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Author Topic: The Orthodox Condemnation of Roman Catholicism  (Read 3068 times) Average Rating: 0
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Incognito777
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« on: February 13, 2013, 12:34:46 AM »

For those of you who are not familiar with the Churches teaching on the Latin schismatics, see this video. Roman Catholics have been condemned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDaoRonW1ww&list=UUh074oPigJcEGkWbj7j7zKQ&index=30
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« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2013, 12:37:24 AM »

There are many Orthodox on this forum who are not familiar with the teachings of the Church, but you should really first get to know them before posting your videos otherwise they and others will think you are yet another mindless zealot come to spread a message.
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« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2013, 01:12:05 AM »

Incognito777, you should make a post introducing yourself in the appropriate sub-forum.  Your recent threads have made me very curious about you.
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« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2013, 03:38:40 PM »

You gotta be careful about us RCs. Be sure to keep garlic around your windows, and a wooden stake close at hand.
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« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2013, 03:58:57 PM »

You gotta be careful about us RCs. Be sure to keep garlic around your windows, and a wooden stake close at hand.

No! RC's are cute and huggable!
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« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2013, 04:01:24 PM »

Thank you.
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« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2013, 04:05:13 PM »

For those of you who are not familiar with the Churches teaching on the Latin schismatics, see this video. Roman Catholics have been condemned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDaoRonW1ww&list=UUh074oPigJcEGkWbj7j7zKQ&index=30
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« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2013, 04:07:51 PM »

You gotta be careful about us RCs. Be sure to keep garlic around your windows, and a wooden stake close at hand.

I heard you also are afraid of crosses.  But only those without a corpus carried around by a girl altar server while singing "Amazing Grace".
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« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2013, 04:47:33 PM »

I'm a heretic too, since I use the New Calendar. Glad to be lumped with that evil Papist and those other RC posters we have here.  Roll Eyes

Happy Ash Wednesday!

[/sarcasm]
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« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2013, 06:57:31 PM »

I'm a heretic too, since I use the New Calendar. Glad to be lumped with that evil Papist and those other RC posters we have here.  Roll Eyes

Happy Ash Wednesday!

[/sarcasm]

Wait, do WR Antiochians celebrate Ash Wednesday today?
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« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2013, 07:05:17 PM »

I'm a heretic too, since I use the New Calendar. Glad to be lumped with that evil Papist and those other RC posters we have here.  Roll Eyes

Happy Ash Wednesday!

[/sarcasm]

Wait, do WR Antiochians celebrate Ash Wednesday today?

I think he was sarcastic  Smiley
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« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2013, 07:08:24 PM »

I'm a heretic too, since I use the New Calendar. Glad to be lumped with that evil Papist and those other RC posters we have here.  Roll Eyes

Happy Ash Wednesday!

[/sarcasm]

Wait, do WR Antiochians celebrate Ash Wednesday today?

I think he was sarcastic  Smiley

That is so good to hear!  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2013, 07:21:18 PM »

I'm a heretic too, since I use the New Calendar. Glad to be lumped with that evil Papist and those other RC posters we have here.  Roll Eyes

Happy Ash Wednesday!

[/sarcasm]

Wait, do WR Antiochians celebrate Ash Wednesday today?

I think he was sarcastic  Smiley

That is so good to hear!  Roll Eyes

Yes, I was being sarcastic. And I have no clue what WR Antiochians do.
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« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2013, 07:22:44 PM »

You gotta be careful about us RCs. Be sure to keep garlic around your windows, and a wooden stake close at hand.

I heard you also are afraid of crosses.  But only those without a corpus carried around by a girl altar server while singing "Amazing Grace".
Ughhh, may God grant these priest many happy years... of RETIREMENT!
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« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2013, 11:14:28 PM »

Incognito777, you should make a post introducing yourself in the appropriate sub-forum.  Your recent threads have made me very curious about you.

I am chief among sinners, misfits and wretches. Great is the mercy of God.

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« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2013, 12:29:33 AM »

You gotta be careful about us RCs. Be sure to keep garlic around your windows, and a wooden stake close at hand.

Didn't Vlad the Impaler become a Roman Catholic?
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« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2013, 12:30:58 AM »

I'm a heretic too, since I use the New Calendar. Glad to be lumped with that evil Papist and those other RC posters we have here.  Roll Eyes

Happy Ash Wednesday!

[/sarcasm]

Wait, do WR Antiochians celebrate Ash Wednesday today?

No. Wednesday of Clean Week, IIRC. They're on the non-Finnish Orthodox Paschalion.
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« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2013, 12:32:53 AM »

You gotta be careful about us RCs. Be sure to keep garlic around your windows, and a wooden stake close at hand.

I heard you also are afraid of crosses.  But only those without a corpus carried around by a girl altar server while singing "Amazing Grace".
Ughhh, may God grant these priest many happy years... of RETIREMENT!

According to the Catholic Church Conservation Blog, the Diocese of Linz is fond of twigs instead of crosses. Not sure if that has changed. Hope so.
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« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2013, 06:51:37 AM »

You gotta be careful about us RCs. Be sure to keep garlic around your windows, and a wooden stake close at hand.

Didn't Vlad the Impaler become a Roman Catholic?

He became whatever fit the circumstances better at any given time. But it's too easy to get into vile arguments about him over this.
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« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2013, 10:23:00 PM »

This thread started off goofy, but it got me thinking "what if".

What if the change in the Creed had been done the right way resulting in no schism.  Would the Catholic Church still be in communion with the Orthodox or would a later problem still caused it?
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« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2013, 11:45:04 PM »

This thread started off goofy, but it got me thinking "what if".

What if the change in the Creed had been done the right way resulting in no schism.  Would the Catholic Church still be in communion with the Orthodox or would a later problem still caused it?

Well, the filioque did not cause a schism when first introduced. The Photian Schism had other causes as well, primarily the Pope of Rome taking umbrage with the uncanonical deposition of St. Ignatius by the emperor and his replacement with Photios, who was a layman at the time. Later, when the filioque appeared in pope's systatic letter in the early 11th century, his name was not entered into the diptychs, but this didn't appear at the time as a schism over filioque. Polemical arguments at the time covered filioque with other things, but communion appears to have continued in large part. The major problem was papal supremacy. But even this wasn't a pressing issue until 1100, when the Crusaders, with no objection from the pope, replaced the Patriarch of Antioch with a Latin after capturing the city.
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« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2013, 12:02:01 AM »

You gotta be careful about us RCs. Be sure to keep garlic around your windows, and a wooden stake close at hand.

It was much easier when we just had to watch out for just Augustine, but now all of you?  Instead of a wooden stake would you take a nice ribeye and leave us alone? 
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« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2013, 12:03:50 AM »

^What happens if we oversleep?  You bite us and we become RC's?
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« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2013, 12:46:42 AM »

^What happens if we oversleep?  You bite us and we become RC's?

That settles it, Father! I shall make a documentary on the Great Schism with the Underworld movies.
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« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2013, 02:29:40 AM »

For those of you who are not familiar with the Churches teaching on the Latin schismatics, see this video. Roman Catholics have been condemned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDaoRonW1ww&list=UUh074oPigJcEGkWbj7j7zKQ&index=30

You would do well to be more concerned about the scourge of the Moslems than of the innovative teachings of the Roman Catholics.  While Eastern Orthodoxy may have theological disputes with Catholicism, the Catholic Church is not a bastion imposing evil upon the world.  "Kill them with the sword," were the last words of the Moslem Prophet, a pedophile, his comments said in connection with his command to his followers to persuade non-Moslems to convert to his hearsay, as to those who refuse to convert to it.
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« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2013, 03:36:53 AM »

For those of you who are not familiar with the Churches teaching on the Latin schismatics, see this video. Roman Catholics have been condemned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDaoRonW1ww&list=UUh074oPigJcEGkWbj7j7zKQ&index=30
Among other things, the video speaks of the several Orthodox condemnations of the Gregorian calendar. So according to the teaching on this video with regard to the calendar, does this mean then that any Christian, not just Roman Catholics,  who observes the New Calendar date of Christmas as December 25 is anathematised, condemned, and eternally damned? I don't see anything about the Julian calendar mentioned in the Bible. Is this a teaching from apostolic times, or was this a novel teaching that developed over time in the Eastern Orthodox Church?
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« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2013, 03:42:25 AM »

For those of you who are not familiar with the Churches teaching on the Latin schismatics, see this video. Roman Catholics have been condemned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDaoRonW1ww&list=UUh074oPigJcEGkWbj7j7zKQ&index=30
Among other things, the video speaks of the several Orthodox condemnations of the Gregorian calendar. So according to the teaching on this video with regard to the calendar, does this mean then that any Christian, not just Roman Catholics,  who observes the New Calendar date of Christmas as December 25 is anathematised, condemned, and eternally damned? I don't see anything about the Julian calendar mentioned in the Bible. Is this a teaching from apostolic times, or was this a novel teaching that developed over time in the Eastern Orthodox Church?

Do not be deceived. I am 99.9% sure incognito777 is what is known charitably as a 'schismatic'.
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« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2013, 03:52:34 AM »

For those of you who are not familiar with the Churches teaching on the Latin schismatics, see this video. Roman Catholics have been condemned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDaoRonW1ww&list=UUh074oPigJcEGkWbj7j7zKQ&index=30
Among other things, the video speaks of the several Orthodox condemnations of the Gregorian calendar. So according to the teaching on this video with regard to the calendar, does this mean then that any Christian, not just Roman Catholics,  who observes the New Calendar date of Christmas as December 25 is anathematised, condemfned, and eternally damned? I don't see anything about the Julian calendar mentioned in the Bible. Is this a teaching from apostolic times, or was this a novel teaching that developed over time in the Eastern Orthodox Church?

It was not only the Orthodox but Protestants too who objected in the past to the Papal calendar innovation. Indeed there were riots here in England when it was eventually introduced with the populace demanding back their 11 days. Even in my lifetime I heard reference to Old Christmas from English folk who no idea about Eastern Orthodoxy. The calendar, the liturgical and festal unity that went with it was a sanctification of time.

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« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2013, 06:35:26 AM »

What if the change in the Creed had been done the right way resulting in no schism.  Would the Catholic Church still be in communion with the Orthodox or would a later problem still caused it?

The Byzantine Church could tolerate no difference. The Council of Trullo for example condemned each and every difference they could find with the Armenians and, to a somewhat lesser extent, the Latins. Either the Latin Church would have been Hellenised and Byzantinised or the schism would have happened anyway, even if the Latins would have given up Papal Supremacy.
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« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2013, 07:37:24 PM »

^What happens if we oversleep?  You bite us and we become RC's?
Only when the sun goes down...... Grin

BTW, pertaining to earlier posts, I do believe Vlad the Impaler was Eastern Orthodox.

For a time at least.
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« Reply #30 on: February 17, 2013, 07:54:26 PM »

^What happens if we oversleep?  You bite us and we become RC's?
Only when the sun goes down...... Grin

BTW, pertaining to earlier posts, I do believe Vlad the Impaler was Eastern Orthodox.

For a time at least.

Pertaining to earlier posts, if true, Vlad was normal Orthodox and then got bit and became RC and spread it.  the only thing this proves is that Vlad was not original vampire.   Tongue     Wink
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« Reply #31 on: February 17, 2013, 08:01:35 PM »

Interesting.

If he was indeed "catholic", why the heck was he and other vamps so scared of Crucifixes?

Seems Icons  could never make them scuttle.  Wink

I hate to derail this thread, but I'm having too much fun here.
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« Reply #32 on: February 17, 2013, 11:30:46 PM »

^What happens if we oversleep?  You bite us and we become RC's?
Only when the sun goes down...... Grin

BTW, pertaining to earlier posts, I do believe Vlad the Impaler was Eastern Orthodox.

For a time at least.

Pertaining to earlier posts, if true, Vlad was normal Orthodox and then got bit and became RC and spread it.  the only thing this proves is that Vlad was not original vampire.   Tongue     Wink

According to this thread, RC is condemned and anathematised by the Orthodox Church. But if Vlad Tepes was Roman Catholic at the time of death, why did the Orthodox Church allow him to be  buried in the Orthodox monastery of Snagov?
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« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2013, 12:23:35 AM »

^What happens if we oversleep?  You bite us and we become RC's?
Only when the sun goes down...... Grin

BTW, pertaining to earlier posts, I do believe Vlad the Impaler was Eastern Orthodox.

For a time at least.

Pertaining to earlier posts, if true, Vlad was normal Orthodox and then got bit and became RC and spread it.  the only thing this proves is that Vlad was not original vampire.   Tongue     Wink

According to this thread, RC is condemned and anathematised by the Orthodox Church. But if Vlad Tepes was Roman Catholic at the time of death, why did the Orthodox Church allow him to be  buried in the Orthodox monastery of Snagov?

Maybe it was Vlad Dracul, not Vlad Tepes. We need augustin.
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« Reply #34 on: February 18, 2013, 12:26:32 AM »

^What happens if we oversleep?  You bite us and we become RC's?
Only when the sun goes down...... Grin

BTW, pertaining to earlier posts, I do believe Vlad the Impaler was Eastern Orthodox.

For a time at least.

Pertaining to earlier posts, if true, Vlad was normal Orthodox and then got bit and became RC and spread it.  the only thing this proves is that Vlad was not original vampire.   Tongue     Wink

According to this thread, RC is condemned and anathematised by the Orthodox Church. But if Vlad Tepes was Roman Catholic at the time of death, why did the Orthodox Church allow him to be  buried in the Orthodox monastery of Snagov?

Maybe it was Vlad Dracul, not Vlad Tepes. We need augustin.

I thought they were both the same person?  Huh
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« Reply #35 on: February 18, 2013, 12:33:03 AM »

^What happens if we oversleep?  You bite us and we become RC's?
Only when the sun goes down...... Grin

BTW, pertaining to earlier posts, I do believe Vlad the Impaler was Eastern Orthodox.

For a time at least.

Pertaining to earlier posts, if true, Vlad was normal Orthodox and then got bit and became RC and spread it.  the only thing this proves is that Vlad was not original vampire.   Tongue     Wink

According to this thread, RC is condemned and anathematised by the Orthodox Church. But if Vlad Tepes was Roman Catholic at the time of death, why did the Orthodox Church allow him to be  buried in the Orthodox monastery of Snagov?

Maybe it was Vlad Dracul, not Vlad Tepes. We need augustin.

I thought they were both the same person?  Huh

Vlad Dracul, Vlad Tepes, and Augustin are all separate persons, AFAIK.
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« Reply #36 on: February 18, 2013, 12:34:35 AM »

I had strange bug bites last summer, but I didn't fly out the window at night, so I guess I'm okay.
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« Reply #37 on: February 18, 2013, 12:41:03 AM »

Vlad Dracul, Vlad Tepes, and Augustin are all separate persons, AFAIK.

Lol - Augustin is his own person, but the other two are one and the same guy.

They say that people started calling him "Dracul" (the devil < draco = dragon in Romanian), because he went over to the side of the devil ("s-a dat cu dracul"). He was also a member of some chivalresque society called the "Order of the Dragon".

Pray that Augustin doesn't follow in his footsteps!
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« Reply #38 on: February 18, 2013, 12:52:59 AM »

Vlad II was known as Vlad Dracul. His son, Vlad III was known as Dracula.

It appears that the more luridly evil accounts of Dracula derive from his enemies.
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« Reply #39 on: February 18, 2013, 12:57:23 AM »

Vlad II was known as Vlad Dracul. His son, Vlad III was known as Dracula.

It appears that the more luridly evil accounts of Dracula derive from his enemies.

Sorry, you're right - Dracula is actually supposed to come from "Drăculea" (~Dracul Jr). "Prâslea" (the same suffix) is "Junior", or the "little one" in Romanian folk tales.

Vlad II Dracul and Vlad III the Impaler or "Drăculea" are indeed different persons.

I think it was the father who turned Catholic. Anyways, it turns out that his son was not entombed at the monastery of Snagov - the tomb was opened and there were only some horse bones inside...

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« Reply #40 on: February 18, 2013, 01:15:47 AM »

Wait Vlad Dracul was called Dracul because he became Catholic?
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« Reply #41 on: February 18, 2013, 01:23:42 AM »

Wait Vlad Dracul was called Dracul because he became Catholic?

More likely because he joined the Order of the Dragon.

The theory is that in the eyes of the people he was "of the devil" (al dracu'). The play on words is tempting. But it's not necessarily bad or an insult if you call someone that in Romanian - it can just mean smart or capable, not easily defeated. 
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« Reply #42 on: February 18, 2013, 01:47:50 AM »

I think Vlad Tepesh was Catholic for a while because the ruler of Hungary was, but I do not remember if he was Catholic or Orthodox by the time he kicked the bucket. Lips Sealed
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« Reply #43 on: February 18, 2013, 02:59:26 AM »

I think Vlad Tepesh was Catholic for a while because the ruler of Hungary was, but I do not remember if he was Catholic or Orthodox by the time he kicked the bucket. Lips Sealed
This site gives his religion as Roman Catholic.
http://www.nndb.com/people/439/000113100/
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« Reply #44 on: February 18, 2013, 03:04:43 AM »

I think Vlad Tepesh was Catholic for a while because the ruler of Hungary was, but I do not remember if he was Catholic or Orthodox by the time he kicked the bucket. Lips Sealed
This site gives his religion as Roman Catholic.
http://www.nndb.com/people/439/000113100/


He's yours if you want him!  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #45 on: February 18, 2013, 04:09:51 AM »

I think Vlad Tepesh was Catholic for a while because the ruler of Hungary was, but I do not remember if he was Catholic or Orthodox by the time he kicked the bucket. Lips Sealed
This site gives his religion as Roman Catholic.
http://www.nndb.com/people/439/000113100/


He's yours if you want him!  Roll Eyes
But you have him buried in an Orthodox monastery in Snagov?
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« Reply #46 on: February 18, 2013, 04:12:05 AM »

I think Vlad Tepesh was Catholic for a while because the ruler of Hungary was, but I do not remember if he was Catholic or Orthodox by the time he kicked the bucket. Lips Sealed
This site gives his religion as Roman Catholic.
http://www.nndb.com/people/439/000113100/


He's yours if you want him!  Roll Eyes
But you have him buried in an Orthodox monastery in Snagov?

Nope, just some dead horse bones... His head was sent to the Sultan in Constantinople on a pale, though.
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« Reply #47 on: February 18, 2013, 04:43:02 AM »

I think Vlad Tepesh was Catholic for a while because the ruler of Hungary was, but I do not remember if he was Catholic or Orthodox by the time he kicked the bucket. Lips Sealed
This site gives his religion as Roman Catholic.
http://www.nndb.com/people/439/000113100/


He's yours if you want him!  Roll Eyes
But you have him buried in an Orthodox monastery in Snagov?

Nope, just some dead horse bones... His head was sent to the Sultan in Constantinople on a pale, though.
Many Romanian historians say that he is buried at the Comana monastery. However, according to an article in the Journal of Dracula Studies, Number 4, by C. Rezachevici (2002), the Orthodox monks at the Snagov monastery say he was buried there. In either case, it is claimed that he was RC and buried at an Orthodox monastery.
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« Reply #48 on: February 18, 2013, 05:01:03 AM »

Many Romanian historians say that he is buried at the Comana monastery. However, according to an article in the Journal of Dracula Studies, Number 4, by C. Rezachevici (2002), the Orthodox monks at the Snagov monastery say he was buried there. In either case, it is claimed that he was RC and buried at an Orthodox monastery.

Comana is a monastery he himself built.

It's not unheard of for non-Orthodox monarchs/nobles to be buried in our monasteries. Queen Marie was Anglican and apparently sympathetic to the Bahá'í  - she is buried at Curtea de Argeș, with our other kings and queens. Deus suos agnoscet...
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« Reply #49 on: February 18, 2013, 11:58:21 AM »

Nope, just some dead horse bones... His head was sent to the Sultan in Constantinople on a pale, though.

Why are you giving away the ending of The Godfather? Some people might not have seen it yet.
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« Reply #50 on: February 18, 2013, 12:08:16 PM »

Many Romanian historians say that he is buried at the Comana monastery. However, according to an article in the Journal of Dracula Studies, Number 4, by C. Rezachevici (2002), the Orthodox monks at the Snagov monastery say he was buried there. In either case, it is claimed that he was RC and buried at an Orthodox monastery.

Comana is a monastery he himself built.

It's not unheard of for non-Orthodox monarchs/nobles to be buried in our monasteries. Queen Marie was Anglican and apparently sympathetic to the Bahá'í  - she is buried at Curtea de Argeș, with our other kings and queens. Deus suos agnoscet...

That's sad.
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« Reply #51 on: February 18, 2013, 12:21:53 PM »

My understanding (and I'm afraid that I can't find the sources at the moment so this is from memory) is that Vlad Tepes had returned to the Orthodox Church prior to his death. He certainly did convert to Roman Catholicism at one point, but it appears to have been for political advantage. Of course, being the way he was any return to Orthodoxy might just as easily have been for political gain also. He certainly had the support of his cousin Stefan cel Mare, who was undoubtedly committed to the Orthodox Church. On the other hand Stefan was so preoccupied with defending Moldavia against the Turks that I doubt he would have cared if Vlad was Roman Catholic.

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« Reply #52 on: February 18, 2013, 12:29:46 PM »

Many Romanian historians say that he is buried at the Comana monastery. However, according to an article in the Journal of Dracula Studies, Number 4, by C. Rezachevici (2002), the Orthodox monks at the Snagov monastery say he was buried there. In either case, it is claimed that he was RC and buried at an Orthodox monastery.

Comana is a monastery he himself built.

It's not unheard of for non-Orthodox monarchs/nobles to be buried in our monasteries. Queen Marie was Anglican and apparently sympathetic to the Bahá'í  - she is buried at Curtea de Argeș, with our other kings and queens. Deus suos agnoscet...

That's sad.

Well, they could have thrown her remains out into the street to be eaten by dogs, but she wasn't as bad as Jezebel.
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« Reply #53 on: February 18, 2013, 01:02:48 PM »

Well, they could have thrown her remains out into the street to be eaten by dogs, but she wasn't as bad as Jezebel.

She was no Jezebel indeed. Actually she was very popular - the people loved her. My grandmother had fond memories of seeing her ride her horse at Balcic every morning. She had a kind heart. 
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« Reply #54 on: February 18, 2013, 04:15:19 PM »

"RCs" = "Roman-Rite Catholics"?

Good thread, btw.
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« Reply #55 on: February 18, 2013, 05:41:54 PM »

Quote
Pray that Augustin doesn't follow in his footsteps!
Whose footsteps may I ask? I would appreciate your concern maybe had things been a bit different than they turned out to be. As they are, it kinda rubs me the wrong way. Sorry.
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« Reply #56 on: February 18, 2013, 06:26:22 PM »

"RCs" = "Roman-Rite Catholics"?

Yes. Rebellious Concubines would not really fit.
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« Reply #57 on: February 18, 2013, 06:44:23 PM »

This thread started off goofy, but it got me thinking "what if".

What if the change in the Creed had been done the right way resulting in no schism.  Would the Catholic Church still be in communion with the Orthodox or would a later problem still caused it?

I'm pretty sure that the Schism was inescapable; contrary to popular belief, there wasn't just one sole issue that led to the Schism--such as the Pope or the Filioque--but the result of several factors closing in. I think the biggest issue is simply that the East and West were too geographically separated due to the Balkan Peninsula being invaded, and it was only natural that they would go in different directions.
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« Reply #58 on: February 18, 2013, 06:52:55 PM »

This thread started off goofy, but it got me thinking "what if".

What if the change in the Creed had been done the right way resulting in no schism.  Would the Catholic Church still be in communion with the Orthodox or would a later problem still caused it?

I'm pretty sure that the Schism was inescapable; contrary to popular belief, there wasn't just one sole issue that led to the Schism--such as the Pope or the Filioque--but the result of several factors closing in. I think the biggest issue is simply that the East and West were too geographically separated due to the Balkan Peninsula being invaded, and it was only natural that they would go in different directions.

Except that the Church is not supposed to 'go' in a 'direction'. She is supposed to hold fast the faith once delivered to the saints. Now, I'm not saying that the geographic separation and resulting cultural differences didn't contribute to the Schism. But I am saying that if we have a different faith now, it's because one side didn't do what it was supposed to do, and should have been able to do regardless of geography.
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« Reply #59 on: February 18, 2013, 07:01:30 PM »

This thread started off goofy, but it got me thinking "what if".

What if the change in the Creed had been done the right way resulting in no schism.  Would the Catholic Church still be in communion with the Orthodox or would a later problem still caused it?

I'm pretty sure that the Schism was inescapable; contrary to popular belief, there wasn't just one sole issue that led to the Schism--such as the Pope or the Filioque--but the result of several factors closing in. I think the biggest issue is simply that the East and West were too geographically separated due to the Balkan Peninsula being invaded, and it was only natural that they would go in different directions.

I agree.  The schism was really something that was a slow drifting apart rather than a lightning quick separation.  1054 was a convenient point in history to pin the Great Schism, but there is evidence that communion even continued after 1054 all the way to the Fall of Constantinople.  And by 1054 it shows that there were already a number of disagreements on a number of points and as the years go by it just grew and grew.  The growing schism meant a lack of dialogue and as the theology evolved on both sides, there was no check with the other side to make sure they were still on the same page.

Another big issue is the Reformation.  Although a united Church could have prevented the Reformation.  I've been thinking lately if someone who can make a comparison with Martin Luther and St. Maximos, and if Martin Luther could have had reformed the Church from within (and thus be kept orthodox in teaching) if he had the same avenues at St. Maximos had.  That is, St. Maximos was able to find a Patriarch that supported his position (the Pope of Rome) so he continued the fight within the Church.  Martin Luther did not have anywhere else to run to after Rome told him without question to retract his thesis.  I'm not knowledgable on the matter, but it did seem that Luther wasn't having a dialogue, but rather was being told.  And with no other bishop to support him, what else could he do but leave the Roman Catholic Church?

Now, post reformation, I believe the Roman Catholic Church is slowly falling into Luther's reformation.  I believe Trent is as guilty as Vatican II for the mess the church is in today.  Of course Trent externally displayed traditional Catholic beliefs, the mentality and approach changed significantly since then as an effort to continously respond to Protestant criticism.  The RCChurch seemed to think that they need to respond to and differentiate themselves from the Protestant criticism rather than staying true to their original character.  That is why we have all these Marian Dogmas and Pastor Aeternus, as a response to the Protestant criticism.  This is what I think.
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« Reply #60 on: February 18, 2013, 10:32:19 PM »

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Pray that Augustin doesn't follow in his footsteps!
Whose footsteps may I ask?

As the Noble Qu'rân sayeth:

"Guide us to the Straight Way, the Way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose portion is not wrath, and who go not astray." (Surah 1:6-7)

Hadîth: I asked Allah's Messenger PBUH about the statement of Allah: 1. Gharil maghdubi 'alaihim ("not [the way] of those who earned Your anger"), he replied: "They are the Communists". And 2. Walad dâllîn ("nor of those who went astray"): "The Leftists, they were the ones who went astray".

I would appreciate your concern maybe had things been a bit different than they turned out to be. As they are, it kinda rubs me the wrong way. Sorry.

Indeed, compunction is optimal when self-induced, not inflicted by others.

Prostite i blagoslovite.
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« Reply #61 on: February 18, 2013, 11:05:50 PM »

Now you take it as your  mission to bring me to the "Straight Way" whatever you think that is. With Koran trivia.
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« Reply #62 on: February 18, 2013, 11:09:24 PM »

it's bizarre^

So is your "jurisdiction".
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« Reply #63 on: February 18, 2013, 11:23:22 PM »

it's bizarre^

So is your "jurisdiction".
get over it, man. come on
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« Reply #64 on: February 18, 2013, 11:46:24 PM »

Now you take it as your  mission to bring me to the "Straight Way" whatever you think that is. With Koran trivia.

That would be a mission impossible, in more than one way.

I was but half-serious (on the one half, though - I am dead serious).

I quoted the Qu'ran for a change, because I usually over-quote the Bible. So it was for the sake of variety, sort of...

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« Reply #65 on: February 19, 2013, 12:57:31 PM »

Now you take it as your  mission to bring me to the "Straight Way" whatever you think that is. With Koran trivia.

That would be a mission impossible, in more than one way.

I was but half-serious (on the one half, though - I am dead serious).

I quoted the Qu'ran for a change, because I usually over-quote the Bible. So it was for the sake of variety, sort of...

I have to admit that I too was a little baffled when you started quoting the Qu'ran.
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« Reply #66 on: February 19, 2013, 09:49:19 PM »

Okay, this page isn't officially of the Catholic Church, but its bad taste to deface icons just for a few giggles (and it's not funny anyway).  https://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=163036973846053&set=a.100243983458686.368.100237920125959&type=1
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« Reply #67 on: February 20, 2013, 08:02:53 AM »

stay on track and no more bickering between each other.  Want a koran thread, find the right forum and start one in it.  -username! section moderator
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« Reply #68 on: March 13, 2013, 05:10:43 AM »

I think Vlad Tepesh was Catholic for a while because the ruler of Hungary was, but I do not remember if he was Catholic or Orthodox by the time he kicked the bucket. Lips Sealed

The faith of the Hungarian ruler does not prove anything, otherwise all Romanian rulers would have been catholics, but the Basarab, Mihai Viteazul and Stefan Cel Mare were Orthodox.
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« Reply #69 on: March 13, 2013, 05:17:08 AM »

This thread started off goofy, but it got me thinking "what if".

What if the change in the Creed had been done the right way resulting in no schism.  Would the Catholic Church still be in communion with the Orthodox or would a later problem still caused it?

I'm pretty sure that the Schism was inescapable; contrary to popular belief, there wasn't just one sole issue that led to the Schism--such as the Pope or the Filioque--but the result of several factors closing in. I think the biggest issue is simply that the East and West were too geographically separated due to the Balkan Peninsula being invaded, and it was only natural that they would go in different directions.

I dont agree, georgians were also separated geographically, but they remained orthodox. Copts and Armenians are not really close to each other but they remained oriental orthodox.
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« Reply #70 on: March 13, 2013, 05:51:09 AM »

I think Vlad Tepesh was Catholic for a while because the ruler of Hungary was, but I do not remember if he was Catholic or Orthodox by the time he kicked the bucket. Lips Sealed

The faith of the Hungarian ruler does not prove anything, otherwise all Romanian rulers would have been catholics, but the Basarab, Mihai Viteazul and Stefan Cel Mare were Orthodox.

True - Hungary has absolutely no relevance to either Wallachia or Moldavia as neither principality was ruled by them. Vlad was voievod of Wallachia and so the religion of the Hungarian rulers signifies very little. To the best of my knowledge the overwhelming majority of Wallachian rulers were always Orthodox rather than Roman Catholic (although Radu cel Frumos converted to Islam) and the only Roman Catholic ruler of Moldavia was Latcu Voda.

James
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« Reply #71 on: April 11, 2013, 10:46:17 PM »

Speaking of Orthodox condemnation, I don't quite get what the narrator is talking about in this Orthodox program.

At 21:20, she says that "the Bible is still on the list of forbidden books" for Catholics.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3gtMeUn-GE

I know she is using humor, but I am still confused what she is talking about.
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« Reply #72 on: April 12, 2013, 07:14:01 AM »

Translations of the Bible that had no approved by the Vatican were for several hundreds of years not approved to read for believers.
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« Reply #73 on: April 12, 2013, 06:30:35 PM »

Translations of the Bible that had no approved by the Vatican were for several hundreds of years not approved to read for believers.
Was that just certain translations of the Bible though, or the Bible itself?
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« Reply #74 on: April 12, 2013, 06:35:43 PM »

Translations of the Bible that had no approved by the Vatican were for several hundreds of years not approved to read for believers.
Was that just certain translations of the Bible though, or the Bible itself?

Certain translations were not banned.
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« Reply #75 on: April 12, 2013, 07:30:48 PM »

Translations of the Bible that had no approved by the Vatican were for several hundreds of years not approved to read for believers.
Was that just certain translations of the Bible though, or the Bible itself?

Certain translations were not banned.
OK. She also follows this statement with something else that is funny.
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