for a field exercise. Thet kept looking at me and talking among themselves. Finally, one of them told me "you are Saudi and you know Arabic." I protested that I was not Saudi, that I was of Macedono-Bulgrain descent, and did not know Arabic. I could not persuade them, so when they consulted with each other, they made sure that they were well beyond my hearing. Afterwards, I got to thinking: I did have the facial characteristics of a Bedouin (nose, lips and chin), but how did that happen? Possible answer: the Arab raids into the Balkans in the Seventh Century and a resultant gene that survived across the centuries.

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« Reply #53 on: February 23, 2013, 07:38:46 PM »

Once a Slav always a Slav. Sorry mate.

But...are all Slavs all Slav?  Does one have to be all Slav to be a Slav?  How much Slav does it take to be a Slav?  Cheesy
Not much evidently: the Czar, hope of the Pan-Slavists, was only 1/8 by descent Slav.

I'm not exactly a Monarchist or a Tsarist but after reading about too many wars between various national groups having a ruler born of multicultural familyline does sound a quite symphatetic idea.

No, it's not. I'm not Russian and do not want to be one.

But, aren't you Belorussian?
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« Reply #54 on: February 23, 2013, 08:36:27 PM »


Mark 12:17 "And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's."


Sorry, not getting your point.  Do you think your body belongs to Caesar.  In the world not of it. In Christ no Greek nor Jew male nor female.

Uh...no, I don't.  You really didn't get my point.  Sorry for my lack of clarity.

It's not an either/or proposition.  You can be a member (or want to be a member) of the Body of Christ AND check off a bunch of boxes for the gummint.  Doing so doesn't affect your membership in any way, shape, or form.  There's no requirement that you must like doing so, though, or feel that it's not some kind of intrusion on your privacy.
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« Reply #55 on: February 24, 2013, 03:46:53 AM »


Mark 12:17 "And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's."


Sorry, not getting your point.  Do you think your body belongs to Caesar.  In the world not of it. In Christ no Greek nor Jew male nor female.

Uh...no, I don't.  You really didn't get my point.  Sorry for my lack of clarity.

It's not an either/or proposition.  You can be a member (or want to be a member) of the Body of Christ AND check off a bunch of boxes for the gummint.  Doing so doesn't affect your membership in any way, shape, or form.  There's no requirement that you must like doing so, though, or feel that it's not some kind of intrusion on your privacy.

 Smiley  Ah, how funny.  Earlier on this thread someone didn't get your sense of humour, and it seems maybe you didn't get mine either.   I was sort of joking with Tikhon to insist the government add yet another box to check off in an every growing list of boxes and ethnic identities, that would greatly simplify and streamline the process.   Of course we've been pretty much guaranteed, were that line item to exist on the ethnicity chart, that we will be hated for checking it.   It also harks back to the old millet system.

Okay, I'm done trying to be funny.  Don't worry!  I'll keep my day job Smiley
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« Reply #56 on: February 24, 2013, 04:03:35 AM »

Hi, everyone.  Sorry I haven't been round to this thread to check up on the conversation going on.

I've just marked "white."

Let me explain without this turning into a rant...

If you tick "Slavic," you're required to submit an essay about your Slovenian heritage.  I should hope that this university knows that the Slovenes aren't the only Slavs.

Is outrage! 
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« Reply #57 on: February 24, 2013, 04:20:08 AM »

Hi, everyone.  Sorry I haven't been round to this thread to check up on the conversation going on.

I've just marked "white."

Let me explain without this turning into a rant...

If you tick "Slavic," you're required to submit an essay about your Slovenian heritage.  I should hope that this university knows that the Slovenes aren't the only Slavs.

Is outrage! 

Well, hopefully they won't make you write an essay about the Caucasus either.
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« Reply #58 on: February 24, 2013, 04:20:36 AM »

Hi, everyone.  Sorry I haven't been round to this thread to check up on the conversation going on.

I've just marked "white."

Let me explain without this turning into a rant...

If you tick "Slavic," you're required to submit an essay about your Slovenian heritage.  I should hope that this university knows that the Slovenes aren't the only Slavs.

Is outrage! 

Well, hopefully they won't make you write an essay about the Caucasus either.
laugh
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« Reply #59 on: February 24, 2013, 06:47:10 AM »

Once a Slav always a Slav. Sorry mate.

Does that go backwards in time? Here is an anecdote from a few decades ago. I was coordinating some joint activities with Egyptian officers for a field exercise. Thet kept looking at me and talking among themselves. Finally, one of them told me "you are Saudi and you know Arabic." I protested that I was not Saudi, that I was of Macedono-Bulgrain descent, and did not know Arabic. I could not persuade them, so when they consulted with each other, they made sure that they were well beyond my hearing. Afterwards, I got to thinking: I did have the facial characteristics of a Bedouin (nose, lips and chin), but how did that happen? Possible answer: the Arab raids into the Balkans in the Seventh Century and a resultant gene that survived across the centuries.


I'm sure there were a few Arabs in that invading Ottoman Army.


I'm half-Sicilian, I've been mistaken for a Greek or even Lebonese plenty of times.

Sicily is one of the most conquered parts of Europe, bloodlines can be very diverse. I even know some blonde, blue-eyed Sicilians, probably descended from the Normans when they invaded centuries ago. no one can really tell what's exactly in their lineage only things that are blatantly obvious like ethnic  genetics makeup and language.
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« Reply #60 on: February 24, 2013, 06:48:44 AM »

I have heard that the term "Slav" came from what the Romans referred to those people  brought in from outside the Empire as slaves.
 So Slav is really a derivitive  from the word slave.

Any truth in this?
Quote

Slav Look up Slav at Dictionary.com
    late 14c., Sclave, from Medieval Latin Sclavus (c.800), from Byzantine Greek Sklabos (c.580), from Old Church Slavonic Sloveninu "a Slav," probably related to slovo "word, speech," which suggests the name originally meant member of a speech community (cf. Old Church Slavonic Nemici "Germans," related to nemu "dumb;" and cf. Old English þeode, which meant both "race" and "language").
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Slav
ah, you conveniently left this part out JMichael.

Identical with the -slav in personal names (e.g. Russian Miroslav, literally "peaceful fame;" Mstislav "vengeful fame;" Jaroslav "famed for fury;" Czech Bohuslav "God's glory;" and cf. Wenceslas). Spelled Slave c.1788-1866, influenced by French and German Slave.


Actually, Charles Martel, I left it out inconveniently.  Grin
Ah, I see that. Wink
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« Reply #61 on: March 17, 2013, 04:42:59 AM »

Slav can also mean glory as in pravoslavie or true glory or true fame.  Similiar to what I was told Ortho Doxa means in Greek.  You live in America, be what you want.  Do you like the Polish?   Do you have attachment to the pretzels and beer?  The Marxist philosph Eric Hobsbawm say that ethnicity is self ascribed. So ascribe yourself!  Being ascribed by others is pointless.  I make a point for you.  Next door is a people who speak like Bulgarians, have cultural like Bulgarians, have the same History as Bulgarians , they even shake their head from side to say to say yes like Bulgarians, but since the end of WWII they call themselves Macedonians and Slavs, while at the same time accusing us of being Mongols and Turks!  Of course the Greeks don't agree and call them FYROM.  My own family is a good point.  We are from little village in what was Ottoman Empir called Kukush (Kilkitsi in Turkish, Kilkis in Greek)  It is now after a short stay in Bulgaria, in Greece.  Like the Mexicanitsi say, I didn't cross the border,the border crossed me, na li?  Kukush is the home of great revolutionary hero Gotse Deltchev also.  Our family name is Palev, during the Balkan wars, some of us went to Bulgaria to escape the Turks and the Greeks and the Serbians.  Those that couldn't escape Kuskush, now Kilkkis, were renamed Palou by the Greeks, (they even changed the headstones in the grobishta) who say that there are no slavs living in Greece, only slavophone Greeks; the ones who ended up in Serbian controlled Macedonia were renamed Palevic and rechristened Serbs.  These poor folks were again renamed Palevsky after WWII and are now proud Macedonians.  While the rest of us are Palev and Bulgarian, nore or less.  Same family, same genealogy, same history, same village, three different nationalities.  Four if you count the Osmanli.  So pick one or pick none.
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« Reply #62 on: March 17, 2013, 10:16:01 AM »

Nice family story.

(no sarcasm intended)

On the other hand I do not believe in unlimited self-ascribing of nationality. If you don't have some roots, if you are not related to a nationality in any way, if you hadn't been brought up in it ascribing some random one found on the Internet would be just LARP-ing.
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« Reply #63 on: March 24, 2013, 08:18:02 PM »

Slav can also mean glory as in pravoslavie or true glory or true fame.  Similiar to what I was told Ortho Doxa means in Greek.  You live in America, be what you want.  Do you like the Polish?   Do you have attachment to the pretzels and beer?  The Marxist philosph Eric Hobsbawm say that ethnicity is self ascribed. So ascribe yourself!  Being ascribed by others is pointless.  I make a point for you.  Next door is a people who speak like Bulgarians, have cultural like Bulgarians, have the same History as Bulgarians , they even shake their head from side to say to say yes like Bulgarians, but since the end of WWII they call themselves Macedonians and Slavs, while at the same time accusing us of being Mongols and Turks!  Of course the Greeks don't agree and call them FYROM.  My own family is a good point.  We are from little village in what was Ottoman Empir called Kukush (Kilkitsi in Turkish, Kilkis in Greek)  It is now after a short stay in Bulgaria, in Greece.  Like the Mexicanitsi say, I didn't cross the border,the border crossed me, na li?  Kukush is the home of great revolutionary hero Gotse Deltchev also.  Our family name is Palev, during the Balkan wars, some of us went to Bulgaria to escape the Turks and the Greeks and the Serbians.  Those that couldn't escape Kuskush, now Kilkkis, were renamed Palou by the Greeks, (they even changed the headstones in the grobishta) who say that there are no slavs living in Greece, only slavophone Greeks; the ones who ended up in Serbian controlled Macedonia were renamed Palevic and rechristened Serbs.  These poor folks were again renamed Palevsky after WWII and are now proud Macedonians.  While the rest of us are Palev and Bulgarian, nore or less.  Same family, same genealogy, same history, same village, three different nationalities.  Four if you count the Osmanli.  So pick one or pick none.

This guy seriously needs to post a lot more.
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« Reply #64 on: March 27, 2013, 08:48:22 AM »

Slav can also mean glory as in pravoslavie or true glory or true fame.  Similiar to what I was told Ortho Doxa means in Greek.  You live in America, be what you want.  Do you like the Polish?   Do you have attachment to the pretzels and beer?  The Marxist philosph Eric Hobsbawm say that ethnicity is self ascribed. So ascribe yourself!  Being ascribed by others is pointless.  I make a point for you.  Next door is a people who speak like Bulgarians, have cultural like Bulgarians, have the same History as Bulgarians , they even shake their head from side to say to say yes like Bulgarians, but since the end of WWII they call themselves Macedonians and Slavs, while at the same time accusing us of being Mongols and Turks!  Of course the Greeks don't agree and call them FYROM.  My own family is a good point.  We are from little village in what was Ottoman Empir called Kukush (Kilkitsi in Turkish, Kilkis in Greek)  It is now after a short stay in Bulgaria, in Greece.  Like the Mexicanitsi say, I didn't cross the border,the border crossed me, na li?  Kukush is the home of great revolutionary hero Gotse Deltchev also.  Our family name is Palev, during the Balkan wars, some of us went to Bulgaria to escape the Turks and the Greeks and the Serbians.  Those that couldn't escape Kuskush, now Kilkkis, were renamed Palou by the Greeks, (they even changed the headstones in the grobishta) who say that there are no slavs living in Greece, only slavophone Greeks; the ones who ended up in Serbian controlled Macedonia were renamed Palevic and rechristened Serbs.  These poor folks were again renamed Palevsky after WWII and are now proud Macedonians.  While the rest of us are Palev and Bulgarian, nore or less.  Same family, same genealogy, same history, same village, three different nationalities.  Four if you count the Osmanli.  So pick one or pick none.

This guy seriously needs to post a lot more.

Yes. We don't have enough debates on FYROM in this forum....
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« Reply #65 on: March 27, 2013, 11:18:58 AM »

Slav can also mean glory as in pravoslavie or true glory or true fame.  Similiar to what I was told Ortho Doxa means in Greek.  You live in America, be what you want.  Do you like the Polish?   Do you have attachment to the pretzels and beer?  The Marxist philosph Eric Hobsbawm say that ethnicity is self ascribed. So ascribe yourself!  Being ascribed by others is pointless.  I make a point for you.  Next door is a people who speak like Bulgarians, have cultural like Bulgarians, have the same History as Bulgarians , they even shake their head from side to say to say yes like Bulgarians, but since the end of WWII they call themselves Macedonians and Slavs, while at the same time accusing us of being Mongols and Turks!  Of course the Greeks don't agree and call them FYROM.  My own family is a good point.  We are from little village in what was Ottoman Empir called Kukush (Kilkitsi in Turkish, Kilkis in Greek)  It is now after a short stay in Bulgaria, in Greece.  Like the Mexicanitsi say, I didn't cross the border,the border crossed me, na li?  Kukush is the home of great revolutionary hero Gotse Deltchev also.  Our family name is Palev, during the Balkan wars, some of us went to Bulgaria to escape the Turks and the Greeks and the Serbians.  Those that couldn't escape Kuskush, now Kilkkis, were renamed Palou by the Greeks, (they even changed the headstones in the grobishta) who say that there are no slavs living in Greece, only slavophone Greeks; the ones who ended up in Serbian controlled Macedonia were renamed Palevic and rechristened Serbs.  These poor folks were again renamed Palevsky after WWII and are now proud Macedonians.  While the rest of us are Palev and Bulgarian, nore or less.  Same family, same genealogy, same history, same village, three different nationalities.  Four if you count the Osmanli.  So pick one or pick none.

This guy seriously needs to post a lot more.

Yes. We don't have enough debates on FYROM in this forum....

Kukush/Kilkitsi/Kilkis is not in the territory of the Republic of Macedonia or the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia. A little history lesson on this town:

"By the mid-19th century Kilkis was a primarily Bulgarian-populated town. According to one estimate, there were about 500 Greeks, 500 Turks and 4500 Bulgarians in the town at the time. A 1873 Ottoman study concluded that the population of Kilkis consisted of 1,170 households of which there were 5,235 Bulgarian inhabitants, 155 Muslims and 40 Romani people. A Vasil Kanchov study of 1900 counted 7,000 Bulgarian and 750 Turkish inhabitants in the town. Another survey in 1905 established the presence of 9,712 Exarchists (Bulgarians--Carl), 40 Patriarchists (Greeks and other EO--Carl), 592 Uniate Christians and 16 Protestants."

"During the First Balkan War of 1912, the Ottoman Empire was defeated by the Balkan League and forced to concede almost all of its European territories, leaving Kilkis within the new boundaries of Bulgaria. In the Second Balkan War of 1913, the Greek army captured the city from the Bulgarians after the three-day Battle of Kilkis-Lahanas between June 19 and June 21....Kilkis was almost completely destroyed by the Greek Army during the battle and later and virtually all of its 7,000 pre-war Bulgarian inhabitants were expelled to Bulgaria. The new town was settled by Greeks transferred from Bulgaria, the Ottoman Empire and Yugoslavia, especially from Strumica..In the mid-1920s, after the Asia Minor Catastrophe, when Greece lost its Asia Minor territories to Turkey, waves of refugees came to Kilkis, thus giving a new boost to the region and contributing to the increase of its population..."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilkis#History
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