OrthodoxChristianity.net
September 19, 2014, 10:13:46 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 »   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Was Christ really Jewish?  (Read 7342 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Shanghaiski
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,970


Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #90 on: February 12, 2013, 12:32:30 PM »

Kilroy was here - MK

There are some things Windex cannot cure.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2013, 07:23:14 AM by Michał Kalina » Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 12,808


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #91 on: February 12, 2013, 03:14:42 PM »

Summery:

His Mother was Jewish. She served in the Temple. Non Jews cant serve in the Temple

Many details in his preaching are references to Jewish religious customs but you need to be expert  about how Judaism was practiced to see them. There are some good books about it.

He was ritually circumsized which is the definitive evidence that he was Jewish

His preaching is clearly in line with the Hillel School, which at the time was a philosophical tendency within Pharisee ism. It's based on the Golden Rule. Jesus taught and expanded upon this well known form of Judaism.

He read in the Synagogue. This is reserved for adult Jewish Males

He was Jewish. He taught well within the confines of the Judaism of his times albeit a more minor thread.

Fini 
Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
rakovsky
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Posts: 4,286



WWW
« Reply #92 on: February 12, 2013, 06:50:53 PM »

His preaching is clearly in line with the Hillel School, which at the time was a philosophical tendency within Pharisee ism. It's based on the Golden Rule. Jesus taught and expanded upon this well known form of Judaism.
Marc,

Obviously Jesus was Jewish. However, I am very doubtful that Jesus was simply within the "Hillel school" of pharisee-ism. Nor would being within a known school of Judaism be a requirement to be Jewish in a religious sense, as rabbinic law considers even those it labels heretics/apostates to be Jewish.

First, Jesus pointed out that they generally rejected John the Baptist. While pharisee-ism could admittedly be broad enough to include a wide range of groups, doubt that the Christians could be simply categorized as followers of Hillel. In this case, the importance of Baptism as a once-for-all cleansing was significantly different than what Hillel or his main followers taught- and wouldn't some of those followers still be around in Jesus' time?

Secondly, the New Testament mentions a time when St James acted in a superior way to St Peter and instructed him to avoid eating with gentiles. This teaching was more in line with the teaching of Shammai than Hillel. Granted, this was not Jesus' instruction, and the Church overcame it eventually. But it shows enough difference that Jesus as a rabbi with students like St James cannot be simply classed as followers of Hillel.

Third, there are other notable differences- Jesus emphasized prayer and Christians sometimes heal people, but these are much less central to Hillel. And would Hillel have gone so far as to tell people to carry things on the Sabbath and forgive sins?

Finally, I see in labeling Jesus as a "student of Hillel" something that downplays his independence in philosophy, subordinating his doctrines to the pharisees', while the Bible distinguishes Him from them. After all, is there someplace in Orthodoxy that describes His teachings as a repetition or explanation of Hillel's?

Regards.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 06:51:38 PM by rakovsky » Logged
rakovsky
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Posts: 4,286



WWW
« Reply #93 on: February 12, 2013, 06:57:04 PM »

Metzitzah b'peh was also practised to prevent the infection.
I read that this is a more recent, rabbinic practice, actually has a danger of causing infection, and is unusual in the rabbinic community.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 06:57:23 PM by rakovsky » Logged
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 12,808


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #94 on: February 12, 2013, 10:38:06 PM »

His preaching is clearly in line with the Hillel School, which at the time was a philosophical tendency within Pharisee ism. It's based on the Golden Rule. Jesus taught and expanded upon this well known form of Judaism.
Marc,

Obviously Jesus was Jewish. However, I am very doubtful that Jesus was simply within the "Hillel school" of pharisee-ism. Nor would being within a known school of Judaism be a requirement to be Jewish in a religious sense, as rabbinic law considers even those it labels heretics/apostates to be Jewish.

First, Jesus pointed out that they generally rejected John the Baptist. While pharisee-ism could admittedly be broad enough to include a wide range of groups, doubt that the Christians could be simply categorized as followers of Hillel. In this case, the importance of Baptism as a once-for-all cleansing was significantly different than what Hillel or his main followers taught- and wouldn't some of those followers still be around in Jesus' time?

Secondly, the New Testament mentions a time when St James acted in a superior way to St Peter and instructed him to avoid eating with gentiles. This teaching was more in line with the teaching of Shammai than Hillel. Granted, this was not Jesus' instruction, and the Church overcame it eventually. But it shows enough difference that Jesus as a rabbi with students like St James cannot be simply classed as followers of Hillel.

Third, there are other notable differences- Jesus emphasized prayer and Christians sometimes heal people, but these are much less central to Hillel. And would Hillel have gone so far as to tell people to carry things on the Sabbath and forgive sins?

Finally, I see in labeling Jesus as a "student of Hillel" something that downplays his independence in philosophy, subordinating his doctrines to the pharisees', while the Bible distinguishes Him from them. After all, is there someplace in Orthodoxy that describes His teachings as a repetition or explanation of Hillel's?

Regards.

Jesus taught a version of the Golden Rule philosophy also articulated by Rabbi Hillel. He also echoed concerns of the Hillel faction such as healing on the Sabbath.

I never said Jesus was "A student of Hillel" now did I? Hillel died in 10 CE long before the life of Jesus. I am also not surprised that the far more dominant faction of Shammi also had some influence on people such as St. James  .

The assertion was that Jesus may have been "culturally Jewish" but he did not practice the Jewish Religion which is sheer nonsense. I have pointed out how that could not be true including how similar the teachings of Jesus are to the teachings of Hillel, which is a true.  
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 10:39:09 PM by Marc1152 » Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
Romaios
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Romanian
Posts: 2,933



« Reply #95 on: February 13, 2013, 09:56:48 AM »

Orthodoxy is Hellenism - Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew

"Salvation is from the Jews." - Jesus Christ (John 4:22)
Logged
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 12,808


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #96 on: February 13, 2013, 04:55:17 PM »

Just to be a bit clearer. The teachings of Jesus are easily recognizeable as being well within the Jewish Tradition and strongly resemble the teachings of Rabbi Hillel.

It is interesting to note that Rabbi Shammai is long forgotten but Rabbi Hillel is still revered.
Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
JamesR
Virginal Chicano Blood
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox (but doubtful)
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church *of* America
Posts: 5,623


St. Augustine of Hippo pray for me!


« Reply #97 on: February 13, 2013, 04:56:36 PM »

The golden rule came from Confucias; not the Jews...
Logged

Quote
You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
Quote
James, you have problemz.
Romaios
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Romanian
Posts: 2,933



« Reply #98 on: February 13, 2013, 05:10:33 PM »

The golden rule came from Confucius; not the Jews...

There have been cases in the history of science where people working independently discovered/invented the same thing.

The "golden rule" is so general and axiomatic, that it didn't need to be supernaturally revealed or invented. People of any age could have reached the same conclusion drawing on their own experience and interaction with other humans. As in many other instances, Our Lord merely confirms what should have been common/already revealed knowledge. This is why he asks Nicodemus: "You are a teacher of Israel and don't know these things?" or often sends people back to the Ten Commandments, the Law of Moses, common sense.   
Logged
biro
Excelsior
Site Supporter
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox
Posts: 13,419


Και κλήρονομον δείξον με, ζωής της αιωνίου

fleem
WWW
« Reply #99 on: February 13, 2013, 06:23:41 PM »

The golden rule came from Confucias; not the Jews...

"That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn." -- Rabbi Hillel
Logged

Charlie Rose: If you could change one thing about the world, what would it be?

Fran Lebowitz: Everything. There is not one thing with which I am satisfied.

http://spcasuncoast.org/
Romaios
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Romanian
Posts: 2,933



« Reply #100 on: February 13, 2013, 06:58:38 PM »

The golden rule came from Confucias; not the Jews...

"That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn." -- Rabbi Hillel

Both Our Lord and Hillel were echoing Leviticus 19:18 ('thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord'), Deuteronomy 22 and many other such places in the Torah.
Logged
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 12,808


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #101 on: February 13, 2013, 07:22:38 PM »

The golden rule came from Confucias; not the Jews...

No doubt but it was taught by Hillel and then Jesus.
Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
Charles Martel
Traditional Roman Catholic
Moderated
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic
Jurisdiction: New york
Posts: 3,146


« Reply #102 on: February 13, 2013, 07:29:01 PM »

Jesus was a Judean.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6A2HQNeO104&list=UUqqN2e5-zgkQhHOs-ailqBQ
Logged

Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.
rakovsky
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Posts: 4,286



WWW
« Reply #103 on: February 14, 2013, 12:50:25 AM »

The golden rule came from Confucias; not the Jews...

No doubt but it was taught by Hillel and then Jesus.
One difference is that Hillel's idea was that you should NOT do to others what you DON'T want them to do to you - a prohibition.

Jesus, however, made an active instruction, that you should do to others as you wish them to do to you.

This may make an interesting contrast between the OT Laws, which were typically proscriptive (don't work on the Sabbath), and New Testament ones, which were fulfillments and went farther (do good work on the Sabbath).

This would be another example showing how Jesus was significantly different from being a student of Rabbi Hillel.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2013, 12:52:21 AM by rakovsky » Logged
Shanghaiski
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,970


Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #104 on: February 14, 2013, 01:02:35 AM »

The golden rule came from Confucias; not the Jews...

"That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn." -- Rabbi Hillel

Otherwise known in China as Hillel-tzu.
Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 12,808


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #105 on: February 15, 2013, 12:01:18 AM »

The golden rule came from Confucias; not the Jews...

No doubt but it was taught by Hillel and then Jesus.
One difference is that Hillel's idea was that you should NOT do to others what you DON'T want them to do to you - a prohibition.

Jesus, however, made an active instruction, that you should do to others as you wish them to do to you.

This may make an interesting contrast between the OT Laws, which were typically proscriptive (don't work on the Sabbath), and New Testament ones, which were fulfillments and went farther (do good work on the Sabbath).

This would be another example showing how Jesus was significantly different from being a student of Rabbi Hillel.

Straw man.. I never said Jesus was a student of Hillel. This is the second time I have pointed this out to you. Why must you continually
miss represent me?

The assertion was that Jesus did not practice the Jewish religion.

My reply was that the teachings of Jesus are very similar to the teachings of Rabbi Hillel. Both taught a "Golden Rule" philosophy.

Let me know if this is still confusing.
Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
biro
Excelsior
Site Supporter
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox
Posts: 13,419


Και κλήρονομον δείξον με, ζωής της αιωνίου

fleem
WWW
« Reply #106 on: February 15, 2013, 12:46:31 AM »

There was a song, I think by the Exploited, that went, "Was Jesus Catholic or Protestant, was Jesus Catholic or Protestant?! He's a Jew!"

Thread's over, we can all go home now.
Logged

Charlie Rose: If you could change one thing about the world, what would it be?

Fran Lebowitz: Everything. There is not one thing with which I am satisfied.

http://spcasuncoast.org/
rakovsky
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Posts: 4,286



WWW
« Reply #107 on: February 15, 2013, 01:16:15 AM »

There was a song, I think by the Exploited, that went, "Was Jesus Catholic or Protestant, was Jesus Catholic or Protestant?!"
He is catholic.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2013, 01:25:09 AM by rakovsky » Logged
Pericles
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople. Archdiocese of Thyateira & Great Britain.
Posts: 178



WWW
« Reply #108 on: February 18, 2013, 08:50:47 AM »

"Salvation is from the Jews." - Jesus Christ (John 4:22)
You (Jews) belong to your father, the devil! Jesus Christ john 8:44
Logged

Graecia capta ferum victorem cepit.
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Online Online

Posts: 29,825



« Reply #109 on: February 18, 2013, 08:55:36 AM »

"Salvation is from the Jews." - Jesus Christ (John 4:22)
You (Jews) belong to your father, the devil! Jesus Christ john 8:44

This is where we could use a fancy-pants word like eisegesis...
Logged

Yes, yes, youth is wasted on the young. And so is accumulated experience wasted on the old, the positives of modernism wasted on moderns, the beauty of Christianity wasted on Christians, the utility of scholarship wasted on scholars, and on and on.
Theophilos78
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: pro-Israeli Zionist Apostolic Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Adonai Yeshua
Posts: 2,043



« Reply #110 on: February 18, 2013, 08:57:41 AM »

"Salvation is from the Jews." - Jesus Christ (John 4:22)
You (Jews) belong to your father, the devil! Jesus Christ john 8:44

If we put these two statements together and believe in your claim that Jesus identified all Jews as seed of Satan, we can but conclude that "Salvation is from Satan".  Roll Eyes
Logged

Longing for Heavenly Jerusalem
Pericles
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople. Archdiocese of Thyateira & Great Britain.
Posts: 178



WWW
« Reply #111 on: February 18, 2013, 10:13:10 AM »

...we can but conclude that "Salvation is from Satan".  Roll Eyes
Thats the logical concusion you appear to be promoting and I'm arguing against.
Logged

Graecia capta ferum victorem cepit.
Romaios
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Romanian
Posts: 2,933



« Reply #112 on: February 18, 2013, 10:29:39 AM »

"Salvation is from the Jews." - Jesus Christ (John 4:22)
You (Jews) belong to your father, the devil! Jesus Christ john 8:44

You sure are fond of that verse. What Our Lord is arguing there is that those Jews were "sons of the devil", because they were fond of lies and Satan is "a liar and the father of lies". They were scandalized by his claims, but claimed themselves to be "sons of God", "children of Abraham", "free" and so on.

Beware of falling under its condemnation!

 
« Last Edit: February 18, 2013, 10:31:50 AM by Romaios » Logged
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 12,808


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #113 on: February 18, 2013, 11:16:47 AM »

...we can but conclude that "Salvation is from Satan".  Roll Eyes
Thats the logical concusion you appear to be promoting and I'm arguing against.


Famous Jews of that time

Mary Mother of God
St. Peter
St. Paul
St. James
St. John
Others
Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
mike
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,467


WWW
« Reply #114 on: February 18, 2013, 03:48:43 PM »

...we can but conclude that "Salvation is from Satan".  Roll Eyes
Thats the logical concusion you appear to be promoting and I'm arguing against.


Famous Jews of that time

Mary Mother of God
St. Peter
St. Paul
St. James
St. John
Others

You forgot one:

A Jew and young vicar were going by train. They were sitting vis-a-vis each other. Suddenly the Jew asked:
- When a vicar is promoted, who does he become?
- I may become the rector - the vicar responded.
- And then? - the Jew asks
- Then I may become a canon.
- And later?
- If I have outstanding service, I can become a bishop.
- What is further?
- By the will of the Holy Father I could become a cardinal.
- You mean the Pope, don't you? He governs the Church, does he?
- Yes, he governs everything.
 - That would be a promotion for a priest! What about going higher?
Vicar shakes his head:
- Going higher is impossible. I can not be the Lord!
- Why not? One of ours succeeded.
Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
J Michael
Older than dirt; dumber than a box of rocks; colossally ignorant; a little crazy ;-)
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 10,125


Lord, have mercy! I live under a rock. Alleluia!


« Reply #115 on: February 18, 2013, 04:00:06 PM »

...we can but conclude that "Salvation is from Satan".  Roll Eyes
Thats the logical concusion you appear to be promoting and I'm arguing against.


Famous Jews of that time

Mary Mother of God
St. Peter
St. Paul
St. James
St. John
Others

You forgot one:

A Jew and young vicar were going by train. They were sitting vis-a-vis each other. Suddenly the Jew asked:
- When a vicar is promoted, who does he become?
- I may become the rector - the vicar responded.
- And then? - the Jew asks
- Then I may become a canon.
- And later?
- If I have outstanding service, I can become a bishop.
- What is further?
- By the will of the Holy Father I could become a cardinal.
- You mean the Pope, don't you? He governs the Church, does he?
- Yes, he governs everything.
 - That would be a promotion for a priest! What about going higher?
Vicar shakes his head:
- Going higher is impossible. I can not be the Lord!
- Why not? One of ours succeeded.

That's always good for a big smile and a chuckle  Wink.
Logged

"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)
Theophilos78
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: pro-Israeli Zionist Apostolic Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Adonai Yeshua
Posts: 2,043



« Reply #116 on: February 18, 2013, 04:46:23 PM »

...we can but conclude that "Salvation is from Satan".  Roll Eyes
Thats the logical concusion you appear to be promoting and I'm arguing against.

Now resorting to distortion... Nothing surprising though. You cannot defend your non-Christian views without twisting the facts.  Grin
Logged

Longing for Heavenly Jerusalem
Charles Martel
Traditional Roman Catholic
Moderated
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic
Jurisdiction: New york
Posts: 3,146


« Reply #117 on: February 18, 2013, 08:44:52 PM »

"Salvation is from the Jews." - Jesus Christ (John 4:22)
You (Jews) belong to your father, the devil! Jesus Christ john 8:44

If we put these two statements together and believe in your claim that Jesus identified all Jews as seed of Satan, we can but conclude that "Salvation is from Satan".  Roll Eyes
I think he was referring to these Jews......"Behold, I will bring of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie. Behold, I will make them to come and adore before thy feet. And they shall know that I have loved thee. "-Revelation 3:9
Logged

Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.
rakovsky
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Posts: 4,286



WWW
« Reply #118 on: February 18, 2013, 09:58:06 PM »

- That would be a promotion for a priest! What about going higher?
Vicar shakes his head:
- Going higher is impossible. I can not be the Lord!
- Why not? One of ours succeeded.
Well, if we are going to talk that way, we might as well say that a Christian (believer in Christ) and a priest became the Lord.

In any case, this talk puts things on its head. In Christian thinking it is the Lord who became one of us (man), rather than the other way around.

Peace.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2013, 09:59:06 PM by rakovsky » Logged
Nadege
Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 93


« Reply #119 on: February 18, 2013, 10:41:00 PM »

Yes, he was, and he was an exemplary Jew.
Logged
rakovsky
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Posts: 4,286



WWW
« Reply #120 on: February 18, 2013, 11:39:43 PM »

Yes, he was, and he was the most exemplary Jew.
Fixed it.
Logged
Nicene
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek
Posts: 605


« Reply #121 on: February 19, 2013, 01:21:46 AM »

Its kind hard to ignore him being circumsised by his parents on the eighth day, being from the line of David...
Logged

Thank you.
Pericles
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople. Archdiocese of Thyateira & Great Britain.
Posts: 178



WWW
« Reply #122 on: February 19, 2013, 05:06:18 AM »

Beware of falling under its condemnation!
By not following your example, certainly!
Logged

Graecia capta ferum victorem cepit.
Romaios
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Romanian
Posts: 2,933



« Reply #123 on: February 19, 2013, 10:45:17 AM »

Beware of falling under its condemnation!
By not following your example, certainly!

By not becoming a phyletist like those Jews Our Lord called "sons of the devil".
« Last Edit: February 19, 2013, 11:11:23 AM by Romaios » Logged
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 12,808


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #124 on: February 19, 2013, 01:03:17 PM »

Yes, he was, and he was the most exemplary person.

Fixed it

Fixed it some more
« Last Edit: February 19, 2013, 01:04:00 PM by Marc1152 » Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
Charles Martel
Traditional Roman Catholic
Moderated
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic
Jurisdiction: New york
Posts: 3,146


« Reply #125 on: February 19, 2013, 09:05:48 PM »

Yes, he was, and he was an exemplary Jew.
Of his time maybe.

Jews today totally reject Christ, therfore the "exemplary" Jew today would have nothing to do with Jesus.

Except blaspheme him.
Logged

Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.
biro
Excelsior
Site Supporter
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox
Posts: 13,419


Και κλήρονομον δείξον με, ζωής της αιωνίου

fleem
WWW
« Reply #126 on: February 19, 2013, 09:17:15 PM »

Now, now.

I know we all cherish our pet assumptions, but there probably are quite a few Jews today who don't go around saying blasphemy about Christ.

For that matter, Buddhist and Hindus don't accept Christ, at least not the way Christians do, but do you ever see anybody go around ranting about how the Buddhist and the Hindus control everything? And there are billions of them, but only a few million Jews.

I mean, India and China put together, just them, equal 1/3 of the world's population.

I'm just saying.  Tongue
Logged

Charlie Rose: If you could change one thing about the world, what would it be?

Fran Lebowitz: Everything. There is not one thing with which I am satisfied.

http://spcasuncoast.org/
J Michael
Older than dirt; dumber than a box of rocks; colossally ignorant; a little crazy ;-)
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 10,125


Lord, have mercy! I live under a rock. Alleluia!


« Reply #127 on: February 20, 2013, 10:05:08 AM »

Now, now.

I know we all cherish our pet assumptions, but there probably are quite a few Jews today who don't go around saying blasphemy about Christ.

For that matter, Buddhist and Hindus don't accept Christ, at least not the way Christians do, but do you ever see anybody go around ranting about how the Buddhist and the Hindus control everything? And there are billions of them, but only a few million Jews.

I mean, India and China put together, just them, equal 1/3 of the world's population.

I'm just saying.  Tongue

Uh oh...(said the Jew who's a Christian who doesn't control a damn thing)  Wink
« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 10:06:14 AM by J Michael » Logged

"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)
Charles Martel
Traditional Roman Catholic
Moderated
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic
Jurisdiction: New york
Posts: 3,146


« Reply #128 on: February 20, 2013, 05:56:03 PM »

Now, now.

I know we all cherish our pet assumptions, but there probably are quite a few Jews today who don't go around saying blasphemy about Christ.

For that matter, Buddhist and Hindus don't accept Christ, at least not the way Christians do, but do you ever see anybody go around ranting about how the Buddhist and the Hindus control everything? And there are billions of them, but only a few million Jews.

I mean, India and China put together, just them, equal 1/3 of the world's population.

I'm just saying.  Tongue
Buddhists and Hindus and even Moslems don't write nasty things to say about Christ and the BVM in their sacred texts like the Jewish Talmud and other Rabbinical commentaries.Also the other world's main religions aren't constantly pestering us about how we word our liturgies or conduct our services. As a matter of fact, the other main religions have nothing but good things to say about Christ, Islam even considers him a prophet and the BVM is one of the most honored women amongst all Moslems.

Judaism in essence despises Jesus as a fake and a fraud.

Jews ( and no not every single one, especially the converts) are the Church's oldest and most dangerous nemises.

To put it any other way would be a lie.

It's really a shame that even "orthodox" Christians don't get this, although I think many do but are too intimdated to admit it.

God hates a coward.
Logged

Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.
biro
Excelsior
Site Supporter
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox
Posts: 13,419


Και κλήρονομον δείξον με, ζωής της αιωνίου

fleem
WWW
« Reply #129 on: February 20, 2013, 06:05:03 PM »

What is it with this weird streak of anti-Judaism on the board? I'm not saying it's everybody, but heck, some weird things have been said of late, and it's getting boring and annoying. Like the time I sat on a beach chair that had a bee's nest under it. But that wasn't boring.

It's one thing to wish the Jews would convert, it's another to subscribe to long-dead theories about supercharged nationalistic nonsense. I mean, if you've ever actually read about Jewish history, all these crackpot theories wane and die when exposed to the light.

To say I'm disappointed would be a considerable understatement. Troubled about it, as well.  Tongue Angry
« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 06:05:47 PM by biro » Logged

Charlie Rose: If you could change one thing about the world, what would it be?

Fran Lebowitz: Everything. There is not one thing with which I am satisfied.

http://spcasuncoast.org/
Charles Martel
Traditional Roman Catholic
Moderated
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic
Jurisdiction: New york
Posts: 3,146


« Reply #130 on: February 20, 2013, 06:18:30 PM »

Yet you are silent about what Judaism says in it's Talmud blaspheming Christ and the BVM.

I think maybe you better go back and read more "Jewish history".

Yes I am "anti-Judaism" like I am anti-Islam.

Judaism rejects Christ like Islam denies Christ's divinity, there both anti-Christ.

I'm sorry if this is too much for you to handle.
Logged

Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.
Cyrillic
Merarches
***********
Online Online

Posts: 9,223


Ceci n'est pas une pipe


« Reply #131 on: February 20, 2013, 06:22:46 PM »

Yet you are silent about what Judaism says in it's Talmud blaspheming Christ and the BVM.

I've heard this accusation before but can you actually quote where the Talmud does all those horrible thing?
Logged

"But slay her he did not, for between dream and deed laws and practicalities remain"
-Willem Elschot, 'The Marriage'.
Romaios
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Romanian
Posts: 2,933



« Reply #132 on: February 20, 2013, 06:34:08 PM »

Jesus in the Talmud

Jesus (Yeshu[a]) was a common name among Jews back in the day of the Talmud, so it's not clear if Our Lord is meant in all passages where this name appears.

Jesus "ben Pandira/Panthera" is supposedly a corruption of Gk. parthenos = "virgin".
Logged
biro
Excelsior
Site Supporter
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox
Posts: 13,419


Και κλήρονομον δείξον με, ζωής της αιωνίου

fleem
WWW
« Reply #133 on: February 20, 2013, 06:36:21 PM »

Yet you are silent about what Judaism says in it's Talmud blaspheming Christ and the BVM.

I've heard this accusation before but can you actually quote where the Talmud does all those horrible thing?

He can't. He'll try to, but I'll head him off at the pass.

He's probably relying on 'Brother Nathanael's' quoted fabrications, which hark back to the well-known fraud, "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" - which claim that Jews say you should kill Christian babies, and other such crap. Since I've actually read the Talmud, and it doesn't say what Nathanael claims it says, he and everyone who believes him on that is a fraud.  

As I said before, I'm worried about the type of converts and supporters who seem to be attracted to Orthodoxy because of the fetishistic aspects they (falsely) attach to it - the chance to 'adopt yourself' into Eastern European culture, which gives them what they believe to be the right to pretend to be 'ancient warriors.' There's a big difference between admiring a culture and using it to think it shoehorns you back into the old tough white guy days. They can't deal with women voting and going to college and not being stuck in the kitchen. They can't deal with the fact that there is now plenty of competition for those six-figure jobs at General Motors. They can't deal with a lot of things. So they drift into a fantasy world. Orthodoxy isn't really a fantasy, nor is a majority anti-Jewish, but there's an element that crops up sometimes, and we do no good by pretending it's not a problem. Some people want to make things into what they don't have to be. Heck, I don't want to be anti-anybody.

Having grown up in a city that is over 25% Jewish, learned Hebrew in nursery school, and become a compulsory visitor of the library, I can't stand this kind of fear-mongering that arises now and then, where it's conspiracy this and conspiracy that, while most of the Jewish folks I knew turned out to be things like librarians, teachers, locksmiths... pretty darn normal. Gasp! Shock! And they never rejected Christ - they said rather nice things about Him.

I can't take it anymore. This anti-Semitic b.s. is driving me nuts. If that makes some people not like me, so be it. It's like having a wart on your foot. It won't kill you, but how much does anybody really like warts?
« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 06:37:51 PM by biro » Logged

Charlie Rose: If you could change one thing about the world, what would it be?

Fran Lebowitz: Everything. There is not one thing with which I am satisfied.

http://spcasuncoast.org/
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 12,808


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #134 on: February 20, 2013, 06:42:37 PM »

Now, now.

I know we all cherish our pet assumptions, but there probably are quite a few Jews today who don't go around saying blasphemy about Christ.

For that matter, Buddhist and Hindus don't accept Christ, at least not the way Christians do, but do you ever see anybody go around ranting about how the Buddhist and the Hindus control everything? And there are billions of them, but only a few million Jews.

I mean, India and China put together, just them, equal 1/3 of the world's population.

I'm just saying.  Tongue
Buddhists and Hindus and even Moslems don't write nasty things to say about Christ and the BVM in their sacred texts like the Jewish Talmud and other Rabbinical commentaries.Also the other world's main religions aren't constantly pestering us about how we word our liturgies or conduct our services. As a matter of fact, the other main religions have nothing but good things to say about Christ, Islam even considers him a prophet and the BVM is one of the most honored women amongst all Moslems.

Judaism in essence despises Jesus as a fake and a fraud.

Jews ( and no not every single one, especially the converts) are the Church's oldest and most dangerous nemises.

To put it any other way would be a lie.

It's really a shame that even "orthodox" Christians don't get this, although I think many do but are too intimdated to admit it.

God hates a coward.

If you go to a service in a Synagogue you wont hear a word spoken about Jesus or Christians. But if you go to one of our liturgies every tenth word is Jew.

Find a new hobby Charles.
Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
Tags: Nazarene 
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 »   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.143 seconds with 73 queries.