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Author Topic: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th  (Read 16357 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #720 on: March 01, 2013, 07:23:05 PM »

Wow! Why so much interest in a heterodox church? I cannot imagine why the schismatic bishop of Rome should elicit such interest.

When we say, "I believe in one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church" are you thinking that includes Rome as well? If not, why such interest in the papacy?

Because one day maybe they won't be heterodox.

Because we are supposed to pray for the forgiveness of others. In recent years, the RCC has shown at least some measure of increased good will toward the Orthodox, such as with the return of the relics of St. John Chrysostom.

Plus, there are a lot of RCC people out there. You can't just ignore people and not pray for them. Disagree with them yes, if you have to, but neglect? No, I can't do that. Jesus said we have to pray for our enemies. And enemies is a very strong word.

That's just my opinion.
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« Reply #721 on: March 01, 2013, 08:02:47 PM »

Wow! Why so much interest in a heterodox church? I cannot imagine why the schismatic bishop of Rome should elicit such interest.

When we say, "I believe in one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church" are you thinking that includes Rome as well? If not, why such interest in the papacy?

The same reason the whole world talks about the US Presidential Elections or why Americans are so infatuated with Will and Kate even though they denounced the British Monarchy a couple of centuries ago.
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« Reply #722 on: March 01, 2013, 08:04:28 PM »

About the possibility of Roman Catholics reuniting with the Church, what saint was it, who said that the days of the Ecumenical Councils and mass receptions are over, and that now the only way that people can be united to the Church, is through individual conversion and reception?

Not that it is dogma, but it is thought-provoking.

I agree completely! 

I also agree, at least to an extent: I think that the time we are living in now isn't a time of major reconciliations. However, I don't want to project that into future generations. (Of course, I'm not suggesting that future generations will have more union-of-brest style unions. To my mind, the Union of Brest et al were not examples of ecumenism, but of people switching from one side to the other.)

It's not about the time of reconciliations or not, but East and West have moved so far away from one another that it is not a simple task to bring both sides together.  The EO and OO, despite 1500 years of schism, have a lot more in common than the EO and RC.
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« Reply #723 on: March 01, 2013, 08:42:38 PM »

The Pope of Rome, to us, does not carry a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight like he carries for Roman Catholics. He's not usually something of great interest to us.

Have you ever read any of Ratzinger´s books?

What significance does it have to what has been taught about the Papacy over the last Millennium?

How about he is one of the great academic scholars of the Patristic era of the 20th century,a keen student of liturgy and he possessed the broadest knowledge of, and appreciation for, Orthodox teachings and spirituality of any Pope in say , the past thousand years or so for starters.
he was better as Cardinal Ratzinger. As Pope Benedict XVI he botched the whole Patriarchate of the West thing.e

I'm not sure that move will prove to be much of anything in the river of history. However his 2006 Regensburg Address is likely to be viewed as a great post modern Christian apologetic.
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« Reply #724 on: March 01, 2013, 09:07:21 PM »

About the possibility of Roman Catholics reuniting with the Church, what saint was it, who said that the days of the Ecumenical Councils and mass receptions are over, and that now the only way that people can be united to the Church, is through individual conversion and reception?

Not that it is dogma, but it is thought-provoking.

I agree completely! 

I also agree, at least to an extent: I think that the time we are living in now isn't a time of major reconciliations. However, I don't want to project that into future generations. (Of course, I'm not suggesting that future generations will have more union-of-brest style unions. To my mind, the Union of Brest et al were not examples of ecumenism, but of people switching from one side to the other.)

It's not about the time of reconciliations or not, but East and West have moved so far away from one another that it is not a simple task to bring both sides together. 

That's a good way of putting it too.
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« Reply #725 on: March 01, 2013, 09:07:58 PM »

he was better as Cardinal Ratzinger. As Pope Benedict XVI he botched the whole Patriarchate of the West thing.

Yes, I'm sure it's shocking to you Orthodox that a title that was in the Annuario Pontificio since 1863 is no longer there.
[/sarcasm]
Not shocking, just revealing

Boy are my cheeks red.

[File red_cheeks.jpg not found]

But anyhow, I'm curious how you think it's revealing. Is it presumptuous for Benedict to reverse a move made by Pius IX?
No, it is dissimulating to claim he did.  (the move in question, being made in 1870).

True, my post could be interpreted that way. I should have said, "Is it presumptuous for Benedict to reverse a move made by Pius IX in 1863?" (Btw, has there been a thread about this being the 150 year anniversary of "Patriarch of the West" appearing in the Annuario Pontificio?)
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« Reply #726 on: March 01, 2013, 09:25:48 PM »

Wow! Why so much interest in a heterodox church? I cannot imagine why the schismatic bishop of Rome should elicit such interest.

When we say, "I believe in one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church" are you thinking that includes Rome as well? If not, why such interest in the papacy?
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« Reply #727 on: March 01, 2013, 09:26:37 PM »

About the possibility of Roman Catholics reuniting with the Church, what saint was it, who said that the days of the Ecumenical Councils and mass receptions are over, and that now the only way that people can be united to the Church, is through individual conversion and reception?

Not that it is dogma, but it is thought-provoking.

I agree completely! 

I also agree, at least to an extent: I think that the time we are living in now isn't a time of major reconciliations. However, I don't want to project that into future generations. (Of course, I'm not suggesting that future generations will have more union-of-brest style unions. To my mind, the Union of Brest et al were not examples of ecumenism, but of people switching from one side to the other.)

It's not about the time of reconciliations or not, but East and West have moved so far away from one another that it is not a simple task to bring both sides together. 

That's a good way of putting it too.

Although, the good part about living on a spheroid is that if either one keeps moving further, they're bound to meet up again.  laugh
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« Reply #728 on: March 01, 2013, 09:30:04 PM »

he was better as Cardinal Ratzinger. As Pope Benedict XVI he botched the whole Patriarchate of the West thing.

Yes, I'm sure it's shocking to you Orthodox that a title that was in the Annuario Pontificio since 1863 is no longer there.
[/sarcasm]
Not shocking, just revealing

Boy are my cheeks red.

[File red_cheeks.jpg not found]

But anyhow, I'm curious how you think it's revealing. Is it presumptuous for Benedict to reverse a move made by Pius IX?
No, it is dissimulating to claim he did.  (the move in question, being made in 1870).

True, my post could be interpreted that way. I should have said, "Is it presumptuous for Benedict to reverse a move made by Pius IX in 1863?" (Btw, has there been a thread about this being the 150 year anniversary of "Patriarch of the West" appearing in the Annuario Pontificio?)
Not that I know of: did we have a thread last year about it being 1320 years since the Church formally made the Pope of Rome so?
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« Reply #729 on: March 01, 2013, 09:41:41 PM »

he was better as Cardinal Ratzinger. As Pope Benedict XVI he botched the whole Patriarchate of the West thing.

Yes, I'm sure it's shocking to you Orthodox that a title that was in the Annuario Pontificio since 1863 is no longer there.
[/sarcasm]
Not shocking, just revealing

Boy are my cheeks red.

[File red_cheeks.jpg not found]

But anyhow, I'm curious how you think it's revealing. Is it presumptuous for Benedict to reverse a move made by Pius IX?
No, it is dissimulating to claim he did.  (the move in question, being made in 1870).

True, my post could be interpreted that way. I should have said, "Is it presumptuous for Benedict to reverse a move made by Pius IX in 1863?" (Btw, has there been a thread about this being the 150 year anniversary of "Patriarch of the West" appearing in the Annuario Pontificio?)
Not that I know of: did we have a thread last year about it being 1320 years since the Church formally made the Pope of Rome so?

Not that I recall; although I believe we had a thread about it being the 500-year anniversary of the opening of the Fifth Lateran Council.
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« Reply #730 on: March 02, 2013, 07:41:51 AM »

As I don't get to vote and my opinion about it isn't worth a damn, I'll just wait and see who they pick and then read up on him.  My hope is that they pick someone very conservative with a very strong backbone.

It's lent, we can't have someone who has a backbone.

What's this "we" crap?  I thought you left the Catholic Church.  Grin

I almost wasn't going to respond, as Choy hardly needs me to stand up for him, but this ^^ post still has me scratching my head.

I mean, seriously? Coming from someone who left the Catholic Church for the Orthodox Church, and then left the Orthodox Church for the Catholic Church?

For lack of a better emoticon,  Roll Eyes.
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« Reply #731 on: March 02, 2013, 09:53:45 AM »

The Pope of Rome, to us, does not carry a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight like he carries for Roman Catholics. He's not usually something of great interest to us.

That said, there is something foreboding and creepy about this resignation. It doesn't sit well with me.

A few loose and cryptic thoughts. Cheers.

Eh, Father??  "...a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight."?  Not quite sure what you mean.   

His resignation doesn't need to sit well with you.  I think any creepiness and foreboding is you perhaps reading into it something that probably just isn't there.
Especially when the Vatican has mandated a retirement age for everyone else.
" Everyone else" isn't the Vicar of Christ on Earth.
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« Reply #732 on: March 02, 2013, 10:01:51 AM »

The Pope of Rome, to us, does not carry a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight like he carries for Roman Catholics. He's not usually something of great interest to us.

That said, there is something foreboding and creepy about this resignation. It doesn't sit well with me.

A few loose and cryptic thoughts. Cheers.

Eh, Father??  "...a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight."?  Not quite sure what you mean.  

His resignation doesn't need to sit well with you.  I think any creepiness and foreboding is you perhaps reading into it something that probably just isn't there.
Agreed. I'm sad to see His Holiness, go. He was an scholarly, kind, and gentle man. But I have no feelings of "creepiness." Sometimes I think that non-Catholics endow the Papacy with more mistique than do Catholics.
Not more than it has. As for the followers of the Vatican, some have less mistique for the office than we do.  Others engage in outright idolatry.

Speaking of which, if the next one to take the office doesn't take or have the name Peter, we can put the Malachy prophecy in the same file with the Mayans.
Wrong again, the Mayan prophecy failed to live up to it's expectations when it's clock ran out.

The Malachy prophecy only goes into effect if the pope's name is Peter.

Otherwise the clock is still ticking.
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« Reply #733 on: March 02, 2013, 10:02:55 AM »

Actually, if the next Pope would call himself Peter, he would be Peter I and not Peter II.
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« Reply #734 on: March 02, 2013, 10:54:29 AM »

Perhaps, but I just think he will pick something else. That's all. Smiley
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« Reply #735 on: March 02, 2013, 02:02:57 PM »

So...my choice for the round of 16  Tongue:

Timothy Dolan (US)
Marc Oullet (Canada)

Joao Braz de Aviz (Brazil)
Leonardo Sandri (Argentina)

Gianfranco Ravasi (Italy)
Christoph Schoenborn (Austria)

John Onaiyekan (Nigeria)
Luis Antonio Tagle (Philippines)

Results:
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1IiCbsv-2Fks1V2-VC8sGik3_rRXpgJiL7--knx-OWd8/viewanalytics?pli=1

Looks like Turkson and Scola won over Schoenborn and Tagle respectively  Tongue...

...Is there a quarterfinals?
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« Reply #736 on: March 03, 2013, 01:36:40 AM »

The Pope of Rome, to us, does not carry a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight like he carries for Roman Catholics. He's not usually something of great interest to us.

That said, there is something foreboding and creepy about this resignation. It doesn't sit well with me.

A few loose and cryptic thoughts. Cheers.

Eh, Father??  "...a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight."?  Not quite sure what you mean.   

His resignation doesn't need to sit well with you.  I think any creepiness and foreboding is you perhaps reading into it something that probably just isn't there.
Especially when the Vatican has mandated a retirement age for everyone else.
" Everyone else" isn't the Vicar of Christ on Earth.
neither is the someone you are thinking of.
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« Reply #737 on: March 03, 2013, 01:37:55 AM »

The Pope of Rome, to us, does not carry a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight like he carries for Roman Catholics. He's not usually something of great interest to us.

That said, there is something foreboding and creepy about this resignation. It doesn't sit well with me.

A few loose and cryptic thoughts. Cheers.

Eh, Father??  "...a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight."?  Not quite sure what you mean.  

His resignation doesn't need to sit well with you.  I think any creepiness and foreboding is you perhaps reading into it something that probably just isn't there.
Agreed. I'm sad to see His Holiness, go. He was an scholarly, kind, and gentle man. But I have no feelings of "creepiness." Sometimes I think that non-Catholics endow the Papacy with more mistique than do Catholics.
Not more than it has. As for the followers of the Vatican, some have less mistique for the office than we do.  Others engage in outright idolatry.

Speaking of which, if the next one to take the office doesn't take or have the name Peter, we can put the Malachy prophecy in the same file with the Mayans.
Wrong again, the Mayan prophecy failed to live up to it's expectations when it's clock ran out.

The Malachy prophecy only goes into effect if the pope's name is Peter.

Otherwise the clock is still ticking.
Their quatrain is up: I've been hearing them count down ever since John Paul I.
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« Reply #738 on: March 03, 2013, 08:12:28 AM »

This statement on wikipedia gets to the heart of the prophecy matter nicely:

Quote
The Prophecy of the Popes (Latin: Prophetia Sancte Malachiae Archiepiscopi, de Summis Pontificibus) is a series of 112 short, cryptic phrases in Latin which purport to predict the Roman Catholic popes (along with a few antipopes), beginning with Pope Celestine II. The alleged prophecies were first published by Benedictine monk Arnold de Wyon in 1595. Wyon attributes the prophecies to Saint Malachy, a 12th‑century Archbishop of Armagh, Ireland.
Given the very accurate description of popes up to 1590 and lack of accuracy after that year, Catholic historians generally conclude that the alleged prophecies are a fabrication written shortly before they were published. The Roman Catholic Church also dismisses them as forgery.[1][2]

Too bad the prophecy begins with Pope Celestine II, and not Pope Celestine V.
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« Reply #739 on: March 03, 2013, 08:44:30 AM »

About the possibility of Roman Catholics reuniting with the Church, what saint was it, who said that the days of the Ecumenical Councils and mass receptions are over, and that now the only way that people can be united to the Church, is through individual conversion and reception?

Not that it is dogma, but it is thought-provoking.

I thought mass receptions are happening even today. Of course not in the sense of whole local churches but IIRC whole parishes and massive amounts of people have indeed returned to Orthodoxy.
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« Reply #740 on: March 03, 2013, 09:25:21 AM »

About the possibility of Roman Catholics reuniting with the Church, what saint was it, who said that the days of the Ecumenical Councils and mass receptions are over, and that now the only way that people can be united to the Church, is through individual conversion and reception?

Not that it is dogma, but it is thought-provoking.

I thought mass receptions are happening even today. Of course not in the sense of whole local churches but IIRC whole parishes and massive amounts of people have indeed returned to Orthodoxy.
Indeed! The whole of the local Church of the Czech Lands and Slovakia came from converts during the Twentieth century.
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« Reply #741 on: March 03, 2013, 04:57:56 PM »

The Pope of Rome, to us, does not carry a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight like he carries for Roman Catholics. He's not usually something of great interest to us.

That said, there is something foreboding and creepy about this resignation. It doesn't sit well with me.

A few loose and cryptic thoughts. Cheers.

Eh, Father??  "...a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight."?  Not quite sure what you mean.   

His resignation doesn't need to sit well with you.  I think any creepiness and foreboding is you perhaps reading into it something that probably just isn't there.
Especially when the Vatican has mandated a retirement age for everyone else.
" Everyone else" isn't the Vicar of Christ on Earth.
neither is the someone you are thinking of.
Speculative.

Having said that, no one is at present momment.
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« Reply #742 on: March 03, 2013, 05:07:20 PM »

The Pope of Rome, to us, does not carry a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight like he carries for Roman Catholics. He's not usually something of great interest to us.

That said, there is something foreboding and creepy about this resignation. It doesn't sit well with me.

A few loose and cryptic thoughts. Cheers.

Eh, Father??  "...a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight."?  Not quite sure what you mean.   

His resignation doesn't need to sit well with you.  I think any creepiness and foreboding is you perhaps reading into it something that probably just isn't there.
Especially when the Vatican has mandated a retirement age for everyone else.
" Everyone else" isn't the Vicar of Christ on Earth.
neither is the someone you are thinking of.
Speculative.

Having said that, no one is at present momment.
no one is, ever.
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« Reply #743 on: March 03, 2013, 05:09:22 PM »

The Pope of Rome, to us, does not carry a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight like he carries for Roman Catholics. He's not usually something of great interest to us.

That said, there is something foreboding and creepy about this resignation. It doesn't sit well with me.

A few loose and cryptic thoughts. Cheers.

Eh, Father??  "...a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight."?  Not quite sure what you mean.   

His resignation doesn't need to sit well with you.  I think any creepiness and foreboding is you perhaps reading into it something that probably just isn't there.
Especially when the Vatican has mandated a retirement age for everyone else.
" Everyone else" isn't the Vicar of Christ on Earth.
neither is the someone you are thinking of.
Speculative.

Having said that, no one is at present momment.
no one is, ever.
right the gospel according to ialmisry.

like I said, speculative.
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« Reply #744 on: March 03, 2013, 05:14:05 PM »

The Pope of Rome, to us, does not carry a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight like he carries for Roman Catholics. He's not usually something of great interest to us.

That said, there is something foreboding and creepy about this resignation. It doesn't sit well with me.

A few loose and cryptic thoughts. Cheers.

Eh, Father??  "...a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight."?  Not quite sure what you mean.   

His resignation doesn't need to sit well with you.  I think any creepiness and foreboding is you perhaps reading into it something that probably just isn't there.
Especially when the Vatican has mandated a retirement age for everyone else.
" Everyone else" isn't the Vicar of Christ on Earth.
neither is the someone you are thinking of.
Speculative.

Having said that, no one is at present momment.
no one is, ever.
right the gospel according to ialmisry.
who preaches only from the Gospel of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

As for that other gospel preached to you by Pastero Aeternus
Quote
like I said, speculative.
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« Reply #745 on: March 03, 2013, 08:52:03 PM »

The Pope of Rome, to us, does not carry a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight like he carries for Roman Catholics. He's not usually something of great interest to us.

That said, there is something foreboding and creepy about this resignation. It doesn't sit well with me.

A few loose and cryptic thoughts. Cheers.
Correct Ialmisry... You are not the Vicar of Christ.

Eh, Father??  "...a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight."?  Not quite sure what you mean.  

His resignation doesn't need to sit well with you.  I think any creepiness and foreboding is you perhaps reading into it something that probably just isn't there.
Especially when the Vatican has mandated a retirement age for everyone else.
" Everyone else" isn't the Vicar of Christ on Earth.
neither is the someone you are thinking of.
Correct. Ialmisry, you are not the Vicar of Christ.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2013, 08:52:37 PM by Papist » Logged

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« Reply #746 on: March 03, 2013, 09:02:34 PM »

The Pope of Rome, to us, does not carry a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight like he carries for Roman Catholics. He's not usually something of great interest to us.

That said, there is something foreboding and creepy about this resignation. It doesn't sit well with me.

A few loose and cryptic thoughts. Cheers.
Correct Ialmisry... You are not the Vicar of Christ.

Eh, Father??  "...a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight."?  Not quite sure what you mean.  

His resignation doesn't need to sit well with you.  I think any creepiness and foreboding is you perhaps reading into it something that probably just isn't there.
Especially when the Vatican has mandated a retirement age for everyone else.
" Everyone else" isn't the Vicar of Christ on Earth.
neither is the someone you are thinking of.
Correct. Ialmisry, you are not the Vicar of Christ.

Get a room you two.
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« Reply #747 on: March 03, 2013, 09:05:09 PM »

The Pope of Rome, to us, does not carry a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight like he carries for Roman Catholics. He's not usually something of great interest to us.

That said, there is something foreboding and creepy about this resignation. It doesn't sit well with me.

A few loose and cryptic thoughts. Cheers.
Correct Ialmisry... You are not the Vicar of Christ.

Eh, Father??  "...a signification of enchantment, wonder, and filial delight."?  Not quite sure what you mean.  

His resignation doesn't need to sit well with you.  I think any creepiness and foreboding is you perhaps reading into it something that probably just isn't there.
Especially when the Vatican has mandated a retirement age for everyone else.
" Everyone else" isn't the Vicar of Christ on Earth.
neither is the someone you are thinking of.
Correct. Ialmisry, you are not the Vicar of Christ.
who claimed I was?  Though I'm flattered that you are thinking of me. Wink
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A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
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« Reply #748 on: March 03, 2013, 10:19:40 PM »

Quote from: Charles Martel
"Everyone else" isn't the Vicar of Christ on Earth.
neither is the someone you are thinking of.
Correct. Ialmisry, you are not the Vicar of Christ.
who claimed I was?  Though I'm flattered that you are thinking of me. Wink

So the "someone you are thinking of" wasn't just your way of fishing for a compliment?
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« Reply #749 on: March 03, 2013, 10:22:22 PM »

Folks can call me dense, and rightfully so, but even I know what Isa meant.
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« Reply #750 on: March 04, 2013, 06:28:15 AM »

Sometimes I think stuff gets blown up a lot.

The man is old, he thinks its time to step down.  I know its a big deal, but I think that's reasonable.   Perhaps he is feeling his age more now than when he first became Pope.... And as everybody knows, I am no cheerleader for the Pope at all. 
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« Reply #751 on: March 04, 2013, 08:31:38 PM »

I'm hoping for Burke. If Burke or Ranjith get it, I'll become Catholic.
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« Reply #752 on: March 05, 2013, 10:33:40 PM »

  Thread is locked for a week while I/we figure out some moderation issues going on with this thread.  Until then, get yourselves ready for Lent. 
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« Reply #753 on: March 13, 2013, 12:19:57 PM »

The thread is reopened. If you want to discuss his resignation, you can do it here (remember there is a separate thread for conclave). Do not also forget about the rules (especially the one about addressing clergy with proper titles).
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« Reply #754 on: March 14, 2013, 09:29:38 AM »

Has anyone seen the movie, "Habemus Papam"? 

Trailer:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0GUU4JEXxA

Final Scene [Italian with English subtitles]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0IgX0mEoRU
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« Reply #755 on: March 14, 2013, 10:00:00 AM »

Has anyone seen the movie, "Habemus Papam"? 

I did. Not bad, especially the volleyball match.
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« Reply #756 on: March 14, 2013, 02:24:24 PM »

Has anyone seen the movie, "Habemus Papam"? 

Trailer:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0GUU4JEXxA

Final Scene [Italian with English subtitles]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0IgX0mEoRU

Very funny that you should ask. I just bookmarked it on Netflix, without realizing you had mentioned it here. Whether I'll actually watch is anyone's guess.
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