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Offline Charles Martel

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Mohamed vs Buddha.......
« on: February 17, 2013, 02:15:39 PM »
No contest in Iran.  ;D

Iran confiscates Buddha statues from shops
By BY NASSER KARIMI | Associated Press – 5 hrs ago..

TEHRAN, Iran (AP) — Buddha statues have joined Barbie dolls and characters from "The Simpsons" TV cartoon as banned items in the conservative Muslim nation.

Authorities are confiscating Buddha statues from shops in the Iranian capital, Tehran, to stop the promotion of Buddhism in the country, according to a report Sunday in the independent Arman daily.

Iran has long fought against items, such as Barbie toys, to defuse Western influence, but this appears to be the first time that Iranian authorities are showing an opposition to symbols from the East.

http://news.yahoo.com/iran-confiscates-buddha-statues-shops-092335149.html
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Offline JamesR

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Re: Mohamed vs Buddha.......
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2013, 06:00:12 PM »
You gotta be kidding me. Buddha was probably the greatest pre-Christ being to ever walk the face of the Earth, Muhammed was a ruthless warlord. Buddha taught (although admittedly flawed in aspects) a way to live peacefully and shun the ways of the world. It's really no comparision who's better.
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
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Offline OrthoNoob

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Re: Mohamed vs Buddha.......
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2013, 06:15:16 PM »
You gotta be kidding me. Buddha was probably the greatest pre-Christ being to ever walk the face of the Earth, Muhammed was a ruthless warlord. Buddha taught (although admittedly flawed in aspects) a way to live peacefully and shun the ways of the world. It's really no comparision who's better.

If you read the OP, I don't think you'll find Charles Martel to be arguing that Muhammad was better than Buddha.
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Offline Arachne

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Re: Mohamed vs Buddha.......
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2013, 06:16:03 PM »
« Last Edit: February 17, 2013, 06:17:00 PM by Arachne »
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Offline Nephi

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Re: Mohamed vs Buddha.......
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2013, 06:17:39 PM »
You gotta be kidding me. Buddha was probably the greatest pre-Christ being to ever walk the face of the Earth, Muhammed was a ruthless warlord. Buddha taught (although admittedly flawed in aspects) a way to live peacefully and shun the ways of the world. It's really no comparision who's better.

"Pre-Christ being?"

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Mohamed vs Buddha.......
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2013, 07:06:21 PM »
You gotta be kidding me. Buddha was probably the greatest pre-Christ being to ever walk the face of the Earth, Muhammed was a ruthless warlord. Buddha taught (although admittedly flawed in aspects) a way to live peacefully and shun the ways of the world. It's really no comparision who's better.

If you read the OP, I don't think you'll find Charles Martel to be arguing that Muhammad was better than Buddha.
No I wasn't exactly. I think the law in Iran is a bit over the top.

I also respect them for protecting their culture to a degree.

But James does need to read more about the desert prophet other than Western, anti-Muslim resources.

« Last Edit: February 17, 2013, 07:08:36 PM by Charles Martel »
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Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Mohamed vs Buddha.......
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2013, 07:07:53 PM »
http://www.sinfest.net/comikaze/comics/2007-04-06.gif

This, as they say, is It. ;)
To me, Buddhism is very strange and complicated.

You almost need a degree in philosophy to begin to understand it.
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Offline JamesR

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Re: Mohamed vs Buddha.......
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2013, 07:13:59 PM »
http://www.sinfest.net/comikaze/comics/2007-04-06.gif

This, as they say, is It. ;)
To me, Buddhism is very strange and complicated.

You almost need a degree in philosophy to begin to understand it.

That won't even help you because Buddhism uses eastern logic opposed to western, it's an entirely different worldview than the Scholasticism we are used to.
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
In the infinite wisdom of God, James can be all three.

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Mohamed vs Buddha.......
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2013, 07:22:59 PM »
http://www.sinfest.net/comikaze/comics/2007-04-06.gif

This, as they say, is It. ;)
To me, Buddhism is very strange and complicated.

You almost need a degree in philosophy to begin to understand it.

That won't even help you because Buddhism uses eastern logic opposed to western, it's an entirely different worldview than the Scholasticism we are used to.
I agree with you, the Eastern mind can be a very difficult thing for the Westerner to comprehend sometimes.


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Offline Iconodule

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Re: Mohamed vs Buddha.......
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2013, 07:44:26 PM »
http://www.sinfest.net/comikaze/comics/2007-04-06.gif

This, as they say, is It. ;)
To me, Buddhism is very strange and complicated.

You almost need a degree in philosophy to begin to understand it.

That won't even help you because Buddhism uses eastern logic opposed to western, it's an entirely different worldview than the Scholasticism we are used to.

No, Buddhism is very rational and scholastic. Put the East/West dichotomy in the dustbin where it belongs. Buddhist metaphysics are not that hard for, say,  an Aristotelian to follow.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2013, 07:45:28 PM by Iconodule »

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Mohamed vs Buddha.......
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2013, 07:47:42 PM »
I'm pretty sure James is talking about the pop-buddhism he read about on an internet site...

Offline Nephi

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Re: Mohamed vs Buddha.......
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2013, 07:58:40 PM »
No, Buddhism is very rational and scholastic. Put the East/West dichotomy in the dustbin where it belongs. Buddhist metaphysics are not that hard for, say,  an Aristotelian to follow.

A professor of mine that had concentrated in East Asian philosophy sometimes referred to Zen, IIRC, Buddhism's denial of the law of noncontradiction. Is this contrary to the other Buddhist traditions then?

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Mohamed vs Buddha.......
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2013, 08:06:22 PM »
At any rate, seems it is Islam that is pushing up on former Buddhist strongholds, not the other way around.

Maybe somtimes people need simple  old fashion religion and not some vague, incoherent, meta-physical belief system.

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Offline Iconodule

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Re: Mohamed vs Buddha.......
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2013, 08:07:56 PM »
No, Buddhism is very rational and scholastic. Put the East/West dichotomy in the dustbin where it belongs. Buddhist metaphysics are not that hard for, say,  an Aristotelian to follow.

A professor of mine that had concentrated in East Asian philosophy sometimes referred to Zen, IIRC, Buddhism's denial of the law of noncontradiction. Is this contrary to the other Buddhist traditions then?

First of all, a lot of Asian philosophy professors wrongly focus on Zen Buddhism as something wholly different from general Buddhism. They draw attention to the various gimmicks (koans, crazy master stories) and enigmatic sayings, without delving into the general Buddhist philosophical system which Zen is based on like all Buddhisms are. It would be a lot more profitable to have students read about Hua-Yen metaphysics before looking into Zen, as it renders a lot of Zen writing much more intelligible. Unfortunately I doubt that most Asian philosophy professors know much about Hua-Yen at all.

Regarding the law of noncontradiction, I suspect your professor was probably referring to something like "there is a mountain and there is no mountain."

In Mahayana Buddhism, especially that informed by the Madhyamaka school, there is the doctrine of the "two truths"- relative and absolute. Relatively, there is a mountain. Absolutely there is no mountain because it is impermanent, has no abiding self, empty, etc.

Not that hard to understand, right?

Granted, concepts like emptiness in Buddhism are difficult to grasp but this holds true equally for "eastern" and "western" minds.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2013, 08:09:36 PM by Iconodule »

Offline Nephi

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Re: Mohamed vs Buddha.......
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2013, 08:14:09 PM »
First of all, a lot of Asian philosophy professors wrongly focus on Zen Buddhism as something wholly different from general Buddhism. They draw attention to the various gimmicks (koans, crazy master stories) and enigmatic sayings, without delving into the general Buddhist philosophical system which Zen is based on like all Buddhisms are. It would be a lot more profitable to have students read about Hua-Yen metaphysics before looking into Zen, as it renders a lot of Zen writing much more intelligible. Unfortunately I doubt that most Asian philosophy professors know much about Hua-Yen at all.

Regarding the law of noncontradiction, I suspect your professor was probably referring to something like "there is a mountain and there is no mountain."

In Mahayana Buddhism, especially that informed by the Madhyamaka school, there is the doctrine of the "two truths"- relative and absolute. Relatively, there is a mountain. Absolutely there is no mountain because it is impermanent, has no abiding self, empty, etc.

Not that hard to understand, right?

I honestly can't speak to his knowledge since I didn't have his class on East Asian philosophy, and his references to it in my other courses were short and sparse.

However, your example would make sense in general, but it wouldn't have applied to the context. Might have to contact him.

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Mohamed vs Buddha.......
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2013, 08:24:35 PM »
Whatever the case may be, if your professor jumped into Zen without giving you a grounding in Madhyamaka and Hua-Yen (which could be courses in themselves) he was doing everyone a disservice.

Offline William

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Re: Mohamed vs Buddha.......
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2013, 08:54:12 PM »
http://www.sinfest.net/comikaze/comics/2007-04-06.gif

This, as they say, is It. ;)

Fantastic.

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Re: Mohamed vs Buddha.......
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2013, 06:06:24 AM »
http://www.sinfest.net/comikaze/comics/2007-04-06.gif

This, as they say, is It. ;)

Fantastic.

Sinfest is a fantastic comic, and Little Buddha is one of the best characters on it. ;)
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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Mohamed vs Buddha.......
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2013, 06:14:16 AM »
Everybody knows that Buddha was a Christian.
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Offline Alpo

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Re: Mohamed vs Buddha.......
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2013, 06:18:53 AM »
I'm pretty sure James is talking about the pop-buddhism he read about on an internet site...

And pop-Islam he read about from a non-Muslim source.
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Mohamed vs Buddha.......
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2013, 03:58:26 PM »
Nothing reveals the the truth of the Buddha more than his image being removed from the planet.
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Offline Romaios

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Re: Mohamed vs Buddha.......
« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2013, 04:20:43 PM »
Nothing reveals the the truth of the Buddha more than his image being removed from the planet.

His footprints endure forever:


Offline SavedByChrist94

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Re: Mohamed vs Buddha.......
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2013, 04:37:06 PM »
"mohamed vs buddha?"

Draw, they're both fairy tales.

you want The True God? He is The God of Abraham, The God of Issac, The God of Jacob, The God of Israel, His name is YHWH(The Father, The Son(Jesus Christ, and The Holy Spirit) of The Bible.

Offline JamesR

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Re: Mohamed vs Buddha.......
« Reply #23 on: February 23, 2013, 04:40:37 PM »
"Mohammed vs Buddha"?

Draw, they're both fairy tales.

You want the true God? He is the god of Abraham, the god of Issac, the god of Jacob, the god of Israel. His name is YHWH (The Father, the Son (Jesus Christ) and the Holy Spirit of the Church.

Fixed :)
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
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Offline Cantor Krishnich

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Re: Mohamed vs Buddha.......
« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2013, 04:49:52 PM »
Both are heretical and they are in need of the truth of Orthodoxy.

Muslims are closer though. Muslims are monotheistic and their faith is derived from Christianity but they are heretics and their leaders have persecuted Christians for centuries. Buddhists are mainly atheists and have a dharmic religion.
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Offline JamesR

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Re: Mohamed vs Buddha.......
« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2013, 04:52:27 PM »
Both are heretical and they are in need of the truth of Orthodoxy.

Muslims are closer though. Muslims are monotheistic and their faith is derived from Christianity but they are heretics and their leaders have persecuted Christians for centuries. Buddhists are mainly atheists and have a dharmic religion.


You gotta be kidding me. Just because Islam has some similar external elements, that does not mean that they are closer to Christ's message. Buddhists are MUCH closer to Christ's message because they live peacefully, care for others and usually live very humble, monastic-like lives. I find that much more Christian than Islam, which advocates violence, intolerance and horror.
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
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Offline SavedByChrist94

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Re: Mohamed vs Buddha.......
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2013, 05:10:42 PM »
Nothing reveals the the truth of the Buddha more than his image being removed from the planet.

His footprints endure forever:



I could've made that in Kindergarten, buddha was just some teacher, that's it.

you want truth? Burst of UV-like light from a dead body causing an Image on a cloth,



Jesus Christ said, John 14:16 "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me."

Offline SavedByChrist94

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Re: Mohamed vs Buddha.......
« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2013, 05:14:22 PM »
Both are heretical and they are in need of the truth of Orthodoxy.

Muslims are closer though. Muslims are monotheistic and their faith is derived from Christianity but they are heretics and their leaders have persecuted Christians for centuries. Buddhists are mainly atheists and have a dharmic religion.


Half right,

islam, buddhism, are false, and the orthodox church gives doctrines contrary to Scripture,

The Truth? YHWH, God of Abraham, Issac, Jacob, who exists as 3 Persons(The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit), and are recorded Only by His Witnesses(Prophets, Apostles of Jesus Christ) (Early Church Fathers aren't witnesses but only useable to back  Doctrines IN Scripture for Apologetics)

Offline SavedByChrist94

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Re: Mohamed vs Buddha.......
« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2013, 05:21:05 PM »
Both are heretical and they are in need of the truth of Orthodoxy.

Muslims are closer though. Muslims are monotheistic and their faith is derived from Christianity but they are heretics and their leaders have persecuted Christians for centuries. Buddhists are mainly atheists and have a dharmic religion.


You gotta be kidding me. Just because Islam has some similar external elements, that does not mean that they are closer to Christ's message. Buddhists are MUCH closer to Christ's message because they live peacefully, care for others and usually live very humble, monastic-like lives. I find that much more Christian than Islam, which advocates violence, intolerance and horror.

Nope buddhist deny pleasure and/or say it's finite when factually that's what life is all about, you're supposed to be happy, that's why God(The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit) made us, it's either you have pleasure(peace, happiness joy, etc) or suffer, buddhism is against both so it's automatically false, along with islam, you're stuck with The Truth of The Old and New Testament, with The True God who is YHWH(The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit).

as a matter of fact, since buddhism denies God(YHWH) given pleasures, it actually causes MORE harm, anger, and sin, we are stuck in a suffering world due to oppression(buddhism), violence(islam), rebellion("atheism"), and confusion("agnostics"), when Factually the only place we can get that cure is from The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit(God)

As Paul said,

1 Timothy 4:1-54 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 3 They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. 4 For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5 because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.

Offline Cantor Krishnich

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Re: Mohamed vs Buddha.......
« Reply #29 on: February 23, 2013, 05:28:55 PM »
Both are heretical and they are in need of the truth of Orthodoxy.

Muslims are closer though. Muslims are monotheistic and their faith is derived from Christianity but they are heretics and their leaders have persecuted Christians for centuries. Buddhists are mainly atheists and have a dharmic religion.


You gotta be kidding me. Just because Islam has some similar external elements, that does not mean that they are closer to Christ's message. Buddhists are MUCH closer to Christ's message because they live peacefully, care for others and usually live very humble, monastic-like lives. I find that much more Christian than Islam, which advocates violence, intolerance and horror.

Typical Western observations. First off, I am not promoting Islam as a religion of peace because its not. Islam is basically a mixture of heresies derived from the Orthodox Christian faith. Buddhists have a totally different belief system derived from the Hindu Dharmic faiths and the traditional Buddhist faith doesn't even ascribe belief in a God. Muslims believe Christ is a Prophet and some sects even offer prayer to him, the Virgin Theotokos and many Christian saints.      

Buddhists haven't always been as peaceful and tolerant as you ascribe. The Muslims, Christians and Hindus of Burma, China and Sri Lanka have seen some nasty stuff in their history.
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Offline SavedByChrist94

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Re: Mohamed vs Buddha.......
« Reply #30 on: February 23, 2013, 05:50:02 PM »
Both are heretical and they are in need of the truth of Orthodoxy.

Muslims are closer though. Muslims are monotheistic and their faith is derived from Christianity but they are heretics and their leaders have persecuted Christians for centuries. Buddhists are mainly atheists and have a dharmic religion.


You gotta be kidding me. Just because Islam has some similar external elements, that does not mean that they are closer to Christ's message. Buddhists are MUCH closer to Christ's message because they live peacefully, care for others and usually live very humble, monastic-like lives. I find that much more Christian than Islam, which advocates violence, intolerance and horror.

Typical Western observations. First off, I am not promoting Islam as a religion of peace because its not. Islam is basically a mixture of heresies derived from the Orthodox Christian faith. Buddhists have a totally different belief system derived from the Hindu Dharmic faiths and the traditional Buddhist faith doesn't even ascribe belief in a God. Muslims believe Christ is a Prophet and some sects even offer prayer to him, the Virgin Theotokos and many Christian saints.      

Buddhists haven't always been as peaceful and tolerant as you ascribe. The Muslims, Christians and Hindus of Burma, China and Sri Lanka have seen some nasty stuff in their history.

This all comes down to, Matthew 7:21-28,

Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in Heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' 24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

28 When Jesus had finished saying these things, the crowds were amazed at his teaching, 29 because he taught as one who had authority, and not as their teachers of the law.

Offline Jason.Wike

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Re: Mohamed vs Buddha.......
« Reply #31 on: February 23, 2013, 08:10:26 PM »
You gotta be kidding me. Buddha was probably the greatest pre-Christ being to ever walk the face of the Earth, Muhammed was a ruthless warlord. Buddha taught (although admittedly flawed in aspects) a way to live peacefully and shun the ways of the world. It's really no comparision who's better.

If you read the OP, I don't think you'll find Charles Martel to be arguing that Muhammad was better than Buddha.
No I wasn't exactly. I think the law in Iran is a bit over the top.

I also respect them for protecting their culture to a degree.

But James does need to read more about the desert prophet other than Western, anti-Muslim resources.

Because those Middle Eastern Muslim sources that have him personally wiping out entire tribes are so good.