Author Topic: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI  (Read 1964 times)

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Offline Peter J

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Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« on: February 11, 2013, 08:25:44 PM »
I'm wondering how many shocking/startling/groundbreaking moves by Pope Benedict we can name.

The most obvious one, of course, is the one just announced today (which already has its own thread in the News section: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th).

Others?
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Offline choy

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Re: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2013, 08:26:53 PM »
Hopefully he'll excommunicate the SSPX before the 28th

Offline Papist

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Re: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2013, 08:27:31 PM »
Hopefully he'll excommunicate the SSPX before the 28th
Why would you say such an awful thing?
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

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Re: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2013, 08:27:39 PM »
Being German.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline choy

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Re: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2013, 08:28:37 PM »
Hopefully he'll excommunicate the SSPX before the 28th
Why would you say such an awful thing?

Excommunicating renegades is awful?

Offline Papist

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Re: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2013, 08:33:01 PM »
Hopefully he'll excommunicate the SSPX before the 28th
Why would you say such an awful thing?

Excommunicating renegades is awful?
The SSPX is in greater agreement with Vatican II than is the run of the mill Fr. Bob who dissents from every manner of Church teaching. We need to keep workign with SSPX pastorally, in order to get them regularized.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 08:33:51 PM by Papist »
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline choy

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Re: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2013, 08:39:42 PM »
The SSPX is in greater agreement with Vatican II than is the run of the mill Fr. Bob who dissents from every manner of Church teaching. We need to keep workign with SSPX pastorally, in order to get them regularized.

They need to be excommunicated until such a time that they are in agreement with Rome.  Given that they do not have a ministry in the Roman Catholic Church yet continuously operates their chapels is a sign of distension against the Pope.  Excommunication doesn't mean the end of the road (why do Roman Catholics think that excommunication is like casting one onto hell?), it just gives a clear signal that they are not to be associated with by everyday Catholics until such a time that all issues have been resolved.

Offline Papist

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Re: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2013, 08:43:05 PM »
The SSPX is in greater agreement with Vatican II than is the run of the mill Fr. Bob who dissents from every manner of Church teaching. We need to keep workign with SSPX pastorally, in order to get them regularized.

They need to be excommunicated until such a time that they are in agreement with Rome.  Given that they do not have a ministry in the Roman Catholic Church yet continuously operates their chapels is a sign of distension against the Pope.  Excommunication doesn't mean the end of the road (why do Roman Catholics think that excommunication is like casting one onto hell?), it just gives a clear signal that they are not to be associated with by everyday Catholics until such a time that all issues have been resolved.
Following this premise, how many bishops and priests would have to excommunicated around the world?
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline Jetavan

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Re: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2013, 08:49:38 PM »
The SSPX is in greater agreement with Vatican II than is the run of the mill Fr. Bob who dissents from every manner of Church teaching. We need to keep workign with SSPX pastorally, in order to get them regularized.

They need to be excommunicated until such a time that they are in agreement with Rome.  Given that they do not have a ministry in the Roman Catholic Church yet continuously operates their chapels is a sign of distension against the Pope.  Excommunication doesn't mean the end of the road (why do Roman Catholics think that excommunication is like casting one onto hell?), it just gives a clear signal that they are not to be associated with by everyday Catholics until such a time that all issues have been resolved.
Following this premise, how many bishops and priests would have to excommunicated around the world?
Wait. I thought you supported excommunication of 'liberal' Catholics?
If you will, you can become all flame.
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Offline Papist

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Re: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2013, 08:51:06 PM »
The SSPX is in greater agreement with Vatican II than is the run of the mill Fr. Bob who dissents from every manner of Church teaching. We need to keep workign with SSPX pastorally, in order to get them regularized.

They need to be excommunicated until such a time that they are in agreement with Rome.  Given that they do not have a ministry in the Roman Catholic Church yet continuously operates their chapels is a sign of distension against the Pope.  Excommunication doesn't mean the end of the road (why do Roman Catholics think that excommunication is like casting one onto hell?), it just gives a clear signal that they are not to be associated with by everyday Catholics until such a time that all issues have been resolved.
Following this premise, how many bishops and priests would have to excommunicated around the world?
Wait. I thought you supported excommunication of 'liberal' Catholics?
My point is that before we go after the SSPX who is almost complete agreement with Rome, why are we not going after truly heretical, liberal, priests and bishops?
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline choy

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Re: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2013, 08:52:06 PM »
The SSPX is in greater agreement with Vatican II than is the run of the mill Fr. Bob who dissents from every manner of Church teaching. We need to keep workign with SSPX pastorally, in order to get them regularized.

They need to be excommunicated until such a time that they are in agreement with Rome.  Given that they do not have a ministry in the Roman Catholic Church yet continuously operates their chapels is a sign of distension against the Pope.  Excommunication doesn't mean the end of the road (why do Roman Catholics think that excommunication is like casting one onto hell?), it just gives a clear signal that they are not to be associated with by everyday Catholics until such a time that all issues have been resolved.
Following this premise, how many bishops and priests would have to excommunicated around the world?

I don't know how many.  But certainly any dissenter would either have to be excommunicated or deposed.  Or both.  The SSPX has so far done more harm than good to the Roman Catholic Church.  I don't see how being suspicious of anyone within your own Church outside your little group promotes a healthy spirituality.

Offline choy

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Re: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2013, 08:52:39 PM »
The SSPX is in greater agreement with Vatican II than is the run of the mill Fr. Bob who dissents from every manner of Church teaching. We need to keep workign with SSPX pastorally, in order to get them regularized.

They need to be excommunicated until such a time that they are in agreement with Rome.  Given that they do not have a ministry in the Roman Catholic Church yet continuously operates their chapels is a sign of distension against the Pope.  Excommunication doesn't mean the end of the road (why do Roman Catholics think that excommunication is like casting one onto hell?), it just gives a clear signal that they are not to be associated with by everyday Catholics until such a time that all issues have been resolved.
Following this premise, how many bishops and priests would have to excommunicated around the world?
Wait. I thought you supported excommunication of 'liberal' Catholics?
My point is that before we go after the SSPX who is almost complete agreement with Rome, why are we not going after truly heretical, liberal, priests and bishops?

Why does it have to be an order?  Besides, the SSPX are more visible and have been on this track for over 30 years.

Offline Papist

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Re: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2013, 09:02:05 PM »
The SSPX is in greater agreement with Vatican II than is the run of the mill Fr. Bob who dissents from every manner of Church teaching. We need to keep workign with SSPX pastorally, in order to get them regularized.

They need to be excommunicated until such a time that they are in agreement with Rome.  Given that they do not have a ministry in the Roman Catholic Church yet continuously operates their chapels is a sign of distension against the Pope.  Excommunication doesn't mean the end of the road (why do Roman Catholics think that excommunication is like casting one onto hell?), it just gives a clear signal that they are not to be associated with by everyday Catholics until such a time that all issues have been resolved.
Following this premise, how many bishops and priests would have to excommunicated around the world?
Wait. I thought you supported excommunication of 'liberal' Catholics?
My point is that before we go after the SSPX who is almost complete agreement with Rome, why are we not going after truly heretical, liberal, priests and bishops?

Why does it have to be an order?  Besides, the SSPX are more visible and have been on this track for over 30 years.
1. The liberals have been on this path since the 1960s.
2. The SSPX actually believes what the Church teaches.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline choy

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Re: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2013, 09:05:06 PM »
1. The liberals have been on this path since the 1960s.
2. The SSPX actually believes what the Church teaches.

No.  The SSPX believes what they believe to be what the RCChurch teaches, not what the RCChurch actually teaches.

Offline Papist

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Re: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2013, 09:06:08 PM »
1. The liberals have been on this path since the 1960s.
2. The SSPX actually believes what the Church teaches.

No.  The SSPX believes what they believe to be what the RCChurch teaches, not what the RCChurch actually teaches.
Not sure I agree with you about that. But let's make this clear. Liberal priests and bishops know that they are dissenting from the Church and do it anyway.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline Shiny

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Re: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2013, 09:07:19 PM »
Getting a Twitter account.

REVOLUTIONARY.
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Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2013, 09:10:34 PM »
Saw thread title.

Entered thread expecting to see the Pope dancing.

Son I am disappoint.

Offline choy

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Re: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2013, 09:10:59 PM »
1. The liberals have been on this path since the 1960s.
2. The SSPX actually believes what the Church teaches.

No.  The SSPX believes what they believe to be what the RCChurch teaches, not what the RCChurch actually teaches.
Not sure I agree with you about that. But let's make this clear. Liberal priests and bishops know that they are dissenting from the Church and do it anyway.

I'm not disagreeing that they are on the same boat as the SSPX.  But the SSPX is an organized group who as a group stands for all things they dissent about.  Liberal priests and bishops aren't as identifiable.  Some of course become known through infamy.  I don't know why you keep bringing up the liberal clerics to this discussion, I only brought up the SSPX.  I'm not saying they should not be excommunicated, so time to let it go.  The issue here is the SSPX.

Offline choy

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Re: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2013, 09:11:34 PM »
Getting a Twitter account.

REVOLUTIONARY.

Perhaps why he is resigning.  Another man is claimed by the internet.  He can't do his job anymore because of that.  ;D

Offline Papist

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Re: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2013, 09:12:51 PM »
1. The liberals have been on this path since the 1960s.
2. The SSPX actually believes what the Church teaches.

No.  The SSPX believes what they believe to be what the RCChurch teaches, not what the RCChurch actually teaches.
Not sure I agree with you about that. But let's make this clear. Liberal priests and bishops know that they are dissenting from the Church and do it anyway.

I'm not disagreeing that they are on the same boat as the SSPX.  But the SSPX is an organized group who as a group stands for all things they dissent about.  Liberal priests and bishops aren't as identifiable.  Some of course become known through infamy.  I don't know why you keep bringing up the liberal clerics to this discussion, I only brought up the SSPX.  I'm not saying they should not be excommunicated, so time to let it go.  The issue here is the SSPX.
I don't think they are heretical. The have issues with some statements from VII, but that does not mean that they are dissenting from the faith. VII was a pastoral council, and if there is good reason to question the way a statement from VII was worded, then so be it. I agree that in some ways the SSPX is disobedient, but I don't think that excommunication is the way to fix the problem.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline biro

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Re: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2013, 09:14:53 PM »
Getting a Twitter account.

REVOLUTIONARY.

Perhaps why he is resigning.  Another man is claimed by the internet.  He can't do his job anymore because of that.  ;D

Yeah, Twitter wars catch everyone, sooner or later. :)
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Offline Jetavan

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Re: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2013, 09:16:37 PM »
Getting a Twitter account.

REVOLUTIONARY.

Perhaps why he is resigning.  Another man is claimed by the internet.  He can't do his job anymore because of that.  ;D
Are you implying that Benedict XVI is spending all his time lurking and posting on orthodoxchristianity.net under an assumed name?
If you will, you can become all flame.
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Offline Shiny

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Re: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2013, 09:17:38 PM »
Getting a Twitter account.

REVOLUTIONARY.

Perhaps why he is resigning.  Another man is claimed by the internet.  He can't do his job anymore because of that.  ;D
Are you implying that Benedict XVI is spending all his time lurking and posting on orthodoxchristianity.net under an assumed name?
Plot Twist, Isa is actually Pope Benedict.
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Re: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2013, 09:24:51 PM »
I knew it!
He will come again with glory to judge the living and the dead. His kingdom will have no end.

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Offline choy

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Re: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2013, 09:32:49 PM »
1. The liberals have been on this path since the 1960s.
2. The SSPX actually believes what the Church teaches.

No.  The SSPX believes what they believe to be what the RCChurch teaches, not what the RCChurch actually teaches.
Not sure I agree with you about that. But let's make this clear. Liberal priests and bishops know that they are dissenting from the Church and do it anyway.

I'm not disagreeing that they are on the same boat as the SSPX.  But the SSPX is an organized group who as a group stands for all things they dissent about.  Liberal priests and bishops aren't as identifiable.  Some of course become known through infamy.  I don't know why you keep bringing up the liberal clerics to this discussion, I only brought up the SSPX.  I'm not saying they should not be excommunicated, so time to let it go.  The issue here is the SSPX.
I don't think they are heretical. The have issues with some statements from VII, but that does not mean that they are dissenting from the faith. VII was a pastoral council, and if there is good reason to question the way a statement from VII was worded, then so be it. I agree that in some ways the SSPX is disobedient, but I don't think that excommunication is the way to fix the problem.

You seem to be confused between excommunication and anathemization (is that a word?).  Excommunication isn't only about heresy.  There are canonical issues and there are theological disputes.  That itself is more than a good enough reason to break communion for now while the dialogue moves forward towards a resolution.

Offline choy

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Re: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2013, 09:33:51 PM »
Getting a Twitter account.

REVOLUTIONARY.

Perhaps why he is resigning.  Another man is claimed by the internet.  He can't do his job anymore because of that.  ;D
Are you implying that Benedict XVI is spending all his time lurking and posting on orthodoxchristianity.net under an assumed name?

Nah.  He wouldn't have time for OC.net given ever growing number of tweeps.

Offline Peter J

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Re: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2013, 10:04:56 PM »
Saw thread title.

Entered thread expecting to see the Pope dancing.

 :laugh:

Maybe I was wrong when I said this forum is the black hole of humor.
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Offline Papist

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Re: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2013, 10:06:57 PM »
Getting a Twitter account.

REVOLUTIONARY.

Perhaps why he is resigning.  Another man is claimed by the internet.  He can't do his job anymore because of that.  ;D
Are you implying that Benedict XVI is spending all his time lurking and posting on orthodoxchristianity.net under an assumed name?

Nah.  He wouldn't have time for OC.net given ever growing number of tweeps.
I never disagree when some one tells me I'm confused. :)
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2013, 11:21:58 PM »
Saw thread title.

Entered thread expecting to see the Pope dancing.

Son I am disappoint.

His inside move to the basket and fall away jumper are awesome. However, his defense is an issue. Also, it's always about him and that's an historic locker room issue. Definitely not a team player...oh....sorry, I thought this was about Melo and the Knicks.

Offline J Michael

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Re: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2013, 01:27:40 PM »
Getting a Twitter account.

REVOLUTIONARY.

Perhaps why he is resigning.  Another man is claimed by the internet.  He can't do his job anymore because of that.  ;D
Are you implying that Benedict XVI is spending all his time lurking and posting on orthodoxchristianity.net under an assumed name?
Plot Twist, Isa is actually Pope Benedict.

LOL!!

That's great--a German Pope masquerading as an Arab Orthodox anti-Pope  ;D ;D.  No wonder he's resigning--the cognitive dissonance must be totally overwhelming  8).
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Offline Jetavan

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Re: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2013, 01:28:47 PM »
Saw thread title.

Entered thread expecting to see the Pope dancing.

Son I am disappoint.

His inside move to the basket and fall away jumper are awesome. However, his defense is an issue. Also, it's always about him and that's an historic locker room issue. Definitely not a team player...oh....sorry, I thought this was about Melo and the Knicks.

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If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
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Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline mabsoota

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Re: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2013, 05:05:31 PM »
i think we should pray for the catholic church lots and lots. it's obviously a big and difficult time for them and the enemy wants to make a mess there.
may God have mercy.

by the way, i don't understand all the stuff in this thread about sspx
(society of something or other about the previous roman patriarch pious the tenth).

1. what does it actually stand for again? (i always get confused)

2. why are they antiChrists / part of the 'illuminati' bringing the end of world etc. etc? (most popular internet opinion if you try and fail to get a straight answer about who they actually are)

3. why are they not the above, but actually a brilliant and special group and helping to keep the catholic church on the straight path? (i met a really nice catholic guy recently that had this opinion, but that was before the resignation and the lightning)

4. i mean why does everyone have really strong feelings about them? what have they been up to?

5. are they not just some minor group within the catholic church that likes to speak in latin? (my understanding so far)

i would like answers to include some brief history of what they did, and an explanation of which groups think they are wonderful and which hate them.
if this can be done without anyone getting offended, that would be great, as i am honestly trying to make sense of  all the rubbish on the internet. i heard nothing about them when i was protestant, and have had nothing from the coptic church on them, so i am really in the dark.
i realise this is orthodoxChristianity.net, so i apologise in advance to all the people i have already offended without meaning to.

Offline Papist

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Re: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2013, 05:20:04 PM »
i think we should pray for the catholic church lots and lots. it's obviously a big and difficult time for them and the enemy wants to make a mess there.
may God have mercy.

by the way, i don't understand all the stuff in this thread about sspx
(society of something or other about the previous roman patriarch pious the tenth).

1. what does it actually stand for again? (i always get confused)

2. why are they antiChrists / part of the 'illuminati' bringing the end of world etc. etc? (most popular internet opinion if you try and fail to get a straight answer about who they actually are)

3. why are they not the above, but actually a brilliant and special group and helping to keep the catholic church on the straight path? (i met a really nice catholic guy recently that had this opinion, but that was before the resignation and the lightning)

4. i mean why does everyone have really strong feelings about them? what have they been up to?

5. are they not just some minor group within the catholic church that likes to speak in latin? (my understanding so far)

i would like answers to include some brief history of what they did, and an explanation of which groups think they are wonderful and which hate them.
if this can be done without anyone getting offended, that would be great, as i am honestly trying to make sense of  all the rubbish on the internet. i heard nothing about them when i was protestant, and have had nothing from the coptic church on them, so i am really in the dark.
i realise this is orthodoxChristianity.net, so i apologise in advance to all the people i have already offended without meaning to.
Here is my understanding:
The Society of Saint Pius X believes that Vatican II is a non-binding council that is in error on some matters. They also believe that that the move from the old Latin mass to the new mass was a big mistake. When the Latin mass very greatly suppressed, the founder of SSPX ordained several bishops without the approval of Rome, in order to continue their traditional Catholic mission. As a result of this act of disobedience, the clergy of SSPX were excommunicated.
Pope Benedict, in an attempt to heal the rift between the Vatican and SSPX, removed the excommunication. Unfortunately, the SSPX remains obstinate in its rejection of VII and so, they remain in cannonical limbo.
The problem with the SSPX is their disobedience to Rome in ordaining bishops without approval from the Pope, and their rejection of VII.
However, the ironic thing is that SSPX is in greater agreement with VII than many of the liberal priests and bishops we have been dealing with over the past 50 years. In fact, one might argue that the SSPX is not so much in disagreement with Rome, as they misunderstand the proper interpretation of VII. While I don't approve of their disobedience, they still remain a healthy corrective to current state of the Church.
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Offline choy

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Re: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2013, 05:44:12 PM »
i think we should pray for the catholic church lots and lots. it's obviously a big and difficult time for them and the enemy wants to make a mess there.
may God have mercy.

by the way, i don't understand all the stuff in this thread about sspx
(society of something or other about the previous roman patriarch pious the tenth).

1. what does it actually stand for again? (i always get confused)

2. why are they antiChrists / part of the 'illuminati' bringing the end of world etc. etc? (most popular internet opinion if you try and fail to get a straight answer about who they actually are)

3. why are they not the above, but actually a brilliant and special group and helping to keep the catholic church on the straight path? (i met a really nice catholic guy recently that had this opinion, but that was before the resignation and the lightning)

4. i mean why does everyone have really strong feelings about them? what have they been up to?

5. are they not just some minor group within the catholic church that likes to speak in latin? (my understanding so far)

i would like answers to include some brief history of what they did, and an explanation of which groups think they are wonderful and which hate them.
if this can be done without anyone getting offended, that would be great, as i am honestly trying to make sense of  all the rubbish on the internet. i heard nothing about them when i was protestant, and have had nothing from the coptic church on them, so i am really in the dark.
i realise this is orthodoxChristianity.net, so i apologise in advance to all the people i have already offended without meaning to.
Here is my understanding:
The Society of Saint Pius X believes that Vatican II is a non-binding council that is in error on some matters. They also believe that that the move from the old Latin mass to the new mass was a big mistake. When the Latin mass very greatly suppressed, the founder of SSPX ordained several bishops without the approval of Rome, in order to continue their traditional Catholic mission. As a result of this act of disobedience, the clergy of SSPX were excommunicated.
Pope Benedict, in an attempt to heal the rift between the Vatican and SSPX, removed the excommunication. Unfortunately, the SSPX remains obstinate in its rejection of VII and so, they remain in cannonical limbo.
The problem with the SSPX is their disobedience to Rome in ordaining bishops without approval from the Pope, and their rejection of VII.
However, the ironic thing is that SSPX is in greater agreement with VII than many of the liberal priests and bishops we have been dealing with over the past 50 years. In fact, one might argue that the SSPX is not so much in disagreement with Rome, as they misunderstand the proper interpretation of VII. While I don't approve of their disobedience, they still remain a healthy corrective to current state of the Church.

Don't forget that Rome clearly stated that they have no active ministry in the Church, yet still operates all their chapels and tells people they are a Roman Catholic chapel.  I think this is the biggest one.

Also Pope Benedict last year said he'll have a decision on this matter by the Fall.  It already almost Spring and he is on the way out of the Papacy and this thing has yet to be brought to a conclusion.

By the way, despite what the SSPX claim they believe, I have never met an SSPX member who believes that the Pauline Mass to be valid.  How can that be "mostly in agreement with the Church" when your normative Liturgy is viewed as invalid?  Can one person be Orthodox and say that only St. Basil's Liturgy is valid and not St. John Chrysostom's?
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 05:46:26 PM by choy »

Offline biro

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Re: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2013, 06:34:59 PM »
i think we should pray for the catholic church lots and lots. it's obviously a big and difficult time for them and the enemy wants to make a mess there.
may God have mercy.

by the way, i don't understand all the stuff in this thread about sspx
(society of something or other about the previous roman patriarch pious the tenth).

1. what does it actually stand for again? (i always get confused)

2. why are they antiChrists / part of the 'illuminati' bringing the end of world etc. etc? (most popular internet opinion if you try and fail to get a straight answer about who they actually are)

3. why are they not the above, but actually a brilliant and special group and helping to keep the catholic church on the straight path? (i met a really nice catholic guy recently that had this opinion, but that was before the resignation and the lightning)

4. i mean why does everyone have really strong feelings about them? what have they been up to?

5. are they not just some minor group within the catholic church that likes to speak in latin? (my understanding so far)

i would like answers to include some brief history of what they did, and an explanation of which groups think they are wonderful and which hate them.
if this can be done without anyone getting offended, that would be great, as i am honestly trying to make sense of  all the rubbish on the internet. i heard nothing about them when i was protestant, and have had nothing from the coptic church on them, so i am really in the dark.
i realise this is orthodoxChristianity.net, so i apologise in advance to all the people i have already offended without meaning to.
Here is my understanding:
The Society of Saint Pius X believes that Vatican II is a non-binding council that is in error on some matters. They also believe that that the move from the old Latin mass to the new mass was a big mistake. When the Latin mass very greatly suppressed, the founder of SSPX ordained several bishops without the approval of Rome, in order to continue their traditional Catholic mission. As a result of this act of disobedience, the clergy of SSPX were excommunicated.
Pope Benedict, in an attempt to heal the rift between the Vatican and SSPX, removed the excommunication. Unfortunately, the SSPX remains obstinate in its rejection of VII and so, they remain in cannonical limbo.
The problem with the SSPX is their disobedience to Rome in ordaining bishops without approval from the Pope, and their rejection of VII.
However, the ironic thing is that SSPX is in greater agreement with VII than many of the liberal priests and bishops we have been dealing with over the past 50 years. In fact, one might argue that the SSPX is not so much in disagreement with Rome, as they misunderstand the proper interpretation of VII. While I don't approve of their disobedience, they still remain a healthy corrective to current state of the Church.

Don't forget that Rome clearly stated that they have no active ministry in the Church, yet still operates all their chapels and tells people they are a Roman Catholic chapel.  I think this is the biggest one.

Also Pope Benedict last year said he'll have a decision on this matter by the Fall.  It already almost Spring and he is on the way out of the Papacy and this thing has yet to be brought to a conclusion.

By the way, despite what the SSPX claim they believe, I have never met an SSPX member who believes that the Pauline Mass to be valid.  How can that be "mostly in agreement with the Church" when your normative Liturgy is viewed as invalid?  Can one person be Orthodox and say that only St. Basil's Liturgy is valid and not St. John Chrysostom's?

People say things like that on this board all the time.
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Offline Peter J

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Re: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« Reply #35 on: February 12, 2013, 08:17:32 PM »
i think we should pray for the catholic church lots and lots. it's obviously a big and difficult time for them and the enemy wants to make a mess there.
may God have mercy.

by the way, i don't understand all the stuff in this thread about sspx
(society of something or other about the previous roman patriarch pious the tenth).

I was going to say that they're Catholicism's main "traditionalist" group, but I see that Papist (Chris) has already posted a much better explanation.  :)
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Offline choy

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Re: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« Reply #36 on: February 12, 2013, 08:20:27 PM »
i think we should pray for the catholic church lots and lots. it's obviously a big and difficult time for them and the enemy wants to make a mess there.
may God have mercy.

by the way, i don't understand all the stuff in this thread about sspx
(society of something or other about the previous roman patriarch pious the tenth).

I was going to say that they're Catholicism's main "traditionalist" group, but I see that Papist (Chris) has already posted a much better explanation.  :)

Part of Roman Catholic Tradition is fealty to the Pope.  So when he says you don't have a ministry, you shouldn't be offering public Masses in your chapels.

Offline Shiny

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Re: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« Reply #37 on: February 12, 2013, 08:25:44 PM »
Getting a Twitter account.

REVOLUTIONARY.

Perhaps why he is resigning.  Another man is claimed by the internet.  He can't do his job anymore because of that.  ;D
Are you implying that Benedict XVI is spending all his time lurking and posting on orthodoxchristianity.net under an assumed name?
Plot Twist, Isa is actually Pope Benedict.

LOL!!

That's great--a German Pope masquerading as an Arab Orthodox anti-Pope  ;D ;D.  No wonder he's resigning--the cognitive dissonance must be totally overwhelming  8).
Or he just can't find himself on the map.
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Offline username!

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Re: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« Reply #38 on: February 12, 2013, 10:43:33 PM »
The SSPX is in greater agreement with Vatican II than is the run of the mill Fr. Bob who dissents from every manner of Church teaching. We need to keep workign with SSPX pastorally, in order to get them regularized.

They need to be excommunicated until such a time that they are in agreement with Rome.  Given that they do not have a ministry in the Roman Catholic Church yet continuously operates their chapels is a sign of distension against the Pope.  Excommunication doesn't mean the end of the road (why do Roman Catholics think that excommunication is like casting one onto hell?), it just gives a clear signal that they are not to be associated with by everyday Catholics until such a time that all issues have been resolved.

don't make me merge the sspx stuff into an existing sspx thread ---username! section moderator

Offline mabsoota

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Re: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« Reply #39 on: February 14, 2013, 07:15:20 PM »
dear username, please post a link and tell me what page to start reading (sorry, i can't bear to wade through 15 pages of 50 posts each...)
the little comments so far are very useful.

for what it's worth, i think the main (?only) good thing about vatican 2 was changing the mass into a language the people speak.
saying you are 'traditionalist', yet insisting 99% people worship in a foreign language (latin) seems to me to be missing the point of all the church missionaries of the first 1,000 years!

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« Reply #40 on: February 14, 2013, 07:19:58 PM »
dear username, please post a link and tell me what page to start reading (sorry, i can't bear to wade through 15 pages of 50 posts each...)
the little comments so far are very useful.

for what it's worth, i think the main (?only) good thing about vatican 2 was changing the mass into a language the people speak.
saying you are 'traditionalist', yet insisting 99% people worship in a foreign language (latin) seems to me to be missing the point of all the church missionaries of the first 1,000 years!

Ironic that we Orthodox talk so much about using the vernacular, when there are probably now more Orthodox who don't understand their worship services than Catholics.

Offline biro

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Re: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« Reply #41 on: February 14, 2013, 07:21:06 PM »
dear username, please post a link and tell me what page to start reading (sorry, i can't bear to wade through 15 pages of 50 posts each...)
the little comments so far are very useful.

for what it's worth, i think the main (?only) good thing about vatican 2 was changing the mass into a language the people speak.
saying you are 'traditionalist', yet insisting 99% people worship in a foreign language (latin) seems to me to be missing the point of all the church missionaries of the first 1,000 years!

Not to be a pain, but Latin was used for hundreds of years in much of Western Europe, and over the years, mutated into the Romance languages. (French, Spanish, Italian, etc.) So, there was a time when it was not too far removed from the public who heard the Mass. Also, they used to teach Latin in Catholic school, at least in North America. That's all I wanted to throw in. I'll go back in the box now.  :-X
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Offline choy

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Re: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« Reply #42 on: February 14, 2013, 07:21:45 PM »
dear username, please post a link and tell me what page to start reading (sorry, i can't bear to wade through 15 pages of 50 posts each...)
the little comments so far are very useful.

for what it's worth, i think the main (?only) good thing about vatican 2 was changing the mass into a language the people speak.
saying you are 'traditionalist', yet insisting 99% people worship in a foreign language (latin) seems to me to be missing the point of all the church missionaries of the first 1,000 years!

Summorum Pontificum is indeed groundbreaking, at least for the RC traditionalists.  I don't mean to turn this thread into about the SSPX, but I really think that next groundbreaking move is long overdue and I wish he would pull the trigger in the next 2 weeks.  With German precision, Pope Benedict has done all the right things and said all the right words, its about time that extremists from both sides (left and right) be sent that message.  He could also throw down a couple of excommunications to the pro-abort politicians in the US just to send a message.

Offline choy

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Re: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« Reply #43 on: February 14, 2013, 07:24:12 PM »
dear username, please post a link and tell me what page to start reading (sorry, i can't bear to wade through 15 pages of 50 posts each...)
the little comments so far are very useful.

for what it's worth, i think the main (?only) good thing about vatican 2 was changing the mass into a language the people speak.
saying you are 'traditionalist', yet insisting 99% people worship in a foreign language (latin) seems to me to be missing the point of all the church missionaries of the first 1,000 years!

Not to be a pain, but Latin was used for hundreds of years in much of Western Europe, and over the years, mutated into the Romance languages. (French, Spanish, Italian, etc.) So, there was a time when it was not too far removed from the public who heard the Mass. Also, they used to teach Latin in Catholic school, at least in North America. That's all I wanted to throw in. I'll go back in the box now.  :-X

Latin was fine when they were confined to Western Europe.  But do you expect the Asians and Africans to learn a totally foreign language?  At least South Americans adopted Spanish (and Portugese for Brazil) which are those Romance Languages.  There is already a lot to learn about the faith as it is, why complicate it further with having people learn a new language?

Offline mabsoota

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Re: Grounding-breaking moves by Pope Benedict XVI
« Reply #44 on: February 14, 2013, 07:45:52 PM »
choy, i said i don't speak latin! (even though i did study it a bit at school)
so what is summorum pontificum?
and why is it groundbreaking?
(my school latin was related to the love affair between dido and aeneas, nothing papal going on there.)

and is opus dei the same as sspx? (i still don't know what sspx stands for).
if not, which one of them is (supposed to be) taking over the world as part of the illuminati?
why do conspiracy theorists believe in aliens and still expect us to take them seriously?
(ok, u can ignore that last question, just in my mind it's related to the others, but you will probably consider it off topic).
sorry, for all the questions, shall i start a new thread on 'mabsoota's great catholic confusion'?