Author Topic: Video: Enthronement of Patriarch John X of Antioch  (Read 3474 times)

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Offline ag_vn

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Video: Enthronement of Patriarch John X of Antioch
« on: February 10, 2013, 03:41:42 PM »
10th February 2013, Damascus:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blOtFqsE6nA

Offline Cantor Krishnich

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Re: Video: Enthronement of Patriarch John X of Antioch
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2013, 04:59:56 PM »
Axios! Mabrook!
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Offline Basil 320

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Re: Video: Enthronement of Patriarch John X of Antioch
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2013, 05:48:49 PM »
"Many Years" to His Beatitude, the newly enthroned Patriarch John of Antioch and All the East!
"...Strengthen the Orthodox Community..."

Offline minasoliman

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Re: Video: Enthronement of Patriarch John X of Antioch
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2013, 07:05:07 PM »
Many Years to HB!

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Offline Nephi

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Re: Video: Enthronement of Patriarch John X of Antioch
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2013, 10:58:45 PM »
Many Years!

Offline Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)

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Re: Video: Enthronement of Patriarch John X of Antioch
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2013, 03:26:28 PM »
Many years!

Offline dhinuus

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Re: Video: Enthronement of Patriarch John X of Antioch
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2013, 10:36:41 AM »
The ailing Syriac Orthodox Patriarch of Antioch H.H Ignatius Zakka visited the newly enthroned Greek Orthodox Patriarch of Antioch, H.B John X.
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Re: Video: Enthronement of Patriarch John X of Antioch
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2013, 10:53:53 AM »
Interesting that they used different languages. I could recognise Arabic, Greek, German and French.

Offline minasoliman

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Re: Video: Enthronement of Patriarch John X of Antioch
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2013, 11:13:48 AM »
The ailing Syriac Orthodox Patriarch of Antioch H.H Ignatius Zakka visited the newly enthroned Greek Orthodox Patriarch of Antioch, H.B John X.


It's truly remarkable how HH Mar Ignatius Zakka despite his ailing condition would go through lengths to actually visit himself the enthronements of patriarchs, rather than send a representative bishop.
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Offline Nephi

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Re: Video: Enthronement of Patriarch John X of Antioch
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2013, 07:14:34 PM »
It's truly remarkable how HH Mar Ignatius Zakka despite his ailing condition would go through lengths to actually visit himself the enthronements of patriarchs, rather than send a representative bishop.

It seemed to me that HH Mar Ignatius Zakka and recent HB Patriarch Igantius IV were pretty friendly, which maybe has something to do with it but I could be wrong.

Offline minasoliman

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Re: Video: Enthronement of Patriarch John X of Antioch
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2013, 09:07:10 PM »
More than friendly...they made intercommunion agreements.
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Offline Nephi

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Re: Video: Enthronement of Patriarch John X of Antioch
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2013, 09:13:17 PM »
More than friendly...they made intercommunion agreements.

I was aware of this agreement, but it doesn't mention communion. Is there another one regarding communion?

Offline minasoliman

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Re: Video: Enthronement of Patriarch John X of Antioch
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2013, 10:03:46 PM »
I also understand later that a congregant of one church can have communion in another if it's closer, or just visiting even I heard.
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Offline WPM

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Re: Video: Enthronement of Patriarch John X of Antioch
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2013, 10:11:44 PM »
axios
« Last Edit: February 17, 2013, 10:11:56 PM by WPM »
Learn meditation.

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Re: Video: Enthronement of Patriarch John X of Antioch
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2013, 10:21:38 PM »
I also understand later that a congregant of one church can have communion in another if it's closer, or just visiting even I heard.
That may be the Coptic understanding, but the Greek Orthodox of Antioch understanding is that this is in situations only where it is difficult for the communicant to make it to its own communion. In particular situations that exist specifically in Syria and some of the Gulf States, where only one "Christian" community may exist in certain locals due to government regulations. Although many Oriental Orthodox try to claim this applies to them, it only applies to the Greek Orthodox of Antioch and Syriac Orthodox of Antioch. From the previously linked to document...

Quote
9. In localities where there is only one priest, from either Church, he will celebrate services for the faithful of both Churches, including the Divien Liturgy, pastoral duties, and holy matrimony. He will keep an independent record for each Church and transmit that of the sister Church to its authorities.


So members of the Syriac community may commune at the Greek community if no Syriac community is near by without confessing allegiance to the Greek Orthodox, and still be able to return to Syriac Orthodox without any impediment.

It has been made very clear that these rules exist for the situation in the Middle East and do not apply to diaspora. Also, it does not provide for any con-celebration of the Eucharist amongst the clergy. It is strictly a pastoral agreement on how to minister to the faithful of both confessions.  
Joseph

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Re: Video: Enthronement of Patriarch John X of Antioch
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2013, 10:37:11 PM »
Also, it does not provide for any con-celebration of the Eucharist amongst the clergy.

It seems to assume that concelebration exists, while not giving directives necessarily.

Quote
11. If a bishop from one Church and a priest from the sister Church happen to concelebrate a service, the first will preside even when it is the priest's parish.

Which follows after these:

Quote
6. If bishops of the two Churches participate at a holy baptism or funeral service, the one belonging to the Church of the baptized or deceased will preside. In case of a holy matrimony service, the bishop of the bridegroom's Church will preside.

7. The above mentioned is not applicable to the concelebration in the Divine Liturgy.

8. What applies to bishops equally applies to the priests of both Churches.

9. In localities where there is only one priest, from either Church, he will celebrate services for the faithful of both Churches, including the Divien Liturgy, pastoral duties, and holy matrimony. He will keep an independent record for each Church and transmit that of the sister Church to its authorities.

10. If two priests of the two Churches happen to be in a locality where there is only one Church, they take turns in making use of its facilities.

#7 is in reference to #6, which is to non-Eucharistic services being delivered to certain individuals. The DL is not to certain individuals, and thus the bishop (or priest) to preside could not be based on the individuals' affiliation - hence #7 clarifying #6. That, coupled with #11 giving presiding rules over bishop-priest concelebration (with no distinction between DL and other services) leads me to assume that it's speaking toward any concelebration - including Eucharistic.

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Re: Video: Enthronement of Patriarch John X of Antioch
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2013, 11:26:54 PM »
I also understand later that a congregant of one church can have communion in another if it's closer, or just visiting even I heard.
That may be the Coptic understanding, but the Greek Orthodox of Antioch understanding is that this is in situations only where it is difficult for the communicant to make it to its own communion. In particular situations that exist specifically in Syria and some of the Gulf States, where only one "Christian" community may exist in certain locals due to government regulations. Although many Oriental Orthodox try to claim this applies to them, it only applies to the Greek Orthodox of Antioch and Syriac Orthodox of Antioch. From the previously linked to document...

Quote
9. In localities where there is only one priest, from either Church, he will celebrate services for the faithful of both Churches, including the Divien Liturgy, pastoral duties, and holy matrimony. He will keep an independent record for each Church and transmit that of the sister Church to its authorities.


So members of the Syriac community may commune at the Greek community if no Syriac community is near by without confessing allegiance to the Greek Orthodox, and still be able to return to Syriac Orthodox without any impediment.

It has been made very clear that these rules exist for the situation in the Middle East and do not apply to diaspora. Also, it does not provide for any con-celebration of the Eucharist amongst the clergy. It is strictly a pastoral agreement on how to minister to the faithful of both confessions.  
Oh I didn't say this applies to other OO's.   I know we Copts have stricter rules.

FWIW, an Antiochian priest here in the US didn't mind giving me the Eucharist so long as it causes no problems with my own bishop. 
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Offline arimethea

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Re: Video: Enthronement of Patriarch John X of Antioch
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2013, 12:13:22 AM »
Also, it does not provide for any con-celebration of the Eucharist amongst the clergy.

It seems to assume that concelebration exists, while not giving directives necessarily.

Quote
11. If a bishop from one Church and a priest from the sister Church happen to concelebrate a service, the first will preside even when it is the priest's parish.

Which follows after these:

Quote
6. If bishops of the two Churches participate at a holy baptism or funeral service, the one belonging to the Church of the baptized or deceased will preside. In case of a holy matrimony service, the bishop of the bridegroom's Church will preside.

7. The above mentioned is not applicable to the concelebration in the Divine Liturgy.

8. What applies to bishops equally applies to the priests of both Churches.

9. In localities where there is only one priest, from either Church, he will celebrate services for the faithful of both Churches, including the Divien Liturgy, pastoral duties, and holy matrimony. He will keep an independent record for each Church and transmit that of the sister Church to its authorities.

10. If two priests of the two Churches happen to be in a locality where there is only one Church, they take turns in making use of its facilities.

#7 is in reference to #6, which is to non-Eucharistic services being delivered to certain individuals. The DL is not to certain individuals, and thus the bishop (or priest) to preside could not be based on the individuals' affiliation - hence #7 clarifying #6. That, coupled with #11 giving presiding rules over bishop-priest concelebration (with no distinction between DL and other services) leads me to assume that it's speaking toward any concelebration - including Eucharistic.

Not to derail this further, but the distinction is "service" vs. "Divine Liturgy" so there is no con-celebration of the Divine Liturgy. I know some have read it as you are saying but that is wrong, and has been clarified by the Greek Orthodox Synod of Antioch on several occasions now.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2013, 12:13:47 AM by arimethea »
Joseph

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Re: Video: Enthronement of Patriarch John X of Antioch
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2013, 12:23:54 AM »
Not to derail this further, but the distinction is "service" vs. "Divine Liturgy" so there is no con-celebration of the Divine Liturgy. I know some have read it as you are saying but that is wrong, and has been clarified by the Greek Orthodox Synod of Antioch on several occasions now.

I see. The confusion just arose because #9 included the DL as a "service" itself, and not juxtaposed to it. Do you have any links to the Antiochian Synod's statements?

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Re: Video: Enthronement of Patriarch John X of Antioch
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2013, 12:28:15 AM »
Not to derail this further, but the distinction is "service" vs. "Divine Liturgy" so there is no con-celebration of the Divine Liturgy. I know some have read it as you are saying but that is wrong, and has been clarified by the Greek Orthodox Synod of Antioch on several occasions now.

I see. The confusion just arose because #9 included the DL as a "service" itself, and not juxtaposed to it. Do you have any links to the Antiochian Synod's statements?

They were on the old antiochpat.org in Arabic, but I could not find them in the midst of their reorganization of the site.

Plus, Provision #9 is speaking specifically of locals where only one church, and one priest exist.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2013, 12:29:33 AM by arimethea »
Joseph

Offline ag_vn

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Re: Video: Enthronement of Patriarch John X of Antioch
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2013, 04:17:03 AM »
Interesting that they used different languages. I could recognise Arabic, Greek, German and French.

There was also English, Church Slavonic and Portuguese. The only represented local Eastern Orthodox Church was the Bulgarian Patriarchate by Metropolitan Nathaniel of Nevrokop. Although his speech was in Greek, at the great entrance he commemorated Patriarch John in Church Slavonic. Metropolitan Damaskinos of Sao Paolo and Brazil commemorated him in Portuguese. And a part of some litany was in English.

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Re: Video: Enthronement of Patriarch John X of Antioch
« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2013, 05:40:30 AM »
Interesting that they used different languages. I could recognise Arabic, Greek, German and French.

There was also English, Church Slavonic and Portuguese. The only represented local Eastern Orthodox Church was the Bulgarian Patriarchate by Metropolitan Nathaniel of Nevrokop. Although his speech was in Greek, at the great entrance he commemorated Patriarch John in Church Slavonic. Metropolitan Damaskinos of Sao Paolo and Brazil commemorated him in Portuguese. And a part of some litany was in English.

I also heard Italian. At first I thought it was Latin  :D

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Re: Video: Enthronement of Patriarch John X of Antioch
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2013, 05:22:18 PM »
Interesting that they used different languages. I could recognise Arabic, Greek, German and French.

There was also English, Church Slavonic and Portuguese. The only represented local Eastern Orthodox Church was the Bulgarian Patriarchate by Metropolitan Nathaniel of Nevrokop. Although his speech was in Greek, at the great entrance he commemorated Patriarch John in Church Slavonic. Metropolitan Damaskinos of Sao Paolo and Brazil commemorated him in Portuguese. And a part of some litany was in English.

I also heard Italian. At first I thought it was Latin  :D

For sure there was Italian, but I think in the first litany (ekteny) there was Latin too.


On the last Sunday a solemn Liturgy in Beirut took place. There were also some bishops outside Antiochian Patriarchate (actually, all jurisdictions except Bulgarian one because of patriarchal elections). Here you can watch this Liturgy.
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Re: Video: Enthronement of Patriarch John X of Antioch
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2013, 05:23:14 PM »
On the last Sunday a solemn Liturgy in Beirut took place. There were also some bishops outside Antiochian Patriarchate (actually, all jurisdictions except Bulgarian one because of patriarchal elections). Here you can watch this Liturgy.

Who represented ours?
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Re: Video: Enthronement of Patriarch John X of Antioch
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2013, 05:26:30 PM »
Interesting that they used different languages. I could recognise Arabic, Greek, German and French.

There was also English, Church Slavonic and Portuguese. The only represented local Eastern Orthodox Church was the Bulgarian Patriarchate by Metropolitan Nathaniel of Nevrokop. Although his speech was in Greek, at the great entrance he commemorated Patriarch John in Church Slavonic. Metropolitan Damaskinos of Sao Paolo and Brazil commemorated him in Portuguese. And a part of some litany was in English.

I also heard Italian. At first I thought it was Latin  :D

For sure there was Italian, but I think in the first litany (ekteny) there was Latin too.

Yes, at the twelve minute mark! That's strange but awesome!

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Re: Video: Enthronement of Patriarch John X of Antioch
« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2013, 05:35:23 PM »
On the last Sunday a solemn Liturgy in Beirut took place. There were also some bishops outside Antiochian Patriarchate (actually, all jurisdictions except Bulgarian one because of patriarchal elections). Here you can watch this Liturgy.

Who represented ours?

Archibishop Abel. You can read about it here (as you can easily notice, this article was edited by me)


Interesting that they used different languages. I could recognise Arabic, Greek, German and French.

There was also English, Church Slavonic and Portuguese. The only represented local Eastern Orthodox Church was the Bulgarian Patriarchate by Metropolitan Nathaniel of Nevrokop. Although his speech was in Greek, at the great entrance he commemorated Patriarch John in Church Slavonic. Metropolitan Damaskinos of Sao Paolo and Brazil commemorated him in Portuguese. And a part of some litany was in English.

I also heard Italian. At first I thought it was Latin  :D

For sure there was Italian, but I think in the first litany (ekteny) there was Latin too.

Yes, at the twelve minute mark! That's strange but awesome!



But I wonder, why there was no Spanish, as Antiochian Patriarchate is probably the most popular mission in Latin America
« Last Edit: February 18, 2013, 05:36:46 PM by Dominika »
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Re: Video: Enthronement of Patriarch John X of Antioch
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2013, 05:36:28 PM »
On the last Sunday a solemn Liturgy in Beirut took place. There were also some bishops outside Antiochian Patriarchate (actually, all jurisdictions except Bulgarian one because of patriarchal elections). Here you can watch this Liturgy.

Who represented ours?

Archibishop Abel. You can read about it here here (as you can easily notice, this article was edited by me)


Cool.
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Re: Video: Enthronement of Patriarch John X of Antioch
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2013, 05:43:43 PM »
On the last Sunday a solemn Liturgy in Beirut took place. There were also some bishops outside Antiochian Patriarchate (actually, all jurisdictions except Bulgarian one because of patriarchal elections). Here you can watch this Liturgy.

Who represented ours?

Archibishop Abel. You can read about it here here (as you can easily notice, this article was edited by me)


Cool.

That's good that at least somebody was present at this Liturgy, becasue there was nobody from Polish Orthodox Church at the burial (even in Beirut) of patriarch Ignatius.
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Re: Video: Enthronement of Patriarch John X of Antioch
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2013, 05:47:44 PM »
On the last Sunday a solemn Liturgy in Beirut took place. There were also some bishops outside Antiochian Patriarchate (actually, all jurisdictions except Bulgarian one because of patriarchal elections). Here you can watch this Liturgy.

Who represented ours?

Archibishop Abel. You can read about it here here (as you can easily notice, this article was edited by me)


Cool.

That's good that at least somebody was present at this Liturgy, because there was nobody from Polish Orthodox Church at the burial (even in Beirut) of patriarch Ignatius.

Church of Antioch is the only one whose primate hasn't been visitted by ours and the only one that hasn't been visitted by our primate.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2013, 05:48:07 PM by Michał Kalina »
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Re: Video: Enthronement of Patriarch John X of Antioch
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2013, 05:55:35 PM »
Archibishop Abel. You can read about it here here (as you can easily notice, this article was edited by me)

That's good that at least somebody was present at this Liturgy, because there was nobody from Polish Orthodox Church at the burial (even in Beirut) of patriarch Ignatius.

Church of Antioch is the only one whose primate hasn't been visitted by ours and the only one that hasn't been visitted by our primate.

And I really regret it, because it's my favourite local Church (of course I don't count Serbian one, because it's obvious) and it does a great missionary work and they need our support, especially in the Mideast. And if these contacts were better, Orthodox Christians in Poland wouldn't associate Orthodoxy only with other Slavic countries and Greeks  only. I hope the fact that abp. Abel represented our Church will change something. But I know, it's an off-topic
« Last Edit: February 18, 2013, 05:59:08 PM by Dominika »
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Re: Video: Enthronement of Patriarch John X of Antioch
« Reply #30 on: February 21, 2013, 12:37:25 PM »
Who represented the OCA?
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Offline arimethea

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Re: Video: Enthronement of Patriarch John X of Antioch
« Reply #31 on: February 21, 2013, 12:47:52 PM »
Who represented the OCA?

Archbishop Benjamin, and Bishop Irenee. The can be seen sitting with the Orthodox dignitaries on the right side of the solea.
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Offline sheenj

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Re: Video: Enthronement of Patriarch John X of Antioch
« Reply #32 on: February 21, 2013, 12:55:41 PM »
Interesting that they used different languages. I could recognise Arabic, Greek, German and French.

There was also English, Church Slavonic and Portuguese. The only represented local Eastern Orthodox Church was the Bulgarian Patriarchate by Metropolitan Nathaniel of Nevrokop. Although his speech was in Greek, at the great entrance he commemorated Patriarch John in Church Slavonic. Metropolitan Damaskinos of Sao Paolo and Brazil commemorated him in Portuguese. And a part of some litany was in English.

I also heard Italian. At first I thought it was Latin  :D

For sure there was Italian, but I think in the first litany (ekteny) there was Latin too.

Yes, at the twelve minute mark! That's strange but awesome!

Was there any Syriac used? I remember reading that some circles in Antioch were trying to incorporate more of their Syriac Heritage into their services.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 12:55:51 PM by sheenj »

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Re: Video: Enthronement of Patriarch John X of Antioch
« Reply #33 on: February 21, 2013, 02:50:19 PM »
Interesting that they used different languages. I could recognise Arabic, Greek, German and French.

There was also English, Church Slavonic and Portuguese. The only represented local Eastern Orthodox Church was the Bulgarian Patriarchate by Metropolitan Nathaniel of Nevrokop. Although his speech was in Greek, at the great entrance he commemorated Patriarch John in Church Slavonic. Metropolitan Damaskinos of Sao Paolo and Brazil commemorated him in Portuguese. And a part of some litany was in English.

I also heard Italian. At first I thought it was Latin  :D

For sure there was Italian, but I think in the first litany (ekteny) there was Latin too.

Yes, at the twelve minute mark! That's strange but awesome!

Was there any Syriac used? I remember reading that some circles in Antioch were trying to incorporate more of their Syriac Heritage into their services.

Unfortunately not. Frankly speaking, I've heard only one EO Antiochian recordrng in Syriac - Paschal troparion on the website of the Hamatoura Monastery
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Offline Fotina02

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Re: Video: Enthronement of Patriarch John X of Antioch
« Reply #34 on: February 21, 2013, 03:05:01 PM »
At Patriarch John X of Antioch’s enthronement celebrations in Beirut:

Prayers were said in Arabic, Greek, Latin, Church Slavonic, Georgian, Serbian, Romanian, Czech, French, English and German.

https://mospat.ru/en/2013/02/18/news81261/