Author Topic: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th  (Read 20082 times)

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Offline Peter J

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101 minutes until I become a sedevacantist.

So does that mean that already-sedevacantists become just schismatics instead of heretics as well for a bit? ;)

No, they all come into communion via the empty Chair of Peter ;)
Or maybe it means that our communion in the faith is even more fundamental than our communion with the Pope. Just saying.
not what "Pastor Aeternus" says.

Actually it is Unam Sanctam that says that:

"Now, therefore, we declare, say, determine and pronounce that for every human creature it is necessary for salvation to be subject to the authority of the Roman pontiff"
Do you think that Unam Sanctam does not take into account the instances when there is no Pope. There is currently no Pope. Do you think that that means that according to the Catholic Church, I am now damned?

According to some conclavists, yes. (It was a while ago that I read that, so I don't know if I could find it again or tell you which group it was; but I recall part of their rationale for electing a pope was that sede vacante meant everybody going to hell.)
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Offline Papist

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Do you think that Unam Sanctam does not take into account the instances when there is no Pope. There is currently no Pope. Do you think that that means that according to the Catholic Church, I am now damned?

My response was to ialmisry's response to your post where you said that unity is by faith, not to the Pope.  It is clear that the Catholic Church teachest that unity is through the Pope alone.  I guess you can say that if a Pope accepts one into communion then there is a guarantee that is a unity of faith.  But still it is through the Pope.  What if the Orthodox say today that they will accept full Communion with the Roman Catholic Church and accept all her teachings as is, but this offer expires in one week.  Do you think anyone in the Roman Catholic Church can take that offer right now?

As for whether you are saved or damned, I don't know.  It wasn't in the context of the discussion and not something I deeply thought about in that context.  I mean, you are asking a person who was Catholic for 36 years and left, if I truly believed that salvation rested on the Roman Pontiff then why did I go to the Orthodox Church?  Maybe try not dying until the next Pope is elected just to have your bases covered ;)
Well then you are simply delusional. If unity were "in the Pope alone" as you suggest, then at this moment, there would be not a single member of the Catholic Church. But as it is, there are still over a billion Catholics worldwide, in spite of the fact that there is no Pope with whom were are in communion.

Maybe there is no Roman Catholic Church.  Did you check?
Let me check..... Oh yup. We are still here.  ;D
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline choy

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Do you think that Unam Sanctam does not take into account the instances when there is no Pope. There is currently no Pope. Do you think that that means that according to the Catholic Church, I am now damned?

My response was to ialmisry's response to your post where you said that unity is by faith, not to the Pope.  It is clear that the Catholic Church teachest that unity is through the Pope alone.  I guess you can say that if a Pope accepts one into communion then there is a guarantee that is a unity of faith.  But still it is through the Pope.  What if the Orthodox say today that they will accept full Communion with the Roman Catholic Church and accept all her teachings as is, but this offer expires in one week.  Do you think anyone in the Roman Catholic Church can take that offer right now?

As for whether you are saved or damned, I don't know.  It wasn't in the context of the discussion and not something I deeply thought about in that context.  I mean, you are asking a person who was Catholic for 36 years and left, if I truly believed that salvation rested on the Roman Pontiff then why did I go to the Orthodox Church?  Maybe try not dying until the next Pope is elected just to have your bases covered ;)
Well then you are simply delusional. If unity were "in the Pope alone" as you suggest, then at this moment, there would be not a single member of the Catholic Church. But as it is, there are still over a billion Catholics worldwide, in spite of the fact that there is no Pope with whom were are in communion.

But you didn't answer my question.  If the Orthodox say we are coming in communion today, who receives us?  Can the Carmelengo recevie us?  Can the Cardinals in council?

Offline minasoliman

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Habemus papam papas


fixed it for ya
not quite.

In Arabic, I pray for the Pope in the dual (in the same way that we say "the two Peters" for "SS. Peter and Paul" and "the two moons" for "the sun and the moon.").

Thing is though, the dual number doesn't exist in latin, so it would be the plural.

(I wouldnt put it in the plural, but that is a particular case of my not being in communion with the OO)
The dual isn't just used to indicate two.  Sometimes it is used (as I do in the case of the two Popes Theodore II) to indicate identity.ادكر يا رب الباباوين ثيودورسين

Btw, I like this photo:

The figure in the center is the Lion of St. Mark the Evangelist.  I like how the Popes sit next to each other with the empty throne, until that day (God grant it soon!) one sits in it.

+1...is there one without the Arabic and English logo?
« Last Edit: February 28, 2013, 03:38:25 PM by minasoliman »
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline Papist

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101 minutes until I become a sedevacantist.

So does that mean that already-sedevacantists become just schismatics instead of heretics as well for a bit? ;)

No, they all come into communion via the empty Chair of Peter ;)
Or maybe it means that our communion in the faith is even more fundamental than our communion with the Pope. Just saying.
not what "Pastor Aeternus" says.

Actually it is Unam Sanctam that says that:

"Now, therefore, we declare, say, determine and pronounce that for every human creature it is necessary for salvation to be subject to the authority of the Roman pontiff"
Do you think that Unam Sanctam does not take into account the instances when there is no Pope. There is currently no Pope. Do you think that that means that according to the Catholic Church, I am now damned?

According to some conclavists, yes. (It was a while ago that I read that, so I don't know if I could find it again or tell you which group it was; but I recall part of their rationale for electing a pope was that sede vacante meant everybody going to hell.)
And which ever conclavist argued that is as delusional as anyone else suggesting that the Catholic Church ceased to exist today 8:00 PM Rome time. One of the teachings of the Catholic Church is that the Church is indefectable.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline Papist

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Do you think that Unam Sanctam does not take into account the instances when there is no Pope. There is currently no Pope. Do you think that that means that according to the Catholic Church, I am now damned?

My response was to ialmisry's response to your post where you said that unity is by faith, not to the Pope.  It is clear that the Catholic Church teachest that unity is through the Pope alone.  I guess you can say that if a Pope accepts one into communion then there is a guarantee that is a unity of faith.  But still it is through the Pope.  What if the Orthodox say today that they will accept full Communion with the Roman Catholic Church and accept all her teachings as is, but this offer expires in one week.  Do you think anyone in the Roman Catholic Church can take that offer right now?

As for whether you are saved or damned, I don't know.  It wasn't in the context of the discussion and not something I deeply thought about in that context.  I mean, you are asking a person who was Catholic for 36 years and left, if I truly believed that salvation rested on the Roman Pontiff then why did I go to the Orthodox Church?  Maybe try not dying until the next Pope is elected just to have your bases covered ;)
Well then you are simply delusional. If unity were "in the Pope alone" as you suggest, then at this moment, there would be not a single member of the Catholic Church. But as it is, there are still over a billion Catholics worldwide, in spite of the fact that there is no Pope with whom were are in communion.

But you didn't answer my question.  If the Orthodox say we are coming in communion today, who receives us?  Can the Carmelengo recevie us?  Can the Cardinals in council?
I wouldn't doubt that the Bishops/cardinals could find some way to make it happen. It would be a novel situation, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be made to happen.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline choy

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Let me check..... Oh yup. We are still here.  ;D

I don't believe you!  Not until I can put my fingers into your hands and touch your side, I will not believe.

Offline Cyrillic

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so what would latin be for the dual?


Papas is plural. There is no dual in Latin.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2013, 03:43:05 PM by Cyrillic »
"Who wants to be consistent? The dullard and the doctrinaire, the tedious people who carry out their principles to the bitter end of action, to the reductio ad absurdum of practice. Not I."
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Offline Papist

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Let me check..... Oh yup. We are still here.  ;D

I don't believe you!  Not until I can put my fingers into your hands and touch your side, I will not believe.
We all know how Jesus answered that statement.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline choy

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And which ever conclavist argued that is as delusional as anyone else suggesting that the Catholic Church ceased to exist today 8:00 PM Rome time. One of the teachings of the Catholic Church is that the Church is indefectable.

But isn't the Church built on Peter and his successors?  So if there is no successor, the RC Church right now is built on air.

Online ialmisry

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so what would latin be for the dual?
(i am in awe at these 2 linguists!)

i love the photo, by the way.
 :)  :)

(i can smile in the dual!)
 ;)
I'd hate to see a smile not in the dual.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline choy

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Let me check..... Oh yup. We are still here.  ;D

I don't believe you!  Not until I can put my fingers into your hands and touch your side, I will not believe.
We all know how Jesus answered that statement.

Yes, he appeared to Thomas.  I'm waiting...  ;)

Offline Papist

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Let me check..... Oh yup. We are still here.  ;D

I don't believe you!  Not until I can put my fingers into your hands and touch your side, I will not believe.
We all know how Jesus answered that statement.

Yes, he appeared to Thomas.  I'm waiting...  ;)
Well, walk to the nearest Catholic Church, and put your hand in a parishoner's side. See how that works out.  ;D
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Online ialmisry

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Let me check..... Oh yup. We are still here.  ;D

I don't believe you!  Not until I can put my fingers into your hands and touch your side, I will not believe.
We all know how Jesus answered that statement.
Yeah, "stick your finger in right here."
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Peter J

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But as it is, there are still over a billion Catholics worldwide, in spite of the fact that there is no Pope with whom were are in communion.

Maybe there are no Catholics, but a billion catechumens.  ;D
- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)

Offline minasoliman

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Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Online ialmisry

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And which ever conclavist argued that is as delusional as anyone else suggesting that the Catholic Church ceased to exist today 8:00 PM Rome time. One of the teachings of the Catholic Church is that the Church is indefectable.

But isn't the Church built on Peter and his successors?  So if there is no successor, the RC Church right now is built on air.

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Online ialmisry

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Never mind Isa...I found the source:

http://www.patriarchateofalexandria.com/index.php?module=news&action=details&id=889
sorry, didn't see your post fast enough, and I can't get the url of the better picture (no. 2/4).
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline choy

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Actually the same can be said of an Eastern Catholic Patriarch/Major Archbishop.  If a new one is elected, he has to send something to Rome to confirm Communion with the Pope.  So technically the Eastern Catholics of that Church are schismatics are soon as their Patriarchate/Major Archbishropic seat is vacant, and until the newly elected sui juris head sends to the Pope that, I forgot what its called.

Online ialmisry

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Do you think that Unam Sanctam does not take into account the instances when there is no Pope. There is currently no Pope. Do you think that that means that according to the Catholic Church, I am now damned?

My response was to ialmisry's response to your post where you said that unity is by faith, not to the Pope.  It is clear that the Catholic Church teachest that unity is through the Pope alone.  I guess you can say that if a Pope accepts one into communion then there is a guarantee that is a unity of faith.  But still it is through the Pope.  What if the Orthodox say today that they will accept full Communion with the Roman Catholic Church and accept all her teachings as is, but this offer expires in one week.  Do you think anyone in the Roman Catholic Church can take that offer right now?

As for whether you are saved or damned, I don't know.  It wasn't in the context of the discussion and not something I deeply thought about in that context.  I mean, you are asking a person who was Catholic for 36 years and left, if I truly believed that salvation rested on the Roman Pontiff then why did I go to the Orthodox Church?  Maybe try not dying until the next Pope is elected just to have your bases covered ;)
Well then you are simply delusional. If unity were "in the Pope alone" as you suggest, then at this moment, there would be not a single member of the Catholic Church. But as it is, there are still over a billion Catholics worldwide, in spite of the fact that there is no Pope with whom were are in communion.

But you didn't answer my question.  If the Orthodox say we are coming in communion today, who receives us?  Can the Carmelengo recevie us?  Can the Cardinals in council?
I wouldn't doubt that the Bishops/cardinals could find some way to make it happen. It would be a novel situation, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be made to happen.
after all, mere bishops, they are able to make a super bishop, without involving the sacraments of Christ's Church.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline choy

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Well, walk to the nearest Catholic Church, and put your hand in a parishoner's side. See how that works out.  ;D

But how do I know they are not the real sedevacantists or the liberal pro-aborts?  ;D

Offline minasoliman

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Found a thread in Tasbeha.org that did it for me  ;)
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline choy

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But as it is, there are still over a billion Catholics worldwide, in spite of the fact that there is no Pope with whom were are in communion.

Maybe there are no Catholics, but a billion catechumens.  ;D

Are you all then required to go to RCIA during the Conclave?  ;D

Offline James2

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The RCC could create an office of coadjutor pope so there would always be an heir apparent.  They could call him the Dolphin or the Prince of Whales.  ;D

Offline choy

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Isn't that what the Carmelengo becomes during the period of sedevacante?

Offline J Michael

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And which ever conclavist argued that is as delusional as anyone else suggesting that the Catholic Church ceased to exist today 8:00 PM Rome time. One of the teachings of the Catholic Church is that the Church is indefectable.

But isn't the Church built on Peter and his successors?  So if there is no successor, the RC Church right now is built on air.

There is a successor.  He just hasn't been revealed yet.  God knows who he is, though, so don't fret, alright?  Maybe Choy is built on air  ;D.  As for the Orthodox coming into the Catholic Church, I'm sure any Catholic priest would happily accommodate y'all.  ;)
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Offline Cyrillic

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They could call him the Dolphin or the Prince of Whales.  ;D

France was never ruled by an aquatic animal. It was at times ruled by a dauphin though  :)

Well, it is the same word in French, though...
« Last Edit: February 28, 2013, 04:15:19 PM by Cyrillic »
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Offline J Michael

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Isn't that what the Carmelengo becomes during the period of sedevacante?
Quote
Until a successor Pope can be elected, the Camerlengo serves as acting head of State of the Vatican City. He is not, however, currently responsible for the government of the Catholic Church during a sede vacante. Universi Dominici Gregis placed that task in the hands of the College of Cardinals (although this power of government is extremely limited, being merely enough to allow Church institutions to continue to operate and perform some basic functions without making any definitive decisions or appointments that are normally reserved to other powers delegated by the Pope). The Camerlengo, though, does keep his office during the sede vacante, as opposed to the rest of the Roman Curia, and functions as the executive director of Vatican operations answerable to the College of Cardinals during an interregnum, primarily to carry out the College's decisions with regard to arranging the funeral of the late pope and the events leading up to the conclave. The only other person who keeps his office is the Major Penitentiary.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camerlengo_of_the_Holy_Roman_Church
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Offline James2

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They could call him the Dolphin or the Prince of Whales.  ;D

France was never ruled by an aquatic animal. It was at times ruled by a dauphin though  :)

Well, it is the same word in French, though...

I know.  I was just having some pun. :D

Offline Peter J

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They could call him the Dolphin or the Prince of Whales.  ;D

Don't make me come over there!
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Offline James2

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They could call him the Dolphin or the Prince of Whales.  ;D

Don't make me come over there!

No need.  You're already there.  I, however, am here. :)

Offline choy

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Jokes aside, isn't this period of sedevacante does put into question many claims about the Papacy brought forward by the Roman Catholic Church?  Like my earlier comment about the Church being built on Peter and that Peter only has one successor, what now?  On whom is the Church built on?  And how are the Churches of the Catholic Communion in communion with one another?  How are they "in communion with Rome" if there is no Bishop of Rome?

Offline Monk Vasyl

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Do you think that Unam Sanctam does not take into account the instances when there is no Pope. There is currently no Pope. Do you think that that means that according to the Catholic Church, I am now damned?

My response was to ialmisry's response to your post where you said that unity is by faith, not to the Pope.  It is clear that the Catholic Church teachest that unity is through the Pope alone.  I guess you can say that if a Pope accepts one into communion then there is a guarantee that is a unity of faith.  But still it is through the Pope.  What if the Orthodox say today that they will accept full Communion with the Roman Catholic Church and accept all her teachings as is, but this offer expires in one week.  Do you think anyone in the Roman Catholic Church can take that offer right now?

As for whether you are saved or damned, I don't know.  It wasn't in the context of the discussion and not something I deeply thought about in that context.  I mean, you are asking a person who was Catholic for 36 years and left, if I truly believed that salvation rested on the Roman Pontiff then why did I go to the Orthodox Church?  Maybe try not dying until the next Pope is elected just to have your bases covered ;)
Well then you are simply delusional. If unity were "in the Pope alone" as you suggest, then at this moment, there would be not a single member of the Catholic Church. But as it is, there are still over a billion Catholics worldwide, in spite of the fact that there is no Pope with whom were are in communion.

Maybe there is no Roman Catholic Church.  Did you check?



Yes, they're still there:

http://www.vatican.va/phome_en.htm
The unworthy hierodeacon, Vasyl

Offline Peter J

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Actually the same can be said of an Eastern Catholic Patriarch/Major Archbishop.  If a new one is elected, he has to send something to Rome to confirm Communion with the Pope.  So technically the Eastern Catholics of that Church are schismatics are soon as their Patriarchate/Major Archbishropic seat is vacant, and until the newly elected sui juris head sends to the Pope that, I forgot what its called.

Schismatics, did you say? So are saying that, when the MP and the ROCOR weren't in full communion, the ROCOR was schismatic? (Or was the MP schismatic?)  :o
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Offline choy

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Actually the same can be said of an Eastern Catholic Patriarch/Major Archbishop.  If a new one is elected, he has to send something to Rome to confirm Communion with the Pope.  So technically the Eastern Catholics of that Church are schismatics are soon as their Patriarchate/Major Archbishropic seat is vacant, and until the newly elected sui juris head sends to the Pope that, I forgot what its called.

Schismatics, did you say? So are saying that, when the MP and the ROCOR weren't in full communion, the ROCOR was schismatic? (Or was the MP schismatic?)  :o

If you are not in communion, then what are you?  Is there an option B here?

Offline Peter J

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Jokes aside, isn't this period of sedevacante does put into question many claims about the Papacy brought forward by the Roman Catholic Church?  Like my earlier comment about the Church being built on Peter and that Peter only has one successor, what now?  On whom is the Church built on?  And how are the Churches of the Catholic Communion in communion with one another?  How are they "in communion with Rome" if there is no Bishop of Rome?

Good question.

One theory I've considered (I forget when, perhaps around the time JPII died) is that when the pope, i.e. the first-ranking bishop, dies, the second ranking bishop (traditionally the EP, back when he was Catholic) automatically becomes the (interim) first-ranking bishop.

But that opens up another can of worms: could he, during that time, order the new election to be cancelled, making himself the (non-interim) pope?
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Offline Monk Vasyl

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Jokes aside, isn't this period of sedevacante does put into question many claims about the Papacy brought forward by the Roman Catholic Church?  Like my earlier comment about the Church being built on Peter and that Peter only has one successor, what now?  On whom is the Church built on?  And how are the Churches of the Catholic Communion in communion with one another?  How are they "in communion with Rome" if there is no Bishop of Rome?

Good question.

One theory I've considered (I forget when, perhaps around the time JPII died) is that when the pope, i.e. the first-ranking bishop, dies, the second ranking bishop (traditionally the EP, back when he was Catholic) automatically becomes the (interim) first-ranking bishop.

But that opens up another can of worms: could he, during that time, order the new election to be cancelled, making himself the (non-interim) pope?

Basically everything comes to a stop.  


http://community.catholic.org/pope/new_pope.php
The Vacancy of the Holy See (Papal Interregnum)
 
The period between the death or resignation of a Pope and the election of his successor, when the See of Peter is vacant, is called the Interregnum. This Latin term means between the reign (of one Pope and another). It is a period governed by papal law, which admits of no changes to Church governance, or to the spiritual or material patrimony of St. Peter, save the election of his successor.

Here is more information, I found: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_pope
(scroll down to "Death")

The current regulations regarding a papal interregnum—that is, a sede vacante ("vacant seat")—were promulgated by John Paul II in his 1996 document Universi Dominici Gregis. During the "sede vacante" period, the College of Cardinals is collectively responsible for the government of the Church and of the Vatican itself, under the direction of the Camerlengo of the Holy Roman Church; however, canon law specifically forbids the cardinals from introducing any innovation in the government of the Church during the vacancy of the Holy See. Any decision that requires the assent of the pope has to wait until the new pope has been elected and accepts office.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2013, 05:19:58 PM by Monk Vasyl »
The unworthy hierodeacon, Vasyl

Offline J Michael

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Jokes aside, isn't this period of sedevacante does put into question many claims about the Papacy brought forward by the Roman Catholic Church?  Like my earlier comment about the Church being built on Peter and that Peter only has one successor, what now?  On whom is the Church built on?  And how are the Churches of the Catholic Communion in communion with one another?  How are they "in communion with Rome" if there is no Bishop of Rome?

Good question.

One theory I've considered (I forget when, perhaps around the time JPII died) is that when the pope, i.e. the first-ranking bishop, dies, the second ranking bishop (traditionally the EP, back when he was Catholic) automatically becomes the (interim) first-ranking bishop.

But that opens up another can of worms: could he, during that time, order the new election to be cancelled, making himself the (non-interim) pope?

Basically everything comes to a stop. 


http://community.catholic.org/pope/new_pope.php
The Vacancy of the Holy See (Papal Interregnum)
 
The period between the death or resignation of a Pope and the election of his successor, when the See of Peter is vacant, is called the Interregnum. This Latin term means between the reign (of one Pope and another). It is a period governed by papal law, which admits of no changes to Church governance, or to the spiritual or material patrimony of St. Peter, save the election of his successor.

Thanks for that!  Perhaps it goes some way to explaining why I feel totally untroubled and unconcerned by Choy's concerns and by the whole process unfolding before us.  The word "trust" comes to mind.
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline Monk Vasyl

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Jokes aside, isn't this period of sedevacante does put into question many claims about the Papacy brought forward by the Roman Catholic Church?  Like my earlier comment about the Church being built on Peter and that Peter only has one successor, what now?  On whom is the Church built on?  And how are the Churches of the Catholic Communion in communion with one another?  How are they "in communion with Rome" if there is no Bishop of Rome?

Good question.

One theory I've considered (I forget when, perhaps around the time JPII died) is that when the pope, i.e. the first-ranking bishop, dies, the second ranking bishop (traditionally the EP, back when he was Catholic) automatically becomes the (interim) first-ranking bishop.

But that opens up another can of worms: could he, during that time, order the new election to be cancelled, making himself the (non-interim) pope?

Basically everything comes to a stop. 


http://community.catholic.org/pope/new_pope.php
The Vacancy of the Holy See (Papal Interregnum)
 
The period between the death or resignation of a Pope and the election of his successor, when the See of Peter is vacant, is called the Interregnum. This Latin term means between the reign (of one Pope and another). It is a period governed by papal law, which admits of no changes to Church governance, or to the spiritual or material patrimony of St. Peter, save the election of his successor.

Thanks for that!  Perhaps it goes some way to explaining why I feel totally untroubled and unconcerned by Choy's concerns and by the whole process unfolding before us.  The word "trust" comes to mind.

It sort of brings to mind that the pope is the temporal head of the Church.  Christ is really the only head of the Church.  During its history, there were times when the Church was without a pope for quite a few years, and look its still here.
The unworthy hierodeacon, Vasyl

Offline Monk Vasyl

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Interestingly enought, this shows up online:

Without a pope, who's running the Catholic Church?

With Benedict XVI's abdication taking effect Thursday, the Roman Catholic Church has no pope until the conclave of cardinals settles on a new one. Like many other procedures of the church, the rules for running the institution during this period are ancient and little-known. Here are answers to questions you might have about exactly what happens when the papacy changes hands:

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/28/17134063-without-a-pope-whos-running-the-catholic-church?lite&ocid=msnhp&pos=1
The unworthy hierodeacon, Vasyl

Offline J Michael

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Jokes aside, isn't this period of sedevacante does put into question many claims about the Papacy brought forward by the Roman Catholic Church?  Like my earlier comment about the Church being built on Peter and that Peter only has one successor, what now?  On whom is the Church built on?  And how are the Churches of the Catholic Communion in communion with one another?  How are they "in communion with Rome" if there is no Bishop of Rome?

Good question.

One theory I've considered (I forget when, perhaps around the time JPII died) is that when the pope, i.e. the first-ranking bishop, dies, the second ranking bishop (traditionally the EP, back when he was Catholic) automatically becomes the (interim) first-ranking bishop.

But that opens up another can of worms: could he, during that time, order the new election to be cancelled, making himself the (non-interim) pope?

Basically everything comes to a stop. 


http://community.catholic.org/pope/new_pope.php
The Vacancy of the Holy See (Papal Interregnum)
 
The period between the death or resignation of a Pope and the election of his successor, when the See of Peter is vacant, is called the Interregnum. This Latin term means between the reign (of one Pope and another). It is a period governed by papal law, which admits of no changes to Church governance, or to the spiritual or material patrimony of St. Peter, save the election of his successor.

Thanks for that!  Perhaps it goes some way to explaining why I feel totally untroubled and unconcerned by Choy's concerns and by the whole process unfolding before us.  The word "trust" comes to mind.

It sort of brings to mind that the pope is the temporal head of the Church.  Christ is really the only head of the Church.  During its history, there were times when the Church was without a pope for quite a few years, and look its still here.

Indeed.  As in so many other instances, we tend to forget that Christ IS the only head of the Church, and always has been, simply because we do not see or hear Him "in the flesh" as it were.
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline podkarpatska

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And which ever conclavist argued that is as delusional as anyone else suggesting that the Catholic Church ceased to exist today 8:00 PM Rome time. One of the teachings of the Catholic Church is that the Church is indefectable.

But isn't the Church built on Peter and his successors?  So if there is no successor, the RC Church right now is built on air.



The way this thread has gone today, St Peter's isn't the only place that needs a good lightning rod.

Offline JamesRottnek

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I'm not Catholic and I'm not planning to become one but in a way I will miss him too. I hope his not going to disappear into the dungeons of Vatican. Has he ever written any kind of biography? I'd love to read one if there is.

The succeeding pope will be the third pope that I see in my lifetime. Man, I feel old now.

You shouldn't.  The average Pope lasts 7.2 years, which means that by 21.6 years, the average person has seen three Popes in office.
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Offline J Michael

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I'm not Catholic and I'm not planning to become one but in a way I will miss him too. I hope his not going to disappear into the dungeons of Vatican. Has he ever written any kind of biography? I'd love to read one if there is.

The succeeding pope will be the third pope that I see in my lifetime. Man, I feel old now.

You shouldn't.  The average Pope lasts 7.2 years, which means that by 21.6 years, the average person has seen three Popes in office.

Who *is* this "average person", anyway, and what makes him "average"?
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline choy

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Jokes aside, isn't this period of sedevacante does put into question many claims about the Papacy brought forward by the Roman Catholic Church?  Like my earlier comment about the Church being built on Peter and that Peter only has one successor, what now?  On whom is the Church built on?  And how are the Churches of the Catholic Communion in communion with one another?  How are they "in communion with Rome" if there is no Bishop of Rome?

Good question.

One theory I've considered (I forget when, perhaps around the time JPII died) is that when the pope, i.e. the first-ranking bishop, dies, the second ranking bishop (traditionally the EP, back when he was Catholic) automatically becomes the (interim) first-ranking bishop.

But that opens up another can of worms: could he, during that time, order the new election to be cancelled, making himself the (non-interim) pope?

Well, it would depend how your statement would be interpreted.  Obviously the Orthodox do not see the EP as anything as a Lt. Pope.  Even if he were to assume an interim "first among equals" role, its not the same as the Western view of the Papacy.

Thing isn, isn't everyone in communion with the Pope in the Catholic ecclesiology?  As opposed to each other?