Poll

Is Islamic Spirit Behind Western Civilization?

Yes
1 (6.3%)
No
14 (87.5%)
May Be
0 (0%)
I Don't Know
1 (6.3%)

Total Members Voted: 16

Author Topic: Islamic Spirit Behind The West?  (Read 1329 times)

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Offline Balthasar

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Islamic Spirit Behind The West?
« on: February 19, 2013, 09:53:09 AM »

The historical union and the current alliance or flirting between Islamic forces and Western nations has forced me to ask, if there is, indeed, a very mysterious spiritual connection between the two.

What do you guys think?

Thanks!
« Last Edit: February 19, 2013, 09:57:56 AM by Balthasar »

Offline biro

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Re: Islamic Spirit Behind The West?
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2013, 10:12:07 AM »
I've never flirted with a Muslim. I did sit next to a Muslim guy in a science class in high school. He wasn't my boyfriend, though.
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Offline J Michael

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Re: Islamic Spirit Behind The West?
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2013, 11:47:23 AM »
Is *oil* (petroleum) and the demand for it "spiritual"?

Just what "historical union" are you referring to?
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Offline Santagranddad

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Re: Islamic Spirit Behind The West?
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2013, 12:52:34 PM »
A self serving connection, as in they have oil, or have lots of dollars and we would like to sell something for those same dollars or we've got a brilliant investment, Sheikh.

Somewhere recently I came across a suggestion of a link between Russian Policy and Islam, but cannot what that might be or why.

Offline Alpo

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Re: Islamic Spirit Behind The West?
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2013, 12:58:36 PM »
This board is turning more and more absurd with every new thread.

Offline J Michael

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Re: Islamic Spirit Behind The West?
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2013, 01:17:31 PM »
This board is turning more and more absurd with every new thread.

You noticed that, too, eh?
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Offline mike

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Re: Islamic Spirit Behind The West?
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2013, 01:23:24 PM »
This board is turning more and more absurd with every new thread.

You noticed that, too, eh?

+2

Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: Islamic Spirit Behind The West?
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2013, 01:24:54 PM »
"Just say NO".
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Offline Jason.Wike

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Re: Islamic Spirit Behind The West?
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2013, 12:05:21 AM »
If by 'historical union' you mean when they invaded the West's most intellectually and technologically advanced areas and then proceeded to claim they invented the things they found there...

No.

Offline Jason.Wike

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Re: Islamic Spirit Behind The West?
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2013, 12:07:43 AM »
Also, western civilization existed for 4000-ish years before the "Islamic spirit" even realized they should use different hands for wiping their butt and eating. Considering that is still the rule and not "WASH YOUR FREAKING HANDS, WITH SOAP" its still lagging behind.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 12:08:37 AM by Jason.Wike »

Offline LBK

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Re: Islamic Spirit Behind The West?
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2013, 12:09:42 AM »

Somewhere recently I came across a suggestion of a link between Russian Policy and Islam, but cannot what that might be or why.

Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Whoops, there goes that idea.
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Offline OrthoNoob

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Re: Islamic Spirit Behind The West?
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2013, 01:11:39 AM »

Somewhere recently I came across a suggestion of a link between Russian Policy and Islam, but cannot what that might be or why.

Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Whoops, there goes that idea.

The idea probably comes from the fact that Russia is backing Bashar al-Assad in Syria.

Now, considering what Russia is backing Assad against, the claim that those darn Russkies are secretly Islamist is rather odd, but the details of Middle Eastern politics are largely lost on Americans.
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Offline J Michael

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Re: Islamic Spirit Behind The West?
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2013, 10:12:02 AM »
Maybe ole Balthasar could check in with us on his thread and clarify a few things for us, eh?  For starters:"Is *oil* (petroleum) and the demand for it "spiritual"? Just what "historical union" are you referring to?"   ;)
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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Islamic Spirit Behind The West?
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2013, 11:10:44 AM »
Wow, that makes it tough for us Orthodox to choose between Arabic numbers and Roman numerals!  :D

Offline Balthasar

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Re: Islamic Spirit Behind The West?
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2013, 03:33:50 PM »

By "Islamic Spirit", I am talking about the anti-Christ spirit of Islam. The West, mainstream West is anti-Christ in spirit. In historical context we can have many examples where this spirit unified the Islamic powers with the West to fight against the "authentic" Christian world. For instance, Emperor Justin,for me he was a Western Emperor who probably betrayed the Christian Emperor of Ethiopia, Ezana, to eventually enable the empowerment of Mohammad. Another example is Constantinople. You all know the story.

Offline J Michael

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Re: Islamic Spirit Behind The West?
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2013, 03:57:40 PM »

By "Islamic Spirit", I am talking about the anti-Christ spirit of Islam. The West, mainstream West is anti-Christ in spirit. In historical context we can have many examples where this spirit unified the Islamic powers with the West to fight against the "authentic" Christian world. For instance, Emperor Justin,for me he was a Western Emperor who probably betrayed the Christian Emperor of Ethiopia, Ezana, to eventually enable the empowerment of Mohammad. Another example is Constantinople. You all know the story.

What is "mainstream West"?

What about the East?  You know, Asia?  No "anti-Christ spirit" there?  What about, hmm....Africa?  No "anti-Christ spirit" there?  South America?  None there?

What about, as someone mentioned earlier, the fact that there was a "West" before there was Islam?

What point are you trying to establish or prove?  That there is an "anti-Christ spirit" loose in the world?  I think we know that.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 03:58:49 PM by J Michael »
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Offline vamrat

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Re: Islamic Spirit Behind The West?
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2013, 04:09:05 PM »
The Christian (to varying degrees) West is linked to the Moslems in the same way that Israel was to the Assyrians and Babylonians. 
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.

Offline Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)

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Re: Islamic Spirit Behind The West?
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2013, 04:52:30 PM »
This board is turning more and more absurd with every new thread.

You noticed that, too, eh?

+2

Getting ready for Great Lent?

Offline J Michael

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Re: Islamic Spirit Behind The West?
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2013, 04:57:52 PM »
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline biro

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Re: Islamic Spirit Behind The West?
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2013, 05:38:26 PM »
The West, mainstream West is anti-Christ in spirit.

So, an entire hemisphere of the planet hates Jesus and is not part of "authentic Christianity."

Gee, thanks! What a nice day you must be having.

Please poke me in the eye with a stick.  :P
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Offline rakovsky

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Re: Islamic Spirit Behind The West?
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2013, 06:05:23 PM »
Also, western civilization existed for 4000-ish years before the "Islamic spirit" even realized they should use different hands for wiping their butt and eating. Considering that is still the rule and not "WASH YOUR FREAKING HANDS, WITH SOAP" its still lagging behind.
I was not aware of the underlined rule, and have broken it consistently. But I do wash afterwards.  :D

By the way, I am not sure what you mean Jason. Do you mean that the Islamic spirit has not gotten up to the level of washing their hands and the spirit continues to follow what "is still the rule" (using different hands for eating and wiping)?

Anyway, the Middle East was apparently far more advanced in personal hygiene when the crusaders invaded. That may sound surprising to you, but the Catholic crusaders' slovenliness surprised the Middle Easterners too.

That brings to mind that you are probably inadvertently speaking against the original (Ethiopian?) poster on the forum, since you bring up images of eastern backwardness, rather than specifically "Islamic" religious issues.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 06:15:38 PM by rakovsky »

Offline rakovsky

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Re: Islamic Spirit Behind The West?
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2013, 06:09:58 PM »
Wow, that makes it tough for us Orthodox to choose between Arabic numbers and Roman numerals!  :D
Podkarpatska,

I know. You are bringing up more examples of how the Islamic spirit has run throughout Western civilization. We are even using their numbers and naval navigational methods.

Anyway, I just am NOT ready to go back to using alphabet letters to count. Ano Domini 2013 gets really confusing that way!!!! (brain block)
« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 06:11:30 PM by rakovsky »

Offline rakovsky

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Re: Islamic Spirit Behind The West?
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2013, 06:14:23 PM »
The Christian (to varying degrees) West is linked to the Moslems in the same way that Israel was to the Assyrians and Babylonians.  
I think the opposite is more likely true. Alot of Muslim countries' governments are dependent on US support, just as, at times the ancient Israelites likely "deferred" to or may have even paid tribute to stronger powers nearby.

In the case of Middle Eastern countries (like Libya at the moment), the modern "tithe" could be the extraction of those countries' natural resources (oil) and transfer of them to the victorious countries.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 06:15:06 PM by rakovsky »

Offline Jason.Wike

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Re: Islamic Spirit Behind The West?
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2013, 10:34:13 PM »
Also, western civilization existed for 4000-ish years before the "Islamic spirit" even realized they should use different hands for wiping their butt and eating. Considering that is still the rule and not "WASH YOUR FREAKING HANDS, WITH SOAP" its still lagging behind.
I was not aware of the underlined rule, and have broken it consistently. But I do wash afterwards.  :D

By the way, I am not sure what you mean Jason. Do you mean that the Islamic spirit has not gotten up to the level of washing their hands and the spirit continues to follow what "is still the rule" (using different hands for eating and wiping)?

Anyway, the Middle East was apparently far more advanced in personal hygiene when the crusaders invaded. That may sound surprising to you, but the Catholic crusaders' slovenliness surprised the Middle Easterners too.

That brings to mind that you are probably inadvertently speaking against the original (Ethiopian?) poster on the forum, since you bring up images of eastern backwardness, rather than specifically "Islamic" religious issues.

I was talking about how it is the rule in their religion about using different hands (the Qadaa' al-Haajah stuff), but they haven't just amended it to "wash your hands." And I'm technically/genetically more eastern than Ethiopia (or Greece, Russian or Iran...) so no... I'm Western, Eastern and so-east-you're-somewhere-in-Asia all in one.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 10:55:46 PM by Jason.Wike »

Offline Balthasar

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Re: Islamic Spirit Behind The West?
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2013, 10:21:05 AM »

"West" is not a mere geographical discription. Greece is the cradle of "Western" civilization. In today's world Russia and Japan too belong to the Western civilization.

Going back the anti-Christ spirit, as we all know, spiritual diseases lead to spiritual death, Homosexuality is the symptom of this cancerous disease. And this particular disease is widespread in the West and Islamic-dominated states.

Now, may be 'Cardinal' Biro might get angry because his potential candidate for the Roman Papacy, Peter the Roman Son of the Turk said the following to the Christian-biased, Christiane Amanpour:

“African traditional systems kind of protect or have protected its population against this tendency,” the cardinal said. Unlike in the West, the rejection of homosexuality in Africa has protected children from molesters.  Cardinal Turkson:

http://amanpour.blogs.cnn.com/2013/02/12/meet-the-man-who-could-be-the-first-black-pope/

P.S: Please be wary of those whose name begins with “Christian” “Christine” or “Christiane”


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Re: Islamic Spirit Behind The West?
« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2013, 10:36:31 AM »
“African traditional systems kind of protect or have protected its population against this tendency,” the cardinal said. Unlike in the West, the rejection of homosexuality in Africa has protected children from molesters.  Cardinal Turkson:

ORLY?

http://www.glbtq.com/social-sciences/africa_pre.html
http://www.afronline.org/?p=27868
http://76crimes.com/2012/05/08/traditional-african-homosexuality-has-learned-from-west/
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Offline biro

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Re: Islamic Spirit Behind The West?
« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2013, 10:43:22 AM »

"West" is not a mere geographical discription. Greece is the cradle of "Western" civilization. In today's world Russia and Japan too belong to the Western civilization.

Going back the anti-Christ spirit, as we all know, spiritual diseases lead to spiritual death, Homosexuality is the symptom of this cancerous disease. And this particular disease is widespread in the West and Islamic-dominated states.

Now, may be 'Cardinal' Biro might get angry because his potential candidate for the Roman Papacy, Peter the Roman Son of the Turk said the following to the Christian-biased, Christiane Amanpour:

“African traditional systems kind of protect or have protected its population against this tendency,” the cardinal said. Unlike in the West, the rejection of homosexuality in Africa has protected children from molesters.  Cardinal Turkson:

http://amanpour.blogs.cnn.com/2013/02/12/meet-the-man-who-could-be-the-first-black-pope/

P.S: Please be wary of those whose name begins with “Christian” “Christine” or “Christiane”



One, I'm a her. Two, I'm not a cardinal. See statement one.

Three, step away from the keyboard. You may hurt yourself.
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Offline J Michael

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Re: Islamic Spirit Behind The West?
« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2013, 11:37:40 AM »

"West" is not a mere geographical discription. Greece is the cradle of "Western" civilization. In today's world Russia and Japan too belong to the Western civilization.

Going back the anti-Christ spirit, as we all know, spiritual diseases lead to spiritual death, Homosexuality is the symptom of this cancerous disease. And this particular disease is widespread in the West and Islamic-dominated states.

Now, may be 'Cardinal' Biro might get angry because his potential candidate for the Roman Papacy, Peter the Roman Son of the Turk said the following to the Christian-biased, Christiane Amanpour:

“African traditional systems kind of protect or have protected its population against this tendency,” the cardinal said. Unlike in the West, the rejection of homosexuality in Africa has protected children from molesters.  Cardinal Turkson:

http://amanpour.blogs.cnn.com/2013/02/12/meet-the-man-who-could-be-the-first-black-pope/

P.S: Please be wary of those whose name begins with “Christian” “Christine” or “Christiane”



One, I'm a her. Two, I'm not a cardinal. See statement one.

Three, step away from the keyboard. You may hurt yourself.

LOL!
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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Islamic Spirit Behind The West?
« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2013, 11:38:58 AM »

"West" is not a mere geographical discription. Greece is the cradle of "Western" civilization. In today's world Russia and Japan too belong to the Western civilization.

Going back the anti-Christ spirit, as we all know, spiritual diseases lead to spiritual death, Homosexuality is the symptom of this cancerous disease. And this particular disease is widespread in the West and Islamic-dominated states.

Now, may be 'Cardinal' Biro might get angry because his potential candidate for the Roman Papacy, Peter the Roman Son of the Turk said the following to the Christian-biased, Christiane Amanpour:

“African traditional systems kind of protect or have protected its population against this tendency,” the cardinal said. Unlike in the West, the rejection of homosexuality in Africa has protected children from molesters.  Cardinal Turkson:

http://amanpour.blogs.cnn.com/2013/02/12/meet-the-man-who-could-be-the-first-black-pope/

P.S: Please be wary of those whose name begins with “Christian” “Christine” or “Christiane”



One, I'm a her. Two, I'm not a cardinal. See statement one.

Three, step away from the keyboard. You may hurt yourself.

I take offense to the "p.s." Christina/Christine/Kristin etc... is an honorable Orthodox name. St. Christina of Tyre, the Great Martyr is particularly revered. She also happens to be my daughter's patron and name saint.