Author Topic: Alligator for Lent  (Read 3300 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Jetavan

  • Argumentum ad australopithecum
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,580
  • Barlaam and Josaphat
    • The Mystical Theology
Alligator for Lent
« on: February 15, 2013, 08:24:29 AM »
Deus non alligatur? Apparently not.
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline Arachne

  • Trinary Unit || Resident Bossy Boots
  • Section Moderator
  • Taxiarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,167
  • In life as in art, grace glides on blistered feet.
  • Faith: Cradle Greek Orthodox. Cope.
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian Archdiocese, UK
Re: Alligator for Lent
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2013, 08:32:26 AM »
Turtle is (apparently) okay as well.
'When you live your path all the time, you end up with both more path and more time.'~Venecia Rauls

Blog ~ Bookshelf ~ Jukebox

Offline brastaseptim

  • Protopsáltis
  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 952
  • From BBC Louisiana to you, here's the morning news
Re: Alligator for Lent
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2013, 08:44:03 AM »
Only in Louisiana...
BBC news certified; The Guardian rejected; OC.net approved.

Offline Romaios

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,933
Re: Alligator for Lent
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2013, 09:02:06 AM »
In the Middle Ages the argument was that poultry might be ok to eat in Lent, because God created birds and sea creatures on the fifth day. Land animals would be too closely related to us since, like us, they were created on the primordial Friday.

Now only God knows on which day he created amphibians and aquatic reptiles! Thursday evening at sunset or Thursday/Friday midnight?

Offline Αριστοκλής

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,026
Re: Alligator for Lent
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2013, 09:18:27 AM »
I really, really like 'gator, but it's not for Orthodox fasting as far as I've ever read. Of course in times past the closest the Church could probably have come to alligator was maybe crocodile, an animal I doubt they would have allowed either. I bet the Copts would not allow it.
"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides

Offline LBK

  • No Reporting Allowed
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,785
  • Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!
  • Faith: Orthodox
Re: Alligator for Lent
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2013, 09:22:38 AM »
I really, really like 'gator, but it's not for Orthodox fasting as far as I've ever read. Of course in times past the closest the Church could probably have come to alligator was maybe crocodile, an animal I doubt they would have allowed either. I bet the Copts would not allow it.

I've been Orthodox for nigh on 50 years, and never have I heard of any priest or hierarch in my neck of the woods allow croc or gator (or, indeed, any reptile) during Lent. They'd be classified as meat, not fish.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline katherineofdixie

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,718
Re: Alligator for Lent
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2013, 11:15:40 AM »
I really, really like 'gator, but it's not for Orthodox fasting as far as I've ever read. Of course in times past the closest the Church could probably have come to alligator was maybe crocodile, an animal I doubt they would have allowed either. I bet the Copts would not allow it.

I've been Orthodox for nigh on 50 years, and never have I heard of any priest or hierarch in my neck of the woods allow croc or gator (or, indeed, any reptile) during Lent. They'd be classified as meat, not fish.

Because it tastes like chicken?
"If but ten of us lead a holy life, we shall kindle a fire which shall light up the entire city."

 St. John Chrysostom

Offline Jetavan

  • Argumentum ad australopithecum
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,580
  • Barlaam and Josaphat
    • The Mystical Theology
Re: Alligator for Lent
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2013, 11:20:25 AM »
I really, really like 'gator, but it's not for Orthodox fasting as far as I've ever read. Of course in times past the closest the Church could probably have come to alligator was maybe crocodile, an animal I doubt they would have allowed either. I bet the Copts would not allow it.

I've been Orthodox for nigh on 50 years, and never have I heard of any priest or hierarch in my neck of the woods allow croc or gator (or, indeed, any reptile) during Lent. They'd be classified as meat, not fish.
If it can live out of water, it's meat?
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline Αριστοκλής

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,026
Re: Alligator for Lent
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2013, 12:09:38 PM »
I really, really like 'gator, but it's not for Orthodox fasting as far as I've ever read. Of course in times past the closest the Church could probably have come to alligator was maybe crocodile, an animal I doubt they would have allowed either. I bet the Copts would not allow it.

I've been Orthodox for nigh on 50 years, and never have I heard of any priest or hierarch in my neck of the woods allow croc or gator (or, indeed, any reptile) during Lent. They'd be classified as meat, not fish.
If it can live out of water, it's meat?

Or rather, live out of water and has blood, it's meat.
"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides

Offline LBK

  • No Reporting Allowed
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,785
  • Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!
  • Faith: Orthodox
Re: Alligator for Lent
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2013, 12:18:51 PM »
I really, really like 'gator, but it's not for Orthodox fasting as far as I've ever read. Of course in times past the closest the Church could probably have come to alligator was maybe crocodile, an animal I doubt they would have allowed either. I bet the Copts would not allow it.

I've been Orthodox for nigh on 50 years, and never have I heard of any priest or hierarch in my neck of the woods allow croc or gator (or, indeed, any reptile) during Lent. They'd be classified as meat, not fish.
If it can live out of water, it's meat?

Or rather, live out of water and has blood, it's meat.

Yup. Got it in one.  :)
« Last Edit: February 15, 2013, 12:19:14 PM by LBK »
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline Jason.Wike

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,046
Re: Alligator for Lent
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2013, 12:26:19 PM »
Eugh. I've never gotten why people eat gator its like rancid fat with a hint of armadillo.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2013, 12:26:44 PM by Jason.Wike »

Offline katherineofdixie

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,718
Re: Alligator for Lent
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2013, 12:26:37 PM »
I really, really like 'gator, but it's not for Orthodox fasting as far as I've ever read. Of course in times past the closest the Church could probably have come to alligator was maybe crocodile, an animal I doubt they would have allowed either. I bet the Copts would not allow it.

I've been Orthodox for nigh on 50 years, and never have I heard of any priest or hierarch in my neck of the woods allow croc or gator (or, indeed, any reptile) during Lent. They'd be classified as meat, not fish.
If it can live out of water, it's meat?

Or rather, live out of water and has blood, it's meat.

Yet another reason for a unified American Orthodox Church, to settle this important issue.  ;)
"If but ten of us lead a holy life, we shall kindle a fire which shall light up the entire city."

 St. John Chrysostom

Offline Agabus

  • The user formerly known as Agabus.
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,736
Re: Alligator for Lent
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2013, 12:50:36 PM »
I really, really like 'gator, but it's not for Orthodox fasting as far as I've ever read. Of course in times past the closest the Church could probably have come to alligator was maybe crocodile, an animal I doubt they would have allowed either. I bet the Copts would not allow it.

I've been Orthodox for nigh on 50 years, and never have I heard of any priest or hierarch in my neck of the woods allow croc or gator (or, indeed, any reptile) during Lent. They'd be classified as meat, not fish.

Because it tastes like chicken?
Alligator most definitely does not taste like chicken.

I've eaten it, but somewhere along the way I decided no more. Crawfish is OK. Catfish is OK. But alligator is just nasty coonass food.
Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

Offline William

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,354
Re: Alligator for Lent
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2013, 01:14:30 PM »
Where do people eat alligator? The Gulf Coast?

I'm leaving for Florida in an hour, will  be able to find some there?
Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Offline Romaios

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,933
Re: Alligator for Lent
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2013, 01:24:08 PM »
I'm leaving for Florida in an hour, will  be able to find some there?

If not, you can always find some python.  :laugh:

Offline Agabus

  • The user formerly known as Agabus.
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,736
Re: Alligator for Lent
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2013, 01:32:41 PM »
Where do people eat alligator? The Gulf Coast?

I'm leaving for Florida in an hour, will  be able to find some there?
According to the Florida agriculture department, yes.

You generally find alligator eating in Gulf coast/tidewater and bayou/coonass communities in Louisiana and Mississippi (as well as any of the city areas where people still speak Acadian French), and you can buy alligator products such as alligator sausage in grocery stores and meat markets throughout central Louisiana. I am not sure about Alabama.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2013, 01:35:30 PM by Agabus »
Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

Offline choy

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,316
Re: Alligator for Lent
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2013, 01:48:02 PM »
Turtle is (apparently) okay as well.

I've seen those turtle soup shops in Hong Kong back in the day it was still allowed.  I can't understand how people can eat this thing, I think its penance by itself to force yourself to eat this.

Offline Nephi

  • Monster Tamer
  • Section Moderator
  • Protokentarchos
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,764
  • Faith: Orthodox
Re: Alligator for Lent
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2013, 01:53:19 PM »
Turtle is (apparently) okay as well.

With a pet turtle there is no way I could eat one, Lent or not.

Offline J Michael

  • Older than dirt; dumber than a box of rocks; colossally ignorant; a little crazy ;-)
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,982
  • Lord, have mercy! I live under a rock. Alleluia!
  • Faith: Catholic
  • Jurisdiction: Eparchy of Passaic
Re: Alligator for Lent
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2013, 01:57:28 PM »
Where do people eat alligator? The Gulf Coast?

I'm leaving for Florida in an hour, will  be able to find some there?
According to the Florida agriculture department, yes.

You generally find alligator eating in Gulf coast/tidewater and bayou/coonass communities in Louisiana and Mississippi (as well as any of the city areas where people still speak Acadian French), and you can buy alligator products such as alligator sausage in grocery stores and meat markets throughout central Louisiana. I am not sure about Alabama.

I prefer my alligators in the form of non- and un-edible shoes, jackets, belts, etc.  They're much nicer looking and longer lasting worn than eaten  ;D ;D.




(Just for the record, I do not actually possess anything made from alligator  ;).)
« Last Edit: February 15, 2013, 02:08:49 PM by J Michael »
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline mike

  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,594
Re: Alligator for Lent
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2013, 03:24:09 PM »
Turtle is (apparently) okay as well.

With a pet turtle there is no way I could eat one, Lent or not.

I used to have a pet rabbit. It wasn't preventing me from eating rabbits.
Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

not everything I typed before [insert current date] may reflect my current views on the subject

Offline xariskai

  • юродивый/yurodivy
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,591
  • יהוה עזי ומגני
  • Faith: Orthodox
Re: Alligator for Lent
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2013, 03:42:19 PM »
I've eaten it, but somewhere along the way I decided no more. Crawfish is OK. Catfish is OK. But alligator is just nasty coonass food.
I had alligator once and thought it was absolutely delicious (not during Lent, lol).
« Last Edit: February 15, 2013, 03:43:34 PM by xariskai »

Offline Jetavan

  • Argumentum ad australopithecum
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,580
  • Barlaam and Josaphat
    • The Mystical Theology
Re: Alligator for Lent
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2013, 03:59:49 PM »
I've eaten it, but somewhere along the way I decided no more. Crawfish is OK. Catfish is OK. But alligator is just nasty coonass food.
I had alligator once and thought it was absolutely delicious (not during Lent, lol).
Tastes like dinosaur?
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline Αριστοκλής

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,026
Re: Alligator for Lent
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2013, 04:16:48 PM »
I've eaten it, but somewhere along the way I decided no more. Crawfish is OK. Catfish is OK. But alligator is just nasty coonass food.
I had alligator once and thought it was absolutely delicious (not during Lent, lol).

Yep. The detractors are all welcomed to my house for MY Alligator in Sauce Piquant, once.
And those who appreciate it, anytime! (Except during lent)  :)
« Last Edit: February 15, 2013, 04:17:54 PM by Αριστοκλής »
"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides

Offline Punch

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,801
Re: Alligator for Lent
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2013, 05:21:21 PM »
During Lent, I cut my steak in the shape of a fish before I grill it.  Sometimes I even call a nice pork tenderloin "land eel".
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline J Michael

  • Older than dirt; dumber than a box of rocks; colossally ignorant; a little crazy ;-)
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,982
  • Lord, have mercy! I live under a rock. Alleluia!
  • Faith: Catholic
  • Jurisdiction: Eparchy of Passaic
Re: Alligator for Lent
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2013, 05:25:16 PM »
During Lent, I cut my steak in the shape of a fish before I grill it.  Sometimes I even call a nice pork tenderloin "land eel".

Excellent!!  Love it!
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline Agabus

  • The user formerly known as Agabus.
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,736
Re: Alligator for Lent
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2013, 07:40:10 PM »
I've eaten it, but somewhere along the way I decided no more. Crawfish is OK. Catfish is OK. But alligator is just nasty coonass food.
I had alligator once and thought it was absolutely delicious (not during Lent, lol).

Yep. The detractors are all welcomed to my house for MY Alligator in Sauce Piquant, once.
And those who appreciate it, anytime! (Except during lent)  :)
I might be open to it that way. But I've been burned too many times after being told that I was eating it wrong or somesuch nonsense.

Do you use farm alligator or wild-harvested?
Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

Offline JoeS2

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,451
  • St. Mark Defender of the true Faith (old CAF guy)
Re: Alligator for Lent
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2013, 10:22:06 PM »
                                     

                                          WHY?

Offline Nephi

  • Monster Tamer
  • Section Moderator
  • Protokentarchos
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,764
  • Faith: Orthodox
Re: Alligator for Lent
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2013, 10:26:53 PM »
I used to have a pet rabbit. It wasn't preventing me from eating rabbits.

I guess I would've found eating turtles disgusting before even owning one, whereas that wouldn't be the case with rabbit even though I haven't ate any that I remember.

Offline podkarpatska

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,506
  • Pokrov
    • ACROD (home)
Re: Alligator for Lent
« Reply #28 on: February 16, 2013, 12:33:50 AM »
Where do people eat alligator? The Gulf Coast?

I'm leaving for Florida in an hour, will  be able to find some there?

I seem to remember seeing alligator bites as a breaded appetizer once at a beach restaurant in Florida.

Offline username!

  • Moderator
  • Protokentarchos
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,083
Re: Alligator for Lent
« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2013, 01:14:22 AM »
I really, really like 'gator, but it's not for Orthodox fasting as far as I've ever read. Of course in times past the closest the Church could probably have come to alligator was maybe crocodile, an animal I doubt they would have allowed either. I bet the Copts would not allow it.

I've been Orthodox for nigh on 50 years, and never have I heard of any priest or hierarch in my neck of the woods allow croc or gator (or, indeed, any reptile) during Lent. They'd be classified as meat, not fish.
If it can live out of water, it's meat?

Or rather, live out of water and has blood, it's meat.

Yet another reason for a unified American Orthodox Church, to settle this important issue.  ;)

Yeah, as long as the "american Orthodox Church" isn't headquartered in Syosett, NY.  Oh wait, the head of the autochephalous churches settled that one, it won't be.  But on a lighter note Alligator fry this weekend... sounds ok compared to mystery fish.

Offline Αριστοκλής

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,026
Re: Alligator for Lent
« Reply #30 on: February 16, 2013, 01:32:33 AM »
I've eaten it, but somewhere along the way I decided no more. Crawfish is OK. Catfish is OK. But alligator is just nasty coonass food.
I had alligator once and thought it was absolutely delicious (not during Lent, lol).

Yep. The detractors are all welcomed to my house for MY Alligator in Sauce Piquant, once.
And those who appreciate it, anytime! (Except during lent)  :)
I might be open to it that way. But I've been burned too many times after being told that I was eating it wrong or somesuch nonsense.

Do you use farm alligator or wild-harvested?

I have used both.

Prefer tail meat ( a whole tail) and Florida over Louisiana, but either will do.
"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides

Offline mike

  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,594
Re: Alligator for Lent
« Reply #31 on: February 16, 2013, 08:00:06 AM »
I've read somewhere Archbishop Demetrius (Royster) was saying alligators are OK.
Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

not everything I typed before [insert current date] may reflect my current views on the subject

Offline username!

  • Moderator
  • Protokentarchos
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,083
Re: Alligator for Lent
« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2013, 08:01:00 PM »
I have only ever had tail meat.

Offline Maria

  • Orthodox Christian
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,779
  • O most Holy Theotokos, save us.
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: GOC
Re: Alligator for Lent
« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2013, 08:29:36 PM »
I've read somewhere Archbishop Demetrius (Royster) was saying alligators are OK.

Alligators and Crocodiles are classified as vertebrates as are fish.
Lizards, snakes, and frogs are also vertebrates.

Thus, such animals with backbones should not be allowable during Great Lent unless the bishop grants economia.

Aren't turtles vertebrates?
Ἅγιος ὁ Θεός
Ἅγιος ἰσχυρός
Ἅγιος ἀθάνατος
ἐλέησον ἡμας

Offline username!

  • Moderator
  • Protokentarchos
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,083
Re: Alligator for Lent
« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2013, 08:03:46 AM »
I've read somewhere Archbishop Demetrius (Royster) was saying alligators are OK.

Alligators and Crocodiles are classified as vertebrates as are fish.
Lizards, snakes, and frogs are also vertebrates.

Thus, such animals with backbones should not be allowable during Great Lent unless the bishop grants economia.

Aren't turtles vertebrates?

Yes turtles are vertebrates.