Author Topic: Was Christ really Jewish?  (Read 9096 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online ialmisry

  • There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 38,478
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #180 on: February 22, 2013, 01:08:12 PM »
By the time of Jesus the Tribal system had disappeared for all intents and purposes. In the Judea of his time there were two tribes left standing, Judah and Benjamin. The old territories and fiefdoms couldnt be re-booted after the return from Babylon.
They got Judah and Benjamin (along with Levy).  The Samaritans got their ancestors inheritance (until the Maccabbees).
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline rakovsky

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,107
  • St. Mstislav I
    • The Old Testament Prophecies of the Messiah's Resurrection and Orthodox Christianity's roots in the Holy Land
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #181 on: February 22, 2013, 01:13:43 PM »
I didn't know the Soviets were "christians"......
Alot of Americans don't.

However, as the Soviets were losing their ground in the beginning of the war, Stalin legalized the Church, brought the hierarchs back from exile, and reunited groups with the Patriarchal Church. (eg. the Renovationists) He knew how important faith was to the Soviet people.

Thus, in "1942, Met. Sergius called believers to donate to arming the tanks of Dmitry Donskoy", who was a medieval Russian prince


In 1945 Stalin met a delegation led by Patriarch Alexei I, and gave a high opinion of the Church's activity during the war, "witnessed by the Patriarch Aleksey's presence on the tribune of Lenin's Mausoleum during the Victory Parade on June 24, 1945 and somewhat later- awarding the Patriarch with the medal of the medal of Red Labor".


Here's an impressive photo:

Father F A Puzanov with his medal Partisan of the Great Patriotic War (WWII)

Finally, the strong growth of the Church in Gorbachev's era shows that the Soviet people were to a big extent religious even when their government was not.

Thus, if one claims that the Holocaust, done by occultist Nazis and their military (esp. the occultist SS) ruling over a largely Christian population was persecution by Christians against Jews, then one must admit that Christians saved the Jews and stopped the Holocaust: the Soviets rejected occultism and helped the Church during the war, and the Soviet people were largely Christian and encouraged by religion.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2013, 01:37:36 PM by rakovsky »

Offline rakovsky

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,107
  • St. Mstislav I
    • The Old Testament Prophecies of the Messiah's Resurrection and Orthodox Christianity's roots in the Holy Land
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #182 on: February 22, 2013, 01:32:59 PM »
But, in Palestine/Israel, mainly the threat is from the Israelis not the Muslims.

Yeah and the only reason the Palestinian Muslims haven't turned on the Palestinian Christians is because they hate Jews even more than they hate Christians. But I assure you that once/if they ever drive the Jews out of that region, they'll immediately turn their hate upon the Orthodox Christian minority and establish Shariah.
James R,

It's true that in some Muslim countries like Egypt there is discrimination against Christians. However, in Egypt as in other Mediterranean Middle Eastern countries from which many Israelis emigrated, leaving small minorities of Jews behind, they have not driven out the Christian population. In Egypt, the number of Christians grew from under a million in the early 20th century to about 8-11 million today

That has a lot to do with the country being occupied for the first half of the 20th century by Europeans, and the population of the country as a whole going from the 10 million in 1900 to the 91 million of today, in and out of Egypt (Egypt has a huge diaspora, another reason for the increased numbers of Christians-a lot of them are not now in Muslim lands).
Correct. However, each of those things could be said to a big extent about the Palestinian Christian population in the Holy Land. Yet unlike Christians in largely Muslim Egypt, Christians' numbers in the Holy Land under Israeli control have hardly increased to that extent. In Jerusalem their number is half of what it was in 1946.

Online ialmisry

  • There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 38,478
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #183 on: February 22, 2013, 01:55:12 PM »
I  forgot to add: He kept the Sabbath, and was given a Jewish burial (i.e. He wasn't cremated).
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Romaios

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,933
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #184 on: February 22, 2013, 03:08:42 PM »
That was sad and it was wrong. But the point is that its the other way around in modern-day "Israel". Just imagine what the Palestinian children have to go through if they have to go to a predominantly Jewish school, which usually doesn't happen because the schools are mostly segregated (like Jim Crow U.S. South). What the Ashkenazim went through during the Holocaust was horrible but in the modern-day, what the Palestinians have to go through is also horrible. The point is that history is repeating itself in the wrong way.

Avoda Aravit (Arab Work)
« Last Edit: February 22, 2013, 03:15:29 PM by Romaios »

Offline J Michael

  • Older than dirt; dumber than a box of rocks; colossally ignorant; a little crazy ;-)
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,437
  • Lord, have mercy! I live under a rock. Alleluia!
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #185 on: February 22, 2013, 04:14:02 PM »
That was sad and it was wrong. But the point is that its the other way around in modern-day "Israel". Just imagine what the Palestinian children have to go through if they have to go to a predominantly Jewish school, which usually doesn't happen because the schools are mostly segregated (like Jim Crow U.S. South). What the Ashkenazim went through during the Holocaust was horrible but in the modern-day, what the Palestinians have to go through is also horrible. The point is that history is repeating itself in the wrong way.

Avoda Aravit (Arab Work)

So....Christ really was Jewish then, right?  (No, I didn't view the video--no youtube access here.)
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline Romaios

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,933
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #186 on: February 22, 2013, 04:17:10 PM »
So....Christ really was Jewish then, right?  (No, I didn't view the video--no youtube access here.)

... and Muslim, of course.  ;)

Offline J Michael

  • Older than dirt; dumber than a box of rocks; colossally ignorant; a little crazy ;-)
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,437
  • Lord, have mercy! I live under a rock. Alleluia!
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #187 on: February 22, 2013, 04:47:47 PM »
So....Christ really was Jewish then, right?  (No, I didn't view the video--no youtube access here.)

... and Muslim, of course.  ;)

 ::)
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline Charles Martel

  • Traditional Roman Catholic
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,908
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #188 on: February 22, 2013, 05:41:00 PM »
I didn't know the Soviets were "christians"......
Alot of Americans don't.

However, as the Soviets were losing their ground in the beginning of the war, Stalin legalized the Church, brought the hierarchs back from exile, and reunited groups with the Patriarchal Church. (eg. the Renovationists) He knew how important faith was to the Soviet people.

Thus, in "1942, Met. Sergius called believers to donate to arming the tanks of Dmitry Donskoy", who was a medieval Russian prince


In 1945 Stalin met a delegation led by Patriarch Alexei I, and gave a high opinion of the Church's activity during the war, "witnessed by the Patriarch Aleksey's presence on the tribune of Lenin's Mausoleum during the Victory Parade on June 24, 1945 and somewhat later- awarding the Patriarch with the medal of the medal of Red Labor".


Here's an impressive photo:

Father F A Puzanov with his medal Partisan of the Great Patriotic War (WWII)

Finally, the strong growth of the Church in Gorbachev's era shows that the Soviet people were to a big extent religious even when their government was not.

Thus, if one claims that the Holocaust, done by occultist Nazis and their military (esp. the occultist SS) ruling over a largely Christian population was persecution by Christians against Jews, then one must admit that Christians saved the Jews and stopped the Holocaust: the Soviets rejected occultism and helped the Church during the war, and the Soviet people were largely Christian and encouraged by religion.
Interesting post. But don't forget the Axis had just as many Christians within their borders as well.

Germany and Italy are predominantly Catholic countries.

The U.S. and Britain were predominantly Protestant heretics.

Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline Marc1152

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,806
  • Probiotic .. Antibiotic
  • Jurisdiction: Rocor
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #189 on: February 22, 2013, 06:04:18 PM »
no, no, no.......why those angelic rabbi's would never say a foul word about Jesus or his mother while they're spitting why they walk by a Church or a crucifix.

It used to be a mitzva among some Christians to spit on a Jew on Good Friday.

It's the other way around every day in Jewish neighborhoods in Israel and the occupied parts of Occupied Territories.

I cant count the number of times I was spit on as a kid by "Christians".. Actually, the procedure was to spit on my shoe or right in front, so as not to get suspended from school. A spit in the face would mean a fist fight, so that was avoided.

The Jewish kids going to my Junior High had to sit together during lunch for safety. Every single day we would have pennies thrown at us. That was the other thing, kids would drop coins in front of us to see if we would stop to pick them up.

School prayer was a big opening for violence. The kid saying the morning prayer in class ( yes, I am that old) would pick the prayer. i somehow always avoided it but my friend Miriam was more Orthodox and would dutifully take her turn and say a prayer in Hebrew. She was bumped around in the halls afterwards and tormented in various creative ways.

She refused to sing Christmas Carols during the season, which at that time included very religious songs. I didnt care so much and sang but I remember her having to sit in a chair by herself way in the back of the auditorium during the daily rehearsals. She was isolated and picked on. To this day I regret not having the courage to join her.. Miriam was very brave... Same name as the Mother of God you will note

God forgives and I forgive.

That was sad and it was wrong. But the point is that its the other way around in modern-day "Israel". Just imagine what the Palestinian children have to go through if they have to go to a predominantly Jewish school, which usually doesn't happen because the schools are mostly segregated (like Jim Crow U.S. South). What the Ashkenazim went through during the Holocaust was horrible but in the modern-day, what the Palestinians have to go through is also horrible. The point is that history is repeating itself in the wrong way.

You paint a false picture.. The ultra Orthodox have been known to spit on Priests and Christian Clergy when they pass them in Public. The Ultra-Dox are a small minority and are disliked by the average Israeli.

That is nothing at all like the pernicious and ubiquitous Antisemitism found back in the day right here in the USA.  IMHO
Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Offline Charles Martel

  • Traditional Roman Catholic
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,908
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #190 on: February 22, 2013, 06:33:16 PM »
Quote
That is nothing at all like the pernicious and ubiquitous Antisemitism found back in the day right here in the USA.  IMHO

Really? Give some examples.
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Online ialmisry

  • There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 38,478
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #191 on: February 22, 2013, 06:34:29 PM »
Quote
That is nothing at all like the pernicious and ubiquitous Antisemitism found back in the day right here in the USA.  IMHO

Really? Give some examples.
While you are at it, tell us what a "shegetz"/"shiksa" means.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Cantor Krishnich

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 545
  • Mar Ahmed the Daftadar
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #192 on: February 22, 2013, 06:37:12 PM »
no, no, no.......why those angelic rabbi's would never say a foul word about Jesus or his mother while they're spitting why they walk by a Church or a crucifix.

It used to be a mitzva among some Christians to spit on a Jew on Good Friday.

It's the other way around every day in Jewish neighborhoods in Israel and the occupied parts of Occupied Territories.

I cant count the number of times I was spit on as a kid by "Christians".. Actually, the procedure was to spit on my shoe or right in front, so as not to get suspended from school. A spit in the face would mean a fist fight, so that was avoided.

The Jewish kids going to my Junior High had to sit together during lunch for safety. Every single day we would have pennies thrown at us. That was the other thing, kids would drop coins in front of us to see if we would stop to pick them up.

School prayer was a big opening for violence. The kid saying the morning prayer in class ( yes, I am that old) would pick the prayer. i somehow always avoided it but my friend Miriam was more Orthodox and would dutifully take her turn and say a prayer in Hebrew. She was bumped around in the halls afterwards and tormented in various creative ways.

She refused to sing Christmas Carols during the season, which at that time included very religious songs. I didnt care so much and sang but I remember her having to sit in a chair by herself way in the back of the auditorium during the daily rehearsals. She was isolated and picked on. To this day I regret not having the courage to join her.. Miriam was very brave... Same name as the Mother of God you will note

God forgives and I forgive.

That was sad and it was wrong. But the point is that its the other way around in modern-day "Israel". Just imagine what the Palestinian children have to go through if they have to go to a predominantly Jewish school, which usually doesn't happen because the schools are mostly segregated (like Jim Crow U.S. South). What the Ashkenazim went through during the Holocaust was horrible but in the modern-day, what the Palestinians have to go through is also horrible. The point is that history is repeating itself in the wrong way.

You paint a false picture.. The ultra Orthodox have been known to spit on Priests and Christian Clergy when they pass them in Public. The Ultra-Dox are a small minority and are disliked by the average Israeli.

That is nothing at all like the pernicious and ubiquitous Antisemitism found back in the day right here in the USA.  IMHO

The Ultra-Orthodox Haredim are known to attack Christians, I know they are a small minority but the IDF loves to harass Palestinians just like how you described the racist schoolchildren harassing you. The only difference is that lives are being lost in great numbers, land is being stolen, and the present-day harassers are so-called "adults".  
Most Holy Theotokos, Save Us!
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, Have Mercy Upon Me a Sinner!

Offline biro

  • Excelsior
  • Site Supporter
  • Hoplitarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,838
  • Leave me alone, I was only singing
    • Alaska Volcanoes
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: GOAA
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #193 on: February 22, 2013, 06:40:24 PM »
A shiksa is a Gentile woman. Never really thought it was anything sinister. Then again, folks on this board do like to take things more seriously than they have to, now and then....  ::)
He will come again with glory to judge the living and the dead. His kingdom will have no end.

--

And if I seem a little strange, well, that's because I am

Offline Orthodox11

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,999
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #194 on: February 22, 2013, 06:45:13 PM »
A shiksa is a Gentile woman. Never really thought it was anything sinister. Then again, folks on this board do like to take things more seriously than they have to, now and then....  ::)

Perhaps the fact that the word is derived from the Hebrew שקץ, meaning impure/abominable, is a reason some don't take too kindly to its use :)

Offline James2

  • Mr.
  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 753
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #195 on: February 22, 2013, 06:48:04 PM »
Interesting post. But don't forget the Axis had just as many Christians within their borders as well.

Germany and Italy are predominantly Catholic countries.

The U.S. and Britain were predominantly Protestant heretics.



Three cheers for the heretics!

Offline Cantor Krishnich

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 545
  • Mar Ahmed the Daftadar
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #196 on: February 22, 2013, 06:51:45 PM »
I didn't know the Soviets were "christians"......
Alot of Americans don't.

However, as the Soviets were losing their ground in the beginning of the war, Stalin legalized the Church, brought the hierarchs back from exile, and reunited groups with the Patriarchal Church. (eg. the Renovationists) He knew how important faith was to the Soviet people.

Thus, in "1942, Met. Sergius called believers to donate to arming the tanks of Dmitry Donskoy", who was a medieval Russian prince


In 1945 Stalin met a delegation led by Patriarch Alexei I, and gave a high opinion of the Church's activity during the war, "witnessed by the Patriarch Aleksey's presence on the tribune of Lenin's Mausoleum during the Victory Parade on June 24, 1945 and somewhat later- awarding the Patriarch with the medal of the medal of Red Labor".


Here's an impressive photo:

Father F A Puzanov with his medal Partisan of the Great Patriotic War (WWII)

Finally, the strong growth of the Church in Gorbachev's era shows that the Soviet people were to a big extent religious even when their government was not.

Thus, if one claims that the Holocaust, done by occultist Nazis and their military (esp. the occultist SS) ruling over a largely Christian population was persecution by Christians against Jews, then one must admit that Christians saved the Jews and stopped the Holocaust: the Soviets rejected occultism and helped the Church during the war, and the Soviet people were largely Christian and encouraged by religion.
Interesting post. But don't forget the Axis had just as many Christians within their borders as well.

Germany and Italy are predominantly Catholic countries.

The U.S. and Britain were predominantly Protestant heretics.



Pot is calling the kettle black, aren't Catholics heretics according to Orthodox standards  ;)
Most Holy Theotokos, Save Us!
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, Have Mercy Upon Me a Sinner!

Offline Charles Martel

  • Traditional Roman Catholic
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,908
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #197 on: February 22, 2013, 08:21:58 PM »
I didn't know the Soviets were "christians"......
Alot of Americans don't.

However, as the Soviets were losing their ground in the beginning of the war, Stalin legalized the Church, brought the hierarchs back from exile, and reunited groups with the Patriarchal Church. (eg. the Renovationists) He knew how important faith was to the Soviet people.

Thus, in "1942, Met. Sergius called believers to donate to arming the tanks of Dmitry Donskoy", who was a medieval Russian prince


In 1945 Stalin met a delegation led by Patriarch Alexei I, and gave a high opinion of the Church's activity during the war, "witnessed by the Patriarch Aleksey's presence on the tribune of Lenin's Mausoleum during the Victory Parade on June 24, 1945 and somewhat later- awarding the Patriarch with the medal of the medal of Red Labor".


Here's an impressive photo:

Father F A Puzanov with his medal Partisan of the Great Patriotic War (WWII)

Finally, the strong growth of the Church in Gorbachev's era shows that the Soviet people were to a big extent religious even when their government was not.

Thus, if one claims that the Holocaust, done by occultist Nazis and their military (esp. the occultist SS) ruling over a largely Christian population was persecution by Christians against Jews, then one must admit that Christians saved the Jews and stopped the Holocaust: the Soviets rejected occultism and helped the Church during the war, and the Soviet people were largely Christian and encouraged by religion.
Interesting post. But don't forget the Axis had just as many Christians within their borders as well.

Germany and Italy are predominantly Catholic countries.

The U.S. and Britain were predominantly Protestant heretics.



Pot is calling the kettle black, aren't Catholics heretics according to Orthodox standards  ;)
Well now, a schismatic calling me a heretic.

Talk about the black calling the kettle pot.  ;D
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline rakovsky

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,107
  • St. Mstislav I
    • The Old Testament Prophecies of the Messiah's Resurrection and Orthodox Christianity's roots in the Holy Land
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #198 on: February 22, 2013, 08:22:47 PM »
A shiksa is a Gentile woman. Never really thought it was anything sinister. Then again, folks on this board do like to take things more seriously than they have to, now and then....  ::)

Quote
Derivation

The word shiksa is etymologically partly derived from the Hebrew term שקץ, sheketz, which means "abomination", "impure," or "object of loathing", depending on the translator.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiksa

Offline Charles Martel

  • Traditional Roman Catholic
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,908
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #199 on: February 22, 2013, 08:23:40 PM »
A shiksa is a Gentile woman. Never really thought it was anything sinister. Then again, folks on this board do like to take things more seriously than they have to, now and then....  ::)

Perhaps the fact that the word is derived from the Hebrew שקץ, meaning impure/abominable, is a reason some don't take too kindly to its use :)
Sooo.......biro, do you still consider yourself a shiksa?  ;)
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline Marc1152

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,806
  • Probiotic .. Antibiotic
  • Jurisdiction: Rocor
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #200 on: February 23, 2013, 12:50:39 AM »
Quote
That is nothing at all like the pernicious and ubiquitous Antisemitism found back in the day right here in the USA.  IMHO

Really? Give some examples.
While you are at it, tell us what a "shegetz"/"shiksa" means.

they are derogatory terms. Much like Kike or Heeb.

"Shiksa's are for practice"

Are you shocked?
Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Online ialmisry

  • There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 38,478
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #201 on: February 23, 2013, 02:09:57 AM »
Quote
That is nothing at all like the pernicious and ubiquitous Antisemitism found back in the day right here in the USA.  IMHO

Really? Give some examples.
While you are at it, tell us what a "shegetz"/"shiksa" means.

they are derogatory terms. Much like Kike or Heeb.

"Shiksa's are for practice"

Are you shocked?
No, but the goyim might.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Marc1152

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,806
  • Probiotic .. Antibiotic
  • Jurisdiction: Rocor
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #202 on: February 23, 2013, 12:49:57 PM »
Quote
That is nothing at all like the pernicious and ubiquitous Antisemitism found back in the day right here in the USA.  IMHO

Really? Give some examples.
While you are at it, tell us what a "shegetz"/"shiksa" means.

they are derogatory terms. Much like Kike or Heeb.

"Shiksa's are for practice"

Are you shocked?
No, but the goyim might.

Yup... I understand that.

I think every ethnic group has pejorative terms for people outside their own group. Perhaps I'm wrong and it's really only Jews who have these kind of terms. What do you think?
Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Online ialmisry

  • There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 38,478
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #203 on: February 23, 2013, 01:03:34 PM »
Quote
That is nothing at all like the pernicious and ubiquitous Antisemitism found back in the day right here in the USA.  IMHO

Really? Give some examples.
While you are at it, tell us what a "shegetz"/"shiksa" means.

they are derogatory terms. Much like Kike or Heeb.

"Shiksa's are for practice"

Are you shocked?
No, but the goyim might.

Yup... I understand that.

I think every ethnic group has pejorative terms for people outside their own group. Perhaps I'm wrong and it's really only Jews who have these kind of terms. What do you think?
It seems the Jews are the only ones surprised when the people outside their own group are offended.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Shanghaiski

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,978
  • Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #204 on: February 23, 2013, 09:34:07 PM »
I love threads like this. Members of X group do something wrong. Someone mentions it. Another person chimes in saying that Christians have done something worse. People fantasize it will end like "Casablanca," but it'll probably be closer to "Hamlet."
Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Offline Kerdy

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,802
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #205 on: February 24, 2013, 03:04:48 AM »
Are we still discussing this?  Of course Jesus was Jewish.  The first Christians were the Apostles.

Offline psalm110

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 369
  • Orthodox Christian
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #206 on: February 24, 2013, 04:52:21 AM »
Are we still discussing this?  Of course Jesus was Jewish.  The first Christians were the Apostles.

+1


Offline Charles Martel

  • Traditional Roman Catholic
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,908
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #207 on: February 24, 2013, 06:37:18 AM »
Are we still discussing this?  Of course Jesus was Jewish.  The first Catholic Christians were the Apostles.
Fixed it for you. ;D
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline Kerdy

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,802
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #208 on: February 24, 2013, 07:02:47 AM »
Are we still discussing this?  Of course Jesus was Jewish.  The first Orthodox Christians were the Apostles.
Fixed it for you. ;D

Thanks, buddy! :D

Offline Marc1152

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,806
  • Probiotic .. Antibiotic
  • Jurisdiction: Rocor
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #209 on: February 24, 2013, 05:43:22 PM »
Quote
That is nothing at all like the pernicious and ubiquitous Antisemitism found back in the day right here in the USA.  IMHO

Really? Give some examples.
While you are at it, tell us what a "shegetz"/"shiksa" means.

they are derogatory terms. Much like Kike or Heeb.

"Shiksa's are for practice"

Are you shocked?
No, but the goyim might.

Yup... I understand that.

I think every ethnic group has pejorative terms for people outside their own group. Perhaps I'm wrong and it's really only Jews who have these kind of terms. What do you think?
It seems the Jews are the only ones surprised when the people outside their own group are offended.

Because the terms  are used with such a lite touch and also because Jews are bashed with so many offensive terms themselves.
Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Offline Marc1152

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,806
  • Probiotic .. Antibiotic
  • Jurisdiction: Rocor
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #210 on: February 24, 2013, 05:49:03 PM »
Are we still discussing this?  Of course Jesus was Jewish.  The first Catholic Christians were the Apostles.
Fixed it for you. ;D

Who had to call a council to discuss how Gentiles could  become Christians and how they would be accepted as such. For example they had to debate weather or not they had to first be  ritually circumcised..


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Jerusalem
The Council of Jerusalem (or Apostolic Conference) is a name applied by historians and theologians to an Early Christian council that was held in Jerusalem and dated to around the year 50. It is considered by Catholics and Orthodox to be a prototype and forerunner of the later Ecumenical Councils and a key part of Christian ethics. The council decided that Gentile converts to Christianity were not obligated to keep most of the Mosaic law, including the rules concerning circumcision of males. The Council did, however, retain the prohibitions on eating blood, meat containing blood, and meat of animals not properly slain, and on fornication and idolatry. Descriptions of the council are found in Acts of the Apostles chapter 15 (in two different forms, the Alexandrian and Western versions) and also possibly in Paul's letter to the Galatians chapter 2.
Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Offline orthonorm

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,162
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #211 on: February 24, 2013, 06:01:06 PM »
I love threads like this. Members of X group do something wrong. Someone mentions it. Another person chimes in saying that Christians have done something worse. People fantasize it will end like "Casablanca," but it'll probably be closer to "Hamlet."

Another brilliant post.
Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.

Offline Cantor Krishnich

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 545
  • Mar Ahmed the Daftadar
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #212 on: February 24, 2013, 09:06:42 PM »
Yes he was Jewish. This was a requirement for the Messiah. We should definitely know this.

Mathew 1: 1-25 (The Genealogy and Birth of Christ)
1 The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham:2 Abraham begot Isaac, Isaac begot Jacob, and Jacob begot Judah and his brothers. 3 Judah begot Perez and Zerah by Tamar, Perez begot Hezron, and Hezron begot Ram. 4 Ram begot Amminadab, Amminadab begot Nahshon, and Nahshon begot Salmon. 5 Salmon begot Boaz by Rahab, Boaz begot Obed by Ruth, Obed begot Jesse, 6 and Jesse begot David the king. David the king begot Solomon by her who had been the wife[a] of Uriah. 7 Solomon begot Rehoboam, Rehoboam begot Abijah, and Abijah begot Asa. 8 Asa begot Jehoshaphat, Jehoshaphat begot Joram, and Joram begot Uzziah. 9 Uzziah begot Jotham, Jotham begot Ahaz, and Ahaz begot Hezekiah. 10 Hezekiah begot Manasseh, Manasseh begot Amon,[c] and Amon begot Josiah. 11 Josiah begot Jeconiah and his brothers about the time they were carried away to Babylon. 12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jeconiah begot Shealtiel, and Shealtiel begot Zerubbabel. 13 Zerubbabel begot Abiud, Abiud begot Eliakim, and Eliakim begot Azor. 14 Azor begot Zadok, Zadok begot Achim, and Achim begot Eliud. 15 Eliud begot Eleazar, Eleazar begot Matthan, and Matthan begot Jacob. 16 And Jacob begot Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus who is called Christ. 17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations, from David until the captivity in Babylon are fourteen generations, and from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen generations. 18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit. 19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not wanting to make her a public example, was minded to put her away secretly. 20 But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”
22 So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying: 23 “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.” 24 Then Joseph, being aroused from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord commanded him and took to him his wife, 25 and did not know her till she had brought forth her firstborn Son.[d] And he called His name Jesus.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2013, 09:07:25 PM by Cantor Krishnich »
Most Holy Theotokos, Save Us!
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, Have Mercy Upon Me a Sinner!

Offline Pericles

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 178
    • Ecumenical Patriarchate
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #213 on: February 25, 2013, 09:17:35 AM »
Yes he was Jewish.
Nope! According to  the geneology you provide from Mathew, Jesus is descended from Abraham through Joseph's line and as I understand the genetic input Joseph contributed was zero, nothing, zilch or in other words a big-fat-nothing ;D
Graecia capta ferum victorem cepit.

Offline jmbejdl

  • Count-Palatine James the Spurious of Giggleswick on the Naze
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,480
  • Great Martyr St. John the New of Suceava
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #214 on: February 25, 2013, 09:30:11 AM »
Germany and Italy are predominantly Catholic countries.

The U.S. and Britain were predominantly Protestant heretics.


Italy is predominantly Catholic - Germany is not. The north is predominantly Protestant and the south Catholic and the last time I looked, the Christian population of Germany was split pretty much evenly between the two.

James
We owe greater gratitude to those who humble us, wrong us, and douse us with venom, than to those who nurse us with honour and sweet words, or feed us with tasty food and confections, for bile is the best medicine for our soul. - Elder Paisios of Mount Athos

Offline LBK

  • No Reporting Allowed
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,247
  • Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!
  • Faith: Orthodox
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #215 on: February 25, 2013, 07:05:13 PM »
Yes he was Jewish.
Nope! According to  the geneology you provide from Mathew, Jesus is descended from Abraham through Joseph's line and as I understand the genetic input Joseph contributed was zero, nothing, zilch or in other words a big-fat-nothing ;D

Nonsense. Christ was circumcised at eight days, was presented to the Temple at 40 days. Both were requirements of Jewish law. Circumcision was the prefiguration of Christian baptism. As others have pointed out, he read the scriptures in the Temple, and taught there. All three of these are commemorated as feasts of the Orthodox Church in hymns and icons: The Circumcision of the Lord, the Meeting of the Lord, and Mid-Pentecost.

Your insistence in claiming He wasn't Jewish is simply ridiculous.
No longer posting here. Anyone is welcome to email me at the address in my profile.

Offline Charles Martel

  • Traditional Roman Catholic
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,908
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #216 on: February 27, 2013, 03:40:55 PM »
Germany and Italy are predominantly Catholic countries.

The U.S. and Britain were predominantly Protestant heretics.


Italy is predominantly Catholic - Germany is not. The north is predominantly Protestant and the south Catholic and the last time I looked, the Christian population of Germany was split pretty much evenly between the two.

James
Nevertheless, Hitler and most of the top Nazis were Catholic.......I don't believe they were ever officially excommunicated.

The Vatican even signed a Concordat (treaty) with the German Reich to maintain friendly relations.

Unlike the anti-Catholic Freemasonic Prots that ran the govts of Britan and the U.S. during WWII.
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline Charles Martel

  • Traditional Roman Catholic
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 3,908
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #217 on: February 27, 2013, 03:43:31 PM »
Yes he was Jewish.
Nope! According to  the geneology you provide from Mathew, Jesus is descended from Abraham through Joseph's line and as I understand the genetic input Joseph contributed was zero, nothing, zilch or in other words a big-fat-nothing ;D

Nonsense. Christ was circumcised at eight days, was presented to the Temple at 40 days. Both were requirements of Jewish law. Circumcision was the prefiguration of Christian baptism. As others have pointed out, he read the scriptures in the Temple, and taught there. All three of these are commemorated as feasts of the Orthodox Church in hymns and icons: The Circumcision of the Lord, the Meeting of the Lord, and Mid-Pentecost.

Your insistence in claiming He wasn't Jewish is simply ridiculous.
Not if you're referring to the post-temple, Talmudic Judaism of today, no. He isn't and never was "jewish" in that sense.
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline mike

  • The Jerk
  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,078
  • Scarecrow is watching you
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Makurian Orthodox
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #218 on: February 27, 2013, 03:44:18 PM »
The Vatican even signed a Concordat (treaty) with the German Reich to maintain friendly relations.

With Russia, and Romania too. Your point?

Offline JamesRottnek

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,123
  • I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #219 on: February 27, 2013, 03:54:19 PM »
Yes he was Jewish.
Nope! According to  the geneology you provide from Mathew, Jesus is descended from Abraham through Joseph's line and as I understand the genetic input Joseph contributed was zero, nothing, zilch or in other words a big-fat-nothing ;D

Nonsense. Christ was circumcised at eight days, was presented to the Temple at 40 days. Both were requirements of Jewish law. Circumcision was the prefiguration of Christian baptism. As others have pointed out, he read the scriptures in the Temple, and taught there. All three of these are commemorated as feasts of the Orthodox Church in hymns and icons: The Circumcision of the Lord, the Meeting of the Lord, and Mid-Pentecost.

Your insistence in claiming He wasn't Jewish is simply ridiculous.
Not if you're referring to the post-temple, Talmudic Judaism of today, no. He isn't and never was "jewish" in that sense.

Well obviously He wasn't a post-temple Jew, He had already ascended to the Father's right-hand by the time the temple was destroyed.

However, there is enough evidence to reasonably believe Christ was within the realm of Pharisaic Judaism, such as the nearly identical responses given by Hillel when asked to teach all of the law while standing on one foot and Christ when asked about the greatest commandment.
I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011

Offline Romaios

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,933
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #220 on: February 27, 2013, 04:04:07 PM »
Not if you're referring to the post-temple, Talmudic Judaism of today, no. He isn't and never was "jewish" in that sense.

There were different strands of Judaism back in his day, just as there are now, if hairs need to be split. Nevertheless, there was a common Jewish (ethnic and religious) identity in which Our Lord fully participated.

There's a "branch theory" on Judaism and Christianity that St. Paul puts forward in Romans 11. Good luck explaining that away!

Offline Marc1152

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,806
  • Probiotic .. Antibiotic
  • Jurisdiction: Rocor
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #221 on: February 27, 2013, 04:04:36 PM »
Yes he was Jewish.
Nope! According to  the geneology you provide from Mathew, Jesus is descended from Abraham through Joseph's line and as I understand the genetic input Joseph contributed was zero, nothing, zilch or in other words a big-fat-nothing ;D

Hebrews 7: 14

 "For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda"
Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Offline Marc1152

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,806
  • Probiotic .. Antibiotic
  • Jurisdiction: Rocor
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #222 on: February 27, 2013, 04:08:07 PM »
Yes he was Jewish.
Nope! According to  the geneology you provide from Mathew, Jesus is descended from Abraham through Joseph's line and as I understand the genetic input Joseph contributed was zero, nothing, zilch or in other words a big-fat-nothing ;D

Nonsense. Christ was circumcised at eight days, was presented to the Temple at 40 days. Both were requirements of Jewish law. Circumcision was the prefiguration of Christian baptism. As others have pointed out, he read the scriptures in the Temple, and taught there. All three of these are commemorated as feasts of the Orthodox Church in hymns and icons: The Circumcision of the Lord, the Meeting of the Lord, and Mid-Pentecost.

Your insistence in claiming He wasn't Jewish is simply ridiculous.
Not if you're referring to the post-temple, Talmudic Judaism of today, no. He isn't and never was "jewish" in that sense.

Specious.... The "Post Temple Talmudic Judaism" you sneer at is actually a closer  reflection of the school of Rabbi Hillel which the Lord himself taught.
Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Offline rakovsky

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 5,107
  • St. Mstislav I
    • The Old Testament Prophecies of the Messiah's Resurrection and Orthodox Christianity's roots in the Holy Land
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #223 on: February 27, 2013, 04:20:22 PM »
The "Post Temple Talmudic Judaism" is actually a closer  reflection of the school of Rabbi Hillel which the Lord himself taught.
Again, I doubt it can be said that Jesus "taught the School of Rabbi Hillel", although he shared important features of that school.

Quote
his strict teaching on divorce (Matthew 5:32) places him on Shammai's side, since Hillel allowed divorce if a husband was in any way displeased with his wife.

After Jesus' death, his early followers, too, seemed to fall into both camps [the schools of Shammai and Hillel].

https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Shammai
« Last Edit: February 27, 2013, 04:25:47 PM by rakovsky »

Offline Marc1152

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,806
  • Probiotic .. Antibiotic
  • Jurisdiction: Rocor
Re: Was Christ really Jewish?
« Reply #224 on: February 27, 2013, 05:09:26 PM »
The "Post Temple Talmudic Judaism" is actually a closer  reflection of the school of Rabbi Hillel which the Lord himself taught.
Again, I doubt it can be said that Jesus "taught the School of Rabbi Hillel", although he shared important features of that school.

Quote
his strict teaching on divorce (Matthew 5:32) places him on Shammai's side, since Hillel allowed divorce if a husband was in any way displeased with his wife.

After Jesus' death, his early followers, too, seemed to fall into both camps [the schools of Shammai and Hillel].

https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Shammai

Hillel taught a Golden Rule Philosophy and so did Jesus. The Shammai school was dominant BEFORE the fall of Jerusalem ( Temple) and I am sure remained influential just after. I am also sure that this sort of "following the letter of the Law and not the Spirit" remains until today, depending on which branch of Judaism you are looking at.

But the Shammai tendency existed in it's full strength BEFORE the Temple was destroyed ( along with several other sects that are now non existent). AFTER the Temple fell, Judaism took on more and more of this Golden Rule type of philosophy, not less.

In fact, the Karaites arose AFTER the fall of the Temple who do not follow the Talmud at all. They consider themselves to be in some philosophical kinship with Jesus ( it's beneficial to read some of their stuff on-line).

SO..To say the trend within Judaism AFTER the fall of the Temple was more corrupt or less like the teachings of Jesus is to stand the Truth on it's head. The opposite is the case.
Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm