Author Topic: Becoming a citizen and the Bible  (Read 1271 times)

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Offline Romaios

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Re: Becoming a citizen and the Bible
« Reply #45 on: February 02, 2013, 03:54:23 PM »
The passage Romaios quoted is not about paying tribute to Caesar but is about a tax paid to the Temple by all Jews

True, but from very early on, it was read in connection with the other passages about paying taxes to the Romans. So at least by Origen and St. Irenaeus.

"This coin was not in Jesus’ house but happened to be in the mouth of a fish in the sea. This too, I think, was a result of God’s kindness. It was caught and came up on the hook belonging to Peter, who was the fisher of men. That which is figuratively called a fish was caught in order that the coin with the image of Caesar might be taken from it, that it might take its place among those which were caught by them who have learned to become fishers of men. Let him, then, who has the things of Caesar render them to Caesar, that afterwards he may be able to render to God the things of God. But since Jesus is the image of God the unseen and did not have the image of Caesar (for there was nothing in him that had anything to do with the prince of this world), he therefore took the image of Caesar from a suitable place in the sea, so as to pay it to the kings of the earth as the contribution of himself and his disciple. Jesus did this so that those taking the half-shekel might not suppose Jesus to be in debt either to them or to the kings of the earth. For he paid the debt, one he had never taken on or possessed or used to buy anything or made his personal possession, to prevent the image of Caesar ever being alongside the image of the invisible God." (Origen, Commentary on Matthew 13.10.19)

Offline choy

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Re: Becoming a citizen and the Bible
« Reply #46 on: February 07, 2013, 05:23:38 PM »
On a related news, I'm having my oathtaking before the end of the month!

Woohoo!!!!

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Becoming a citizen and the Bible
« Reply #47 on: February 07, 2013, 05:27:45 PM »
The passage Romaios quoted is not about paying tribute to Caesar but is about a tax paid to the Temple by all Jews

True, but from very early on, it was read in connection with the other passages about paying taxes to the Romans. So at least by Origen and St. Irenaeus.

"This coin was not in Jesus’ house but happened to be in the mouth of a fish in the sea. This too, I think, was a result of God’s kindness. It was caught and came up on the hook belonging to Peter, who was the fisher of men. That which is figuratively called a fish was caught in order that the coin with the image of Caesar might be taken from it, that it might take its place among those which were caught by them who have learned to become fishers of men. Let him, then, who has the things of Caesar render them to Caesar, that afterwards he may be able to render to God the things of God. But since Jesus is the image of God the unseen and did not have the image of Caesar (for there was nothing in him that had anything to do with the prince of this world), he therefore took the image of Caesar from a suitable place in the sea, so as to pay it to the kings of the earth as the contribution of himself and his disciple. Jesus did this so that those taking the half-shekel might not suppose Jesus to be in debt either to them or to the kings of the earth. For he paid the debt, one he had never taken on or possessed or used to buy anything or made his personal possession, to prevent the image of Caesar ever being alongside the image of the invisible God." (Origen, Commentary on Matthew 13.10.19)

And people claim postmodernity reads too much into stuff . . .
Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.

Offline choy

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Re: Becoming a citizen and the Bible
« Reply #48 on: February 08, 2013, 02:20:18 AM »
Oh, and I can confirm that the Holy Book is optional.

I was hoping that since I'm going to swear an oath to the Queen anyway, maybe I can use a photo of Kate Middleton to swear on  ;D


To celebrate this event, I want to get this icon...


Offline choy

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Re: Becoming a citizen and the Bible
« Reply #49 on: February 22, 2013, 08:30:39 PM »
So I became a Canadian Citizen today, for those who care  ;D

So I swore on an icon of Constantine the Great and the sung the Canadian National Anthem in Tone 6.

 ;D ;D ;D

Offline genesisone

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Re: Becoming a citizen and the Bible
« Reply #50 on: February 22, 2013, 09:16:02 PM »
So I became a Canadian Citizen today, for those who care  ;D

So I swore on an icon of Constantine the Great and the sung the Canadian National Anthem in Tone 6.

 ;D ;D ;D
Congratulations! Glad you have joined us!

Offline WPM

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Re: Becoming a citizen and the Bible
« Reply #51 on: February 22, 2013, 09:55:44 PM »
Hi <wave> ...

Offline Nadege

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Re: Becoming a citizen and the Bible
« Reply #52 on: February 23, 2013, 11:18:50 PM »
Is it appropriate to take your Citizenship Oath swearing on a Bible?  I personally don't find it appropriate to be swearing allegiance to a secular authority via the Holy Scriptures.
I work in immigration law and have never heard of such a practice.  The standard practice is this:

"After raising your right hand you will repeat ""I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the armed forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God." The oath was established in 1929, and the exact same text has been used since."

http://www.ehow.com/info_10015388_naturalization-oath-taken.html#ixzz2Lmd7SVkV

« Last Edit: February 23, 2013, 11:24:10 PM by Nadege »

Offline Nicene

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Re: Becoming a citizen and the Bible
« Reply #53 on: February 23, 2013, 11:23:59 PM »
I suppose if there were a qualifier to the oath, maybe...
Thank you.

Offline Nadege

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Re: Becoming a citizen and the Bible
« Reply #54 on: February 23, 2013, 11:30:39 PM »
I suppose if there were a qualifier to the oath, maybe...
It's always a multicultured room of people, and the administrator of the oath says the words of the oath which everyone repeats, then congratulates new Americans.  The entire ceremony is completely secular.


Offline choy

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Re: Becoming a citizen and the Bible
« Reply #55 on: February 23, 2013, 11:44:40 PM »
Is it appropriate to take your Citizenship Oath swearing on a Bible?  I personally don't find it appropriate to be swearing allegiance to a secular authority via the Holy Scriptures.
I work in immigration law and have never heard of such a practice.  The standard practice is this:

"After raising your right hand you will repeat ""I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the armed forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God." The oath was established in 1929, and the exact same text has been used since."

http://www.ehow.com/info_10015388_naturalization-oath-taken.html#ixzz2Lmd7SVkV



Well, here in Canada you are allowed to take a "holy book" of your choice.  I was wondering if it was mandatory to have one or not.  Good thing in the letter I got it was explicit that it was optional.

Interestingly, our oath never had any renunciation of any foreign power or affiliation.  I wonder if I'm a dual citizen automatically.

Offline Nadege

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Re: Becoming a citizen and the Bible
« Reply #56 on: February 23, 2013, 11:49:10 PM »
Interestingly, our oath never had any renunciation of any foreign power or affiliation.  I wonder if I'm a dual citizen automatically.[/quote]

I thought you guys were Her Majesty's subjects, am I totally off?
« Last Edit: February 23, 2013, 11:49:34 PM by Nadege »

Offline choy

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Re: Becoming a citizen and the Bible
« Reply #57 on: February 24, 2013, 12:40:27 AM »
I thought you guys were Her Majesty's subjects, am I totally off?

Of course we take an oath to be faithful to Her Majesty and all her successors.  But we never renounce any affiliation we previously have.

Offline Nadege

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Re: Becoming a citizen and the Bible
« Reply #58 on: February 24, 2013, 12:49:24 AM »
Oh okay.  I'm kinda clueless about Canada, but I did take the train to Montreal for two days once for the Catholic Christmas, and I went to the main cathedral (Marie la Reine I think is the name, in the center) for the Christmas midnight mass, and it was absolument magnifique!