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Author Topic: The Pope to resign?!?! / Pope Benedict XVI resigns / Pope set to resign on Feb. 28th  (Read 15962 times) Average Rating: 0
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J Michael
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« Reply #45 on: February 11, 2013, 12:44:45 PM »

Wow this is incredible.

This is, what, the first time a Pope has resigned office in hundreds of years?! I can't imagine that he's just tired of the job, so it leads one to wonder what precipitated this. The Vatican is such a black box politically it's hard to say what's going on, but I fully expect some interesting leaks to be coming our way soon while people position themselves.
There's no need to speculate about such things that are beyond our understanding.
Such an admonition will do nothing do stop those who feel compelled, for whatever reason(s), to so so nonetheless.
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« Reply #46 on: February 11, 2013, 12:46:46 PM »

Ive heard some rumours he suffers from severe cancer.

Ahh...the rumor mill keeps on grinding  Wink

Until we actually *know* something....
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« Reply #47 on: February 11, 2013, 01:08:13 PM »

I think we should take him at his word. He has a great mind and a deeper understanding of, and appreciation for,
 eastern Christianity than any Pope in centuries. Since his papacy has been brief, history will likely regard him as a placeholder. Perhaps he wants to finish research and writing to put his mark on church history more as  as a thinker and important theologian? In any event, Many Years!
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« Reply #48 on: February 11, 2013, 01:23:10 PM »

I think there are two Byzantine Catholic Cardinals and both would be over 80 years old in a future conclave after 28th February 2013. So there are three possibilities for an Eastern Catholic Pope - the Maronite Patriarch Bechara Boutros al Rahi and the Major Archbishops of the Syro-Malabar and the Syro-Malankara Catholic Churches Smiley

Well technically there are millions of possibilities for an Eastern Catholic pope.
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« Reply #49 on: February 11, 2013, 01:23:29 PM »

Maybe the Pope is resigning so he can become Orthodox Smiley
He has been Orthodox all his life.  Grin
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« Reply #50 on: February 11, 2013, 01:25:19 PM »

Just heard about it on the news...WOW!

So, Who do yall think will get the job?
Matthew Fox

Hey don't make me come over there!

But seriously, it's kind of funny that you say that; I made a quip on a recent thread about it being "the Age of Aquarius", which made me think of Fr. Mitch Pacwa's book "Catholics and the New Age"; then this morning I was watching Fr. Pacwa talk about the Pope's resignation; now your joke (I assume it was Cheesy) about M. Fox.
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« Reply #51 on: February 11, 2013, 01:26:43 PM »

Maybe the Pope is resigning so he can become Orthodox Smiley

He already is orthodox, and doesn't need to resign to become so.  Smiley Smiley

Maybe the Pope is resigning so he can become Orthodox Smiley
He has been Orthodox all his life.  Grin

Is it funnier the second time?

Wink
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« Reply #52 on: February 11, 2013, 01:28:05 PM »

I'm very disappointed to see His Holiness leave the office. He has been an excellent Pope who has taken the first step of directing the Church back in the right direction. I pray that his successor continues Pope Benedict's work.
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« Reply #53 on: February 11, 2013, 01:35:21 PM »

My hope is that, whomever is selected as the new Pope, he picks a good name like Michael, and not one that's hard to spell.

There already is a Pope Michael:


There's apparently a documentary about Pope Michael that's free for viewing.

I know what I'll be watching during my lunch hour.

If you want to feel a little depressed . . .

I should have listen to this warning, I could not go more than the first 15 minutes, but by then the damage was done. I would categorize  this under ' more than a little depressing' even without seeing the whole pitiful and disturbing story.

A little depressed was for my dear Schultzl who is immune to Weltschmerz, if only from having drunk from its cup so deeply.

Most people would require an SSRI to make it through the documentary.
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« Reply #54 on: February 11, 2013, 01:38:01 PM »

I don't understand the idea of resigning from papacy. I know that according to RCC papacy is a office and not a sacrament but still there is something fishy in the idea.
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« Reply #55 on: February 11, 2013, 01:44:19 PM »

I don't understand the idea of resigning from papacy. I know that according to RCC papacy is a office and not a sacrament but still there is something fishy in the idea.

Same here. A Pope voluntarily abdicating doesn't have much of a precedent if you discount the Pope whom Dante saw in hell.
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« Reply #56 on: February 11, 2013, 01:47:27 PM »

I don't understand the idea of resigning from papacy. I know that according to RCC papacy is a office and not a sacrament but still there is something fishy in the idea.

I think he said he's too sick to do the daily work. That's what I heard on the news.
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« Reply #57 on: February 11, 2013, 01:47:54 PM »

Wow. God be with him. I have always liked Pope Benedict. He is a serious, erudite man, and the humility he displays in resigning for the good of his church is refreshing and commendable. I hope that my Roman friends will be blessed with a Pope to continue in his line.
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« Reply #58 on: February 11, 2013, 01:48:33 PM »

I don't understand the idea of resigning from papacy. I know that according to RCC papacy is a office and not a sacrament but still there is something fishy in the idea.

I think he said he's too sick to do the daily work. That's what I heard on the news.
Being an 85 year old Pope is not an easy task. With the increase in life expectancy, I suspect we will see more Popes who resign over the next 100 years.
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« Reply #59 on: February 11, 2013, 01:49:39 PM »

I don't understand the idea of resigning from papacy. I know that according to RCC papacy is a office and not a sacrament but still there is something fishy in the idea.

Same here. A Pope voluntarily abdicating doesn't have much of a precedent if you discount the Pope whom Dante saw in hell.

Why does his resignation have to be "fishy" just because we do not yet understand or know all the details of it?  Why can we not take him at his word, that he is resigning because he is not physically up to the task and just leave it at that for now?

A Pope voluntarily abdicating will now have a better precedent after Feb. 28, 2013.  There is much we do not understand.  If we wait and keep our hearts open, perhaps with more time we will have greater understanding.

Many Years to His Holiness!!!
« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 01:50:43 PM by J Michael » Logged

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« Reply #60 on: February 11, 2013, 01:50:19 PM »

I don't understand the idea of resigning from papacy. I know that according to RCC papacy is a office and not a sacrament but still there is something fishy in the idea.

Same here. A Pope voluntarily abdicating doesn't have much of a precedent if you discount the Pope whom Dante saw in hell.

"Historical evidence for papal resignations is limited, especially if one eliminates resignations that may have been forced.

Clement I (92?-101): Epiphanius asserted that Clement gave up the pontificate to Linus for the sake of peace and became pope again after the death of Cletus.

Pontian (230-235): Allegedly resigned after being exiled to the mines of Sardinia during persecution of Maximinus Thrax.

Cyriacus: A fictional character created in the Middle Ages who supposedly received a heavenly command to resign.

Marcellinus (296-304): Abdicated or was deposed after complying with Diocletian's order to offer sacrifice to pagan gods.

Martin I (649-655): Exiled by Emperor Constans II to Crimea. Before he died, clergy of Rome elected a successor whom he appears to have approved.

Benedict V (964): After one month in office, he accepted deposition by Emperor Otto I.

Benedict IX (1032-45): Benedict resigned after selling the papacy to his godfather Gregory VI.

Gregory VI (1045-46): Deposed for simony by Henry III.

Celestine V (1294): A hermit, elected at age of 80 and overwhelmed by the office, resigned. He was imprisoned by his successor.

Gregory XII (1406-15): Resigned at request of Council of Constance to help end the Great Western Schism."



Perhaps Benedict XVI resigned to help end the Great Schism. Well, I can hope, can't I?
« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 01:53:20 PM by Jetavan » Logged

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« Reply #61 on: February 11, 2013, 01:59:27 PM »

So the ancient Pentarchy is getting a clean sweep.  New Coptic Pope of Alexandria, new Greek Patriarch of Antioch, now a new Pope of Rome by the Spring.  Anybody checked on Patriarch Bartholomew I if he's booking a Mediterranean Cruise in the near future?
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« Reply #62 on: February 11, 2013, 02:01:02 PM »

So the ancient Pentarchy is getting a clean sweep.  New Coptic Pope of Alexandria, new Greek Patriarch of Antioch, now a new Pope of Rome by the Spring.  Anybody checked on Patriarch Bartholomew I if he's booking a Mediterranean Cruise in the near future?

You forgot the Armenian Patriarch of Jerusalem.
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« Reply #63 on: February 11, 2013, 02:01:27 PM »

So the ancient Pentarchy is getting a clean sweep.  New Coptic Pope of Alexandria, new Greek Patriarch of Antioch, now a new Pope of Rome by the Spring.  Anybody checked on Patriarch Bartholomew I if he's booking a Mediterranean Cruise in the near future?

There is a Rule of Five?
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« Reply #64 on: February 11, 2013, 02:20:00 PM »

By the list recently posted, it appears that Benedict XVI probably has much in common with Celestine V.
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« Reply #65 on: February 11, 2013, 02:20:40 PM »

Surprising news, but it makes sense.  I never understood why cardinals aged 80 and over are barred from participating in a conclave, but that the Pope himself can stay in office past that age.  Not to mention that all other diocesan bishops are required to submit their resignations when they reach 75.  I hope that Pope Benedict has a long retirement which enables him to recover his health.  He is a good man and has been a good Pope.
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« Reply #66 on: February 11, 2013, 02:21:58 PM »

In Light of the World, Pope Benedict responded unambiguously to a question about whether a pope could resign: "Yes. If a Pope clearly realizes that he is no longer physically, psychologically, and spiritually capable of handling the duties of his office, then he has a right and, under some circumstances, also an obligation to resign."
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« Reply #67 on: February 11, 2013, 02:23:26 PM »

I'm also sorry to see him go...  Sad

From his days as a Cardinal:

Lamenting not having the spare time to visit Rome or read anything else but theology.


The Church is not a democracy - an interesting talk in Italian.

Vespers in the Chartreuse of Serra San Bruno in October 2011 - a beautiful sermon from 56' onward. Speaks loads about where his heart is. Unfortunately, no English subtitles here either.


« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 02:39:39 PM by Romaios » Logged
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« Reply #68 on: February 11, 2013, 02:23:39 PM »

I don't understand the idea of resigning from papacy. I know that according to RCC papacy is a office and not a sacrament but still there is something fishy in the idea.

I think he said he's too sick to do the daily work. That's what I heard on the news.
Being an 85 year old Pope is not an easy task. With the increase in life expectancy, I suspect we will see more Popes who resign over the next 100 years.

By "something fishy in the idea" I mean that idea of Benedict ceasing to be a pope. Retired bishops are still bishops but I assume retired pope would cease to be a pope.
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« Reply #69 on: February 11, 2013, 02:36:01 PM »

So the ancient Pentarchy is getting a clean sweep.  New Coptic Pope of Alexandria, new Greek Patriarch of Antioch, now a new Pope of Rome by the Spring.  Anybody checked on Patriarch Bartholomew I if he's booking a Mediterranean Cruise in the near future?

Why? Thinking he might have an accident during 'lifeboat drill'? Sadly too many people die during these drills. I don't recommend participating in a fire boat drill, whether or not you're a Patriarch.
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« Reply #70 on: February 11, 2013, 02:52:13 PM »

So the ancient Pentarchy is getting a clean sweep.  New Coptic Pope of Alexandria, new Greek Patriarch of Antioch, now a new Pope of Rome by the Spring.  Anybody checked on Patriarch Bartholomew I if he's booking a Mediterranean Cruise in the near future?

You forgot the Armenian Patriarch of Jerusalem.

Many do.
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« Reply #71 on: February 11, 2013, 02:52:29 PM »

Last time I saw him-the pope I mean- he said he was planing on becoming an inquirer  at the closest OCA or Antiochian mission church as soon as he resigned, hoping to be Chrismated on Pascha. He said he couldn't bear celebrating it once more on the wrong calendar.
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« Reply #72 on: February 11, 2013, 02:57:38 PM »

I don't understand the idea of resigning from papacy. I know that according to RCC papacy is a office and not a sacrament but still there is something fishy in the idea.

I don't see why, other than the fact that it hasn't happened since before the Council of Florence.
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« Reply #73 on: February 11, 2013, 02:57:53 PM »

Last time I saw him-the pope I mean- he said he was planing on becoming an inquirer  at the closest OCA or Antiochian mission church as soon as he resigned, hoping to be Chrismated on Pascha. He said he couldn't bear celebrating it once more on the wrong calendar.

Pope Michael, you mean?  laugh
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« Reply #74 on: February 11, 2013, 03:06:16 PM »

By the list recently posted, it appears that Benedict XVI probably has much in common with Celestine V.
Scott Hahn posted this on Facebook earlier. Resignation seems to have been on his mind for sometime :

"Back on April 29, 2009, Pope Benedict XVI did something rather striking, but which went largely unnoticed.

He stopped off in Aquila, Italy, and visited the tomb of an obscure medieval Pope named St. Celestine V (1215-1296). After a brief prayer, he left his pallium, the symbol of his own episcopal authority as Bishop of Rome, on top of Celestine's tomb!

Fifteen months later, on July 4, 2010, Benedict went out of his way again, this time to visit and pray in the cathedral of Sulmona, near Rome, before the relics of this same saint, Celestine V.

Few people, however, noticed at the time.

Only now, we may be gaining a better understanding of what it meant. These actions were probably more than pious acts. More likely, they were profound and symbolic gestures of a very personal nature, which conveyed a message that a Pope can hardly deliver any other way.

In the year 1294, this man (Fr. Pietro Angelerio), known by all as a devout and holy priest, was elected Pope, somewhat against his will, shortly before his 80th birthday (Ratzinger was 78 when he was elected Pope in 2005). Just five months later, after issuing a formal decree allowing popes to resign (or abdicate, like other rulers), Pope Celestine V exercised that right. And now Pope Benedict XVI has chosen to follow in the footsteps of this venerable model.
"
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« Reply #75 on: February 11, 2013, 03:07:28 PM »

Last time I saw him-the pope I mean- he said he was planing on becoming an inquirer  at the closest OCA or Antiochian mission church as soon as he resigned, hoping to be Chrismated on Pascha. He said he couldn't bear celebrating it once more on the wrong calendar.

Will he be received via Vesting as a Patriarch?
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« Reply #76 on: February 11, 2013, 03:09:28 PM »

So the ancient Pentarchy is getting a clean sweep.  New Coptic Pope of Alexandria, new Greek Patriarch of Antioch, now a new Pope of Rome by the Spring.  Anybody checked on Patriarch Bartholomew I if he's booking a Mediterranean Cruise in the near future?

Why? Thinking he might have an accident during 'lifeboat drill'? Sadly too many people die during these drills. I don't recommend participating in a fire boat drill, whether or not you're a Patriarch.

No, going on a cruise is usually what people in retirement do.  Why does he have to have an accident?  Pope Benedict is just retiring.
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« Reply #77 on: February 11, 2013, 03:09:43 PM »

Quote
Will he be received via Vesting as a Patriarch?
Chrismation most likely and then on the fast track to becoming OCA's next metropolitan. By fall or so.
He'll be properly catechized by Fr. Hopko himself.
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« Reply #78 on: February 11, 2013, 03:12:27 PM »

My hope is that, whomever is selected as the new Pope, he picks a good name like Michael, and not one that's hard to spell.

There already is a Pope Michael:


There's apparently a documentary about Pope Michael that's free for viewing.

I know what I'll be watching during my lunch hour.

If you want to feel a little depressed . . .

I should have listen to this warning, I could not go more than the first 15 minutes, but by then the damage was done. I would categorize  this under ' more than a little depressing' even without seeing the whole pitiful and disturbing story.

A little depressed was for my dear Schultzl who is immune to Weltschmerz, if only from having drunk from its cup so deeply.

Most people would require an SSRI to make it through the documentary.

I actually found this very sad.

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« Reply #79 on: February 11, 2013, 03:15:22 PM »

First what I thought "He took them (Roman Catholics) just before the most important time of the year - the Great Lent and Holy Week!".

Then it reminded me of a movie realesed in 2011 "Habemus Papam". If somebody has seen it, he knows what I mean. Here you can watch a trailer
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« Reply #80 on: February 11, 2013, 03:20:17 PM »

Stephen Colbert
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« Reply #81 on: February 11, 2013, 03:20:26 PM »

Quote
Will he be received via Vesting as a Patriarch?
Chrismation most likely and then on the fast track to becoming OCA's next metropolitan. By fall or so.

You... I like you...
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« Reply #82 on: February 11, 2013, 03:24:23 PM »

Stephen Colbert

I will return to the Catholic Church if that happens
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« Reply #83 on: February 11, 2013, 03:30:12 PM »

Stephen Colbert

I will return to the Catholic Church if that happens

Come on back, then, and welcome home!! Grin  For, you see, Stephen Colbert *has* happened.  No, he didn't and won't become Pope, but Jetavan didn't say anything about that that I saw.  Grin Grin
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« Reply #84 on: February 11, 2013, 03:33:17 PM »

Benedict XVI was a great and erudite Pope. I think it's sad he resigns. I hope that an Eastern Catholic cardinal is elected Pope.

I think that is impossible because the Latin Catholic Pope is required to be of the Roman-rite.

There was a thread about the Pope being "omni-ritual" (although I don't know if I could find it now).

The Eastern Catholics have their own patriarchs who are appointed by the Latin Pope and are subject to the Latin Pope.

This is false (as others already pointed out). EC patriarchs aren't appointed by the pope. -edited
« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 03:44:07 PM by Peter J » Logged

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« Reply #85 on: February 11, 2013, 03:39:20 PM »

By the list recently posted, it appears that Benedict XVI probably has much in common with Celestine V.
Scott Hahn posted this on Facebook earlier. Resignation seems to have been on his mind for sometime :

"Back on April 29, 2009, Pope Benedict XVI did something rather striking, but which went largely unnoticed.

He stopped off in Aquila, Italy, and visited the tomb of an obscure medieval Pope named St. Celestine V (1215-1296). After a brief prayer, he left his pallium, the symbol of his own episcopal authority as Bishop of Rome, on top of Celestine's tomb!

Fifteen months later, on July 4, 2010, Benedict went out of his way again, this time to visit and pray in the cathedral of Sulmona, near Rome, before the relics of this same saint, Celestine V.
"

Interesting. They were talking a bit about Celestine on EWTN this morning, but they didn't mention those actions of Benedict's.
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« Reply #86 on: February 11, 2013, 03:40:52 PM »

This is false (as others already pointed out).

We should stop pretending that it is not true.  It is.  Why would the Patriarchs come to Rome when the Pope summons them to *his* synod?  It is a pipe dream to think that the EC Patriarchs are not subject to the Pope.
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« Reply #87 on: February 11, 2013, 03:41:13 PM »

Benedict XVI was a great and erudite Pope. I think it's sad he resigns. I hope that an Eastern Catholic cardinal is elected Pope.

Trying..........to........hold......my......breath...(gasp)...

Huh?

To put it mildly, an Eastern Catholic Pope would probably have a negative impact on Orthodox-Catholic relations.

Most Orthodox would much prefer a "Latin" Pope over an Eastern Catholic one.

I think the Orthodox are happy as long as they have something to complain about -- which they would, either way.
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« Reply #88 on: February 11, 2013, 03:52:18 PM »

Benedict XVI was a great and erudite Pope. I think it's sad he resigns. I hope that an Eastern Catholic cardinal is elected Pope.

Trying..........to........hold......my......breath...(gasp)...

Huh?

To put it mildly, an Eastern Catholic Pope would probably have a negative impact on Orthodox-Catholic relations.

Most Orthodox would much prefer a "Latin" Pope over an Eastern Catholic one.

It seems too early for the fifth column to move.
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« Reply #89 on: February 11, 2013, 03:53:39 PM »

To put it mildly, an Easter Catholic Pope would probably have a negative impact on Orthodox-Catholic relations.

Most Orthodox would much prefer a "Latin" Pope over an Eastern Catholic one.

So? A Byzantine Pope would be awesome. An Oriental one is fine too.

Assuming hell froze over to make it happen, he would most likely cease being Byzantine/Oriental upon election.
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If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
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