Author Topic: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th  (Read 23350 times)

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Offline Santagranddad

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Come 1st March, 2013, the will come a great leveller among Catholics as they are all reduced to membership of the 'sede vacante' club.

Offline Santagranddad

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I hope that its not that African Cardinal ( Peter Tongo something)
I heard rumors that he might be an Afro Marxist eho would either favor third world nations over the desperately needed re evangelization of European nations.  He could also try to liberalize or Africanize the RC liturgy and theology / morality.  We need to reme.mber as Belloc said Europe is the faith and vis a versa. Other nations have the place but we should always take care of our mother first

they haven't elected a bishop of Rome for some time.  It's been an election for "supreme pontiff," in which Italy is just another province.

Maybe he can stay on as archbishop of Rome for the Vatican, and let them elect a different "supreme pontiff."
There is no Archbishop of Rome, because the leader of the Diocese of Rome is entitled the Bishop of Rome, of which the office of the Pope is the same.
this is the bishop of Rome


As for the Vatican hierarchy, I am aware that the archbishoprick of Rome has been abolished, like the Patriarchate of the West, in favor of the "supreme pontiff."

I'm not even going to argue your semantics game, but that diocese has always just been that, a diocese, not an archdiocese.

(And to argue your point, that is the Metropolitian of Italy, not Rome)

Oh dear, I was beginning wonder if this was pantomime and when were we due to shout, "he's behind you!"

Seriously, since when can the Romanians simply parachute someone in and 'take' over or claim back the See. And even more odd that such a pretence, if indeed that were ever the Romanians intent, should come from the ecumenist Romanian Patriarchate.

Offline J Michael

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Does the Pope's resignation reflect a more Western, CEO model of ministry, as compared to the Orthodox, more 'fatherly', model of ministry?

Why would it?
In other words, does Orthodoxy see it as part of its tradition, the idea that patriarchs or bishops can resign voluntarily?


They can and did.

Anyone in particular come to mind?

Metropolitan Jonah? To name the most recent one...

Indeed.  I'd forgotten.  Thanks!
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Offline age234

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An email sent from the GOARCH press office to their email subscribers.

[edit] link: http://www.goarch.org/news/epbartholomew-benedict-02112013

Thank you. I ask you to observe our copyright policy next time.

Will do. At the time I posted I didn't realize it was also on their website, so I wanted to provide context since it was an email. I'll check their website first next time.

Offline J Michael

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Come 1st March, 2013, the will come a great leveller among Catholics as they are all reduced to membership of the 'sede vacante' club.

We'll be just fine  ;).
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline age234

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Let the betting begin:

"Ladbrokes yesterday made Cardinal Turkson the 5/2 favourite to replace Pope Benedict XVI.

Cardinal Turkson, as in Cardinal Peter Turkson?

> Inb4 Peter the Roman and the end of the world.

 ;D
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 12:54:15 PM by age234 »

Offline Cyrillic

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Isn't it strange that there's never been an American Pope? There's even been a Dutch one.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 01:04:27 PM by Cyrillic »
At nunc desertis cessant sacraria lucis:
aurum omnes victa iam pietate colunt.
-Propertius, Elegies III.XIII:47-48

νίκας τοῖς Βασιλεῦσι κατὰ βαρβάρων δωρούμενος

Offline J Michael

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Isn't it strange that there's never been an American Pope?

Not really.

There's never been a Pope from Ireland.  Or anywhere in Latin America.  Or Australia/New Zealand.  Or anywhere in the Far East.  Or.......
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 01:09:05 PM by J Michael »
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Offline Santagranddad

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I'm trying to imagine one from Texas!

Offline Cyrillic

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Isn't it strange that there's never been an American Pope?

Not really.

American churchmen aren't pious or devious enough?
At nunc desertis cessant sacraria lucis:
aurum omnes victa iam pietate colunt.
-Propertius, Elegies III.XIII:47-48

νίκας τοῖς Βασιλεῦσι κατὰ βαρβάρων δωρούμενος

Offline J Michael

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Isn't it strange that there's never been an American Pope?

Not really.

American churchmen aren't pious or devious enough?

See my edit above.

I never said or implied either.
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

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Offline J Michael

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I'm trying to imagine one from Texas!

Better there than from Illinois  ;D ;D.
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline J Michael

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Isn't it strange that there's never been an American Pope? There's even been a Dutch one.


Quote
There have been 217 popes from Italy, 17 from France, 13 from Greece, 8 from Germany, 6 from Syria, 3 from Africa, 2 from Portugal, 2 from Spain, and one each from Galilee (Palestine) (Saint Peter), England (Pope Adrian IV), the Netherlands (Adrian VI) and Poland (John Paul II).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Popes_by_nationality
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Offline Monk Vasyl

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I remember a quote from my old RC days..."He who goes in (to conclave) a pope, comes out a cardinal."
The unworthy hierodeacon, Vasyl

Offline Jetavan

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"Msgr. Guido Marini, the Master of Pontifical Liturgical Celebrations, told The Associated Press that under the terms of the event's constitution, [the conclave] must be held 15 to 20 days after the period of sede vacanate, or "empty chair," begins Feb. 28. Doing the math, that means the conclave would begin somewhere between Friday, March 15, and Wednesday, March 20.
....
In all honesty, that 15-20 day delay is built into the rules largely to accommodate the circumstances surrounding a papal death, such as the need for cardinals around the world to drop everything and scramble to Rome, as well as allowances for the prescribed period of mourning for the dead pope and the funeral Mass. Since those things aren't required this time, the conclave probably could begin much earlier -- but this is the Vatican, and rules are rules."
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
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Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline J Michael

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"Msgr. Guido Marini, the Master of Pontifical Liturgical Celebrations, told The Associated Press that under the terms of the event's constitution, [the conclave] must be held 15 to 20 days after the period of sede vacanate, or "empty chair," begins Feb. 28. Doing the math, that means the conclave would begin somewhere between Friday, March 15, and Wednesday, March 20.
....
In all honesty, that 15-20 day delay is built into the rules largely to accommodate the circumstances surrounding a papal death, such as the need for cardinals around the world to drop everything and scramble to Rome, as well as allowances for the prescribed period of mourning for the dead pope and the funeral Mass. Since those things aren't required this time, the conclave probably could begin much earlier -- but this is the Vatican, and rules are rules."

Smack in the middle of Great Lent.  Perhaps that is very good timing.
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline Jetavan

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"Msgr. Guido Marini, the Master of Pontifical Liturgical Celebrations, told The Associated Press that under the terms of the event's constitution, [the conclave] must be held 15 to 20 days after the period of sede vacanate, or "empty chair," begins Feb. 28. Doing the math, that means the conclave would begin somewhere between Friday, March 15, and Wednesday, March 20.
....
In all honesty, that 15-20 day delay is built into the rules largely to accommodate the circumstances surrounding a papal death, such as the need for cardinals around the world to drop everything and scramble to Rome, as well as allowances for the prescribed period of mourning for the dead pope and the funeral Mass. Since those things aren't required this time, the conclave probably could begin much earlier -- but this is the Vatican, and rules are rules."

Smack in the middle of Great Lent.  Perhaps that is very good timing.
Perhaps in time for the Spring Equinox, March 20.
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline biro

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At least in the intervening time, we'll get to see lots of pretty footage of the Vatican on EWTN.

Offline CoptoGeek

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Metropolitan Hilarion of Volokolamsk comments on reports about Pope Benedict XVI’s retirement

excerpt:

We are grateful to Pope Benedict XVI for his understanding of the problems which impede the full normalization of Orthodox-Catholic relations, especially in such regions as western Ukraine. Only yesterday I spoke about Pope Benedict XVI in my talk on Russia-24 TV network with the new Russian ambassador to the Holy See, A. A. Avdeyev. I pointed out that relations between the Russian Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church have acquired positive dynamic after his ascension to the See of Rome. He enjoys great respect in the Christian world. He is a prominent theologian, who is well versed in the tradition of the Orthodox Church while having the sensitivity that makes it possible for him to build relations with Orthodox Church on due level.

My personal meetings and talks with Pope Benedict XVI remain memorable for me. There have been three meetings since I was appointed chairman of the DECR. In my talks with the pontiff I was always amazed by his calm and thoughtful reaction, his sensitivity to issues we raised, his desire to solve together the problems arising in our relations. Specifically, I set forth in detail to the pope my vision of the problems we have encountered in pan-Orthodox – Catholic dialogue (I made a report about these problems to the recent Bishops’ Council, and it made appropriate decisions). My attitude to the progress of this dialogue is very critical, which I frankly stated to the pope and he always showed understanding.

Even before his ascension to the See of Rome, Cardinal Ratzinger declared war on ‘the dictatorship of relativism’ so typical for the Western society today. It immediately made him unpopular in the eyes of secular politicians and journalists. Pope Benedict XVI is not a media star. He is a man of the Church. In the mass media, he is continuously criticized for traditionalism and conservatism, but precisely these merits of his are of credit for millions of Christians, both Catholic and non-Catholic, those who seek to preserve traditional Christian spiritual and moral values.

It remains only to hope that his successor will continue walking along the same path and that Orthodox-Catholic relations will continue developing progressively for the common good of the whole Christendom.


http://www.pravmir.com/metropolitan-hilarion-of-volokolamsk-comments-on-reports-about-pope-benedict-xvis-retirement/
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Offline Jetavan

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This resignation is PBXVI's small, but significant, contribution toward an eventual reunion with the Orthodox. By voluntarily resigning now, he's slowly returning the papacy to a more collegial level, since fellow bishops already have to request retirement at 75. A journey of a thousand miles begins with one step.
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
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"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline J Michael

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This resignation is PBXVI's small, but significant, contribution toward an eventual reunion with the Orthodox. By voluntarily resigning now, he's slowly returning the papacy to a more collegial level, since fellow bishops already have to request retirement at 75. A journey of a thousand miles begins with one step.

Now, that's an interesting take on it!
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"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline Cyrillic

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Even before his ascension to the See of Rome, Cardinal Ratzinger declared war on ‘the dictatorship of relativism’ so typical for the Western society today. It immediately made him unpopular in the eyes of secular politicians and journalists. Pope Benedict XVI is not a media star. He is a man of the Church. In the mass media, he is continuously criticized for traditionalism and conservatism, but precisely these merits of his are of credit for millions of Christians, both Catholic and non-Catholic, those who seek to preserve traditional Christian spiritual and moral values.

This quote is beautiful.
At nunc desertis cessant sacraria lucis:
aurum omnes victa iam pietate colunt.
-Propertius, Elegies III.XIII:47-48

νίκας τοῖς Βασιλεῦσι κατὰ βαρβάρων δωρούμενος

Offline ialmisry

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According to the Sacred Canons of the Orthodox Church and the Statute of the Romanian Orthodox Patriarchate, yes, he is.

We were discussing that a few times and every time you failed to prove your claims.
I posted the relevant Canons, Constitution, and Statute.  Their claims speak for themselves. And us.

Apparently, you are mistaken.

" His Grace SILUAN ŞPAN, Bishop of the Romanian Orthodox Diocese for Italy"

"Preasfintitul Părinte SILUAN, Episcopul Ortodox Român al Italiei "


http://www.patriarhia.ro/en/roc_structure/mseuropesynod.html

http://www.patriarhia.ro/ro/structura_bor/mitr_meridionale.html

Quote
ART. 1 – (1) La Chiesa ortodossa romena in Italia
è organizzata come diocesi / eparchia con la titolatura di “Diocesi / Eparchia ortodossa romena
d’Italia” (in seguito la Diocesi), ed ha sede a Roma (Italia).
(2) La Diocesi, dal punto di vista canonico ed amministrativo, è parte della “Metropoli ortodossa romena dell’Europa occidentale e meridionale” (in seguito la  Metropoli), Metropoli che ha sede a Parigi (Francia), e che si trova sotto l’autorità canonica del Santo Sinodo della Chiesa ortodossa romena, che è organizzata come patriarcato con titolatura di “Patriarcato Romeno” e che ha sede a Bucarest (Romania).

ART. 1 – (1) Biserica Ortodoxă Română din Italia este organizată ca eparhie cu titlul de “Episcopia Ortodoxă Română a Italiei” (în continuare Episcopia) și are sediul la Roma (Italia).
(2) Episcopia, din punct de vedere canonic și administrativ, este parte a “Mitropoliei Ortodoxe Române a Europei Occidentale și Meridionale” (în continuare Mitropolia), Mitropolie ce îți [sic] are sediul la Paris (Franța), și se află sub autoritatea canonică a Sfântului Sinod al Bisericii Ortodoxe Române, organizată ca Patriarhie cu titulatura de “Patriarhia Română” și cu sediul la București (România)  

ART. 1 - (1) The Romanian Orthodox Church in Italy is organized as the diocese/eparchy with the title of "Romanian Orthodox Diocese/Bishoprick/Eparchy of Italy" (hereafter the Diocese/Bishoprick) and has its see at Rome (Italy)
(2) The Diocese/Bishoprick, from the canonical and administrative point of view, is a part of the "Romanian Orthodox Metropolitinate of Western and Southern Europe" (hereafter the Metropolitinate), the Metropolitinate which has for your [sic, should be "its"?] see at Paris (France) and is placed under the canonical autority of the Holy Synod of the Romanian Orthodox Church, organized as the Patriarchate with the title of "Romanian Patriarchate" and with its see at Bucharest (Romania).
http://www.episcopia-italiei.eu/media/statut_eori.pdf

Quote
Antioch c. 9. The presiding Bishop in a metropolis must be recognized by the Bishops belonging to each province (or eparchy), and undertake the cure of the entire province, because of the fact that all who have any kind of business to attend to are wont to come from all quarters to the metropolis. Hence it has seemed best to let him have precedence in respect of honor, and to let the rest of the Bishops do nothing extraordinary without him, in accordance with the ancient Canon of the Fathers which has been prevailing, or only those things which are imposed upon the parish of each one of them and upon the territories under it. For each Bishop shall have authority over his own parish, to govern in accordance with the reverence imposed upon each, and to make provision regarding all the territory belonging to his city, as also to ordain Presbyters and Deacons, and to dispose of details with judgment, but to attempt nothing further without the concurrence of the Bishop of the Metropolis; nor shall he himself, without the consent and approval of the rest.

(Ap. c. XXXIV.)

Interpretation.

The present is almost identical with Ap. c. XXXIV in respect of words and in respect of meaning. For it too teaches that the Bishops of each province ought to recognize the Metropolitan of the province as their chief, and to do nothing without his consent and approval (as in turn neither is he to do anything without their consent and approval), but only those things which belong to their episcopates, ordinations, that is to say, of presbyters and deacons and of the rest, administrations of the church, and the rest. Concerning which see the said Ap. c.
http://www.holytrinitymission.org/books/english/councils_local_rudder.htm#_Toc72635082
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Offline mike

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Quote
ART. 1 – (1) La Chiesa ortodossa romena in Italia
è organizzata come diocesi / eparchia con la titolatura di “Diocesi / Eparchia ortodossa romena
d’Italia” (in seguito la Diocesi), ed ha sede a Roma (Italia).
(2) La Diocesi, dal punto di vista canonico ed amministrativo, è parte della “Metropoli ortodossa romena dell’Europa occidentale e meridionale” (in seguito la  Metropoli), Metropoli che ha sede a Parigi (Francia), e che si trova sotto l’autorità canonica del Santo Sinodo della Chiesa ortodossa romena, che è organizzata come patriarcato con titolatura di “Patriarcato Romeno” e che ha sede a Bucarest (Romania).

ART. 1 – (1) Biserica Ortodoxă Română din Italia este organizată ca eparhie cu titlul de “Episcopia Ortodoxă Română a Italiei” (în continuare Episcopia) și are sediul la Roma (Italia).
(2) Episcopia, din punct de vedere canonic și administrativ, este parte a “Mitropoliei Ortodoxe Române a Europei Occidentale și Meridionale” (în continuare Mitropolia), Mitropolie ce îți [sic] are sediul la Paris (Franța), și se află sub autoritatea canonică a Sfântului Sinod al Bisericii Ortodoxe Române, organizată ca Patriarhie cu titulatura de “Patriarhia Română” și cu sediul la București (România)   

ART. 1 - (1) The Romanian Orthodox Church in Italy is organized as the diocese/eparchy with the title of "Romanian Orthodox Diocese/Bishoprick/Eparchy of Italy" (hereafter the Diocese/Bishoprick) and has its see at Rome (Italy)
(2) The Diocese/Bishoprick, from the canonical and administrative point of view, is a part of the "Romanian Orthodox Metropolitinate of Western and Southern Europe" (hereafter the Metropolitinate), the Metropolitinate which has for your [sic, should be "its"?] see at Paris (France) and is placed under the canonical autority of the Holy Synod of the Romanian Orthodox Church, organized as the Patriarchate with the title of "Romanian Patriarchate" and with its see at Bucharest (Romania).
http://www.episcopia-italiei.eu/media/statut_eori.pdf


emphasis mine
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Offline ialmisry

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I hope that its not that African Cardinal ( Peter Tongo something)
I heard rumors that he might be an Afro Marxist eho would either favor third world nations over the desperately needed re evangelization of European nations.  He could also try to liberalize or Africanize the RC liturgy and theology / morality.  We need to reme.mber as Belloc said Europe is the faith and vis a versa. Other nations have the place but we should always take care of our mother first

they haven't elected a bishop of Rome for some time.  It's been an election for "supreme pontiff," in which Italy is just another province.

Maybe he can stay on as archbishop of Rome for the Vatican, and let them elect a different "supreme pontiff."
There is no Archbishop of Rome, because the leader of the Diocese of Rome is entitled the Bishop of Rome, of which the office of the Pope is the same.
this is the bishop of Rome


As for the Vatican hierarchy, I am aware that the archbishoprick of Rome has been abolished, like the Patriarchate of the West, in favor of the "supreme pontiff."

I'm not even going to argue your semantics game, but that diocese has always just been that, a diocese, not an archdiocese.

(And to argue your point, that is the Metropolitian of Italy, not Rome)

Oh dear, I was beginning wonder if this was pantomime and when were we due to shout, "he's behind you!"

Seriously, since when can the Romanians simply parachute someone in and 'take' over or claim back the See. And even more odd that such a pretence, if indeed that were ever the Romanians intent, should come from the ecumenist Romanian Patriarchate.
odd claim for someone who not only is outside of canonical communion, but by the very definition of the his church's name, outside its canonical territory.

Besides being Roman in every sense of the word, the Romanian Patriarchate incorporated into itself the Metropolitinate of Bukowina, which had jurisdiction in Italy.  Details here:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,23485.msg591006.html#msg591006
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 02:19:29 PM by ialmisry »
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Quote
ART. 1 – (1) La Chiesa ortodossa romena in Italia
è organizzata come diocesi / eparchia con la titolatura di “Diocesi / Eparchia ortodossa romena
d’Italia” (in seguito la Diocesi), ed ha sede a Roma (Italia).
(2) La Diocesi, dal punto di vista canonico ed amministrativo, è parte della “Metropoli ortodossa romena dell’Europa occidentale e meridionale” (in seguito la  Metropoli), Metropoli che ha sede a Parigi (Francia), e che si trova sotto l’autorità canonica del Santo Sinodo della Chiesa ortodossa romena, che è organizzata come patriarcato con titolatura di “Patriarcato Romeno” e che ha sede a Bucarest (Romania).

ART. 1 – (1) Biserica Ortodoxă Română din Italia este organizată ca eparhie cu titlul de “Episcopia Ortodoxă Română a Italiei” (în continuare Episcopia) și are sediul la Roma (Italia).
(2) Episcopia, din punct de vedere canonic și administrativ, este parte a “Mitropoliei Ortodoxe Române a Europei Occidentale și Meridionale” (în continuare Mitropolia), Mitropolie ce îți [sic] are sediul la Paris (Franța), și se află sub autoritatea canonică a Sfântului Sinod al Bisericii Ortodoxe Române, organizată ca Patriarhie cu titulatura de “Patriarhia Română” și cu sediul la București (România)   

ART. 1 - (1) The Romanian Orthodox Church in Italy is organized as the diocese/eparchy with the title of "Romanian Orthodox Diocese/Bishoprick/Eparchy of Italy" (hereafter the Diocese/Bishoprick) and has its see at Rome (Italy)
(2) The Diocese/Bishoprick, from the canonical and administrative point of view, is a part of the "Romanian Orthodox Metropolitinate of Western and Southern Europe" (hereafter the Metropolitinate), the Metropolitinate which has for your [sic, should be "its"?] see at Paris (France) and is placed under the canonical autority of the Holy Synod of the Romanian Orthodox Church, organized as the Patriarchate with the title of "Romanian Patriarchate" and with its see at Bucharest (Romania).
http://www.episcopia-italiei.eu/media/statut_eori.pdf


emphasis mine
and where is its throne, cathedral and see?
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Isn't it strange that there's never been an American Pope? There's even been a Dutch one.


Quote
There have been 217 popes from Italy, 17 from France, 13 from Greece, 8 from Germany, 6 from Syria, 3 from Africa, 2 from Portugal, 2 from Spain, and one each from Galilee (Palestine) (Saint Peter), England (Pope Adrian IV), the Netherlands (Adrian VI) and Poland (John Paul II).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Popes_by_nationality
Actually, most of those it lists as "Greek" came from southern Italy, one from Jerusalem, and one from Ephesus.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline mike

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Quote
ART. 1 – (1) La Chiesa ortodossa romena in Italia
è organizzata come diocesi / eparchia con la titolatura di “Diocesi / Eparchia ortodossa romena
d’Italia” (in seguito la Diocesi), ed ha sede a Roma (Italia).
(2) La Diocesi, dal punto di vista canonico ed amministrativo, è parte della “Metropoli ortodossa romena dell’Europa occidentale e meridionale” (in seguito la  Metropoli), Metropoli che ha sede a Parigi (Francia), e che si trova sotto l’autorità canonica del Santo Sinodo della Chiesa ortodossa romena, che è organizzata come patriarcato con titolatura di “Patriarcato Romeno” e che ha sede a Bucarest (Romania).

ART. 1 – (1) Biserica Ortodoxă Română din Italia este organizată ca eparhie cu titlul de “Episcopia Ortodoxă Română a Italiei” (în continuare Episcopia) și are sediul la Roma (Italia).
(2) Episcopia, din punct de vedere canonic și administrativ, este parte a “Mitropoliei Ortodoxe Române a Europei Occidentale și Meridionale” (în continuare Mitropolia), Mitropolie ce îți [sic] are sediul la Paris (Franța), și se află sub autoritatea canonică a Sfântului Sinod al Bisericii Ortodoxe Române, organizată ca Patriarhie cu titulatura de “Patriarhia Română” și cu sediul la București (România)  

ART. 1 - (1) The Romanian Orthodox Church in Italy is organized as the diocese/eparchy with the title of "Romanian Orthodox Diocese/Bishoprick/Eparchy of Italy" (hereafter the Diocese/Bishoprick) and has its see at Rome (Italy)
(2) The Diocese/Bishoprick, from the canonical and administrative point of view, is a part of the "Romanian Orthodox Metropolitinate of Western and Southern Europe" (hereafter the Metropolitinate), the Metropolitinate which has for your [sic, should be "its"?] see at Paris (France) and is placed under the canonical autority of the Holy Synod of the Romanian Orthodox Church, organized as the Patriarchate with the title of "Romanian Patriarchate" and with its see at Bucharest (Romania).
http://www.episcopia-italiei.eu/media/statut_eori.pdf


emphasis mine
and where is its throne, cathedral and see?

In Rome. Same like RC Latin Patriarchs of X that lived in Rome.
Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

not everything I typed before [insert current date] may reflect my current views on the subject

Offline ialmisry

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Quote
ART. 1 – (1) La Chiesa ortodossa romena in Italia
è organizzata come diocesi / eparchia con la titolatura di “Diocesi / Eparchia ortodossa romena
d’Italia” (in seguito la Diocesi), ed ha sede a Roma (Italia).
(2) La Diocesi, dal punto di vista canonico ed amministrativo, è parte della “Metropoli ortodossa romena dell’Europa occidentale e meridionale” (in seguito la  Metropoli), Metropoli che ha sede a Parigi (Francia), e che si trova sotto l’autorità canonica del Santo Sinodo della Chiesa ortodossa romena, che è organizzata come patriarcato con titolatura di “Patriarcato Romeno” e che ha sede a Bucarest (Romania).

ART. 1 – (1) Biserica Ortodoxă Română din Italia este organizată ca eparhie cu titlul de “Episcopia Ortodoxă Română a Italiei” (în continuare Episcopia) și are sediul la Roma (Italia).
(2) Episcopia, din punct de vedere canonic și administrativ, este parte a “Mitropoliei Ortodoxe Române a Europei Occidentale și Meridionale” (în continuare Mitropolia), Mitropolie ce îți [sic] are sediul la Paris (Franța), și se află sub autoritatea canonică a Sfântului Sinod al Bisericii Ortodoxe Române, organizată ca Patriarhie cu titulatura de “Patriarhia Română” și cu sediul la București (România)  

ART. 1 - (1) The Romanian Orthodox Church in Italy is organized as the diocese/eparchy with the title of "Romanian Orthodox Diocese/Bishoprick/Eparchy of Italy" (hereafter the Diocese/Bishoprick) and has its see at Rome (Italy)
(2) The Diocese/Bishoprick, from the canonical and administrative point of view, is a part of the "Romanian Orthodox Metropolitinate of Western and Southern Europe" (hereafter the Metropolitinate), the Metropolitinate which has for your [sic, should be "its"?] see at Paris (France) and is placed under the canonical autority of the Holy Synod of the Romanian Orthodox Church, organized as the Patriarchate with the title of "Romanian Patriarchate" and with its see at Bucharest (Romania).
http://www.episcopia-italiei.eu/media/statut_eori.pdf


emphasis mine
and where is its throne, cathedral and see?

In Rome. Same like RC Latin Patriarchs of X that lived in Rome.
X?
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline mike

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Quote
ART. 1 – (1) La Chiesa ortodossa romena in Italia
è organizzata come diocesi / eparchia con la titolatura di “Diocesi / Eparchia ortodossa romena
d’Italia” (in seguito la Diocesi), ed ha sede a Roma (Italia).
(2) La Diocesi, dal punto di vista canonico ed amministrativo, è parte della “Metropoli ortodossa romena dell’Europa occidentale e meridionale” (in seguito la  Metropoli), Metropoli che ha sede a Parigi (Francia), e che si trova sotto l’autorità canonica del Santo Sinodo della Chiesa ortodossa romena, che è organizzata come patriarcato con titolatura di “Patriarcato Romeno” e che ha sede a Bucarest (Romania).

ART. 1 – (1) Biserica Ortodoxă Română din Italia este organizată ca eparhie cu titlul de “Episcopia Ortodoxă Română a Italiei” (în continuare Episcopia) și are sediul la Roma (Italia).
(2) Episcopia, din punct de vedere canonic și administrativ, este parte a “Mitropoliei Ortodoxe Române a Europei Occidentale și Meridionale” (în continuare Mitropolia), Mitropolie ce îți [sic] are sediul la Paris (Franța), și se află sub autoritatea canonică a Sfântului Sinod al Bisericii Ortodoxe Române, organizată ca Patriarhie cu titulatura de “Patriarhia Română” și cu sediul la București (România)   

ART. 1 - (1) The Romanian Orthodox Church in Italy is organized as the diocese/eparchy with the title of "Romanian Orthodox Diocese/Bishoprick/Eparchy of Italy" (hereafter the Diocese/Bishoprick) and has its see at Rome (Italy)
(2) The Diocese/Bishoprick, from the canonical and administrative point of view, is a part of the "Romanian Orthodox Metropolitinate of Western and Southern Europe" (hereafter the Metropolitinate), the Metropolitinate which has for your [sic, should be "its"?] see at Paris (France) and is placed under the canonical autority of the Holy Synod of the Romanian Orthodox Church, organized as the Patriarchate with the title of "Romanian Patriarchate" and with its see at Bucharest (Romania).
http://www.episcopia-italiei.eu/media/statut_eori.pdf


emphasis mine
and where is its throne, cathedral and see?

In Rome. Same like RC Latin Patriarchs of X that lived in Rome.
X?

Antioch, Alexandria, Constantinople.
Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

not everything I typed before [insert current date] may reflect my current views on the subject

Online podkarpatska

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Semantics aside, I really doubt the good bishop views himself as THE Bishop of Rome . This is a rather silly, diversionary argument.

Offline J Michael

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Semantics aside, I really doubt the good bishop views himself as THE Bishop of Rome . This is a rather silly, diversionary argument.

Ahh....the voice of reason and sanity!  :)
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Yes, because if there's one thing I think of when I think of the Roman Catholic Church, it's white people and their particular concerns.



Pictured: A bunch of honkies gather to greet the Roman Pope. (Just kidding, of course. Good thing they've got him in that protective car, eh Charles? Otherwise those black folks might get their witchcraft all over him. Ew.)

I nominate the post above for a gold star, "Best in Show", or whatever is the OCNet equivalent.  I literally LOLed for minutes!  

In all seriousness, however, let me be the first to allay the concerns many on this forum undoubtedly have: I am not in the running for the Roman Papacy.  Yesterday afternoon, when I expressed interest in applying for the position, I was told by a member of the nunciature staff in DC that I'm missing the required amount of natures necessary to qualify as a papabile (off by one, d-mnit!).  

But don't get too comfortable, folks.  I've been eyeing Constantinople for almost a decade, I'm not letting them get away with that excuse when that see opens up.  
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

New thread topic.  Rate the sexual attractiveness of members of OC.net on a scale of 1-10.

Mor Ephrem: 11/10

Offline ialmisry

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Quote
ART. 1 – (1) La Chiesa ortodossa romena in Italia
è organizzata come diocesi / eparchia con la titolatura di “Diocesi / Eparchia ortodossa romena
d’Italia” (in seguito la Diocesi), ed ha sede a Roma (Italia).
(2) La Diocesi, dal punto di vista canonico ed amministrativo, è parte della “Metropoli ortodossa romena dell’Europa occidentale e meridionale” (in seguito la  Metropoli), Metropoli che ha sede a Parigi (Francia), e che si trova sotto l’autorità canonica del Santo Sinodo della Chiesa ortodossa romena, che è organizzata come patriarcato con titolatura di “Patriarcato Romeno” e che ha sede a Bucarest (Romania).

ART. 1 – (1) Biserica Ortodoxă Română din Italia este organizată ca eparhie cu titlul de “Episcopia Ortodoxă Română a Italiei” (în continuare Episcopia) și are sediul la Roma (Italia).
(2) Episcopia, din punct de vedere canonic și administrativ, este parte a “Mitropoliei Ortodoxe Române a Europei Occidentale și Meridionale” (în continuare Mitropolia), Mitropolie ce îți [sic] are sediul la Paris (Franța), și se află sub autoritatea canonică a Sfântului Sinod al Bisericii Ortodoxe Române, organizată ca Patriarhie cu titulatura de “Patriarhia Română” și cu sediul la București (România)   

ART. 1 - (1) The Romanian Orthodox Church in Italy is organized as the diocese/eparchy with the title of "Romanian Orthodox Diocese/Bishoprick/Eparchy of Italy" (hereafter the Diocese/Bishoprick) and has its see at Rome (Italy)
(2) The Diocese/Bishoprick, from the canonical and administrative point of view, is a part of the "Romanian Orthodox Metropolitinate of Western and Southern Europe" (hereafter the Metropolitinate), the Metropolitinate which has for your [sic, should be "its"?] see at Paris (France) and is placed under the canonical autority of the Holy Synod of the Romanian Orthodox Church, organized as the Patriarchate with the title of "Romanian Patriarchate" and with its see at Bucharest (Romania).
http://www.episcopia-italiei.eu/media/statut_eori.pdf


emphasis mine
and where is its throne, cathedral and see?

In Rome. Same like RC Latin Patriarchs of X that lived in Rome.
X?

Antioch, Alexandria, Constantinople.
Except, per the canons (e.g. Nicea I c. 6) they were uncanonical, and Bishop Siluan of Rome is not.

And their titular thrones, cathedrals and sees were not in Rome.  Just themselves.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Semantics aside, I really doubt the good bishop views himself as THE Bishop of Rome . This is a rather silly, diversionary argument.
Does he see himself still as the bishop of Lucca?
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Shiny

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Semantics aside, I really doubt the good bishop views himself as THE Bishop of Rome . This is a rather silly, diversionary argument.
When in Rome do as the Romans do.
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan

Offline Peter J

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Does the Pope's resignation reflect a more Western, CEO model of ministry, as compared to the Orthodox, more 'fatherly', model of ministry?

Possibly, but this is the first pope to resign in almost 600 years. How long has it been since an EP resigned?
- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)

Offline mike

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Does the Pope's resignation reflect a more Western, CEO model of ministry, as compared to the Orthodox, more 'fatherly', model of ministry?

Possibly, but this is the first pope to resign in almost 600 years. How long has it been since an EP resigned?

65
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Offline Cyrillic

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There have been times that there were 4 or 5 ex-Patriarchs of Constantinople at the same time.
At nunc desertis cessant sacraria lucis:
aurum omnes victa iam pietate colunt.
-Propertius, Elegies III.XIII:47-48

νίκας τοῖς Βασιλεῦσι κατὰ βαρβάρων δωρούμενος

Offline choy

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Smack in the middle of Great Lent.  Perhaps that is very good timing.

Does the Pope get to eat meat during Lent?  He already gave up the Papacy for Lent.

Offline biro

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Smack in the middle of Great Lent.  Perhaps that is very good timing.

Does the Pope get to eat meat during Lent?  He already gave up the Papacy for Lent.

You made a funny!  :D

Offline augustin717

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I hope that its not that African Cardinal ( Peter Tongo something)
I heard rumors that he might be an Afro Marxist eho would either favor third world nations over the desperately needed re evangelization of European nations.  He could also try to liberalize or Africanize the RC liturgy and theology / morality.  We need to reme.mber as Belloc said Europe is the faith and vis a versa. Other nations have the place but we should always take care of our mother first

they haven't elected a bishop of Rome for some time.  It's been an election for "supreme pontiff," in which Italy is just another province.

Maybe he can stay on as archbishop of Rome for the Vatican, and let them elect a different "supreme pontiff."
There is no Archbishop of Rome, because the leader of the Diocese of Rome is entitled the Bishop of Rome, of which the office of the Pope is the same.
this is the bishop of Rome


No, he is not.
According to the Sacred Canons of the Orthodox Church and the Statute of the Romanian Orthodox Patriarchate, yes, he is.

I'm not even going to argue your semantics game, but that diocese has always just been that, a diocese, not an archdiocese.
Not according to the Acts of the Ecumenical Councils, and the Orthodox practice of the Catholic Church.
(And to argue your point, that is the Metropolitian of Italy, not Rome)
According to the Sacred Canons of the Orthodox Church and the Statute of the Romanian Orthodox Patriarchate, no, he is not.
Then they should just clean up San Giovanni for him. And voila! Habemus papam.

Offline choy

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Smack in the middle of Great Lent.  Perhaps that is very good timing.

Does the Pope get to eat meat during Lent?  He already gave up the Papacy for Lent.

You made a funny!  :D

I knew that if I just kept dishing it out, I'd hit a home run at some point.  ;D

Offline J Michael

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Smack in the middle of Great Lent.  Perhaps that is very good timing.

Does the Pope get to eat meat during Lent?  He already gave up the Papacy for Lent.

 ::)
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline Shiny

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well according to Malachy of Ireland this new pope is it and the world will end. he said the last pope's name is Peter and will be from Rome. I guess we will have to see how it all plays out.

ROFL that Jags avatar.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 05:01:59 PM by Achronos »
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan