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Author Topic: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th  (Read 16385 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #450 on: February 21, 2013, 09:34:39 AM »


Thanks for the link.
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« Reply #451 on: February 21, 2013, 10:31:25 AM »

I see. And you would separate the two? (Ecclesiology from faithfulness to tradition)

I don't really get it, but okay. Smiley

Do you think you cannot practice your faith just because a bishop is claiming universal ordinary jurisdiction?

I think the issue is more that he claims it dogmatically.

Not necessarily, but when you cannot openly teach against errors embraced and propagated by said infallible and universal bishop and/or his particular church, it does seem to create problems...and cognitive dissonance among those beneath said bishop in such a scheme who happen to know better. Wink

The fight wasn't for me, but there are those who recognize the problems but chose to persevere to remain in that communion in the hopes that they can bring about change.  We should pray for such people and support them.

Key word being "remain". It's not like I left Orthodoxy for Catholicism.

(Well, key for me anyhow. I'm aware of course that there are many Catholics who say "If I were Orthodox, I would convert to Catholicism.")
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« Reply #452 on: February 21, 2013, 11:56:58 AM »

Or maybe the Eastern Pope will do away with the Roman Rite and just use the Byzantine Rite. Wink

That was what I had in mind. Imagine, millions and millions of people thinking they're watching Christmas Pontifical Mass on TV and suddenly there's an iconostasis and the Pope appears in his omophorion and starts with "Blessed is the Kingdom...". It would be even better if it's in Greek  Smiley

No.  He should translate the Divine Liturgy in Latin and people wouldn't know the difference between a Tridentine Mass.  Seriously, nobody speaks Latin.  Grin Cheesy
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« Reply #453 on: February 21, 2013, 12:07:29 PM »

Or maybe the Eastern Pope will do away with the Roman Rite and just use the Byzantine Rite. Wink

That was what I had in mind. Imagine, millions and millions of people thinking they're watching Christmas Pontifical Mass on TV and suddenly there's an iconostasis and the Pope appears in his omophorion and starts with "Blessed is the Kingdom...". It would be even better if it's in Greek  Smiley

No.  He should translate the Divine Liturgy in Latin and people wouldn't know the difference between a Tridentine Mass.  Seriously, nobody speaks Latin.  Grin Cheesy

Italians would understand it somewhat.  I studies Latin and Italian in the Franciscan seminary and would often onfuse the 2.  My Latin professor also taught me Latin and always got a good laugh out of my mistakes.  I remember a Catholic priest asking some Italians how they liked the Mass in Italian, they responded, "Wasn't it always in Italian?"
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« Reply #454 on: February 21, 2013, 12:49:55 PM »

Or maybe the Eastern Pope will do away with the Roman Rite and just use the Byzantine Rite. Wink

That was what I had in mind. Imagine, millions and millions of people thinking they're watching Christmas Pontifical Mass on TV and suddenly there's an iconostasis and the Pope appears in his omophorion and starts with "Blessed is the Kingdom...". It would be even better if it's in Greek  Smiley
Given its present rules, it can happen now.  Question: why doesn't it? Roll Eyes
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« Reply #455 on: February 21, 2013, 01:38:13 PM »

Or maybe the Eastern Pope will do away with the Roman Rite and just use the Byzantine Rite. Wink

That was what I had in mind. Imagine, millions and millions of people thinking they're watching Christmas Pontifical Mass on TV and suddenly there's an iconostasis and the Pope appears in his omophorion and starts with "Blessed is the Kingdom...". It would be even better if it's in Greek  Smiley

No.  He should translate the Divine Liturgy in Latin and people wouldn't know the difference between a Tridentine Mass.  Seriously, nobody speaks Latin.  Grin Cheesy

I do  Shocked

And did you watch the video of Patriarch John X's enthronement liturgy? One of the supplications was in Latin. So a Latin DL is possible. Erasmus translated the DL in Latin, I think.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 01:42:24 PM by Cyrillic » Logged

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« Reply #456 on: February 21, 2013, 01:38:50 PM »

Or maybe the Eastern Pope will do away with the Roman Rite and just use the Byzantine Rite. Wink

That was what I had in mind. Imagine, millions and millions of people thinking they're watching Christmas Pontifical Mass on TV and suddenly there's an iconostasis and the Pope appears in his omophorion and starts with "Blessed is the Kingdom...". It would be even better if it's in Greek  Smiley
Given its present rules, it can happen now.  Question: why doesn't it? Roll Eyes

It has happened in the past.

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« Reply #457 on: February 21, 2013, 02:07:30 PM »

Or maybe the Eastern Pope will do away with the Roman Rite and just use the Byzantine Rite. Wink

That was what I had in mind. Imagine, millions and millions of people thinking they're watching Christmas Pontifical Mass on TV and suddenly there's an iconostasis and the Pope appears in his omophorion and starts with "Blessed is the Kingdom...". It would be even better if it's in Greek  Smiley

No.  He should translate the Divine Liturgy in Latin and people wouldn't know the difference between a Tridentine Mass.  Seriously, nobody speaks Latin.  Grin Cheesy

I do  Shocked

And did you watch the video of Patriarch John X's enthronement liturgy? One of the supplications was in Latin. So a Latin DL is possible. Erasmus translated the DL in Latin, I think.
My priest does all the "inaudible" prayers during DL in Latin, and does the Hours in Latin.
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« Reply #458 on: February 21, 2013, 04:22:08 PM »

Or maybe the Eastern Pope will do away with the Roman Rite and just use the Byzantine Rite. Wink

That was what I had in mind. Imagine, millions and millions of people thinking they're watching Christmas Pontifical Mass on TV and suddenly there's an iconostasis and the Pope appears in his omophorion and starts with "Blessed is the Kingdom...". It would be even better if it's in Greek  Smiley
Given its present rules, it can happen now.  Question: why doesn't it? Roll Eyes
Because of the significant price and effort involved in converting thousands of sanctuaries into ones acceptable for use in the Eastern Rites and training priests to practice them?
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« Reply #459 on: February 21, 2013, 04:30:08 PM »

Or maybe the Eastern Pope will do away with the Roman Rite and just use the Byzantine Rite. Wink

That was what I had in mind. Imagine, millions and millions of people thinking they're watching Christmas Pontifical Mass on TV and suddenly there's an iconostasis and the Pope appears in his omophorion and starts with "Blessed is the Kingdom...". It would be even better if it's in Greek  Smiley
Given its present rules, it can happen now.  Question: why doesn't it? Roll Eyes
Because of the significant price and effort involved in converting thousands of sanctuaries into ones acceptable for use in the Eastern Rites and training priests to practice them?
I've seen it done many a time, with far less resources than the Vatican has.

Roll out an icon screen across the boundary of the nave and transept, get those "Italo-Greek Albanian Catholics" whose Metropolitan resides in the Vatican (their only remaining monastery is located in Rome), and voila!
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« Reply #460 on: February 21, 2013, 04:34:15 PM »

Roll out an icon screen across the boundary of the nave and transept, get those "Italo-Greek Albanian Catholics" whose Metropolitan resides in the Vatican (their only remaining monastery is located in Rome), and voila!

Not much left there...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXhybe--Ovs

This is their commercial video: Basilian Monks of Grottaferrata
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 04:36:37 PM by Romaios » Logged
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« Reply #461 on: February 21, 2013, 04:35:14 PM »

Or maybe the Eastern Pope will do away with the Roman Rite and just use the Byzantine Rite. Wink

That was what I had in mind. Imagine, millions and millions of people thinking they're watching Christmas Pontifical Mass on TV and suddenly there's an iconostasis and the Pope appears in his omophorion and starts with "Blessed is the Kingdom...". It would be even better if it's in Greek  Smiley
Given its present rules, it can happen now.  Question: why doesn't it? Roll Eyes
Because of the significant price and effort involved in converting thousands of sanctuaries into ones acceptable for use in the Eastern Rites and training priests to practice them?

NVM, did not read context...
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 04:36:38 PM by sheenj » Logged
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« Reply #462 on: February 21, 2013, 05:20:22 PM »

Or maybe the Eastern Pope will do away with the Roman Rite and just use the Byzantine Rite. Wink

That was what I had in mind. Imagine, millions and millions of people thinking they're watching Christmas Pontifical Mass on TV and suddenly there's an iconostasis and the Pope appears in his omophorion and starts with "Blessed is the Kingdom...". It would be even better if it's in Greek  Smiley
Given its present rules, it can happen now.  Question: why doesn't it? Roll Eyes
Because of the significant price and effort involved in converting thousands of sanctuaries into ones acceptable for use in the Eastern Rites and training priests to practice them?

Just give them a book with the rubrics to follow.  I heard RC priests are very good at following rubrics.


 Roll Eyes
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« Reply #463 on: February 21, 2013, 05:41:36 PM »

Roll out an icon screen across the boundary of the nave and transept, get those "Italo-Greek Albanian Catholics" whose Metropolitan resides in the Vatican (their only remaining monastery is located in Rome), and voila!

Not much left there...

therein lies a cautionary tale.
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« Reply #464 on: February 21, 2013, 05:41:54 PM »

Or maybe the Eastern Pope will do away with the Roman Rite and just use the Byzantine Rite. Wink

That was what I had in mind. Imagine, millions and millions of people thinking they're watching Christmas Pontifical Mass on TV and suddenly there's an iconostasis and the Pope appears in his omophorion and starts with "Blessed is the Kingdom...". It would be even better if it's in Greek  Smiley

Given its present rules, it can happen now.  Question: why doesn't it? Roll Eyes
Because of the significant price and effort involved in converting thousands of sanctuaries into ones acceptable for use in the Eastern Rites and training priests to practice them?

Just give them a book with the rubrics to follow.  I heard RC priests are very good at following rubrics.


 Roll Eyes

HA!  Not since Vatican II.  When I was with the Franciscans, I was working on my Masters in Liturgical Studies at Notre Dame.  We were told if a priest wanted to "experiment" with the Liturgy, there were enough options in the liturgical books to use.  The Guardian at our friary, refused to follow the rubrics and did whatever he felt like, which drove me crazy, and finally pushed me out of the Franciscans and out of the Catholic church into Orthodoxy.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 05:44:22 PM by Monk Vasyl » Logged

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« Reply #465 on: February 21, 2013, 05:57:31 PM »

HA!  Not since Vatican II.  When I was with the Franciscans, I was working on my Masters in Liturgical Studies at Notre Dame.  We were told if a priest wanted to "experiment" with the Liturgy, there were enough options in the liturgical books to use.  The Guardian at our friary, refused to follow the rubrics and did whatever he felt like, which drove me crazy, and finally pushed me out of the Franciscans and out of the Catholic church into Orthodoxy.

So I guess no open door Anaphoras for you?
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« Reply #466 on: February 21, 2013, 06:47:09 PM »

Rev. James Martin, S.J.:

Quote
Here are 12 reasons why you should elect me pope, which I'm calling: Twelve Reasons Why You Should Elect Me Pope.

1. I'm a man. That's half the battle, right?

2. I'm baptized. And I've got the papers to prove it. No birther controversy here.
....
9. Educated. The Jesuit training process is really, really, really long. I can't even remember how many years I was in studies. That means that I studied philosophy (good to know), theology (really good to know) and a whole lot of other stuff like church history, which I think would be pretty helpful as pope. And guess what? I know Ancient Greek, too. That really impresses the scholarly types in the church. E.g., when scholars ask me, "What translation of the New Testament are you using?" I'll say, "My translation." They love that kind of thing. Plus, that appeals to the Ancient-Greek-speaking demographic that the church may have given up on.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 06:50:34 PM by Jetavan » Logged

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« Reply #467 on: February 21, 2013, 07:28:13 PM »

Roll out an icon screen across the boundary of the nave and transept, get those "Italo-Greek Albanian Catholics" whose Metropolitan resides in the Vatican (their only remaining monastery is located in Rome), and voila!

Not much left there...

therein lies a cautionary tale.

Chevetogne (Belgium) seems to be doing much better.


Monastère de Chevetogne
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 07:30:18 PM by Romaios » Logged
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« Reply #468 on: February 22, 2013, 01:48:26 AM »

Or maybe the Eastern Pope will do away with the Roman Rite and just use the Byzantine Rite. Wink

That was what I had in mind. Imagine, millions and millions of people thinking they're watching Christmas Pontifical Mass on TV and suddenly there's an iconostasis and the Pope appears in his omophorion and starts with "Blessed is the Kingdom...". It would be even better if it's in Greek  Smiley
Given its present rules, it can happen now.  Question: why doesn't it? Roll Eyes

It has happened in the past.



Wow, nice pic.  Which Pope is that?
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« Reply #469 on: February 22, 2013, 04:22:18 AM »

With that headgear, I think Pope Paul VI. But I'm guessing.
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« Reply #470 on: February 22, 2013, 04:26:35 AM »

Or maybe the Eastern Pope will do away with the Roman Rite and just use the Byzantine Rite. Wink

That was what I had in mind. Imagine, millions and millions of people thinking they're watching Christmas Pontifical Mass on TV and suddenly there's an iconostasis and the Pope appears in his omophorion and starts with "Blessed is the Kingdom...". It would be even better if it's in Greek  Smiley
Given its present rules, it can happen now.  Question: why doesn't it? Roll Eyes

It has happened in the past.



Wow, nice pic.  Which Pope is that?

John XXXIII
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« Reply #471 on: February 22, 2013, 04:40:26 AM »

John XXXIII

I didn't realize there were that many Popes named John as of today.
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« Reply #472 on: February 22, 2013, 08:26:14 AM »

John XXXIII

I didn't realize there were that many Popes named John as of today.

I can't tell if you're joking (the joys of the internet!)  angel but Cyrillic put in one too many "X"s.  He meant John XXIII.
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« Reply #473 on: February 22, 2013, 08:29:37 AM »

John XXXIII

I didn't realize there were that many Popes named John as of today.

I can't tell if you're joking (the joys of the internet!)  angel but Cyrillic put in one too many "X"s.  He meant John XXIII.

Oops  Embarrassed
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« Reply #474 on: February 22, 2013, 09:16:46 AM »

John XXXIII

I didn't realize there were that many Popes named John as of today.

I can't tell if you're joking (the joys of the internet!)  angel but Cyrillic put in one too many "X"s.  He meant John XXIII.
Although there have been more: the late supreme pontiff specifically took the XXIII to make the real Pope John XXIII (1410–1415) an "anti-pope" five centuries and a half after his papacy.
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« Reply #475 on: February 22, 2013, 09:23:27 AM »

Or maybe the Eastern Pope will do away with the Roman Rite and just use the Byzantine Rite. Wink

That was what I had in mind. Imagine, millions and millions of people thinking they're watching Christmas Pontifical Mass on TV and suddenly there's an iconostasis and the Pope appears in his omophorion and starts with "Blessed is the Kingdom...". It would be even better if it's in Greek  Smiley
Given its present rules, it can happen now.  Question: why doesn't it? Roll Eyes

It has happened in the past.



He seems to be looking at the guy in front of him, murmuring, "Am I holding these right?" "You're holding them fine but you've dripped some wax down the back of my neck."
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« Reply #476 on: February 22, 2013, 09:47:01 AM »

Pope John Paul II, also celebrated the divine Liturgy with the Ukrainians, but wore Latin Rite vestments:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LQDaRZKzU0&playnext=1&list=PL121DCD9C9C7A16D3&feature=results_main
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« Reply #477 on: February 22, 2013, 10:11:03 AM »

John XXXIII

I didn't realize there were that many Popes named John as of today.

I can't tell if you're joking (the joys of the internet!)  angel but Cyrillic put in one too many "X"s.  He meant John XXIII.
Although there have been more: the late supreme pontiff specifically took the XXIII to make the real Pope John XXIII (1410–1415) an "anti-pope" five centuries and a half after his papacy.

I don't know if this branch will sprout, but in case it does I've started a thread Ialmisry on Anti-Pope John XXIII.
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« Reply #478 on: February 24, 2013, 11:10:54 AM »

Pope, on last Sunday, says following God's wishes

The Lord is calling me to climb onto the mountain, to dedicate myself even more to prayer and meditation," he said to cheers of "Long Live the Pope".

"But this does not mean abandoning the Church. Actually, if God asks this of me, it is precisely because I can continue to serve her with the same dedication and the same love I have shown so far," he said.

But he said he would be serving the Church "in a way more in keeping with my age and my forces".


http://news.yahoo.com/pope-last-sunday-says-following-gods-wishes-142139668.html
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« Reply #479 on: February 24, 2013, 11:59:03 AM »

What if they elect him again?
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« Reply #480 on: February 24, 2013, 02:33:14 PM »

What if they elect him again?

Cheesy
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« Reply #481 on: February 24, 2013, 02:37:18 PM »

What if they elect him again?

Or if they elect Patriarch Cyrill?
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« Reply #482 on: February 24, 2013, 02:59:36 PM »

What if they elect him again?

Or if they elect Patriarch Cyrill?

Huzzah!
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« Reply #483 on: February 24, 2013, 03:44:30 PM »

What if they elect him again?

I know you are being clever, but a question for the RC experts, can someone choose not serve (or whatever word is most appropriate) as Pope. If the office is declined, is there a penance?
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« Reply #484 on: February 24, 2013, 04:57:56 PM »

Choose your pope!
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« Reply #485 on: February 24, 2013, 07:46:30 PM »


The folks posting that apparently are (1): not aware of what constitutes satire and (2): I would hate to see what they think of us Orthodox.
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« Reply #486 on: February 24, 2013, 08:18:15 PM »

I mean, soon to be Cardinal Ratzinger again is the most qualified to be Pope.  Aside from being a well respected theologian in and outside of the Roman Catholic Church, his experience as Pope is unparalleled by any other living bishop today.  Wink
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« Reply #487 on: February 24, 2013, 08:22:44 PM »


The folks posting that apparently are (1): not aware of what constitutes satire and (2): I would hate to see what they think of us Orthodox.

Well from stuff I've read on his blog he kind of has dumb ideas about how Orthodoxy "rejects the atonement" or something. But his videos are funny.
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« Reply #488 on: February 25, 2013, 10:22:22 AM »

What if they elect him again?

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« Reply #489 on: February 25, 2013, 04:10:30 PM »

What if they elect him again?

Cool. It's been a while since we had a two-term pope.  Cool
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« Reply #490 on: February 25, 2013, 04:29:54 PM »


The folks posting that apparently are (1): not aware of what constitutes satire and (2): I would hate to see what they think of us Orthodox.

I don't know, aside from the jab in the credits (and the show is Lutheran Satire), it was remarkably positive toward the Roman Catholic Church's traditional stance. As far as a satire goes, it was a dead-on shot at a lot of the really inane statements made by the peanut gallery (I include us Orthodox OC.netters in that category) as to what is needed in the next pope. More ire was directed at the Episcopal Church and Glee than at the Vatican- and I am totally okay with that.
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« Reply #491 on: February 25, 2013, 05:06:58 PM »

Or maybe the Eastern Pope will do away with the Roman Rite and just use the Byzantine Rite. Wink

That was what I had in mind. Imagine, millions and millions of people thinking they're watching Christmas Pontifical Mass on TV and suddenly there's an iconostasis and the Pope appears in his omophorion and starts with "Blessed is the Kingdom...". It would be even better if it's in Greek  Smiley

Actually, it would have more impac if he said it in Italian.
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« Reply #492 on: February 25, 2013, 06:40:01 PM »

More ire was directed at the Episcopal Church and Glee than at the Vatican- and I am totally okay with that.

I am shocked -- shocked -- to learn that criticism of the Episcopal Church is going on here!
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« Reply #493 on: February 25, 2013, 06:44:24 PM »

More ire was directed at the Episcopal Church and Glee than at the Vatican- and I am totally okay with that.

I am shocked -- shocked -- to learn that criticism of the Episcopal Church is going on here!

Your winnings, sir.
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« Reply #494 on: February 26, 2013, 11:58:17 AM »

What if they elect him again?

Cool. It's been a while since we had a two-term pope.  Cool

Just when I thought I was out...

http://youtu.be/UPw-3e_pzqU
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